Ron Gilbert Talks Thimbleweed Park, "Monkey Island 3a", and Pokémon Go

Ron Gilbert welcome to the game former show sir thank you it's not to have you man well uh thanks for asking me yeah you're a quick turnaround to send an email out and this legendary game designer is like yep I'm on board let's go I love it I live in my computer so so you work remotely then on tumbleweed park yeah I work at home and all of the team members are all over the world we have people in England and Spain and Canada and it's just all over so I don't think really any of us actually work in the same space together oh wow so you guys have a podcast that I really appreciate where it's basically just your stand-up meetings and there's kind of short updates for the community about where you guys are at and so that explains why it's all Skype but like how did you find this team to put together for this project well obviously you know Gary Winnick and I known each other a long time you know doing maniac mansion and then the next person we brought on was David Fox who it we also worked with the at Lucasfilm you know he had worked I had done game programming on maniac mansion so he was kind of a natural fit you know for somebody to come on and do game programming for us and then after that we brought a mark Ferrari who was also you know an old Lucasfilm vet who did the art for the original Monkey Island and so that was kind of the core group we started with and then we needed you know some animators and we found Octavio is from Spain and it's just an incredible 8-bit animator and we just kind of you know grown from there just you know adding you know different team members piece by piece yeah for sure so working from home with this kind of throwback project with some old friends of yours is it relaxing is it a good time how's it going for you oh it is anything but real life you know a project to me is it's always relaxing for about maybe the first half of it right because you're just creating a lot of stuff it's all just these wonderful dreams that you're putting together and then the second half is this is the reality of everything you've created is finally dawning on you and it's just a whole lot of work right you realize you know we need to cut this or this doesn't work or you know play testers are confused here and and it just gets incredibly stressful and then you get you get to the phase we're in right now which is where you know the last you know quarter of the project and that's even more stressful because you know you're dealing with you know lovely press calling you up all the time and when you do interviews and you're doing all this other stuff and you're saying you know I wish everyone would just leave me alone and I could work my game so if you could perpetually just be like in the first half of projects just abandon a project halfway through and let other people finish it that's your ideal world yeah that's that that is the dream I guess is it's to make prototypes and then get there to a certain point and abandon them and it starts something else but I don't I don't think that pays the rent yeah that's true it's tough to make a profit on that so how are you feeling about the game so far oh it's great you know we're we're really happy you know it's with the way it's turned out and stuff so I mean sometimes it's hard to see that you know when you're at the end of a project because I don't think I my entire career I have ever worked on a game that I didn't hate by the time I was done with it so I imagine I will hate them but we part by the time it's over but you know I think if you kind of get through that it's like you realize that you know it's actually a really fun game we get a lot of really good feedback from outside play testers moving in to play the game they really really enjoy it quite a bit so we actually at one of our play testers contacted us the other day and wanted to let us know you know how much he appreciated the puzzle design the movie park because she had just started playing another adventure game and realized just how bad the puzzles were and it really made her realize oh you know what the puzzles in the query part are actually well thought out and well done so it's you know it's kind of nice nice so it's the kind of the overall pitch is you know going back to the heyday of adventure games to throw back but does it have modern design sensibilities I'm still trying to get a feel for like if this is going to be intimidating I see all the verbs on the screen and I'm automatically like well I'm gonna get stuck in this game so you talk about like that balance and where you think the game's at now yeah it's you know it's we don't like to call it a retro game because you know although it does have a lot of 8-bit aesthetic to it which which you know is really just an artistic choice we've made for the stuff but there are a lot of more modern things we were doing with the game design and you know I think when we were making games back in the 80s and early 90s it was kind of okay for people to be stuck I think it's what people almost expected from those games back then but I don't think people want that any you know they want they want puzzles that are designed very intelligently and that do make some logical sense they could still be challenging puzzles but it's like when you solve a puzzle you want to go oh yeah okay I should have got that right you want to you want the player to blame themselves for not getting a puzzle never blaming you for not getting puzzle you know as a designer and so those are just lessons you know that we've learned over the years of making games and I think that you know modern gamers or people who are not in really into point-and-click adventure games you know they want a little more focus in the narration you know they want they want to they don't want to be told where to go but they want to know that they're going in the right direction and so there's just a lot of little things like that that we're doing with the design which was just kind of help but you know comfort you in a way so you know okay I'm doing the right thing I'm going in the right direction without just leading them in the right direction so there's a lot of you know modern things like that that we're doing to the game okay just more lines of dialogue saying hey we checked over there that type of thing yeah you know more you know signpost markers in the world more you know subtle things you might come across in the world would say hey this is the interesting thing over here you'll pay attention to this it's just it's stuff like that and it's the kind of things that we didn't really think about back then putting into a game but you know over the years you see more of that and I think that's the kind of thing that will make the game you'll be really appealing to players today who maybe don't even play you know fine and click adventure games yes we talk about like not wanting players to blame the game and I'm curious like the actual puzzles themselves that you got a compliment on how advanced are they how have they changed uh how's your sense of puzzle design changed over the last 20 years I mean you designed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these things now is it still I don't know the other is there some resembling so that old-style or do you have a new formula for these I think there's a lot of resemblance to it you know it is a point-and-click adventure game and I think a point-and-click adventure games have a a certain puzzle style to them you know a pose as opposed to a game like you know like Firewatch or a game like Kentucky route zero which are you know at the core adventure games but they have a very different style of puzzle right they have a very different way of moving you through the narrative we're pointing click adventures have a certain style and we're certainly doing that style of puzzle but you know it's not about you know combining two things in a ridiculous way that makes no sense right it's not about randomly trying everything your inventory with everything on the screen to see what works right because once you push the player to that point it's like you've kind of lost them in a way now they're just randomly from flailing around and so I think with your good modern puzzle design it's just about designing puzzles that make logical sense you know you see two things as a little light bulb goes off in your head and you go oh well that's interesting right and then you might try to go okay now I see what's going on guys it's about making things clear to people about what's happening and I think that's a big change in modern adventure game design nice so I'm curious like with the more open development of this game what it's been like for you have the podcast you've had a lot of communication with the fans what do you think about this transparency for the team you know it's good and bad you know I enjoy it because I enjoy interacting with the people it's fun to talk about our process and it's fun to do the podcasts and the you know the blog posts and stuff and I think that's that's really fun um but there's also like there's a weird pressure orhan at all and you I think one of the biggest things is you normally you know and this and this applies to any creative work right there's a book or a movie or a song or whatever but things go through a lot of changes in the course of their development you know you start with an idea and you change a lot of stuff and you move it and you massage it and it finally becomes the thing that people finally see and that has kind of been difficult because I've kind of felt like maybe I can't make the broad changes that I want to make like I want to make a big change I'm like well I'm not sure I can really do that I mean there have been some things we've done and it's just it's about communicating well with people about why you're doing this change and that's yeah that's a little bit of the educational process than hoping people find you know and following this Kickstarter is is when we make changes to the game where we do things differently explaining well this is why we did this this is why we made this change so you know that that probably adds a little bit of work so the project that wouldn't be there if we were just you know doing this behind closed doors anything it's held you back in some areas where it's like well I could convince the team of this but now I have to convince the entire Internet of this to do I don't know whether tell this back or not you know because because that piece has always been in the back of my head maybe I haven't really entertained big changes because I know well I really can't do this I really can't go from five playable characters to four playable characters right a change like that you'll because we promise certain things on the Kickstarter maybe those things just never really entered my mind well maybe they would have you know if rent if this wasn't done as a Kickstarter so it's hard to it's hard to say whether that's true and on happy so interesting just to like have two versions basically the a B test imbel we'd park right one that's done completely in secret and see what that game looks like versus the transparent one because I think about this a lot like if you were having podcast and having this many community community interactions but not for like developing Monkey Island like how different with that game look like yeah I mean that's a really good question you know doing doing game equip Yellin and I think about that a little bit you know if I ever got a chance to make monkey on three right is I'd love to make that game but I don't think I'd want to make that game like I'm making the movie park it's like I don't think I'd want to make that game exposing every little change I made that I'm making to the game or every decision that I'm doing because I think that Monkey Island is so steeped in nostalgia for people that yeah I think as I kind of moved and changed things it's like people might start to freak out about stuff and I probably would spend a lot of time explaining why doing this as opposed to just having the game come out and and seeing more the final product and not really seeing you know the sausages factory that everything's made in so yeah I mean if I ever get to make them again and I think it's I think I'm going to probably do it behind closed doors are you that passionate about making a new monkey island is just something you like love I would love to make one I would absolutely love to make a new one you know I've had the story in my head for many many years and I would love to do it but I need to I need to own it to make it right I don't want to license it from Disney I don't want somebody looking over my shoulder because I want to make the game I want to make right and in it and I kind of feel like the new Miguel and I would make would be completely unmarketable but that's totally okay with me right because it's to me it's the game I want to make it is the true you know successor to you know the first two games but you know it's it's not you know it's not going to all be a 3d it's not going to all this other stuff but you know it's just it's hard for me to believe that it would actually be a marketable game that's okay it is because I don't know what the difference would be I mean it's still gonna appeal to the fans of the first two right and isn't that kind of the crowd you're trying to get in with them but we'd Park well I think it will appeal to Monkey Island bands I think it'll just completely appeal to them but I think if you were to do you know you were to say to Disney or somebody any other big company it's like hey I want to make a new one of these I think the first thing you get is their marketing team which up on you go okay well how are we going to modernize how are we gonna track this new market segment to the game how are we and they'll start asking all those questions which are you know completely legitimate questions to ask but not for this game right because to me this game is about making you know I call it monkey island 3a right this is making the monkey island I would have made had I stayed at Lucasfilm and I think that that really kind of requires a very different type of game to be made and I'm just not so sure a big company could deal with that yeah REE tempted to you know instead of thimble we'd Park make a game just called like EEP archipelago and just try and get that because it's got all the Leela's did so many times that's what I should do and as it always seems lame it's like idea I feel like I shouldn't be ripping off my own stuff you know it's like that's a given you know it's like if I'm gonna make a new Monkey Island it should be a new monkey I own this should not just be a chimp and pirate based game totally but I mean it's sealed away in the Disney Vault right I mean you open up those communications at all you know it's it's you know the issue isn't about talking to Disney it's about talking to the right people at Disney and that's you know I feel the right people at Disney or so far up the chain that they probably don't even know they own this thing called Monkey Island but I mean with Double Fine's work remastering some as old better but those were just licenses right I mean those those were just licenses were all done through Sony I mean that wasn't even you know directly connecting with Disney so I think it's I think you know buying back the rights to the to the game just really what I want to do is is is a huge amount of decline yeah it'd be tough before we get off Monkey Island I have to ask you real quick if you played Uncharted 4 I have not played it I don't own a Playstation I'm an Xbox person so I have not played it but believe me I have fielded thousands of tweets over the last couple weeks of people telling me about it did you get a heads-up on that one or is it one to glide on the heads-up after it it shipped right just I think it I think it might've even been the night it was released you know that I got a tweet from the LEAs designer just saying hey there's some stuff in here that you think you know I think you'll think is really cool so that's that's kind of a heads up I got nice flattering fun to see guy brushes skeletal yeah yeah no it's I mean it's super it's super flattering to see you know what what monkey island-- a guy brush just kind of means to people in some ways you know I get I get you know emails and tweets from people who have had you know monkey out of weddings you know and then that hell you know that's really cool I got somebody who wanted to let me know that they named their child guy brush and then I kind of scared me a little bit but obviously you know people do really like this and that you know I think that always makes you feel good you know when you create something that means so much to people yeah definitely so do you feel like you're scratching a little bit of The Monkey Island itch with thimble weed Parkman is it kind of getting you back into that headspace but it definitely scratching the make an adventure game edge you know creating those puzzles and creating worlds and stories and characters and stuff I think you know that has been has been a lot of fun me Oh guy brush and the monkey and you know world is a very different world with the bleep our kids yokai brush was a very interesting character to write for because he was kind of a buffoon right and so he was he was fun because you could make fun of him and he could be a little bit you know well a lot naive about a lot of things and that was fun right those fun to write for what are the characters in thimble Park you know aren't really buffoon so it's a very different type of writing style you know as you're writing the characters yeah but you must have gotten met a little bit with the cave I mean there's some buffoon and weirdo characters in that game from the flower yeah hey the cave was interesting because none of the characters really spoke so you really you know you really weren't writing for them when all you were writing for was this narrator you know of the cave and so um I kind of missed I mean to me that was like a creative challenge with the cave it's like you know can I do this with nothing but a narrator and have the main characters not actually talk so it was you know in some ways it was a creative challenge to be able to do that but I think it was really hard I don't know that I wanted to do it again yeah Hurley enjoyed the hell out of the cave that was a really fun co-op experience I thank you yes so what do you think about your time at Double Fine in retrospect then do you feel like you got enough done there yeah I mean there's a lot of super talented people I mean their artists are absolutely amazing you know so it was really nice to be able to work with such a talented group of artists you know and you know what they're doing so you know I mean the cave was an idea that it had for you know almost 30 years and it actually predates maniac mansion so this it moves fun to actually you know finally make that game yeah so you must have learned a lot of lessons from the Double Fine adventure which the documentary series is the absolute best and I really appreciated your segments in it but you must have learned a lot from that to take forward to thimble weeds one thing weed parks progress then right yeah there was a lot of stuff about the Kickstarter itself you know I wasn't really involved in so production of the game it's all but just you're watching the Kickstarter you know and looking at you know what they did right and what they did wrong you know that was one of those things that when we did our Kickstarter we said okay well we want to make sure we do this but I'll make sure we don't do this and so that that part of it it was was very very useful um useful to have yeah it's interesting I mean you mentioned how if you ever made a monkey island you'd want to do it in secret and I feel like that was kind of the conclusion at the end of the double fine dock as well as Tim Schafer saying like you know what we do next we just want to be under the radar a little bit more like we're a little bit too exposed out here but do you feel a little bit too exposed with nimble weed park or if you hit that right level idea I don't I don't feel no I don't feel too exposed I think it is it is the right at the right level I think I think when you invite cameras into something I think you're kind of opening yourself up for even an additional level of exposure you know when we can do the podcast and we can write on the blog um but it can still be a little bit controlled you know and how open how we're doing stuff and and so I don't you know I don't feel I don't feel overexposed I just feel like I mentioned at the beginning it's just a lot of work so I probably spend a good day in every week just dealing with the blog stuff and you know dealing with the backers and all of this so you know you imagine you know a good you know one-fifth of my time is taken away doing nothing with this so it would be nice you know to not do this because it would just add an entire day that I could get back to actually making the game so what are you actually doing on the game then are you programming with this thing mainly writing what's your process I think the two big main things I do a programming and writing I built the engine so we've got a you know a TD point click engine that I kind of built from scratch so I'm still doing a lot of work on the engine it's very similar what I was doing you know back at Lucasfilm me even on Monkey Island them and I spent maybe half my time on that project just working on the scum engine you know and the other half of it was you know doing mostly design stuff and then you know a little bit of writing type stuff sort and I think that's similar except I'm doing a lot more writing on this game that I did on Monkey Island programming and writing that's my two big jobs do you have a preference between the two I you know I think I like programming I think I think you know I'm like a nerd at heart and I just I just love to program I really enjoy programming so I think if I could do nothing but program I think I might I might be generally happy I think I think people like to read a book that you would write just about like your histories of the game industry and the changes in programmers I I think you would have a lot to say on the topic that is estimated yeah it definitely has changed a lot but you still feel like enough is the same at the core where you're able to stay at and at the core it is yeah at the core you know I love programming and you know I think I've always I've always been a kind of designer where I have to really have my fingers in stuff because I really do I make games kind of by by intuition and experience right I don't like writing big long design documents but stuff I like to just start coding and start playing with the game that's seeing how the game feels and you know with this game it's like you know I can put in a puzzle and I can play it and I go if I don't like that I just I just changed right I just kind of go up and we do a little programming and I change it and I see and I don't like and I change it I go back to it and I really enjoyed that you drew aspect of making games and I think that kind of requires you to be a program where if you're a your pure designer or your artist designer you know you're always interfacing with the programmers going okay well I want this change it's like no a little bit different - no a little bit different and there's a constant cycle that you're doing where I can just do that so I call myself and I'm like them yeah it has to be nice so I mean you had such an experimental career as well you've got done kids games iOS like downloadable stuff on consoles like is there one area that you were especially intrigued by what is your favorite era of your career I guess I should ask uh I think the favorite era of my crew is probably the kiss games it Humongousaur oh okay I really enjoyed those games a lot because the guild they were they were adventure games right there were real adventure games right they weren't just these watered-down kids products but they were you know the games have been simplified a little bit and I think especially at the time it's probably not so much true today but at the time your kids are just mesmerized with these things you know they did not really seen stuff like this parents had not seen stuff like this and so it was a little bit of this magical period you know being able to do these games for kids and I just I found it very interesting and I also learned a lot as a designer you know because kids are not interested in a lot of things that I think you know normal you know mainstream game people are interested in they're not interested in technology they don't really care anything about you know what graphics card ins runs on they're really narrative focused and they're you know very character focused and that was that was a lot of fun right it was a lot of fun to have to figure out how to design puzzles that were intuitive to them because they're not kids are not going to bang their head against the screen to figure something out right and so you do have to make things um make sense and I think a lot of those design lessons from doing the humongous entertainment stuff have really translated forward I mean there's a lot of things that we do in thimble we park that I can point to directly came from my experience in humongous entertainment and making those games and how we you know told stories and you don't move the kids through the narratives so all modern games are just made for babies that that conclusion has just thrown kits for all kids at heart right yeah totally through this what do you think about like the modern state of gaming market for kids do you stay up-to-date on it do try to keep an eye on things I yeah I think the the gaming mark for kids right now is really depressing yeah I think it's you know kind of right right after humongous entertainment the kids market just became nothing but licenses you know if you if you want to Pixar or Disney or Nickelodeon you know you it was just impossible to sell anything and then once you kind of move into licenses you start to get games where you're spending all your money on its license and you know these kids will buy it because it's on Nickelodeon or some Disney property and it really doesn't matter what you make but you can just kind of shovel something down there and put the license on it and I think things got really dark you know around that time with the kids stuff and I think now we have a little bit of it I think we still have that but we also have this the situation where there's all of these apps available where kids are playing games on there you know and they're on iPads and their phones and I've watched some kids play the games it's a little bit depressing to me because they have this like very very short attention span you know I will watch them play a game on their iPad and they will play it for maybe a minute and then they will close it and they will start up another game and they will play that for maybe a minute and I'll close it and I'll start up another game and you it yeah I don't think in a company like humongous entertainment could survive in today's market you know because you know the games we made back then you know pajama Sam and putt button Freddy fish they were there were essentially long-form narrative games right they they required that the kids that we had the kids undivided attention for long periods of time and at the time they were happy to do that I just you know I don't know the kids today are really you know in that kind of position so what do you do you just wait for them to grow up and take some long-form entertainment like thimble weed Park again or is do you think that if there was a game so compelling on iOS that was narrative based and venture based that they'd get into it family it they mind you know I don't know I mean you can buy the humongous entertainment stuff for for the iPad but I haven't done a lot of looking into you know what happens when kids play those games so I do do they get sucked into them or did they close the Mac for 30 seconds and move on something else I haven't really looked very closely with their you know play patterns or like read they were just going to go back to trying to get the service working a Pokemon go I think I thought you tweeted a couple times of a Pokemon go what do you think of this phenomenon I think I think Pokemon goes really interesting you know I think it's I think any kind of a phenomenon like that I find very interesting I don't find the game itself particularly interesting you know there were there were lots of games like Pokemon go before Pokemon go right and since it's not like they did something I mean even the company the main Pokemon go and made other games like Pokemon go before that so the game itself doesn't fascinate me what fascinates me is more of the kind of a cultural impact that it's had that just the amazing number of people that I see play in this game and you know people wandering around staring at their phones now you know they're not not checking Twitter or Facebook now now they're playing Pokemon go and I think that's I think that's really interesting I think it's good right I think it gets it gets people you know kind of involved in games anything anytime you can do that right if you get you know a hundred million people playing something that pokemons go even of a small fraction of them go hey this was interesting I what I wonder what else is out there right and then they might start exploring that kind of stuff in and you'll uncover different types of games it's just so surreal to see adults walking around trying to memorize the names of the hundred and fifty-one original Pokemon but the universe is this for 2016 like that's a fascinating part to me is people that are so hooked on the game that aren't really even Pokemon fans but is like well there's a dumb-looking rat thing and a bird thing I'll catch that that's addictive enough for me I went to a wedding of a friend of mine on Sunday and they had you know they had the service and everybody sitting there watching the service and the service and you know kiss the bride all that kind of stuff and then immediately half the place whips out their phones to look for pokemons now I just hold back the whole time there's this moment of respect during the ceremony and bam phones come out let's see what pokemons are here you know oh god what terrible timing for a wedding but have you ever seen a phenomenon like this you've been you've got her eyes on the industry for so long no not not to the scale no what do you think's second like I think Jeff Gerstmann a Giant Bomb said that maybe pac-man is the closest phenomenon that we saw back in the day yeah because the early stuff you know those arcade games first came out you know they were brand new to everybody you did see a little bit of that and I think you also saw a lot of weird phenomenons and it's not really computer stuff but you saw things like you know Cabbage Patch Kids you know if you remember that and all that but that was the same kind of weird phenomenon it's just everybody was talking about it all the news people are talking about it and so I think you occasionally get these weird phenomenons that pop up is just kind of work their way quickly through to a culture I mean your weather pogium ago is still here in a month or six months right it could be totally going by and only that very small hardcore group of people are still playing yeah as a game designer does your head immediately start spinning about like how can I make something that will not cash in on this but kind of grab a little bit of it and that enthusiasm and do something more interesting with it well you know I think the type of game the Pokemon go is isn't really the type of game that I enjoy making you know and some of my friends do and it certainly talked to them and it gets their minds going right because this is the kind of stuff that they're interested in but but I think I think we all pretty much agree that without the Pokemon license this never would have happened right there's I don't think visiting intrinsic about the game itself that grabbed all these people I think it was the Pokemon license that kind of pushed it over the edge yeah you know if you're looking at replicating Pokemon success I think the first thing you have to do is go find another license because I don't think you do it without some other large places as Monkey Island license big enough I says largely oh I see I'm sorry what about does scurvy scalawags you made a match three game that was accidentally great on iOS was that a positive experience for you yeah I I really like um I really like mobile games a lot I mean if I could make you kind of magically make no other type of game I would like make these games um what I don't like about them is I don't like all the in-app purchase stuff I don't I don't like how designers really have to kind of change their games and push this weird in-app purchase the kind of orders on gambling to me or at least it it triggers these gambling parts of our brain and that that part of it I don't really like but I do I like designing those types of game so like I like making games that you you do go in and you play for 15 or 20 minutes and you cannot write and you play for another 15 minutes to come out of I think those types of games are really fun yeah so more so that that aspect of it I like I just don't like the economics of it and I don't like the you know the monetization models that mobile games have we think like premium apps you'd be interested in making more of those in the future I would that they would never sell why do you cut yourself short round immediately just don't they don't I mean that's the honest trip they don't sell right I mean we can wish that they would sell and I have these conversations you know my games not our friends all the time it's like we all wish this stuff itself because we find it interesting but we don't have any desire to do this weird in-app purchase stuff so I just you know I don't have a lot of faith you know I think I think like simple weed Clark will probably do okay you know on the phone but I don't think it could have survived on the phone right the fact that it is primarily a PC game and it's going to be on some consoles and then it kind of jumps over to the mobile platforms I think it can enjoy some success and enjoy an interesting market on that platform but if we made them we part just for the devices I don't think it ever it ever would've been successful yeah so what does the future hold are you really in love with this kind of global team that you've assembled here you know it's there are things about it I really like the things I don't like about it I mean I love that I get to work with people all over the world you know I love that I get to work with people from you know just have very different experiences than me and I really enjoy that um I don't like that I can't just walk over to someone's office you know so anytime we do have discussions it's like we have to you know power up Skype and then there's always this like disconnect because Skype and that partner I am very much a face-to-face person you know when it comes to that so I do miss I miss that aspect of it so do you ever think about building up a small studio than on your own um yeah you know would that would be fun to do um it's a lot of work Mottola it's a burden right because you have now have a bunch of people that are kind of looking to you to to do something so it's a little bit of a burden to that kind of stuff but yeah I mean I would love to have a very small you know less than ten person studio where we all kind of live do the same area and it's tough any kind that would be a lot of fun nice I'll look forward to seeing what you do next keep on being experimental man it's exciting my watch great what are the what are the hot details on pin will we park when is this thing coming out it'll be out at the beginning of 2017 okay great no be out on Windows Mac and Linux and also it'll be out on the Xbox cool exciting stuff well congratulations on a rap of the game man thanks really getting there

Channel: Game Informer

Views: 35,929

Rating: 4.9551401 out of 5

Keywords: gi show, game informer show, ron gilbert, thimbleweed park, the secret of monkey island, monkey island, pokemon go, pokemon, ron gilbert interview

Id: voJvtZ3jnL4

Length: 33min 36sec (2016 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 22 2016