S3 E43 Melinda Brown on the Power of Truly Being in Covenant (week of May 20)

[Music] hello and welcome to the scriptures a real podcast this is the podcast where we talk about elements of the scriptures that have become more real to us because we believe that helps us draw more power out of them and we need all the help we can get I'm your host Carrie mste and I'm so happy to have with me today uh my friend Melinda Brown welcome Melinda hey thank you I'm happy to be here Carrie ah so glad to have you with us I guess I should call you I'll call you Mindy you said that maybe you'll feel like you're in trouble if I your full name I get that so anyway thank you so much for joining us yeah my pleasure happy to be here we're sponsored this week by the society for the preservation of ancient religious cultures or spark this is a fantastic organization I love being part of they they help fund my excavation so you join it for as low as $35 a year and and that goes towards funding my excavation or others like we've helped Petra and megiddo and some the excavations of Fremont Indians next to Utah Lake and things like that um it's a fantastic organization we do monthly lectures once you join you can get on the website and access the video library for all the lectures for we started this in uh 2020 well spark has been around since 2015 but we started making it something you could join publicly since 2020 all sorts of topics scripture topics archaeology topics uh ancient world topics just a lot of fun things so go to spark project.org that's spark with a c because because it's the society for the preservation of ancient religious cultures so spark project.org and uh join and you'll love it well let me tell the audience just a little bit about you uh Mindy and then we can uh uh have you tell us more you we'll have you tell us the really interesting stuff but uh Mindy's lived in in Provo for 20 years and she serves in a by well a singles word with Heritage Halls BYU students there for a number of years and she teaches their Temple classes and all sorts of things um she's the author of Even Adam discovering the beautiful balance which was published by deser book in 2020 and she's just finishing up her second book uh with desra book called approaching the temple I'm excited for that to to come out uh I know you're also in a in a master's program at Duke I'd love to hear a little bit more about that and uh and about your family I know you have children grandchildren that kind of a thing so we we'd love to hear more about that and everything else what else should we know about you okay great um well I graduated from BYU many many years ago with an economics degree and then took a pivot as life does right and now in in Divinity School at Duke Divinity School uh finishing up a master's degree in Christian practice which has been an unbelievably joyful wonderful Adventure I've really truly loved every minute of it I will be sad when it's over um however yeah thank you uh my husband children and grandchildren might be happy when it's over they have missed me a little bit I think I hope I hope they've missed me um it's been pretty busy um I have four grown children with my husband Doug and uh two of them are married and then we have four little grandsons and a fifth grandson on the way we're kind of specializing in grandsons apparently and that's great we that's high energy darling ones yes it is it's awesome we love it well congratulations on on those that have come and the one that's about to come we're so excited this is just going to be a really fun scripture block this is one that I think a lot of people have scriptures in that they love and they they want to talk about some powerful stories powerful teachings in mosiah 18 through 24 there's no way we can cover all of it so we'll just figure out what things we do uh talk about we'll have fun while we do it so uh where would you like to to take us Mindy what's become real to you what would you like to talk about great um I would actually love to just focus mostly on mosiah 18 um I think there is so much good stuff there we could spend way more than the time that we have just digging into mosiah 18 it gets a little bit complicated with all the fun awesome stories that come after but there's so much good stuff here I'd say let's start there um and actually I'd suggest we back up one page um to Elma or excuse me mosiah 17 because that's where we first meet Elma and um you know you probably have have thought about this last week but it's nice to kind of refresh what we know about him we get this little block of um verses 2- 4 that uh teach us a couple of key things that we want to know about Elma first it says that he was a young man and he believed the words of abinadi so he's got a soft heart and um teachable and uh he knew concerning the iniquity of what had been going on there in the court of King Noah and the other priests so he's observant and aware and maybe cautious that he was still there with them but um that he was also very brave because he began to plead with the king and you have to imagine that was a brave move for him right yeah and then as the king gets angry about what Elma is saying he fled so he's fast because he got away and he hid himself so he's also clever and then he took the time to write all the words that abinadi had spoken so he's learned he's wise he understands that he ought to get it down while it's fresh in his mind and then when we jump into the beginning of uh chapter 18 first we've skipped that portion that tells about abad's tragic fate but we can assume that as Elma begins teaching people who have come to find him that maybe they're bringing the message of what has happened to ainad so he's he's probably somewhat aware although perhaps not perhaps the court kind of kept that on the down right and he might not have known but then as we launch into chapter 18 we get a couple crucial other details about Elma um we read that he repented of his sins and iniquities so he's humble and he realizes that he wants to change he wants some sort of transformation to come into his life because of these things which I think is all really helpful information as we dig into this and start um learning about this then I think um verse two is just a really really important verse for us to focus on for a moment um do you want to read that Carrie sure yay concerning that which was to come and also concerning the resurrection of the dead and the Redemption of the people which was to be brought to pass through the power and sufferings and death of Christ and his resurrection and Ascension into heaven so those are some of the words of abadi that he taught so it's interesting that's where we see what he focused on right yeah yeah definitely and that it's completely Christ Centric it's totally focused on Christ which I think is crucial as we launch into a chapter all about the development of Christ's Church among these people the community and the unity that's building up and then the Covenant relationship it's really all about this Covenant relationship that this community is entering into in a really physical embodied sort of way and what that is going to do to them and so um I think verse two is just is such an important piece of that story that then we can look into right a amen there's so many things that people can take away from what a benad taught but I love the focus that Elma has like this is what he sees as the central message and it is the central message yeah of the benad teachings and the gospel in general that's right that's right I think it's such a good reminder to us that it really boils down to that and if if we were going to spend a good chunk of time talking with our children and our family and all of our loved ones about the significance of Covenant relationship starting with baptism this is a great model to follow I think elma's got that figured out right Amen to that yeah so I love that okay so then as we kind of take a little bit of a 30,000 foot view for second at the rest of the chapter there's something really worth noting I think here and I've heard you Carrie talk about this before and and I think you're with me that we think this is significant when you see what is known as an inclusio right or a bookended segment and in verse three and verse um 30 we have one of these and I'll point out what it is but first let me just say that that in my opinion when we bump into an inclusio first of all it's a beautiful literary device and it really shines a light on how thoughtful the authors you know these prophets were to make sure they were recording something in the most effective way they could possibly use the limited words and the limited space on these plates and all of that um and so to me it's like just flashing a light saying pay attention to everything in between these two kind of bookends right yeah and so what we hear here that gets repeated is in verse three it reads and as many as would hear his word he did teach and he taught them privately that it might not come to the knowledge of the king and it's that sentence that gets repeated um in verse 30 at at the end there oh excuse me 31 it says that they might not come to the knowledge of the king and that may seem not like the most important detail in this story but I think it's significant that it is used as an inclusio because what comes between it is so valuable for us to think about as highly significant yeah I agree and and to add I mean I think it's even larger if you see verse four and a little bit of five focuses on and this is what had all happened at Mormon at the Waters of Mormon and so on and you get that also in in 30 right so it's this all happened in Mormon and it was a great place called Mormon and so on and so so that that and the the teachings that they don't want the king to know about are that that sets up the what we might call the Waters of Mormon paropy right yes yeah yeah that's exactly right and actually I wanted to spend a minute focusing on that idea um that it's this place that all this is happening you know I think um and and this is this is not an original thought I've Heard lots of other Scholars talk about this I don't want anybody to think I thought of this you know this is this is out there for sure but I think we tend to maybe default to this idea that the Book of Mormon is Mormon's editorial collection and it's this the prophet Mormon that we're thinking of but I think this chapter is trying to really make a point that oh this is about a place that was so powerful and a sacred thing happened with a real transformation that took place among a big group of people um that unified them in a really key idea and maybe the title is actually more about what happens in a in a place of Promise like this promised land that they're referring to as the land of Mormon the Waters of Mormon The Forest of Mormon and it just repeats over and over and over again um especially there in those first few verses from guess about Verses 4 through eight we get all those ideas and then in 15 um 16 excuse me kind of there in the middle it highlights them again the place of Mormon the Waters of Mormon and then like you said in 30 it just goes through that whole Litany of phrases to describe this place it's almost like it's saying don't miss that we're really talking about what happened right here right um and I think oh excuse me go ahead what were you no no no I I I didn't want to interrupt you keep going oh well I was just going to say that I think it's helpful just to draw those ideas and and connect a few dots there to jump ahead to third Nephi and in chapter 5 um verse 12 we read about Mormon the person Mormon actually being named after this place right and that's really valuable right it says I am called Mormon being called after the land of Mormon the land in which Alma did establish the church among the people yet the first church which was established among them after their transgression so um I think that's he's trying to say like this isn't like my book right that's not his point um and then I also think uh it's useful if we want to go back um even turn a few more pages there to third Nephi 21 in verse 22 it makes that message one more time where it says uh but if they will repent and hearken un to my words and hearken and Harden not their heart excuse me I will EST establish my church among them and they shall come in unto the Covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob whom I have given this land for their inheritance so I think we kind of have like a multiple witnesses that that what we are about to really dive deep into in mosiah 18 is kind of what it's all about right I I would agree and I would say in some ways the the ideas are not mutually exclusive in that Mormon as you said clearly identifies with what happened here right he he enough to where it's not it's not just that he was named after it he needs us to know he's named after this yeah that's exactly right yeah and and uh this is a place where we're going to talk about all sorts of stuff but it's all going to revolve around covenants in one way or another and Mormon himself I mean will get to this like many many many months from now but when we get to when he's writing and the last things he says is hey I need you to know you're of the House of Israel You're of the Covenant he has this amazing Covenant emphasis and uh and so the it being what Mormon's Focus so if it's the Book of Mormon named after Mormon uh then that's going to tell us well it's it's going to be his one of his Focus which is Christ and Covenant yeah and if we're going to do it well it's named after the place of Mormon well it's Christ and Covenant so they're intertwined enough that it may be impossible to to untangle them but it it certainly helps us recognize where we need to focus yeah I I agree I think that's exactly right um and I might just mention here um one of the one of the kind of um speakers recently on this topic said something really lovely about this and maybe you were there to hear this but president Kevin worthan um that former BYU president in one of his final devotionals on campus he talked about Hearts knit together in love that was delivered in September of 2021 and um he was talking about this belonging community and he said the followers of Alma whose Hearts were knit together in love came to that blessed State when they were gathered together in a compact proximate Society in a land called Mormon their experience there caused them to Revere that place then he goes on to say I hope that because of our efforts to create a community of belonging like here at BYU or in wherever whatever Community you're in I think president Nelson's wed a church to be that that's exactly right right yeah I mean we hear a lot about this belonging Community but I hope you would think it's beautiful right um and for me as I've thought about that and and as I've kind of considered like how this has become real to me um that I'm kind of living through a kind of poignant example of this currently and maybe you felt this way too I know I'm not the only one within my community you mentioned I live in Provo and um as probably many of your listeners are aware our our Provo kind of Hillside what will soon be called The Rock Canyon Temple has been closed and it's going to go undergo a massive renovation basically it's going to come all the way down and been re be rebuilt it's not going to look the same um you know it's going to be a really major change to those of us who see it there on the hillside as a real Beacon of light and hope and meaning to us because of the experiences we've had there and um I I mean I I suppose in some ways it's good because it's helped me appreciate and verbalize my gratitude so much more clearly to the Lord for having this temple in the last 20 years of my life and even before then when I was here as a student but um I just have thought so many times about what a special beautiful place that has become to me and it's actually painful for me to drive by it I kind of divert my eyes because it is so sad to think that that's going to be different and of course it will be another Temple and it will be wonderful but I'm having a difficult adjustment period dealing with that and I know many of my friends and loved ones my daughters struggling with it we're all kind of mourning the loss of this Sacred Space right yeah my wife who was a temple worker up until the day it closed uh yeah she's having that same thing like oh that's that's she's excited and sad at the same time yeah yeah yeah and it is because where the these special events play happen where we draw closer to God yeah uh we become attached to the memory and the feeling but the place as well yeah I I think that's really true it's it is significant to me and that's one way this this chapter 18 has become very very real to me recently is that I understand because I have those feelings about such a place so yeah anyway that's that's one thought I have on that but okay thoughts on that before we dive into what's in the middle of this let's let's keep going okay great great so um when we look at what then happens in the middle I'm going to just tell you a little bit about one thing I like to do uh and I'll hold this up actually for your viewers who are watching but I'm just like oh something that I'm all blurry I I'm just really a color coding sort of fanatic and one thing I've discovered in color coding my scriptures um is patterns that emerge in that color coding and as I started to dive back into these Pages um in the last little while here I was reminded that these are some of the most interestingly patterned colorcoded pages and by that I mean for me I use Brown to represent agency so something that we're doing or being asked to do kind of on our side gets kind of underlined in brown and then green the fact that your last name is brown does that mean we should read something into this or is there something going on here I guess I hav thought I hadn't thought of that no and so the other color that key is green which actually is my favorite color more than brown but green represents Christ and his atoning love in my mind so on this first page especially mosiah 18 3-14 it's just brown green brown green brown green brown green which I think is so fascinating because that's really what the the physical action of of participating in an ordinance that signifies such a sacred Covenant relationship should look like atoning love agency atoning love agency atoning love agency it really should go back and forth and that's kind of a fun exercise that it might be interesting yeah I'm I'm GNA have to try that because it is a great description of the Covenant in many ways is but yeah that's all right I'm GNA I'm going to try that and see so you can visually see the pattern that sounds like activity yeah and and it emerges tons of places throughout the Book of Mormon for sure and in other scriptures as well but but it is fun you really see it in the Book of Mormon which is always a reminder of what a valuable resource it is for us and what a blessing it is right so as I go through and read kind of everything that's in between these inclusio verses right um two things jump out at me and that's kind of where I'd like to just put a little bit of focus here is uh what we see in terms of physicality of like the embodied actions that we see these folks doing and are were having described to us and then also the communal aspect um the the plural language of things and for me I think those two ideas are really key to not just this chapter but the whole idea of what Covenant belonging is about it it takes our bodies right it's meant to be experienced immortality because it's very transformative and it shapes us as we practice these ways of living and I would characterize them as Christ's ways of living right that that we're really clearly following his example in how we're doing this and Elma draws that out so beautifully in of course his really key scriptures that so many of us kind of know the main Thoughts by heart this willing the willingness to Bear one another's burdens and mourn with those that mourn and Covenant those or comfort those that stand in need of comfort and stand as a witness of God at all times and in all things and in all places that you may be in even until death again it's that highlight on this is the Mortal experience that's really crucial so those are verses eight and nine um and and I think when we then zoom out a little bit again and look for those embodied elements and communal elements it's causes us to pause and think how am I doing in feeling this like why where and why and how does my body matter so much in my Covenant relationship and am I sharing it with everybody around me in a way that's unifying and pulling them in that I'm reaching out that's knitting us together right and of course that's the other really beautiful favorite phrase in this this of having our hearts knit together in love one towards another um so thoughts on that or yeah yeah and I mean I don't want to if I take away from anything that you're about to say then we'll just edit it out or something but uh so I'm I'm really big into what academically is called ritual Theory and uh and both of those will I mean both of the things you're talking about really impact uh an element of ritual Theory and that is when you become the symbol so all of our rituals or you could say all of our ordinances our ordinances are rituals vice versa um involve a physical action there there's a physical symbol so the symbolism is important The More Physical the symbol the more we remember it and so on so uh and kinetic movement and action imprints that memory A Little Bit Stronger right yes um but uh that there's always that physical symbol but when you become the major symbol right so like if you're being set heart or ordained or something someone puts their hands on your head that's kind of the major symbol and it and it touches you and and that point of contact is is still important but probably more than in any other ritual baptism you are the symbol right it's about what you are doing and and so the kinetic movement does something but it's also that and and I think this is that kind of outward and knitting element um it it sends so much of a stronger message when you are the symbol right so this is is it strengthens your commitment because you are the message but it also strengthens everyone else knowing your commitment because you are the message and so I think that that element of ritual Theory most actually academic theories I think have as much hogwash as they have something good in them uh there's always something of both and that's true of theories I've put out there but but this thing I think is really good I love I love this element of ritual Theory where I think it's dead on and I have felt it in my own life yeah I I agree completely actually one of my professors loves to use the phrase rituals deeply lived in this idea of it needing the physicality of it that that's actually absolutely crucial to the experience like you said there's this element of people watching it happened not only because you publicly making uh a pledge in doing this publicly um even though this is a very private hidden little group right it's still public for them yeah you're not afraid to give evidence that you choose this and it's such a least to the group that you are choosing to join right yeah that's exactly right and and a crucial agency driven step right like like I often think and right and I and I talk with my my temple students a lot about this too that like you don't accidentally pay tithing right nobody accidentally does that you don't accidentally take the sacrament I mean you choose you got to move your arm you don't accidentally get baptized there's an agential step that must happen in doing it and in that regard ordinances are really really powerful like you described so so I think that's beautiful here in these these pages I love that yeah I do too yeah yeah um one of the fun things in here my favorite little bit maybe you have a favorite too that kind of highlights that idea but I love that they clapped their hands for Joy like that that just they were feeling it and I think it's such a good reminder um just how crucial our bodies are to a soul experience right our bodies are absolutely this crucial piece of our soul it's not it's not 95% Spirit 5% body it's really both interwoven together it's why this life is so valuable for us to learn things because we feel it deeply it becomes ritual deeply lived and Truth deeply lived and deeply felt and I think that's Illustrated beautifully here I love what you're saying and it it brings up a really important point and that is that uh your whole soul has to be involved in this right so exactly you can go through the outward motion your body can do the motion but if you're spirit is not fully consecrated in it now none of us are perfectly consecrated let's so when I'm saying fully I don't mean perfectly but I mean we really want this and we really want to try that's you know and we may be asking help me in my unbelief as we do it but fine we're really trying then that means your whole soul is involved and then the ordinance and and uh the power and effects of it really happen and it doesn't happen until then right so we we could we have to talk about being true Covenant Keepers instead of just uh uh going through the motions Covenant Keepers and that kind of a thing and it starts with that full integration the soul the the spirit and the body both fully engaged in this because it's what you want with all your heart might mind and strength that's right that's right and I think this um this chapter also highlights the order of those events quite significantly you know sometimes we might think uh especially in the modern Western World we might think well I don't want to commit to something until I've done all the things and and it's deeply ingrained and I'm positive and what this is showing is you can do that for a little bit but actually you ought to commit like commit and then invest and then practice because I think something that uh you know some Scholars have written beautifully about is this notion that conversion can happen quite quickly and that seems to be what has happened to the people who have left the town or city and come and found Alman they're listening to him they're having a big change of heart Something's Happened to them and they're Desiring this they want this but transformation tends to happen slowly and it happens through practice right and doing it over and over again and I think to me another thing I really love about this chapter is verses about 9 through 11 where Alma kind of explains to them okay so if you're going to commit to this let me just tell you kind of what this is going to look like in the coming days and months and years this is how this ought to transform you you ought to want to comfort those who stand in need of comfort you ought to want to mourn together and bear one another's burdens uh recently Elder renland has said repeatedly in a couple different key messages he's delivered especially at the B campuses this idea that those are really the fruits of living Christ's Covenant way right that's that's not actually what we're we're covenanting precisely and this kind of gets into the weeds a little bit but but that's what committing to take Christ's name upon us and live like him and witness him in everything we do that's what it's going to look like and uh something that comes up a lot in in the classes I teach about the temple is kind of this a question a lot of young people have about about the temple recommend interview process and this idea of why do we need to qualify for the temple and shouldn't it be open to everyone and I think this is a lovely example of actually this is a really transparent way to address look we want you to commit we'd love you to take this step but let's be sure we're clear on what transformation you're shooting for where you're aiming uh trying to align what you know what you want and what you do because what you do tends to lag behind those others right because right our bodies need some channeling and harnessing and there's a lot to learn and a lot of practice to be done and again it's that Soulful learning it it sometimes they don't always move in perfect in perfect synchronicity right and so so we need to keep practicing and keep trying and keep learning and yay repentance I mean it it all works like it's a beautifully designed plan so and there are so many things you've said that are so profound that I mean I'm thinking about this idea of commitment and uh you know there's all sorts of evidence from even from very um secular Scholars that uh people who are willing to just commit to marriage and be married have much more successful marriages than people who feel like well need to try this first and we live together for a long time and then we get married and R and who knows how much of that is the person's mind so well I bet it doesn't doesn't really matter if it's if if it is because that's their mindset ahead of time that they're not sure about it it's still because you're willing to commit right you you have to be willing to commit to make this stick and as you said the the initial commitment that initial feeling so many of us have that no one stays with it perfectly right it's the repetition that's important so thank goodness for the sacrament yes exactly baptized and then never we're having to recommit then I don't think we'd progress the way we do when we are weekly recommitting and weekly reaping of those those benefits it's a a beautiful powerful process that that God puts us through and and if it's all right maybe I could just speak a little bit to what you were talking about with elder renland as well and I made this point one other time on on the podcast but I want to do it again just because uh I know I in classes and writings and elsewhere and almost everyone I know including almost every Bishop I know uh when we talk about the Covenant we've lumped uh everything together where we've said this is the Covenant we make it baptism and it's it includes uh verses like eight where it talks about coming to the full of God and and and bearing witness and then as you say nine um where it talks about the uh the effect we have with others and um I had heard and I I've told the story before but I think it Bears repeating I'd heard from someone we were uh working on some uh Covenant things for the church and i' heard from someone that had been in a correlation meeting that said well president Nelson has said that these this first part is the Covenant that your relationship with God and and yes Second Great commandment that's part of our covenant that we we love others but all these other things that's not really part of the Covenant and I thought well you know sometimes when you hear things third fourth hand I don't know if we're getting that right um but then I heard Elder renland just right after that saying that same thing and then he said it again as you said so I want to make sure that we're clear on that uh and I I love the way that you said it we do Covenant with God to be his people uh to take his name upon us to be to be gathered into his fold uh to to Bear witness of him and so on and then we naturally because of that when we love God that much we will naturally love his children and all these other things will flow from it this this uh wanting to Bear each other's burdens and mourn with those that mourn and and take care of people and I think if we're going to talk about the Covenant path this is a great way to measure it if we are going to say the Covenant path is and then we have a list of 6,000 checklist things um that that gets to be overwhelming now checklists are fine and and there are things we have to do but that gets to be overwhelming because none of us are going to do all that perfectly but if we think of it this way we love God so much that we we do what he wants us to do and that causes us to love each other so much that we try and serve each other so the the real barometer whether you're on the Covenant path or not and this is what I I talk about in one of these books about blessings on the Covenant path um I think the greatest barometer for whether you're on the Covenant path or not is do you love God do you love his children and are you acting on that love and if so you're on the Covenant path right you will naturally be on that path it's just what flows because of that deep as you say Soulful inner commitment yeah yeah I think that's exactly right that well said um I I think those are really key important ideas and you know worth remembering too that that it's all about Christ as the model that all the things that we commit to I mean when we think about the covenants of uh that that we commit to in receiving our own endowments when we talk about obedience and sacrifice and loving others and Chastity and consecration those are all things that Christ modeled perfectly and those are things that he's asking us to live like him because this is actually the happy way of living like this is how relationships work well and the communal nature of uh of figuring this out in a group of people who not only are are trying for the same thing but but because of that are also quite patient hopefully that we're allowing our our El to kind of practice and learn on each other which is going to mean lots of repenting lots of forgiving of each other lots of apologizing as we make errors and mistakes um in doing all of that we will gradually kind of embed it into our souls of what it feels like to live the happy way of Christ's way of life and I think that's what we see play out beautifully in this chapter I mean it's amazing that by the end of this chapter and who knows the timeline on this if this was hours or days or a week or two or three or whatever but but they've all grown together so well that when danger comes they are okay to leave together and off they go kind of Into the Wilderness um because this is now who they are and what really matters to them so that's a pretty profound idea right it really is yeah and I hope that you know we're we're just going to end up talking about chapter 18 but I hope that as our audience does all the reading with chapter 24 and everything that's happening with them that you'll keep in mind that this is how it began with that that uh Covenant Community uh you know belonging to God belonging to each other uh episode that we're talking about here that's what made everything else possible and so have that lens on as you read do the rest of that reading yeah that's exactly right I think every one of these amazingly intricate I mean you can make a pretty fun movie about all these stories that follow in Rapid succession right all of them are giving evidence to what is laid out in this chapter of the goals right you've got to act you got to use your agency you're going to work in combination you're going to collaborate with the Lord in all this and with each other and you're going to do it together and it's going to be like your little personal laboratory with all your people around you to practice on and learn on when you have the conversion come over you I mean Elma did it too the the fact that he left that court in really dangerous circumstance right you got to know that that was a scary Brave thing he did and running away like that and everything that's going to follow I mean he's leading by example and I I just think he's amazing I I just it's so fun to get to this Alma part because of course he's there woven in and everything else and his descendants and all this and it gets really exciting as we keep going and so anyway I think this is just such a fabulous chapter I I couldn't agree more uh and the and the that communal aspect I don't know if you had more you wanted to say about the communal aspect but no you go ahead I I I think we can't forget that the scriptures when they talk about the Covenant and about the blessings of the Covenant almost all the time it's it talks about it for God's people as a whole it's not much of a focus for God's you know this person or that person now of course that part's true and and to some degree we live our lives individually but only to some degree right yeah for sure in fact I especially noticed that when uh you get the Book of Mormon it kind of starts to to begin with it talks about what we might call communal salvation communal Covenant uh just incessantly and it starts to talk a little bit more about individual but when Christ comes he only talks about it in the communal sense and and it kind of is discourse correction and then from there on out that's that's how they stay with it and I find we live in such an individualistic society that that's really difficult for people to compute and and say what what do you mean of course salvation is individual and and so on um and and I think it is to some degree the effect of living on a society that says it's all about you and if we were in some other societies that where I know it's about the the group and the taking care of others and forget about yourself that that might be less of a leap but but that's not very many cultures anymore yeah yeah that's right so I think we we oh sorry go ahead no no you go ahead finish say I think we just need to remember that the the focus can't be on yourself if you're going to be saved and you're focusing on yourself you won't be saved uh you know he that loses his life for my sake shall find it is is what Christ says uh if we are just consumed with this love for God and for others if we're worri busy trying to save others we'll end up being saved if we're trying to draw closer to God so that we can know what he would have do to help others if if we're trying to have the spirit with us so we can help others to know what he wants us to do uh rather than I'm drawing closer to God to help myself you're you have a ceiling how far you can get with that Focus but if you're doing it because I want to I love God I want to know what he wants me to do I want to know what he wants me to do for others there's no ceiling to that um and and so uh I I think we can if we think of it in those terms we'll understand this communal and this belonging sense a little bit better that I think was so inherent to elma's little Community here right that they got it it was natural to them we have to get ourselves there get ourselves out of the me me me mindset and just forget about yourself it's not about you yeah yeah well the and the other thing that's so fascinating about this and I mean this kind of gets into social psychology and group dynamics and things but um in in such a me focused uh independent sort of culture as as we all live in and and the Western World typically um something that for some reason goes closely with that especially these days seems to be this sense of um well it's not fair if anybody gets left behind and it and and why should I get this but not them and so there is this element but the thing that's amazing and so beautiful about the divine plan of happiness is if you are doing it right and and you continue in this Covenant relationship and you keep deepening it with each further Covenant you get into such a place like just to get yourself to the state of consecration where everything you want to do is uh God's Will and building his kingdom and helping others come with you what you're actually doing is lifting everybody up and yes there doesn't need to be any hierarchy or layers but it really if you lead with loving God and doing it his way it's enormously effective of bringing everybody up to the same level it's like you get this highest common denominator situation happening and then it's it's irrelevant that there might be layers or whatever because you're all going to get there together and it's like you're weaving this net that is then such a more effective net to lift you know the kingdom of God upward because you were woven together I think that's to me is a is a beautiful image it is a beautiful image and and it comes back to your your idea about agency right if yeah so we could put it this way if you are and I guess that whole Soulful Commitment if you are consecrating if you're giving things to help people or you're doing this because you have to or because someone makes you then it will help them a little and it may actually hurt you or it might help you a little bit it's just as likely it's going to actually make you a less happy and less good person but if you are choosing it's not because uh the the church is asking you or a government agency is is forcing this upon you or something like that if you are choosing to help people to give of your time to give of your your money your resources your abilities your your gifts whatever if you are choosing to give to help people then that does it helps them more but the the change that it produces in you is incredible and that that's all because of the the the motive and that's where real agency lies right is in the choice you've made in your heart and mind um it's all because of that motive so again when you are are acting out of love the change is exponentially different than if you're acting for any other reason yes and you know a kind of a concluding thought to just sort of tie that all up and put a beautiful bow on it is the is the sense that love is not love unless it is freely given if there's any ment of coercion there it's not love it's you come up with other words there are lots of synonyms you could use there but but it's not love love must be freely given so in a plan that is all about love and I propose this is 100% this is about love between the Lord and us and others it is all built on love that in my opinion is why agency is so unbelievably critical because that's how you show love you have to be a free agent if you will and get to illustrate that yourself and that's really that's what it's all about without the agency piece we never could have received the love or given it back or given it to others so it just is a it's a beautiful system I mean it's just really divinely designed obviously obviously uh that's that's wonderful and beautiful and and a great great summation of the the most important elements of uh really what's in this chapter again this Covenant chapter uh that focuses on love of God and Love of All Mankind which ties us back even to uh the doctrine of Christ and and so on right and what uh Nephi sees in his vision and so on that the The Book of Mormon is so incredibly interwoven and these themes are are so beautifully uh expressed in so many different ways that draw on each other and hopefully that just keeps giving the Holy Ghost an opportunity to make an impression on our souls and change us so that we are just a little bit more I love this Soulful idea if we keep in mind that what we mean by that is is with our whole body and mind or heart might mind and strength however you want to say it uh if we can have our whole soul uh in this then wow what God can can do with us uh is incredible amen exactly right I love it well thank you so much this has just been uh so much fun and I I know I've been edified and uplifted and uh I'm sure the audience has been as well uh so we hope that you'll you'll uh share it with people and I'd say first of all just Reach Out act on love in whatever way the spirit directs you and if that's to to call your neighbor text your friend whatever uh reach out to a family member share these ideas both by the way you act but then you can teach them to other people as well we also hope that you'll uh you'll share it online using your social media channels or something along those lines and uh uh help people know by liking and rating and downloading and sharing and reviewing and that kind of thing and and we've been asked to encourage conversations and and feedback so uh if the platform you listen on doesn't have a way for you to to leave comments where you say oh I was touched by this idea or oh I learned this or oh what do you think about that then listen on that platform and maybe jump on something like YouTube or I whatever platform allows you to to leave a comment we've been asked to encourage that so uh we'd love for people to to just interact that's what we want is to interact in positive loving not negative but positive loving ways uh about these things so we hope you'll do all of that as well we also hope you'll join us next week uh when Aon shamway from BYU Hawaii is going to talk to us about mosiah 25-28 and the the really powerful things that happen as Salma integrates with the larger society and takes these covenants and and the organization that he's set up and and makes this a larger thing just some beautiful powerful Stuff Plus his son has some things going on in there so uh it's it's uh wonderful stuff so thank you again Mindy you've really uplifted me thank you oh thank you my pleasure it's been a great discussion thank you for the opportunity to dig deeper into it I love it well bless you

Channel: The Scriptures Are Real | By Kerry Muhlestein

Views: 5,321

Keywords:

Id: PSi-69RZwmo

Length: 49min 16sec (2956 seconds)

Published: Sun May 19 2024