Russell Brand Peter Hitchens Newsnight 2012

well we got chip Summers Peter Hitchens David Burrows Peter Hitchens Russell Brand says this is a disorder we should treat drug addiction like a disease do you agree no it's a crime it involves the possession of a Class A drug which is a criminal offense which people do voluntarily and they do it for pleasure and if we continue to treat it as if it is a disease which they should be sympathized with there will be more and more and more of it as there has been over the past many years we do not anymore enforce our own laws on this subject the very word Addiction assumes that the person involved has no free will you have no sympathy at all for the people who get trapped on drugs for years I haven't I have sympathy with with anybody who who gets themselves into trouble but sympathy isn't the point what I don't have is any sympathy with somebody who deliberately breaks a known law they are criminals they should be punished and honestly if they were punished for this they would by and large not get into the trouble they get into and there would be many many fewer of them but we don't do that you can look at they look at the look at the figures for for a rest of people even for possession of class A drugs which we supposedly view most seriously of the ones who are convicted fewer than one in turn are actually sentenced to imprisonment this is a class A drug the most serious Russell Brand they are they are criminals what what's wrong with what I understand what Pete is saying and I understand his frustration there's a person that has to deal with drug addicts in my life they're a frustrating type of person to deal with but I think Peter that if you can find in yourself to look at human human beings with compassion and love rather than with aggression you'll find that there's more of a opportunity for progress lectured on aggression right you you've been extremely aggressive to me in the past when we when when we've met because of the biggest tree Peter I don't mean it I'm only having a bit of fun stuff when you actually learn to use reason you can accuse people of bigotry until then I should keep very quiet about it learning yourself why is a comedian being given a program on the BBC to push a policy about drugs why is that why is our debate on drugs so debased that this this is the kind of thing we are reduced to Peter I'm angry because because many many young people in this country are being betrayed what do you think people the feeble government I think we should enforce our law against illegal drugs people in prison I don't want people in prison no I want people deterred from taking drugs taking drugs which will ruin their lives you ask a question you've got to listen to the answer is absolutely nothing remotely resembling reason thought or fact and yet you are making it you are making a program on drugs is qualified to be in the film he's someone who got Russell Brown and many other people clean on drugs what do you think is the answer what do I think it was what do you think is the answer what do you think is it compassion is it locking up well they're very criminalized compassion locking up I think making it of course well of course everybody who takes that class A drugs is committing a crime but people do it and people will do it because it is pleasurable to begin with and then they become addicted and I think at that point you need to intervene in a kind and compassionate way nobody sets out to become highly addicted to drugs it is a disease we should treat it as a disease as a disorder I don't know whether it's a disease or an illness all I know is that everybody who walks through the door of my treatment center did not intend to end up that way they started off with perhaps good intentions but they did not intend to and not the way it crept up on them and they became very ill and very sick and those people need help and we try and give it to them they'd have been better off if they've been deterred from doing it in the first place which is what we do not do and we don't do it without instead the government mugs the taxpayer to the tune of 300 million pounds a year to give drugs to people who are already was something that I thought was shopping to find out that nearly 150 000 people are prescribed Methadone in this country should we be actually giving drugs to people and just sort of trying to keep them off the street rather than helping them kick their addiction which is basically what Russia if we want to be caring it's not caring just to Simply give the methadone to part themselves off on methadone and this government has recognized that this big tanker that's been throwing a whole lot of money into 300 000 on that tanker hasn't had a destination it's been going around just giving the methadone keeping them in the treatment and not actually giving them an exit and there's not much you've been if you've been in power for two years there's not much time that it's changed 18 more people have have come out drug-free in the last year and now we're going to be paying people in areas to provide rehab and opportunities to get off drugs and also to be get back into society again into employment into proper housing and with that to pay them by the results not just to pay them to get into treatment but to get out of it the truth is the government users method is going to end up using methadone because it's cheap surely that is why it's not actually cheap in the long run to be years and years in Midland we're now getting Gerry addicts who've been in in on methadone for so many years it makes sense for the addict and for those around them to get them off as soon as possible truth is the law-abiding public are punished by the government through through very heavy taxation for this ridiculous program uh for because the government is not prepared to punish people for breaking the law on drugs which if they enforced would prevent an awful lot of people but following the road which description it wouldn't cost it endlessly what we have done is committed ourselves to an endless program as I say of mugging the public to give methadone to people who are already on drugs which which has which has over the past 40 years produced a gigantic increase in the number of people taking heroin from Victorian Britain but Russell Russell's one of the lucky story as we know is a Soviet liberal parties there's nothing there's nothing easy and soppy by getting off Russell is one of the lucky ones who can come here and tell his story and we want other people to hear that story but the reality is that the access to rehab that chip office and others isn't enough it's not around the country we want to ensure that there's more people who will be able to access that treatment and tell that story whatever you think of us it's a good story in terms of the Olympics some of the most inspirational people you can are those who have got through the the throes of addiction that are managed to recovery who's telling the story of the parent of the young person who's in danger of becoming of becoming a drug user who gets no help with deterrence from the government who's telling who's who's telling the story of the taxpayer who has to finance this failed endless project nobody is telling that story but he goes on television to tell the story I never thought I'd be sorry for drugs I never thought I'd be saying this on this program but I think Russell Brown should get a word in thank you so much Stephanie Peter I think we want the same thing I don't think any of us are saying that children should be taking drugs or anyone should be taking drugs I think what we want to offer is a sensible solution to a difficult problem and criminalization and imprisonment isn't working and it's wonderful to hear this gentleman from the Tory party talking in such compassionate terms I understand your frustration mate but I really think that the techniques and methods that you're talking about are Antiquated and belong in another era that kind of Foghorn Madness from a bygone times there you go again no reason just abuse I love to see the Embrace between you and the conservative Place more of it the better the more people will realize how useless the conservative party is the people in this country you care about you said but but the fact is your policy has been tried I'm finishing my centers your policy has been tried it's been tried for 40 years and what we've seen and what we've seen now is the consequence of it what we see is a large number of of drug takers far greater than 40 years ago with policy has been applied of decriminalizing drugs in all but name this country would decriminalize drugs if it were not for the fact that it was signed International treaties preventing it from doing so the decriminalization is is is unofficial but it is there we have the result of what you're calling for and it is terrible it's time we had a chance would you would you be better off if you've been sent to prison at the right time I've been of much assistance generally speaking stuff in abstinence that is one way of approaching it I think that perhaps abstinence programs in prisons is certainly one of the things that we should be looking at I think the penal system is one of the areas where there's vast room for for improvement I think it's a mentality shift and perhaps that's why Peter thinks it sounds vague because what we're talking about is quite broad it's an attitudinal shift regarding it as a health problem as opposed to a criminal problem is the first step I certainly don't think prison would have helped today many people do you think it would have helped Russell Brown to go to prison it would have helped him if he'd been afraid of going to prison enough not to take the drugs that's what a deterrent law does it's not designed to throw everybody who takes drugs into prison it's designed to deter people from taking them in the first but in order to determine them you have to send them to prison some people to prison to prove that you mean it once you've done that then then they believe you but if you stop sending people to prison as we've done they know you don't mean it and they know that the criminal justice we shouldn't be tolerating drugs use but at the same time once we've got them in the system in prison we should be making sure they get rehab as well and that's what we're trying to do to make sure we don't just do it run full of drugs then especially oh you make no serious evidence that you all have at least that I think that both actually Peter Hitchens and Russell Brand both have which is that people I don't care about drug addicts people don't want to spend a lot of money on them they want the cheapest possible policy and they want them away somewhere people don't care enough about drug addicts even to put them in prison no I don't think it's a problem so I think people do carry a great deal especially when this drug problem enters their own family sphere and and the disaster of drugs attacks your own family and circle people of whom this happens are so devastated they wonder they wonder where the government is we haven't got much time but just on my point do you think that people don't care enough about drugs that's basically yes I think that's basically the problem although I have learned to love you Peter and in a minute I'm going to give you such a kiss on the lips I'm going to challenge a few other of your prejudices let's get into the homophobia it's just under the surface there Peter how does one do I think one deal with a person who cannot debate seriously and it is why is he why is this person brought before select committees and allowed to make programs on the BBC he simply isn't capable of doing it there's more debate it just doesn't know he uses this expression criminalization the person who criminalizes is the person who commits the criminal offense people are not criminalized otherwise otherwise all you're saying is that all crime is caused by law no there's a ludicrous proposition people commit crimes and they are and they are punished an awful lot of words are you admit it now I think he's quite a lovely fella deep down and he's just a little bit confused we're not saying of course that the law should entitle people to act in a mad cap ad hoc fashion we're just saying that if a social problem like drug addiction and alcoholism exists they should be the proper responsible conscientious treatment they're a gentleman like chip Summers who understand how abstinence-based recovery Works my job is simply to draw attention to abstinence-based recovery that's all I want to do and a component of that is a tolerance and understanding to people unwell if this affects people's lives all over our country okay Russell Brand's documentary you're doing great oh that'll get you anywhere right from Russell Brand to sweaty women let's go research shows that nearly half of teenage girls think sport is unfeminine too messy apparently too much sweat some of the commentators watching the women's boxing in Judo this week seem to agree one said he was worried about their soft bones getting bruised was that you Peter but mostly we've been applauding our sporting within the past two weeks not to mention their 10 gold medals for team GB so here on Newsnight we're wondering whether any of that warm glow will last

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Views: 1,165,629

Keywords: Russell, Brand, Peter, Hitchens, Newsnight

Id: SsMU77TwYM0

Length: 12min 26sec (746 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 11 2012