Rinnai's Ubbink venting the difference between condensing and non condensing piping

hey youtube mike duranai guy here how we all doing today hope we all had a safe and productive week and we're enjoying installing those vernae tankless heaters all right today's video is probably the most important video that i could put out there now i've been mentioning this i've have a few videos past videos on it and this is vending now i've been trying to grab every single piece but because of the pandemic and because of uh parts being shipped from europe japan to here it's been slow so what i did was i collected enough pieces so that i can go over and show you exactly what not to use and what to use okay so follow along this is an extremely important video if you're installing whether it's a v series an rl series or the r u or r u r sensei series okay all right so a lot of my questions are you know what venting do i need for specific model and what do i need to do i have a water heater that's there now if you have an electric heater there's no vent it's just hot cold an electrical line and that's it and a tank so basically you have to put your own vent in but the first thing we're going to go over is if you have some type of gas-fired heater whether it be propane or natural gas sitting in your garage in your utility room in a closet in your attic wherever you're going to have some type of vent that's been venting that unit now you most likely are going to have a thing called be vent be vent is double wall flue pipe now this is four inch so it's a four inch inside then there is an air space between it with an outer shell and as you can see this is movable this is an elbow you can make it into a straight piece a 45 90 whatever but a straight piece or this elbow piece they don't make 45 because you can make a 45 out of it is going to look like this it's going to be a pipe within a pipe now you're looking at the rinnai and saying hey the renai is a pipe within a pipe but it is not the correct pipe so you're going to find this most likely coming through flammable material so through the roof flashing through your attic through the drywall down just past the drywall then you might have some type of regular flue pipe that goes through the roof now on some propane fired heaters you're allowed to put heavy flexible like what you would find behind the dryer that goes down into the diverter which is the thing on top of the water heater that brings air in it's got four legs it brings air in mixes up with the carbon monoxide and helps push the carbon monoxide up through the chimney so you might find this coming through so this b vent is coming through your roof then you have flue pipe that's going down sometimes they bring the v-vent all the way down to the top of the water heater which is the that diverter looks like a little cap so on the top of your tankless whether it's um a v an rl or an r u r u r series sensei you're going to find a collar like this which is a concentric collar and on the ru and rur series you're going to find this adapter which is a 5 by two adapter pushed into the top then to the left so facing the tankless to the left now this is on the condensing the r u and the r u r to the left you're gonna find a cap with a little stainless steel screw in the center that is for the fresh air so every people have been thinking that they can take this bee vent and put it to the top of the unit so something like this or something like this that is not to be done you cannot use this metal pipe whether it's this pipe or this pipe to go into the top of the unit as you can see it is not meant for it it is meant for the rolex ubink venting so as you can see it'll fit and i've seen people put tape around it put sealer in it no it cannot be used so regular flue pipe or b vent cannot be used to go into the top of any renai tankless heater the rl or ru or ru r series so you're going to remove this vent and you're going to discard it now on if you're going to go through your roof we'll go through that first so let's get these things out of the way now say you want to go through your roof you want to use the existing roof flashing what you're going to need now what i'm going to show you is going to be the same type of application for both the v r l and r u r the difference is going to be what's in the inside and i've mentioned this numerous times that the boxes are marked for condensing unit only so if you're going to go through the roof this is the vertical termination kit short they make a longer one so basically this is for condensing so it has the gray plastic inside and then the white polymer outside opposed to the silver inside and the white polymer so for those those units this is for condensing and basically it's going to fit right into the top of the unit now this one is what they call the 4x2 so it's the smaller style vent but this is vertical vent your fresh air gets sucked in through here and your carbon monoxide gets expelled through here as you can see it's movable this is your storm collar here or your your like it's a storm collar basically and this is what will either fit over vranay's boot or when you alter the roof flashing that was from the bee vent that goes through your roof and go back i have a video on that on how to make a template how to cut it and how to slip this through the roof and then the flashing from the b vent will slide right into here a little stainless steel screw here here and here and one third places into it put some roof cement around this and as i say bob's your uncle so on all vertical vent you're going to get this vertical vent you're going to get a clamp so basically this thing will go around it it's it's got it's like a ratcheting cinch clamp and then this moves in different positions so that you can screw this to either your roof rafter a trust or some wood that you build out that will then hold this nice and steady you're going to get an instruction manual that shows all of the venting and on the condensing model only so this is the one with the plastic inside you're going to get this packet of lube now what you're going to do get this back in the box and grab here is an elbow for condensing you're going to take just a little bit of this lube now this packet is enough to do a quite a bit of piping you're going to put a little bit of this lube on this seal and this seal you don't have to butter it like a buttering toast just a little bit it helps to push the plastics in you're not going to get this on the vertical vent for non-condensing that has the metal inside that goes in pretty easy but the plastic and the friction causes um that a lot of heat and this lube helps push it in once it's in even with the lube it is the dickens to try to get out so you have to be pretty accurate with your measurements when you cut it to assemble it so that's what's going to come inside of the vertical vent you're also going to get that lube inside of the horizontal vent kit which we're going to get to in a minute now let me show you this box this box just dropped it this box see what it says for condensing appliances only so this here and as you can see it says condensing roof discharge terminal short for condensing appliances only that is the piping that you are going to use for your ru and your rur series so this is a 19 and a half inch piece see what it says and this is your pipe 19 and a half inches and every box no matter whether it's for condensing appliances or non-condensing appliances you're going to get your little bag of quarter by half inch screws that you're going to put in this position right here right above this lip and what it does is it when you push these in they screw the white pieces together to prevent them from pulling apart so every single box gets this bag of three screws now if we go now and look at this is a 10 inch piece notice this box says nothing just 10 inch piece why because it's four and again little bag of screws this is for the v and the rl series metal inside same white polymer outside but the metal inside so for condensing condensing condensates condensates caustic when it goes through this metal it'll tear up this metal where that plastic is designed for caustic condensate so your piping is going to be 10 19.5 and 39 that's your pipe then you can get boxes of single elbows now this happens to be the horizontal vent kit let me just make some room here this is the horizontal vent kit now this is short they make 11.5 and 21 but this happens to be the eight this is your shortie and this is for plastic inside condensing you're going to get this termination all right you're going to get one elbow you're going to get of course a packet of three screws and then you're going to get a black thimble and a white thimble black thimble pushed on to go outside and the white thimble is for the inside then your elbow that gets pushed in this way every horizontal vent and i'll show you the three to five on the unit on the tells you what the top is so when you're inside the house and you're putting this together as you can see the silver sticker says top so it tells you which way the top is so you want that to be facing just like this when it's outside just like that so but i'll go over this in a second why this is a smaller one so now on your horizontal vent you're going to a spec on a regular v and rl series interior you're just going to have this collar on your ru and your ru r you're going to have this on if you're going to use concentric venting you're going to remove this and discard it always good to keep one and then your concentric venting will slip right over the collar then you put your piece in through the wall with your two thimbles and now you're vented or in the case of the horizontal vent if it's a straight run you might have to run some pipe up to that piece and then through the roof on these two the black the black with this thimble is the only thing to be sticking outside the house if you happen to have a little bit of white sticking out so when you when you measure the cutting and again go back in a past video i go through a complete cutting of one of these uh venting no matter if it's the condensing or non-condensing it's all cut exactly the same and we're gonna go through that in a second so black is the only thing to be sticking out of the wall or the roof well there's no thimble with this remember the flashing whether it's like a new house or you buy the renai roof boot and you put it and re-roof it and then push this through this goes up into there into so the flashing goes up into this this is the storm collar this black and that black with the thimble are the only things to be sticking out if for some reason you have a half inch or something your measurement was off you have to paint it but when you take your measurement and you assemble this try your best only have black now if you go onto my instagram channel and i'll put that in the description below i just photographed the job we did yesterday and exactly how the vent is supposed to look and that is horizontal going through the wall so now on this unit this is the two by five it has a smaller and it's the short version again it's got the top it's going to come with screws it's going to come with um a thing of lube this and this is used for a are you are you are this will fit over the collar again your fresh air is stays plugged and then this goes through the wall mutes a small event that will go through the wall it's just another option for you to vent this now if you don't want to vent with grab a piece of pipe if you do not want to vent or you can vent with the pvc you're going to leave this collar on you're going to remove the cap that's on the left side remember with fit you people there or the tankless so i'm facing you so to the left of this this is dead center you're going to have a cap with a screw you're going to take that off you can vent it with two inch schedule 40 pvc red leather not foam core so this fits right into there like that and then you could put an elbow and go right out the wall or go 45 up through the roof and then your air intake also if you're going to say go up and out this if it's a large garage you can use room air if not you go out the wall these two have to be 12 but i like them 14 inches apart 45 with the screens in them you can go back into my ru r series unit uh video the seven part series and see that i actually have a wall that i show it so if you're gonna do it with pvc schedule 40 pressure not foam core you can use the sewer fittings because those are um schedule 40. there's no foam core in them it's the pipe that has a foam core basically it's got a phone call and the condensate will tear up the pvc so pressure red letter now home depot sells pressure that's black letter you just got to read it it has to say schedule 40 on it all right now what else do they make they make 45s and you get them two to a box so an elbow if you have to buy elbows they're going to come one in a box remember you're going to get an elbow with whatever horizontal vent the 8 the 11.5 or the 21 you're going to get an elbow but if you need to buy additional elbows you're going to get one to a box in the 45s you get two door box and what else do you get your little bag of screws so to look at the elbows this is an elbow with the metal inside here's your elbow with the plastic inside they look exactly identical but for non-condensing for condensing all right two to a box and we'll bring the box over let me just put them back in the right box okay this is the 45. let me get the boxes over here so again 45 for condensing units only and here is the box 45 degree bends quantity two does not save for condensing now cutting these what do you need to do we're going to remove the unit the pieces all right look at the end here what do you see you see more of the silver sticking out than the white and [Music] you have exactly one half of an inch of the silver sticking out that's for engagement so and again this is for the silver non-condensing and the plastic condensing it is the same just the inside is different cutting it and prepping it is the same way so you see here when this pipe is going into this pipe it engages first you see you could still see some of a space there so when i push this in and i can't push it because i'll never get it out this pipe has to go in further into this center then this pipe only goes into about three quarters of the way down here that's why you're putting those screws here and not over here not over here right here so what happens and here is a perfect example of somebody cutting this and then installing it you see here i this is a this is my demo piece they cut it with a sawzall and they just cut it straight straight down so this is right flush with the white now what happens the inner is where the carbon monoxide goes out now think of it this way on a v and an rl series it's 86 percent efficient so the 86 to 100 is the difference in what is expelled through the um uh center for the carbon monoxide the um condensing is 97 efficient so it's got a lower carbon monoxide rate going through lower heat and that's why you could use the pvc and it has plastic so what happens is the outer shell here this outer shell is where the fresh air gets sucked in that's why it's called concentric piping pipe within a pipe the air gets sucked in through the outer shell gets drawn in through the fan goes up into the burner mixes with the fuel makes combustion same thing with a car whether it's a diesel or gasoline same thing you have uh air fuel spark boom again what do i say bob's your uncle now when you have no separation between the inner core and the outer core the fan sucks in the carbon monoxide to co create combustion which is already a byproduct of combustion and really makes the draenei or any tankless sound and dance horribly so that's why it is very important to now i made a mark here so when you take your measurement you make your mark you put a wrap around again go into my past video and you will see how to cut it you put a wrap around tape it mark it with your magic your marker and then you're just going to go around spinning this and cut it so the white falls away leaving the silver exposed then you're going to measure from the white half inch out on the silver you're going to mark it and then you're going to cut it now of course you're going to need a reciprocating saw or a very good fine hacksaw to do the metal and of course you could do it with a hacksaw or a reciprocating saw for the plastic but then once you cut it now you're half inch longer now you have to bevel it you have to clean it and then you have to blow it out because you don't want none of those filings left in this pipe that gets sucked back into the fan okay so that's why i keep this thing i don't use it this is my demo piece what not to do you need to be a half inch out for this to engage you see the inner is engaged already but you still see there's light there's a space and then once you push this in that's what makes the seal between the inner and the outer core alright so to go back a second if you have this if you have this they do not go down to vent the tankless if it's in a garage it mo it'll work you'll get the unit because what's going to happen is this is gonna fit over that but still leave space for air to get sucked in so it's gonna work and i've had people that that sent me that message me and then sent me photos and said but this thing's been working for two years yeah it's in your garage it has air but the carbon monoxide has been going out this condensates been coming back it hasn't been balanced correctly and it has torn up the unit and that's why you're now getting a code 11 a code 12 or a code 11 and a 12 because the entire heat exchanger and burner are just rotted away so if you have this if you have this or if you have some type of a flexible connector going from the ceiling down to the water heater it cannot be used take it apart tape up the piece going through the roof if you're on an outside wall use the horizontal vent or if you're going to take it all out and go through the roof whether it's be with the uh vertical vent or with the um uh pvc that's what's used so again not to be used this one or this one it is eubank venting and it is for condensing units only if you have an ru and an rur series and then just the non-mark box that ha and it's the pipe with the metal inside that's for uh non-condensing now some of the boxes were at one time marked for non-condensing so you might get a supply house that still has an old stock so if the box says for non-condensing you're right but if it says for condensing and you have a v or an rl series you're wrong all right i hope this answers a lot of questions because like i said this is the this is the most asked question that i get or the most bad install that i see when they send me pictures and this will will destroy your unit you you run an undersized gas pipe you put your gas regulator too close the units got safeties in it it'll lock out but like i said i've had people that had these things installed for two years and finally they burned out thousand dollar eighteen hundred dollar unit you know between a thousand and eighteen hundred dollars they're thrown in the garbage and if they're installed correctly serviced they'll last you twenty years okay all right youtube i'd like to thank everybody for all of those questions those comments those comments back after i've been helping you um all of the likes all the subscribes hit the little ding the little bell and um you'll be notified when my videos come out which pretty much is every saturday so i'll have my instagram below take a look at exactly how the horizontal vent through the wall is supposed to look and we just did it yesterday and it was a perfect picture because there was no bushes no nothing around it it was a perfect picture to take to show okay youtube you all be safe out there enjoy your endless hot water and i will see you on the next video bye bye now

Channel: That Tankless Guy

Views: 19,770

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Id: 8ZBI9gDG2po

Length: 31min 39sec (1899 seconds)

Published: Sun Jan 31 2021