>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY! WELCOME BACK! FOLKS, MY FIRST GUEST IS AN
ACADEMY AWARD-WINNING ACTRESS YOU KNOW FROM "JERRY MacGUIRE,"
"COLD MOUNTAIN," AND "BRIDGET JONES'S DIARY." HER NEW FILM IS "JUDY." >> WHAT? >> THE FIGHTS OVER CUSTODY, YOUR
CHILDREN LIVING AWAY FROM YOU. >> I MEAN, IF I'M A TERRIBLE
MOTHER THEY LIKE TO WRITE ABOUT, WELL, YOU TELL ME HOW I END UP
WITH SUCH INCREDIBLE KIDS. >> BUT I WASN'T SUGGESTING--
>> WELL, NO, EVERYBODY SUGGESTS THINGS, LIKE I'M-- LIKE I'M NOT
A REAL PERSON, BUT I AM. YOU UNDERSTAND, I'M ONLY JUDY
GARLAND FOR AN HOUR A NIGHT. THE REST OF THE TIME I'M-- I'M
PART OF A FAMILY. I JUST WANT WHAT EVERYBODY
WANTS. I SEEM TO HAVE A HARDER TIME
GETTING IT. >> Stephen: PLEASE WELCOME
RENEE ZELLWEGER! ♪ ♪ ♪<i>
( APPLAUSE )</i> ( "OVER THE RAINBOW" )<i>
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )</i> ( "OVER THE RAINBOW" )<i>
( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )</i> >> THANKS SO MUCH! HI! WOW! I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN A LONG
TIME! >> Stephen: NO, WELCOME BACK. >> WOW, THANKS VERY MUCH. >> Stephen: THE ED SULLIVAN
THEATER. >> YLOVELY. COLD AS I RECALL. <i> ( LAUGHTER ).</i> >> Stephen: YOU GOTTA KEEP IT
FRESH GEE, KEEP EVERYBODY WEAK, RIGHT? >> Stephen: EXACTLY, WE TREAT
OUR AUDIENCE AND OUR GUESTS LIKE PRODUCE. THE ENTIRE BUILDING IS LIKE ONE
BIG CRISPER DRAWER. >> I'M FEELING THAT. I'M FEELING IT. >> Stephen: GOOD. WELL, THIS MOVIE, YOUR
PERFORMANCE IS GETTING RIOUTOUS ACCOLADES. THE CLIPS I HAVE SEEN ARE
INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL, IT'S AN INCREDIBLE TRANSFORMATION INTO
THIS ICONIC AMERICAN CULTURAL FIGURE-- WORLD FIGURE, REALLY. HOW FAMILIAR WERE YOU WITH JUDY
GARLAND'S LIFE BEFORE YOU GOT IN THIS ROLE? WHAT KIND OF RESEARCH DID YOU
DO? >> WELL, I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT THIS CHAPTER IN HER LIFE THAT THE FILM FOCUSES
ON, WHICH IS TOWARD THE END OF HER LIFE, THE LAST FEW MONTHS
BEFORE SHE PASSED. I HAD NO IDEA THE STRUGGLE THAT
SHE WAS EXPERIENCING, AND THE CHALLENGES SHE WAS GRAPPLING
WITH. AND I DON'T KNOW. I JUST-- I DON'T KNOW THAT A LOT
OF PEOPLE KNOW. I MEAN, SHE SEEMS TO BE FROZEN
IN TIME. AND THAT MOMENT WHEN SHE WAS
IMMACULATE AND, YOU KNOW, SHE CARVED HER PLACEAT THE TABLE OF
AMERICAN ICONS. AND, BOY, SHE DESERVED IT,
DIDN'T SHE? SOMETHING ELSE, AMERICAN
TREASURE. I DID WHAT MOST PEOPLE DO-- I
WENT DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE OF YOUTUBE AND STAYED THERE AS LONG
AS I COULD, YOU KNOW, UNTIL SUN-UP. >> Stephen: THE INTERNET AS WE
CALL IT. YOU CLICK ON ONE CLIP. ANYTHING THAT SPOKE TO YOU
PARTICULARLY FOR THIS TIME PERIOD? >> WELL, DID LOVE-- I DID LOVE
WATCHING "THE JUDY GARLAND SHOW," BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT
OF WONDERFUL OUTTAKES NOW. >> Stephen: THIS IS FROM THAT
PERIOD OF TIME. >> OH, YEAH, THERE IT IS! >> Stephen: THERE'S JUDY FROM
THAT PERIOD OF TIME. IT'S INCREDIBLE. AND THEN THIS IS YOU. >> OH, WOW. <i> ( APPLAUSE )</i>
WOW, LOOK AT THAT. WELL, THANKS! THAT'S VERY SWEET. WELL AND, YOU KNOW, THE INTERNET
IS A FABULOUS RESEARCH TOOL, ISN'T IT? >> Stephen: I'VE HEARD GOOD
THINGS, YEAH. >> YEAH. NO, I JUST IMMERSED MYSELF IN,
YOU KNOW, THE TREASURES OF HER LEGACY FOR QUITE SOME TIME. A LOT OF BOOKS, A LOT OF
BIOGRAPHIES, LISTENED TO HER MUSIC A LOT OF TIME. WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL AUDIO
RECORDINGS THAT WERE PART OF SOMEBODY'S PERSONAL ARCHIVE THAT
JUST BECAME PUBLIC BECAUSE OF THIS INTERNET. I'M VERY GRATEFUL, THANK YOU. >> Stephen: SHE'S AN ICON NOT
JUST OF MUSIC BUT SORT OF SHE'S AN AVATAR OF A CERTAIN LEVEL OF
PERSONAL SUFFERING THAT GETS HIDDEN BEHIND THE SPARKLE OF
SHOW BUSINESS. >> YEAH, SURE. >> Stephen: SO SHE SORT OF
HAS, FOR MANY PEOPLE, BEEN A SORT OF FELLOW SPIRIT OF
UNSHARABLE GRIEF OR ANXIETY OR DEPRESSION. AND WERE THERE THINGS THAT YOU
LEARNED ABOUT HER LIFE THAT SURPRISED YOU? >> UHM--
>> Stephen: AS YOU DUG DEEPER. >> WELL, IT WOULD NEVER OCCUR TO
ME THAT A PERSON WHO HAD WORKED, AT THAT LEVEL FOR, AT THE TIME--
THE SETTING OF THIS FILM, 44 YEARS, I SUPPOSE-- THAT SHE
WOULD BE FACING FINANCIAL HARDSHIP. >> Stephen: NO PLACE TO LIVE,
RIGHT? >> NO PLACE TO LIVE. SHE DIDN'T HAVE A HOME. SHE WAS STRUGGLING BECAUSE OF,
YOU KNOW, THE CIRCUMSTANCES AROUND HER DIVORCE AND, YOU
KNOW, FINDING EMPLOYMENT WAS CHALLENGING FOR HER BECAUSE, YOU
KNOW, I GUESS THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE LIKE TO WRITE ABOUT HER
WERE NOT SO KIND AND MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR HER TO TAKE
CARE OF HERSELF. >> Stephen: AND SHE HAD BEEN
ONE OF THE BIGGEST STARS IN THE WORLD. >> YES, FOR A VERY LONG TIME. AND THEN SOME OF THESE ICONIC
FILMS THAT HAVE SORT OF SHAPED AMERICAN PUBLIC CULTURE. >> Stephen: AND IN THIS CLIP
AND OTHER CLIPS THAT I'VE SEEN, YOU GET A SENSE THAT SHE IS
STRUGGLING WITH WHO SHE IS AS A PERSON AND WHO THE AUDIENCE
WANTS HER TO BE, THAT ONE HOUR A DAY, SHE SAYS. "ONLY ONE HOUR A DAY AM I JUDY
GARLAND. THE REST OF IT I'M JUST WHAT
EVERYBODY ELSE WANTS." DO YOU AS A STAR EVER FEEL THAT
TENSION OF THERE IS SOMETHING THE AUDIENCE WANTS ME TO BE, AND
THERE IS THE LIFE I WANT TO LIVE, AND I DON'T WANT TO
DISAPPOINT THE AUDIENCE, BUT I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE THE DIRECTION
OF MY LIFE IS THE DIRECTION OF THE PERSONA THAT THEY SEE. >> WELL, I UNDERSTAND THE GULF
BETWEEN THE PERSONA AND THE TRUTH OF A HUMAN EXPERIENCE,
CERTAINLY. AND IT'S INTERESTING, BECAUSE
SOMETIMES I'LL SEE SOME THINGS, AND I'LL THINK, "OH, I NEVER MET
THAT PERSON," THE PERSONA. >> Stephen: THE THINGS THAT
PEOPLE WRITE ABOUT YOUR PERSON. >> YES, YES. BUT I GUESS BECAUSE I'M NOT A
LIVE PERFORMER, I DON'T-- I DON'T SORT OF SHARE THAT
EXPERIENCE OF EXPECTATIONS. AND I'M NOT REALLY AWARE. I FORGET THAT IT EXISTS. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M BUSY. I GOTTA GET THE DOGS THEIR
MEDICINE EVERY DAY, AND I HAVE A YOUNG NIECE AND NEPHEW AND, YOU
KNOW, I'M BUSY. SO I DON'T REALLY-- I'M NOT
AWARE OF THE EXPERIENCE OF FAME UNTIL IT BECOMES NECESSARY THAT
I PAY ATTENTION TO IT, YOU KNOW. >> Stephen: RIGHT. FAME IT A TOOL, I ALWAYS
THOUGHT, THAT GETS YOU MORE WORK. >> THAT'S INTERESTING. >> Stephen: YES. THAT'S ALL IT'S GOOD FOR,
REALLY. >> POSSIBLY, YEAH, ACCESS TO
LEARNING THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE HAVE OCCASION TO,
EVEN EXPERIENCES. I MEAN, IT'S REALLY-- IT IS
FANTASTIC IN THAT WAY. >> Stephen: AND IF YOU'RE JUST
FAMOUS ENOUGH, THE GUYS ON THEIR COLLEGE INTERNSHIPS AT, LIKE,
THE PLANT STORE WILL ACTUALLY BRING THE TURF OUT TO YOUR CAR
FOR YOU. >> IS THAT TRUE? >> Stephen: YEAH, THAT'S WHAT
IT'S FOR. THAT'S WHAT FAME IS REALLY FOR. SOMEONE ELSE BRINGS THE MULCH TO
YOUR CAR IS THE IDEA. >> I WASN'T MADE AWARE OF THAT. THIS IS A VERY EXCITING NIGHT
FOR ME. THANK YOU. >> Stephen: CHECK THE BACK OF
YOUR "FAME" CARD. IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU GET
FOR BEING FAMOUS. >> WHERE HAVE I BEEN? SNRT MOVIE UNDERSCORES THAT
GARLAND IS THE VICTIM OF WHAT WAS CALLED "THE HOLLYWOOD
SYSTEM." SHE STARTED WORKING WHEN-- HOW
OLD WAS SHE? >> OH, GOSH, I GOT THIS NUMBER
IT'S FIRST TIME ON STAGE WAS TWO. >> Stephen: TWO YEARS OLD. >> SINGING "JINGLE BELLS," OVER
AND OVER AGAIN. WHEN THE MUSIC STOPPED, SHE
STARTED AGAIN, AND SHE JUST ADORED THE LAUGHTER FROM THE
AUDIENCE SO MUCH, THAT SHE JUST WANTED TO KEEP ON SINGING UNTIL
THEY HAD TO CARRY HER-- LITERALLY CARRY HER OFF. >> Stephen: HOW OLD WERE YOU
THE FIRST TIME YOU PERFORMED? >> I HAD A, YOU KNOW, VERY
DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE. >> Stephen: I'M NOT SAYING
THAT YOU'RE IN THE STUDIO SYSTEM OF LOUIS B. MAYER. I'M JUST CURIOUS THE FIRST TIME
YOU GOT ON STAGE. >> WELL, I ADORED-- I STILL
ADORE MY BROTHER, SORRY, DREW, PAST TENSE. I ADORED MY BROTHER, AND HE WAS
A DRAMA KID IN JUNIOR HIGH, AND I DECIDED THAT, THAT LOOKED LIKE
A GREAT IDEA. SO TO HIS HORROR I JOINED THE
DRAMA CLUB, AND HE QUIT. >> Stephen: BECAUSE HIS SISTER
SHOWED JIEWP OH, ABSOLUTELY. DON'T BIG BROTHERS WANT TO GET
AS FAR FROM THEIR LITTLE SISTERS AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN? THAT WAS MY EXPERIENCE ANYWAY. I HOPE IT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S
EXPERIENCE. <i> ( LAUGHTER )</i>
>> Stephen: WELL, SHE-- SHE WAS-- AS I WAS SAYING, SHE WAS A
VICTIM OF THE HOLLYWOOD SYSTEM, WHICH COULD BE VERY ABUSIVE,
ESPECIALLY TO WOMEN. IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THERE'S
BEEN A RECKONING IN THE WAY HOLLYWOOD TREATS WOMEN. DO YOU REALLY THINK THINGS ARE
BETTER NOW? OR DO YOU THINK THIS IS A
SUSTAINING, LASTING CHANGE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW? >> I THINK IT'S INEVITABLE,
REALLY. AND NOT JUST IN HOLLYWOOD BUT
FOR WOMEN I 99 ANY INDUSTRY. I MEAN, IT'S INEVITABLE BECAUSE
THE YOUNG WOMEN WHO ARE COMING OF AGE TODAY HAVE NEVER REALLY
KNOWN A TIME WHEN THERE HASN'T BEEN A CHANCELLOR MERKEL, WHEN
THERE HASN'T BEEN A BARBARA WALTERS, WHEN THERE HASN'T BEEN,
YOU KNOW, A PRIME MINISTER JACINDA. THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOUNG WOMEN
TODAY. AND IN THE INEQUITIES WOMEN
BEFORE HAVE CONTENDED WITH DOTE REALLY MAKE SENSE TO THEM. AND WE'RE HAVING THE
CONVERSATION, AND SO THAT'S A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION,
INNOCENT SNNT IT? >> Stephen: YEAH. WE HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK. PLEASE STICK AROUND. AND YOU STICK AROUND, TOO,
BECAUSE WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH MORE RENEE ZELLWEGER.
