Saints And Martyrs of the Orthodox Church (Discovering Orthodox Christianity)

hello and welcome to discovering Orthodox Christianity I'm Stacy Spanos your host for the series of programs designed to explain the basic teachings of Orthodox Christianity we're honored to be filming at the beautiful Holy Cross Chapel on the campus of Hellenic College Holy Cross Greek Orthodox school of theology in the beautiful town of Boston in today's program we'll discuss the saints and martyrs of the Orthodox Church our distinguished panel includes Archdeacon of the ecumenical throne and special advisor to the ecumenical office of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America Reverend dr. John Chris agus also dr. James SCAD Rose Michael G and Anastasia Cantona's professor of Byzantine Studies and professor of early Christianity at Hellenic College Holy Cross Greek Orthodox school of theology welcome to both of you and thank you for being here dr. Skid Row's let's begin with you in simple terms what is a saint who can be a saint so st. Paul in his letters to the early churches that he established when he addressed the Christians to whom he wrote he frequently used the word is in the plural he called them Saints so he addressed the early Christian community in Corinth with the title of Saints and so in that sense we're all called to be Saints we're all called to be holy and that word I use is a really important term it's not something that he just pulls out of the air it has a long history in in in in the Hebrew religion in in the Hebrew Bible in the sense that God is the one who's holy and now you're calling people holy that's pretty scary thought right but Israelites consider themselves the holy people of God as well and so for Paul it's a continuation of that the Christian community is a continuation of ancient Israel for him and for those early Christian followers he's calling them to act as if you are representatives or as you live a life of Christ or a holy life so that in some sense were all called to be Saints now over the centuries and over the years certain individuals like in any context I guess rise above others of us and the church recognizes that we recognize people who have made contribution to have lived lives of sanctity but I like to tell my students that a saint is someone who hears the Word of God and acts upon it as we all hear the word of God but do we really hear it so what did we act on it though so what is the difference between a saint and a martyr obviously a martyr or somebody who loses their life in their faith sure do they have any similarities differences they do in the sense that in the counsel of Yosi in 1642 Mae came up with sort of this formula that said if we're gonna recognize a saint we're gonna recognize the say to has Orthodox faith who lived a pious life or died the ultimate sacrifice paid the ultimate sacrifice for their faith and also that they taught that were able to teach the faith and those martyrs are Saints but not obviously every saint is a martyr and so the church recognized those people who gave their blood for the message of the gospel and we consider those martyrs and really in some sense the martyrs were almost the first Saints you'd call the Apostles the first Saints but in some sense it was really those early Christian martyrs and most of the Apostles died a martyr death a martyr's death anyway well they're done let me ask you how does someone become a saint do they set out with that as their ultimate goal or is it something that's determined after they've passed one way as Jim has just mentioned and dr. skid-row says in fact this is this is his specialty of study and so I think it's wonderful to hear from him exactly how these categories of saints exist in our church martha's are almost yeah automatically Saints and one way you can become a saint is becoming a martyr but the word martyr is a broader term than just someone who loses his life or gives his life or her life in the name of Christ or for the church two of the most beautiful early texts in the early third century on martyrdom are written by Italian and origin of Alexandria and both of these writers Fathers of the Church lived they were born and died within the period of persecution of martyrs and they would say the goal in your life should be to become a martyr both of these Fathers of the Church actually died of old age not of martyrdom but martyrdom was something that the early Christians were ready to become they lived as if they could die at any moment for Christ they lived ready to surrender their life the way their Lord gave his life for them so yes I think the goal is to become a saint and is that through your actions is it through your writing through your saying it's through everything that one does do you mention the Council of Yazzie but the same notion of holiness and sanctity we find in our liturgy where we recognize that God alone is holy one alone is Lord one alone is holy and yet we too are holy if we somehow participate in that divine life the phrase just before Holy Communion every Sunday in our churches grows woman let us pay attention because the holy things are now here for the holy people of God so there's a sense in which when we are open to God's divine grace we are already potentially Saints do you have to be a theologian to become a saint can it be me can it be us sure absolutely and in fact if it can't be you and me then really what's the message what's the purpose of the Christian message anyway and his father John said a moment ago that term martyr is in Greek means witness and as origin and and Tertullian mentioned in their text son martyrdom we're all called to be witness so I said a bit earlier not all Saints are martyrs but I guess in the larger context of that term witness they are all Saints are witnesses to the gospel message to the person of Christ as all Christians ought to be you know there are no armchair Christians and so there so you can't be an armchair saint either father John what process does the church have in place to name a saint there is a process which is I would say less rigid than the process most of us are familiar with in the Western Church certainly in the Roman Catholic Church and there are texts that speak of blamelessness of faith for instance or acquisition of virtue or of all the virtues readiness to die for Christ to give one's life for Christ and even manifestation of signs of miracles but none of these are set in stone and certainly the last one in particular I don't think we need miracles for the proclamation of a saint the way for instance the Roman Catholic Church would normally want one or two signs that have been objectively ratified and proved in order for someone to be proclaimed a saint in our church there's a general almost the word that you'll find in the documents is the conscience of the church is what basically comes to acknowledge and accept the saintliness of a certain man or woman it's not something every 20 years they gather to say are there any Saints this past decade no it's not periodical and it's not deliberate it states if there is an acknowledgment by the conscience of the church it's something that brews within the hearts of the the faithful one document says it's the ecclesiastical conscience of the Shepherd's the leaders of the church and the Shepherd the faithful and what point then do they gather and say oh yes we like dr. Skid Row's for sainthood it's not a popularity vote and if it was and John Chrysostom for instance would never have made it he died in exile it's not a pole like the Rasmussen poll in fact I would say where there is noise and people pushing for someone to be recognized the st. that's probably not the area where sanctity is being revealed usually too quiet almost a silent brewing which the church then comes and simply acknowledges formally in what's called an act of the Synod Ora atone but there are saints that may not have been even recognized formally by the church for instance I remember as a young student in in Greece attending a conference in 1981 when since Simeon the new the sentiment of Thessalonica was proclaimed a saint by the ecumenical Patriarchate and or acknowledged recognized as a saint in 1981 this is a 1415 century writer that everyone I remember the surprise of most people at their conference that he wasn't a saint we all thought he was so there's there's the formal process is not necessarily the most important process so you'll have saints that are recognized regionally but not necessarily everywhere you have saints that I recognized everywhere like Saint Nick tarios for instance whose relics are spread to every Church of Saint Nick areas throughout the world one I would say one important part of this formal recognition process was established in 1931 at the akuma Nicole Patriarchate and then reaffirmed under the last ecumenical patriarch the late patriarch Demetrius in 1988 where it was the recognition was given a liturgical perspective and so now when a saint is recognized that acknowledged the saint by the Patriarchate the term or the act of recognition is actually read aloud in church as opposed to just issue dr. day father John has rightfully and purposely used the term recognition because in the Western Church we use that the Western Church uses title canonization we sounds very formal and very legalistic but in the Orthodox Church in the Greek tradition it's another naughty cease so acknowledgement/recognition and in the Russian tradition it's glorification so Saints are persons are glorified and they're recognized in the Orthodox tradition and it's not this hard and fast legalistic approach I've got to have X number of miracles etc etc because things are not made Saints are recognized you recognize sometimes after a period of time sometimes even during their life but the formal Proclamation will come later after their death some Saints have been proclaimed Saints a year after they die it's an Gregory Palamas for instance right well you could fill a storybook with the lives of the Saints and I'm fascinated to hear some of the more interesting ones I'm sure they're all interesting but doctor scatter so if you can get give us a brief some brief insight into some of the more colorful ones sure so one of the most colorful Saints I think is Simeon the sty light Saint Simeon this style light lived in the 5th century we have three historical accounts of his existence at least or stories being told about him all of them are eyewitness accounts and we have lots of other accounts of him that are sort of tangential no question about historicity no question about what he did he ascended a pillar of about 40 feet in height in the desert outside of Antioch Syria and stayed there for more than 30 plus years and lived his life on this pillar now it sounds absurd that I was gonna say a pillar like a killer like a column like a column and in his lifetime he attracted hordes of pilgrims people would come and ask for his blessing for his spiritual wisdom for his intercession for his prayers after he's after he dies Antioch the city of Antioch wants his bones they want his body to come there they bury his body in Antioch but where his column was around the column they built this magnificent Church and in the center of the church is a column and so you have this huge stands to this day doesn't but we have the remains of it we have the column base we have this the church we have the sides of the church as well it's a massive complex and it remained as a pilgrimage site for centuries until after the coming of the Arab Muslims in the seventh century fascinating father John please tell us it speaks to the the role of the saint as a mediator between heaven and earth business man who he could be doing anything and you can you know criticize him for being antisocial and in fact is not because he's constantly receiving people constantly advising people constantly preaching to people from above this column but he he is a mediator between this earth and the conflicts that we face and the God that we ask for grace and favor and forgiveness from and there are many such saints there are many saints who lived in as against and Paul says in mountains and in dens and in the caves I strongly recommend that everyone visits once in their lifetime this is a definite bucket list to do Cappadocia with the Magnificent caves in Turkey and where these men and women monasteries and Hermits lived in silence sometimes totally unknown totally invisible there are Saints that we don't know about who keep alive this world so there are many fascinating stories such as sin simians and there are many ordinary stories we shouldn't just seek sanctity in the exceptional in the extraordinary very often there will be people who live very ordinary lives but who prayed constantly who loved their neighbor who helped the poor people are also fascinated by the stories of the martyrs because to think of somebody who's got so much conviction they are willing to die their faith relay a story to us doctor schedulers of somebody sure so the earliest martyrdom account that we have written about is Saint Polycarp of the the city of Smyrna in Asia Minor and that account comes to us in a letter and that letter was sent to one of the churches a church in Philippi in Greece and in that letter is this sort of description of how Polycarp was was put to death and here is this sort of normal very elderly bishop of the city of Smyrna not really causing any problems nothing magnificent about at least in the story as it's told to us nothing magnificent about his life but he's arrested for being a Christian it's illegal to be a Christian in the second century he's brought to the to the center of the city of Smyrna amongst amidst a group of people and he's burned to death now there's a little miraculous things that happened while he's burned to death but he has burned to death and that is one way you could have been put to death in the second century and again nothing really unusual about it but there's our first early example of his witness which the Christians recognized his his saintliness and his ability to stand up for the Christian faith that once a year and even in this letter we're told that once a year they gathered at the spot where they buried him to commemorate that event in his life that death and there's one of those first instances where we started to see the Christian community gathering to remember those great heroes of their community of the past father John we're talking a lot about saints and martyrs from the second century 7th century do we have any modern-day saints that's a good question and the answer is yes most definitely people often aren't aware that I work very closely with my privilege to work closely with is all holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and I know for instance that just in the last 22 years or so of his patriarchal tenure there have been over 30 official terms or acts of the Synod recognizing Saints recognizing a total of over 225 Saints not all of the modern some of the modern some of them older that don't have a formal recognition you know in in the actual Hagia logon of the church the book of saints but just in the last 20 30 years we have so many modern saints from Greece from Russia from Western Europe and from Asia Minor from Turkey Saints such as and there's an icon in this Chapel of Saint Nicholas planas is very simple priest who lived in Athens what years he lived in the 20th century but don't remember the exact day early 1900's or starix Cielo Juan Silla one of Mount Athos who I think died in 1938 a Russian saint a very well-known saint how are they recognized we know about started Silla Juan Bay cyclists are only of Essex who wrote about his life and wrote about his teachings and there was this brewing if you like within the hearts the conscience of the faithful that this man lived a saintly life and so he's acknowledged or saying saint sava the new in colonists or women mother maria scope tava for instance who died in 1945 in paris sheltering jews in her home for a long time and herself giving her life for someone in the gas chamber in ravens brook the concentration camp for someone to escape the the gas chambers and she died on Holy Saturday in 1945 so yes there are modern-day saying a lot of people know Saint Nicodemus tell me about him Nicodemus was on the holy mountain Nicodemus the Hagee all right as he's known the agaric is one of the holy mountain lived on Mount Athos in the 18th 18th century who was well known he was well known for his intelligence I mean he had a memory that would retain entire books of the Bible and entire books of church fathers for instance he is well known for putting together many collections of significant books most importantly the the Philip Kalia that we have today the five volumes of the falaqa Lea speaking about the spiritual life from as early as Aunt Anthony right through to the 14th century the power and the significance of prayer and silence in the church so we we have modern-day said the most recent saint st. nick afford US or the leper who lived in Crete and who died as late as 1964 fascinating no movies made yet on it he sings I'm thinking about some of the movies everyone gladiator and whatnot these definitely could be turned into movies the lives of let me ask you about Saints from America dr. Scott grosse do we have any because I'm hearing Western Europe I'm hearing Russia where's us yeah there are Saints in America and several Saints in America there are two that are fairly well known Saints one st. Herman of Alaska who came over in the late 1700s who in the late 70s from Russia to assist with the missionary enterprise and the Russian and the Russian folks that have been living in Alaska as well as native North northern Alaskans who have become Orthodox and he does a lot of mission work there he dies in the 1830s I think something like that on Kodiak Island spruce Island spruce Island where his reign remains are there today and actually there are a number of Orthodox churches in Alaska air I'm wondering what's going on here it was quite remarkable and then more recently Saint John maximovich who was a Russian immigrated to this country in the 1960s from Shanghai and has joined the Russian immigrant community in San Francisco as their bishop in 62 he died in 66 and was canonized in the 80s I think rather than 90 something like that but a very pious man of faith miracles were attributed to him his body remains in corrupt in the Cathedral in San Francisco on Geary Street it's a site of pilgrimage today for lots of Orthodox Christians and others so let me ask you why do we pray to Saints because that is a big controversy within the Christian community yeah so we pray to Saints what are we presence we ask each other for our prayers we ask each other for assistance we ask each other for help it if father John was to help me out for something I might say thank you and he might say great I'm glad to have done it but perhaps in the bigger picture of life he or I might have might have understood it that that was a good help but it may be to come from God maybe God was behind all of this assistance that was given to me by somebody else and so in some sense that's what the Saints do they do what any Christian would do for anybody else they assist we don't pray to Saints for Oh st. Demetrios Saints oh and so do this for me okay we do to that kind of a pious way and maybe in a simplistic way and there's not anything wrong with that but we always have to remember that our prayer the Saints aren't a mediator they there's no mediation only Christ as a mediator st. Paul tells us that there's one mediator and that's Christ Jesus so that's a given but the Saints are there they're close to God their life doesn't exist if st. Nick carios was with us today in this in this Chapel he was his heart was beating we might have confession with him we might go up and say please remember me in your prayers why don't we stop when he dies did he stop existing when he dies we don't believe that as Christians so why can't we continue to ask him for his prayers as he continues his life in the next life and we all believe that as Christians and so we don't stop that so we don't see the Saints as little gods or goddesses that we look for assistance from and play magical things with us not at all they're there individuals who have a the Greek term as pati SIA it's a powerful word they have this boldness this closeness this ability to not only speak the truth but they're close to God and I'm going to steal something the father John uses a lot this image from saying is it Dorothy oh sure Josie Theo sigasi or OC of Gaza yeah he draws a circle in the sand or on the ground and he in the center and he says gods in the center and we're out here and we draw closer together and as Saints draw closer together we're all on the circle but as we draw closer together we get closer to each other the closer we get to God we're closer to one another which means our call as Christians is to become like Saints as if we get closer to God get closer to each other and that's a powerful recognition and remembrance as well because what we're doing by praying to the Saints is ultimately realizing recognizing that we're not saved alone we cannot be saved alone we are only saved together that's why we come to church on Sunday you know in the early Christian years or even of martyrdom there was a rule that was set up a Canon by the church during the period of persecution mind you when it was very difficult to attend our gathering of Christians publicly so during that period we have a Canon it says you've got to attend church not not to put some money in the tray or to support the local group but in fact you have to attend church because it's the only way you can be saved so that for the early Christians and for us we come together not just to take communion the early Christians actually could take communion at home but you come to church so that you can take communion together so that you can be with one another in the church with the Saints in the church and it's as that body of Christ that Christ comes out to meet us and give us his own body and blood we hear a lot about the Catholic faith having patron saints do we have patron saints and and how do some come to be associated with certain things for example st. Nicholas is patron saint of sailors how did that arise yeah so so we do patron saint's you know we are given Christian names usually when we're baptized as Orthodox Christians they tend to be names of saints and then in that sense we had we sort of adopt them or they adopt us but we kind of adopt them because we share the same name and we remember name days in the Orthodox Church etc and these are all really I think important things for us to do as Orthodox Christians the question is there a particular st. for a particular need yeah that does arise in the Eastern Orthodox tradition as well st. Nicholas for example he probably is a sailor probably is the patron saint of sailors in the sense that his he lived in the city of Myra in southern Asia Minor which is a coastal city there would have been a lot of Sailor activity there I had a major port outside of Myra and so in that sense if you were a local ship you know as Shipman you might you know go into the the port there and the first thing we might do is go to the Church of st. Nicholas because his relics are there because he was an early Christian martyr and you might venerate them and before you leave you might say thanks for getting me here safely can you watch over me as I go over to Rome or continue my trip to Cyprus for example and so in that sense it might be something very practical there might be a story so st. Peter skivvy she's considered the saint of blindness to help people with blindness or sight problems and in her martyrdom story is this little story that she healed the blindness of a local governor and because that story is told about her from the fourth or fifth century onward she was a second century Saint that kind of sticks and so people say oh she healed somebody with blindness so maybe we should pray to to her for blindness it's not something hard and fast rule but that's how it establishes itself and father John let me end with you should we go out and try to live our lives in a saintly manner if I assume for some people that might seem too lofty of a goal something they can't attain and therefore they're not going to try I you're connecting this question I'd like to connect this question with one of your earlier ones about what should our goal be I would say that the church's response to how you become a saint or should you become a saint is actually very simple it's obey the commandments and that that's all it's actually asked of you you are to love your God with all your might or your mind your heart your soul and you are to love your neighbor as yourself and perhaps in addition to this to deny yourself and take up the cross of Christ and follow Christ because in the in the desert tradition the root of all evil is a called self-love falafels so that the source of all holiness is the opposite of that which is loving your neighbor as yourself interject something here in this day and age were taught self esteem self love so to hear you say that what's the difference what's the fine line because obviously you do have to care about yourself to a certain extent I think it's a matter of recognizing that I don't want to belittle all the you know if it's for you know encouraging that a child's self-esteem and so forth but I remember an abbot from Mount Athos once visiting here in fact and Holy Cross the school of theology and I took him to Barnes and Noble and he was shocked at the number of shelves with self-help books all about self esteem and see I would say that the saints of the church know and recognize and have absolutely no problem admitting that their self is broken their self is actually for the most part not good me a lot of modern sort of self-help books try to tell us that we are good I'm good you're good the whole world's good the Desert Fathers tell me that are not good and you're not good but that's that's okay because God is good and God loves us God is a God is the only one that is truly holy and that can offer us His divine grace so how do we do that I would say because it's not just that we are called to be holy or it's a good thing to be holy or we're supposed to be holy I would say we are commanded to be holy be holy even as your father in heaven is holy we're told in Scripture so how do you do that I would say very simply you wake up in the morning and you say the Lord is our God and he has revealed himself to us it's like saying God has created me in His divine image and likeness God has loved me enough to become human for me it's waking up in the morning and being cheerful and not judgmental it's waking up in the morning and being ready to pray to pray the Lord's Prayer and mean the Lord's Prayer to read scripture to expect challenges expect temptations to the end of our life as the norm and to get up when we fall everyone in the book the way of the ascetics by Tito coriander a monkeys asked what do you do up there in your monastery and he answers we fall and we get up we fall and we get up so being holy is being like God it's knowing that you receive the mercy of God therefore it's being able to show other people mercy and that's being like God ultimately that's a beautiful description thank you Father John and dr. Skid Row's thank you so much for your time today and to view our programs in this series discovering Orthodox Christianity log on to our YouTube channel it's youtube.com slash Greek Orthodox Church I'm Stacy Spanos thanks so much for joining us you

Channel: GreekOrthodoxChurch

Views: 15,742

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Keywords: Greek, Orthodox, Christian, America, Saint (Quotation Subject), Eastern Orthodox Church (Religion)

Id: qcvqQLLlUg0

Length: 34min 5sec (2045 seconds)

Published: Sun Nov 03 2013