-Rachel. Oh, I'm so --
-Hi, Jimmy! -First of all,
before we even get into this, I want to thank you
for coming on. But, also, thank you for -- for just continuing
to do your job and showing up and speaking to
the public because we need you. And it's important. And I know how hard it is
with everything, the pandemic. And you just showed up, and it
was awesome what you're doing. -Well, you know what?
The public needs you, too. I mean, we do different things, but this thing that we do where
we communicate to lots of people through the magic television is a thing that people
want and need, and we're blessed to be able
to do it through technology in a way that a lot of people
can't do their jobs safely, and we can. And I feel, like,
more privileged than ever to have this kind of job. -You've been covering the DNC with Joy Reid
and Nicolle Wallace. You guys are a great team. I think we had
some big highlight moments. I mean, the first night was -- I think
Michelle Obama's speech was pretty flawless. -Yeah. I mean, she's
Michelle Obama and you're not. Like, there's nobody like her
in the world. She's got this
sort of centered wisdom that -- I feel like she moves people in a way
that other people don't. And so for her to say,
"Listen, I hate politics, but I've also seen
the presidency up close, and if you think
it can't get worse, I'm here to tell you
that it can." That, like,
sent a chill through me. Then her husband speaks
two nights later and basically warns
that American democracy could end now. -Yeah. -That this could be
the end for us. And to hear him say that?
He's Mr. Hope and Change. Like, that was
very unsettling to me. -Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.
I got that, too. I was -- I think it was
more emotional, I think, just hearing him talk
and be like -- I haven't heard a speech
like this in so long. He's so good at this. And you go like,
"Oh, this is so -- I hope everyone out there
sees this. I hope every young person
sees this who's going to vote or anyone thinking about voting or what it means
or doesn't mean to them or 'I'm not going
to vote this year. I don't know. I don't care.'" If you watch this, you go like,
"Wait. What was I thinking? This is important.
This is our right." -And he's -- Because he is --
I mean, his brand, his whole political message
is about optimism, right? It is about what America can be and the arc
of the moral universe bending for justice
and all those things. For him to come out
with a warning to say, "This is really bad.
We're really at risk. Our country might not be
a democracy anymore depending on what happens
in the next election because the people in the power
now are happy to do away with democracy
as our form of government." I mean, hearing that from
some jerk like me, fine. Like, that's -- But hearing that
from Barack Obama, who is not that guy,
it's just -- I just feel like --
Separate and apart for how well they're
writing the convention, those two speeches
from Michelle and Barack Obama are going to stick with me
and I think stick with a lot of people
for a long time. -Yeah, I think
he did a great job. I thought Kamala Harris equally,
if not better, at holding -- I mean, that was a tough --
You got to follow Barack Obama? -Barack Obama.
[ Laughs ] Yeah, I know. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever.
-It's the number-one rule. -Never let anybody make you
follow Barack Obama. -That's the number-one rule. That's where you just go,
"Yeah, I'm good." -But, yeah.
I mean, essentially, he functioned as kind of
the nominating speech for Kamala Harris. He referred to her. He didn't
make his speech about her. But he referred to her
in the speech as "my friend," and they are actually friends.
They've have actually had a really long political alliance
and know each other. And I think people who know
that give it some heft. But, yeah, I mean,
it's also true that having a woman of color
on the ticket for the first time ever
gives you chills. And, you know,
for the Democratic Party who have had Black women,
women of color, in general, and Black women in particular, saving their bacon
for generations now. Like, no Black women voters,
no Black women doing the work of the Democratic Party,
no Democratic politicians. To finally have
an African-American woman holding that position and poised to take that
leadership role in the party, it's so overdue,
and it just feels good. I mean, seeing her approval
ratings among Democratic voters is up, you know, north of 90%. Like, oh, right.
You know, good choice, Joe. But then at the end
when she said, you know, "In not too many years from now,
people will look back on this, and they will ask us about
what it meant to be alive in this time and they will
not ask us how we felt. They will ask us, and we will
tell them, what we did." I was like -- [ Gasps ] I felt like I was, like -- I feel like future me
is judging current me right now. And I'm in trouble
because I'm -- Whatever
I'm supposed to be doing, I am definitely
not doing enough. -Oh.
-And that -- I mean, that's what you want
from a leader, right, is to call on
your own moral conscience, to call on you
to look inside yourself and ask yourself
and ask future self, ask future you who you want
to have been in this moment. -I thought the whole night
was like -- Phew. -Yeah. -I wanted to talk to you
about, also -- You had the biggest interview,
I think, in the history of MSNBC? I may be wrong. £et me know. But, I mean, in interviewing -- Donald Trump's niece,
when she had that giant book, you got the interview,
and you crushed it. When you knew you had
the interview, did you go, like, "Okay, focus up. What are we
going to talk about?" Or was it, like,
getting into the mind? Like, finally,
"Can I just get in there and talk to me
about this person"? -Well, two things about that. First of all, I had no idea
that so many people were going to watch
that interview. Even when I finished
the interview, I was like, "Oh, I wonder if we'll get
a little bump from this." Like -- [ Laughs ] You know sometimes you do a show and you're like,
"That was an okay show," and then it, like,
turns out to be a blockbuster. -Yeah.
-I had no idea. -Yeah.
-No idea at all. But, yeah. I mean,
she has a story to tell, and that interview didn't
have anything to do with me. It was just that people wanted
to hear what she had to say. She's got a really unique
perspective on the President and what she thinks
is wrong with him. -What was the one takeaway,
you think, you can go like, "Well, if anyone heard anything, you should hear
what she said about this"? -I think the thing that
sort of chilled me the most and that I've thought about
the most since the interview is when she said something that actually was very similar
to what Michael Cohen said when she did
his Congressional testimony before he went to prison, which is that she said she has
absolutely no doubt that he will not
peacefully agree -- not agree to the
peaceful transfer of power at the end of his term
if he loses. And I don't know if that's true. He's certainly been stoking
that fear among people, but for her to say, "Listen. I've known him
since I was a kid. I've known him
since I was a toddler. And I can tell you from
a life's worth of observation and every other hard thing
I've ever seen him go through, there's no way."
-Whoa. -I feel like a lot of
political observers say that, and we sort of game it out
and think about what options will there be then
for the country if a president
doesn't want to do this. But to hear somebody who, like,
knows him just say that flat-out without any equivocation was --
kind of rattled me a little bit. -Well, you probably heard the rumor, too,
that some people say, "Well, I think he might
even just quit and say like, 'Nope. I'm out.
I already got the win. I don't want to ever
get a loss on my name. -Yes.
-This whole thing's rigged. And that's it. Bye, guys.
This country's -- You messed up. And this
whole thing is rigged.'" You must have talked about that. -I don't know.
I mean, he -- I don't know. -Yeah.
-He seems like he's running. I don't think that --
If he quit right now, he would be elevating
Mike Pence to the office, which is something that
I can't really imagine him -- Like, it doesn't --
It's not like it doesn't have consequences.
You know what I mean? -Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
I didn't think about that. -And then if Pence
won the election because Trump quit
and gave him -- I mean, that would be
a mess for him, too. I don't know. I don't know.
-Yeah.
