Rethinking Heritage

[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] okay and we only last [Music] summer demna the creative director of Balenciaga since 2015 is one of the very few designers who creates a total and distinct Universe one that draws on the heritage of the house but is also rooted in the weirdness of the present and all great fashion is based on reality his references have ranged widely from the banale uniforms of power to the ability of technology to manipulate humans to our preoccupation with celebrity he has collaborated with among others the creators of The Simpsons mercedesbenz and Crocs in the process Balenciaga has gone from being a niche label with sales of 350 million to a$2 billion mainstream brand demna has uplifted the industry and not merely because he and his team create new and different products or have a more contemporary understanding of luxury rather it's because he connects with a broad audience that feels and thinks the same way about things two years ago Balenciaga restarted o Couture after a gap of more than 50 years the house was founded in 1937 by chrisal Balenciaga and when he retired and closed the business in 1968 Couture ended with it DNA's first collection had the effect of clarifying his links to Balenciaga in his Cuts volumes and Inspirations it also liberated him as we're about to see demna who was born demick of asalia 42 years ago in Georgia spent the early part of his career in the studios at Marella and Louis vuon but he was frustrated by the system and with some friends started vetal were it not for vetal he might never have come to the attention of carrying the group that owns Balenciaga de and I met in The house's original headquarters at 10 Avenue George sank just a few hours after he had presented his third Couture collection and you might like to know that for the show demna had sound Engineers removed the orchestras from Maria Call's greatest performance so you just hear the magic of her voice [Music] [Music] for at Balenciaga headquarters on one wall there is a wall of head shot of models that you are considering for your next show and on the other wall opposite your desk all by itself is a large portrait of Christal Balenciaga he is literally staring out at you aside from the fact that his name is above the door what does that photo tell you that photo is very important for me because I work for the house uh that carries his name still even though this house has transformed itself and is um has become a global brandh it still carries the name of of of him and I put it put it on that wall actually at the very beginning when I came to Baga because I felt like I needed his visual presence in order to always be reminded um that I'm working for his legacy that I'm working like I'm trying to fit those really big shoes you know and and they were we have a few pictures portraits of him and the choice of that one was quite I mean specific because I felt like it was one of the portraits of Christo barago where he looks like he's smiling because I uh I wanted something maybe some type of almost to see some typ type of approval in that expression that I would see every single day right yeah so I I chose it kind of consciously I think for that reason yeah and it's true that now it's STS at at Board of my potential cost yeah it's kind of it's like a filter I don't know it's just something that helps me maybe to keep my confidence at this house you know it's interesting and because he was born almost a century before you in the years for a long time after his death which was in 1972 the house was owned by various companies that didn't seem to care or know very much about its Heritage German pharmaceutical company was one then Nicola jier brought some attention in the early 2000s but still compared to to Dior and Chanel just to name two houses Balenciaga had a tiny profile it didn't have products familiar to millions of people but I wondered did you see the potential in the beginning in those first years did you see that potential I don't know if I saw it clearly I think I I kind of felt um that despite of the fact that uh the history of this house was interrupted for a significant period of time when it was since he closed it uh and obviously when it was reopened it was you know VIs again and it was quite important and impactful in the fashion world but still it was missing about 50 years of fashion history compared to the other U you know Parisian uh historical houses but knowing where it came from and I kind of like having this feeling about how great the greatness of Christo balber I think that was what attracted me from start from the beginning on here I had the feeling but I to I have to be I don't remember myself being like Oh okay I'm I I can do things here that you know people somewhere in the other part of the world completely disconnected from Paris fashion week would know or would react to or that not that's something that I think happened in the process but in my process more than right you know there was not really as strategic or intentional well I wish I was that confident actually that would help a lot I mean I think that's to me was one of the fascinating things especially when hindsight when I think about it it took you a little bit of time you came from the years at Marella and then Vall you start vet mall so you come with experience and then those first couple of years at Balenciaga you and Cedric sh who are also who came a year after you um you know that you had to probably make some changes structurally and get you know but it took a few years before things started to become really clear I remember like one of the things I was going to ask you actually I wanted to ask about Cedric and having that Partnership of a CEO because it's always been one of the things that has kind of mattered in fashion you think of B and S laon Tom V and Dominico Dole those kind of where you need two people and I wondered because I remember talking to you this is I'm diverting a little bit but I remember talking to you in the summer of 2020 was June of 2020 we were kind of coming out of lockdown and you express some frustration about what the merchandisers were doing you were pretty honest about it and I think like you were doing your thing or the creative team but then you and Cedric solved that problem by bringing the merchandisers into the design team and I was going to ask you about that like why did that matter and what was the effect of that and were there other changes that you and Cedric in those first few years had to make structurally to make things to create the place where you could get to where Balenciaga got to that was a Lany process and also uh because we never worked together before we first needed this time to also to get to know each other that's why it felt like it took some time because it did take some time for us to to understand also each other's uh maybe strengths and weaknesses as well and to kind of try to be complimentary on that um I think when I talk to you about the the merchandising and like you know anybody who works uh in a in a in a house will tell you like any creative will tell you the same thing uh because very often with the creative success and the vision comes commercial success and it kind of fits the domino effect it just you just get merchandising being more involved and tell you while this sells and this the other brand selling this so maybe we should also do that a little cork platform because you know and it might go against your your aesthetic or your vision or you know from creative point of view so it often and I I've experienced it earlier I actually experienc it at more I experienced it in a very different way because I didn't really have to deal with that in my previous jobs uh but I've always experience that directly or indirectly sometimes they would just come to me and say okay we need to do a leggings and this and this and this and every needs to thing needs to have big shoulders but I realize that often it comes from this uh from the statistics and from the not necessarily always the Strategic thing you say okay this is something we definitely need on the merchandisers are you know just also people who who base their research on something they read or check with other you know Brands what they do but it somehow didn't fit necessarily with my way of doing things I mean I'm I have a point of view I doubt about it often and I think it's a good thing and know and ask people what they think and their opinion Etc But ultimately I also kind of make a conclusion about it and think okay this makes sense to me this is what I would buy this is what I would want to to have or have a desire because that's what I'm trying to do with product and often what merchandisers would ask me would not really go with that you know it would feel like un you know unauthentic for me to to even put that in the collection I almost felt like I was betraying my own creative personality somehow doing that so we had a lot of discussions of of course and there were also good things that were suggested that I wouldn't even have thought about because you know brand grows and I cannot really think about every product that somebody might want from you right so that is helpful this exchange is absolutely necessary I felt what's really kind of important for me that it goes through the Creative Vision and that's why we made this decision to kind of have the merchandizing team report to not report I mean it's all about it doesn't me matter to who they report but to work together with the studio and the well with me directly also they still it's still like that like when I start working on the collection people who are responsible for different product categories they come and they're like okay we saw you like this shoe what do you think if we do this and that and that kind of iteration of it just ends up being better communication of like and they see it right there there's not a break and there's there's smart people who have their understanding of my vision but also understand the market better than I do so they're like how can we diversify what you do in the way that would cover more cuz if you want to grow as a brand you have to make more product somehow and you have to talk to more customer I mean that's that's kind of their job which I you know I just do what I do I don't think about all of this it's a collaboration and it's not always easy I mean I won't tell you that it's like oh from the first day on it was clear because I think it's very unusual to do that but it does pay off because that's what people come for in valenciaga at the end of the day when a product doesn't resemble me a customer doesn't believe it he doesn't want to have it before you started thatal and you were at Von and you've now had some experience you were at Marella for quite a while you understand the luxury business you're sort of looking at what the luxury business was can be the High fashion business whatever you want to call it I've always had the impression that you express some of your ideas in vetal about what you thought brands should be and who they should represent you started showing us that with your casting at at vetal and which you have done even more so at Balenciaga but your references were always going to be different because the world you come from a different place and you know I've said this before I'm like you know most of the designers who work in big houses over the last 25 30 years have come from Western Europe or they've been Japanese when I think of the Japanese wave of the seven of the 80s and 90s they've been Belgian of that that Great Wave but you came from a whole you know set of circumstances that were different but I also just wonder too it just like your own feelings about the potential for what a high fashioned brand could be in the second decade of the New Millennium and that maybe other brands just weren't thinking like that I think when we see Balenciaga today I sense the ideas of what somebody really wanted it takes a while to get there but I sense that and I just didn't know that when you were you know we're talking roughly between 2013 2015 before you get hired you've got the project of of vetal but whether there were also other things brewing in the back of your mind that you would wondering or maybe you weren't ready to articulate them Ma or maybe you weren't sure but it I just wondered about that I still have those things Brewing I have to say it's like uh thanks God they they and some of them are actually still Brewing from back then that I still haven't realized I think that it depends in which context you know you brew them MH I mean it's interesting you were the first person to ever brought up this thought about like people mostly that we know in the fashion industry they come from the Western culture and I've I've never thought about that actually after our conversation I had to think about it and try try to analyze what did it do to me that I might see differently I think it's also maybe about personal experiences you know like what clothing means to me how I try to like hide myself through it or re you know or show myself through it or express myself and how much I suffered through it because of it actually because of trying to be different and myself and then get I think those experiences on top of I mean other cultural aspects definitely you know made me see fashion industry from a different point of view somehow I always think a bit of like I'm a bit of a communist at heart I don't know somehow in my approach to it you know like I often um not criticize but question a lot of like I would say capit the kind of fundamental things about capitalism that I find difficult to live with and keep and be how you say be true to my values as well at the same time you know in terms of what we do and how much we sell and how much we make and how much you know all of that this is it's a very conflicting uh thing for me like I still don't know how to deal with it sometimes I get really angry about it and sometimes I just forget about it and go with the flow because there's things that I cannot change and you know sayi I'm there I'm supposed to make a code you know I'm not supposed to like but I love the fact that you think about that I cuz I share your view I always say that fashion makes me a communist and farming makes me want to be a capitalist that's good you know and I felt that be long before I started farming I also thought about there's something about the whole fashion thing that makes me angry I love creativity I put that aside I've been I've been fortunate to be around a lot of creative designers but I love the fact that you you you come from experience that makes you think of things the values that are venerated more lately today than in the past that you have reason to question that because you've come from a different experience and that somehow Works into the valenciaga story that you've been telling really I would say in a very hardcore way in the last 3 to five years so I think it's also like uh there is this part of me that you know Kul for example is a good good good example that's the part in which I completely forget about all those things I just want to focus on body and material and silhouette and you know making there is no questioning of any of that really you know involved but the moment I get into ready to wear mode that's where it starts I'm like okay let's you know we need to do stuff like we need to be active we need I I once I think I called myself a fashion activist in some way like I'm not going on the street like with the you know I don't say things but I think through work as well we can do it I think it's a little bit makes maybe fashion a bit more relevant to me because I kind of have a love and hate relation with this concept of fashion in general I love it but at the same time there's a lot of things that I hate but it's like a bit like you know you can have this kind of thing with your family members it's also it's it doesn't mean but I uh it does push some buttons with me where and and and it filters through the work then yes but I sometimes wonder like I love making a Couture dress custom made on someone who you know this is this such an amazing way of compliment ing a person by doing this work for them which but at the same time I really get angry where I hear some people who know my work who follow it for years who love what I do but cannot even buy it yeah you know and that's the com then the Communist which is you know I'm like I want them to be able to wear what I do at least like two thing you know that's and that's a tight rope to walk especially when you come into the luxury sector and you know like you need to stay within it and that's that's where I have to kind of you know keep my communist the fall 2018 show marked a turning point for demna he sent out futuristic molded suits and coats that use 3D printing technology and giant parkas that played on balenciaga's historical volumes I think it was linked to my personal life a lot as well because I've I've kind of um how you say if I can call it like detoxed mhm my life at that moment and like I've changed my relationships my surrounding I think the the lifestyle and all of that it was shortly after I fell in love as well I mean there were a lot of things happening in my personal life that uh that made me evolve and I think obvious it was obvious that it would also happen in the work and it's absolutely you you noticed it correctly that it was the turning point it was the first collection of the new me I would say yeah and that's where there was a lot of this desire to experiment and to like try things out I mean layering has been something I've done a lot before as well but I haven't gone to that it's a bit like the tromo story in this current C collection I've done it before everybody has done it before but I've never done it this way and in this so that was a bit the season in 2018 where I've I've defied myself a bit I was like okay what's the next step in the fall of 2019 demna transformed a sound state AG into a parliamentary chamber as the backdrop for all forms of power dressing from the anonymous bureaucrats we see on television to socialites in their bulletproof ball gowns the show was a bit like a political meme funny but in its aim at reality also disturbing when we did the parliament show it was very linear somehow yeah it started with this it almost looked like someone who would guide you through the Parliament and let you have your seat you know what I mean there was that I don't know how they call them there's probably a name for those and there was a bit of a humor to it in some way also I think maybe it was probably it was one show where I felt like we had the most humor because we also played with makeup we did this prosthetic extensions to kind of emphasize the whole craze that was going on already with all the filters and like plastic like literally you know 20-year-old going to a plastic surgeon and showing their picture with a filter and saying I want that so there was a lot of this not critique but there was a lot of this kind of discussion going on and also people started to say things were Sinister too there was a s Sinister is I don't know if that's I didn't necessarily see that but I could see how I think the humor balanced some of that but I do think perhaps because you were dealing with the notion of power and in this big blue government chamber well that is Sinister but has nothing to do with my work it's a Sinister in its sexual Essence people prefer some this is something that makes me really angry often that the fashion audience always wants fashion to tell this kind of fairy tale to be like oh Lael a bit like the Homer Simpson singing on the boat no it's not true Lael it's kind of pretty awful and and we can also laugh I mean it's also good to not be too dramatic about it but we cannot ignore it I think that's my that's what makes me really angry that I mean that kind of I actually saw one at 's face on the camera during that show when first prosthetic makeup came and she literally like cringed like I was like w that's the reaction it's you know what I mean it was not because it was disgusting but it was because it was so uh true actually there are people who look like that yeah yeah yeah no you you're confronting things that out there and whenever you confront things you know people find it uncomfortable and I think that's that's a bit of a something I love but something that also can can be a bit you know tricky right in how people perceive your work in general because my work is not only like that by any measure 2021 was a remarkable year for the brand demna staged a show in which the models appeared to walk on water he masterminded a Balenciaga gaming app he showed his first Couture collection and he achieved the near impossible he made a bunch of sophisticated people laugh at themselves by having them walk down a red carpet only to have their Antics displayed on a giant screen inside the theater it was a first he topped it all off with a Balenciaga film starring Homer and Marge Simpson I used to plan out um how to show the collection because I know that I make four collections a year so I kind of play and I know that I have two collections which are during fashion week and then the two others that are either digital or whatever format obviously pandemic oblig does to think differently I think it played a big role so I used to kind of plan that out in advance to because for example something like The Simpsons project uh it would be impossible for me to have an idea now to do that for you know even for fall like it takes much longer you need to get in touch convince them you know work with them make style the looks for March and all of that it's like it's just a very different process and we also it just for after World the the video game that we made it was the most comp we worked on it for I think almost or about 10 months we only have like 6 months to make a collection considering that usually you start thinking about the show type that you're going to do a couple of months into it it would have been impossible but afterward was perfect during pandemic because nothing was moving we were all sitting and listening to podcasts and I don't know it made it possible because everything was so slow actually back then but it was always very instinctive you know like I I planed we plan to do a computer game before we knew there would be pandemic it was kind of like we should do it we should do one day fashion show that is a game but we never came to it because unless we were forced by a situation and the situation came where we had no other choice really the red show the red carpet actually it didn't start as that it was the idea to do The Simpsons because we still were kind of in the pandemic wasn't sure if we can do a live event so okay let's what's next after the video game it was just like brainstorming a lot like me at home call or text with you know my teams or call with Cedric and be like okay I have this idea maybe so that's the group you would have the discussion with the creative team and then Cedric as well or I usually kind of brainstorm myself a lot and then I exchange with you know people in my creative team like Martina and other people who worked on that or who work on that now uh we ly a lot we do at home during breakfast and lunch and dinner kind of what would be like what would be fun like what would we want someone to do it was a bit more from a very personal like right like what would you like I was like because we both like Simpsons you know it's like something very personal I was like wow the most amazing who is going to convince you know the Simpsons team to do it for us like let's just try I call Cedric he get you know gets excited gets in touch they say yes so it keeps starts cuz I believe like you need to try those things even like sometimes crazy ideas might you know end up yeah then we realize that we actually kind of need to have the collection ready for it to be styled and so they can draw them right but timing wise didn't work because then it's quite a long time to draw it the cartoon so we would need to have the collection ready too early so we're like okay let's forget about them being dressed in the most current collection we just you know style it from what we did so far and then the current collection will be just basically all the guests will be wearing it that's how it start like at the premiere right and that's how so it happened in a way not like I was like okay I want to not like a big strategy this is like CU I think that's probably why the red carpet moment works so well because it was for GIC I remember one of the pr from carlto was saying come come Kathy come walk down you know and I had no idea I was like a lamb to slaughter just innocent you know walking down but it was very instinctive and I think the best things are always instinctive you know it was it came to and were like oh that's actually what is the show now is it the Simpsons that we worked on or is it the red carpet so we realized the actual red carpet was then they were like okay shall we get like fake Paparazzi and to make it you know it was this whole but it became really fun and I think also because it was the first thing we did after the co thing we want everybody wanted just a bit of fun it was you know so the ti guys I don't know how you say that in English I guess it's this yeah it's that it was in that you know and I feel like with a lot of things it just happens to be that the the parliament was the same I think the walk- on water show is one I cannot explain really because it was very dark and somber and Sinister umh I think intentionally because to me it was linked to my person personal life to my upbringing the role of religion the constraints that came with it the culture I come from the you know the darkness the black color the long clerical clothing and all of that but it turned out because two days after there was lockdown people of like often still even in my teams they refer to like oh the apocalyptic show like why do you even say that like we never refer to it like for us it was called The Nuns demna says that caring has always given him C blos and when he first proposed Couture back in 2019 he didn't have to convince anyone that it was the right thing to do for demna the main thing was to put Couture in a modern context he showed jeans a t-shirt a trench coat of course all cut to Perfection but in using Couture to refine some of his own ideas his silhouette he also made the Heritage come alive it's a master class in how to take a legendary house forward the Couture was really my desire to connect to his legacy more it was a bit complicated for me to build my vision always thinking about somehow this theoretical or I don't know kind of psychological approval you know from that Legacy side so I often kind of didn't go where I wanted to go because it would it would create a certain frame and I realized I need the cure to act because I love that part you know it's not really something that I've ever expressed before but it's something that I naturally enjoy the most actually more than doing show scenography or I mean I can make baggy jeans as many as necessary you know what it's like it's kind of like different but in Couture it's this how you say I don't know this luxury of having time and no pressure yeah because maybe no pressure is an important thing in ready to wear whatever brand size it is you always have a pressure because in a way you think well I need to do something that someone else wants to buy like you always kind well then the capitalist the Communist is back it's like in Couture you don't have that constraint maybe that's why I kept I said I think last year or maybe when we started that it's just so liberating it's the freedom it's really that freedom and the freedom comes from the absence of very stressful commercial like there is nothing to Market and that's where the creativity thrives and I think for me I did it actually kind of a bit for myself because I felt like I needed this balance and automatically it connected me like with literally like direct shortcut to crystal ball and that's where I was like okay I love those shapes you know but how can I make those shapes cocoon or how can I use it and it became it was very natural in that first collection I had a lot of them here in this last show today really echoed and some sometimes very subtle way um Chris bal's work which I didn't want it to be too coconi but that's also the magic of what you've done it's never this is I mean I always think that your road map if somebody at the Harvard Business School or someone you know here in Europe was studying how you interpret how you recreate or propose a Heritage brand it's not a literal interpretation of the things that he's done but you can see if you know anything about the history of anaga fashion you can see it it's like a it's like an imprint that's still there but you've given like you've demonstrated like this is how you create a modern brand out of a Heritage House it's more elegant I find also it's like it's not cuz it would be easy to take a we tried I mean would be to try a to to to to make a replica of something and make the sleeves different but it just doesn't work it looks fake because he did it the way he wanted to do it already my purpose was there to really try to find myo like fit my story MH with his legacy in a very um delicate way that would not be too much in your face but you would be like oh yeah it's a c of course it's a cocon but it's not like an old cocon it's a you know I've also it took me a few years to realize that oh I'm not trying to mimic Chris Bal I can never do that would never it would be completely you know um I don't think smart from my side to do that you know but I'm trying to find Parallels for sure because that's I mean what's the reason for me being there then you know because it's important otherwise I just but also to stay true to yourself I think that's coutur gives me the opportunity to also be free and ready to wear that's an interesting thing it's funny to me that or it's strange I think that people some people found the idea of Balenciaga Street Wear shocking especially in the third decade we're now the third decade of the Millennium the fact that you were doing Couture at the highest level and also doing street wear at the coolest level or at the fastest level almost and it's and also it's not as if other luxury brands in the past they've done sneakers yeah Jess skier and they they had hip-hop references and you could name it jessier also did collections at Balenciaga in the early days that were Street Wear inspired and so I'm like why did your stuff why has you why has this unsettled people that you can do both basically it has unsettled people yeah I mean I think it's still unsettled people it's it's because maybe there is a lack of sensitivity towards what street wear is because you know I think there's a lot of very very bad street wear even like on not in the luxury level like just I mean mostly if you go and see like what I don't know I have this thing I walk on the street and I look at people and I look at their clothes and I imagine those clothes hanging on hangers M and I see how the neckline is too wide and how the rib is too small it's it's I cannot do I can't help myself this is really happening like I literally see them in the store and seeing all the disproportions MH that I would want to correct it's all Street Wear and I think when I do Street Wear what people call Street Wear even though you know I'm not even sure like if it's a t-shirt doesn't mean it's a street street but I spend a lot of time on the neckline I have people come to me sometimes I don't know them and they're like oh IED demna they're like I want to tell you that that t-shirt you did like and then they tell me what t-shirt they have like one it's the best T-shirt I ever had such as not fit of the the neckline and everything like it's my favorite favorite they don't want to do like that's the only thing they want to tell me and then they leave this is like almost Couture level of compliment to me you know when someone comes to express the neckline of the t-shirt and it's not easy and I've seen people actually buying Balenciaga t-shirts I'm just talking about the most basic thing you know and then doing I can recogn I can recognize the pattern but then the fabric is I don't know it's why do people get unsettled by it I don't know why I've heard this for a while and I'm like wait a minute why shouldn't bance this to me is also an expression of the the modern world today we live in a different time everything is faster access why shouldn't Balenciaga do an Innovative sneaker and be make it be a little bit aggressive looking or whatever why shouldn't it I think that the world kind of expects this now from high fashioned houses as you said it was being done before but I think the way I brought it at Balenciaga was quite massive because it's a big part of my design vocabulary you know and it was very obvious first of all the reaction was like well why should I pay this and this and this much money for that when I can buy it for well you can't really buy that you know what I mean it's like it depends how you see that you cannot buy that you know a sneaker cannot be a product that the luxury brand proposes why I mean it's it's as well a shoe as a stiletto right you know for someone and actually more people wear sneakers today than they wear and you know there's been this whole narrative since years now Street Wear is no longer there it's finished now it's all everybody's wearing loafers and you know I don't know kashere jackets well I don't see those people I'm sorry I'm going to say that's wishful thinking that's I mean I've been reading this for years now like goodbye Street Wear I mean whatever slow luxury okay which I I get it but it's still like people don't dress like that like just you have to be realistic about it and they're not going back and they're not going to it's just like it's it's the same like people say oh how can we live with social Med we just have to learn how to the same with Street Wear it's not going to go anywhere but I'm trying to just make it better but it's also a lot about V I mean the sneaker we we've now noticed that we work on a new sneaker for the time we need is minimum one year oh wow one year so the one I didn't have a sneaker in March and everybody was like oh thanks God the first show without the sneaker it's not because I I just didn't have a sneaker actually we still we started working on it in October so it's going to come out in October okay because I need at least a year to do that it's it's a sculpture it's like make the less here take I mean we put like literally we use like very manual techniques to do that you know recently in a profile of demna in an American Magazine the writer said quote the strains in his work that some people interpret as cynical are often aching and personal I asked demna if he thinks that's true many of his shows have reference things that are personal like the one that had models trudging through snow as a boy he experienced Civil War and his family were refugees for a time he might be the only major designer whose known totalitarian ISM firsthand there is a lot of heart and there is a lot of hurt as well I mean I put a lot of personal emotional things into and it happens it's not like I just I want to do it it somehow happens and I think that's the magic of it too that it does happen uh I often thought like oh am I using my job as a kind of self therapy you know because I don't know because it does open a lot of things in me like I realize like thinks about myself through my work cynicisms though I I have I don't know I have I cannot completely agree with that because I think it's t yeah there has something a little bit negative or a little bit arrogant to it which I think that whenever it's what that's what people perceive I'm actually trying to kind of be funny or I don't know like there is this there is this humor I think my sense of humor in general is quite not dark but it's like spicy let put it this way you know I'm not like you know and I love people with who I can exchange about it and I have a lot of people like this in my teams who have similar sense of humor so when we work on products like that which turn out to be something that people consider cynical I think it's that and unfortunately I believe it's really a bit of a misinterpretation not it's nobody's fault I think it's like we don't do that intentionally for people to be like oh they're being cynical well there will be some products like that coming out from me soon because are some kind of commentary on the industry and on the whole you know commercialization of fashion all that is it cynicism I think it's more of a realism in a way I just talk you know I never try to be judgmental about that at all because that's not the but it's fair game to comment I think all those things become fair game just like you did with the parliament show these are things that you can respond to and fashion can you've been very like I said Nimble about that and very thoughtful about those you know that that these these are things that happen in front of us whether it's red carpet celebrity whether it's the the sis the fashion there's lots of things to comment on it but I think I don't know whether yeah maybe because also is like it comes off people think of it as I don't I don't is cynical but I think if it is quite dry spicy is your word there is a quite dry yeah it is it is and maybe it's a b it's a counterbalance to all the sort of maybe that's my part of not being the Western Western designer well it's kind of refreshing I think it's um yeah I don't know when I was a kid like if I would laugh or you know smile too much or laugh my parents would tell me stop doing that you look stupid you and Carl leri's parents he used but it wasn't just my parents that's a mentality that's a culture thing that if you love too much people will think you're you're stupid ah you see it's like maybe the dryness comes with all of that my childhood trauma but no but that's a good one that's good I mean I think yeah yeah I could see parents saying that at that time yeah like you know like never be too proud of yourself like never it's a bit the opposite of what I think kids are told in in America in schools like be confident and where I grew up was like oh oh oh confidence is really embarrassing that's what I heard blena has also been far-reaching in its collaborations a year ago at Couture it introduced a handbag an actual boom box that it created with bang and Olson and a face shield developed by Mercedes Engineers where did this idea come from how did this develop do you remember um yeah I wanted a Couture bag that was not a bag because you know this whole um industry turns around bags at the end of the day that's all they want to sell all the time right I was like what do I do in Couture that is not the actual bag but it has that gesture of a bag because you have to carry it and it's another type of object and I mean like when I was teenager and I lived in this post Soviet country we we would do that we would just carry our I remember I had this GVC thing that was a CD player that I could literally carry as a back and I thought it was oh it's a nice back it's really a gesture thing that this comes from but then in terms of design we're like okay let's design something that looks very like you know very modern very minimal and they have a very good quality of sound I mean I use a lot of bangan ol of sound at home but did you C did you reach out to them yes you know you can open it in the I know I'm trying to figure out how do you open it you have to just push on it normally I mean I don't yeah so that's that's where the bag is well so you can actually store some things it's not not very spacious but but it's enough for somebody yeah um so and did bang and ol have any like were they like why do you want to do this or how were they open to it how did they react uh I think we need to explain first a little bit they knew about Vala Kure and it seemed quite fast and and smooth actually they were like okay we're up to it like we have limitations they told us because often these kind of you know technical things they limits of what they can do so they told us about that so we would consider it in you know whatever we would design it was really a collaboration it was back and forth I mean they produced it obviously uh but from the aesthetic point of view we were on it then we sent it to them they said oh this would not work we need place for buttons to I mean it's quite a it's a different type of object we're not used to do that so it was a was quite interesting actually at one point I thought it would not uh even like work out in time because sometimes things like this they take much longer than we need for a collection toel you know but they did a good job they did a great job do you have other things in the works that you want to I mean or is it just a question of time been able to to you have so many other things is like I would think it' be really exciting to be able to do you did also the the visor with mercedesbenz the the face shield but is it just a question of time or reaching out getting to the right companies that will collaborate is it can have the ideas but getting getting we have a few ideas now but it's as you said it's also about reaching out to the right contact person because these are not people in you know they don't know even sometimes we have to present what the brand is because they don't know who we are you know like oh what I do you just do like weird clothes so we have to kind of and then it's also um lead time because that's it's very different like I I want to work on something already getting in touch right now with a company who does completely different type of object product if I can call it but it would only be at the end of next year right potentially if they agree in the next two weeks right so that's a bit of a so I can never plan in that collection I can have that but I think it's very exciting to be able to do things that are different with Mercedes it was nice because we've designed the The Shield but actually they couldn't breathe in it it was I mean you could breathe but it would steam so you wouldn't see them so the whole that was not practical it's not a very practical thing anyways but you couldn't actually wear it for long and then we figured out that Mercedes they do this for Formula One also so we're like let's reach out to them and see if they and they did the whole aerody dynamic study on the inside of the shield of how the the hot air that you breathe out how it could go so they really studied it and it works you know it's that was more like a knowhow thing like their knowledge that we try to use the other day here in Paris I had a discussion with a executive and we were talking about the shift in the industry from very strong Visionary designers of the generation that included McQueen and gallano to creative directors who are more a part of the machine today who are have these big teams and blah blah blah and with also with this huge marketing component that now exists you know you are clearly a Visionary designer I feel like you know I've seen different designers come through both in Milan and London and Paris and you know I think of margel at heres you know changing people's perceptions about what's possible um Tom Ford at Gucci back in the day and I mean I could go on you know McQueen obviously I said to this executive I said I think there's a shortage you guys I said to him you know you guys are in trouble there's a shortage of young designers coming up today in their 20s we may not know about them in a broad way but they're you know in the '90s in the early beginning of the Millennium we could turn we could name a bunch of designers who were coming up who were the Next Generation the ones who were The Heirs to the goas and the helmet Langs and the mug Ray kokuba um and and I asked him about that and I said this going to be a difficulty for when you have creative directors now and some of these big brands that have become $15 billion Brands who's going to be qualified to step into those positions and he we talked about it a while and then he said to me and I quote the machine of the industry will create the designers of the future do you think do you think that's true and does there something kind of just disturbing about that of the indust but I think it has already created the design I'm not sure they are designers of the future because they are yet to deliver something that people will really want to have and buy and not the buz I call it like fashion buzziness rather than fashion business it's yes it seems that that that that sort of produces more of the same yeah I would say that hearing this from an executive is scary probably like I like if I would be some a young designer who has a vision and I hear something like this I'll be like why should I even try right because at the end of the day they'll take an influencer from Tik Tok who has 150 million follower and put that person as a creative director because that person can create nothing apart from that attention but the problem is creating attention is one thing in the long run I think this is where the danger lies cuz they don't realize it it's a very shortsighted strategy of we just need to sell as much as we can now but I think it destroys the image of these Brands too because I think also the consequences is is what happens to the evolution of fashion the evolution of clothing if you well it will go south for sure like that but I mean can um I don't know can an actor a famous actor make a really good design of the product it's it's out of question they can maybe be a good actor I think that's the problem but the problem is also that the executives in these big houses often um don't really care about the future of fashion I think I have a feeling sometimes and that's a Pity and I think it's very demotivating also for the actual young Talent right they don't dare I see a lot of like great like well what's the point like you know I can never get anywhere look there is like you know someone famous taking my job that I can actually do and I can put bring these things further right the machine of the industry creates an illusion rather than designers that's the problem I love what you had to say backstage today because we are here in the Couture houses you know as we know and when you were being you know the when you meet all the reporters backstage and you you you spoke very eloquently about what design is I wanted to say more but I thought like no but I thought you spoke very okay this is what this you know and we saw that today with the pieces that came out the trumple oil the you know the um uh the way the tailoring was you know the the fact that you evolved the the silhouette from what you had been doing the last couple of Seasons it was still look like Balenciaga but you as as one should you moved it on I think that is like a it's it's so important now and I and I I would I am concerned too that there isn't enough attention on design and what that really means there is I would say not only enough attention I think there is no interest in it yeah that's why I said I I said I think that it's a very critical State yeah now more critical than ever because what happens with the phone with the internet and with all the social platforms it's very easy to lose that Essence but that Essence is what gives the longevity the long-term Prospect to it cuz otherwise it's just you know yeah and that's it but the problem is people at one point will not buy it anymore just because there is someone famous behind because the design is right people want good things and they will want more and more to pay their money for something that someone thought of and went through the proc and this is something you cannot just learn once you are a creative director appointed yeah once you in the machine it it is in this these once you're in the machine you learn how to do what other people tell you to do but that's a problem that's when you don't you know I know I know I know and I think there is a problem this there is this kind of confusion between luxury being fashion also I I really have my doubts about that I think fashion has been taken hostage a bit right by the luxury industry yeah and now it doesn't really need it anymore but there is a good thing to it because I think it gives space a new space for real fashion right to evolve without that concept of it has to to be luxury on you know what I mean I think there must be a good outcome to or at least maybe I'm trying to be an optimist I don't know [Applause] [Music] is sing is s [Applause] toyy be [Applause] [Music] s

Channel: Triennale Milano

Views: 54,129

Keywords: triennale di milano, triennale milano, triennale, design, architecture, architettura, milano, milan, italy

Id: 6rDjj4ZnGsw

Length: 53min 50sec (3230 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 22 2024