Sadhguru debates Jewish Rabbi in Los Angeles, California

see it's not a question of uh oh just say yes to one of my questions tell me tell me right you got it right rabbi i'm working here i think that you know when i when i speak to our high school students i always tell them that the indispensable quality to live a good life is courage because what you're describing actually takes a lot of courage it's not easy to be able to change your ideas it's not easy to be able to change the pattern of your life and you have to have a certain amount of courage to allow someone to trample on your ideas because fear is a very powerful motivator in that drive to self-preservation see uh we have given lots of significance to various psychological modes and moods that our intelligence takes we can call it fear we can call it courage we can call it love we can call it hate but it is just different shades that your mind takes at different times all this is only because it is in constant compulsive reaction to something around you in reaction if somebody is nice to you you fall in love with them if somebody is nasty to you you hate them like this in reaction so many things are happening this is a psychological and social phenomena this is not an existential reality love is not an existential reality it is a it is what's happening within you with your emotion what is it give me an existential reality that doesn't happen within you well life is you're alive right now this is existential well it's pretty in you though the life right i mean i don't know the modes of life the the only the only thing that i have a a uh a problem with it the way you said it is you said it's just the way your mind and it seems to me that let me put it that love is a profound reality in people's lives as is thought or learning or all these things that may seem transient but are in fact i think deeply rooted in the human experience let me come to that so it's like this if your body becomes pleasant we call this health you want it hello if it becomes very pleasant we call it pleasure you want it yes i got a bigger ass for that than help if your mind becomes pleasant we call this peace if it becomes very pleasant we call it joy if your emotions become pleasant we call it love if it becomes very pleasant we call it compassion if your very life energies become pleasant we call this blissfulness if it becomes very pleasant we call it ecstasy if your surroundings become pleasant we call this success only for success only to make the surroundings pleasant there is a challenge because you need the cooperation of all the forces which are here but to make my body pleasant mind pleasant emotion pleasant and energy is pleasant is 100 my business but right now what is entirely your business you're trying to handle it like a social phenomena so it looks so complicated and all the problems associated with it but actually you being peaceful you being loving you being joyful every human experience happens from within you whether it happens with external stimuli or its own self-start this is the question what i'm asking you is you remember maybe you don't you're still a young man see that was pleasant so if you had a car in 1950s you would pocket on the slope and in the morning you need two people to push the car later on in 60s crank start you know you need one more person to help you today everything is self-start you have a remote which starts your car these days now you're driving a car which doesn't even start it just goes so it's just upgradation of technology so i'm saying would you like your peacefulness your joyfulness your love your blissfulness your ecstasy be on self-start or push start this is something you have to make up your mind on so i'm i'm gonna summarize back to you and you tell me if i understood what i heard you're trying to return people's almost ownership of their own states of being to inside themselves rather than assume that they have to come from the outside or rely on the outside for them to feel the way they feel this is part one is that correct i would just change one word in that question it's not a state of being me being peaceful is not my state of being me being loving is not my state of being me being joyful is not made of my state of being it's just my thought and emotion playing pleasantly it's like today the weather is great similarly my inner climate is doing great right now this is not a state of being we must understand this this being word is being used everywhere as if it's a quantity people say this being that being being is not some kind of a quantity it's like i'm speaking this is an activity this is in motion only if i speak there is speaking only if i walk there is walking only if i be there is being will you be you be though right i can and and so i'm not i i'm not fully persuaded yet by that distinction but nonetheless what is interesting in part is that you you do actually spend an enormous amount of time and energy though trying to make the external world more pleasant for people the best example is the river project which is a remarkable accomplishment and and enormously ambitious and all about making the external world better so just ensuring that tomorrow our children have water to drink is it very ambitious it is today i mean you wouldn't think so but well let me this time the scale of work that that is there is a scale because there is a scale of disaster unleashed by people but otherwise to look at it simply ensuring that there is water for your children to drink is it very ambitious or is it very natural people have become so unnatural that they don't care tomorrow's generation whether they have water to drink or not so i think it's very natural it's very human for you to respond to these things but the essence of work is not in that these are unfortunate needs of our times in which we exist if i was here 100 years ago i wouldn't be talking about rivers for sure so rivers are not my project unfortunately i see a disaster unfolding so something has to be done about it when i just stepped out this is a 30 day journey where i drove 300 kilometers personally myself and we had 142 events in this 30 days and 182 media interviews and 162 million people responded the largest ever moment on the planet 162 million people responded to this and we changed the policy the government policy towards reverse has been changed in india because of this rally for rivers yeah i think that deserves yes [Music] but the important thing is this why that many people responded people were asking me suguru you got the whole nation together all the opposition parties all political rivals everybody came together for this one thing i said see when i look at it everybody knew this needs to happen but they need a fool to bail the cat they found me how is your message your your essential message about life and how to change your life and how to improve your life different in different places do you go to beverly hills and see a different need than you see in a tribal village in india no not at all they would like to think they're different but they're not they just complicate simple things if i go to your tribal village directly those ladies will just come and tell me what's their problem if i travel to beverly hills they go round and round and round take three days to tell me what's the problem welcome to my hood um [Music] and and how do you because because i think that this is actually something that that all of us do struggle with this compulsiveness this inability to let go of things that we know on some level we should be able to let go of how do you advise us or help us to let go of those things that we know are almost haunting us sometimes so let us understand the fundamentals of compulsiveness where it comes from see everything that's physical in this universe from a single atom to the cosmic nature of things everything that's physical is naturally in cyclical motion in atom things going around in the cosmos it's going around solar system is going around our own bodies are cycles we are born out of the cycles of our mother's bodies so the moment you're identified with the physicality of who you are you're cyclical in nature what is cyclical is compulsive what is cyclical has taken a compulsive pattern it has to do the same things again and again you try as hard as you want it will not go you will give up one and hang on to another i hope with the jewish rabbi a joke is a loud one a jewish rabbi actually a joke is mandatory yes okay that's good this happened it once happened that sankaran pillai was working in an office and his office colleague asked for a lift a woman a young woman so he took her in the car and he was driving and suddenly he became like an octopus that his limbs were all over her so she pushed him away and said you fool i thought you're a decent fellow what are you trying to do he said i'm sorry i gave up smoking [Laughter] so if you try to beat compulsiveness with force you will switch from one cycle to another cycle another cycle to another cycle keeps happening fundamental thing is this you are so strongly identified with your own physical nature inevitably you will be cyclical do whatever you want so this is why what spiritual means is that your experience of life becomes something within you becomes larger than your physicality physicality includes your thought and emotion this is yes no i mean you're what i was going to say two things first of all i think when people talk about whether they're religious or not religious i actually don't believe that's the distinction the distinction between people are materialists and non-materialists that is those who believe that non-material things are real and spiritual realities are real and the reason that i bring this up in part is because i know that one of the things we had talked about addressing is the question of mysticism and it seems to me that both our traditions share a belief that the world that you can see and touch and feel is not all there is and just now as i understood you you were appealing to the non-physical parts of ourselves as a sort of antidote to the over reliance on the physical parts of cyclical compulsiveness see it's not a question of uh oh just say yes to one of my questions tell me tell me right you got it right rabbi i'm working here yes but [Applause] yes but the thing is it's it's not something that we have to believe in see none of us were born like this as we are we came like this we became like this this is just accumulation of the food that we've eaten or it's just a piece of the planet most people don't get this point till you bury them even that in los angeles i feel is difficult because i heard they are being buried in a concrete world so even in burial you will still not know that you are part of the earth so this is something that you gathered anything that you gather at the most you can claim is yours you cannot claim it's me i can say this glass of water is my water my glass of water but if i say this is me you know you know that i'm a case you know for sure so if you say this is my body yes it is right now till we borrow you but if you say this is me you are a case your only comfort is everybody around you is a case this is how it is in asylum the only nut case is the doctor how do you shift that perspective though how do you learn to see yourself as continuous with everyone and everything so it's like this i'm agreeing with that we're good very good so this is my body that's your body distinctly separate at least right now till both of us are buried till then this is my body that's your body very clear this is my mind and that's your mind very clear but there is no such thing as my life and your life there's no such thing this is like i'm sure at some stage in your life when you're in school at least you blew some soap bubbles huh so that's my bubble this is your bubble poop it goes there is no such thing as this is my hair and this is your air this is a living cosmos you captured some i captured some how significant a life you become when i say significance not uh how significant you are in the society or in the world it's not about that as a life you become significant because you have captured that much of life which overwhelms the puniness of your own mind and physical body within you the life that you're captured is a larger dimension than the body that you've gathered and the information that you gathered in the form of your mind when the life that you are is bigger than your mind and your body no teaching is needed you're simply conscious about that that's all it's not that you believe that that's a living reality for you so my whole work is to bring people to a dimension of experience where the life that they are is larger than the mind that they are life that they are is larger than the body that they are so you don't have to give a teaching or a kind of a belief system naturally what is most dominant becomes you within you and the way that you bring people to that dimension of being or dimension of existence is see as there is a science and technology for external well-being there is a whole science and technology for inner well-being the problem that happens in every tradition is over a period of time generation after generation it gathers moss so much frill it gathered nobody knows where the skirt is there is there's a uh there was a french catholic writer charles piguet who said everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics and i think that in religious traditions that's exactly there's a great deal of truth to that so how do you scrape the barnacles off the boat or the moss off the tradition and identify that kernel which can actually expand people's sense of what is what they are a part of but what they are only a small part of i think uh i came with a huge advantage that i am completely uneducated to be educated why i'm saying this is it is not easy to remain uneducated because from the moment you're born the moment somebody sees a child all the adults want to pounce upon the child wanting to teach something that's not worked in their life parents teachers every kind of people the moment they see a child they want to teach the child something it's very clear when you look at the child the exuberance and the joy that the child has and the adults are the way they are obviously it's not worked for them whatever they know but they want to teach it to the child so i refused this one influence on me i just remained as i was uninfluenced by parents teachers society religion around me politics around me i kept myself away from that if you keep yourself away from identifying yourself with just about anything around you anything including your genetics your society religion politics economics whatever is happening around you if you're not identified with anything it is natural for human intelligence to find its way nobody has to teach anybody anything if you just make sure children don't get identified with you hello that you don't want that you want them identified with you because it's your legacy it's not a new life it's your legacy you want to live after you're dead you want them to be just like you in so many different ways if you don't have this problem if you leave them alone just nurture them so that they are not influenced by anything you will see the world will be full of mystics i'm not persuaded first of all okay there there are three things that you said that i'm not completely persuaded of one is that you never learned anything um the when you say you're uneducated you spoke a language you knew your neighborhood that you lived in you learned how to eat and what foods to make you learned lots of things from the people around you there's no way you could have survived had you not learned that's one wait i'm not done number two number two i want you to know that when i had a child i didn't want to teach her the ways that i was that didn't work for me i rather wanted to teach her the joy that i found in the world and the beauty and i teach her poetry and i teach her wonder and i think a lot of what i teach her expands her i'm sure i've taught her some things that she would say gee i wish you hadn't taught me that but but i really do believe that most parents want to teach their children not the things that didn't work for them but rather the things that they found in the world that are extraordinary and wonderful no i i did not mean didn't work in that sense see the only thing about the adults or the parents is the only qualification you have is you landed here a few years earlier all right nothing else hello isn't that so yes you just came here a little early so what do you know you know a few survival tricks that the child does not know if you want to teach them business you want to teach them how to survive in the world fine you know better than them of course but as life the reason why everybody loves a child is because child is a better life than the adult in every way just as life maybe he doesn't have your intellect maybe he's not accumulated the nonsense that you've accumulated maybe he does not know how to survive in the world but as a life he is far more exuberant and alive than you are that is why it doesn't matter whose child when you see a child you light up because it's life even even the grave-faced people get ignited all right you know so when i say teaching children something that did not work in their life it is not that your survival tricks did not work obviously they worked for you that's what you want to teach because you're concerned about the child's survival all right you're concerned what will happen to him what this is the only thing see when people have children they only have moments of joy rest of the time it's only anxiety what will happen what will happen what will happen yes because it's all about survival so if you even i mean i'm trying to look at this comprehensively even if you if you just examine the prayers on the planet this says everything about the adults 95 of the prayers on the planet or just about dear god give me this give me that save me protect me does it sound like survival or divine expansion maybe even five percent is there 95 percent is only save me protect me give me this give me that isn't it this is all survival process outsourced [Music] well you i must i i admit that you are the first person that that i know who preaches um a desire to uneducate people um and and i understand what you're saying that there is a pure life to a baby but i don't believe that that pure life witness can exist in an adult the same way it does in a child i said the same way that it doesn't a child no you're a man in all seriousness you're a man who has political savvy you've written books you travel and speak there's a certain there is a certain sophistication to your lack of sophistication that i think is quite right that is that is seems to be pretty clear i'm not i'm not suggesting oh you're just like everybody else but but i also think that maybe you are over playing the extent to which um civilization civilization is a bad idea i think it's usually a pretty good idea often no civilization is organization of human basic human intent just an organized structure but organization can also get suffocating for the growth no question of an individual life when you are five years of age let's say when all of you were five years of age how joyful exuberant and alive you were and how you are today though for all of you i can see life has worked out very well better than you would have imagined for many of you in spite of that compared to how you were five years of age and today half you are has it gone down or not see i want you to understand with age only physical agility can go down aliveness need not go down hello so are you trying to die in installments that's all i'm asking you it seemed foolish to do it all at once so i thought i thought i would do it gradually [Laughter] over time but but what i would say is also i'm not sure that i would privilege aliveness over everything else because i might be less alive than i was when i was five years old but i wouldn't go back to being five because i have so much now that i did not have as a five-year-old and some of it like sad memories ways in which i've hurt other people ways in which i've hurt myself some of it is stuff that may diminish my life but i also think has made me wiser broader more empathetic more sympathetic deeper all of those things so i don't see this as a one-way street see essentially you are trying to what to say prescribe some amount of suffering for everybody so that they become wiser no i'm i'm saying that it's i'm saying that a certain amount of suffering is inevitable and once it happens to you i'm not sure you wouldn't choose it but i'm not sure that once it happens when you look back on it you would say it didn't actually allow me in some ways to deepen myself i don't think that that's unfamiliar to your religious tradition it certainly isn't to mind no i was just about to clarify that when i said i came with an advantage i did not belong to any tradition as such i did not identify with any tradition nor they could put me into any tradition this is all i did i did not identify myself with anything just to tell you to what extent i was around maybe 12 12 years of age and you know in india our mothers and parents generally they're not given to everyday profess i love you this and that there is no verbal expression of love they live for us we know the question of whether they love us or not doesn't arise because their lives are about us so it never occurs whether they love us don't allow us such things don't even exist it is just their lives are dedicated to us so we know they live for us so when i'm around 12 years of age some tender moment and not exactly i love you but in some way she expressed her affections towards me i'm in that mode at that time struggling you know that i i made sure that i don't belong anywhere but at the same time i'm extremely involved with everything so i just asked it was a natural question for me i asked her suppose i was born in the next house would you still feel this way about me she just steered up i didn't know what i said wrong i thought i just asked a question but it somehow she just teared up and went away and after 10 minutes she came back and she did something very strange she came and touched my feet and she was all in tears i didn't know what to say i said what did i do wrong i just asked a question but when i look back later on when things changed within myself i saw that she saw the point she got it in such a profound way because it is true that her affections are simply because i am her son not as a life not as a just another being if i was somebody else she wouldn't feel the same way when she realized that she just kind of you know an expansion is also cracking up you know the excel has to crack for something new to come out so i just kept see if your intelligence is not aligned or associated or identified with anything it is natural for human intelligence to seek relentlessly seeking relentlessly means without any purpose see the difference between because you mentioned the word mysticism the difference between mysticism and other ways of doing things is everybody is trying to find something a scientist trying is trying to find something everybody somebody who's walking the street right now is trying to find something of their own needs every human being every animal is trying to find something maybe food maybe shelter maybe whatever so if you have a torchlight if you have a what do you call this flashlight if you have a flashlight you have focused light you're trying to find something you only see this person or this person or this person what mysticism means is you blew your flashlight it became a flare you saw everything the way it is and after that you are never the same [Music] again [Music] you

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Keywords: sadhguru, sadhguru debate, sadhguru vs, sadhguru vs jewish rabbi, sadhguru rabbi, sadhguru interview, sadhguru 2020, sadhguru 2021, sadhguru new, sadguru, Los Angeles, California, sadhguru los angeles, sadhguru california, los angeles california, sadhguru in los angeles california, Sadhguru debates Jewish Rabbi in Los Angeles, debate sadhguru

Id: aQzPhEbyZ5g

Length: 32min 47sec (1967 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 16 2020