Scientology: Greg & Debra Barnes

so hi my name is Greg Barnes this is my wife Debra hi and I was in the Church of Scientology for 20 years and my wife was for 19 years I reached the level of ot7 there was in level four seven years ot7 my patron the IAS Deborah was on a roll we were on ot7 we moved down to Clearwater from Dallas Texas with our nine-year-old son move our business down here business was expanding doing nicely still is expanding and doing nicely and we came upon this reference one of our friends Virginia McGladrey and ot7 from Idaho came down and showed us this LRH reference I had been off the level because when golden age' tech came out I didn't like the fact that here's the second time they wanted me to redo an OT level and I didn't care for that so I actually left the level in 96 wanting to just watch see what's going to happen but I wasn't getting back on the level because it was a redo and I didn't understand why it wasn't right the first time so anyway so that was in 96 in 98 Virginia showed me a reference the reference is called cs3070 3rb and it is in your tech balance in your Greenville also this particular reference talks about whether or not sex should be done when you're on ot7 and when they should be done and when they shouldn't be done that's exactly what this reference says and it gives it also gives all the instances of when you would set check somebody and when you shouldn't I know t7 so there's two sides to the sex checking thing so anyway so after I read this I knew why I didn't want to be on seven anymore it's because of those sex acts so anyway Virginia was making a stand on this she was on a six month check she was taking a position that they weren't following this reference and the Sandcastle them began inquiring with her how many people know well Virginia told the MAA her name was April Buchanon that Greg and Deborah Barnes knew about this so we were called down there getting an interview by April where April to know who we have shown this reference to and I told April I said I haven't shown anybody but I didn't know it was a bad thing to do that right very odd that you're so why are you showing the people this reference and the whole thing was very odd I walked away and I told Greg I said Greg the something's gonna flap on this big time because now I know that they're refusing to follow an LRH reference and we are drilled as a 20-year Scientologists that if it's written that's what she do and here's a reference and they're not doing it not only that they didn't want to know who all knows it should be done right well plus two is that you read this reference and became so excited about it she wrote Deborah rotted right into the HCC and started getting handling yeah cuz I knew what was wrong with me because I was not doing good I've been in seven for seven years and I wasn't doing well at all personally spiritually I was not doing well um so when I read this reference I knew what was wrong I went down originated it bought two intensives started doing the Elledge this ant which is part of a sex check and what came out of that was that 25 hours of actual auditing on review of seven years SEC chefs and as they started doing all this review on my seven years of sex checks I knew even more beyond a shadow of a doubt that those seven years of sex checks while i-17 had harmed me and violated this LRH reference and was something that was very not good to be doing be doing and I experienced that because they cleaned it all up cost me 25 hours if you clean it all up well also to is like they were doing a correction list right mm-hmm with the preface question regarding the six-month checks then here's the correction list question right yeah the actual question was regarding seven years of sex checks was the actual preface to all the question and for anyone who's ever been on 7 or knows about reviews and Corrections 25 hours of review it's a lot of Correction and as Deborah was going through this correction she'd come home and she was getting brighter and brighter and more up tone and more uptown and more uptown so here it is it's now that was in 98 198 I actually what actually happened is that my awareness because I'm cleaning all this what I call squirrel check up on me is I became so aware and so I was so able to say anything to my auditor that I actually plan out to Maya there was another thing she was doing that was incorrect in my auditing I was a trained solo auditor I know what you do and don't do I pointed out to her that she was doing something she shouldn't be doing and I wanted to see what reference gave her the okay to do that and then I asked for and I wanted to go to qual and see that reference so I got an okay I went to qual and I saw the reference this particular reference was how to f PR D nots cases how you act how you audit f PR D on Knots cases and this reference that I saw was revised June 96 which is the exact date the golden age' tech for ot 7 came out and the revisions were in script this particular reference was 50% in script which told me right then and there that this h co b had been majorly altered also so now I had to datums number one they were not applying an already existing agency OB he's 373 RB refusing to apply that number to I now had a majorly altered HC OB on how to f PR D a nots case which conflicted with another confidential reference that I was very familiar with since I had soloed on seven for seven years which and I had worried things that made no sense to me which that reference is is how to handle reads on ot threes and above and how you handle reads on OTS is different than how you handle reads on people who aren't so those of you who are watching this who are ot realize that they were not doing the SEC checks per that HC OB so you can only imagine the bypass charge that it creates when you're doing something wrong so you're doing great and I'm and I'm I'm actually doing very well I understood what was going on now and I was not going to have a little much cheston's I was going to take it to the ethics area once I finished my actual allegiance up check that I was on so I went back up after I finished saw that referencing qual and then they told me that my auditor was too busy and I said they'd give me another one I said no thank you I'll wait for that one so this would have been about March of 99 um no now I'm on the Hubbard ethics specialist course I got into the hub realistic specialist course in February of 99 so here's Debra's getting is in the ACC and I'm on course and I'm having great wins in the Hubbard ethics specialist course and I'm demoing KSW keeping Scientology working and here is this LRH reference on sec checks that's not being applied I I see my friends who are on ot7 not really doing that much better some doing worse and I just can't take it anymore so what I do is I write this up to RTC and I tell three of my friends right sandy Adair Ruth Val Kahoot is now has dropped her body and to read the reference also it was this read a reference that's all I want you to just read this reference now peaches puck is a class aid who's also one ot seven calls me up one day and says you know you're supposed to come to flag feeling like and leaving killing great she goes I came to flag feeling great and I left feeling like so I read her a paragraph from this LRH reference I gave her no verbal data retro graphing the reference and said have you stoled your DFP she said yes so that's what I did now what I want you to realize that's all that we did but that doesn't but you're going to hear the whole story of all that happen from just doing just that okay so then we told those people we tell those people I don't Deb did nothing no I didn't do anything Deb didn't do anything except I was in the background going oh it's gonna flap something's gonna flap here I just know it was cuz he Virginia had already been kicked off the level by flag for because she wasn't having enough sex with her husband um and her dad was paying for most of her bridge this would be for the reason she was kicked off the level and her Ellie wasn't renewed because she said I'm not doing anymore snapchats because this reference says I don't have to and I shouldn't be doing it right now this is what LRH says to do and I want to do whatever he says to do right and the fact that the church no ot sevens have been made since ot7 came out this could be a reason there's out text something's not being applied correctly right so I am so meanwhile what's cranking cranking going on in the EMA in the ethics office at the sand castle where all these OT sevens are doing their things it is just a poppy Canon is calling people in and intensively interviewing them and then she is writing a kr a report on what she's being told well she sent us a copy of one right we said April this isn't what goes on now get this instead of the people she's interviewing writing reports she's writing the report why doesn't these people that she's interviewing running report school because there's nothing to report that's why there was actually nothing to report so she then writes a report on her interview so I like to see now it's like second hand this is what blah-dee-blah said cuz bloody blight didn't write it up themselves so then now she starts writing these reports and she starts accusing Greg may Virginia and Mike of a black PR in the church well we never said anything to anybody all we did was Tom to read a reference now there's this written accusation that were black PR in the Church of Scientology and so we confronted her on the fact that that's not what happened April II and you know that and she actually we have a written document from her where she said you're right I take it all back no she took back the part saying we were black PR in the church right because Bill Rose who was there at the meeting not Mike McClatchy it was Bill Rhodes yourself me in Virginia well this is when Virginia show graphic write is like any first show me the reference but I understood what was going on right and we were supposed in we were accused of having this meeting and that got dispelled because we didn't have any my we didn't have any meeting a months gone by since I've been back in session so I go back down to the DP and go hey guys I want to go in session where's my auditor because I wanted to finish my cycle and just get out of there because and I wasn't getting back on the level because I knew there was something really wrong with the level but I did want to finish my auditing cycle because I didn't want to be accused like they accused Virginia of refusing to do a fact check or refusing to finish my program so I'm down there saying I want to finish my program went down there told them that and they said well your auditor is still too busy and I said well ok I'll I'll wait for you to call me that was early April ok so then that's when I told the people then Daniel Schultz I told sandy Ruth and peaches right now there was another person involved with this and his name is and gone saloon and Gosselin class 8 in LA he knew all about this reference me agreed as a matter of fact he had taken it so far as he had found 5 out tech points on F P Rd on applying FP Rd which is they use FP Rd on the sex checks on 7th of applying FP Rd sec check tech so to speak he'd find five violations of written scriptures from Ron that flag was doing comes to our house because he's here for a sec check comes to her house she's got these five reports he's going to go down there and he's going to handle him because he's got five tech things that they're doing now that's wrong according to him went down there to handle him well we never saw him since I'm called up by April Buchanon to come down and see her so I go down see April I'm interviewed for two days of totaling a amount of seven hours about why I disagree with SEC checks and I'm keep telling her April I'd you know do not disagree with SEC checks Hubbard says here in this reference don't do it well who told you that you should not agree with SEC checks has Virginia McCaffrey how she influenced you on sex checks I said no here's a reference that says what it says that's all that it says it should be applied so April's telling me how we can't apply this reference because we can't trust our t7s they falsify worksheets and I say well then those peoples we pulled off the level so finally after seven hours of interviewing and I'm not agreeing that we shouldn't apply the celery's reference I'm ordered to SEC checks and I'm disagreeing this go hold it we're discussing a reference you're not willing to apply it because RTC is running this six-month check line and I'm now being ushered to SEC checks I don't understand why so I agreed to go and it's not a sec check basically I am routed up to the ACC to meet with an audit everybody made res Blum who is a class 9 Golden Age of tech auditor and audit of the Year award winning auditor and I think she's foreign I shouldn't say I think I know she's foreign that's a Friday night session goes not too easy right the next day I go in on a Saturday I request a different auditor and different CS I'm denied the auditor and see us I didn't sleep well the night before but I'm taken back to the h2 the auditing room anyways Torrez puts the cans in my hands I say look I'm not sessionable she goes that's okay we're going to do an F P Rd correction list anyways I go that's I go hold it what do you mean and she goes do him in tab now so I did him a tab test right I said look I'm not sessionable I didn't sleep well she goes that's okay we're going to do one anyways I put the cans down I said no we're not that squirrel we're not going to do it I refuse pick up the cans up I'm then routed to the ethics area saying I'm being not cooperative we come back now I'm then escorted back up to the ACC by April Buchanon and kazuma one on either side of me uh sure back into the room now said you're going to do a ethics interview said fines - an ethics interview the ethics interview is a repetitive command starting off in the command is what over it has been restated it's being run repetitively nothing is being taken up that red I can't believe in read a few things read she said never was taken earlier similar it was never handled ot style after about 45 minutes to an hour this I say no more Torres stands up because I said look this is crazy I'm leaving this is this is Torres stands up says I know you're mad at me why don't you hit me now here's an auditor at the sand castle wanting me to hit her I said I said I don't want to hit you I'm not even mad at you you know I also want to interject something here for those of you that are trained you know the damage that this type of question can be done on a note e7 it's called a listing question you never ever ever do this and what unless you want to make someone crazy so the fact that they did this meant they intentionally were trying to make my husband crazy bursting through the door is Kazuma and able Buchanan because you're refusing to convene because I'm refusing to continue I'm then physically taken to RTC told that I got 10 people off the level I'm not being cooperative and I need to continue with this ethics interview I said fine I'll continue with the ethics interview but I don't want Torres Blum ask me a question we go back upstairs I'm put into the auditing room and guess who's in there now but Torres Blum I agreed to go back at it she asked me a few more questions ago this is insane I'm not doing it anymore I get up April Buchanan and Kozma come in the door again just the door is unlocked they come in the door again they close the door and now they will not physically let me leave I'm saying this is insane this is not Scientology and I want to be let go I want to be released this is insane for 45 minutes to an hour they are pushing their bodies up against me and not allowing me to actually leave the Sandcastle also aren't they threatening you oh yeah oh I'm being threatened with your marriage will be ruined your kid will be pulled at a Scientology school you'll be lose all your friends lose all your friends your pastor bond you we're gonna declare you all these threats the threat I mean I said look I don't care what you do but this is insane this is not Scientology and I'm leaving so finally they agree to let me leave conditional that I come back the next day which I agree to do I agree to come back dynasty I would have agreed to swim the Atlantic Ocean at that given point in time just to get out there so I left uh he comes home tells me the story and we're like we're never going back there again there was I knew what they had tried to do to him they had tried to make him luck they tried to make him make my husband have a psychotic break so I'm like whoa what is going on so they were not going back so they want a Deborah to come in oh no that was on Saturday so that happened to him on Saturday while I'm here home the Emma it calls me on Saturday while he's down there want me to come down there and see April I said no I'm not doing that um if you I don't want to do an interview with April and if you want me to do an hcof check I'll do one I got nothing I'd I'll do one and uh Debbie Titus was your order and why Debbie Titus is my auditor and Debbie Titus is the only one that's gonna audit me and then I also said they wanted me come down and get out you know do a metered interview and I said no I can't do that cuz I drank a beer with my pizza last night Friday night a head piece and I drank a beer so I'm not me durable so I'm not coming down so that's what happened cuz that's an important thing because it comes up on my non interim as a whole other story so now here it is Sunday I refuse to go in I tell them I won't let them do to Debra what they did to me Monday Cosma calls me and says well if you won't come in come down and get your non inter border I said just mail it to me right on mother's day we we go to my parents house we come back there's a message on recorder saying your comment is being called at 7:30 come on in if we rush we found something to watch chase yeah we were in shock we didn't even have an I would report written on us right so we didn't even know there was anything like this going on so we went in and here is a bill of particulars on goldenrod okay listing out that I got 10 people off the level that I blew a sec check Deborah drinks so she wasn't sessionable um what are the things I'm her face Oh oh it's a homeless whole list of stuff so published in the Sandcastle ma A's office none of which is true and they know it so we're like where's our Kay ours well that's not our responsibility to get UKR yeah you can see your kid that we were told you can see your K ours at your comm EV so it's that violates policy because normally you don't even have a comm evan till this but a whole bunch of care is written up on you and you know so here we are having a comment which is the highest justice action in the church being accused of some pretty bad things and we have no copies of Kaos now the Adelie that we were not allowed to even get a copy of the accusations they printed a bill a golden rod which per policy we're supposed to have a copy of that now we showed them the HC OPL which says a committee of evidence in policy letter says you're supposed to give the person a copy of it they said well here see this you saw it that's your copy but you could we couldn't take it with us right we asked him point-blank so I want you to give us a copy and they'd and they basically said one of the share people of the committee said because we don't want to okay this is really getting interesting so anyway we go to the comment so that was Sunday night so then Monday night we're allowed to see our chaos so Greg and I show up with just Greg and me and we go over the sink and importance of the Ford Harrison the MA is office in the port Harris yeah the whole maa area is closed off at the Fort Harrison that's a pretty big deal actually all closed off for our comm EV Greg and I are there and we're taking one by one into a room with April so that we can see these K ours I am shown a kr via gentlemen he's a public person where he was told by her burden that I was running a business out of my house illegally this was a kr right now me I was written KR by peaches pooks where I told peaches that I don't allow people to write kr is in my business if they got something say say to each other right and this about a paragraph like this as well as and that was it that was it these are these so these are to care as I was shown no no you had you're not in term now that April Buchanon wrote well yeah but I'm talking my reports right so I'm thinking this is a joke right as well as I brought file folders for all the committee members on what really happened so then I'm released I'm allowed to go into reception Debra gets called in and then I'm called in by April and this is what I have is I have I have a non intermittent by April and I asked April I said the non Iturbe was written a week earlier and I said April how come I didn't even know I had a non inter border you gotta realize now I'm not a triplet I'm not interpolation order issued by the church means you do one more thing to make any trouble anywhere you're automatically declared boom bam boom just like that out and I go April cuz I had this for a week you never gave it to me why not she goes because I don't have to all right can I have a copy no I go what reference to apply she goes there's no reference it says I have to am I not inter basically said that I refused an H do sex check I said April nobody called me to come get one and that I purposely drank a beard to avoid a session I go April that's not what happened at all it didn't matter so I had that I had a report from kazuma about my little thing with her on how I didn't want to go in and get an interview and I had drank in a beer so I'm not me durable and to go ahead and give me a HCO SEC check that's fine I'll just do one that's what this is all about anyway nothing bad about that and then that's about all I had no I had one from peaches Pook she's a parishioner outside the church basically said well Deborah was upset with her with her six-month checks but I don't think she is anymore that was it and I'm being accused of love like yo twelve horrible things I've done to the church no it's it's important to we want people to understand all these points for going over because the church has printed an entire different story about right an entirely different story and as we get going forward and as you understand is we get to into the references and stuff you'll understand why all right they had to make us an unbelievable couple who basically were the scum of the scum we had turned in after 20 years of being in Scientology myself being an OT Committee Chairman on staff for five years running one of the most successful wise companies recruiting doctors getting 70 doctors on the bridge there were being a train soup also on staff going up the bridge patrons all of a sudden we had turned into after moving to flag to do the Golden Age attack we had turned into horrible people right the last thing that April showed me was a session Kay are written by Terez bloom on my husband so what happens is when you get a sec check the auditor write up the bad things that you said you did and then you have to go to the ethics officer to handle them or whatever right so there was a session key I written on greg's SEC check remember on that earlier Friday he actually had a session and then he had that ethics interview where they tried to make him crazy on the following Saturday so in this session ki written by Terez Blum Gregg admits to everything oh he was black PR in the church he was doing this he was throwing his son up I'm reading this whole session care and I knew the whole thing was a lie which meant holy mackerel oh not to mention sexual thing oh yeah there were sexual things in there too that he admitted to not very complimentary oh no that I had masturbated I hate to say something but I'm a guy and I have done it but never told this auditor about it right so anyway but no grow it oh and I wasn't paying the bills didn't pay our bill but Deborah was the FBO so that didn't go over too good yeah I know all the bills I knew the whole thing was alive but the key point here is where he admits to doing all these bad things to the church running a black PR campaign oh he had decided at RTC and corrupted the tech um and I read this and I go holy mackerel these guys who are now making false documents on him because I knew my husband didn't do any of that I live with him 24 hours a day and I knew they didn't show it to him because if he'd saw this kr he would have been livid he would he probably would have like just walked out of the Fort Harrison so I knew they didn't show to him so I asked specifically thought of my husband did you show us my husband oh yeah oh yeah sure okay good so so then so then it's my turn to go into the committee to go over our crimes no no you pled good we bread that night was the committee was all there and we were to plead guilty or not guilty to all the crimes we are accused of yes humanity in the church no I don't want everyone to know to who's watching this right we might be rather relaxed right now talking about this but I want you to understand the insanity the upset and the interpolation that's going on in our lives now that our son we might have to pull our son out of a Scientology school most of our independent contractors as well as employees with Scientologists a lot of ours our clients with Scientologists all of our friends obviously to 20-years who your friends are all Scientologists so even though out not only to mention the fact that you're now confronted with some really unbelievable things right your own church that you've supported for twenty years is actually doing it right in front of your face right you got a look at it does it happen in and it's happening at flag the same place at least in McPherson died so you know I don't want you to get the idea that we just kind of lollygag went through this and go oh isn't this funny oh it was very serious we were very upset it's like you know to understand something so we go into the comment and I want you understand something that per policy per the common policy Ellery says like you know look the guys being comment is gonna be a little bit shaken or upset so be easy on them I sit down here are these there must be eight or nine Sea Org members in full dress uniform staring at me and they're not staring very nice this kind like this and there's this little guy in there sitting right next to art web with these these coke bottle glass is right leaning on the table going like this to me right now I'm sitting there I handed out to all the members all the documentation evidence to prove that we had not done anything right reports from other people you know time plays form of it that proved everything that we be accused of was garbage art web goes to all all the things I'm accused of and I plead guilty to a problem because I figured I must have caused the problem to cause all this to happen then I'm excused and I can leave then you go in then I go in I do the same thing I plead not guilty to everything except causing a problem and so then I specifically ask a committee member if I could have copies of these k RS because any all the cares that were written were written mostly by the C remember C eric members cause of my Ozma Buchanan declared members running the upticks area and the the policy is I'm to get a copy no they're not interested not their problem so I was allowed five minutes to study this huge accusation called a bill of particulars so I'm writing down on a piece of paper and Greg and I left it so that I asked my husband I said I so let me tell you about the session report that I saw and I told him what was in it and I go were you shown that and he said no he wasn't shown that at all so I said you know Greg were to be declared that's a down and done we're out of here we're declared it's already been ordered the question now is why and who it doesn't matter what we do at this point it's time to find out why and who is what's happening after Deborah came out of telling the committee or going the committee going through all the accusations or which he's accused of how does she plea Deborah and I are supposed sitting in the ethics area and Deborah's copying down the bill particulars one of the committee members comes out goes into the ethics office talks to cause April I suspect it's April because she's the only one in there comes out and on the way into the room going back into the other office Deb stops Ernest has excuse me but there are several krz written on us that we not have copies of and we would like copies of these to respond this individual looks at Debra and says we are not interested in your response and you know we are thoroughly dumbfounded and we are intimidated we are in fear we are in shock that this can be happening later on we'll be very relieved and happy that it happened and we'll explain that as well but so but I want you really put yourself in our position the shock of like we're not interested in your response so said fine is you got to realize at that point we know we're being declared the ramifications of that at that point are devastating in your life right almost like 20 years of Scientology you don't know what you do if you were declared in none of our contributions which took up two full pages of foolscap size paper single-spaced amounted to nothing amounted to zip right so we leave no we leave and of course I asked my husband if he saw that session TR where he admits to do it to doing all these bad things right oh yeah all these bad things are I moved down here to Clearwater to to start a black PR campaign against RTC that's right with my business I planned to do a black PR campaign and if you believe that then you'll probably believe the church that I was on the grassy knoll in 1963 and I shot John F Kennedy I'm surprised didn't accuse us of that you know or C or sinking the Titanic but woody but what they did do is Greg saw the actual correct session kr on that session he had that's what he was shown I was shown a different one totally false so I go wild Greg now they're making up false documents in an effort to third party people right so we leave Michael Virginia come down good they to go to their comment and we have agreed to not go back until they apply policy yeah after day after day two because that my converge came down the next day they went same scenario and now Virginia also read parts of this phony-baloney session kr on my husband where he admits everything she's read parts of it so we go okay there's telling people other people about this and reading to other people here Greg admits to all these horrible things he's done to the church right and I want you to understand something because in a future video we will be discussing some of the lost cases on libel and slander and a church can shun its parishioners that is legal in the United States for church to shun but you cannot accuse people of financial wrongdoing while I'm doing X or or sexual wrongdoing so here is your management now setting you up to pay more court fees for a libel or slander case okay which they have lost before not with us obviously both other people virgin might show up they go through the same routine the next day and then the next day for some reason which is now day three of the comm EV Virginian mic go down to the comment but they're not supposed to show up here is a room full of Scientologists now who are being thoroughly educated on the facts of Gregg Barnes Debra Barnes Virginia and Mike Wright room I don't even know what some of these people write being thoroughly indoctrinated to and reading all reading all the stuff about us bla bla bla right so when a virgin might came back and tell us about that I went hey guys this isn't a comment they're not applying one piece of comment policy so maybe there's no policy that's written that they're even doing I said this is a black PR campaign this is a pretended comma to ruin our reputations so they're gonna smear campaign on us disguising it as a comment that's what's going on I said one thing that Hubbard did that I found out was real workable is that if you have something that's really what sorta I want to use in turbulator on your lines just cut it quit communicating with it so we decided we were not going to participate with the comment they would call us we'd ignore their phone calls all we'd get brats this that well we wouldn't we when calling back well if we wanted nothing to do with it well the fact of the matter is to write is that they called and this girl said to me wish I remember her am I having a one-inch pour she goes when he/she goes when you guys going to come to your senses I said what are you going to come to your senses I said as soon as you start applying LRH policy we'll start cooperating send us copies of RK ours so we can respond and we'll cooperate right well the other thing that we did we go well this is a comm F so let's just write it up to ijc explain to him what's going on and ask for an honest one right and realize - we're talking very calmly now right we got about maybe three hours of sleep at night and we worked feverishly work setting up mounds and mounds reports right FedEx is to ijc help us help us help us comms to all the International Management right and they knew about it all they knew about the squirrel sex check they knew about the black PR campaign all of it I got two columns back from ijc saying thank you for the information we are reviewing it if you have any more information please provide it to the committee and that was it right in regards and we said we said I J see a request to get rid of this comm EV issue an honest one and here's our contributions because he contributions in Scientology are supposed to carry a lot of weight we had a two page as two huge pages of caught 20 years contributions and we never got any response to that ever well matte matter of fact when I asked the conative committee member if she had seen my contributions or our contributions I go you to see our contribution goes yes I know what do you think about it she goes we're not sure it's all true so so you gotta realize every every corner we turn we were being invalidated invalidated you know evaluated nullified the press suppressed there was a total attempt and they did a very good job to beat us into submission right and I can only say this that after spending close to a half a million dollars Scientology about 150 thousand twenty thousand dollars on ot7 that we had gotten something out of it the ability to hold a position because see they weren't applying LRH we started looking at PR series 18 if you get out your green balls look at PR series 18 however will say if somebody's black PR and you they have crimes they have huge crimes dead bodies well got Lisa McPherson embezzlement other major crimes well I'm magnitude so we decided the for Vespers Mike my husband and myself decided this is a smear campaign on us we got to investigate our own church it's time to start investigating to find out what the hell is going on you gotta realize we're using our own scriptures to find out what the hell's going on and what is going on at the church and Christ and the only thing that kept us saying was Hubbard's data on if this is happening do this right so here's the organization the mecca of tech and not everybody over there let's be very very clear we do have a select group of individuals right who are gone insane literally insane okay and so now we start applying the PR series 18 so we start investigating we get on the internet oh man where's were we're looking at court documents and boy oh boy are we finding stuff well about six weeks after the comment remember how this all started out with that CS 373 RB that reference that was said you're not applying it and then they wanted to know who all of you told this reference to mentor I do I want to see and I want to show this if I can this is in the Searcy or 73 RB is an ACL B but it's also in tech vol 8 it's also an ACL PL it's in this technical book the green book right what do you call them Oh II see I always see sorry it's the camera nervous right on page 1 1 1 1 1111 is what page is on and I just want to read you one quick paragraph so you understand we're talking about here and Hubbard says and this is on page 1 1 1 3 the very top says pre ot is progressing well in the no interference area should not be interfered with by sect checks or anything else however when a prio tea is stalled are moving slowly any of the actions listed below as appropriate can be ordered by qualified CS pts handling confessionals and OWS hailing of postulates considerations f PR D evil purposes surfac handling disagreement checks so that means basically if you're progressing well you shouldn't be interfered with every six months somebody's being interfered with and I also want to back up a little bit to let you know too that I wrote up here's a full letter to David Miscavige right and regarding the six-month checks because I couldn't find any ill any policy letters there's no reference on stage that has them has the name six one check now it's called refresher and I can guarantee you there's no H Co B's or policy letters regarding refreshers but that at that point it was six months now I wrote a letter to Miscavige and I got a letter back from ensign and Rathburn and it says dear Greg your letter of April 29 concerning the subject of six one checked was forward to me to answer as the Deputy Inspector General flag lambaste I can deal with such matters directly I want to assure you that the six-month check line is absolutely an on source line based on LRH policy letters 8co B's case supervised series and solo notes references well there's no LRH policy letter or ACL B that says anything about it none if you can fight with there might be one now there could be one that just come out with saying oops we found something by LRH you know that and we inheritance you know but there isn't any all there is is this HCl B so go ahead so now we have this little B okay so so meanwhile now the calm F is over and of course oh it's really bad if you refuse to cooperate with a comment I mean we have really put our necks on the chopping block now because we refuse to cooperate and the penalties are double according to an expert Bala C so now we have really put our head on the chopping block and I got to tell you quite honestly we're we're like we're praying that ijc is going to save our lives you got to realize we really thought that our lives our lives were going to be ruined if we were declared it was like we didn't even know what we would do be become if we were declared it was one of the scariest thoughts I could ever imagine and also realized this too right is that we told right of all of our friends down here in Clearwater and even the people who were visiting us we told maybe three people because our story is so unbelievable that if you know us I couldn't make something like this up but if one of my friends had had happened to them had had happened to them what happened to me and they told me the story I myself would have a hard time believing it is too unbelievable it was set up in a perfect way that we are who you gonna believe well let's finish the story okay so I did that the story's not over okay it gets better it gets better so we're not sit we're laying low I took Rick alright we're here in Clearwater you know we're five minutes from the flag base we're just laying low lay low I go to one stop shop everyday to pick up our meal and now as said we have a billing service for chiropractors so all of a sudden one of our billers Tony Reed calls up and says dr. Maggie Goodyear is leaving us and I said why he said that she spoke to her vive an maa at the sand castle and um she basically um Greg Greg you're missing the you're missing the first part of that okay she was told yeah that would that all occurred when they when they did the smear campaign local because remember it got a what's-her-face lines and she called her and then she called her you gotta talk about the smear campaign first remember I started with Panetta slaughter oh man and see what the Barnes all right oh yeah I get the sort of smear campaign oh this happened next oh yeah all right so it's now we're laying low we're just laying low and we're we're hoping for the best we don't but for the best not gonna make no trouble we got not interview one wrong move we're declared we're not gonna give them any honest reason to declare so they're gonna declare so they're gonna have to do it by made-up stuff why do you have a sour attitude I didn't he doesn't need right I mean we women we just leg low right we're gonna get me on nothing except they had it had to be a lie right because we I knew now that the reason for the knot and Turbots that if I told anybody what they just did I'd be declared and see it would be a right reason to do it is somebody in the field with my lies right so anyway six weeks are going by now is past the comm eV and all of a sudden we get in the mail see a series 73 RA now you got to realize this RB and RA now these are is BRE visions B would be revised third time third revision and we had a copy of a okay good now the first thing we got a cop cos we can't we can't wanting to figure out what is the big beef with this reference this was the fact that we said that they were not applying this reference created all this hoopla all this lying about us man there must be hot something hot about this reference and there is there is very something hot about number one it was written in 1971 and revised in 85 Hubbard died in 86 right so so one could assume that this was in fact revised by Aaron Harbor because he wasn't dead yet right one commander the one thing that's real interesting is that the ra version is 12 pages long they are B version is only five Wow that's a lot of information that's just been ripped out of a reference right now also okay so what happens now - is that our friends are being called up no no no no here's what happened next so what do we do we don't really know what's going on the church even at that point even though we're investigating we faxed it to osa because they got to know somebody's corrupting the tech my god do you know what kind of legal situation that's good for the church in first we think we're helping them we didn't realize that we were like the Jews reporting to Hitler the SS is killing us we faxed it to AUSA go on what the going on here look what somebody's doing we found it we found it you gotta find out who's doing this putting our church at risk right and of course it wasn't long afterwards we found out that that was like we're the Jews reporting the Hitler the SS is killing us because now they knew we had the reference now we were becoming real dangerous because we could prove somebody's corrupting the tech there's a story about this reference as a class 8 in the field I'll leave out his name he was a CSA Te'o la in California Los Angeles California that during 1988 to 1989 RTC sent a huge mission out to pick up what's called class 8 packs which is a series of all the technical bulletins and scriptures on on a highly skilled auditor would know and have and always use this are a 12 page reference was in there RTC wanted him all picked up well this class 8 didn't like that so he hid his class 8 pack so it couldn't be picked up and this particular reference was in that class 8 pack it had never been printed in a book because they were always reprinting the books and it never got printed in a book so it was very easy to hide it and basically they are now hiding this particular reference they're hiding it so hard the fact that this reference exists isn't even on the RB is they are they always supposed to list all the revisions on a bulletin this revision isn't even on the third revision they omit it completely that it even exists on the third they're hiding it so hard and then this particular reference mr. Hubbard makes no bones that on ot7 you don't even f PR d somebody he says that specifically you do not do f PR d on someone who's on ot7 right okay so now access to OSA thinking that we are doing the right thing all right and what ensues from there is now the black PR campaign locally now locally local smear campaign happens very shortly after that where once again April Buchanon is now calling people in the field she starts with Panetta course water she starts with Panetta slaughter knows everybody would get everybody on the bandwagon where they're all pulled down to the mas office to be shown these accusations are those to the bill particulars and God knows what else they showed them and who are you gonna believe who are you gonna believe you can I believe the mas office or are you going to believe some public sitting in the field well nobody ever asked us anyway we didn't even respond to any of the stuff we had no copies right they were told look how bad these people are they've gone wacky right don't talk to them they're there in ethics there no no they were told that a declare was eminent because and how we find out that was going on is we got faxes from people faxes from our friend from our so-called friends saying oh go down there right now you got to handle your situation you're going to get declared it's coming right now right well we're on vacation with it yeah we were actually on vacation these faxes were coming in so anyway so then we find out that then one of our clients leaves because she has been read this rather slanderous and libelous document which you should also know his contractual interference okay she leaves our service um because she's told by by the church that were bad people and she won't pay her bill why shouldn't your bill now so now I've had enough of this so I basically get one of my friends locally it used to be friends to contact Ben Shaw who is a CEO of OSA flag and I sending him a communication and in that communication I list out what's going on the black PR the contractual interference is that's breaking the law and so this has to stop the insanity has to stop yeah like what you know we're still thinking oh you know OSHA's of a place to go to it's creating an exterior situation right so let's back up a little bit when I contact Ben Shaw we have not Maxton this oh yeah oh so ain't had it around oh oh so yeah okay so oh so it was sent that I was basically Maseca that so Ben Shaw calls us up calls us up and we go down see Ben Shaw at the bank building in that nice big conference room and Ben Shaw sitting there with this other girl who I don't know this lady and Ben Shaw is very concerned he goes you know you're right this thing has gotten totally out of hand why don't you let me investigate what's going on and I'll get back to you so he gets back to us right that's what the first meeting we think that he's gonna do something yeah we actually think like okay GUI found somebody saying here's somebody's gonna handle this craziness what the heck's going on he's gonna do something so he calls us up and uh was that the meeting I'm going to have now with with is it Kathy or Debbie true yeah that's Kathy true Kathy shoes so I've called up and said you know Greg OSA in is sent down someone handle your cycle personally wow that's pretty good so he goes I want you to meet me over at the Fort Harrison well I'm not too interested in really meeting on church property considering what we've just been through he goes luck he goes it's me just chill out it's okay so I said okay good no I'll meet with you so I meet with Ben he then introduces me to cannot be true and now she's an auditor who then who then escorts me up to the HGC we're talking very nicely into an auditing room where she then opens up a red ball to with holds and I said what are we doing I thought you were here when Ben Shaw said preface to us meeting he goes she wants to ask you some questions about this entire cycle she knows all about it she does more about than I do so here we are in HEC I said well I thought you want to ask you some questions and she goes well I want to handle this first I go handle what she was why I want to help you I go great then let's stop the black PR campaign let's handle the false reports in front of my wife and I right and I said because you're not going to audit me and I said plus if you really want to help me you'd be doing in l4b RA or BRB I just finished so it on a certainty course and when you cuz when you have all this out tech on somebody you do a correction list not adding them up on with holds Sables the whole thing introvert you introvert you interview it's you it's you it's you I couldn't understand it so I said so I said you know that's it that's enough right you're here to ask me questions you're not asking me any questions right I went through the entire story with her it was almost like there was this fake interest so I leave the Fort Harrison with her very pleasant goodbye and the whole bet we have another meeting with Ben and Kathy honest that I want we want to see the K ours we want to see the knowledge report yeah he's it yeah because they're like all oh well they said well these knowledge reports are really been and of course now oh s--- is telling us that but that the comment is has been stopped on hold on hold sometimes on hold that's right and we're going to try to sort this out before the final findings come out right and so what happens next as we go to Sears our third meeting with Ben Shaw and we are down told we are a legal threat well I asked Ben I say so bad how come you won't give me copies of the chaos and you guys because you're a legal threat and I'm going what I haven't even talked to a lawyer and I'm going oh I'm and then I realized I'm a legal threat because all the supports are lies which is why they can't give them to me so they gave them to me I could go legal home because it's all a bunch of lies that's why they can't give me copies what if it was true about me there's their defense so now we call now so now we're nullified some more and introverted attempting to be interest that we're now a legal threat so Ben Shaw agrees to meet with us again and this time give us the Kay ours Oh read them read them contigo they're really bad well yeah I call Ben um a week later and go so where is it he goes he goes I've seen him and he goes there's some pretty serious reports here so okay so when can we see these pretty serious reports we want to respond so you go there and this myself Deborah Ben Shaw Debby true Kathi true katha you're keeping the scrolls named Kathy true now we look at these reports as a report written on us by and these noise or kr know those few Mercury's we don't have any comment we don't have any copies and it appeared that what was going on is dead even after a comma they are majorly soliciting anything they can from anybody as a matter of fact one thing that they had also done is one of my vendors one of my most productive vendors who worked for me who was a Scientologist who didn't know anything about us was actually remember when they were blowing people talking people in the field here locally in Clearwater all of our friends anybody in everybody calling them into the into the find out all about us they had they had called him down there also and good yeah he was very very upset when he said when he left there he thought we were bad yeah that's we were really bad and he knows us and he knows he works with us but when we brought him back it when he came back here and he met with us and we showed on the reports by the maa herself retracting some of the stuff that she had not told him that she was retracted he got an entirely different perspective of it so now it's our last meeting this is our well we didn't know it's our last thing but it's our meeting with Ben Shan and true or is it false anyways and so we meet with them they show us these reports witchers yeah and they're sitting here so reading their these reports Ben Sean Cathy true they're sitting there and they're watching our reaction right you can just tell that is the whole thing is there they are trying to create some kind of effect on me here I've read the stuff and I just start laughing because it is so completely utterly ridiculous I told Ben shell after I read him I said Ben I didn't want to copy this trash there isn't any there was one shred of evidence that I have committed any crime on the church and I told him I said just finish the damn calm F and he says instantly you're blackmailing me and I go what I'm blackmailing you and then I realized that they're using this declare as blackmail on me and I said just finish the combat and he goes what about your friends should I go what about them it goes what about your eternity and I said Ben you're not selling any kind of an eternity I'm interested in and then they said well do you need a session did it in a day I go no we don't need a session this isn't about sessions this is about doing the right thing this is about honesty uh and then they said well always one of the other things for said the reserved well and then oh no this is what they said they said the only way this could have happened is you had to have done something bad I'm going what you do this crap to me which means I'm bad boy are you guys warped that's what they said remember that they said this could have never happened to you unless you have done something really really bad well exactly that is a warped piece of tech let me tell you that is not what l ron hubbard ever said well busy that's the church's idea if it happened to you then you pulled it i will see the church but of course if it happens of the church they didn't pull it back he's attacking the church church the church is up in court dead bodies libel slander cases everything else it's SPS attacking them it happens to us we pulled it in don't understand that but we don't have to understand anymore because we're not part of that so anyways and here's something else is that true and Ben Shaw admit that Terez Blume did what she did right they said you know she was out Tech portes she said they said was under a lot of pressure and she had some 2d problems never once did they apologize to me and then Kathy true looks at me she goes do you how many class nine auditors there are there's not that many and it's like I'm like going you know geez I'm sorry that I was there when she decided to go crazy you know I said but who was the CEO so there was no see yeah then they try to say there's no see yeah I go the CES was this was the deputy senior c/s you know over there at the Sandcastle yeah oh no no it wasn't I got hold it I was told that my CS was the deputy senior c/s oh no there was no CS so here it is no CS so you have a class nine auditor right and to MAS on their own decide to arbitrarily write up a program and try to spin in an OT seven now if you'll believe that then I have some property down in South Florida to sell you because that was like if after the meeting they said that's it we're never going back yeah I could see now we know that OSA it was it was okay it's gonna do nothing for us here's mariposa is covering up and you know in here's something else to remember I said this to Ben Shaw I said you know Ben if I was gonna black PR somebody this is exactly how I would do it I want you to picture this you have Kozma who's been ma the Sandcastle forever you have a beware cannon who's this cute little blonde with this very convincing smile and AR see and care you have this award-winning monocot not a tragic auditor you have all these other people in the comment and they're all saying the same thing about Deb and I who are you going to believe right I said it was perfect it was just set up masterfully because if I was going to do somebody that's exactly how I do it I would take authority figures that the church believes and then I would basically have them saying oh poor greg has gone self you know he's gone crazy and people are going to believe it it's going to be believable so we leave there do we leave there and as far as we're concerned we don't really care what they do we really don't we don't care what what they're gonna do we then just continue to investigate the church get on the internet pull documents and this is why the church does not want you on the internet it's because on the internet is all the data about the current management's illegal activities that they've gotten caught for as well as court cases and other extremely interesting stories by other Scientologists yeah there's a lot of crazies on there there's also people who have stories that are not crazy and that are very very true not to mention the technical alterations that are going on with the basic books and other technical matters so you got to realize here as 20 of Scientologists we are really taught that you don't rewrite rewrite Hubbard's tech policy called keeping Scientology working and in this it says you can't you can only be upgraded for no results or bad results so now I understand what Lisa happened they're not using they're not using the scriptures right they're rewriting them and explain why it is at least it was definitely a bad result for Christ's sake oh yeah Lisa goes around six months later she goes crazy and then died 17 days later all right so I mean I can't support I guess with this stuff I'm out of here oh god I'll say one thing about Lisa because I was a PR spokesman for the church regarding the the press Lisa McPherson as they have lie that they lie to most of the parishioners about work happen in another video we'll go over some things about what they told me and I will basically tell you what I know that occurred but so now we've left and now the full core black PR program starts and it's bad enough that they're maligning my reputation and Deborah's reputation but now they start going after my 9 year old son he is supposed to go to the movies Tony reason taking in the movies with his nephew Trevor it's gonna be Star Wars movies it's a Sunday Tony where he goes to pick up Trevor and Steve and Pam Hackney people that we've known for years tell Tony that they do not want their son Trevor playing with our son chase because of what we have done I realize we won't even declare at that point so now this was like five months before we're a declare we give her issue that so now it's bad enough that they came after us but now they want to see what other points that they can go after and get so now at this point we'd be just be can't began to like really continue to investigate to find out the truth about what the heck happened at the church Scientology because that is no longer we knew that was no longer the Church of Scientology it was a total pretense well it was yeah so we knew that so now I just began who are they where are they what really happened how did this all happen we couldn't be with but you see we could not believe that this was happening it was like a nightmare that we couldn't wake up from well you got a real I was hoping I'd wake up what is everything 20 years of everything we believed was basically shaken you believe something for 20 years it's all shaken and it was a very humbling experience but I wouldn't change that experience for anything because one thing I wanted and one thing I still believe in and Hubbard said this is that live with the truth be on the road to truth so I told my husband I said I want the truth I don't care what it is right I don't care it's long as I along is the truth that's what I want because I want to live my life with the truth so anyway the the OSA then also began to use the Lisa McPherson trust to smear us even though we had never caught we've never really done much with them or anything there were many people right there you are but we weren't we I never spoke to anybody at least McPherson tries matter of fact we were hoping the church would go away we want nothing more to do with any conflicts they were involved in right and then it got to the point to where now we're going into January of 2000 we think they're going to go away right it's been six months yeah and we just said okay we're laying low we're not making a trouble forum next night making a trouble in the field with just laying low mining our own business doing our thing but we're we're and we're watching them on the internet investigating that the next thing you find out is that one of chases teachers at Delphi faxes isn't out and says that she no longer wants her son to play we chase after the declare no no really well who knows before the clerk know was it yes sir excuse me it was before the declare now when was actually declared Greg oh was it huh three weeks before we declared her absurd and long-term friend of ours is called directly by OSA to be told I don't know what all they told him but he called us up and said your son cannot play with my son anymore up to that point this was January now up to that point chase was still playing with his son there was we never said anything to anybody any Scientologist we did deal with we never told them anything they wouldn't believe us who would believe us who would believe it so we never told him I so many contact we have with Scientologists we were just hate you know not never never talked about the church nothing so then so we go oh okay that was three weeks before the declares actually issue so I go so Greg they're either really going to issue it are they're still trying to like get us to come back or I don't worry I don't know what they're doing right so but it was upsetting because when I got explain to my son while you can't see his best friend anymore so anyways so on February 14th which is Valentine's Day we received our badge of courage which is a SP declare right here okay and I want to go over some of it with you it says in October of 98 Gregory Barnes spread falsehoods and black PR and advocated squirreling of the standard application of a large technology in an effort to prevent others from progressing up the bridge that never happened okay now also what you understand to that in the policy letter on how to issue ethics orders l art says beasts cific so they say that we spread falsehoods in black PR that's not true it can be proven not true but doesn't matter this is what is the church says and there are certain individuals that will just believe whatever the church says don't look and think for yourself just believe what we say they basically said here that we've attempted to convince other Scientologists to participate in squirrel actions I don't know what those actions are but we have pointed out that the six-month checkup refresher is not standard so I don't know how we want people to participate in squirrel actions they created in tribulation with their off source activities Nader and black PR all know who we NAT or to in very much everything they cute si we can prove that's exactly what they did it says here they refused numerous offers to apply standard LRH tech to straighten out their confusions and out ethics not once were they willing to apply any policy not once where they play willing to apply any form of decency or AARC and discussing with us our being up front our it was sealed pact sealed and determined where we were going to go if we did not crawl back on our hands and knees and I'm sorry but if that's freedom I'll take slavery okay that's it was just gross so here it is number three says issuing altar is Scientology technical data or information or instructional or admin procedures calling it Scientology or calling it something else to confuse or deceive people after the true source beliefs and practices of Scientology so ladies and gentlemen what they're saying is Debra and I and anyone who knows us don't so busy and we are in our spare time we drafted a 12-page lr h HC lb we actually went down to the Copyright Office we copy written it copy wrote it so that we could basically publish an issue this is alterus technology and if you believe that well you can believe it but we were declared in black PR for doing nothing more than finding out that somebody is rewriting lr h technical bulletin not only that they're rewriting it to make money because the set checks that sevens have to get every six months are very expensive to the tune of sixteen thousand dollars every six months yeah sixteen to twenty with accommodations and airplane curb right this is a very expensive activity cost a lot of money and basically we caught them doing something they shouldn't do we could prove LOH said don't do that and it's all about money and but it also - it wasn't a matter of catching we didn't it wasn't like we were looking now they went really it's like here it was here's the DeLarge reference let's apply it and in the fear of it oh also what should be known - is been Shah said - you and I we said did you get this reference this is the 12 page CL series 73 ra he goes yes where'd you get it yeah that was the only thing else you guys know where we got that copy it were like going and no one want to talk to us about this reference I know what it's like where'd you get it it's it you know guys unbelievable now we were declared and we had nine independent contractors eight of which were Scientologists and of the seventy-five some odd clients we had maybe 20 were Scientologists and I want people who are watching this whether you know us or not or whether you're a Scientologist or you're think about getting in that your life becomes nothing but Scientologists you know you're friends with Scientologists the business starts becoming Scientologists and so now what's going to happen so the church started going after our clients one of our clients very specifically they went to his office they actually threatened him yeah he was a Scientologist he refused to disconnect so to speak and the church actually went to his office and threatened him with a declare if he didn't disconnect from us and he just basically refused so so here so here it is just like you know oh you didn't let it we're getting letters from clients saying the the church just called me and I'm my contract effective immediately now the big question is is out of the church now who our clients were right so that was interesting yes and that that's still an unanswered question and then and then here here are these independent contractors two of which said that they were our closest dearest friends and now we have become the devil incarnate they disconnect they have nothing more to do with us they won't communicate we have to threaten them legally to talk to us so I think people should know that this organization will go after your finance lines they will go after your business and they did and we have the documentation to prove that these false documents this false document right here accusing us of all these things right that's all a lie was used then to try to harm my business right which it did yeah it did yes I bought this well over a hundred thousand dollars a year it did harm our business so that occurred it's not over yet and you know we are taking somewhat of a risk on really cleaning public and saying this we want our friends to know what really happened okay because you won't hear this from the church they can't tell you what really happened so they told you what really happened you'd walk away so I want to say that after after being declared and realizing what we realized and and and we put and we stood up to a tremendous amount of pressure by the organization very specific people in the organization osa the mas office and other people not to mention our friends on the outside we probably we would stood all that because we believed in holding a position that this was right it was not right from it from I'm going to be right no matter what and I can't look and I can't see but this is not okay to treat people this way okay and all of a sudden all the things that I had read over the years in the newspaper seen a TV or read and magazines was true what I had read this organization had done to other people was now had now been done to me and it was so unbelievable that this was true it was it was shocking you gotta realize by the time I did clear had come out we already had lost most of our friends because they had all been told six months prior how bad we were and they weren't calling us and we weren't calling them um so we couldn't call because that what are we gonna say to him yeah I mean what we want to tell them what's going on but it's like they were people were it was like rats jumping off of a ship and we were so we were shocked that here is people that we had known for 20 years 15 years 10 years that we had helped financially or helped in other ways or they had helped us and all of a sudden uh just because some organization says we're bad just because somebody believed it they book is like and even if they didn't believe it they didn't want to do with us because as one good friend of ours you know just Shafter says I don't want to get in the middle of a war it was like where's where's the code of honor you know never allow affinity via Loyd never desert a comrade in need that was nowhere it was virtually nowhere but here's the thing that I want anyone who's in the church was ever thought about leaving and that's your own decision you know we're not here to say that everything a bit is bad about the technology because it's not we think there's there is value in it we want you to know something that it is so exhilarating to no longer have to condition your thinking to have to justify your actions to some 17 year old maa who knows nothing really about life or family or kids right to be able to have your own thoughts to be able to talk to who anyway anyone you want about anything you want right the case gain on that the resurgence of case gain you really do become more ot because you're free you know if you feel free inside the church fine continue right but I'll tell you something when you get away from these control these controlling control mechanisms you know all the events which will be having another video on the IAS horrible stories about this going on that going on on and all the money pressure the pressure of money being put on your lives when that's all gone right you're free you are really free to think to look to act and decide how you want your life to be and I got a lot out of Scientology there's no doubt in my mind I got and I will say it to the end of time I got a tremendous amount of it we both got something out of it we also used the scriptures of Scientology to find out what we found out to get out of it and you know and so we just want our friends to know that we're doing great we are doing extremely well as a matter of fact I've never been free in my whole life so the subjects supposed to free you I did use the subject to become more free as an individual so to that extent I can say it worked right and I don't think for a moment that Ellen Hubbard left meant for these things to occur right now you can sit there and think well geez they must have pulled it in because that's the party line they pulled it in look you see they pulled it and what is there out ethics well I'll tell you what our out ethics is all right ethics is that we have been out ethics probably for 15 out of 20 years of being members of the Church of Scientology because we invalidate our own personal integrity we ignored the out points that we saw for so many years we justified and rationalized some of the most insane behavior by other church members you know criminal behavior just insane acts that's our out ethics right and we decide we got our ethics in and we got our ethics in by moving to the to the mecca of tech we live five minutes from Flag we have not left we have not moved we have no intention of moving because we like Clearwater we like Scientologists we're not enemies to Scientologists any of you can call us whenever you want you can talk to us if you still love the technology that's fine you can love it we like it too right if you want to talk ask us questions we've more than happy to answer for you well but we want people to know that it's time that you do something to speak out that you look where the church doesn't want you to look and be very specific the management get on to the internet look where they don't want you to look if you have one of those webpage just they put into your computer realize that that web disk they put into your computer is stopping you from looking all over the internet and if the church is saying well we did that because there's ot material on the Internet realize this there's like that much ot material on the Internet okay it's insignificant if not I can't even find it okay but get there learn look and see think for yourself that's what you need to do is that what this subjects all about is think for yourself yeah be free look at things Hubbard looked at everything he read everything he probably did about everything but we as members we can't we can't think you know it's like I know a guy he told a dirty joke you know on ot7 he Danny got a whole bunch of travelers retaliatory drug into lower conditions but that's besides the point look we want everyone to know that we're doing great that you can we've never done better in the twenty years I've been in Scientology I have never personally and spiritually done better that I'm doing today and that's a fact so what I want everybody to know is that there is a life a bigger life outside of the church Scientology Church Scientology is the Truman Show there is a bigger life out there with all kinds of great people to make from all various beliefs and I want to meet all of them and I want to find out about all various beliefs because I'm free to choose whatever belief I want now right and it's like it's like you know you got to make up your own mind and make up your own just and decide for yourself don't be not being influenced what we said don't even believe what we said okay think that we're crazy other nuts they're ESPYs you know there's special people I've also know I was a special person anyways right but go look for yourself you decide okay you decide for yourself what's right and what's true don't believe what someone's telling you right go look and you decide that's integrity personal integrity is your ability to look and decide for yourself what's true for you according to your own observation and that is all my only last comments is that the biggest thing that we had to overcome was fear and that fear is created by an illusion because I've gone through it and it's all an illusion all the threats the church made me and all the horrible things that I thought were going to happen to me if I left the church I was declared never happen it's all an illusion and if you can just get beyond that there's freedom on the other side of that fear well the big question you got to ask yourself what are you doing in a church that you're afraid of right you gotta ask yourself that why would you be afraid of your own church what any and you know and if I was in the church today and I was watching this video say well I'm not afraid of the church right I understand that but go into the organ and say what you really want to say okay or come down to flag and say these six months checks or refreshers are watch how quickly you're ripping out a check and writing a check and getting SEC checked until you do agree with what they say okay I wish our one the best I hope you all do great you're open to communicate to us at any time you want even you been Shah some day you'll come to your senses I'm sure and you'll see the errors of your ways and you can call us too we don't hate anybody now we don't know it's like it's like they did us a favor by showing us a side of them we would have never seen ever seen if they had not excuse the French slapped us so hard we would never woken up to what's really going on right and I can I can tell you this is that whatever the church accuses others have doing you will find somewhere the evidence that they in fact did it themselves right and I have proven that every time and time a time from religious discrimination to everything else they themselves have done it themselves and they that's what they use to divert your attention to looking at them right so that's just the truth it is and so from flag or from Clearwater Florida we're saying ah this might look like a couch at the sand castle but it's not so from Clearwater Florida we say goodbye have a great life and we wish you all well anything else no that's ad alright bye get away No you

Channel: Mark Bunker

Views: 104,365

Keywords: Scientology, Greg Barnes, Debra Barnes, :L. Ron hubbard, Dianetics, squirrel, KSW, OT 7, declared, SP

Id: n-Sh3hLn6PM

Length: 81min 49sec (4909 seconds)

Published: Sat Jun 20 2009