Revit Groups vs Links

[Music] so [Music] there is no sound there it is hey oh whoa whoa whoa there i am there i am there i am they're probably hearing the music but not me sorry guys i had us muted because aaron and i don't stop talking in the background before we start hey everyone welcome uh my name is jeff also known as the revit kid what you missed me say was just that this is episode 59 of bim after dark live thanks for joining us uh this is a weekly live stream where we talk about revit bim and all kinds of things adjacent sometimes it's me sometimes it's guest like tonight uh the topic tonight is uh the always debated um groups versus links in revit so i'm sure i'm sure that whatever we talk about tonight we'll continue the debate on twitter afterwards but i think you guys are going to be super interested to hear our intake especially our input especially my guest aaron's input on this never-ending question i feel like i've been blogging about revit for 12 years now and i think every every year i get at least three or four times an email about this question today so maybe now i can just point to this episode and say here's your answer so before we jump into the tip of the week i did want to introduce my guest you guys know him he's been on the show oh boy i don't even know i meant to count before we jumped on aaron but i i i didn't count um but i i didn't either i should have before it was bim after dark live you were on a couple times and then when it was been off the dark live you've been on at least three or four times so welcome back aaron mahler how's it going great to be here thanks for having me of course uh before we jump in if folks who are here live with us don't know who you are maybe uh give a brief little bio on who you are what you do and why you're on this little show with me yeah absolutely my name is aaron mallor i run a small group a bim consultancy called parallax team uh we are five and a half people uh that all come from architecture landscape architecture construction tech software development we're all still passionate about delivering projects my background is in architecture i went to school in new york and had to deliver shopping malls back when that was a thing which was uh ironically some of my first projects in revit were multi-phase multi-million square feet so the links and groups thing has come up a lot in the past uh 15 years for me awesome i wanted to remind everyone as well that this is live if you're here tonight 9pm um to ask questions comment i'm sure we're going to be checking out the chat along the way and i'm sure there's going to be lots of input and heckling going on so we will uh we'll keep an eye on that as we jump into the content but before we do jump into uh aaron's content um i did want to of course do our big bad bim tip of the week so let's roll that roll that sound roll the music here we go so those who don't know what the big bad bim tip of the week is it's a little segment that i started here sponsored by enscape where you send me a tip and if i choose your tip to share here on the show i will send you a free t-shirt so uh awesome our tip this week is from james and uh it has to do believe it or not with slab edges so i'm gonna pull it up real quick james thank you for sending in the tip um those of you who don't know what a slab edge is um it's it's just an object in revit uh that kind of acts like a fascia if you're familiar with that um but it allows you to add what you would think a slab edge so i'm drawing it here um it's a thick and slab edge right so anyone who hasn't done it before it's under floor you add it this is what it looks like well the tip from james is a great one which is did you know that you can host slab edges to model lines so here i am hosting a slab edge to a model line and i know you're thinking probably why would i want to do that well i know a lot of people who use slab edges to do things like cornices and wall sweeps and sort of interior details that's one way you can use them because as you may know wall sweeps can be a pain but and so by doing that guess what you can create a slab edge type that's actually crown molding right and you can now loop that around instead of having to do a slab edge and offset it from your floor not only that but you can also take your model lines and you can host them or lock them i should say to let's say a ceiling because you can't you can't sweep around a ceiling with anything and you can actually add a slab edge to the ceiling and now you've got yourself a crown molding attached to our ceiling element that will modify with the ceiling element so kind of cool cool tip something that um a lot of people don't know about and so james thank you for sending that tip in i appreciate it oops i just clicked the wrong button there where's everyone you just saw my son's face i lost you aaron hold on a second i'm still here we're watching your revit screen [Laughter] yeah there's a little delay there so james thank you that's true thank you for the tip i appreciate it um thank you enscape for sponsoring this segment for those of you uh interested in checking out enscape head on over to enscape.bimafterdark.com and you will actually save 10 off a um a subscription to enscape so enscape.bimafterdark.com thanks a lot guys uh and thanks james so if you guys got tips feel free to send them off kind of cool uh did you know that aaron um i did but it's always awesome and exciting to hear that other people are using it as well because uh you know a lot of folks have looked at me as crazy when i recommended hosting things to model lines so i'm loving that somebody else is doing it that's awesome no no i actually if when when you recommend that are you are you locking model lines to elements like i was just like i was suggesting or not not necessarily you like to treat him separate so this goes down like a rabbit hole i'm generally against the locking uh just because of the sheer size and number of elements in a lot of the projects that i work in once things start to get locked everything starts to grind into a halt but it's also interesting i mean this is this is another whole episode but i mean some of the differences between slab edges and what roof fascias are allowed to do is quite intriguing so there's a whole conversation there people get frustrated in my revit training class because i'm like model everything is roofs and it's totally true um did a project recently uh where the ceilings are all roofs no joke because then you can do crown moldings out of like roof fascias and not need the lines but i love using the lines the lines are great that's a great point and and actually anyone who's interested i'll post a link to it but um aaron's episode i think it was not filters it was was it filters or was it the template it might have been the template it might have been the template one but it could have been the filter one either one we talked a little bit about how uh you know using just because revit decided to categorize something as something doesn't mean that you necessarily have to use it for that reason it's kind of the kind of the idea there there's ways around it other than just using the category right so category reprisals definitely yes yep we got a lot a lot of people in the chat we got james van is here hey james what's up man wow um i don't i don't know if that actually i didn't know what james it was i'll be really funny if it was james fan but uh jim balding's here how's it going jason awesome guys cool cool cool uh all right i need to catch up on your butt awesome all right so let's do this man i think i think we're ready i think we're ready i think we're ready to start we got like 100 people here ready to figure out nice what aaron mahler thinks about links versus groups and i can't wait to hear it either should we give him the cliff's notes and give him the answer on slide one no no no we gotta have some suspicion they get the answer they get the answer by slide six i gotta at least finish my drink before we get to the end totally totally okay so yeah we'll jump in uh here's the cool thing i got a whole bunch of fun stuff open i hope it's fun to look at um we're not gonna do a whole lot of powerpoint but unfortunately there's a lot of talking points in this topic so i thought i'd just throw a couple slides together what's really weird is like whenever somebody and we get at parallax at least we get questions all the time about links versus groups and the trouble is people ask the question links versus groups as if it's a unilateral wanna answer thing for every building typology and every situation so we have to first address like what the actual question is that we're asking about and so i'm gonna use multifamily you know for today's talk because a lot of our clients do multi-family but it also applies to health care it also applies to other building typologies we're really just talking about repetitious units but the question is is it basically a larger building where there is only one sub element so in this case you're talking about like multi-family with apartments right the apartment is the sub-element then there's other types of projects where you know if it's multi-family it's garden style but it might be hospitality it might be a resort there might be townhouses and then you're talking about the entire building is the repetitious element and then there might still be a sub repetitious element below and so the reason i just like to say you can't really say like links or groups definitively because in this garden style example which one are you talking about the building that's repeating or the apartment that's repeating in the building that's repeating do you know what i mean so i always like to bring that up before we jump into like what is what i would say the answer then there is one other kind of problem and that is a lot of my clients get frustrated when i ask this but the moment they're like should we use links or groups and i'm like well let's talk about how your project has to get submitted and and the reason for this we're not going to talk about all four of these right away but some of these are what i call automatic decision makers right so but you've got a building where it's one giant set of drawings and that's cool then you've got option two which is like it's one giant set of drawings but each building has its own distinct plans like the plan sheets do not overlap building two is its own plan that's cool because i come from a shopping mall background there is then also like projects where there's like six buildings but they're not broken up plan by plan they're still broken up on like a grid because it's all common space and kiosks and stuff in the middle and so in that case you know the third one that we're looking at here the situation's a little different and the last one is kind of interesting to me because that's when clients come up and they say yeah it's five buildings on a site but each building is gets submitted as its own permit so in that situation you're not really talking about the same thing oh that's right i did this little thing here just showing the same uh yeah we'll just get through that no one likes powerpoint so the first and the last one are really the same thing because the moment somebody says we have five buildings but they're all going in for permits separately i'm like they are all their own project like if you want to have a site model and link them all together just for rendering that's cool but if you're getting five permits you've got five sets of revisions you've gotta track you've got five project numbers essentially you've got five versions of the thing on top so at that point it's like everyone has its own file the only reason i'm gonna throw that out there is because for me like the moment you need a different drawing set all the front end and back end stuff that's in our template like the legends the cover sheets the schedules all that stuff i don't want to spend the time to duplicate that so if there's different permits i want every building in its own file personally so but at that at that point we're just talking about the building types of element being the link and then there's still these apartments that are what i'm going to call the main repetitious unit um and surprise surprise i mean if you didn't know this already from those of you who have talked to me what we use for the smaller repetitious units is always going to be model groups it's not going to be file links we're going to get into why but before we do that i want to list out the pros and cons and this is an exhausting two slides because it's just a ton of text and nobody likes that but let's just go through what are the cool things about groups and then the crummy things about groups we'll do the same for links and then i'm going to actually open some revit models to show you guys a few things so groups yeah it's nice that they're all in one file when you're opening or reloading a linked file you don't have a bunch of dimensions that are vanishing and then you get stuck in the daisy chain of sync with central and reload because somebody else deleted a dimension and all that kind of good stuff so it's nice when groups are all in one file so as somebody who likes working with contractors and subcontractors a lot what's a really big deal to me is that when things are in model groups they are still all discrete elements so if you have an apartment type a and you have 50 instances of a link in there sure there can still be 50 instances in navisworks but whenever you're looking at the data from that model there aren't really 50 of those things i mean there's 50 if you compound the schedule from all the links but it's annoying and you can't actually give them all discrete identity data unless you do it in a third-party software so for me that's kind of a miserable non-starter that's why i like the groups another one is how you actually annotate in groups and what i like about that is it's all in one file so we're going to talk a decent amount about links and the different ways you can annotate through them cliff's notes it all sucks none of it's good if you've got to annotate a link file from your file just your life is pretty much miserable and that's kind of it just is what it is uh the other thing i like about groups is they're fast like if you want to duplicate a group or make a new group you can just you know edit type duplicate you can blow it away and create a new group what i thought was going to be really cool when they made the feature was this thing called excluding elements but i put it in quotes because it's awful so no one should ever do it and unfortunately revit does it by itself which is just that's a we'll put that in the cons column i think i forgot to put it in um and again what i really like about when you've got a whole file that's just full of model groups is when you want to export it to navisworks or any third-party downstream software it's super efficient because it's already in one model and everything's good to go okay so what sucks about groups and the answer is a lot right so these are all in air quotes because these are all just things that we've heard over the years like groups can't be mirrored or they shouldn't be mirrored and they shouldn't be rotated and i can't tell you how many times i read on reddit like if you put groups in groups you're bad and i'm like all right it's cool i'm bad i think that's uh i think that's uh yeah anyways and then i hear that groups are lousy for performance like they slow down models they make models huge they cause corruptions uh and this is not an air quotes because it is true if you work in the api groups do suck john and i go back and forth about this all the time because like i use a ton of model groups and the api is just like a kick in the nuts when you want to work with groups because like half of it's not there so that's kind of rough um and yeah obviously we're gonna the fixed group thing it stinks none of us like it you go to finish a group it tells you it's gonna break a bunch of stuff your day is ruined that's that is a reality so we'll leave that one out there um the last one we're gonna mention i think it's the last one there might be one below it varying floor to floor heights sucks with groups because the only way you can do it is to attach the walls to other elements which is very scary because it will let you do it we're not we're not really going to hold this against groups because the same con exists in links as well so we'll come back to that uh in just a couple of minutes by the way i do see a cool question from from mitchell in the chat about where do nested and super families fit into the group's links debate um i will get to that i don't have a slide for it but i'm going to bring that up in a few minutes because that's an awesome question so before we move on i did want to unpack a couple of those things that i think are totally that i don't think i don't think a lot of people think about or realize and the the the um the idea that groups have their own distinct elements versus the links is a huge one um and maybe it's because you know we're coming at it from also downstream use of models but but you know the the reality of those elements having their own unique identifier and and data is huge right absolutely especially if if you and i think more of us even on the design side are using other third-party tools down the road of their models and and that's the kind of stuff that will burn you if if if if you don't realize it and so i think that's a great one um and then so so and then as far as the cons in quotes so i'm curious because i'm sure some people may ask it but um are you suggesting these are myths or do you have uh do you have experience that these are truth in the in the context for example you have you have two you have two slides to go my friend you can't ask that question i'll let him go i'll let it go all right all right the model data part because i think that is a big deal um you know i work on a lot of health care work and and different design teams will work different ways and a lot of one a lot of them will use links and that's one of the things we found out you know that can be a little bit of a pain in the butt is that if you use a room type c for the patient rooms and then it's duplicated 400 times that room type c as a link it's the same elements every 400 times and that can be a little tricky down the road depending on what you're using the model for for sure so so yeah this came up as early as 2007 for me i'm one of the first malls that we did where i mean in o7 we weren't giving the model to the owner but there were people who wanted the model downstream and the way i approach it now is as we get further into this discussion you'll find out that for the kind of work that we do links are an absolute non-starter and as an example let's say we represent a building owner or a developer and they want a model for fm well to your point jeff if you've got 500 copies of link roon type d they all basically share a lot of identity data now the solution a lot of people come up with is okay right before we turn it over for fm we'll bind all those links now they're not this but but now they're not the same elements that they were when they were in 3d coordination and asset tracking they've gotten completely new element ids they've got brand new everything so it's completely a non-starter for me but yeah we're going to come back to that just so you know there is a slide where we're going to look at both sets of cons and talk about what's real and what's not got it so the ones in quotes for coming back to those awesome awesome dh design said i wish both of you were at autodesk university this week i don't know where he went but i think it's virtually isn't it i was i i don't everybody wants to hang out with us you could just you know dm me on twitter and we'll zoom in yeah drinking because there is nobody totally totally i sat on a great panel with pervy who's who's hanging out in the in the chat and uh yeah i wish i was at you too i i actually missed the sadistic hotel walk like i do i miss it um but okay let's jump into the same slide oh i did forget a couple all right so these are real as well when you've got groups and you've got to reload a family that's in like every group of the project it sucks and there are work-sharing complications as well we'll talk about those in a few minutes and just to wrap that up when you have multiple files that have the same groups in them it is doable but it is complicated and so we'll come back to that in a few minutes um but let's jump into the same slide for links now right and and i want to be clear about this because when you write the pros and cons out links do win uh and i admit that and i'm also going to be clear about the fact that i have done projects with both groups and links and i tried it with links first because coming from an autocad background that was the language i was used to like x revit to the hilt you know so anyways uh links you know the pros of links is they should be super lightweight in theory because those elements aren't really there and since it's a copy and it's a reference oh my gosh it should be super lightweight in theory right so it doesn't break and this is a real benefit right you don't get the fixed group garbage all the time which is awesome you know the individual rooms will not explode uh reloading families and types pretty stable so that's cool there aren't work sharing complications the way there are with groups and that is a real benefit that links get making them unique i'm going to call this one a tie because opening a link and doing a save as just so you can relink it that kind of sucks i don't really like it but it's stable so you know your mileage may vary there how you document with links i'm old i've been using revit a long time so i was using revit before bi-linked view even existed for sections and elevations so how you document with linked files we'll talk about it in a few minutes i'm not going to call it a pro but it is nice for people who like it uh because you do have the option where you want to do your documentation and this one i'm going to throw it in there as something that's possible and i naively made a project team do this once and i'll never do it again but one interesting one interesting thing about lynx as repetitive units is you can leverage design options in the linked file to make variations of units and not have to do a save as don't ever beep do it it's just awful but you can do it and just just reading that i was just going like this i've been there i've tried it too it is yeah totally totally okay so so things that are bad about links obviously you know you've got multiple files you have to move between them let's let's dispel one myth though a lot of people think that to open a linked file you have to unload it that's completely not true you have to unload it if you open the central file of the linked file but if all your units are work shared you can open a local of the unit and it will not make you unload it from your main model so there's this like myth that like you have to unload them and that's because people do it from the project browser which always opens to central so just an interesting thing a big issue uh and i'll show you a handout and jeff i'll send you these handouts that you can you can give out later if you want but a big issue is like how do you annotate linked files i want to say it was 2012 or 2013 or 2014. we got the ability to tag and keynote through links uh it was new at the time um might have might have been earlier i might be wrong might have been known i know 2012 is when we were able to tag rooms through a link okay so so very specifically being on a project where we actually split it up and linked because we couldn't the project was so big that we couldn't keep it one file you know back when when revit you know had the memory limit and all that good stuff and so oh yeah and so it was huge we actually upgraded the file because we're like oh my god we can actually tag things through our link so maybe it was around there the keynotes also but i know for a fact that that was rooms and some of the other elements wall tags and stuff like that yeah totally and so jason in the in the chat just asked like what about on bim360 where it doesn't let you open the local well you just can't do it from the project browser you can still do it you just go to the home page and open the unit like as a local file right but yeah but so back to the annotating thing um you can tag or keynote through the link what's scary about that is then on file open you've got all the stuff getting blown away the tags get orphaned the keynotes are throwing up errors all that kind of stuff the old school way like pre-2012 was buy linked view so you know you went into vg rvt link custom bi-linked view picked a view that was annotated in the linked file and i'm going to reference an old au handout that haunts me that i wrote back in 2011. and people keep emailing it to me and they're like does this mean you like links and i'm like oh my god it's a decade old give me a pass on this well yeah it's a horrible handout i mean it was about how we did a project with lynx when we were doing them with links and that was before we tried it with groups right so problem is once you write it and it's out there on the internet it's just it never dies um yeah right and so the other issue and this is uh so you know you have what do you dimension to when you're working with links are you doing it all in the linked file so you have to be committed to being completely in the link and everything is bi-linked view or are you dimensioning in the host file two things in the link for me that's a dangerous proposition uh even as recently as revit 2021 we uncovered a bizarre issue recently where no joke if you dimension to a rectangular edge of an object in a linked file and then reload the link it survives if you do a radius or a diameter on a linked object it automatically gets deleted when you reload the link so there's that uh a few more cons and then we'll jump into cool stuff the nuance it's a nuance it's a nuance right so back to your point if you have apartment type d or operating room d or triage room d whatever and you're linking them in are you doing it as overlay versus attachment because let's be clear about what this question means this question means who are you screwing and when that's the whole thing overlay is what we really want to be doing because now our files lightweight when we send it you know that the units aren't all really linked in and oh my gosh i sent the file to mep and they have no units so what are they supposed to do now they're supposed to manually link in all the units and go place them as well that's the definition of what overlay is for but it's brutal well if you set all your units to attachment now when your file is a link for structuring mep they have to keep a novel on their desk because when they're opening your model it takes like 25 minutes so that's somewhere where you know the links are just kind of brutal now there's a whole discussion that can be had about rooms and areas and spaces and what happens with bounding when you're using linked files as bounding elements and then you unlink the files temporarily i can't go too far down this rabbit hole but there's some interesting data to suggest that you know when you unlink a core and shell model from an interior model all the rooms suddenly become unbound it generates like a thousand warnings now we all know that if you just relink the model again or reload the model the bounding areas all get solved the performance doesn't come back until you restart the model until you close the model and open it again don't know why i have done some time tests related to this the warnings do disappear but the performance stays in that degree degradation until you until you at least close the model and go back in yeah it's bizarre not to be fair i haven't really tested that since like 2016 but i know it was like that in 2016. so um and then here's a really interesting question and this is not meant to be a plug for guardian from harley brunette at iconic bim but it kind of is so if you want to work in five files or 10 files you want to have 10 apartment files and a building file you know it's not just about you know reloading content like an app to do the reloading who's checking to see which version of which content is in each apartment so an example is a cabinet so we have cabinets that have shared nested doors shared nested hardware all that kind of stuff but also the cabinets themselves are type cataloged and you can change the size so if there's a 30 by 24 in the building file but i've changed 30 by 24 don't ask why i would do this to have like an eight inch drawer instead of a six inch drawer and that's not showing in a schedule what if i didn't make that same change in all 10 of the units now i have conflicting families and depending on where you're doing your documentation again are the unit plans all elevated in the unit files with the older version of the cabinet and that applies for system families as well but if you've changed a wall type what if you've changed a roof type so this is tough because where groups are a little wild to interact with on a day-to-day basis like with links the question is is somebody actually guaranteeing that every file that you have uses the exact same content because this is where architects like to tell me like i have an architect i will manage that i just tried to side eye and architect but there wasn't one in the room i'm not really sure what to do with that um okay so back to the design options i mean you do technically decided an architect right i mean you're looking at me there you go there you go depending on where your zoom is so and of course yeah so linked models also this is tough because when you're in the building file and you're looking at apartments that are links there isn't a project-wide global visibility state for any of those apartment links so we forget this just like a cad import every view in a model every link gets a different visibility state which means what what how do you explain to a consultant what is the actual view of the building at any one time and especially if you start messing with the design options that'll just kill amazing and design it yeah i mean it's it's i've said i've said it once and i'll say it again if to design teams who send us models as the contractor uh i don't care what you have in their primary is always what i'm using because i'm not sorting through your design options so exactly exactly if you whatever you want us to see set at the primary because i'm not figuring that out i'm sorry totally totally but by the way some of these some of these comments are gold yeah yeah i was meeting a few of them there's actually a couple interesting group questions and issues that i think you'll probably you'll probably have some great uh demo on cool i'll go fast because we're almost done with powerpoint i'll go fast and then we can get back to the questions but some of these are great so you know steve goodmanson is talking about having like two sessions open steve just to make you feel good we have eight open right now in the background so we can show you some models um but okay so let's jump right in to open links having two sessions yeah so have two sessions open which is which which works yeah um so okay so um again varying floor to floor height still sucks with links now this is what i really want to talk about it's a big part of today's talk whenever i'm listing out pros and cons for links and groups something that doesn't come up because we don't think about it like on paper this should not be a case there is a massive disparity in performance of graphical regeneration when everything is links i don't know why it is um i i'd love to talk to some people at the factory about it but the the gist of it is for whatever reason the higher the number of links are in the view that needs to regenerate just the slower it goes um so where this really gets to be interesting is any of you who have done a project where apartments are links you know that there's the spin wheel of death if you try to cut a building section and what happens is you start cutting the section and as you drag the line across it just spin wheels and spin wheels and the cursor doesn't come back so you're like trying to find the cursor so you can click the second end of the section and it's just spin wheeling and spin wheeling and spin wheeling that's because the units are links and there there are some workarounds to dealing with it so i worked with uh somebody else in the bim community who really wanted to do a project with lynx and his answer was well if you just go into manage links and unload all of the units when you go to cut the section then it works okay and i'm like that's i'm like you know if i close the project and just draw it on that drafting table back where it works too um so all the yeah so i mean it does work though like if you hide all the links or if they're not on uh then cutting a section works but um but then you're not counting in the amount of time to reload all the links after the fact reloading all the links probably at the same amount of time to do both processes so now follow that daisy chain uh you've got to unload and reload all the links all the work sharing errors that may pop up because somebody else edited a link any dimensions that got deleted because you reloaded the link like you've now got a plethora of things to deal with which is just miserable so here's what we're going to do on this slide real quick these are only the cons from both and they're color coded so what we're gonna do here is we're gonna talk about which things are real and which things are not okay so things in green not real problems totally solvable things in orange are true but not a huge ordeal depending on your tolerance for dealing with them now things in red are still solvable uh but in my and again you know this is solely my opinion but these things are kind of deal-breakers for me um and so we're just going to talk about them real quick and then we'll jump into the models so it'll probably blow a lot of people's minds maybe to understand that the whole shouldn't be mirrored shouldn't be rotated and groups and groups are bad is all a misunderstanding about what the software wants you to do it's uh and i'll show you i'll show you where the misunderstanding comes from and i'm actually i want to give the revit development and the qa team a solid because i did a presentation in australia in 14 about these particular for me i'm sure they knew about them but mysteriously a few years ago a number of those problems just completely went away they were they were solvable back then but now they're just gone and melissa and i accidentally realized they had fixed it a couple years ago um i think melissa found out because we were goofing around with ceilings and light fixtures nice so okay on the uh on the on the group side we've got the things that are in orange that are true groups make models large that's 100 true here's something i think everybody should know and people hear me say this a lot they think i'm a zealot but it is true that when models have problems they get physically large it is not true that just because a model is physically large it has problems so i've got four or five models open right now on this computer most of them are over a gigabyte in size for the single model we're going to look at the point is if you're building a model very well but it just has tons of stuff in it it'll get huge and that's all good but it's okay now if your model doesn't mean right right now if your model is bad because it's a one-story building and it has 10 000 warnings in it it's going to be 500 bags and everybody's going to be like oh my god 500 meg says revit's limit and it dies and it's not really the case right now the damn fix group thing that's legit it's a problem it stinks um it's solvable but yeah it does it does kind of stink um and so a couple of these other things for groups that we were looking at is like you know reloading families is tough the work sharing complications are tough and a model that is built with groups because all the elements do really exist in the file you will need a lot of ram that is a real thing um how much ram i mean we're not talking about a deal breaker here like my machine had 64. i only had one project that needed more than 64 and it was an edge case that's that's pretty mainstream right now like i mean you can get by with 32 for a lot yeah um but here is where the line in the sand really is for me and that is i want to talk about a couple of the cons of linked files because the question is where are you annotating and i'm going to make it really simple so here is our building and then here is our apartment file which we know lives over here now the trouble is a lot of people get wishy-washy when you talk about you know annotations so the question is really let's assume you're in the apartment and you have to start dimensioning stuff to grid lines where does the dimension go if it goes in the green file you can't dimension to the grid lines because they're in the red file now let's assume you copy monitored them now let's let's disregard for a second that that couldn't really happen because the unit exists hundreds of times in the building right in different locations but let's pretend it was possible okay what everybody forgets is that if you then dimension this and then you re you you lo you link it into here this view in green does not see this grid it sees this grid and that dimension will not automatically jump it's not like some morphing thing at which point this dimension is just gone and this is where people get a little wishy-washy and they're like well i dimensioned most of my units in the unit file but then i go back to the parent file and i put a few dimensions in there and i'm like this is how drawings end up looking like bags of trash because you can't go to one view and see the whole set of drawings it's just a mess so your other option is you can do bi-linked view where now everything has to be dimensioned in here and you can make that work again if the grids are all there and then you also commit that in this view you're not showing these grids at all and you're only showing the ones from the linked file now you can't adjust any grid heads the bubbles end where they end not awesome right uh so john's in the comments saying links are better yes i like john's imported sketchup method that was the best um so again even though it seems kind of silly that annotations is really going to be one of the issues between the hardships of annotations and the massive issue that happens with view regeneration to me links are automatically going to be a non-starter the nail in the coffin for me is really that updating the content in the linked files becomes its own full-time job you know as we said before system families and uh and content alike you know that if you try to do like a bulk reload or a bulk copy and paste a lot of times revit will say hey it's already loaded here i'm going to just use the definition that's in the file already that's like the opposite of what we're trying to do so this is going to make links kind of brutal but i want to go back because obviously now you know that the answer for me is going to be groups are the way to go right but i want to talk about all these things that aren't real problems that people think are so we're going to bail on this powerpoint now phew enough of that all right okay here's my illustrious revit 2014 that i had to dig out just for today um all you get is the revit sample file because parallax didn't exist in 2014 so i don't have squat now what i want to show you here uh it's very real we're going to make a group i'm going to steal one of their chairs we'll put some chairs and some corners here like this look at that two on the top right two on the bottom top right bottom left yeah i got that we'll group it and now we'll do basically all the stuff that people said we shouldn't do right so let's mirror this group we'll make a copy let's mirror this group at an angle we'll do that that's fun let's whoops okay let's do that hey let's take these two and make them groups in groups and then we'll copy that and let's go edit one of the groups that's inside the group because we said we weren't going to do that either and look everything's okay so where did this reputation come from that groups can't rotate can't mirror can't be inside other groups the answer is sort of funny they came from face-based families so if we go back in and let's actually blow away our bigger groups because we don't need those at the moment so we'll just get rid of all this stuff we're going to go in here we're going to edit this group we're going to make this thing bigger pretend it's like a real apartment or a room or something we'll keep our three chairs in the corner we'll keep our two chairs in the corner and now we'll also add in our new face based awesome upper cabinet all right so we've done this we feel pretty good about ourselves now we start mirroring and things are fine whoops i meant to keep the other one there and then we copy one and then we rotate it 90 degrees and it's fine so what's the issue here right so back when i worked at that group uh there was an architect who worked there her name was monica and she actually helped me realize what the issue was with groups because she was working on a hospital and i was working on an office building at the time and i explained to her how to set up the groups and every time she did it in a patient room it broke and every time i did it on my office building it worked and it became like a riddle and so one of the handouts that i'll send to you uh that you can share with everybody that you'd like is from that australian class at rtc and this is what i called uh well i had a really unflattering name for it but this is basically the sample file where i just went crazy because i was being stubborn and i said we are going to find the reason that it's breaking for monica and it's working for me because she must be doing something wrong news flash she wasn't doing anything wrong if i were to give you a riddle uh i'll show you the answer real quick though hospitals uh i actually did it uh yeah so hospitals when you're doing a foot wall there's only one major piece of millwork on the wall but when you start doing like offices where there's all kinds of cabinets and i had the explanation backwards she was on the office i was on the hospital so i was only placing one object on a wall at the head wall and foot wall and she was placing tons of cabinets and so where that gets interesting is once there are two face-based objects on a wall this is when stuff starts to hit the fan right and this is what people are used to why did one of them flip backwards and why is the group now broken oh well groups must just stink so hey let me copy this over here and let me say this group is going to rotate by 90 degrees oh my god groups can't rotate what is this crap right by the way little funny trivia about old revit groups can rotate as long as you don't try to do all 90 degrees at once so i i can't reproduce this success in this little demo file because it might have been earlier than 14 that they fixed this but back in the day a lot of folks don't know this you could actually get it to work if you just split the walls and had them all hosted to different walls so i don't think this is going to work now because like i said in 2014 it seems to still be broken in a different way but back when i did this in the sample file it back yep so that'll fix it so we split the wall so now the rule is one face-based family on one face and the problem is gone but here's the thing if you didn't know this five years ago you were like groups are the devil that's it right right exactly so here's where consensus not to mention actually you know splitting if that was your solution splitting walls around the entire thing would just be a nightmare too right totally which i want to be fair is not the solution right i mean this this was this was the prescriptive let's try to find the problem the real solution was just getting away from faith-based families so we so again i had this unique opportunity that i never wanted uh when i started parallax in 2016 it was like let's build all my content from scratch again because that was fun and we just decided let's make all the upper cabinets not hosted they still snap we're not getting anything by using face based families let's go back to unhosted and lo and behold now when people are doing entire apartment buildings with groups they've been open for four hours watch them crash when i try to pull them into a zoom meeting it's gonna it's gonna be legit so now you can have entire groups all of the cabinets all of the furniture all of the whatever as long as it's not face based with multiple families associated to any particular surface everything works fine they're mirrorable they're rotatable they're flippable you can edit them they i mean they work like absolute chance and we have a bunch of these that are open and um i do want to just give a shout out to two different groups because a lot of the times when i show images or screenshots and i tell folks like yeah this all works uh perfectly with groups so this is one large project um and then we've got like three more of these open uh and just to be clear if they're slow regenerating for you uh it's in zoom because they perform like absolute dreams here um so one of the interesting things is whenever i show images and talk about the theory of model groups and large projects everybody's like well do you actually have a giant model that we can see this done in yeah and the trouble is the models always belong to my clients so we could try actually it's not too bad in zoom we could try um if you reshare and do the the video um enhanced video it might be okay the only thing is sometimes it does weird things with the mouse pointer so i it it's like i don't even know i don't even know how to do that you'd have to stop sharing your screen for a quick second and then re-share your screen but there's a check box that says enhance for video or something like that and zoom optimize for video yep yep i like it i did so it's gonna it's gonna look way better for us the only thing is sometimes it makes your mouse a little laggy on our end but i can totally soldier i work in revit i'm used to lag yeah oh well you won't see it we'll just see it that's all i just love getting a little dig in here so i mean what i want to point out about these projects though is these are not one-offs okay these are entirely built by our clients and i want to give two shout outs uh both to niles bolton in atlanta who's letting us show these models and the other one that i showed you before is from michael graves up in new jersey and full disclosure i have had zero parts for building any of these models their staff's doing it they've learned about the group workflows they're surviving nobody's dead everybody's okay um totally doable these are mirrored units rotated units so uh they're all huge but they perform like champs these projects are all mostly out the door already um so yeah it's kind of fun to show those things off so so uh i don't think anyone had the question yet but i'm sure it's coming so so all the families are as far as hosting is concerned they're basically just unhosted as in level hosted right so they're hosted so so good so good question right actual object hosting doesn't have the same limitations so obviously all the doors are wall hosted and there's plenty of doors in the units and so if things are door if things are wall hosted floor hosted roof hosted ceiling hosted everything is great in the groups as long as the host is also in the group and that's one of the other areas that a lot of people kind of try to break the rules and try to bend the rules with groups is they're like well i can put these can lights in the group even though the ceiling is monolithic for the whole building floor and i should be punched in the face so uh yeah this one is this one is old school by the way this is in revit 18. nice um so i've been working in 18 all week and i can't stand it yeah now i do i i do uh this is not the one that i was thinking of i thought it was a different one but uh yeah so this one's back in 18. um we've got another one some of these are in different versions so where's the other one that i wanted to show you yeah so this one this one is a lot less exciting but the reason we have this one open is just to show that like it's not a one-off parlor trick so if we were to grab a unit we want to copy it out into space somewhere we're going to get a warning about a room because there are rooms in the units and obviously now it's not bound but even though it's not bound it still doesn't care we can take this thing we can rotate it by the 90 degrees it's not going to freak out on us we can mirror it life is pretty good as we know it um so yeah i mean all that to say junior has actually had a really good question i think we can probably talk about right now which is um he's saying links allow him to work on a series of apartments and spread the work to one's teammates so i guess uh mike i'll sort of interpret his as a question that i think everyone else could relate to which is when it comes to work sharing multiple people working in a project and then also dealing with groups you know what tips tips are in place there because obviously you can work share but um you know modifying a group for example with multiple people trying to modify the same group i mean i'm assuming that that can become an issue absolutely so and i'm gonna compound that with a couple of other questions because uh you know junior's question is awesome and also alex has a question about what if an an entire building has to shift on site right so even though it's boring let's briefly pull this thing back up here right because what we were talking about is you know there are different situations and this is where absolutely like if you want to get into what we call the combo happy meal now you're getting into the smallest unit the apartments definitely as groups when there's multiple buildings on the site absolutely make the buildings links so and that's where i get into like it's not and actually when we were joking about this webinar on twitter nancy uh actually uh apartheid design on twitter actually brought up that you know it doesn't have to be one or the other it's when you use both so if you've got multiple buildings on a site definitely i have what i call the but i dyno for groups which is 20 minutes if a group is big enough that you have to be in it more than 20 minutes it's too big so a floor plate no an apartment definitely the largest groups i have are movie theaters for like you know when you're doing like a you know when i was when i was uh at back they did a lot of movie theater uh design so you can have an entire theater room with the voms the floors the seats the screens the speakers everything and you can have detail groups attached to all of it so that the whole thing's fully annotated uh bigger than that room i wouldn't make it a group and so when it comes down to like floor plates you know this is where the discussion gets a little nuanced and i tell folks that we want to be careful from not trying to over automate too many things right so here we've got a large building and there are floor plates but you'll notice that nothing is ever bigger group wise than the individual apartment on a few projects we'll group just the corridors and the doors and the demise walls because then we have those grouped but yeah you're right because of work sharing you want to be able to get in and out of a group in 20 minutes basically and the reason the reason for that is very specific it won't let you in the group if somebody else is in it but it hasn't checked for permissions on all the other instances of the group until you hit finish so if you've been hanging out in a group for like two hours and then you try to finish the group and then it realizes it needs you know aaron to sync with central so that you can reload latest and get a wall you're done you've lost your group so i always tell everybody like 20 minutes um and then and then it's got to be broken up and the other thing i tell folks is you know we i think a lot of people in aec we like to investigate process and so we're obsessed with this idea that i shouldn't have to do anything twice right um we have a great app and i love this app it's called link details it has to do with drafting views but people are always asking us like live plan details that exist in two buildings on my garden site i shouldn't have to draw that plan detail twice what overly convoluted process can we make up so i don't have to draw the plan detail twice and i'm like it's 15 minutes i actually think you should just draw it again but i bring it up yeah yeah it's true it's we we do that with with every i mean i we have this debate all the time with detail you know live live sections versus drafted sections and and i mean we had we had a project where it was it was mirrored buildings and and you know the design team was doing everything in their power to not model both buildings right right you know and then you find out that the basement's a little different on one and the other you know is is it really always the same you know that's that's the other yeah i mean and some of it you get into like i mean so the floor plate one is what comes up a lot so on a building like this we've got all the units and they're all grouped and by the way i do like to point out that they do even have groups in groups in some of these files and it's freaking glorious the bathrooms are grouped and the kitchens are grouped inside the unit groups and everybody's like it's all gonna die and am i gonna be fine um but so then the question becomes well if the floor plates are all the same shouldn't we then take all the units that are in the floor plate and then group them all into the floor plate and like in theory yes but that that dreaded fixed groups thing that we can't stand does rear its ugly head in unforeseen circumstances and we know that editing a group in a group does work as long as the outside group doesn't feel challenged at all so if i if i jump in here and edit a bathroom and uh let's see is this the file that has one of them grouped yep here's an example so wrong group so this one actually has groups in groups in groups which is really cool um this is not my model though so i'm still learning my way around it so what i was going to do is i see that like there's a sink that doesn't have joint geometry done so if i were to like go find yeah this one revit inception it is it is and because i've had a few drinks now i can't get in the group it's okay um so if i were to do it though right so if i have to go into a subgroup and do join geometry or cut geometry that's not challenging the parent group because nothing in the parent group needs to re-interact but if you've got an entire floor plate chances are there's something in there that when you hit finish on the subgroup it's going to want to edit it and and that's a problem so to me you know when folks tell me well the entire advantage of grouping a whole floor plate is then if i need to swap two apartment units i just go to one and i change them and i'm like all right like i'm gonna i'm gonna be devil's advocate here and say the building is 30 stories tall if i have to open 30 plans and just flip two units am i am i really is this really the hill we want to die on right you know at that point i'm like or i just go do it and you know so pervy had a question that that's caused a couple uh chats and i think it's probably a good one which is uh when you when you're meeting uh walls and stuff outside of the group any tips and tricks for that so let's hack yeah corn shell whatever like what what i'm in your experience what are the tips and tricks for interacting with elements outside of the group typically walls but i think there's probably other things we can think of but definitely walls for sure pervy's bringing the real questions uh yeah don't let it don't let them join um now here's the thing by the way this is something like if it's me personally i disallow join at the corners of all of my groups and i don't let them interact now i always keep demise walls and corridors facing walls in not the group so you'll see here like this this group has no demising information in it not even the demise walls the group basically is completely internal to everything um so you'll even notice here this particular architecture group does not do what what i do which is oh look now i have to sync with central awesome um so me personally i do actually right click on the blue dot and disallow join for all of my walls it creates an ugly line for me that's not a big deal because chances are my demise balls are rated anyway and you see how in our template rated walls show up right so i'm going to get a visual division there anyway um pervy the the question that i the reason i love the question is where i think it becomes a real issue is with curtain walls because they have a sneaking a sneaking tendency especially because they embed in other stuff to want to move their end points anyway so i always always always with my curtain walls set these to disallow join i'll still let them automatically embed but if they're set to disallow join then they don't completely go bonkers when they're touching the edges of groups because if there's like an interior storefront right here and it touches the exterior of the building this will break your group almost every time if it's set to join because it will try to jump midway through the wall and then your hose so yeah just set them all to disallow join um to be fair curtain walls at corners in general is always a pain in the ass so it doesn't change totally using groups um uh who who as alex asked you're grouping the rooms and so uh or asking if you're grouping the rooms and so i think that's a pretty good question for me it's a great question so what we do with room objects does vary client by client and i'll tell you that so a lot of our clients handle this differently so in this one that you're looking at here this particular client even sets all the internal walls to not room bounding because they want a single room for the apartment i personally don't advocate that i like to have uh i like to have a room in every room in the apartment and i think this building is like that i'm gonna make it like i think one of the one of them definitely had it i saw when you were editing let's try this one i have to activate a view i guess because i'm on a sheet where did i go there we go okay so this is mo this is more how i would do it so to alex's question yes i will put the rooms in the group uh we also use what's called the unit cloud which means there is an instance of all of the units hanging out in cringy cringe hyperspace and that's actually in our template where all the unit documentation happens so we don't actually create the unit plans in context in the building because in multi-family and healthcare design a lot of times the apartments in the patient rooms are getting designed before the building's done right so this is actually where all of that's happening and then we just have a method to remove them from the schedule so over here it is important to alex's point you have to have something that is bounding the rooms or the groups will freak out but hey if you don't have the same room boundaries around all the rooms they're not the same group i go through the solid point i go through this a lot with hospitality designers is they don't want you know they have you know room queen one but they have five different sizes for queen ones so to me those are five different room types so this is interesting there's this room cloud so is this how are you managing uh the visibility of those uh are you are you using phasing are you using you know what are you doing to keep them out i know you said you're not scheduling them but visibility wise i'm assuming it can be an issue for some folks so i'm curious right so some people have the same question of how are you managing yeah yeah totally and i actually should have had our template open so uh i do have our template open it's a lot it's a lot more boring to look at um but so basically what we're doing is uh it's entirely away from the building so we have we have 10 scope boxes set up for a building which exists over here and then the entire unit cloud is off literally far far away so and they also do have and this is annoying it can't be a yes or no parameter it has to be a text parameter that is set to vary by group instance um text parameters are the only ones that can vary by group instance that we can do this with where then you can basically select everything in the unit cloud and say yes to imunicloud which then removes it from any schedules and any views that you don't want to see it in but you can't do it with yes or no's i don't know why it's and the views are using a filter to do that uh yeah yeah you could use a filter to remove them yeah so we don't like to do it by phase and we don't want to do it with design options because they are the same group that is everywhere else in the project so if it's a face then they have to jump between phases and then it just gets annoying yeah and that's what i was thinking too and a lot of people who may be familiar with with uh you know even if they saw your um your template um session you know how we use the future or prehistoric phases to control those things you may immediately go there but when you're thinking the group instance you know then then you don't necessarily want the group objects to be in the future phase because then you're messing with the current phase and that's i was actually curious myself how are you managing that which is which is good it's cool yeah now i mean just just to follow up on alex's point there is one really interesting thing i want to touch on and that is one of the reason i'm just going to go into blank space here so i can draw one of the reason people love links is they say well i want to have a unit and then i have a building over here that's a file and i have a building over here and i link in the unit and i link in the unit and life is awesome and one of the downsides people say to working in groups is well i can have a file and i can do load as group but then the problem is what happens when i need to update the group and the group is now in two different files right so a lot of folks forget that you can save groups out and you can reload a group by doing insert lotus group and you can reload the group over the top of the group that is in the file so i'm not saying this is a great idea but like let's say you updated it in this file right here you can save this group out and then open this file and do load as group and pull this back in and it will update the group however and alex thank you for this question because this is where things get dicey we've never gotten an explanation from the revit team on why this is this is the one case where if the rooms are in your group it's gonna punch you in the face because everything's gonna work like a champ except your room numbers just got wasted i have no idea why like it doesn't waste your door numbers it doesn't waste anything else but your your room numbers just got hosed if you did that but again this is where i go back to like how serious of a change did you make to the group if you moved a wall just go move it again if you redesign the unit i think room number is at least your problems right yep yep no that's interesting and i think uh i mean my assumption is it has it goes back to the room objects themselves and we all know that they have some caveats in general to how they're placed and managed within the rev environment so i can see why that that would if the the rooms yeah it doesn't work does it does it it it it renumbers based on the last knit room so so kind of places new rooms is that what it's doing or uh i believe so yeah it's like it's it's blowing out the rooms and putting in new rooms which means the numbers are just going to be continuing on as if you were placing rooms or something but so full transparency one of these models that we had open like i said this came from michael graves up in new jersey uh they're one of our clients and they did this building and rob's actually in the chat hanging out but this was an interesting example because this building actually had two different towers that were happening at different times and they're similar but not the same so they were two distinct files but the units were moving between the two files and so i i believe and i'm going to paraphrase because i wasn't on the team but i believe the approach they took was like they did one big move to like update stuff but then like the minutia changes they just kept doing in both files because because it was kind of bearable and i'm in the coordination view which is intentionally ugly so i don't know why i came to this view a little bit we'll go to a better looking view but yeah so in that case uh you know it actually worked pretty well um and actually allison my my wife architect uh my architect wife was on this project and she didn't kill me so it must not be that bad i can only say that but she's not watching right now just kidding awesome i'm trying to read so there's a ton of activity on the chat which is great it's clearly an interesting topic for everyone so i'm trying to make sure we don't miss anything anything major here which is great yeah i haven't i haven't gotten to watch the one the one thing i think someone's kind of asked but maybe if they didn't i have a feeling there would be some people that are curious as to um annotating and treating tags annotations in general what tips do you have if you take the group route we talked a lot about the links and the whole round round-robin issue of where you figure that out as far as groups are you know and sort of tips for annotation is it is it as simple as just annotate or or i'm sure you've got some some tips and tricks for that yeah i mean so uh i'm gonna i'm gonna pull something in and this is uh this is just in a blank file and this actually i won't do this in one of the uh in one of the sexy files that i got from our awesome clients but so the nice thing about being in groups right is you can actually just annotate natively you don't need to you don't need to do anything crazy but one of the one of the most powerful things about groups that a lot of people don't remember or they forget and this has existed at least for as long as i've been using revit which was 8.1 in 2006 is that model groups can have attached detail groups and the power of that is not going to show itself in your project the power of attached detail groups is all of you who are watching whether you're in design or architecture or engineering your job your career does not exist to detail freaking bathrooms like that is not what you should be doing you should be designing awesome spaces handling coordination better and not having to waste time on dimensioning things and tagging things so what i love about projects like you just looked at from nba and from michael graves is they can now take units and harvest them with all the annotations and a harvested group what it does is it creates an actual rvt of just the model group and then every different set of annotations that exist in every different view become a different view in that rvt file then what i just did a minute ago when i was off screen is i did load as group just on the insert ribbon i load it in a bathroom and i show this demo to to new potential clients and we show it under the guise of this is why we want to try to get to things like standardized partition types and standardized which was actually in your book that you wrote about how to name things and why to organize things what a lot of people don't realize is what this means is you can save out something like a restroom and then this was done as a model group so it came in as a model group and then you can actually have call outs for your enlarged plan of course there we go enlarge plan once you have kids you start making sound effects by the way with everything that you do i'm sure you can relate now yeah the demo button is now like and then when we loaded this thing as group we got this button called attach detail groups and this thing can have everything from tags dimensions text uh keynotes uh detail lines detail components anything you want to have and and you know the whole reason i like to show this to people is if you just hit the low hanging fruit of standardize the way you want to name and classify things and then start to work within the bounds of model groups you can start to then harvest out of your existing projects things that you know you're going to either use in the future or use a similar version of in the future so the bathroom might not be shaped like this but if i place the bathroom and place the detail group and then modify the bathroom i don't have to re-tag everything we can just kind of spend more time on coordination as you and i were talking about before the call which nobody wants to do oh that was awesome so those are uh i mean how the process you just showed i mean how would you explain um because i'm sure people are watching that and it's probably a great place to end because that's an awesome moment of of yeah i think for some folks but maybe maybe uh maybe without digging deep into how to do that what would you call that if people want to try that or actually do that maybe right and here's the thing i don't wanna i don't want anybody to think it's a parlor trick that took an hour to set up so we're going to do it and i was kind of teeing you up because it it's one of those again it's one of those things where it's like boom you know awesome so but uh it's not that difficult so we'll so we'll show it in 30 seconds so again you know in this particular project the units exist in what's called the unit cloud but so we know that if we go in this view this is one of the instances of the model group the only thing that has to be done for the same thing to happen with this unit is to say i want to add annotations to this unit now in this particular case the one cleanup that you would have to do is none of these dimensions can be touching things that are outside the group so for right now just because we're in a hurry i won't do the dimensions but i'll do door tags i'll do uh room tags uh i thought there was text notes but they're room tags so we'll just do those two things right so if i grab these oh i did it the wrong way so if i go in the model group and i say edit you'll notice there's the paperclip button and that is attach a detail group and i'm just going gonna call this group my awesome group because i'm super handy with my naming if my revit is slow i have like literally 15 models open at the moment where's that revit slow get out of here there it is okay so i'm going to give it a detail group name and we're going to call this room tags now you would not make a different one for room tags and door tags i'm just doing this as a sample so now we've made one called room tags and i'm going to say add it add it and add it and there's a few more look at that they've got a lot of rooms in here there we go and now we're done and now if i wanted to do another one i could do another one for the door tags and that's it now you just go down on the project browser right click on the group and hit save and it saves it out with those annotations and what's really cool about it is you saw me over here i placed the one that was called enlarged plan but you can save out multiple of them like we were just talking about so there's another one called finish plan if i place that one a bunch of finish tags show up on the floors and that was just another another whole group and so what you would do is go to your finish plan and place the finish tag group go to your elevations and place the elevation group and you can have like i said fully detailed apartments fully detailed movie theaters and the goal is then when you start your next job even if it's going to be a bespoke custom apartment you get to start with a baseline that's fully annotated just like we did in autocad sick that that's that's epic right there that's i know that's one of those things that i even forget about the attach thing but but when you showed it i was like oh yeah i forgot that's awesome it's one of those things that it's just like we don't do it very much so you forget it's there it makes so much sense so so that's i think that's a great place to stop i think anyone watching has never seen attached details i think you might just blow their mind awesome it's a good time i always feel bad because like whenever i show it to new people they're like did that show up in a recent version of revit and i'm like it's been around longer than i have sorry no that's incredible awesome man this this has been great we could probably go on for another hour if we wanted to but uh i'm sure i'm sure we'll we'll have you back on and who knows what we'll be talking about next um any final words before we wrap this thing up groups groups is the winner oh for for everybody who is a strong proposal depends put in parentheses but groups is the winner let's let's let's just wrap it up like that groups groups for the little ones and for anybody on the other side of the fence i wholly respect your right to be wrong fantastic aaron's thank you so much just kidding uh how can people find you in context uh you can find me on youtube for you for using links exactly twice roads fool on twitter or any social media aaron mallor at parallax team dot com hr parallax team if you have a problem with something i said cliff's notes those emails come to me no i don't care it all goes back to you right right awesome and i'll put all the links to get in contact with aaron thank you for coming on again man i knew this was going to be an awesome topic and definitely i look forward to seeing the continued uh conversation that i'm sure will happen on various social medias after this absolutely and i'll send both of those handouts in case you want to forward them to anybody who is attending tons of fun info in there awesome and guys thank you so much on the chat it was a really active chat great questions i appreciate it thanks again for enscape for sponsoring the tip of the week uh james i i gotta find your email but if you're here and you watch this shoot me an email let me know that i read your tip and i'll send you a uh a t-shirt aaron again thanks thanks for coming on i'm sure i'm sure we'll be seeing you again and everyone else have an awesome weekend and i'll see you guys soon bye everyone thanks for coming [Music] you

Channel: TheRevitKid

Views: 7,735

Rating: 4.9597316 out of 5

Keywords: revit, revit design, architecture, architecture design, autodesk revit, revit tutorial, architect, revit tip, revit tutorials, revit architecture, BIM, building information modeling, autodesk revit tutorials, architecture tutorials, revit groups, revit links, revit groups vs links, revit group tutorials, when to use revit links over groups, when to use revit groups instead of links

Id: yKW1tdyZ8lk

Length: 71min 22sec (4282 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 07 2021