- If you're a functioning
high-level alcoholic practicing medicine, don't stop drinking. Dr. Mike says keep practicing
and just keep drinking. - Not my words. - [Narrator] In the
"Law & Order" universe, the episodes are judged by two separate yet equally important influencers, a doctor influencer and
a lawyer influencer. These are their opinions. (light music) - That's right. You saw a part
one on Dr. Mike's channel. But now it's time to talk
about the legal repercussions of the very first
episode of "Law & Order". - In the beginning of this episode, there's a doctor who gave a medication that potentially ended someone's life. - Your daughter is dead. - And he likely gave that medication under the influence of alcohol. So it's time to prosecute. - Spoiler alert. Don't practice medicine while under the influence of alcohol. (reel spinning) - Failing to perceive a
substantial and unjustified risk that might cause a Zan Morton's death criminally negligent homicide, consciously disregarding that
substantial unjustified risk, manslaughter two. - That is bang on.
- Why? - He just listed off the
different mental states required for the two different crimes. Failing to apprehend a
substantial unjustifiable risk, knowing that there is a substantial risk and consciously disregarding it. Dang, Ben Stone absolutely nailed it. (Dr. Mike laughing) - There'll be no prosecution
if you testify against Oster. - And no job. - So he actually did
engage in a conspiracy- - Yes.
- With the- - Intent to cover up.
- Yeah. With the intent to cover up. He could be prosecuted. Unlike the other doctors
who were probably complicit. - Two or three times each month, he calls, he says he's coming. He's always late because he's drunk. - Oh, wow. - You know what they call those rounds? - Party rounds?
- Liver rounds. Everyone knew. - Why liver rounds? Alcohol is metabolized by the liver? Yeah, - I guess? They're doctors. They have a terrible sense of humor. - Yeah, true fair. - Suzanne Morton did have pneumonia - And Dr. Oster did tell you to lie. (ambulance sirens blaring) - I have flexible hours in my training. - What the crap. - Do you know how important that is when you're raising a child? - That's non-responsive, Doctor. - Oster didn't act drunk. - Yeah. Okay, so I guess
she covered up the crime. - Is everyone covering for him 'cause he has something hanging over everyone's heads in this department? - I mean, as they said,
this doctor is a combination of Albert Schweitzer and
Albert Einstein. So... - This is amazing. - He never acted drunk.
- But he was drunk, wasn't he? And he was always drunk on liver rounds. - Giving it two medications that have a bad interaction happens as mistakes all the time
in our healthcare system. So the question is, how
does being drunk impact your ability to make a mistake? If it drastically raises the
chance of you making a mistake and then someone suffers,
does that become the crime? And you've proved it? - Is there any colorable reason
why someone would prescribe this kind of medication
under these circumstances? - No. No one gets opioids for
body aches when they're sick. But that's the only medicine
he gave that was problematic because the other medicine
she was already taking for her mental health. If he knew that, that's the crime. But if the resident said,
"Hey doctor, she's on it" and he ignored him 'cause he's drunk. - That really goes to
criminal recklessness. Knowing and seeing the unjustifiable risk, ignoring it, and moving forward anyway. - [Dr. Mike] Sure. - And he did tell you to lie, didn't he? - Am I gonna lose my license? - This is really, really bad practice by the district attorneys here. They're interviewing a witness alone. If they ever want to contradict
what this witness is saying, they would have to call
themselves to the stand. Let's say this doctor witness flips and she's like, no, no.
He was totally sober. - Yeah.
- It's like, well, didn't you tell me that
he was totally drunk? She'll be like, no, I never said that. You gotta have a police officer
in the room that says, yeah, I heard her confess to the crime. - Yeah. They said there's
a lot of shoe leather. Stivik versus Oster in Rae
the death of Angela Stivik, age 11. - Why is it that if it
was drinking and driving and then they harmed
someone it's a closed case, but a doctor doing it, it's not? - Because there are specific laws that deal with drinking and driving because it's so problematic. - So there is no law that says you can't practice while drunk? - Probably not. It would
be a more generalized rule like reckless homicide.
- Wow. You said if you're educated
on the risks of drinking while under the influence and then you do it again after that, you're knowledgeable and
they can prove that now. So they add more charges. Can't you then say, because this is an expert of
the human body, this doctor, that they should know that drinking and practicing medicine is even
worse than a regular person? - 100% and that is a huge problem with the defense that they're creating. They're saying like, this
is the greatest doctor that's ever lived.
- Yeah. - Well then he should really know. - Yeah.
- It's bad to practice while intoxicated. A better strategy would be,
this guy's a terrible doctor. - [Dr. Mike] Yeah.
- It's not 'cause he's drunk, it's 'cause he's a terrible doctor. - Yeah. - You objected to the
administration of meperidine. - I suggested acetaminophen,
but Dr. Oster grew angry. He said if I didn't like the
way the hospital was being run that I should continue
my training elsewhere. - That doctor would make a
terrible, terrible witness. - Why?
- Because he lied to the police and tried
to cover up the mistake. (Dr. Mike laughing)
- Yeah. - I would destroy that guy on cross fair. - Do you know how long Dr.
Oster has been practicing medicine, Dr. Risa? - Objection relevance. Speculation. - I don't know, 25 years maybe. - And do you know where
he went to medical school? - He's really asking a bunch
of questions from this witness that this witness shouldn't
really know the answer to. - [Dr. Mike] Yeah, exactly.
- You don't have to ask every doctor that worked with him. (Dr. Mike chuckling)
- Exactly. - Do you know my client went to Harvard? - Yeah. - [Dr. Risa] Harvard, I believe. - That's correct. How long have you been a doctor? - Two years, sir.
- I see. And where did you go to medical school? At the University of Peshawar. Thank you. - That is one of the least
effective cross-examinations- - Yeah. What does that give you? - I've ever seen. Against-
- They're not challenging whether or not you gave
the right medicine. - [Legal Eagle] Insane.
- They're challenging the fact that you were drunk while
practicing medicine. - Dr. Mills, were you
present on March 15th when Suzanne Morton was admitted? - [Dr. Mills] Yes. - And what was your
reaction when Dr. Oster prepared to inject Suzanne
Morton with meperidine? - I said her chart showed
she was taking phenelzine. meperidine was contraindicated. - There's a lot here
that the defense attorney could absolutely go after. Number one, she lied and covered it up. And in a way that
probably could be twisted to make it seem like
this was a possible okay thing to prescribe and the jury
isn't gonna necessarily know that this is a horrible narcotic. - Exactly. Yeah. - Isn't it true that you had to run a second toxicological screen
to even find meperidine and phenelzine in Suzanne Morton's body? - That's because both drugs
are unusual unto themselves. - Thank you, doctor.
- And would not be found unless specifically requested. - Thank you, doctor! - Which they were! - There are much better strategies for getting a witness to stop their answer and none of them are just
saying, "Thank you!". - Thank you, doctor.
And thank you, doctor! - Mainly You'd want to talk to the judge and say, "Your honor, I object. This is non-responsive. I
asked a yes or no question." You're training the
witness to stop speaking after they've given you
the answer that you want. - The fact that they
had to run a second test has nothing to do with the situation. - Yeah. - The fact that they
had to run a second test was because the first test
didn't include those medications. - [Legal Eagle] Right. - So my answer to that would be like, no, I didn't have to run a second test. I had to run the first
test for those medications. - [Legal Eagle] Yeah. - Isn't it possible that
pneumonia killed Suzanne Morton? - Oh no.
- Oh. - It's possible that death
rays from Mars killed her. - What?! - That's actually non-responsive. Yeah. I mean, so some people do ask
similar questions in real life and you get answers like that. But more likely what's gonna
happen is immediately the first redirect question by the
district attorney is, so you said it was possible. - [Dr Mike] How likely?
- How likely is that? You're teeing up the district's attorney to absolutely crush you. - Dr. Oster must have spoken to you during the course of the party. - Every five minutes. Fill her up. - Was his speech slurred?
- Not so I remember. - Did he seem drunk in any way? - I never saw anyone
hold his liquor better. - Oh. Oh. Oh, that's a little bit of a problem. - Yeah, this guy was drinking like a fish. But boy, he was- - Metabolizing it quite well. - I guess. - During our years of research
into alcoholism, Dr. Walters, have you ever observed people
who appear to be sober, but are in fact drunk? - It happens all the time. - It could happen to Dr. Oster? - Objection. It could
happen to my Aunt Minnie, but it doesn't.
(audience laughing) - Oh my God. That is not
how you make an objection. - That made me giggle
though. That was pretty good. I don't know. He looks very likable here. - Yikes. I mean, if you're
gonna do nonsense like that to pander to the jury
you gotta say, you know, objection, relevance. You have to have some
grounds for the objection. You can't just say- - Objection. My Aunt Minnie. - My Aunt Minnie.
(Dr. Mike laughing) Objection Aunt Minnie. - I'll rephrase the question. If a 55 year-old man weighing 185 pounds, having consumed 10 shots
of bourbon in two hours appears to be stone-cold sober, does that mean he is in fact in full possession of his faculties? - No. - Which is what we just talked about. - I, yeah, I'm glad that we
finally have an expert here because you are allowed to pose
hypotheticals to an expert. - Now if that same 55 year-old man weighing a 185 pounds has several drinks and he appears to be quite sober and makes a mistake, would that mistake necessarily
be caused by his drinking or might he have made that mistake anyway? - Obviously that's impossible to say. You'd have to be that
55 year-old man to know. - Well, I mean even that's
a really terrible way of putting it. Even that 55 year-old man
wouldn't necessarily know one way or the other. You know? - I mean, you would have to
be in their mind to know. - Where did you spend the week
of June 10th, Mr. Hoffman? - In Maine fishing. - Oh, was Edward Oster with you? - No. - Did he ask you to tell people that he had been with you on that trip? - Yes.
- I just find it amazing that this guy asked like a
dozen people to lie for him. - [Dr. Mike] Yeah.
- And they all said, yeah, absolutely. You know, like yeah,
we know that girl died- - [Dr. Mike] Yeah.
- In the ER just a little while ago. We're totally cool with
covering up all your crimes. - Yeah. - And why was that Mr. Hoffman? - He didn't want anyone
to know where he was. He checked himself into a clinic. - Ah. - [Mr. Hoffman] The Colson Clinic. - Okay. He knows he has a drinking problem and he doesn't want anyone else to know he has a drinking problem. That is consciousness of guilt and consciousness of a substantial risk. - Yeah. That's super
bad news for the doctor. - What kind of clinic
is the Colson Clinic? Mr. Hoffman? Rehab, I assume. - It's a substance abuse clinic. - There you go.
- Thank you. How long does your treatment program last? - 28 days. - How long did Dr. Oster stay? - Six days. He left against their advice. - Would you say that Dr. Oster knew he was an alcoholic by the time he left? - Oh, he would never have
come in the first place if he hadn't. - I have no further questions.
- Are you positive? - Now, did Dr. Oster say to
you, "I am an alcoholic?" - Oh.
- Good question. - No.
- Oh. - In fact, didn't Dr. Oster say to you, "I am not an alcoholic." - You must have-
- Yes or no, Dr. Rasmussen? Please. Did he say, "I am not an alcoholic?" - Yes. - The redirect is gonna be crushing. First of all, have other
alcoholics come to you and said they were not an alcoholic? - Yeah.
- Yeah. In fact, the first step is admitting
you're an alcoholic because alcoholics don't like to admit that they're alcoholics. - Did Dr. Oster discuss
his drinking with you? - Anything that transpired
between Dr. Oster and myself is protected by patient-doctor privilege. - But as well as patient
and doctor, your friends? - We are. - Where did you have lunch
with him on June 7th? In your office? - No, at the Four Seasons. - Did you conduct your
physical examination of Dr. Oster there? - No. I told him that if he
didn't stop drinking, he'd be dead in five years. - How do they know he said that? - That's just-
(Dr. Mike laughing) That's just Dick Wolf writing. - The defense calls Dr. Edward Oster. - Oh. He's dropping his amendment. What is the amendment? - The The Fifth Amendment.
- The Fifth Amendment. - The tragic death of a
six-year-old led to sight for one child and a new heart for another. Oh, the boy who got the hardest
is now the star shortstop for the little league baseball team. - And finally, how many boys- - Was he testifying how
good of a doctor he is? - No, he's testifying that
because this girl died, other patients got organs. - What the hell does that
have to do with anything? - Hold on. I like, I really like the
look that that guy in the jury gave just like, oh boy. - Oh yeah.
(Dr. Mike laughing) - Mr. Stone. Yeah, it was almost up. Could you hold your
cross-examination until after lunch? - Of course, your Honor. - Oh my. Oh wow. - That's bad? That feels bad.
- No, no. - They get the entire lunch time to prepare their cross-examination. - Oh. - If you get that time,
you are taking that time. - And medically speaking,
judges who recently ate will give lighter
sentences if you're tried just after lunch. - [Legal Eagle] Yeah, that is true. - That money?
(Legal Eagle laughing) - Drinking during lunch.
- Have you had a drink today? - Objection, your honor. Relevancy. - What? That's, you're allowed, right? - Yeah. That would be
absolutely admissible. - Yeah. - Your state of mind and your
ability to practice medicine while being intoxicated. 100% relevant. Like oh boy. - Yes.
- More than one? - Yes.
- Yes. - How many more than one? - So I lost count at 49. - I mean, any answer that he gives is bad. He could lie and say the incorrect number, in which case it's like, oh wow. He can't even remember how many he had. Or he could be honest and can say, I had X number. This is a potentially very
dangerous cross-examination because we've now established that he's been drinking
a lot during lunch. But if he's able to have
all of his mental faculties, then you've kind of shown that you weren't criminally reckless. - [Dr. Mike] Oh. - I'm not sure. - I mean, that's a bad testimony. - Do you recall, was it
between two and five drinks? - I don't recall. - Doctor, is it not a fact that you had six bourbons on the rocks at Chance's Pub not 45 minutes ago? - Objection, your Honor! - [Judge] I'll allow it.
- On what grounds? - Move on Mr. Stone. (Legal Eagle laughing)
- Oh my god. We established- - Move on?
- Yeah, no. This is, first of all I'll
allow it and let's move on are two contradictory
statements by the judge. If I was the district attorney here, I really would've milked
these questions for more because he really went
for the ultimate question. But he could have said, is
it possible that you had as many as six bourbons, you know? Out of everything, his
inability to remember how many drinks he had
really goes, I think, to the mental faculties in
being able to practice medicine. - Would you step into the well, Dr. Oster? - Objection, your Honor. There's no need for Dr. Oster to stand. - Sidebar, please.
- Objection. There's no need. - Wait, is he gonna do a sobriety test? - Yeah. - What's going on Mr. Stone? - Does Dr. Oster look
drunk to you your Honor? - What the hell is that supposed to mean? - I must be allowed to show
Dr. Oster is in the courtroom and he's drunk. - Your Honor, I
strenuously object to this. - Oh, he's strenuously objecting. - Is that, are there levels to objections? Is strenuous the highest level? - Yeah. That's not a thing. That is, I mean, and a few years later, Aaron Sorkin would use that. I strenuously object in a few good men. - Your Honor, the defense
strenuously objects and requests an 802 conference so that his Honor might
have an opportunity to hear discussion.
- Oh wow. Strenuously objected, I should
take some time to reconsider. - Including the judge. - And they would spend
like the next 10 minutes making fun of Demi Moore for saying, "I strenuously objected."
(Dr. Mike laughing) It's so, oh my God. - Proceed, Mr. Stone. - Finally the judge got it. - Well doctor.
- And the defense attorney. - And then the guy gets up. - The defense attorney
made zero objections, valid objections. - This is the New York City
Police Department manual. I'm gonna administer a standard test. - You can't say. - To determine whether a person is operating a motor vehicle.
- He can't say that, he's testifying. He's like, he's explaining
what he has in his hand. - Can he say that to the
person, to the witness? - Not, I mean, do you recognize this? This is the... I mean I guess you could ask if he recognized this. - Yeah. - But there's no reason he would. What you do is you make
him perform the test. Hold the book, then you call like a- - [Dr. Mike] Police officer. - A police officer.
- [Dr. Mike] Got it. Okay. - Explain what this book is. - Yeah, explain what I just did. - Yeah. And you were in
court when I admitted or I administered this test, did I administer this test correctly? Did this guy fail this test?
- [Dr. Mike] Yeah. - That's how you would do it. - Under the influence.
- This is an outrage. - There you go.
- Mr. Stone's instructs you, Doctor.
- Take the Fifth, buddy. - Now something like
this actually did happen. - [Dr. Mike] No way.
- In court. Not this in particular, but in a very famous
case, the OJ Simpson case. - With the glove?
- With the glove. He was asked to wear the glove. I think he probably could
have taken the Fifth and refused to do it. There's speculation that once
he knew he was gonna be doing that, he basically did like
hand curls for like two weeks. I mean the craziest thing is that he was wearing a latex glove so as not to contaminate
the leather glove. And so between him probably
bulking up his hand, wearing a latex glove-
- What? - I didn't know any of this. Is this known? - Well, yeah, it happened on TV. - He's free right now!
- Yeah. - Raise your arm to the
level of your shoulder. Close your eyes and point to your nose with your index finger. (audience gasping)
(suspenseful music) - He didn't even try to correct it. He didn't even go... - Nailed it. - There's something to be said
about someone who is drinking that much every day. If they were to stop, there's a risk of developing something known
as DTs, delirium tremens, where they can actually have seizures, violent actual tremors,
psychiatric breaks, because they're not consuming alcohol as part of their withdrawal. Withdrawal from alcohol is
one of the worst withdrawals, maybe on the same level as opioids. So those are the two most
withdrawal prone medications. - Yeah. So you heard it here. If you're a functioning
high-level alcoholic practicing medicine, don't stop drinking. Dr. Mike says keep practicing
and just keep drinking. Not my words. Coming
from the lawyer himself. - It's your testimony. You're the one that's under oath. All right, now it's time for the grading. (whimsical music) Dr. Mike, what kind of medical
grade does this show get? - Medical ethically,
I would give this an F 'cause you shouldn't practice
medicine under the influence. But medical accuracy, I'd given it a B-. Had the chest compressions
been a little bit better, I would've given it a higher grade. So not bad. - Similarly, legally
speaking, a lot of accuracy. They got the mental states of
different kinds of homicides right, incredible. There were some courtroom shenanigans, but I gotta say B+, great
episode of "Law & Order". So if you haven't seen it, go see part one on Dr. Mike's channel. And until next time,
we'll see you in court. - And I'll stay or you
stay happy and healthy. - Out of court.
- Out of court. - Not in court.
- Out of court. Now, Dr. Mike and I had a
ton of fun shooting this. We actually spent hours watching
and riffing on each other. And his dog Bear made many
unscheduled appearances, but not all that footage could
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