Ramesh Balsekar - What Happens After Self-Realization?

when questions were being asked yesterday evening it struck me that the real interest which keeps on coming up again and again is what happens after enlightenment there's that interest which keeps on bugging you but the main thing is the question is based on what happened to you after self-realization or in life so there really nothing that can happen to a you and yet it happens to you it cannot happen to you to a you the ego because the basis of the Enlightenment or self-realization is the annihilation of the ego and yet there is a you which has to be there for the body-mind organism to function ramana maharshi lived for sixty years after his self-realization so who lived for sixty years that's a valid question and has to be answered who lived after sixty years in the same way if somebody during those 60 years if somebody called ramana maharshi by name whatever it is Swami or Bhagwan or Ramana or whatever he must have responded turned to him and said what can I do for you so the response to the name being called obviously means identification with a name and form so the identification with an individual name and form separate from the others separate from the others continues individual Yanni to live the separate identification with a separate body mind organism and the name must continue and but there's a very big difference between the identification with a name and form which continues after the ego is destroyed after the sense of personal doership been destroyed so what is destroyed after self-realization or enlightenment now hi I'm sorry I didn't give you time did you have to make an announcement I was ok then I shall continue so this identification with a name and form which continues is totally different from that which has been annihilated that is clear so what has been annihilated what have been annihilated is the sense of personal doors that does not mean annihilation of the identification with a name and form that is not usually understood so what is expected is that the individual is gone then it's like so it's like a like a vegetable so it nanny or where understanding has happened would be like a vegetable you go and strike him and he strikes you back you see what kind of an uneasy what kind of enlightenment is it I hit him and he hit me back so the identification with the name and form which continues has been beautifully described by Ramana Maharshi like he says that identification which continues I use the word identity with the name and form ramana maharshi with his limited knowledge of English language use the word in Tamil he said ego now that also people have to understand when they read they had to go behind the walls so the words of Ramana Maharshi are even in the case of Adnani the ego sometimes arises dólares words so people must have said what does it mean then so he's asked me to explain the ego that arises with Ramana Maharshi says he is described as the remnant like the remnant of a burnt rope the remnants of a burnt Rope the Rope is burn the rope the form of the rope remains but you can't tie up anybody with that rope that's how he describes it beautifully so the identification with the name and form continues so before I continue with this let me read a passage from the book who cares my daughter who got a copy of this called up she has a very good understanding so she called up and said daddy I don't understand this have you got a book have you got a copy I said yes he said last paragraph on page 20 I'll read it out she said I don't understand it let me read it out when faith in the will of God is lost even that would be God's will kindness and compassion come in when kindness and compassion are lost there arise moral do's and don'ts when morality is lost religious dogmas come in religion being the husk and not the kernel of faith in God religious wars begin let me read it out again when faith in the will of God is lost even that would be God's will kindness and compassion come in when kindness and compassion are lost there arise moral do's and don'ts when morality is lost religious dogmas come in religion being the husk and not the kernel of faith in God religious wars began so she said she didn't understand it surely kindness and compassion is part of faith in the will of God that's the portion she she couldn't understand so my explanation was this the faith in the will of God is not an individual's faith in the will of God faith in the will of God truly means the surrender of the personal wealth the personal individual total faith in the will of God means surrender of the individual sense of doership to God when that is lost the individual comes in and says I must be kind and compassionate the individual who is lost in the total faith in the will of God when that is lost when the total faith in the will of God is not there the individual comes in with the necessity to be kind and compassionate and when kindness and compassion are lost moral values come in moral do's and dont's come in if kindness and compassion is there the question of moral do's and don'ts don't arise so when moral do's and don'ts arise there is a list of things to be done things not to be done with the promise implied promise if not Express that once you do that God will be on your side so they expect God to take sides when you follow certain moral lose and don't you will win over God to your side and when morality is lost and religion takes over religious dogmas come into the picture and read dogmas of one religion are not acceptable to another and that's a religious wars begin so this progression or regression is usually what he said in the secret they begin with the seeker and end with the destruction of the seeker this paragraph somehow which came out spontaneously starts with self-realization and ends with the beginning of the seeker so ends with self-realization that's so self-realization to me means total faith in the veil of God so what is yesterday the questions were asked and I did think that the mind intellect which conceives the questions needs and deserves a reasonably valid answer the question is implied what happened to you when self-realization happens or enlightenment at that is how it is construed that the person concerned the identification with a name and form is the person after enlightenment as happen so that identity personalized identification with a name and form the person is entitled to say what happened I cannot describe that is correct but the real question is what has happened to you after self-realization that is the one that is people are interested in what has happened to you after enlightenment if the basis of enlightenment is you being destroyed who is it that is now talking who is it that is now living his or her life and that question arises because of the misunderstanding between the ego that is annihilated which is the sense of personal doership and what continues there after a simple identification with a name and form some Zen master forget the name or maybe the Thomas I don't know he described self-realization or the effect of self-realization very simply so he must be a Dow master not Zen master he said everything becomes crystal clear no doubts remain that's very stopped everything becomes crystal clear no doubts remain to that I would add no ones remain no ones remain so how does life continue no ones remain because there is no individual entity wanting anything the wanting is personal doership so no one's living but otherwise with no ones remaining what does that identification with the name and form do in life the answer is the identification with the name and form the person the person continues to live his life exactly as he lived before the only difference being earlier the person thought he was living his or her life after self-realization the deepest possible confirmation is that life was being lived through me me being again the identification with the name and form and not in the sense of personal darshan and life will continue to be lived through me and when I say life will continue to be lived through me I mean life as before will be continue will continue to be lived through you and him and her in other words life that is being lived through any body mind organism will be merely witnessed including the body mind organs in which he calls himself so what happens then is that life as it happens events as they happen beads as they are done actions that are done are merely witnessed not as those of an individual door but as part of the total functioning of manifestation or God's will that is what is happening now when there is no real distinction made between anything which happens through another body mind organism or through this own body mind organism let me tell you an incident that happened with my earlier guru in Pune not Rajesh he had an ashram smaller ship web disciples whenever they could during their holidays or League could get together one Friday morning or Saturday I think it was Saturday I was there I happened to be there Saturday morning and the ashram closed by the ashram where a number of hutments where the poorest of the poor lived with the children and the children being children and Saturday was a holiday so there was noisy and they were playing on the streets where else could they play they were noisy and very playful and suddenly there was UN cry about somebody being hurt so a couple of people were sent from the ashram to find out what had happened and then they brought in an old man who used to be an irregular visitor to the ashram and he was hurt so what the story was he he he really was with a total understanding self-realization had happened but he was such a simple man and he was not concerned with the world recognizing him as a self-realized he lived a very he really didn't live his life he went wherever the boil God took him he he used to dress shabbily never cared for his appearance so that he was a prime target for the playful children so how it started was someone made fun of him and expected him to get angry but he didn't get angry he joined in the fun he loved himself which irritated the boy who made fun of him so he threw a stone at him and when someone in the children threw the stone others started throwing stones and he was injured so when the two people from the ashram went out they brought him in and a lot of grumbling I said this goes on all the time the police don't do anything somebody should do something about it and that kind of it and the old man was brought in the injuries were not not particularly bad just a wound here just a boom there so the two people in there they cleaned up the bones will get all old Listerine or whatever cleaned up the booms applied something and he was all right but while this grumbling was going on then the old man says what is all the grumbling about I don't understand he literally said I don't understand what has really happened he said some hands threw stones at me and injured me some other hands have cleaned up the wounds what's all the fuss about some hands threw stones at me and made some wounds and some other hands have cleaned up the wounds what is all the fuss about and it was not a statement made to impress anybody it came straight from the heart so that is what I mean when I say that witnessing happens about anything that happens to any body mind organism then because of the sense of lure ship not being there there is no distinction of my actions his actions her actions or your actions that is what happens so what else happens no once whatever happens is accepted what else happens please remember what I'm saying now from my own experience I'm not telling in somebody else's experience so my own experience is that what else happens there is no fear of life I mean when this this means there is no fear of life whatever happens is my destiny with no power on earth can stop it how this body is going to die in what form with one in what circumstances is all plan is all there so just like there is no fear of life there is no fear of death talking of death let me tell you what happened once early morning I used to play golf with fear the people there is a Golf Course close by close to my house not a full-fledged competitive god but it but good enough to go round in hour and a half two hours in the morning so we used to go quite early and once at a particular T for the golfer who are not golfers at T is a raised ground from which the first shot is hit for that particular hole we had just finished teeing off on the fifth thing I remember that the just as we were about to go out of the top 30 a huge kite cull to the eagle family much smaller of course but usual enormous span of wings that came right at us as if it is going to attack us but we were already off the tee and then this bird did a fantastic thing it came landed on the tee spread its wings raised its neck looked at the Sun the morning sun looked at the morning sun and laid its head down and died one of our golfers flippantly said cashing in your chips are you fella somehow it jarred on my nerves cashing in your chips are you philosophy that was one way of looking at a bird dying the way I looked at him to me it was simply one of the most beautiful things I'd ever seen a bird comes knowing that it is dying there is no panic there is no flutter of wings of going about comes quietly has decided on the place to die lands there looks at the Sun puts his head down and lays down its life to me it wasn't the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen no fear of death at all so what happens after enlightenment there is no clear of life there is no clear of living and there is no fear of dying that is one of the things that happened it happens has happened is happening in my case I repeat what happens in other cases I don't know now talking about dying there's another incident I would like to tell you that is about my brother-in-law my wife's sister's husband he lived in Pune he was a doctor extremely soft-hearted he was also a fellow disciple of my earlier guru he the the core of his being was bhakti devotion he loved to sing bhajans and extraordinarily soft out so when he became a doctor he decided to specialize in examination of blood and pathology pathology I'm sorry no he's not pathology he became a pathologist and he could have made plenty of money as a specialized pathologist but there again his softness came into the picture and he said no I don't want to make money because of people's illnesses so he took a job with the government as a government pathologist where there was a fixed salary reasonably good but nowhere near what he could have made as an independent practitioner so it was an extremely well-liked man always ready to oblige if anybody wanted someone to play on the table of health budgets where he was always available an extremely well-liked man in the area so one I think but well Thursday or Friday or maybe when he had a pain in the neck spreading to the shoulder he took the usual painkillers nothing happened and it got worse until there was his the pain descended to his chest then of course he called a friend of his who live close by he he brought his electrocardiogram machine and many put it on he could see that the heart attack was so violent and yet it was one of those painless ones there was no pain I mean the pain was similar which had come down from the from the pain in the neck but he could see on his on his cardiogram machine that the line was almost flat that means he was dying so he as soon as he came in and put the machine on he told his wife he'll have to go to hospital prepare prepare some clothes for him to be take so he himself was a doctor so he saw on the machine what was happening so he knew he was dying and he so he's my father what shall i what shall i put in lay in the bag she said we'll see later on he knew he was dying so from then on the remarkable thing is there was no panic no panic at all and the incredible thing was that he kept telling the doctor happening in his body so he says now there is numbness in the toes now the numbness is creeping up the numbness is in my lower legs now the numbness is creeping up it's in my legs until he came almost straight to the numbness is in the heart then he stopped talking and died with a smile on his face now posi self-realized who cares for the enlighten forecast he didn't he just lived his life knowing that it was not he who is living his life and all he could do as an individual was to be kind and compassionate so that was my two experiences of death as I know it another experience of death that I know not actual death the phenomenon of death my granddaughter was probably three years old she hadn't there was no death in the family or friends until then so there were there was some die someone died and it was talk of someone dying so she asked my son her father he says what is death so as a child of three some kind of an explanation could have been given which satisfied the child of three but no that was not the way my son was programmed he said the child must know and he started explaining in great detail what death was about my wife and I looked at each other that's not the way we would have done but the child was raised not ours so he explained it beautifully and the child was an extreme she is an extreme she always has been an extremely intelligent child now she heard the whole thing and finally she came out with her mom she yes Daddy I understand what you say but I'm not going to die but I'm not going to die deep down intuitively she knew she wasn't born and she was burned to death she didn't make the distinction about the object being born and the object built all she knew was she wasn't born she was not going to die his daddy I am NOT going to die and we just looked at his head so any questions you said there are no doubts remain and no ones remain no doubts remain and no ones remain that right if you have no want how can you you see no doubts remain the doubts are in the mind mind intellect the either who has doubts the egotistic mind element mind in intellect who has doubts mind intellect the ego has done but when the ego is dead the sense of a me as a doer is gone no more doubts remain the doubts is easier for me to understand yes the ones is more difficult the ones who has bones the individual has bones the individuals as a sense of it illusion he is the one who wants them if there is mere identification with the name and form wants are not there all the in the basic understanding is that whatever is needed either will be supplied or will not be supplied whether they needs are satisfied or not will depend on God's will and the destiny of this body mind organism so you the want is not if I want to buy [Music] computer or something this is not a want you describe something else oh yes but that is the bond will be there but the understanding is whether that want is to be such will be satisfied or not is not in your control the want is not a personal bond the bond becomes the need you see I would make a slight distinction between the need and the bond the need is for the body mind organism for the functioning of the body mind organism but I don't need a computer you don't need a computer so you don't need a computer but you need something else you need a bicycle I don't need a bicycle so no you have not only no warrants you have no not even any needs many many will envy you so so how's the distinction between wants and needs the needs are for the body mind organism to live food is a need food is system essential but butter bicycles not essential so therefore the bicycle may be essential for a job you have either you walk or you bicycle to your place place of work either you bicycle in 15 minutes or you walk for two hours for one and a half hours so a bicycle becomes a need so the bicycle becoming a need whether that need will be fulfilled or not he's also accepted as not so but that doesn't prevent you from doing whatever you think you should do that's why we go back to the the free will does the individual have free will of course the individual has free will to decide to do something so what is your decision you will go and ask a friend to lend you some money to buy the bicycle do it whether that decision will be rectified will the decision will turn into something that you want whether your friend will be able to lend you the money is not in your control but that does not prevent you from making a decision to go to your friend and ask for a loan and if it is God's will and the destiny of this body-mind organism the plan will grant you the loan you will buy a bicycle and repay the loan so luxury is not a need see now we are going to luxury a luxury if a person is born in luxury if luxury is his part of life way of life because understanding has happened he's not going to give up on his wealth he's not going to give him he wouldn't expect himself to give give up now in the bhagavad-gita you see many people if you ask them who have studied the bad veneto what is the core of the BOD Bonita promptly dance of renunciation many P students of them would be the teachers of bhagavad-gita you ask them what is the core of the bad Moneta renunciation so in this case even in the burgh budget I mean the point that means I usually point out what does Lord Krishna tells Arjuna o Lord Krishna tells Arjuna you may decide not to fight but that decision will be futile the programming in this body mind organism a born warrior trained to be a warrior will not allow you not you may decide not to fight it but it will be futile decision therefore Lord Krishna tells fight win the ball and enjoy the fruits of victory Lord Krishna does intellagen fight win the war and then give up the fruits no he says enjoy the fruits of victory there was Johnny well known in Hindi Hindu mythology scriptures King Janaka he was a king he lived the King's life being a king he didn't live the life of a beggar he lived the life of a king but he wasn't Johnny there was total understanding so once what happened I'll tell you story about King Janaka there was a guru with his ashram and disciples and the Guru found one disciple really interested in this good understanding but he had some doubt about this renunciation he expected renunciation giving up renunciation means giving up deliberately giving up so the Guru decided to send this disciple to King Janaka with a request that King Janaka have a talk with this desaad so when this disciple came to the court of King Janaka in the evening the usual King's way of life was happening music dancing girls going on courtiers drinking probably I don't know but a Kings Way of life being was being enacted so this disciple you know looks up and says what kind of a man has my guru sent me to enjoying himself like this anyway he meets King Janaka and King Janaka tells you but you've come all day traveling all day you must be tired the servant will take you to your quarters rest there and tomorrow morning at six o'clock I will call on you and I'll take you out for a walk in the garden and we can talk so the next morning King Janaka went to this quarters got the man out and they started walking as they started walking very few steps after that run they disciples saw that fire had taken place in his quarters so he told King John he said your majesty there's a fire that so the King Janaka said yes yes we'll let's carry on with our talk for the few steps fire water he said Your Majesty the fire is getting yes yes let us talk and then he put this be the disciple couldn't wait any longer say said Your Majesty you may have many clothes but my only other loincloth is on the string drying so this great annunciator was worried about his only other loin cloth whereas King Janaka would not have been worried if the whole Palace had gone into burnt the way so this is renunciation giving up is one of the dos and don'ts one of the religious dos and don'ts so no one slimming that is to say if there are needs they have to be fulfilled or not whether they'll be fulfilled or not fulfilled not in my control it's God's will so if the needs are to be fulfilled they will be fulfilled so I understand if the want does not remain after it is not satisfied it is indeed if the want does not continue to exist after it is not satisfied no what I'm saying is once the Enlightenment has happened and truly there is no individual door as an entity no one swimming now once would be this way what are the normal individual beings months he has a home he has a family he has a car he has a one car garage normally he would be happy but the individual wants rise he says the mind intellect the thinking mind the wanting mind says I want a bigger house I want a three-car garage now that is a monthly whether it is a need or not is another matter but that is a one thing and that is not often happens in life one thing more of what you had one thing something that you don't have those are the monks and those ones disappear meaning there is acceptance of what is but if there is a need then the body mind organism the identification with a name and form will continue to decide to do whatever it is certain order whatever it can do to satisfy that need but having decided and then what it can do that body mind organism then accepts whatever happens as the will of God and the destiny of that body mind organism in other words if that need is not satisfied there is no egoic frustration that is the point if the need is satisfied fine if the need is not satisfied it is accepted as God's will and the destiny of that body mind or for that need not to be satisfied okay you thank you you said after self-realization there is a largest muni witnessed yes and we often hear that in witnessing yeah there is nobody there to witness that is correct but life must also be able to be observed because if you say we are talking about a case where self-realization has happened has yes that means the ego the sense of doership is no longer there it had been and I he linked it so what functions through that body mind organism is not the ego with a sense of personal doership but merely identification with the name in form which in the world of ramana maharshi in like the burnt remnant remnants of a burnt rope but is still absurd lines and make decisions no well decisions that are made are not by any observer the decisions that are made are made by the working minds so the working mind continues after self-realization so it is the thinking mind the thinking mind which is the ego that is destroyed but that identification with a name and form continues to function with the aid of the working mind and with the working with a working mind you can observe lowest country the working mind will only observing by the working mind is witnessing I see it is the thinking mind with judges the thinking mind as the observer observes and judges the working mind merely observes and does whatever is necessary the working mind see something is burning the working mind will do everything possible to put the fire who's ever it is whether his or his neighbors the thinking minds will say well he's a bad neighbor let it burn the working mind says there's a fire it has to be put out you see so the identification with a name and form a weekly working mind continues and observing by the working mind is impersonal witnessing thank you most welcome yes left behind I have no question but a comment there's a problem it seems to be a problem because you what you I think if you hold the thing straight Soha all what you give the people here concepts I'm sorry all what you give yet yet all what you give to the people here are concepts yeah and that includes that you are a swindler oh how am i single do I promise you the very first time that I may not be able to give you what you have come here to get very percentage yes the problem is money the problem it seems to be a problem yes it's amount is a problem that you think we have not got what you wanted is that the problem but it's possible we can make a translation oh you old yes of course talking German mark will translate yes yes go ahead the last answer please enslave a flock of this problem is the soonest us the common hast was to avert the task no the problem is I have read all your books and a lot of doing a lot of reading a lot of hearing and then there is a bar nothing is to do now there is nothing to be done now nothing is to be done now yes and it's it makes me a little bit crazy this saying he came to the conclusion after having read all of your books having listened to you seen your tapes so he says he came to the conclusion there is nothing to be done and this makes him a little bit crazy as he's saying then it is God's will and the destiny of this body mind the organism to feel crazy at this moment yes tomorrow morning the craziness may grow and yeah of course that's right anything can happen but the problem is the activity of mind and thinking this look please talk in German then he can translate yes it's better to because my English is not so perfect and thus this problem is the situation here is let's enter into a - - currents wind and comas of the intellect well even an innovator and yet it's not really a frog Java's bizarre human soul hits fan order yeah yeah just let me translate he's saying that his problem that now while being here he has the impression that all this is a big circus so it's a so he says he don't know what to do on the intellectual level you can see there is nothing more he can understand so he's he's doubting whether he should leave whether he should go or whether he should continue to stay here make a decision you make a decision whether that decision turns out or not to be attacked we'll wait and see you can decide either to stay or to go whether you actually go or stay only time will tell because that will depend on God's will and the destiny of the body-mind ogress whether you stay or not will depend on God's will but you can decide so nothing to be done is really not correct but God God is a concept and the Guru is a concept - but you said nothing to be done what I'm saying on the contrary is do whatever you like do whatever you think you should do and that is decide to do something by all means but there's a feeling I can do nothing no the feeling would should be a would be that you can only make a decision what turns out out of that decision is not in your control and that has been your experience all your life you have made decisions some have turned out right some have turned up wrong you have made decisions which some have been wrote some have been bad you have decided to act actions have sometimes happened more often they have not happened that is your own personal experience so far that what you want what you decide to have sometimes happens sometimes doesn't that depends on God's will that is all I'm saying but that does not prevent you from making any decision at any moment that is your free will to make a decision free various concept free will that is the free will free will to make a decision nothing prevents you from making a decision it is you're out of your free will that you make a decision but there the prevalent there the free will end yes the ending of free will is in the understanding of this ending in frivolous seems to be a problem and makes me a little bit in trouble can you translate he wants to he want you to translate in German oh yeah can you translate as a statement from Ramesh in German so yes arctas it's been mistress gentleness when the globe Buddhist to contest with a duelist needs to but hiddenville total is the in China when du kannst opened easy and childhood Enfield was to divorced but so as rich and chose the flicked and AHIMA in Thailand so analysis in the hunters leaves on the in the hunt from God if you consume film to construe bus it what emerges the device that says in the kinda stupid theater stood the angst is purely kintyre thus took lobes to contested function shine now its ass not mine dodge the South Pole is loved let's only of this and that from Ramana Maharshi knows needs at image that buffoon Alice's concept Welland artists Vasya plot this Alice concept way and the GU isn't Winkler on Jesus vanish pass Mahan as says let's end least as Allison film they are applied and shared as a barn or hostas eat or a Yankee hasta Zetas egos and the Egyptian problem cannot sneak mattoon who and searched and give isn't walk and the sisters I'm the problem he can smell so that's a tear oh the sisters they can - problems and Lita's dustman and God is your own concept the Guru is in concept as a stitch bits adapter Amida and then get a sniff my vitae last week I do possess Nvidia he's saying to him now all comes to the point that all the concept he says for to him now it comes to that saying of ramana that nothing happens that everything is a concept so he says intellectually he can understand you can see that both the God the Guru and all that is happening here is a concept he says but he can understand this but he has difficulty to accept it yes is that right yes yes he wants to continue no no no I just was asking whether this was what you wanted to say now you have a problem that's what it comes down you have a problem the problem being how to make the intellectual understanding go deeper right oh that's it then the answer much I'm afraid is it is not in your control it is not in your control to push the intellectual understanding down today and understanding at heart but I would say one thing that the intellectual understanding has happened that even the intellectual understanding has happened he's the grace of God that even that intellectual and Stanley would not have happened unless it was God's will even that intellectual understanding could not have happened unless it is God's will so leave it to God's will when and where to push the intellectual understanding down to the real understanding leave it to that power which he was able to create the intellectual there are many who may even not have the intellectual understanding yes nothing is to do nothing to do except decide what you want to do I mean big difference yes please yes okay thank you you're welcome there there are psychological methods if you have information as to what they are you can act as if you have the choice to use them they may not work but the information that we have gives us certain methodologies to work with this particular situation and it may not work but on the other hand if you don't have that information then you wouldn't even have the choice to appear to try them so it may be helpful to have this information of these two hundred years or three hundred years of psychological methodologies which are only three or four that for many people do help for some do not help so that's one thing that I'm thinking the other thing is that when Mark spoke the other day he was saying I didn't get you know precisely but everything is in in flux including everything in the universe nothing is permanent including the programming it seems to me see in in your in your teaching sometimes I get the impression that the programming is is solid that the conditioning in the programming unlike anything else in the universe is a solid form no yeah that's where I mixed up because that's radio mixed up yeah let me explain what you are getting now is conditioning fresh conditioning what you are getting now is fresh conditioning effect of which can be to alter or amend existing conditioning but see I'm gonna make the assumption about this man but it's not about this particular man I'm gonna make the assumption with anybody that I hear in the psychology thing that what they have right now it's not going to stay that way if they simply witness it that somehow that the nature that Mark was talking about is such in the Taoist or whichever that things are not going to stay steady if you can witness them so I wonder if that's accurate yo can witness them know if it can be witnessed so if richness and happens if witnessing happens and who is in control of the witnessing happening we don't know are we do not you we don't we do not you that is all you need to know that it is not in your control whose control is it is irrelevant what is relevant is it is not in your control so my last question with reference to this not you know this kind of universal I'm going crazy is um sometimes this condition will just stay like that and there won't be shifts and fluxes and movements that Mark was talking about that the physicists have told us is what the universe consists of is this movement that sometimes you even you see that it can just stay stuck I told him tomorrow morning it could change I told him you heard me what the problem today tomorrow morning it may not be all depends on God's will so God's will created the problem and God will Candace make it disappear overnight but God's will also creates eternal movement everything is God's will internal movement external movement water journal in other words everything is gonna move everything is God's nothing happens unless it is God's me if you have the understanding it's God's will if you don't have the understanding it's God's if your understanding is only intellectual that's God's will but if your understanding is deeper and total it is God's Way and of course when I use the word God I do not mean an all-powerful entity connected with manifestation I mean the very source from which the manifestation itself has come about so you said that we I have two free will to decide the way I decide this also depending on my program isn't it that is correct so and my program is not my free will that is correct so my decision is own also not my favor that that is why I said you do have free will but that free will is come to fate may become defeat but you don't have to like turkey sits in touch yeah so if you like mr. danfous oh thank ya but we tuned is via am program a button on Optus program yet mr. endo on the spoon too near to the canteen grandest she's saying as a psych therapist she has the impression that she is working on the program of people of the clients that come to see her so whether that change will happen or not of the programming is not in the hand of the psych therapist that is correct but that and also not in the hand of the client know that depends on the best will of God and the destiny of the therapist and the client the tape the destiny of the therapist and the client you see so if the destiny of a particular client is to be helped by you he will be helped but if the destiny of another client is not to be helped by you he will not be helped you do the same thing you use your knowledge and information same wave effect of it is the destiny of the relative clients sometimes the therapy works sometimes it doesn't so whether it works or not is the destiny of both the therapist and the client why do I say both the therapist and the client because if it is the destiny of the therapist to have 10 clients in a row who are not to be satisfied then the destiny of the therapist will be to acquire a bad name it's the other way around also if it is the destiny of therapists to have 10 successful times everybody will talk about how good a therapist he/she is so that depends also on your destiny that's why I say what happens depends on the destiny of the therapist and the client that self therapists or medicine physician get that name he's a good position he is not such a good why because one has more successful patients than the other and that depends on the destiny of the the position of therapists concern I understand that for an individual based on the understanding that everything is God's will and how is it in in groups like families or in a company where many people have to be together and sometimes I have the feeling that like my partner goes in a different direction than me and whose will is being well understand that everybody is God's will but I don't get it how it works together in groups everything that one is doing or thinking is according to the will of God yes but her difficulty is that fun no no the will of God the difficulty she has is when there is a group of of people who is her husband that each one of them may have another invention other thoughts also given by God that it can actually has difficulties to accept this that there are different wills of God there are not different wills of God how the intellect in individual body mind organism works is the will of God so the will of God is that different people think in different terms the will of God is the different body mind organisms think in different ways and the different ways are according to the programming and I live together with someone who has different goals then does that mean I mean it reflects me and does that mean I have to learn to adjust my my way of thinking to the other part or he has to just to me or splitting or no you see your question is does it mean that I have to what is the basis of your question does it mean that I have to the answer is whatever you do will be according to the destiny of this body mind organism and the will of God does it mean that I have to means there is one successful method which you have to follow the reason the basis of your question does it mean that I have to do something to be successful that is the way to complete the sentence does it mean that I have to do something to be successful not in your control so if you want to know the will of God wait and see what you do if you want to know the will of God very simple just wait and see what you know maybe I use an example if my friend hurts me yes then obviously it's my destiny to be hurt and yes and he has no power to hurt anybody no one has any power to hurt anybody if the hurt is to happen the hurt will happen and instrument through which that hurt happened was the destiny of that instrument to be the instrument to hurt you a murder happens what has happened a killing has happened what does it mean it means the destiny of one body mind organism to be killed and the destiny of other body mind organism to be the instrument to kill that particular body mind organ a killing involves the destinies of two people according to the will of God when is a killer the other is the killed so my environment the group of people around me is being chosen through me to fulfill my destiny is that correct he says she's asking whether the group of people that now is around her well that group was chosen by her to fulfill her destiny no the group around you was chosen by God and the destiny of Europe of this body mind organ to have that particular group it was God's will and the destiny of each of those people in the group to have one another as a group it was the will of God and the destiny of every one of that group to be part of that group let's have the group was wrong because it has to be that group that kind of a group thank you you're welcome you know somehow this interest came up when you speak about the destiny I'm afraid you will have to talk a little louder because somehow this is two years of age and my hearing was never very good and now it's worse still okay so now somehow this interest came up that you spoke about destiny yes and somehow this interest came up where the destiny is from moment to moment yes or it's the whole story already written that's an interesting question a good question you see we talk of destiny from the point of view of the individual the death as far as the individual is concerned something happens from moment to moment but who has fixed the destiny God has fixed the destiny and God has fixed the destiny God who has fixed the destiny of each body mind organism for a limited span of life has big the destiny of all the body mind organisms according to the respective spans of life for eternity so God has already made the movie the movie is already there God has written the script God has produced and directed the movie God is playing every character in the movie and God is witnessing the movie so the destiny of each character has already been in the is already in the script and the movie is already there you see as niels bohr told Einstein we think God is playing dice with the universe that is we don't know what is going to happen next therefore we think God is playing dice with the universe we don't know what is happening next but he said God is not paying dice with the universe we think God is playing dice with the universe because we do not have the full information which God has God hasn't created the movie he knows the whole movie mean only seen by see you see whereas we can see only seen by seeing God has done the whole movie he knows what the whole movies about we don't know and there's knowing about this that is like this and acceptance of this there is this is a concept this is the concept it is a concept so that concept may be accepted it may not be accept the quest Masterson there's knowing in you that this is what that this is the right concept or that this is whether you accept it as the right concept or you cannot accept it is God's will and the destiny of this body mind organism so if it is the destiny of this body mind organism to accept this con concept and feel happy that be the destiny if it makes you gives you some relief why not accept the constant you see if it gives you some relief why not so to stay in this picture would it mean is it possible for God to change the movie as he's going the movie has been done so even God couldn't that is correct the movie is already done but if what you think should be changed or could be changed then them in the movie the change has already been made what you think is the change what you think is the change has already been made what you think is the change has already been made so Ramesh is absolutely everything that happens even these words I'm saying are inevitable yes that is my content nothing can be changed by you or me if what we see now needs to be changed and if it is changed that will be changed because it is the will of God and the change has existed already been made in the moment so the this is a concept to write everything is a contrary is the purpose of the teaching yeah to destroy is only to remove false concepts of this teaching is what Ramana Maharshi said that's why I said even what you are getting now is conditioning the conditioning is a thought to remove the earlier turn embedded in your foot Ramana Maharshi said the concept can only be used as a thorn to remove another thorn embedded in your foot and once the embedded thorn has been removed you throw both the thorns away you don't hang on to the to the thorn which was used as an instrument then once the misconception has been removed throw both the taunts away in other words don't hang on to any concept use the concept at that moment and forget the concept don't hang on to the concept and the teaching is revealed if you like the teaching is revealed revealed yeah it's not something you made up the teaching is revealed in the sense that what is coming out now yeah that believe me I am NOT doing the Salah media nor are you you see when I say I notice it when I say I am not doing the talking I also mean no neither are you so what is happening what is happening is a conversation taking place between two body mind organisms a conversation which is supposed to happen at this moment only because it is God's will a conversation is happening between two body mind organism and with no purpose other than that purpose only God will know okay purpose only God will do a created object cannot know the will or purpose of the Creator subject a created object which which we both are basically cannot know the will or purpose of the Creator subject if you paint a painting with a figure in it the figure in your painting can never know why you did the painting at all or why you created the figure the way you have the figure cannot know which is a created object a human object cannot know the will of the creator subject or the purpose same thing so is seeking just trying to find the purpose no it isn't no no the seeking is happening it is the seeker who wants to find the purpose and I'm saying that never has been a secret ever since the baby is born and seeks its mother's breast intuitively life has been nothing but seeking and the seeking has always depended on the programming of the body mind organism through which that kind of seeking is happening the seeking may be for money seeking maybe for fame seeking maybe for power or the seeking maybe to find out one's own nature whatever the kind of seeking seeking is happening there is no individual seeker Lord Buddha has put it on a broader basis and he said deeds are done but no individual doer there are seeking is happening but there never has been an individual seeker and the seeker by divine hypnosis through the ego is created and the seeker becomes happy and unhappy happy if you just what he thinks in seeking unhappy if he thinks he hasn't got what you seek but what is happening is seeking is happening there is no individual seeker but there is an individual seeker made to think of the individual seeker through God's hypnosis divine hypnosis which is the ego thank you ear Amish the concept you're teaching is wonderful you can put everything in it and you can declare all all problems I'm wondering sometimes it's good to have also another concept if you could tell us a concept without using the word God's will without using the word destiny you say now if you ask me to talk to you on the basis that you are not here how can I do that so if you want me to talk on the basis that everything does not depend on God's will when it does that is I'm talking to you because you're here but you tell me talk to me as if I'm not here was another question many mother Teresa there are many Christians they live in the conviction that they are just a tool in the hands of God yeah so all the ego is not existent with this conviction they're just they are just feeling themselves a tool you know do you think that this is also leading to this understanding intuitively I'm sorry give this conviction yeah and this concept maybe is leading to the same understanding like the Advaita concept yes provided that understanding that conviction is total provided that conviction is unconditional and total which is the same as understanding which is the same as self realization but whether it is mainly something that is X like thy will be done no one believes that but it uses the word I will be done but how many really believe it you see so to say that I'm not the doer God is doing through me so to what extent the conviction the debit depends on the depth and intensity of that conviction because I see so now is Mother Teresa did all she did with the conviction that God is doing through it and still I'm not saying she did and not but if she expected to be canonized or something like that then the conviction was not total I'm not saying she expected to be cannula canonized she may not have expected to be genuine and she did what she did with the total acceptance that God is functioning through or it could be and if that conviction has been was total it was enlightenment it was it was self realization Catholic or Protestant or Hindu or Muslim that makes no difference if this conviction that there is no individual door everything happens only because it is God's will his total and unconditional then it according to my concept that is enlightenment or self-realization because I remember the teaching of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa also Ramana they recommended to the householders and those people who are working in the world which people whose minds are very towards the external world more to have the approach to be the servant of God because with every concept is coming a misconception and with the concept of Advaita is coming to a misconception or that we are more in a passive mood in other words what he says is let your programming work if your programming is for doing social work do social work don't try to be about the very inviting if your programming is to be a devotee and butter then don't try to go in for social work be a butter Doba sing bhajans sing God's name but if you are programmed to be an adviser then what will happen is that you will not go towards social work you will be inclined to come here nothing happens and this is the will of God so Ramana Marshall and I'm Krishna telling someone to do this simply means they have to talk but the underlining in both cases is it will happen only if it is God's will that is the underlining bottom-line right you're going to say magic now is okay the some question that then I okay last question right well you say more - more talk you see the whole picture is already here that is my concept yeah yeah and but could it be that when we say God God doesn't know the next step the next step is unfolding oh are you sure they hold pictures already there the whole my concept is the whole picture is already there and your picture is that you want God to make the changes according to your wishes that is why you want the picture not to be pull and ready make me very gives me more feeling of being sure when I know the pictures they're so funny that's why as I said if that acceptance of that concept gives you peace and relief why not accept and but that acceptance will depend on God's will and the destiny of this body mind organ so if you're able to accept it if it is your destiny to accept it accept it along with the peace and relief it brings you

Channel: Advaita House

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Id: Nt1h0Xsmo3c

Length: 97min 28sec (5848 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 23 2021