Samantha Woll Trial -- Ex's recanted confession played: 'I murdered my girlfriend'

okay and um did you use any other numbers at around that time October and November 2023 um in the call uh that was played yesterday um there was some reference that you made of something to the effect of uh you were a danger to others do you remember hearing that yes and could you explain the jury uh what what you meant by that and why you said it um at that time I was very fearful of um of of what I I could have possibly have done and I um that fear carried over to possibly um doing the same thing again that I couldn't remember and and so I was just I was very concerned that that you know if if I had possibly harmed one person I could har another and I was I I desperately didn't want that to happen Okay and there was another um reference that you made something effect of what have I done what have I done remember saying that yes and can you explain to the jury um I guess why you said that and was going through your head at time you said again due to the the adverse reaction to the medication I I had convinced myself that um I had killed Samantha wall and was just that's what I was referring to at that time and um after you you placed the 911 call while you were in the the Shan parking lot um did you eventually have some interaction uh with some police officers yes and um have you had an opportunity to R some body camera footage of that interaction yes and the footage that youed to the best of your recollection that fairly inaccurately depict the interaction you had with those officers in yes and um and that was back on November 7 2023 is that correct that's correct and with that have been uh after you made the 911 call yes okay and I'm holding as proposed exhibit 28 um is it your understanding the footage of that interaction you ad I'll come to the other side can you open the door can you open the door for me I know I know I know I'm in trouble what's going on you can St in the car if you want no no what's going on your's going what's your name I don't remember I don't remember anything what's your name Jeffrey Jeffrey are you fromo I'm from Detroit okay what brings you over to K tonight I work at striker okay what do you do at striker scientist so what's going on tonight you're you're not in any trouble I just want to make sure you're okay what prompted you to call tonight do you have any weapons or anything on you no there's knife in the car a pocket knif a pocket okay noap on you or any knives or anything on right [Music] now I app it want to make sure that we're we're all safe you know all right going to shut your car here what are what your right [Music] now myfriend I don't remember where do your girlfriend stay atro Detroit what makes you think you [Music] her I'm stop video at minutes ands um Mr Herman there's a couple things I want to ask you about there was some reference to your um did you have a knife in your vehicle at that time yes and what type of knife was that um it was a a knife that is designed to be less than a car it has a a sharp end to break glass in case of emergencies it has a um a hidden or slot to cut a seat belt um to c a seat belt okay and did you uh regularly keep that in your car or was this just something that happened to be in your car on this particular day yes I I always kept it in my car and how long have you had that knife I believe I purchased it in 2015 have you ever used that knife as a weapon for no um there was also some reference that you made to having motive and opportunity what did you mean when you when you said that um I think that I believe that that people would consider that I I may have had a motive because we had broken up that um that I that that that might be considered a motive for for uh hurting Sam um and and I was convinced that um that that that could have been the case and and what did you mean by um saying that you had opportunity um I as I told the police previously I I was alone that night um I I uh didn't have anybody else to corroborate the fact that I I was um like by myself in my house at that time that she was killed okay and um there was also a reference to something about potentially outsmarting people you remember saying that yes and and what did you mean when you said that I um I think that I I was trying to explain how in the absence of my recollection and any evidence that that I had that that I I had ever committed this crime that that I I could have done so I just I was trying to figure out what had happened I was trying trying to rationalize it in some in in my my head that was you know there were all kinds of irrational thoughts going through my brain at that time and and I was trying to rationalize what was going on and these sort of thoughts about feeling like you had Mo and opportunity trying to outm people did you have those thoughts at any other time other on this day November no and um so do you still have those thoughts today no did you actually do anything to try to outsmart police or anything like that no I tried to be as helpful as possible for okay I'm going to restart the video at 2 minutes and 30 seconds when um when was the last time that you saw your girlfriend October 7 October 7s cirumstances of October 7th again um there was a a Jewish holiday called s t where uh we gathered at the synagogue um and and I saw her I exchanged hell and and that was um that was the extent of our interaction and did did you see Samantha on October 20th Sam how do you spell s m w more Sor okay Sam wall yeah uh do you know her dat a break or how old she is she was 40 she's 40 what does she look like she's beautiful yeah white female black fale long leg ha you you oober 7 [Music] yes remember what do you remember I don't remember doing anything okay do you have a phone number for Sam phone have you talked to her at all since you asked saw [Music] no what makes you [Music] think simul Detroit he may hisf stop at four minutes and 29 seconds um there was some reference to you not remembering um when you when you said you you didn't remember what did I guess what did you mean by by that um that I had recollection of killing Sam um that that I again I I I was thinking I had convinced myself that that I had done this act but I I could recall nothing of it um at all and so is it is it that you couldn't remember the events of October 20th and October 21st or that you just couldn't remember anything about actually Haring s the the latter um I as I as I told the police on on October um I believe October 22nd I I had full recollection of what I was doing that night um in that case but I it just um on November 7th I could remember killing Sam so I was that's that's what my statement meant and um there was a reference that you made um about potentially having psychotic break and something about transal magne simulation is that the phrase and can you explain to the jury um what you me through sort of those words you spoke on that issue um again I I was trying to justify what was what was happening to me um it had never happened before I didn't understand what was going on um why uh I was I was thinking these thoughts um in addition to taking the medications that that we had we have spoken of earlier um over that summer I had uh um I had undergone a uh a medical treatment where you receive pulses of of uh magnetic stimulation to the brain um in order to try to releve the depression that I was feeling um it it didn't relieve any of the symptoms um I basically ended that in August um without any relief of the of the symptoms uh again I was trying to point to anything that that that could be causing how I was feeling at that moment because it was it was an it was utterly abnormal for for me to feel that way and so um how long did you go that treat for several months I believe it was from from June June through August and um during that time did you have any type of sympoms consist Psy no toally that perod of time yes and after did you experience any symptoms consistent psycho no I'm going to resume the video at minutes and 29 seconds he Liv in Detroit he's just Psy break he doesn't remember anything so what's your name Buddy yeah got it it's Sam wall she's fale her pH number his phone Detroit um because he's ATT because he may have killed his girlfriend in Detroit he do not [Music] I'm going stop at minutes seconds did you hear the reference to your heart rate yes and is rate per something that would experience in of AAL State of Mind based on your experience no that is abnormal for me wall I don't have9 Detroit he was in his car when I pulled up and got out immedately and I'm going to stop at 7 minutes and 42 seconds um how how is it that you learned that I read it in the news [Music] you want to go you hey Jeff are you feeling a little more at ease are you feeling okay right now no okay we do have some paramedics here that pull up um you want to talk to them yes okay I guess good [Music] [Music] else like I don't want to do it the car is that the is the knife in the car what was used to stab her remember anything you might resarch your so we have [Music] your for [Music] for for at minutes ands minut 18 seconds start last [Music] at he says Striker probably and I know you mentioned that you had a mo earlier opportunity and I don't know what the third one is but I probably had that one too you because I was upset with her breaking up with [Music] me this year how long have you guys you guys have any issues up until then and I was taking magne brain stimulation treatments and I'm concerned that that's Som that combination made me do some kind of psychotic break where I don't remember anything I don't remember anything I swear I don't remember anything are youing I know it'sa do think I I don't I don't know how to explain it when did that happen this is my psychologist would you mind if I return the text message to my psychologist yeah SE [Music] [Music] remember see this 21 minutes and 3 seconds they're in New Zealand know that you said that you guys broken up in July and together noit what is what did she do for work name I'm going to stop at 28 minutes and approximately 30 seconds um at some point during this interaction did you get on the phone with somebody else yes I was on the phone with my uh psychologist and what was the reason for getting on the phone with your psychologist um so uh earlier in the the room uh in the hotel room I had had uh texted her saying that I was was freaking out um and she was in session with somebody so she wasn't available uh to speak with me but said that she would call me back when she was available okay and did she call you back when you were out there with the police that's correct okay and um during this this sort of latter part of the video um you know again approximately the 28 minute Mark into exhibit 28 um is your frame of mind change it all compared to how it was originally when you placed the 911 call I believe that that some of the feelings of panic had lessened um they they used somewhat my guess was that my my heart rate had had gone down a little bit and um were were you still at this point experiencing the feeling that you were possibly responsible for Sam's death yes I I was that yes okay and um when did that when did that delusion objection the when did that uh when did that feeling uh that you you had some sort of responsibility for her death when did that pass um it took several days okay and um did you spend some time in police custody after saying what was said in this in this video yes I did and um what day were you released from police custody I don't know I did on myself when I um it was it was that Friday afterwards the Friday after November 7th yes okay and um approximately how many days spend in in custody fewer than three okay um what was I guess going through your mind once you you said these things that we we saw in the the video I'm not sure how to answer that question um I I was was in a panic I was I was afraid that I had done something terrible that I couldn't remember um and and I didn't understand what was going on it was uh um yeah I believe now it was it was the product of a an adverse reaction to um medication and that thing causes delusions um there there was uh I asked you previously about the knife that was in your car where was that knife stored in your car um there was a small um not a container but a like a glove compartment that was that was below the left side of the steering wheel and it was stored right there with with an ID as well and um did you have any other uh pocket knives that you that you owned uh yes uh I had one pocket knife in my house and um what was the purpose of having owning that pocket your house um I used it for for camping and for uh opening packages that that came to the door I left it uh by the the doorway could open the boxes did you ever uh carry that knife if you were just kind of walking around out and about no um did you ever use that knife to hurt anybody no um you also mentioned that you had aort relating to your do in your car uh yes I after I I dropped her off at daycare before I left for Kazo um her leash was was in the car and um has your dog ever had any type of wounds that that led to bleeding yes uh she was uh attacked by a dog down the street that had gotten out of the house and uh and was moved on the side okay and um did um in terms of your car um when you went grocery shopping did you use your car or you you go on fo I typically would use my car and when you went grocer where would you your groceries in the trunk um did you ever you consume meat yes and if you were to purchase would meor the way from the grocery store to home um at your home did you have a uh a camera system um I I had a camera system that was uh non-operational okay and what was the uh what was the brand of that camera system that was an rlo camera system um when did you first uh obtain that camera system um shortly after I purchased the house and when was that in uh uh 2017 and um where were the cameras position in your at your house when you theam system so initially I only had one camera above the the front doorway um and then I I purchased a second camera for the the rear door and um at what point did you stop using that system um I believe that I I stopped using it um in uh 20 22 or 2021 um they they began to charge a service fee for monthly um detection of people and that was really what I was using it for to to detect if if somebody was was on the front porch and um or something like that and so without U without that feature it was wasn't as valuable and I didn't want to didn't want to pay that Fe and so um in October of 2023 uh were you was that camera system operational no the batteries had run out of all the cameras um so the Camas they have been on at all during that month of October no um to do you uh as far as you know how where were the Where were the cameras located in your home they were still mounted uh one above the front door and one above the back door did you personally ever take the cameras down no um if you had seen that the cameras came down you know how that happened no at some point um after you initially police um did you uh speak with a lawyer yes and when did you first speak with a lawyer um I believe it was uh sometime uh the week the week after uh the 22nd and what was your purpose for without getting into anything privilege what was your Purp seeking out a lawyer at that time yeah a family friend had recommended that I speak with an attorney to help me uh navigate the the situation and so I I reached out um to Allison ker um she I I described to her uh what I had told the police uh my involvement and she said that I objection to whatever she said here yeah without getting into I guess what she said um at that in that initial um sort of conversation you had did you did you engage her Services no um and um eventually did you engage your services yes and um was that before after the the sort of uh video that we saw um from uh November 7 that was after November 7th okay and um somebody said that your parents hired her for you would that be accurate uh yes and so your your parents arranged for her to to to be to to sort of represent you uh yes at that time I was in um in detention and so so they they made the arrangements yes okay and um if somebody said that you confessed killing saman w par would that be accurate I'm sorry can you repeat that if somebody said that you confessed to your parents that you killed Samantha wool would that be accurate no um did you have any discussions with your parents about what happened in cou only after after that the mention that night okay and what was your sort of State of Mind by by that point that you discussed things with your pars um it was was was improving but I was I was still uh was in great shape for several days after um after my my panic attack thank you sir nothing further now you indicated that you were working for Striker correct yes okay as a data scientist that's correct okay um and as a data scientist do you do a lot of analyzing of different numbers different details yes would you describe yourself as a a pragmatist sure yes okay so you deal with things sensibly and realistically correct in a practical way correct yes okay now while you were in K missou you indicated that you had smoked some marijuana correct that's correct okay did you smoke a joint no you smoked you vape yes okay would you agree that that is more potent than maybe smoking a joint I couldn't say okay how often do you smoke marijuana uh twice a week twice a week okay and you and when you smoke marijuana twice a week you would agree that it increases your heart rate correct I I couldn't say you couldn't say okay do you feel paranoia at times when you smoke marijuana uh in the past I have yes okay so this wouldn't have been the first time you felt paranoia correct this was different but you felt some type of paranoia correct you would agree to that yes yes and prior to you calling kalamazo uh police department you started to analyze whether or not you had the right to be at work correct yes uh yes my my thoughts were around that yes okay and you started to think about what you what you actually brought correct yes and you thought about what you could have brought correct yes okay and you started to analyze and came to a conclusion your mind that what you brought wasn't sufficient to what you could have brought correct you would agreed with that right I you know at that point my yes or no yes okay and you being the pragmatist that you are you did it in the very practical way of breaking down the situation about your outfit correct no at that point I was I was not being very practical I I I was panicking okay but you gave some thought to it you gave some substantial amount of time to thinking about whether or not you brought the right outfit correct yes I was thinking about that and then you moved on to whether or not you would get along with your program director right uh that was not my thought no didn't you indicate yesterday on Direct that you started to worry about whether or not you would have an issue or get along with your program director didn't you say that uh not that I would get along with my program director that that I I was I was concerned about a meeting with with that individual okay so you were concerned about a meeting with your program director and in your mind you started to play out what could be some possible outcomes of that particular meeting right yes okay and you thought you did it in a a practical way no I was panicking at that oh you were panicking yes but you would agree that you gave some substantial amount of time to thinking about what could happened in your meeting with your program director correct yes okay and you went about various scenarios in your head of what could be the possible outcome of different conversations correct yes okay and after that you started to think about what had happened on October 20th going into October 21st correct about what happened to Samantha wall yes okay and you started to play in your head the different scenarios of or the scenario of what happened no you didn't no but but you did call 911 correct that's correct so in your mind you had to come to some conclusion before you call 911 of what happened that would be a fair statement wouldn't it no so you just out the blue didn't think anything about it and just called 911 is that what you're saying because you made some you would agree you made some very particular statements to 911 correct yes and prior to you making those statements you had to think about it before you said it right you would agree to that right yes okay so be clear you prior to 911 being called you replayed in your mind the incident from October 20th to October 21st of the death of Samantha War correct no I there was I did not replay anything in my mind I I you went over again I couldn't remember the situation and and so and that was that was my fear was that I I had nothing to replay I had nothing to okay thank you now you did indicate to the police that you were unhappy that she broke up with you you heard that correct I believe I said I was upset okay you you you upset correct okay okay and you didn't tell the police that prior to that particular day particularly I mean on October 22nd you didn't tell them that you were upset did you did you I I don't recall using those words okay or you didn't say anything of the sort you you let the police believe that oh you were fine with the breakup you didn't have you didn't care about it at all that's how you relay your feelings to the police on October 22nd 2023 is it I believe that's a misrepresentation of you never said that you were mad did you I never said I was mad you never said you were upset did you I I don't believe I said I was upet you didn't say you were disappointed did you I I don't remember the words that that I Ed but I I would okay so have you had an opportunity to watch that interview prior to today of October 22nd yes no okay but you had an opportunity to watch and listen to your 911 call right yes and when you listen to that 911 call you talked to your lawyer too didn't you about that your lawyer was present when you listened to that call didn't you yes and y'all went over scenarios on how you should testify wasn't it you had you role played this very situation didn't you yes and you were suggested to answer certain look at me you would answer you were suggested to answer certain questions a certain way weren't you tell it we did prepare a testimony yes okay and you were giv suggestions on how you should answer certain questions correct yes okay so when the prosecutor ask you today what was going through your mind that's not your feelings you were told to say those particular answers W no oh you weren't told to say that you weren't suggested to say the answer to those specific questions that he asked I was told to say the truth oh you so that's the only thing you did in role player is say oh this might be the question tell the truth that's that's what you're saying that's not true is it tell the truth now you were told to save certain things to certain questions you know you weren't give suggestions you just said you were giving suggestions on what to say are you are you are you working that back now now are you attempting to walk that back I wasn't told to say certain things there were suggestions as to how I could respond to to various questions okay and you use those very suggestions today didn't you yes and you also watched that body cam footage prior to today correct yes and you wased it with your lawyer correct yes and you were given suggestions on how to answer questions relative to that video weren't you yes and you had extensive preparation prior to the day didn't you I'm not sure what you mean by EXT you had more than one session I'll say that start there you had multiple different sessions didn't you yes they would and in these sessions it wouldn't just watch the video and tell the truth there were actually this is how you should answer and this is how you should not answer isn't that true yes now when you you were arrested eventually in cazo you were taken to their Detention Center correct uh I was taking to the police station the police Center Police Station okay and at the police station you call your mother and your father correct uh that's not entirely accurate okay the police called them and they put them on speaker phone and you were at the table that's correct okay and you were instructed to not even talk to the police right yes so when you say that oh I was trying to be truthful and I tried to help the police that that's not entirely true is it is it sir I'm not I'm not sure I you're not sure if you were being honest with the police or not and you were trying to be forthcoming with them I'm not certain how to answer that question on truthfully truthfully yes on the 22nd I was truthful okay after that after the the after the 22nd you weren't being truthful with the police or forthcoming were you on on November 7th yes November 7th November 8th you were not being truthful in forthcoming with the police were you on November 7th I was having a panic attack and okay delions from medication just be clear just be clear when you were at the police station I mean I agree you were being trueful at the 91 call I would agree to that what I'm stating is once you were in the police station and after you instructed to not talk to the police you were not being forthcoming and truthful after that directive I think we need to start that question over again because I never said I agreed that that being truthful on the 911 call okay when you were in the police station you remember this correct yes okay after you got a directive to not talk to the police you remember that right yes okay after that time you were not truthful or forthcoming with the police after that you would agree to that I'm check a after that directive you were no longer forthcoming with the police that's correct okay and you were no longer truthful with the police I I don't know that I could say that I was I was truth if I was not forthcoming I I didn't say anything to the police after that point I mean you had conversations with them you you continued to talk so you would agree that you had conversations with the police after that directive you would agree with that right nothing substi you would agree that you had conversation after that directive with the police right nothing substan he saying nothing he's not ask he said did you have any conversations substantive of or otherwise in your opinion substantive or otherwise after that directive was made yes I I believe there was an officer that I was sitting with who tried to talk me down after I was panic attack that we discussed uh video games and music and uh I believe I was truthful in those conversations okay on the 22nd when asked if you engage in any other substances or or drugs you stay marijuana right on the 22nd of October correct yes and you stated that you didn't do any other drugs didn't you that's correct okay don't you have don't you take mushrooms uh I I have taken mushrooms in the back wasn't a a a large jar found in your house when a search war was executed of mushrooms I think it wasn't a large jar oh was it I guess you may not okay it might be a difference of opinion but a jar none the was it was a jar yes okay and it had mushrooms inside of it correct that's correct okay you never told the police you take mushrooms did you I attempted to take mushrooms to relieve my depression and no no I did not say that to that place okay thank you now you saying a lot of this delusion language you were told to say that weren't you no you were told to say you were having delusions wasn't no oh you weren't told to say that no oh are you a doctor yes are you a psychiatrist no did you diagnose yourself with having delusions no I have spoken with with psychiatrists about my situation I'll have you and they came to the conclusion that you were lying and this is a delusion huh that's what you're saying that's not true with it psychiatrist that I spoke with the p psychiatrist you spoke with never gave you any type of clinical opinion that based upon her expertise you were lying when you made that 911 call and you were having a delusion that never happened did it yes or no can can I explain it's a simple yes or no did did you ever get a clinical opinion did you ever get a clinical opinion from your psychiatrist that based upon her opinion the 911 call was a delusion and it was not based in fact did you get that opinion yes or no yes oh you got that opinion okay and when did you get that opinion uh afterwards I don't have the exact date oh okay did she submit that to writing uh I have I have a written statement from a a u ofm trained Psy psychiatrist that indicates that um those conditions that we speak of on the seventh could easily be a a delusion be could easily believe yes could easily be there was no conclusion that based upon their opinion that they felt it was a delusion and that your statements on 911 were false that was my question sorry repat you never had an opinion from any psychiatrist any clinical therapist or medical provider that their opinion was that you were lying when you made this 911 call or was not fact-based I'm just to the C okay to be clear you have never received any type of opinion from a psychiatrist therapist medical provider that it was their opinion that the November 7th phone call that you made to Calo was in fact not based in reality but a delusion I received uh I've received from two two separate psychiatrists information that that indicates that those were delusions that that was their opinion that those were delusions that's corre okay would you happen to have those psychiatrist information yes you want my psychiatrist number for at all right for the jury spe for [Music] may be seated it's for [Music] [Music] my [Music] [Music] spe prob this is I'm just running in here so it's not that's [Music] [Music] want for [Music] she the do here okay to expect e to for e e set without he e f e for e for e the for all spe [Music] 2 good Dominic deia I'm beh the people and Brian Brown on behalf of Mr Jackson Banos all right thank you I your yes yes um so while you were in the Calo police station um called your mother or you had a conversation with your mother correct my father okay you don't remember your mother answering the call when the telephone was directed the phone call was directed towards her I believe we uh tried to reach her but my my father picked up you don't remember telling your mother to contact that attorney that they have for you you don't remember that yes okay so you had a conversation with your mother correct I I don't remember who it was but I remember asking them to contact My ATT okay okay and there was a question proposed to you are they holding you right remember that I don't recall you don't recall okay um if you were to hear this conversation would it probably refresh your memory yes okay um okay okay now if I could have you direct your attention to the screen behind you do you recognize this individual who is that that's you okay uh and would you agree that this would accurately depict the conversation you had while you were in Kalamazoo's police station on November the 8th 2023 for sorry I think I have to exit out and go back in the Jud sorry TR sorry for you can I can't find [Music] I'm starting at 216 and 38 seconds into the video hi Mom this is Jeff hi where are you I'm uh I had a panic attack and ended up police station okay um if you could please contact that attorney for me yeah attorney I don't know I I can use a psychiatrist yes I did they haven't said anything yeah I understand Public Safety headquarters can you me anide where is no it's I I don't know I was driven here so you would agree that you spoke to your mother yes okay and you told her to call the police I mean not police but I'm sorry attorney yes okay uh you would agree that your mother never asked what are you being arrested for right you have agree to that right yes your mother never asked what are you being detained for right yes okay your mother already knew right because you had a conversation with your mother prior to you called in the police correct no oh you didn't you went over to Chicago the week before this particular day isn't that true uh yes I believe so okay and you saw your parents that weekend yes okay and you stated earlier that the attorney you had was recommended by a friend of yours right that's correct okay and then you also say that after the date of October 22nd you never retain or Services didn't you say that that's correct okay so when you say the attorney you got for me at this point in time she according to your direct testimony she wasn't even your attorney that's correct right but you told them to get the attorney they had previously got for you or had got for you at this particular time right I don't believe you don't believe that that's what I said okay so you didn't tell your mother or father the weekend before to get in contact with your attorney the weekend before no you didn't you knew exactly what you were being arrested for in DET I I knew what I had said and I knew that it was um yes I knew uh that I have said um some incriminating things yes okay and you knew what you were being arrested for and detained for right yes okay and as a matter of fact an officer asked you like hey do you know what you're being detained for and you said yes told him yes right so it was no surprise to you on why you were being arrested right I was I was having delusions and and okay you didn't have a delusion when the officer asked you do you know why you're being detained you didn't have a delusion there did you no you you were you gave him a very lucid answer correct you would agree I'm I'm not sure when when this happened okay if you saw it maybe could have possibly are you are you saying it did not happen I I I I don't recall you don't recall scroll to 307 and 20 seconds for the record I'm playing at 307 and 11 seconds what you know okay I'm sure you would agree that you seem pretty Lucid in your answer you would agree to that right you would agree with that I I believe that I was having difficulty for several days afterwards okay you would agree that your answer was a lucid answer yes okay you would agree that you didn't have any rapid breathing at this point in time right that's correct you're not hyperventilating correct you're not crying or shaking right uh at this point at at this point in time right you agree with that if you want to play the tape back I was crying sh prior to this I'm asking when this question was proposed to you you did not cry when you answered the question right yes okay you understood the question right yes you never said or implied that you didn't understand what his question was right you didn't imply that you didn't understand why you were being detained right because you had an opportunity to think about what his question was before you even answered it right and you had a question you had an opportunity to think about why you were being detained before he even asked you about it you were thinking about that weren't you that's okay prior to him even asking you do you know why you're being detained you were thinking about why you were sitting in a police station at that very time you thought about it didn't you so you're asking me I had to predict that he was going to ask me that question I'm asking before he even walked into the room you were sitting in your own mind thinking about how you landed into the police station correct I was trying to understand what had happened to me when I was sitting in that room I was trying to understand what had G on to to cause me this utterly abnormal behavior that I had never experienced before had never experienced since believe was caused by an adverse reaction to this medication now when you say adverse behavior that you've never experienced are you talking about the actions that happened on October the 20th those actions is that is that what you were thinking about no or you wasn't thinking about that at all that didn't that didn't cross your mind at all you you weren't replaying in your mind anything about October the 20th leading into the 21st at all all that time you were sitting in that police station is that what you're saying you didn't think about it at all again if you listen to that tape I have zero recollection of of anything that happened so you say related to those events so you say my question is while you were sitting in that police station were you thinking about what happened on October the 20th or 21st were you going through in your mind about anything about the 20th or the 21st no you weren't you were thinking about losing your job though weren't you know I I was again I was trying to understand what you were thinking about losing your job right no you weren't okay IID like to go to 4 38 and 19 seconds you heard yourself right you said you're going to lose your job you're going to lose I'm sorry sorry yes I'm sorry so you heard yourself say I'm going to lose my job I'm going to lose everything right yes so you were sitting there thinking about losing your job right yes because you knew why you were there correct you knew why you was there yes and you knew what the consequences of your actions would be didn't you I need sitting in a police station after sir did you know what the consequences of your actions would be yes or no which actions or what led you to sit in that seat and make that comment about losing your job I'm sorry say you thought about the actions that led you to sit in that seat on video and make a statement that you're going to lose your job you're going to lose everything you knew you knew what those consequences were right again I was having an adverse reaction to the medication and I was having okay panic attacks I was you can see there that I I'm not in your words Lucid you you seem pretty Lucid to me for you to for for for you to form a conclusion in your mind that you're going to lose your job you you formed that conclusion didn't you I was I was panicking sir you form that conclusion that you're going to lose your job correct right that you could potentially lose your job you said that right yes I did say that and you know what you were being detained in arrested for right I I knew what I had said yes you knew what you were being detained for right and arrested for correct I I knew what I had said and you knew that you made the connection in your mind that based upon what you said and done it could lead or possibly in your mind not even possibly but in your mind you're going to lose your job based upon your action now when did you uh begin this new medication I believe I started it so uh there's a period that I had to ramp down the previous medication and I began to ramp up uh the aity I believe I took it for several days um at the beginning of of November and taking double the dosage on the I to double the dosage on the sixth the sixth of what month November November now you spoke to the police earlier on October the 22nd correct yes okay and at that point in time you w showing any emotions were you with the police you weren't crying when you were talking about Samantha's death on October the 22nd were you I I did not cry okay okay you weren't showing any emotions were you close that be fine with me you you would agree that your reaction to you thinking you would lose your job was a lot more emotional than you were when you spoke to detectives on October the 22nd the day after or the day you say that you heard she died you weren't there at the funeral not my question my question was yeah I was emotional at the funeral okay and you were emotional when you were thinking about losing your job right you would agree to that yes and you would agree that the emotion level that you displayed about thinking about losing your job was much greater than the emotion you displayed when you spoke to detectives on October the 22nd again I was going in and out of having panic attacks on November 7th and I was having difficulty with my thoughts and emotions okay at that time so that would be a yes you play you displayed a lot more emotions about losing your job than you did when speaking about Samantha that would be a yes right when speaking about a Samantha in the police station October 22nd yes now St that you have a history of depression that's correct okay and when Samantha broke up with you multiple times I'm sure that didn't help your depression right it was difficult it was difficult it added to your depression right and you weren't happy that she added to your depression you weren't happy were you I'm not sure how to answer that question were you happy that she added to your depression I was unhappy that she broke up with me and you you blamed her for the breakup right it wasn't your decision right um I I I blame myself for the breakup I but you try to you try to convince her that you guys should be together after you broke up right that's correct and when you try to convince her in your mind it was her decision and she was the reason why you broke up right I think those are separate things I think it was yes it was her decision but it I believe that I was the reason that that we broke up did you change anything I tried you tried what did you try to change I tried to call her more she wanted more uh physical touching so I tried that um I brought her flowers I and she rejected all of that despite you doing all of those different actions she still rejected you didn't she I think rejector is a strong word she didn't she didn't embrace you back into her arms and and Y live happy ever after that didn't happen did it we we did get to get back together but ultimately she broke up with you again correct yes despite you stepping out of in your mind your comfort zone doing things that made you uncomfortable she still rejected you yes again rejection I believe is is is not the right word to use for what happened she didn't get she didn't take you back despite you doing all those different actions she broke her with you again correct yes and I I understood I wrote a text to that effect saying that I understood okay you weren't happy were though I was sad okay now did you and Samantha ride bikes together uh no I believe we never got the chance to ride bikes together you never got the chance and how long were you together for for a year for a year you're you're an avid bike rider aren't you yes okay and Samantha's a bike rider herself right yes and sometimes she rides bikes to baell out right that's correct sometimes she rides bikes to ba ey with other guys right yes okay and not you right yes okay that didn't make you happy knowing that didn't to my knowledge she rode her bike to Bell with Paul is that the only guy you knew about yes now Samantha wasn't a person who would share Emojis with you did she I don't recall if she shared Emojis with me you don't recall you you recall that question being asked of you by the police and you said no right okay and it was the truth when you said it though right cuz you were being honest right yes okay did you know that her to share Emojis with other guys like hearts um I knew she shared it heart with with her friend Laura did you know about a guy named David Wilkinson no did you know about a guy named Aaron pergant no okay did you know a guy about a guy named Robert or Bob Becker no so you didn't know that she was intimate with these guys no now you would go over to Samantha's house from time to time correct yes okay now isn't it true that to your knowledge Samantha never fell asleep on her couch isn't that true uh that's false I fell asleep on the couch with her so you're saying that you never told the police that you never fell asleep on the couch with her is that what you're saying sir be honest the hon is that we fell asleep on the couch together okay for sorry bear with me I have to start this gench video player for for the record I'm starting at 728 and Le 26 seconds sometimes but um yeah there wasn't not not much of a bedtime ritual no would she falls through on a couch sometimes um not while we were together um s you heard yourself right I interpreted that question as as would she fall asleep by herself on the couch I you never F you never followed up with a statement saying that hey we fell asleep together on the couch you never said that did you you're right and you understood the question right you understood what she meant when she said did she ever fall asleep on the couch you know what that means right ever with or without you you would you would agree that's what it means right you got me I'm not trying to get you I just want the truth that's what I want the truth was that in that in that case I believe that they're referring to her sleeping by herself on the couch okay but you never clarifi what was going through your mind and said hey she never fell asleep alone but we fell asleep together you never said that you're right thank you now you have a Volkswagen iOS EOS EOS okay is that equipped with GPS uh it has navigation navigation okay does it have any type of maybe emergency features sort of like OnStar no it doesn't have OnStar or anything or or something similar to OnStar where you can push a button and speak to a live operator or Emergency Services No And as far as you know was that GPS functional yes the navigation system work the navigation system works now I guess you indicated that on Saturdays you Tred not to work or Labor uh that's right okay but didn't you tell the police the Saturday of her death you went to ER market right that's correct okay would you classify that work no that's not work going shopping I meant work for for pay oh for pay labor wouldn't you classify labor as having to the opposite of rest so if you want to get into my theology no I'm just asking you a certain question I don't want to get to your theology I'm just asking you a question should be I mean and you also after you left the Easter Market you stated that you then went to the credit union right or attempted to go to the credit I went home and then went to the credit okay you went home to put put the food up that's right okay then you attempted to go to the credit union that's right and then you stated that you then went to yoga that's correct and you worked out there correct at yoga would you agree to that yes I practi now you also stated that you went to the synagogue that that Saturday when you allegedly stated that you first heard that Samantha was had died correct you went to the synagogue correct yes later that afternoon yes um who was there who did you see um Sher Heisler Zack Rosen Robinson Kim are some of the names that come in mind first okay now the Friday that of the 20 the 20th you stated that you were at home allegedly listening to a podcast uh after going to S podcast okay what device did you listen to this podcast on on my phone on your phone okay you know approximately what time you listen to this podcast at somewhere between 8 and 10 I believe 8 and 10 okay two hour podcast um I think it was shorter than that and after the podcast went off what if anything did you do I listen to a record a record okay you can't remember record you listen to right uh I don't remember the specific record but it was one by Jason do you typically turn off your location when you're at home no you don't but so you typically don't do it but sometimes have you ever turned up your location no okay now let's go back to some of the statements that you made on your 911 call um you stated that you know you were in trouble remember that yes okay and when you said that you were referring to the death of Samantha weren't you yes I convinced myself that that um I do convince yourself okay and like and you stated earlier you're a pragmatist right you thinking a very analytical methodical meticulous way correct okay and would it be fair to say that you're not a person who's easily persuaded sure okay so when you say you convince yourself that would take a lot of thinking about a situation in order to convince yourself that something happened You' agree to that right or or it could be caused by a delusion that happened from the medication that I was Tak you never mentioned this word at all to the police delusion you said you were having a panic attack you never said this word delusion at all on the 911 phone call or while you were in cazo police station right I believe that at some point I refer to myself as having a psychotic break I I'm not sure that I had the right language for what was was going on with me so you agree that this word delusion was given to you to use in this particular set again we agreed that I'm not that kind of doctor and and that appropriate doctor has given me an appropriate language okay um and and and your attorneys and your attorneys gave you that same word to use correct no my psychiatrist so you're so you're saying your attorney never told you to use the word delusion while you're sitting in his chair be honest we we dis we discuss the language okay okay thought so thank you um is not a question thank you now the next statement you made was you felt that you were trying to out smart people you said that didn't you I did say that yes okay and prior to today you were told to say what you allegedly meant by that you were given a suggestion on how to answer that question weren't you no that was never that was never spoke about during your practice cross examination or direct examination with your attorney no okay so every other aspect of that phone call was rehearsed except that very detail is that what you're saying a number of aspects were were discussed but I don't believe we we discuss that aspect you don't believe so your memory could be bad right right you could be mistaken correct or just don't want to tell the truth correct are you accusing me of not telling the truth I'm asking you a question is it possible no it sounded like you were accusing me of not tell the truth is it possible that you're mistaken that you forgot that that particular subject matter was discussed and rehearsed prior to you coming to testify today I don't believe we discussed that specifically so what you meant by that is you're trying to outsmart people is you knew you left your phone at home on the day of October the 21st or the 20th going to the 21st correct I left my phone at home because I was at home okay when you made that statement obviously you had some thought in your mind about you're trying to outsmart somebody right you didn't just make this statement without carefully analyzing and thinking about it before you said it right you meant something by it right yes okay and you were speaking in reference to Samantha Mall's murder correct yes and at no point in time that you ever make a statement that contradicted it you never talked to the police after that and made a statement says I meant this by it did you I'm not sure I understand after November the 8th you never made and you you never had another written statement that you signed by the police indicating what you meant by that particular statement right no what I if I were to have to if I if I were to make an additional statement that would have not been true if you would have made an additional statement other than what you said it wouldn't have been the truth right no that's not what I said I I if is that what you said any additional statement would have not been the truth I told the truth okay but the initial statement that I gave the police but you made another statement on 911 right that's a statement came out of your mouth right it it came out of your mouth correct again I sir did it come out of your mouth it did come out okay so you would agree that it's a statement correct yes but not the truth so is that the only time you've ever in your mind not told the truth is when you allegedly made this up about what happened to Samantha that the only time you didn't tell the truth in your life or recently okay I'll be more specific you would you consider yourself honest person yes okay do you always just make things up that didn't happen no okay so you're saying that this is the only time that you could remember that you made up something this is the only time that I was having an adverse reaction to a medication so so so did that medication make you visualize something in your mind that happened no again as I as I said on the tape I couldn't remember anything related to the events are you familiar with repressed memories um I've heard the term I'm not familiar I wouldn't say I'm familiar with them you've heard the term that wasn't discussed before you never discussed like possibly having a repressed memory like your mind forgot about certain key details or at least tried to forget about certain details of a traumatic event you never sought that out you didn't try to get to the the truth of the matter and say okay maybe I had a traumatic maybe I had a repression of a traumatic event you never tried to figure out if that was the case in this particular situation um as far as I know that's you know that no I I I never tried to look into whether it over repress memory no oh it was just more convenient for you of course to take the it's a delusion Road versus trying to get down to the truth of the matter to see in fact was this a repressed memory of a act that actually happened for for for you apprach e now um you stated that you undertook trans cranial magnetic stimulation that's correct do you know whether or not any effect on your memory as far as a side effect potentially I don't know you don't know that were any of the side effects discussed with you uh yes okay and you just don't remember if that was one of them correct that's correct you also stated on the 91 call that no one was arrested for the death of Samantha W at that particular time to your understanding corre that's correct okay were you keeping up with the case uh yes okay and how were you keeping up with the case the news through the news you also made a statement on the 911 call what have I done remember that yes and prior to you making that statement you replayed October 20th to the 21st before making that statement cor no oh I'm sorry now this knife that was in your car you indicated that this was a seat belt cutter it had uh a slot that had uh for for coming seat belts yes okay and that's one of the reasons why you had it so you say correct yes and uh it also had a and to break class yes and me how long did you have this KN for years I I believe I I look back and and I have a receive for 2015 now were you provided any additional cell phone as part of your employment with Strikers no okay did you have any Google Voice or anything alternate numberb uh I do have a Google Voice uh number yes did you let the authorities know about that goog go Voice number no and why do you use this Google Voice um because it um it transcribes messages for me and sends them to my email so some a voice message I get an email about it okay so you receive phone calls on this Google Voice I receive phone calls through my phone and it trans it works to transcribe those phone calls and send them to my email in Google Voice you can also use it to send text messages correct uh if that's the case I've never done that after the death of Samantha you had a bonfire at your house correct that's correct and the theme was kumaya I don't believe there was a theme was a theme you didn't call it K by no and where was this bonfire at in relation to was it in the backyard yes do you have a fire pit uh yes okay is this a store bought fire pit or is it a did you make it out of rocks uh it's a storeall fire storeall fire pit do you always keep this fire pit outside when it's not in use yes now you invited some other people correct that's correct okay would it be fair to say that before your guest arrived you already had the fire started no did you start toy yourself uh I believe uh a friend J Gman started the fire while I was still preparing g a z m n first name EV G uh n i y a I believe in relation to the I might be pronouncing mispronouncing it a is that the name of the prescription a Val a Val okay um you stated that you would you didn't have any side effects initially correct that's correct so you went from having no side effects to what you describe as something that clouded your memory of what happened I believe that's not how I described the side effects at all no but you did testify on Direct that allegedly you did not commit the murder and you convinced yourself correct that's what you stated right that's right okay and you stated the reason why you felt you convinced yourself was because of the side effect from this prescription correct that's correct okay so just to be clear you went from having no side effects to this medication trying to the side effect convincing yourself of do a murder yes okay thank you previous day thank you okay and prior to the police coming you told them that in fact you took all of your this is on November the 8 just to be clear in C Zoo you were staying at the Four Points Sherin correct yes and prior to the police coming you took all of your stuff out of the hotel correct that's correct because you knew you were about to go to jail correct I knew that I you knew you were about to go to jail correct I thought that I would go to the hospital you thought You' go to the hospital yes okay you were cognitive enough to have the State of Mind prior to calling 911 to go into the hotel room and remove all of your items correct I was already in the hotel room okay you had the State of Mind presence of Mind prior to calling 911 to remove all of your items from the hotel correct yes and not only remove the items from the hotel to take them to your automobile correct that's correct your panic attack didn't prohibit you from having that state of mind to remove your items from the hotel correct oh I'm sorry okay [Music] you are in the meeting now C for for spe spe for

Channel: FOX 2 Detroit

Views: 5,762

Keywords: news, detroit, fox 2 detroit, fox 2, michigan, local news, current events, michigan news, metro detroit, crime, murder, samantha woll, stabbing, live court, court tv

Id: eHxO9XQrEEU

Length: 152min 1sec (9121 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 18 2024