Rishi’s D-Day disaster was a ‘historic blunder’ and ‘a game changer in terms of the election’

in the times today saying you know if they were in any doubt you know ask one of the policemen in Downing Street ask Larry the cat he would have told you you stay and pay your respects I mean on every level uh this was wrong and potentially a game changer in terms of the election uh Kirsty first of all on that question of of of what we learned last night um what we saw last night and I suppose there are two things here there's the kind of personalities of these people as as Representatives yes of conservatives labor Li SNP greens reform UK also on policy what have we what Have We Come Away with as a result of these seven-way debates what did I learn from last night I learned that Angela Raina gives amazing side eye um I learned actually the only new fact that I learned from the entire 90 minutes was that Nigel farage wants proportional representation which is another strike against PR for me uh and I learned that I want to be Michelle Hussein when I grow up I think that's the sum total of it the other thing I learned was that seven-way debates on politics are probably no way for sane people to spend their Friday nights uh it reminds me of the you know uh the the line from MC Beth you know full of Sound and Fury signifying nothing um it wasn't much of a dial shifter all the things you'd expect the smaller parties ganged up on labor and the conservatives you know Angela r and Penny morn wented at hammer and tongs and shouted over each other and everyone seemed it's a Friday night people we've all had a hard week at work it was very shouty shouting at each other shouting at the audience you know and mainly it was just a set of talking points uh that I feel that they could have just delivered on social media and spared us all uh 90 minutes of you know not not pain but it wasn't exactly enlightening was it well that's interesting so John come in on this then in terms of the format I mean it's not easy to Corral seven let's be real big egos big political personalities who are trying to convey a message in an election campaign so how do you assess the success or otherwise of last night's debate so I if I'm honest rather sort of echo what Kirsty said and I'm not a fan of multiheaded debate last night we had a seven-way debate um I think since uh the uh debates were first broker both by the political parties and the Rival broadcasters in the spring of um 2010 now so 14 years ago there's been a if you like Mission creep significant Mission creep if you cast your minds back to the deal that was struck um 14 years ago there were going to be three debates um and they're going on different topics so we had in 2010 April 2010 a 90minut debate on the economy a 90-minute debate on home Affairs a 90-minute debate on Foreign Affairs and it was the debate was conducted by only three Party leaders ERS Nick C David Cameron and Gordon Brown and they were far less shouty events and much more light rather than the heat was generated so I think there's been um mission mission creep um and I'm in favor of a commission that takes the discussion and the coordination and the arguments away from both both the political parties and from the uh rivalis uh broadcasters a commission is set up in advance of the elections it's all sorted out months before an election is called you might have a very senior former judge a very senior former politician a very senior former media executive um and they they they coral and coordinate the debate and set the rules whereas what we did have last night and as Kirsty said it was it was a bit like that line from Beth so I'm I'm I feel there's been Mission creep and um I'm quite tempted now it depends how the debates go Sky's holding one on uh Wednesday with a very different format in in Grimsby where there'll be a setpiece interview followed by questions and answers to individual two individual leaders um I I think I'm quite tempted to sort of reinvigorate the idea of a commission because I felt last night's debate uh didn't necessarily take us that far however having said that I thought thought that we did get the arc if you like the Arc of political uh views across the UK and I did enjoy hearing from the representative of pumy from the representative of the green party which I wouldn't necessarily normally beam into yeah that's interesting isn't it Kirsty because there is something of a spotlight then put on these parties and if we consider the topics that came up last night you know the military and defense clearly the D-Day commemoration for part as well the NHS immigration the economy kind of more broadly in the cost of living tax was in there too and so it definitely does give a platform to these smaller parties uh yes it does give a platform to these smaller parties but but but you know like I said you can stick their talking points up on social media and give us all our 90 minutes back I think for me there is no substitute for a you know a long deep forensic interview with a you know with a really good journalist I mean you know I would like to you know to watch an hour of um you know Andrew Neil putting the leaders through their Paces that is something that I would I would definitely want to watch and I would definitely learn something from I think this is just a kind of rattle through of talking points uh and I I I learned one new fact last night one yeah and that's a difficulty actually that is a difficulty um Kirsty just on uh dday as well in terms of what this is doing to shape the campaign uh we've talked before on this program about uh trying to avoid you know we have kirsty's rules of campaigning and trying to avoid issues I mean this one doesn't need a rule does it you go to dday and you stick it out for the full commemorative day I think this is what you could put in the category of it's a no-brainer there's a there's a wonderful uh piece from Matthew Paris in the times today saying you know if they were in any doubt you know ask one of the policemen in Downing Street ask the cat he would have told you you stay and pay your respects I mean on every level uh this was wrong and potentially a game Cher in terms of the election it's the sort of uh it's not a gaff it's it's the sort of uh historic blunder if you like that will be talked about for years afterwards I suspect and and the issue with it is and bear in mind that you know we'd already seen an uptick in support for reform uh you know when Nigel farage entered the fry this is going to drive the very people that conservatives are trying to hold on to into the arms of Reform and because the conservatives hold on to so many marginal seats it doesn't take much of an uptick in reforms base to hand you know a lot more of those conservative seats over to labor or liberal Democrats at ston Haven where I work we do our own MP polling this was before the D-Day blunder we'd seen um you know a three 3% upswing in support for reform because of Nigel farage's entry into the contest that has cost in one week alone and that's before the blunder that cost uh the conservatives 54 seats so those Ultra marginals that they're trying to defend that is the critical problem here it's a small swing away from the tourist but it has a major impact on their seats and John just to come back to you on the can of De beats on the smaller parties and building in what cir's been saying there about the swings over the last uh sort of 14 years or so um in terms of the debates that we've seen around elections would you say that they they are important you're talking about a commission so you clearly see a value in in having these setpiece events do you think they they do change people's minds are they important for informing and I'm not I'm not sure they sorry I'm not sure they they change change people's minds but they do if you like sort of air rate the issue and remember the debates happen in prime time and yes it's a Friday night and people might want to be doing something else after a tough week but it is in Prime Time television and a lot of politics happens if you like in the sidelines of the broadcast schedule and just to take a little bit of issue with what Kirsty says about political leaders and and uh sit down uh interviews absolutely but the main politicians over the last 10 years or so have run away from doing them they do not want to be forensically interviewed live on television they shy away from it now um particular exponent of that was Boris Johnson um the debates happen in prime time they do aate the issues um and I think they're they are a good thing for democracy Kirsty um well I think if people shy away from the interviews like Boris Johnson did and John wri about that it it tells you everything you'd need to know I mean you know if if the if the labor leader steps up and wants to be interviewed for an hour by Andrew Neil and the uh the conservative leader doesn't then then you know voters can draw their own conclusion from that can't they you know and if you don't want uh you know if you haven't got the courage of your own convictions to allow yourself to be exposed to the sort of forensic interviewing that Andrew Neil is famed for then you probably shouldn't be asking people to vote for you to be the Prime Minister uh both a really interesting discussion uh lots of people getting in touch in response to what you've been saying uh let's speak again soon but thank you for now uh Kirsty Buchanan their former special adviser to Theresa May and John Riley former head of Sky News I'm going to return to a point I made post um that summer conservative leader election um in which it was rishy sunak Penny Moran and Liz truss eventually won we all know what happened after that but Liz truss won and one of the points that I remember making at the time that I'm going to stick to is that actually going for these interviews opening yourself up as a politician to a forensic interview and to examination is good for absolutely it's good for the electorate of course it is but it's also good for the politicians because it lets them examine and scrutinize their own policies accountability is good one of my arguments was if Liz truss's economic plans which weren't fully fleshed out during that summer when we were interviewing representatives from the campaign if they had been fully uh available for scrutiny would we have ended up in the situation in which we did I just wonder if politicians should acknowledge that actually an examination by the likes of times radios Andrew Neil would allow them to take their policies into the light of day and go hang on maybe I need to think about that some more actually even more than that on a very basic level we spoke yesterday to a KC who is a former World debating champion and he said one of the key things you have to do is be authentic people want authenticity if you sit down for an hour with Andrew Neil and have a chat you can show your Human Side we've had messages we always get messages why don't politicians answer the questions I wish they could be honest I wish they could be authentic you would be a to within an hour get your your political message across without having to say it 27 times you could just you could sit there and just be really you're not worried about being interrupted you can just say it but you could also show your Human Side you could maybe smile you could you you know you could become someone that people can relate to yeah um and that you know would be welcome I'm sure yeah absolutely e

Channel: Times Radio

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Id: xz9YR79jbyg

Length: 12min 10sec (730 seconds)

Published: Sat Jun 08 2024