Our guest today has impacted more leaders than probably anybody else alive. In fact, Inc. Magazine named him the number one most popular leadership expert in the world. Today we're talking all things leadership with John Maxwell. (upbeat music) Welcome to another episode of Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast where we're incredibly passionate about building your leadership 20 minutes at a time. In less, it's a bonus episode with an interview and then it's gonna be longer. And today I've got great news, we have a fantastic interview with a hero of mine in leadership, John Maxwell. I'll introduce him in a moment, but first I wanna tell you when you rate or review the content, it's really helpful and it means a lot to me. Also, if this is helpful content to you and you want to share on social media, you help get the word out and we can add value to more people's lives. Hit subscribe to wherever you consume the content and we'll send you the new content each time. And if you'd like the leader guide, go to craiggroeschel.com, click on leadership and then there's a link that says send me the leader guide. We'll send you detailed notes every time an episode comes out, it's got questions to help cover with your team. Also, I've got a resource that may be helpful in your leadership. It's a five part masterclass, it's called "How the Best Leaders Think." If you'd like free access to this masterclass, all you have to do is order a copy of my new book. The new book's called "Winning the War in Your Mind: "Change Your Thinking and Change Your Life." You can go to craiggroeschel.com, there's information. Once you order the book, you can get free access to the masterclass "How the Best Leaders Think." Today it's my honor to introduce to you my good friend, John Maxwell. John is a number one New York Times best-selling author. He's written over 100 books, who in the world does that? He's the founder of the John Maxwell Company, John Maxwell Team and EQUIP, a nonprofit that has trained more than 5 million leaders in 180 different countries. He's got a brand new book out, it's called "Change Your World: "How Anyone Can Make a Difference." John, welcome to the podcast, it's great to have you with us. And it's my joy, I've been looking forward to this for a long while. Hey, before I start picking your brain on all things leadership, a couple of stories. And I just wanna say thank you for your impact in my leadership and our whole organization. And it goes back to, I think it was 1996 or 1997, and you had the Tape of the Month Club. I realized there are probably some people listening right now that don't know where that set tape is, but there was a message and I was wondering if you remember it, I don't know what the title was but you talked about that leaders are like eagles, do you remember that message?
Oh yes, I do remember it very well. In fact, with that cassette club you're talking about, I did that cassette club for 25 years. So every month, so you just take 12 times 25 and you know how many leadership teachings I did, but yes, it was called Searching for Eagles. And what does an eagle look like, and how do you identify them so you don't end up with a buzzard or something else? We probably had three or four staff members at the time and we sat around a little table, I can still visualize it, and listened to that. And that helped us to identify the right leaders and it was fantastic teaching. And so that was when I first started following you and have followed you ever since. And then on a funny note, you were and are a hero to me and so I've always looked up to you and admire you and learn from you. And years later, I received a phone call from a friend that we both know, his name is Pastor Gerald. It was his number, and I picked it up and there was a voice on the other side that said, "Hi, this is John Maxwell." And I thought this is Gerald playing a trick on me so I just hung up the phone call. That's right. He rang again 20 seconds later and it was you on the other side with him. And so the first time we talked I actually hung up on you. Yeah I know, I remember that well. And what was interesting, Gerald, he was telling me about what you were doing and how you're doing church differently. And I said, "wow," I said, "I wanna know this guy." I mean, literally it was out of that conversation and he said, "Well, I have his number." I said, "Then call him." And that's how we kind of got started. Well, that was so much fun. We might call Gerald today and he could hang up on you as well. So I appreciate just what you do publicly and then privately, you've just been a friend even before I earned the right to be a friend and so thank you. What I'd like to do, John, you've got so many amazing quotes that have impacted me and is always interesting to think about how one sentence, one quote can change your mindset and can open up windows of understanding and leadership. And so I'd like to go through some of your best quotes and then I wanna ask you specifically about your new book, and then we'll have a little fun with some surprise questions in a lightning round. And so I've taught this and tried to explain it and sometimes people try to push back, but I want you to unpack the idea that everything rises and falls on leadership, is leadership really that important? And why do you say that? It's really that important. I was 25 years old, I'm 73 now. When I first heard that quote that everything rises and falls on leadership, and I lived with it for two years. And when I say I lived with it, I wasn't sure that I embraced it but I wanted to see if I felt that it was true. And the more that I would look around and see and experience, the more I realized it is true. Within a couple of years, it became the catalyst for my passion to train leaders. In fact, when people ask me why am I still in the leadership game, it's that quote right there. I truly believe in every area. It doesn't matter whether it's government area, education, the church world, business world, I believe everything rises and falls on leadership. And I'm so passionate about it even today. In fact, I believe that quote more today than I did when I was 25. And I think one of the beautiful things about something that really works is that the longer you live with it the more you'd love it and the more that you're convinced of it. And I've watched that principle and that quote come to reality in my life thousands and thousands of times with businesses I work with, just people, you just watch it happen. And what's incredible is once I realized this and then I coupled it with the fact that you could learn how to be a leader, because if you just stop at everything rises and falls on leadership, that can be kind of a reality to splash after a while because you look at it and say, "Well, if I'm not a leader then everything's gonna fall." But when I became convinced with that quote that you could learn how to lead, that leaders were not born, they could be made. And of course then I wrote "Developing the Leader Within You 2.0." But those two quotes together are why I'm still in the leadership game because we're watching people every day learn to lead. And when they learn to lead, everything gets better, no doubt about it. Yeah, both those principles are hard to appreciate early in your leadership until you do it long enough then you start to really see that everything really does rise and fall in leadership. And then the second thing you said that leaders can, they can learn, they can grow, they can be made, you don't have to be born a leader. And that's really, when it gets fun is when you start reproducing leadership and you see others become great. One of the things you've always talked about is how important it is to care for your people, to motivate them. And to kind to compliment you, the first time we had a private meal together in meeting, I was pretty nervous with John Maxwell, he's a hero, and you leaned in with a big smile and said something like, "How can I add value to your life, Craig?" And from the very beginning you're with a guy who was a young developing leader and you were trying to give and showed how much you care. You always help value the person with you. And the quote that you said that I liked so much is "People don't care how much you know "until they know how much you care." Some of them, I say, well, leadership is business, you know, you have to be in business, and to get results you have to care about objectives more than people. How would you respond to that? Well, my response would be that I think leaders get in trouble when they quit caring for their people. There's a very fine line as you know between manipulating people and motivating people. And I think manipulation is always wrong because manipulation is where I move people for personal advantage. And so to me, that quote is so important because it's a safeguard. To safeguard in my life, to keep me from crossing that line which we all have crossed that line, I've crossed that line before where all of a sudden I thought, "Now wait a minute, I just led that meeting "and I came out as the winner. "I'm not sure they did, but I did." And when I say that leaders see more than others see and leaders see before they see, I can tell you, once you know that to be true, that puts a great responsibility on me as a leader to make sure that I never used that more in before for my advantage to the people's disadvantage. And so what's the balance, what's the checkmate on that? It's very simple, you just care for people, not for people. And I say, when you stop loving people, really do them a favor, stop leading them because the moment that I stopped caring for you as a person, then I can promise you the motives of my leadership will go south very quick, they just do. What advice would you give, John, to someone who's maybe newer in their leadership and they say, okay, I do care for people but I don't know how to express it. How does a caring leader show that she or he cares in a leadership environment?
It's a great question. I always share that what you do, by the way that question you just asked is a very good question because there are a lot of people who really do care but they don't emote very well and they're not visual very well. And so it's not that they lack it, it's just that they have never been able to present it. And so what I always share with them is if that's your situation, sit down with your people and say, "Now, let me let me share with you "the good news and bad news. "The good news is I really care for you "but let me tell you what the bad news is, "I don't show it well. "So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna help you know "how I show it. "I don't show it because I'm not bubbly "and I'm not highly affirmative "and I don't come around and not like a cheerleader, "there are two or three things that I do "that really show that I care for you. "One is that I always, I always respect you." And so you lay out whatever those things are and you just give them what I call those care markers so that when they're following you, they don't need that emotional affirmation because they know that's not how you give it but it doesn't matter because you've already shown them the way that you care. And I think that one of the greatest weaknesses that we have as leaders many times is that we take our areas that are difficult for us and we don't sit down with our people and say, "Now this is very difficult for me "so I need you to help me. "And I'm gonna share with you why it's difficult, "I'm gonna share with you how you can understand it, "and then I want you to also come in and say, "John, maybe this would help. "Would you help me?" I think leadership, great leadership always is vulnerable and open and willing to be improved and has not only an open door policy but has an open ear policy, an open-heart policy. And I find people then migrate to that. I mean, all of a sudden they become your allies, they become, some of the best help I've ever had is because I've sat down with my team and just said, "I'm not really good here, so help me." Yeah, well, I like that. Honestly I've never thought about that, just sitting down with someone and saying maybe I'm not as expressive. There might be some introverts right now or some people that they're not the loud person, the party person in the room, but they can say, "What I want you to know is here's how I do "show that I care for you." And that is that I'll give you feedback or I don't give you negative feedback, meaning I'm gonna tell you if I do and so you can kind of clearly define here's how, and so, you know I served under a leader, John, that I never quite knew and it took me years to figure him out. I never knew if I was doing great or not because he didn't show it. But his style of affirmation was so different. Had he had explained it to me that this was a win, then I probably would have felt a lot more cared for earlier in the partnership. Yeah, I had a mentor, Charles Blair, who many, many years ago said, "John, always have an understanding "so there's not a misunderstanding." And it was just very helpful to me and I asked him to explain that and he said it's just very simple. He said, "Never assume, never assume." Which is kind of like the mother of all leadership mess ups. So be vulnerable, ask questions, find out where they are, help them find out where you are and then take off together. I'm excited to ask you about this next quote of yours because we have a lot of listeners that ask questions that are very related to this one. You said, "Leaders must be close enough to relate to others "but far enough ahead to motivate them." And so I wanna ask you about both sides of that coin. On the close enough to relate, can you first of all describe that. And then I wanna try to get into your mind and ask honestly, like, is there such thing as too close? Can you share it? Yes, that's a great question. When you talk about leading by example and being in front of them but being close enough to relate to them, I always tell leaders close comes first, close comes first. I want friends, I don't want fans. And if I want friends then I have to walk with them, and I want to walk with them. And so until I can make a connection with you and until you can know that my connection is sincere, I will impress you but I won't impact you. We impact people close up, we impress people far away. And so I always tell leaders, start with close. And the reason that you start with close is because young leaders aren't good enough to be far ahead yet. In fact, when I was a young leader, I wasn't ahead of anybody. Everybody was ahead of me. I was 22 years of age when I had my first leadership responsibility, and everybody in my group, they were already ahead of me. So I never knew what it was. It took me a long time before I knew what it was like to be up front. But it didn't take a long time for me to connect with the people who know that I really cared. And so my leadership in the beginning was really a caring connection more than a competence connection. Now, obviously if you don't develop that competence and get far out in front of them, then after a while they're going to say I have a great friend but I don't have a leader. And I have a lot of wonderful friends, I'm just not gonna follow them. But I mean, they're just terrific friends. So I think that caring comes first because that's the heart, and people touch a heart before they ask for a hand. So I think that comes first. And then obviously you've got to grow into your leadership. But if the people care for you and you care for them, they'll give you space, they'll give you time, they'll let you mess up. They're your ally. Again, I tell leaders all the time, the greatest thing you could have is have the people that you love love you and always be there to help you. Imagine this, so imagine I'm a young leader or I'm starting my leadership and I care about people and I've got a team of four or five, six, seven people and they know I care. And then I see more and I see before and so I get out ahead of them and we cast vision and we grow together something special. Now I've got 70 people and then one day 700, how do you communicate care to those people when there's too many, you may not even know all their names? Well, first of all, you know Andy Stanley, "Let's do for one what we wish "we could do for many," and I think that's a terrific principle in itself. But what I have always felt is this, I think unconditional love can be for everyone but I don't think you can give everyone equal time. And so I share with my people, you don't have to earn my love, I give that to you unconditionally. But you do have to earn my time. And so there is where I began to distinguish the people that I want to develop and that I want them to move further is by saying, "The way that I will give you that time "is for you to show me "that you are paying the price for it." That you're afforded, it's John Wooden who would tell his ballplayers, "Don't tell me what you're going to do, "show me what you're going to do." And so the moment I start going out in front, it's basically who's going to show me they wanna be out front with me. And if you come out front with me, then you're gonna have a little bit more of my time. And so I think caring for people is for everyone. But I think as far as leading and developing people, that's for someone, I think not everyone wants that kind of development and not everyone worked for that kind of development. So I think you have to be real clear. It's kind of like upfront expectations, I think that's what's important leadership, is that when somebody comes to get in the game, before you put them in the game you say, "Let's have just a good, honest conversation." For example, Mark Cole who runs one of our companies, one of the things I sat down with him years ago and I said, "There are a few things I want you "to tell every person that joins our company." And one of those things, Craig, is we will have tough conversations. And I love telling them that when we hire them, because when you hire them, this whole will be, I got a job, yay, we're in. And it's kind of like a high watermark for them, and I love that. At that moment I like to also say, "While you're feeling good and while there's been "no problems, there will be problems. "And I just want you to understand right now." So that when we have that tough conversation you'll say, "Well he isn't picking on me, "no, no, no, this is the way this works here." And I just think that the upfront conversation, upfront conversation's my willingness to be close to you. But it's also my ability to share with you that there is a leadership part of my life that is always going to cause me to confront, to push, to pull, to prod. In fact, I tell people all the time, I say, "I care enough for you to confront you." And I think we sometimes get a little, Disneyland show on confrontation is like, "He doesn't like me." No, no, no, in fact he likes you so much or she likes you so much, they're confronting you. I liked that so much too because, especially, you know, you're the leader of your organization and if someone is close enough and cares about you enough, you make a mistake. The fact that they come and tell you is a gift, is a gift and you have to work really hard to help people confront up. And also some people are afraid to correct their team members. And so I think like you said, if clarity is kind, if you can say," Hey, when I'm coaching you "is because I believe in you, "if I didn't believe in you or didn't like you "I wouldn't be coaching." And so this is actually an act of caring by saying, "Hey, you can do this better, "or have you thought of it this way?" And that's another way of caring. I feel cared for by someone else when they do correct me and help me be. Yeah, and I love you bringing that point out, and here's why, Craig, I think if I am not open for correction in my own life then it's a very difficult thing for me to turn around and do it to others. I think teachability starts at the top. And when I walk into a room into any meeting as a founder or leader, it doesn't really matter, I can tell my team and they know right off, the best idea when we walk out of here is the one's going to win. Not my idea, the best idea. And I think creating that kind of an environment is very healthy. I'm excited to hear your response to this quotes. One of my favorite quotes of yours, you say, "You'll never change your life "until you change what you do daily. "The secret of your success is determined "by your daily agenda." I'd love to know what do you do daily that helps you impact lives and build your organization the way you do? What are some of your daily disciplines that are most helpful? Well, I love that question. And I do believe this, I believe that we overestimate what we can do tomorrow, and I think we over-exaggerate what we did yesterday. (both laughing) And I think especially when you're old like me, you sit there, the good old day. So I don't think the good old days were always that good. Do you know what I mean? But I do think, in fact I know, we underestimate today. And it's the only moment I have, all I have is now, the only time I have, and that's why I tell people consistently you have to live in the present, be there, be present, whatever you're doing, do it well right now. So in my disciplines to make the day count, I have my special disciplines of things that I do in my faith walk, that I do on a daily basis, I play scripture. I have my writing disciplines, I write always in the morning. In fact one of my disciplines is that basically I don't meet with anybody until noon because I'm a morning person, I get up around 4:30 in the morning. And from 4:30 till about 10:30 to 11, I am cooking. I mean, that's when I think best, that's when I write best, and I learned a long time ago. Now, you may be a night person o you might flip that. But whenever you're at your best mentally, physically, that's when you ought to be doing your most important things and making that really count right then. But, you know, who has.. I like Joe Frazier, the boxing champion said that when you get into the ring it shows up if you practiced or not, and and if you worked out. And what we do in secret will be revealed in public, and it's only a matter of time. And one other quick thought on this is I think that consistency is such a an incredible asset to people that is totally under appreciated, because consistency compounds, I'm 73 and I can tell you right now the consistency of my life now is bringing fruit to my life that I'm surprised and I think, "How's this happening?" But it's because of this continual day in, day out, day in, day out teaching leadership to so many people and after a while, all of a sudden this return comes back that I would have never anticipated. So today, which we say is just today, doesn't seem so great. Several todays consistently done with the right reasons and the right priorities. One day shows up, "Hey, today, Sunday can becomes "what a day." Yeah, it comes, "Oh my gosh, what a day we've got here?" Well, that day out there that we graduate from college or we we get the promotion. When somebody graduates from college, by congratulating them, well, they didn't become successful when they got their diploma, they became successful when they enrolled in college and when they studied for the test and when they went to class. They're already successful, and I think sometimes we confuse success, which is required of us on a daily basis with recognition of success, that doesn't happen till some place back there. We weren't that good when we got recognized and we weren't that bad when we did the routine stuff that we needed to do to get recognized. Yeah, I think it's so important that I just kind of even wanna highlight that for someone who's listening right now that success isn't when you get the promotion or the book deal or launch your company or get acknowledged or get published or whatever, success is when you're faithful today in doing the small things. And along your line of saying overestimating, underestimating, had a mentor years ago, John, tell me that some of that's very similar, but he said that you're typically overestimating what you can do in the short run, and these will be you'll vastly underestimate what you can do through a lifetime of faithfulness. And that's what you're talking about, I like the idea of consistency compound, it's so true. I was doing a leadership conference one time and we were having a great day, there were a couple thousand people there. I was in my last break and I was signing some books, and a kid who was just getting his MBA came up to me, he was so excited, "Oh man, I love this," he said. "I've decided I wanna do what you do." And I said, "Well, that's great." I said, "I have a question for you." "So what's that?" He's so eager. I said, "Would you like to do what I did "so you can do what I do?" The issue is not I wanna do what you do, everybody wants to do what somebody that's doing something really amazing does, I tell them, "Forget I wanna do what you do," and go to, "Well, am I willing to did what you did?" You got to get in the did world before you can get into the do world. And so we had a nice conversation, but I think so many times we see the success of somebody and we kind of gravitate like, "Oh, I wanna do that." Not realizing there is a whole process of daily disciplines that got them there and without those they would have never had that day. Yeah, I can imagine somebody listening now just they're in the diding part. You got to did so you can do. Yeah, and I tell them if they don't do the did they know they're in deep do-do. (laughing) Let me ask you one more, about one more quote and then I wanna hear about your new book and then we'll do a little lightning round of fun questions. But you talk a lot about attitude and one of your well-known quotes is "People may hear your words but they feel your attitude." And I'm curious, John, how important is attitude in leadership like for real, how much does it matter? Well, I think it's the difference maker. Now I've heard people say attitude is everything and that's not true, I will always want to say no. If attitude is everything, what do you do with incompetence? The good news is they have a great attitude, the bad news is they're incompetent. Well, one day you got to deal with the incompetence. So attitude isn't everything, but I do think it's the main thing. And what I mean by that, I think it's a difference maker. If you have two people with equal skill set, equal experience, equal contribution and all that but one has a good attitude and one has a bad attitude, who are you gonna have on your team and why? For only one reason, attitude is showed up in one person's life instead of another person's life. My father passed away on July 4th of 2020, 98 years old. Incredible influence upon my life, Craig. And two days before he died, I sat by his bedside for three hours. And I sat down with him and I shared with him every lesson that he taught me. And as I would share with him every lesson that he taught me I would say to him, "I learned the lesson from your words first, "but I remember the lesson because of your actions, "you backed it up with your life." And I think that everything that we say is backed up by our spirit, by our attitude. It's kind of like what you said was true but your attitude made it palatable, it made it something that gave me a hunger to to have. And I think that attitude is a choice. One other thing, attitude's choice, something so important we get to choose. A lot of things I'm unable to do because I don't have skillsets, but everybody can pass the attitude test if they want to. And the other thing is, in skills you can only develop it, from a one to 10, you can maybe only develop your skills two or three numbers. But in attitude, you can go from a zero, which I've known people that have a zero, to a 10. Because in matters of choice, you can grow greatly, in matters of skills sets, et cetera, you grow much slower and less increments. So one follow up question 'cause I know a lot of leaders right now are discouraged, there's a lot of headwind that we're all experiencing, and so if someone is kind of down, maybe their attitude's are not so great and you're saying we can improve it, what advice do you have to help choose a better attitude? Well, the first advice I have for all of us is for us to understand it as a choice. Because I think the tendency for me is that when I find that I'm starting my attitude's starting to slip and we all need attitude adjustments, we all have to understand our attitude doesn't stay like it should. And there are times when I have to go talk to myself, in fact I tell people, "The most important conversation "that you will ever hear are the words from yourself." And so I think that it begins the fact that I have to understand that I don't like what's happening, I don't understand what's happening, I can't keep up with what's happening, I can't control these things. So now as a person, I have to go to what can I control? If I can't control it, I may give it a little space of my time but I can't give it a lot of space for my time because obviously there's nothing I can do about it. So now I've got to go to what can you control? And what I learned a long time ago is what you can control will then begin to seize the moment to the things that you can't control. So with attitude, I would share with everybody right now, we're all going through difficult times, none of us like it. I do have a statement on that, and that is everything that you want but you don't have is outside of your comfort zone. And so what's really beautiful about COVID-19 and all that we've gone through is it's taken a lot of us out of our comfort zone. And honestly we're gonna look back three or four years ago from now and we're going to say, "Well, I'm much better "because I was willing to go places that I, "I got knocked out of my comfort zone." But this attitude, I would just say you have to go to self-talk and just pull away and say, "Okay, I don't understand this "but I know I can control this part." And just take the little parts of your life that you can control and put a good attitude over there. It really does work. This year we've had so many things that would be considered setbacks that like so many other people, and so I've had to talk myself through it. Okay, so what do we still have? How can we still influence? And we have a lot, we've lost some, but we have so much. When you look at what you still have and what you can do, you can take your attitude to a much better place pretty well. Yeah, in fact I told my team they're in all this set backs and all this pivots and all the stuff that we're having to make, I said, "You'll not see me mad "because what I don't understand I won't be mad about "because I know it will make me a better person. "So understand right now we're gonna constantly adjust, "we're gonna have to constantly turn back up, "do something differently, it's okay." Because the moment I can embrace the moment even though it's, you know what Max De Pree said? "The first responsibility of a leader is to define reality." Once I can embrace reality now I can do something to create things out of it that will make me and people better. Good.
No doubt. John, in 1977, you wrote down a core goal in your journal and you said, "I wanna make a difference." And you have a new book out that will reflect that core goal, the book is called "Change Your World." And it's all about, I have another copy here, "Change Your World: "How Anyone, Anywhere Can Make a Difference." And can you tell us a little bit about, do you really believe that someone listening right now wherever they are in the middle of a difficult time, do you really believe they can make a difference in the book? I not only really believe that you could make a difference and change your life, I really believe you better make a difference. Here's the first thing, I think that to change your road you have to have anger of the way things are but hope the things can get better. Anger without hope puts you into desperate straights, hope without anger is too pollyanna, hope without anger, you won't pay a price. There's a price to change your world you have to pay, and if you don't have a little bit of anger you're not gonna be sincere enough about paying that price. So in "Change Your World" the whole premise is very simple, quit waiting for someone else to change your world. And I wanted to start with a book that would allow people to have hope and say, "Okay, I can do something about where I am." And I think that's where we stopped. So the book is based on values. In fact, here's the thesis, if people learn good values and they live those good values, and if they value others and work together to develop a value based community, they can change their world. So good. And that's what we do. Well, a lot of people ask, "Hey, what's a great book "I can read next, how can I grow in my leadership?" So I'll just say to whoever's asking, change your world. And also the John Maxwell Leadership Podcast is a must listen for people. John, thank you for your contribution. I can't let you go yet because I got to tell you I listen to your podcast all the time and I text you, I tell you, every time I listen to your podcast I learn something. I have never listened, and I know I do leadership, I got it, but every time I hear you talk about leadership, there is something that you gave me and I take, I mean, I've got a whole Crag Groeschel leadership file that's going to get in my book someday of which I'll give you credit but in the royalties, but I'll give you all the credit. But the point of it is you're a terrific leader, and I listen to your leadership podcast because I always learn from you. And so thank you for how you're helping me make a difference in my life. Well, I'm humbled that you listen, thank you. Lightening round just for fun, just for fun. Besides "Change Your World," what's your favorite John Maxwell book? "Today Matters." "Today Matters."
Yeah. Biggest leadership pet peeve, what makes you crazy? Leaders not valuing people. Favorite thing that you drink during the day? I just put that during the day for some reason. My excess drink, probably two of them in the morning by 10:30 that just keeps me caffeined up. (laughing) There you go, I've got something- I didn't know we were going to talk about my sense today, but anyway. Last new thing you've tried? Okay, I did try just on basically flat service, I just came back from Jackson Hole and I never did, I skied but I never snowboarded. And so I just thought I would just try, not really snowboard, but just get in and just feel how that board was. And I got in it and I felt flat on my butt, and I got out of it, it was the last thing I tried and I wasn't any good at it. But at least you tried. At least I tried, at least I wasn't on a hill I could really hurt myself. There you go.
Yeah. Favorite movie? Oh, "Braveheart." Oh, I don't know, Lincoln, I love the movie three years ago on Lincoln that was came off of Doris Kearns Goodwin's book. "Braveheart Lincoln." In fact, my favorite movies, I break them down and do leadership lessons off of it. Excellent.
Yeah, so anyway, yeah. So if you could not train leaders or anything related and you had to do something else with your life, what would you do? I would be one of two things. I would either be a conductor of a symphony or else 'cause I love music I just think wouldn't it be amazing to have the talent and ability to take other great musicians and lead them. I guess it's still leadership when you think about it, or I'd like being an athletic director at a university 'cause I love sports. Yeah, those are probably the two things. I'd probably be- I wouldn't have guessed the first one. Yeah, oh, I had the privilege of the Orlando Symphony. One time they let me have the baton and I lead them, and of course I know nothing. That's when I realized they don't need me at all. They basically said, "Could you just get the downbeat "right so we get started." It was kind of like I could have walked away, it was okay. It was fun waving that baton as if they were following me. Final question, 73 years of leadership impacting hundreds and millions of people around the world, what are you most proud of? People like you. People like you, just a few moments ago before the podcast came on, I received a text from one of my younger leaders and she just shared with me a couple of things that she had been able to accomplish this week. And I thought to myself, "That's irreplaceable." The beautiful thing about getting to, I love my age, it's a beautiful time for me to live. And what I love about it has nothing to do with what I feel maybe I've accomplished, what I love is watching other people that I have influenced accomplishing so much more than I've ever accomplished. It's kind of like, "I know I'm going to die "but I'd like to keep living on in the lives of others." And my father, when he died, he died on 4th of July, which is so appropriate to him 'cause he loved life and got a bang out of life so I loved him dying on 4th of July, but the whole process is he'll always live, he's in me. And so being able to have a legacy with people and watch them do more than I'll ever do, that's truly where the fulfillment comes in. Well, beyond a shadow of a doubt, your legacy of leadership will lead on. And I just wanna say thank you so much for your investment in us.
Thank you, it's been my joy. The new book is out, it's called "Change Your World." And that's an assignment for you to get and to read. Also, if you'd like free access to my five-part masterclass is called "How the Best Leaders Think" you can order my new book is called "Winning the War in Your Mind: "Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life." And then just go to craiggroeschel.com and you can get details on how you can download the free masterclass just for you. And always, if you enjoy this content and it makes a difference in your leadership. If you wouldn't mind writing a review or rating it wherever you consume the content also hit subscribe so we'll send you a new content as it comes out each time. And thank you, big thank you to those of you who are sharing on social media, inviting others to be a part, if you tag me and we see it, we might even repost yours and try to bring other people into our community. John, you said it well, we've got to show that we care being authentic and all we do. So we close it out, you can probably even help me out with this, we say there's pressure, but don't worry, be yourself because people would rather follow a leader who's always real.. Than the one that's always right. Perfect. (John laughing) I learned that from Craig Groeschel. (upbeat music)
