Relationship Red Flags with Matthew Hussey | Season 2; Ep 1

this podcast should not be used as a substitute for medical or mental health advice individuals are advised to seek independent medical advice counseling and or therapy from a health care professional with respect to any medical condition mental health issue or health inquiry including matters discussed on this podcast this episode discusses abuse which may be triggering to some people the views and opinions expressed are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast and do not represent the opinions of red table talk Productions I heart Media or their employees so if I can be curious note that the next thing I'm going to do is the next best thing or it's going to be the perfect thing but if I can just be curious about a way of living that's not mine but curiosity is the gateway to a new belief and it's much easier to to flow with curiosity than it is to suddenly go I can believe something different can you figure bro if you are dating a narcissist that question comes up all the time and you are about to find out that it's the wrong question after the thousands of videos and content and social media posts that talk about the biggest red flags and the five signs that you're dating a narcissist turns out it may not be the right approach today we are going to hear from one of the best dating and relationships experts in the business Matthew Hussey if you don't know Matthew he is a New York Times best-selling author and has the number one dating advice channel in the world his YouTube videos have been viewed more than 470 million times and his content reaches more than 10 million followers weekly he is also the host of the podcast love life with Matthew Hussey today we're gonna hear his perspective and belief that by putting all of your effort into trying to avoid another toxic relationship you may be missing what he believes is the real antidote which is focusing on you giving yourself permission to hold standards for yourself and slowing way down and we will also talk about why this is uniquely difficult for survivors of narcissistic relationships Matthew's a good friend and it is a pleasure to welcome him here on navigating narcissism we're here with Matthew Hussey Matthew welcome it's so nice to have you here what a great way to kick off this second season I'm so honored and happy to be here I've done many many kind of podcasts in my life but this is this is a special one for me to be able to team up with you well it's so it's so nice to have you I thought I when I woke up this morning I thought ah I have a friend coming on today and and these conversations we've had in sort of bits and pieces we've had them you know to to your community but we've never had one that's I think all entirely focused on you know what I really consider is dating in the era of narcissism where it seems to be so ubiquitous we've talked a lot about the back end of these stories what happens when relationships become toxic what happens to people but what we don't talk about is sort of the front end and so that's what I'd love for us to talk about to hear from you a a dating expert who's not only worked with thousands of women and I know a lot of women have really been transformed by your advice but what's compelling to me is you've also worked with thousands of men how are you helping them navigate these Waters from there's there's toxic people there so what do you think is what are you telling them is the most efficient way to pick out toxic patterns early on when they meet someone new I would almost start with the first principle which is that you you we have to stop trying to become these razor-sharp experts all the time in immediately within minutes or hours of knowing someone what their nature is and actually to be honest kind of maybe a little bit give up on that idea the problem is the moment we get arrogant about how great we are at deciding how wonderful everyone else is you know we love saying about ourselves I'm a wonderful judge of character I think I'm a great judge of character and man have I got it wrong in my life you know when I when I even take my business I have made hires that I'm convinced are going to be so great we you know they in every way they seem to pass the checks the interview is amazing and you know I I'm convinced this is going to be great and I sell the team on them you know and that's the hard part I sell the team on them this person is going to be great and then they turn out not to be competent or they turn out to have an issue once it gets hard once it actually becomes difficult once the reality of the job sets in it's really humbling for me how wrong I can be I always remember those moments yeah yeah because it the next time I I always remind myself that firstly we don't know even by the way you know calling someone's references is a much better way as it is to know and and it's always shocking to me still how these days how few of us actually do call People's references but even when we call People's references we rarely get the truth from those references we rarely get the real difficult parts of that relationship and why that person may have been let go or why the relationship didn't work out why they're no longer working for that company and in dating we don't even get references no can you imagine if we did though can you imagine if you could call references when you were dating someone oh what a world it would be extraordinary if you've really got an Insight but we don't and so we're relying on in the beginning probably a dating profile for a lot of people these days or a first meeting or a first date and it really tells you very little about the relationship tells you a lot about how fun someone is to spend an hour or two with how Charming they are and even certain things that we might say are good indicators you might say well this person is a great listener you know because I always think that one kind of caricatured way of looking at a narcissist on a date is that a narcissist is is more worried about being impressive than they are being impressed by you they they they want to show you how great they are I always say narcissists will give you the day of your life you know you you will have the most amazing time and you'll come away screaming about how wonderful it was right um but that's because they impressed you most likely it's because there's something about them and the show they put on that was really exciting so you could say okay well that then you really have to say who's impressed by me who's a good listener who actually asks me questions and that's a that's certainly a tick but it's also something that people can do when they know how to make you like them even more you know if I if I'm a good listener and if I ask you lots of questions about yourself and I'm engrossed then I also know that that's going to have a big impact on you so I think that I guess the punch line is that character true character the kind of character we're looking for is the right values over time and time is what you do not have early on yeah when you're making those judgments and that's why I almost think we have to let go of this idea that we're so razor sharp at judging people and instead say I don't know I haven't heard anyone say it quite that way and I love that idea of we've got to get over this idea of us being this expert and great judge of character from the jump for a couple of reasons I can say as recently as the last few months the mistakes I've made and people I let them if I don't know and this is what I do I I we do we aren't and there's there's a reason for that where I want to get to in a minute but by putting this onus on people if you should be able to pick this up because I get that question all the time Dr Romney tell us five things to look for on the first date I'm like oh it's early like do they scream at the valet I don't know you know and so but I think that what you've even done is even lifted that pressure off of someone like me who's being asked an impossible question because what it does is it lifts the shame from people who say why didn't I pick up on all these red flags on the first date now when you back construct it one or two years in they'll say oh some of the stuff is right there on the first date but again we're really good at retrospectively putting pieces together it's really hard in real time when you yourself are also in a state of sort of heightened like who is this person I'm learning about them you can't you can't be the expert and I think that that's that's actually very freeing for people to hear that it is you cannot be sort of narcissism detective or toxic detective or anything like that on a first date it's just it's it's a ridiculous ask 100 and and it also can turn us into a person we don't want to be right essentially just a detective for red flags yeah that's not a version of us we want to be it doesn't make us a compelling person to spend time with it makes us someone who's constantly kind of squinting and flinching and looking at everyone's move and trying to extrapolate that out right and I I prefer to be a little less judgmental in a way but also a little less quick to decide how wonderful someone is kind of almost almost have fun be in the moment enjoy the day I'm not saying to someone be unromantic about the date itself have that great time but we have to have ways of of checking ourselves and kind of letting some of that pressure out afterwards so that you know it's almost like we blow off we like have to burn off a bit of that energy that's been created sometimes times because it's uh it's a potent mix when we want to find love add in add in uh some excitement at having met someone you have a connection with add in a little insecurity add in some scarcity that you haven't met anyone you liked in a while and and you have a very potent mix you are no longer a a neutral judge of this situation and and so I think that people have to say it's we'll see is a magical phrase we'll see you you know your friends will ask you how was the date and you say oh my God it was such a great day and and he did this and he did that and they did this and your friends will say oh my God and they'll amp you up even more your friends are dangerous yeah yeah yeah because they then amp you up yeah and there has to be a to me we'll see captures it perfectly it doesn't say I'm pessimistic it just says I I don't know what I don't know could this become something well maybe we'll see is this person as wonderful as I hope they are yeah we'll see right so it's pacing because you're you're you're talking now about something that I talk a lot about in narcissistic relationships which is discernment right so and discernment is that part between not constantly looking for red flags but also not getting almost sort of drunk on the wonderfulness of it all it's finding that middle ground where you're saying basically slow your roll a little bit like take it slow take it in and enjoy the goodness don't feel like you have to be a detective but also give yourself time to be Discerning but if we if we take our time with anything we are going to learn a lot more about it and there is a rush I think people feel a rush to feel yes and look I've met friends in the last 48 hours new new people that I really really like and impressed and I'm impressed with and in some cases I'm a little kind of almost intimidated by it because they've done such wonderful things in their life and they you know there's I feel that urge in me I feel that the teenage Matthew kind of rise up and go I want to be light so badly by this person I think they're great I think they're I like who they are they have a wonderful way about them I want this person to like me and I perpetrator as anyone of like putting out red flag videos because you know in our world we do it but I almost worry that sometimes we create so many red flags that we're we're in danger of labeling ourselves a red flag because I'm like with all these different red flags I've put out there at some point I'm going to be accused of one of these things and one of the ways that I almost sensed that I become a red flag is like that moment where I get really excited about someone I know I'm liable to text them and gush in ways that maybe aren't organic to how well we know each other yet or how much this person has actually done you know and in that moment I speed up the relationship at an inorganic Pace interesting and and and so I think what happens is we we sometimes can be as much a part of that dynamic as somebody else you know it's yeah I know you talk a lot about love bombing what about when we're doing a little love but you know like when we're the ones out of insecurity and liking someone so much that are so worried about getting someone to like us that we overdo it and we try to speed the relationship up I think one of the things that's really wonderful about what we're talking about here which is the kind of we'll see approach which is more measured is that there are multiple wins you get out of it one win is you don't steam headfirst into a relationship or a dynamic with someone that isn't earned that is going to make them possibly take advantage of you or you be blindsided by qualities you didn't know with it but the other win that you get from it is that it's actually more attractive because when someone recognizes that you are not someone who has immediately decided this person is the newest best friend you must have in your life and that you'll say anything to get closer to them which then really in their eyes lowers your value because they're like oh I don't have an equal here I have a fan right so that's taking me though okay so I don't have an equal here I don't have a fan that works for some people they like having a fan they want a fan they want to be in a relationship with a fan right so that's where it starts to get a little bit dicey I if you're with somebody who's saying I actually am looking for an equal that's great because that that relationship then if if it gets chance to take root it could really have some potential but because more than a few people out there are looking for fans you know they're looking for a supply they're looking for validation that that just that early response and what you're talking about in many ways sounds like something that's called the Fawn response it's actually a sympathetic nervous system response meant to Foster attachment right so Pete Walker and other people who sort of talk about trauma and attachment talk about the Fawn which is what you're saying trying to win someone over by winning someone over a person then feels safe that's all about safety seeking because that's that's the other thing I think we forget I mean again I often take things down to brass tacks which is sort of trauma attachment safety it's all about safety right so in that first date in any number of ways a person is seeking safety which is where your distinction between being impressive and being impressed starts to get real tricky because for many people who are because we don't when we go on a date the thing on our back the accessory we forget we're wearing is our entire life history and for people who've had histories even childhood histories of invalidation or being just minimized mocked criticized dismissed you go into that date and someone's trying to be impressive that's just that's something that is in the moment feels so restorative because in that moment when someone's trying to be impressive you feel so seen even though being do you want them to be impressed by you that's not even on the radar of somebody who grew up like that right it's like oh my gosh this person did these things for me the idea of someone doing for someone is remarkable so then they feel seen now they're gushing I'm really into this person I'm your fan if you have a personality style where you're looking more for a fan than you are looking for equality I'm starting to see how this Boulder tumbles down the hill yes yes and that's so what we're bringing into that first date of what we need and how we need to be seen and how we need to feel safe is how do you think about that when you're giving when you're guiding people through dating and understanding that we do have safety behaviors and we have holes for trying to fill because that's what we often try to do how do you guide people through that if I have an anxious attachment style after the date I I want to text you and for you to text me back in 10 seconds otherwise I'm gonna be anxious and if you don't text me back for an hour or two I'm gonna it's gonna make me feel unsafe and you don't like me and I like you more than you like me and so on and I think then what we do is we respond to that by doing more of that thing by giving in to that anxious style so I want to text you more now and Chase up on you and maybe even um maybe even tell you that I think you're out of line for not texting me back soon quickly or you're not doing enough I I think it's one thing that can help us is actually starting with the end in mind in terms of the kind of relationship we want hmm so if I was feeling secure in a relationship what kind of relationship would I want to have for example there's a moment in the series The Office where Jim he's actually not someone who gets jealous Pam is off studying in New York yes and he sits at the bar with Pam's EX who is a kind of hot-headed you know jealous male controlling and when he hears that Pam's been out till 3am and left Jim a voice note on like late one night he says to Jim doesn't that concern you um that would concern me that she's out late in New York hanging out with new people and it it puts this thing in Jim's mind for the first time he's not even like that but it infects him with this idea the next thing you know Jim is in the car yeah driving to New York late at night he's like I'm gonna go and find out what's going on and you know he gets a little way into his Drive and all of a sudden he says you know what and he turns the car around and he says no because that is not me and that is not our relationship and to me that was such a powerful moment because it what it did talking about almost putting the power back in our own hands he took accountability for creating the kind of relationship he wanted to be in in other words his safety was not going to come from showing up and finding out that she wasn't doing anything right his safety was going to come from being a leader in creating the kind of relationship he wanted now if she didn't live up to that standard that's a different thing if he later found out but right now he was going to be a leader in creating the kind of relationship that he wants so if you're if you look project forward into the kind of relationship that is your ideal relationship and it's not one where when your partner goes to the bathroom you're checking their phone don't check their phone now if your ideal relationship is one where someone can actually go off the radar for five hours or 10 hours or whatever and you feel fine you feel great because there's no anxiety there you know they love you you know they care about you you know they're loyal if you know if I know if my partner and this relationship has been a beautiful one for me because my partner if she if she disappeared for 24 hours as long as she sent me a text saying I'm safe it wouldn't I would not have jealous feelings I would not have anxiety I wouldn't wonder what she's up to right and now if that's the relationship you want to be in start with behaviors that build that kind of relationship because that relationship is a representation of the kind of relationship where you actually feel safe so that doesn't mean obviously start giving the amount of energy that you would if you were in a full-blown relationship with this person it means do the things in the beginning that imply you're going to have a healthy relationship with this person if the Cadence of what they do if the standard they give you or the respect they give you quickly reveals itself to be one that isn't in line with that that then becomes a conversation and we can talk all about this but I think there's different ways of having the conversation depending on how early it is yeah because there's a way to wade into aggressively or in a way sometimes even too seriously when you don't know someone very well but to me rather than following your style follow the moves that would that would create the kind of safe relationship you actually want to be in model the behavior of the relationship you want to be in and that means by the way if you go if you date someone if you've gone two dates with someone and you haven't heard from them in the last couple of days reach out to them first and and ask them how they're doing and how their day is model the kind of communication you want to see from them instead of just being led by what they're doing right there you're nailing into something that I hear I hear from clients I work with in therapy so I work you know I'll work with young client not even always young clients sometimes clients post divorce their dating I know I'm not supposed to text them they should be texting me how long should I wait before I text back yeah I'm not a dating expert I'm like how long I mean I'm saying what you're saying like if you want to communicate with them communicate with them no no no then I'm gonna feel needy shouldn't they be chasing me I said why would they why and I I'll often be quite perplexed and I'm I think from a more of a you know again maintaining your identity in a healthy sense of self I'm hitting it but not but what you're saying though let's face it and and tell me if I'm wrong is isn't the prevailing wisdom you need to wait that you if you text too soon the whole thing is going to go away bringing it back to this narcissism topic nobody plays the game better than narcissistic people because they're often setting the rules for the game moving the goal posts all over the game in fact they're changing the game you think you're playing soccer then it's rugby and then it's basketball and so it's just shifting all the time they get to be the shifter and so you have someone who's coming in with the best of intentions I'm going to be my I'm gonna I'm gonna try to make this relationship be the way I want I know what I want this to be I wanted to be trusting I wanted to be collaborative I want it to feel safe and secure and now someone is and and they're saying and now they text them and then there's silence because for that other person let's say it's like it is a game for them or they can't be bothered they're just at that point they don't want to do this dance I have a feeling I know your answer but I I'm trying to I'm hitting this from where I think a lot of people are saying that's not been my experience and I was told not to text back yeah so help us understand that Matthew because in a way I'm thinking of every client who's ever asked me this question now I get to go back with the answer so tell us I feel like I have so many different ways of of coming at this so I'll maybe comment it from a couple of different angles firstly attraction is is a dance and you you can't be the same person in the dance you you can't make the same step all the time if in salsa you step backwards the next thing is your turn to step forwards it's not step backwards and then step backwards again and then when they do something step backwards again and just keep being slightly Out Of Reach and just that's that's not a fun dance not for a confident person an insecure man or a man with problems that he needs to fix he will keep pursuing you in that dance but you're attracting a dance partner you shouldn't be trying to attract um so if you step back last time it's kind of your turn to step forwards and if you step forward last time it's kind of your turn to step back and create space and allow them to step forward now but people don't do that in the dance they do one or the other they step backward backward backward I'm gonna just keep them chasing keep them chasing keep him chasing I which by the way I've had in my I've had dates in my life where I was I got to the end of the day and I truly had no idea if this person liked me none other than that they said yes to a date I had no idea by the end of the day I just left the date thinking they definitely aren't interested and then somewhere along the way later on I'd find out they were disappointed I didn't ask them on another date I'd be like I had no indication of that whatsoever so that's like an example of someone who's never stepping forward but then there are people who say under the guise of under the label of I'm proactive they step forwards and the guy maybe texts back but then the next day they step forwards again and they text him and the guy texts back maybe but then the next day they text again so they're the one keep they keep making the step they go why is it I always text him first he never texts me first yeah yeah you're always stepping forward got it and you use there's no rhythm there's no rhythm to this so that's a that's a big problem in that some of the work you've done there's great videos about this it's in your book I find it so compelling and also so challenging and sort of the narcissism landscape which is this idea of Standards which Matthew I think is some of the most important stuff you put out there because what you say about standards isn't just about dating it's about any human relationship we enter into a friendship in the workplace everything and that's what you're sort of you that's where you're getting to with this is this there are there is a standard you set for yourself you're not even saying that there's a uniform set of Standards you're saying there's a standard in many ways it's the standard you you you hold yourself to it's a standard you'd hold others to and it's a standard you hold a relationship that you'd want to be in and that seems to be what you're saying if a person has had a back story where they have felt chronically devalued for any number of reasons how do they start developing that sense of standard because without that Matthew if you do not even with that sense of standard it's hard to date in in a in a world where there might be some invalidating toxic antagonistic people even with those standards without them I mean it's it's a bloodbath so where do those standards come from how are people supposed to cultivate them especially like I said if they've had Legacy issues family of origin issues trauma other stuff that I know people listening to this podcast are saying my backstory doesn't set me up to set standards whenever you talk about standards self-worth always comes into the mix as a conversation right oh you don't love yourself enough so you don't have standards and there's there's always like that becomes kind of the central the heart of the conversation and and I'm not saying that's false I think that's absolutely true you can attack the standards question from a confidence perspective right but you also have to attack it and understand it from the perspective of familiarity of what you know there are things that that we all learn early on that are as much to do with simply what we know as they are to do with confidence confidence almost brings it into a more emotive world as opposed to a world of just this is what I understand I've this is what I've seen this is what I've experienced in my life so I don't know a different game this is a good place to talk about trauma bonding trauma bonding is the conflation of chaos and love of inconsistency with excitement and of having to prove yourself and keep justifying another person's unhealthy or downright toxic Behavior a major originator of the trauma Bond is familiarity when something feels familiar even if it is unhealthy it can feel safe comfortable and just as we may have done in childhood we may associate that unhealthy Behavior with love I've no experienced a different set of rules to me this is how the world is and I think that even when we logically can see that other people are having a different experience than we're having or that their relationship seems to follow a different set of rules when it comes to our own life the emotional reality is what we have experienced I see it like when someone comes out of a relationship let's say in a with a narcissist there is a a complete that person doesn't have reference points no for what healthy looks like for the fact that they can be a different way and for the fact that if they are a different way it it will actually get a different result that's all unmapped territory so what we have to understand is that it you know if you've never if you've never stuck up for yourself and you've not been taught that then you really that is such unknown territory yes it is that that doing it is alien and the idea that if you do it it will actually produce a better result either short-term or long term is you have no reference points for a belief to set there so for me a a huge thing that I think there are two big Solutions one is to recognize that doing what we've been doing makes us not just miserable but creates a kind of living hell for us and one of the reasons that people get out finally is because that living hell has has become too much right they their life has become so chaotic they have lost so much right their life has been blown up to the point where it this hell is no longer I cannot stay here a day longer and so this thing that I've been so terrified of doing which is leaving suddenly becomes the better option my worst fear has finally become the better option so when someone does that I think one of the problems we have in upholding standards is that the hell that made us move in the first place starts to drift and we lose connection with the pain of it and when we lose connection with the pain of it we start to reconsider tolerating the very kinds of behavior that with a new person that landed Us in that hell in the first place so I actually think that if people can find mechanisms for reconnecting to that they don't actually need confidence you don't need confidence if your hand is in a flame you just get your hand out of the flame right right right right so so there's there's connecting with the heat of the flame so that you do something not because you feel so worthy but because you go I just yes no and then we start to build confidence on top of that slowly by beginning to get someone to the point where they can take small actions that create little reference points for the fact that life can be different and I think that is a magical and subtle place to be is just you all you need is an opening in life is is to know that you just need a curiosity that my way of existing and how I've lived and how what I've put up with is not the only way in the world because other everyone else doesn't just live like that so if I can be curious not that the next thing I'm going to do is the next best thing or that it's going to be the perfect thing but if I can just be curious about a way of living that's not mine but curiosity is the gateway to a new belief and it's much easier to to flow with curiosity than it is to suddenly go I can believe something different being curious and and holding space for the idea that it can be different is actually something that really does come out of not only the thinking um on self-compassion Kristen neff's work in that area but it even is something we see in a model of therapy we call acceptance and commitment therapy where it's this idea of it's It's the fancy term Birds cognitive diffusion it's splitting yourself away from your thoughts we become our thoughts okay and people who've gone through narcissistic relationships do become their thoughts they be confused to their thoughts the diffusion becomes you're not your thoughts and to be open that there can be a different one I'm going to push you on the standards conversation because what I'm gonna we're gonna talk about the Dr Romney of it all to say that I am a dating or have been a dating disaster would be would actually be a kind characterization of how I went through this whatever less than zero standards were is Me I would go into these relationships thinking that if I did not yield on everything if I did not do everything on their schedule on their time frame I'm going to lose this person because why would they hang around and I am replaceable now when I think about that because even as you're talking I'm like girl we're your absolute utter lack of Standards what I know where it came from I had Legacy issues around narcissism really the sense was we don't we're not going to see you we're not going to recognize you you're not important okay part of that's cultural Matthew okay I grew up in a culture at a time when having a girl was a bad thing when I was an infant presented to members of the family they actually mocked my mother for having a daughter so these are I truly believe that this early stuff gets wired I was bad because I was a girl and the real belief was who's really going to have you I was a brown girl in this culture which I believed again it's a different time I'm I'm quite a bit older than you so I wasn't attractive so nobody was going to want me people in my own culture weren't going to want me because I was getting too old I was too weird I was too overweight pick something so if somebody gave me even a little bit of attention I was going to do anything oh drive two hours of course I'll drive two hours wait three hours of course I'll wait throughout oh you're actually gonna pay for dinner oh I better do anything you ask me to okay until the very relationship I'm in I had no standards at the beginning that relationship largely ended up working out we're still together I actually had a I read your book recently to prepare for the podcast I had an argument with him I'm like I didn't have standards with you and he's like what do you want me to do about it now and you know and so but here's my point yes is that I zero zero standards multiple narcissistic relationships that devastated me that changed my emotional DNA I don't trust I I struggle in making new friends I and all of that and I know the people who listen to this podcast had very similar experiences it wasn't one relationship this was a lifetime of this Where Do We Begin so you know I understand that and an idea that it could be different that was less of a even something to be open to rather than like a remote hope could it be different it was a question rather than a possibility that's what I'd love to hear you unpack a little bit more again that's why I'm putting myself out there because this isn't an ephemeral question Matthew I live this I know I still really don't have standards so much so having to love the person I'm with very much but if that thing blew up and it could blow up I mean I think we have to hold we have to be aware that that could I've committed to myself I couldn't do it again because I actually am not convinced I feel like it's so wired in me to not have that and I'm lucky that anyone pays attention to me so I don't trust myself I've over corrected [Music] walk us through that a good starting point is to redefine for ourselves what a win is okay I made a video on my YouTube channel recently that was standards related and there was a comment there that really kind of made me pause for a moment this woman said I have tried having standards and all it's meant is me not finding anyone bigger so I've settled for casual because I'm not getting any younger and it means I get to have something instead of nothing and I'd rather at least have something that I can enjoy okay this sounds like my soul sister I've I'm telling you like I feel that in that I maybe I wrote that comment no you actually didn't but I kind of wish I did because it's that good that right there what you're hearing I'm hearing hundreds of times a day from the people who listen to what I put out there which are I do want love I want companionship I don't want to be alone forever but I if the minute I actually put the Line in the Sand as it were and not even a Line in the Sand but really expect engagement at a healthy level it all goes away so it's I'm just going to so it's either die alone lady with cat or it's you know so I I I'm so glad that person made that comment because I can that's exactly what I hear from people asking about these issues and if you're not and if you're ultimately if anyone in a position of coaching uh is treating that comment flippantly then they're not a thinking person right because that is one of the great the kind of existential dilemmas of life I think is that you we're not going to be here forever we have a limited amount of time we're all trying to be happy we're all trying to enjoy it we're all trying to find some love some version of love some version of connection and and some people's reality is feeling like you know yeah I had standards because and you kind of know you kind of with some people you know yeah you had a standard because you had a whole world of people waiting for you over here you know you you had a standard because you felt like you had options and having options makes you feel like you can have a standard more easily then I didn't meet anyone I liked in the last five years and now all of a sudden someone came along and they liked me and that like now becomes very compelling and all of a sudden we're not we're not connecting with well okay but do I do we share the same values uh do we have the same way of looking at life do we have a similar Outlook uh you know is this person actually treating me well it becomes enough that they like me because they're being liked or someone coming along that I'm attracted to and they like me it feels so rare that it now is like I gotta hold on to this and it's a holding on that makes me suddenly do things that I would never normally do or put up with things that I would never normally put up with I I think that we have to redefine what the the win is in all of this and and you can look at that a number of ways if you redefine if if winning the game is finding peace then you look for the things that will create peace in your life whether it's single or in a relationship it kind of doesn't matter you if someone comes along and what they're doing robs you of your peace and it's and it's because not because of something you have to work on but it's because of their behaviors it's disrespectful they absolutely make it unclear as to whether they really like you or not or whether they're interested in moving things forward or progressing you you have a conversation with that person and you explain to them this is this is not making me feel good and because of that I I find myself wanting to give less and less energy to it and you start to back away I think the I think the you know that woman I really her what her her comments stopped me in in my tracks for a reason because she made a very compelling argument yeah but I also think she she made an overly simplistic argument because I think that doing having standards I don't it will absolutely push some people away but it having standards also is a magnet for people that you wouldn't attract without standards it actually does pull certain people towards you I mean my fiance Audrey she did things but I remember when I first I met her in London and when I first went back to LA I was not treating her seriously I was not progressing the relationship I went back to LA and uh you know I was still being single and I was not I didn't want a long-distance relationship and and but I still texted her and I still I think one day I sent her a message that said like I miss you or I'm thinking of you and in that moment she had a choice to make this person likes me that she would have felt and there probably also would have been at least a little excitement that this person that I like is reaching out to me now that excitement may have also been combined with frustration and resentment and anger that what the hell like I haven't heard from him in weeks and now I get this it's a cold thing together but some people take all of those feelings and they go I'm going to set them all to one side and just respond as if I'm fine yes because I don't I I don't even want to communicate to this person that they have any leverage over me emotionally but B I kind of want to see where this goes yeah and so I'm just gonna roll with it now that when someone does that it sends a very clear message to the person on the other side which is that my kind of my let's call it negligence of this relationship or dynamic whatever situationship goes unnoticed yes or at the very least it goes ignored you're willing to ignore it which which concretizes the behavior yes it does and she didn't do that she didn't play cool she also didn't uh just kind of respond to be flirtatious and well now that I've got one text from him I'm going to get him really attracted this time what she said was uh hey I hope you're well to be honest uh I haven't felt that close to you in a while and rightly or wrongly this message comes across like a bid for attention oh you know so everyone knows I consider Audrey a friend and I just went deeper into my friend love for her because that's good that's so good I can't I'm going to tell you my 57 year old self could not imagine having the confidence to say that that's amazing it's so I love that and she will tell you that there was a time when uh she didn't have that confidence and which by the way I think is really important that people understand you can change at any time in your life it doesn't matter you you've been a certain way your whole life you've already always had a certain pattern you can change I don't care what age you are what stage you are you can change at any point in your life and create a new reference point that leads to a new belief but you have to do something different to create a new reference point now she sent me that message and and there's a couple of important things to note about that message it wasn't in any way aggressive it wasn't passive aggressive either it was clear it she even said I hope you're well you know there was it was a it still had compassion hey I hope you're well I haven't felt that close to you in a while now that acknowledges that we haven't been close and then it said and rightly or wrongly the rightly or wrongly is really powerful phraseology because when you say rightly or wrongly you're also removing ego from the situation because she's not saying I'm accusing you of this she's saying I might be wrong I might have completely misread this situation but here's how it reads this comes across like a bid for attention now she she Shone a light on that elephant in the room yeah like that there was no elephant in the room after that it was like oh and I immediately I felt called out I realized oh I can't do this here this isn't and by the way what I was doing wasn't even a conscious thing what it is is I'm just trying to get mine yes she called it right I just wanted I just I'm feeling lonely and and I'm looking for something you know we're very quick to kind of you know demonize people in different ways but a lot of the time it's like just Everyone's an addict in some way everyone's got their thing right in that moment I'm like I need I need something I'm looking for something I'm there's something I'm not getting in my life that is making me reach out in that way but not in a way that's appropriate for the kind of investment she's looking for right now anyone out there hoping that that made me suddenly say you know what I want a relationship would be wrong and that's important to note because we're engaged now but I didn't suddenly have an about turn that day which is why a key thing is you are in love you are either playing the short game or you are playing the long game and real standards is about playing the long game it's I am willing to turn this thing away and not say and don't ever come back yeah yeah yeah yeah because that's ego that's ego yeah instead it's what you're offering is not what I'm buying there's a door that you can walk through that's open to you but you're never going to get through this wall that you're trying to get through here if you want to come over here and walk through this door that door's actually unlocked and that door is one where you actually invest it's consistent you make me feel safe but that's over here right now you're over here you're trying to barge through a wall and you're not going to get through that wall I'm going to hold on this point to elaborate on it a little bit more this distinction between the short game and the long game is a difficult one for survivors who by definition will be playing the short game it's what people with histories of betrayal and Trauma do short games leave us feeling safe in the moments and healing and growth are about giving ourselves permission to play the long game and it took time but what I quickly realized about her was oh this I'm I'm never going to be able to come back to her with this dynamic so when I do come back it's going to have to be with a different Dynamic and by the way someone may still try their luck three months down the line sure and you have to show then that that standard is not a tactic it is a standard right there's a difference there is a difference yeah right don't have tactics have standards a standard is not a tactic a tactic is I'm doing this so that you give me some short-term result I want yeah so tactic feels like a manipulation yeah long game this is who I am and it's not it doesn't even have to be it's who I am because I'm so amazing and I deserve this and I deserve that and no like that to me is still kind of just goes back to Ego in a way you know it's like we I think we get lost in that logic in a way when when that whole like um you know who would want me or I'm replaceable or that's kind of still ego yeah it is and I think the same is true of standards is that if I have those standards those standards are actually something that starts to sculpt my value this we think that we have to deserve it before we have standards but in a way the standards are a pole in the sand this right here this is a good point to dive a little deeper this languaging around what I deserve is tricky for many people who don't believe they deserve to be treated well and may actually believe everyone else deserves that just not them basically what I'm hearing from you is you're talking about egoless dating and dating as a whole person and you can only do that if you do the whole person work which is valuing yourself being authentic to yourself knowing what you stand for one thing you talked about earlier were values right I'm going to push back on that a little I actually think that for a lot of the folks who've gone through really toxic relationships the values aren't even as important as the behaviors like how is this person showing up you know the values are great and I think they're higher order guiding mechanisms But ultimately it's the how does this person respond to even the simplest inquiries in the house hey do you mind just emptying the dishwasher so I can you know so I can get the kitchen done but dishwasher like and how how many I mean that might seem farcical 100 times at that you know you're exhausted you're sick like everything becomes the dishwasher conversation and so it's the it's about the behaviors the behaviors to me are everything you know and I think that we get so lost in thoughts and feelings ultimately it's how a person shows up even a narcissistic relationships Matthew I'm I'm working on the book and that's one thing that's that's been really coming through my veins is where's Isis and narcissist aren't they this isn't a trait it comes down to how do they behave how is this person acting behaving what are they saying what are they doing because that's all we've got to work with that's all I got to work with as a shrink and that's all a person can really talk about because they're going to Gaslight you about everything else they're probably going to Gaslight you about the behavior too by the way but all of this the wholeer you become the more you can be that the more you can send that Audrey text the more you're able to say yet we this you know this was a bid for attention I when I think about sending that text wired the way I am I still can't imagine doing that I was helping a friend through a situation and I was in the and the friend was actually going to have standards in how she was texting or emailing or something like that someone and I felt a physiological reaction in me I'm like sets that standard she may end up being alone and I was like oh we feel this in our bodies as though I was so that's how that this breaking out of this concept of Standards this goes beyond just even how you think this is in your body because I am thinking like I still hold to like I'm lucky that anyone wants lucky you're sitting here and across from me on this podcast I really make um if Matthew says no I get that you know I I TR and I wouldn't even have been surprised or mad at you because that's all I think I deserve so when my I see a friend trying to set a standard I actually get anxious so that's why I'm saying is that that that wholeness but I'm better it's definitely become better is that's that that concept of how do you get yourself to that place of healthy enough to date in terms of where to start I think that it is really important to get very clear on regardless of what we think we're worth you know when we talk about how do we make ourselves whole I actually think the first distinctions we need to make is what never works hmm what never works it never works if I betray myself and do things that I really don't want to do it never works and and I go try to please people what has it done for me my whole life it has made people use me it's made them take advantage of me even sometimes when they're good people it's made them take advantage because they just don't realize it has made me resentful It's Made Me bitter it's made me unhappy and it has not won people's respect this has never worked or this relate being in a relationship with a person like this has never worked it's never made me happy it's never brought me peace it's never brought me the safety I so seek if you start to Define what never works that alone can guide your behavior to somewhere new um you know if if for example as you said playing it cool is an over correction then what you can say is okay I am going to just again curiosity amazing word I'm going to get curious about different ways of Behaving that aren't playing it cool so the next time I get a little anxious or feeling like oh someone hasn't reached out in a week you can maybe I'm gonna try something new I'm going to become a social experimenter in my own life I'm going to say to someone hey um it made me sad that you didn't text me this week and I'm just gonna see where that goes because I may well be surprised by a new reality I may get a reaction I never expected and that creates a reference point so curiosity very very important even if you don't know what to do even if you can't pick up the phone to Romney or Matthew Hussey you can pick up you can say to yourself what represents some a new action from me than the one I always do yes yeah and and one of the most practical things we can do to give us a more stable base from which to have standards is to add more legs under the table strengthen the legs under the table and and ask yourself where have because I poured so much into another person what legs under the table disappeared for me yeah what what did I lose that is making me feel irrationally weak that is making me feel like I need this thing to breathe because if you can figure that out oh you know what I need to strengthen the family leg oh you know what I need to strengthen the the purpose leg doesn't have to be work you don't have to go and make a bunch of money watch what gives you a sense of purpose or what hobby can you lose yourself in and fall in love with again what friendships are gonna give you great meaning in your life because you strengthen them and these things aren't a magic pill they don't solve all of your self-worth issues but they give you legs under the table and when you have like have legs under the table you feel more uh willing to take risks and saying no to someone or saying I didn't like that behavior is represents a risk in our minds but I can take a risk if I I know Romney i i before I went on live TV I would get very nervous and I would call my brother right before going on live TV I didn't tell him what I was about to do in five minutes I just called him and I just asked him how he was and I just had a a conversation with him about him and life and and I finished that call and I went I have a brother I have a brother and I love him and and that's so much more than this five minute segment I'm about to do on this TV show and and all of a sudden it wasn't that it did the TV show didn't matter to me it didn't eradicate a hundred percent of my nerves but it gave me enough confidence to go and be dangerous it gave me enough confidence to be who I really was in that situation and you know how people talk about like you know like a I won't say the word but Fu money like that person has Fu money and what we're really referring to in that phase is they have enough money yeah that they can get a deal put in front of them that's not right where the terms aren't good and they can go no I don't need this what if we could build Fu confidence that's it yeah right yeah or a few legs correct really that's what I mean a few legs on the lifestyle level yeah yeah that's a great place to start yeah if you're saying practically how do I start to strengthen myself enough to where I can actually live by these standards that I almost don't quite feel ready for I I love that idea of the fu legs under the table because I think that I mean again what does that imply more than anything it implies stability there's Euro there's no knocking this table down because it's always it's just it's too it's it I think a lot of survivors people have really been through it feel like they're at best at best their table has two legs um and many feel like it's just the slab on the ground like there's just no table and so but most feel it's incredibly unstable and so that idea of the legs as as places of stability and they may not they may be things as I have a friend I like I have a volunt something I do that I volunteer on which is definitely something that in terms of surviving narcissistic relationships and then saying there are these things that matter to me like I said once I started feeling more autonomous professionally and loving like not not just showing up and getting a check but loving what I was doing it was almost like seven legs sprung because some of those other things I wasn't able to cultivate a couple of things I don't want us to forget to get into good one thing I wanted because this this leg's under the table thing those is taking me to a place where I think a lot of people feel this tremendous pressure which is time okay and by time I mean it's two things I mean there's there's the reality of time and there's even the biology of time this came up when I spoke at your retreat in Florida and uh one of the questions that stuck with me most was people were very I mean very engaged in the conversation about sort of toxic relationships and dating but one thing that came up was sort of having children that by the the the issue of biology and it is something that comes up over and over again I'm 35 I'm 37 I'm 38. I want to be a mother now listen I'll tell you this reproductive technology has changed I in in a very short period of time have started counseling multiple people on deciding they're going to do it alone they're there these are women and they're going to do it alone I now also know of men who've done it alone and they're not and and you know gay men have been doing it because they've had to get you know get a surrogate you know to to carry a child but these are men who are these are straight men saying I have been burned too many times but I want to be a father how do you help people navigate the space of dating the risks in dating getting into unhealthy relationships because they feel a pressure by Society by very biologically real time cultural religious pressure how do you guide people through that in my own life I I can relate to coming everything from a place of worst case scenario and uh and always going to that place always catastrophizing and you know a long time ago I recognized that one of the the great elephants in the room when it came to me helping women was that there was this ticking clock that applied by the way applies to men as well yes which is important to point out but but applies to women on a on a different level in the way that they they have an age by which biologically it's typical that they will not be able to now fulfill a dream that they have perhaps always had or always been told to have of having children biologically themselves and and if you're not talking about that then you're not you're not really covering dating no in my opinion because it's all very well to say have standards and do this and do that and say no to this but if you're never mentioning one of the key things that is behind that rush for people and one of the key things perhaps the key thing that is robbing people of their leverage and their power personally then then you really aren't understanding what's going on and I once I realized this I didn't know whether to talk about it or not in truth because I was knew it would be a Minefield for me as a man and I knew that there would be a kind of and perhaps rightly so a sense of you don't fully understand or you can never understand but at a certain point I stopped caring whether people criticized me for talking about it because I realized if I can at least start the conversation then people are going to have the conversation and what I deal with in droves is people who get to a point in their life where not having had the conversation not just with someone else with themselves has deeply deeply affected their life yeah absolutely and they are now grieving because they never had the conversation correct so I'm now less worried about being clumsy and more worried about having the conversation and I will say this to to not perhaps to reinforce your militant point I find myself addressing this almost from the same place of of strategy and control but from the point of actually assessing honestly what are my options let me stop for a moment let me stop running let me stop racing to every date let me stop trying to make this relationship move really fast because I think it has to happen it has to happen with this person if it doesn't oh my God what am I going to do let me stop for a moment and have a hard conversation with myself what is it I want okay maybe plan a is I meet someone amazing and we have children of our own we're both fertile we can both have that and we do that that may be plan A but you better fall in love with Plan B fall in love with Plan B even while plan a is still a possibility what's if you have to it starts with saying what is Plan B what is Plan B if this doesn't happen what's Plan B and it might be okay well if I don't meet someone by this age I'm gonna do it myself I'm gonna decide that now because the moment I've truly decided that and fallen in love with it that's a step further I grant you but if I can actually live there for a moment even before it has to be a reality and I can go can I can I love that you know what I think I can and by the way if I can't love it that's also a form of closure if I've realized that I don't want that that's okay no judgment but when you make your piece with that you know what I want to do this as a traditional unit or not at all that's closure but if you know oh I will do this by myself if it doesn't happen that's closure and I can even love that and by the way go find people who have done that and love it who have done that and it's the greatest gift they gave themselves who have done that and by the way is plan C adoption is go go run the plans and at any time if you're willing to make Plan B the new plan A and I really believe in life the key to happiness is not just is not going deferring to plan B but it's making Plan B so beautiful yeah that it is plan a now that that go oh my God I'm so glad plan a didn't happen to me that's happiness in life is when you can pivot in that way and and whether it's by and I did a whole podcast episode with two uh experts on freezing your eggs and it was an amazing episode and we got all the detail on it and the real process of what people have to go through when they do that and and you can hear for yourself that might buy me some time it might at least be a pressure valve it's super expensive many people can't do it can't afford to do it don't want to take the time off work but if I want to do that that may be another pressure valve but let me actually assess this and it re most of us we not only are unwilling to have hard conversations with other people but we are unwilling to have hard conversations with ourselves when we have that hard conversation with ourselves things change for people there is a different power to them and now by the way if I've decided you know what I want I don't want to I actually do not want to Casual day I don't want connection more than I want an actual family so the next time someone comes into my life and they like me and it feels fun and exciting I'm actually not assessing it just through that lens anymore I'm assessing it through the lens of is this a Time waster and if I if this person is kind of being like I hear from them one month and not the next this is not someone who's consciously looking for a relationship so I'm gonna back off and if you ask me why I'm backing off I'm not going to be aggressive I'm going to say I to be honest with you I wanna I I know that what I have to offer is super valuable and super precious and when I give it to someone they're going to be super lucky and I want to give it to someone who I feel is actually investing on the level I'm willing to invest and I don't feel like you're in that space now that's that can make someone come closer be closer to you or it can drive someone away either way you will find the right person faster if you say the no to the wrong person quicker but you can only say no to the wrong people quicker if you've defined wrong people right right that's right right person isn't person I have a connection with no right person is person who's on the same path as me who I have a connection with and if you've actually defined that because you've already had the hard conversation with yourself about what's most important right now you know what to say no to I think there are people everywhere right now who haven't actually figured out what it is they're saying no to and so anything that's exciting that comes along okay you have my time and my energy and my attention and that you don't get that time back I think that this that the falling in love with the plan B not only has implications for how people find love meet people but it's also how they get out of relationships because Plan B on the back end of a relationship is potentially uh having to date again someday or being alone or living alone for the first time in 20 30 40 years for some people right and so the falling in love with that plan B too is it's a whole different game because the front end of that hasn't been constructed in their lives and and it was that work of falling in love with the plan B to me has a lot of power for survivors because that falling in love with the plan B could also be how you take yourself back after you've been hurt and allow yourself to reconstruct the standard not to meet someone else but to actually make a new life it's not just about me meeting and falling in love it's about loving life loving your life and to me that that's still love it's not just love of the other because if you do love your life it's going to come friends future partner anything like that and a lot of that is intentionality it's teaching people to look for those moments to love and and again holidays are primed for that and the clients I was working with I said let's talk about about what Christmas was like without him and they're like oh actually I didn't even think about it was really fun this year like we didn't clean up the wrapping paper I was like how was that it was so fun like we were just the dogs were playing in it they didn't notice those things and then that intentionality really helps people realize that so I think that that there's a power to what you're saying again on both sides of this sandwich you know it's the um yeah what you just said is profoundly important I think we're in uh three relationships whether we like it or not we're in relationship with other people even if you're not in a romantic relationship you are in a relationship with other people in life you're in a relationship with yourself and you're in a relationship with life and you have to start seeing those things as real relationships right over Christmas you know over the holidays I I on Christmas day you know everyone puts out Merry Christmas messages to everyone and and this Christmas I thought to myself you know what people don't necessarily say is who's having a complicated Christmas and when you're having a complicated Christmas and and it could be any day of the year but you feel it at a time when you there's a blueprint for how it's supposed to look yes that's right and life is like that you uh you think that you can't be happy because of the circumstances and and I am a big believer that there's a shift that we can make there are times in life where life doesn't seem to be bringing us Magic and and I I truly believe that we've found our power again when we decide to make the pivot from being a seeker of magic to being an author of magic if we can be on a tough day like that and go where I I can lead I can lead maybe I was protecting my family for the last 20 years and that family just blew up and that was not the life I wanted well okay now we have a different set of circumstances but the game is how can you be the author of magic in those circumstances and when you start thinking like that I really believe life changes and you all your power comes back to you even in situations where you think you've lost it I work with people on how to navigate really toxic relationships it's it's grotesque guidance right you have to change your expectations like if you're going to stay in this you're gonna have to disengage they're not interested in you they're not going to pay attention to they don't want to see all of you so that means we're going to teach you that this is who they are you're not going to be a surprise when they come in and they do the same thing and it means you're also going to cultivate other spaces in your life but what happens when the expectations get ratcheted to reality it actually creates because all of human misery to me is the gap between what we want and the what really is the bigger that Gap the greater the misery the more you can narrow some of that and it may be that okay I'm not getting what I that this is what I'm getting and this is how I can narrow that Gap I may not be unhappy in this relationship then a person thinks does that mean I have to live in Lowered Expectations and perpetuity not at all now is to say if these are some of my expectations I'm going to take these to other places in life and that's and and it none of this is easy I think that if um if I've learned one thing through our conversation is that none of this is there is no I think we want sort of like the five tips five tips to find the guy of my dreams or the gal of Dreams or my person of my dreams there are no five tips this is work this is working on yourself this is making yourself accountable to you this is about giving yourself permission to individuate to be autonomous to honor yourself in any way you Ken this is about building yourself out first before you you put yourself in those situations and then by building yourself out you can hold those standards this is a process there is no pithy advice there is no Tick Tock video that in a minute and a half is going to tell you how to find sustaining true love but the reassuring thing is that there are more ways for you to be happy than the old you could ever have conceived of I love that Matthew I want people to be able to find you so can you tell us how can people find you and your wisdom and so how can people find that magic how can people find Matthew Hussey well I don't need to tell you that means so much coming from you so thank you Instagram the Matthew Hussey is a good place to just keep up with me if you just want to dip your toe in the water and if you want a deeper Journey with me the thing that I have coming up that is genuinely um transformative in the sense that it truly begins A New Path for you the virtual Retreat that I have is something you can do from anywhere in the world you don't have to fly anywhere you can do it from home Romney you've kindly come to be a guest speaker on that a couple of times and it's the deepest work I do with people so if you want to go through that process with me mhvirtualretreat.com is the link great we'll have all of that in the notes and Matthew has books but I have spoken at his Retreats and I have to say having met your audience and everything it's it is so engaged people are so present it it it's a it's you have a tremendous community and and and I've talked firsthand people in my life who didn't know we were connected I said wait a minute you're on his and these are people who have said you know Matthew has changed my life and I'm so glad to hear that someone I'm friends with that I care about has now connected with him so you're making real change in the life of people I love dearly and who have some of them have ended up and beautiful love stories and some of them I just found ended up in beautiful places so thank you on their behalf and um and again thank you for this conversation I think it really has I I love this the energy it brings to this is that that I think it gives hope to survivors I think a lot of us believe that we lost our chance to have our love story when we went through a toxic relationship or relationships and that it's a reminder that having been through these relationships not only doesn't steal your love story it's actually going to be a lot richer than you think so there's hope for us thanks again thanks for having me thank you here are my takeaways from my conversation with Matthew first stop trying to be a red flag detector or a narcissism detective finding healthy love is more complicated than that when you focus all of your energy on collecting red flags you may miss the opportunity to be present slow down and pay attention to how you feel rather than focusing on their toxic quirks this relates to a key element of maintaining a healthy relationship which is discernment so it's all about pacing Matthew talks a lot about standards and starting from a point of having what you want for a relationship in mind but a major issue for survivors of narcissistic relationships is that these standards are not easy to establish or even what a healthy relationship looks like getting into a healthy relationship isn't about the aha moment of figuring out that another person's behavior is narcissistic but rather learning and living into what constitutes acceptable behavior and a healthy relationship for this next takeaway be open this may be half of the challenge not just in life but also in relationships Matthew talks about curiosity and openness that things can be different this approach can actually be really useful for survivors of narcissistic relationships and for people who keep finding themselves in unhealthy relationships [Music] curiosity is a bit of a superpower the willingness to consider doing things differently merely asks us to just consider that there are other ways out there as Matthew suggests once we recognize that what we are doing is making us miserable a key to healing and moving forward is to also recognize that there may be a better option and this relates to his guidance this idea of falling in love with your plan B being open to a plan B is also a stretch for survivors but giving yourself permission to even consider one and then allow yourself to love it can give survivors their power back in our next takeaway there are standards and there are tactics this is an important distinction that Matthew makes because so much of the content out there on dating and relationships focuses on tactics well don't respond to a text right away or wait for them to contact you that kind of thing standards represent deeper work and for people who may have survived past toxic relationships are not easy work it means recognition of what is acceptable and making your choices accordingly even if it feels uncomfortable in this next takeaway one thing that really struck me about this conversation and which is so important Matthew emphasizes this idea that it is okay to be unhappy without a label and this point is so important in essence he is saying let's stop making this about he is a narcissist and rather about this doesn't feel good or I'm not enjoying this or merely that I'm not happy in this instead of trying to validate an uncomfortable relationship by calling someone out as narcissistic it may be more useful to Simply acknowledge and give yourself permission to note that you aren't happy and then proceed from there and for our final takeaway maybe the real work of dating is getting legs under the table which is the idea of creating stability by having Lives full of varied things that matter to us and strengthen us meaning purpose people and activities that matter social support more legs mean more stability especially when we are trying to navigate dating and relationships I like Matthew's metaphor and can see how the work of healing from narcissistic abuse and moving forward into new relationships of any kind can actually be the psychological carpentry of building those legs under our table creating whole full lives and identities

Channel: Navigating Narcissism

Views: 196,633

Keywords: Navigating Narcissism, Navigating Narcissism Podcast, Dr. Ramani Podcast Navigating Narcissism, Navigating Narcissism Dr. Ramani, Navigating Narcissism Podcast Dr. Ramani, Dr. Ramani Podcast, narcissistic personality disorder, podcast interview, Matthew Hussey, dating advice, dating red flags, narcissist, toxic relationships, narcissistic relationship, navigating narcissism, podcast, vodcast, Dr. Ramani, psychologist, gaslighting, NPD, therapy, relationships, red table talk

Id: fHn714qAduM

Length: 85min 41sec (5141 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 16 2023