Q&A: Barry Black

this week on QA our guest is Barry black chaplain of the United States Senate barrie see black why did you want to be chaplain of the United States Senate well it was actually not something that I dreamed about doing I became fairly serious about becoming the chaplain of the United States Senate after being invited to offer a prayer as a guest chaplain when I was the chief of chaplains for the Navy and that is when the first possibility of being the chaplain of the United States Senate was conceived in my spirit explain what the job is you are the pastor Brian for 7,000 people who work on the Senate side of Capitol Hill so you're not just providing ministry for the 100 senators and the members of their family but for the staffers and the many other people who work on Capitol Hill the janitors the Capitol Police the the journalists I mean you are a pastor for these individuals I conduct five Bible studies a week one is just for the Senators another for the spouses of the Senators I conduct a third for the Chiefs of Staff these key administrators and then two plenary Bible studies where anyone who desires to attend may do so and we can get as many as 200 people attending our plenary Bible study I conduct a spiritual mentoring class which is a 10-day program attempting to help people master the spiritual disciplines it's a smaller venue than the the big Bible study because I want a give and take that I don't have the opportunity to have in the larger Bible studies I officiated weddings officiated funerals I do premarital counseling marriage enrichment training leadership training so the many many things that a pastor of a very large congregation would do that is what this job is about where do you do the Bible study sessions I have Bible studies in in different places the Bible study for the Senators is held in the Capitol the Bible study for the and the spouses of the senators in the Capitol as well for the Chiefs of Staff that's held in Russell for the plenary Bible studies one is hell actually a postal square on the sixth floor and another is held in Dirksen so we we spread the wealth can the general public attend any of these well I don't know that we would actually have room if the general public came in but there are people who have begun to come who do not work on Capitol Hill but they come because they're very excited about learning but the Bible what kind of a tenants do you have with the senators eight or nine senators for the Bible study we also have a prep breakfast each week for the senators and you can get twenty to twenty-five senators at that so eight or nine at the Bible studied twenty to twenty-five at the prayer breakfast that's a fairly significant percentage of the Senators taking time out of their busy week an entire hour for either one of those to participate in something spiritual I think one of the little known facts about the Senate is the the level of spirituality among senators the Apostle Paul in Philippians chapter four said there are Saints and Caesars household and many people believe he was actually talking about the Emperor Nero so if Nero had Saints in his household you can you can expect some spiritually fit individuals on Capitol Hill as well and it's very interesting because senators from both sides of the aisle participate in the in the prayer breakfast and in the Bible study I wrote this quote down from somewhere either your Booker or somewhere we were speaking quote I think my lawmakers are tempted by the sin of cynicism unquote is cynicism a sin well I think that the the definition for sin one definition is in James chapter 4 it says sin is the transgression of the law and we know that doubting the power of God to extricate you from various challenges and and and and predicaments that's a part of cynicism the great commandment is love God with all your heart soul mind and strength the children of Israel journeying from Egypt to Canaan murmured complain and manifested cynicism and they did not enter into the promised land because of that so I think that cynicism is at least a transgression of the spirit of the law if not the letter of the law and therefore I would call it a sin how do you see cynicism in the United States senators and when where well I think that that there are times when the legislative process is laborious and predictable and I think particularly when issues are debated and it appears that the parties go into polarized lockstep where there's almost an attitude don't confuse me with the facts that can many times engender a spirit of cynicism you're basically saying why are we debating I had one Center to tell me when there was a debate going on he said chaplain this is just hot air well that's that's kind of a cynical way of looking at it and and he predicted what the vote would be two days later and he hit it right on the number this was very early and in might and in my time as a chaplain and I was just astonished because I said the debates haven't finished yet how can you know what the numbers are but he did and I think many times that kind of process can engender a spirit of cynicism here the 62nd chapter in the United States Senate they're been around that same number in the United States House in all those years there have been two Roman Catholics no Jews and one seventh-day adventists you how's the process work and is somebody's denomination of any significance I don't think so I think that the the first nine or ten chaplains in the Senate were Episcopalian and I think that the framers and the people who were selecting these chaplains were interested in individuals who could write and read prayers for one thing and so they selected liturgical Protestants rather than the more spontaneous impromptu or extemporaneous utterances of the non liturgical Protestants like a Baptist or Pentecostal so I think the fact that the early track record consisted of liturgical Protestants is more indicative of the fact of the kind of chaplain they were hoping would provide ministry to to to the legislative body the Senate ended up with two Unitarians also which is which is is not really very conventional so I think the focus is on the actual selection process where senators nominate chaplains to be interviewed and it's a matter of chemistry between the inner you were in the and and the interview wheat and the bottom line is this is an individual I feel comfortable with and I think will do a good job in providing ministry I did not get the sense when I was interviewed for the job that denomination was a critical variable at all who which senator interviewed you well I was actually interviewed by an an 8 member Senate selection committee so it was a group of senators from a wide variety of religious traditions including Jewish can you tell us who they well I would rather not mention my old military training I'd rather not mention the names of the senators on the on the on the selection committee who designated those eight well I think they were selected probably by the majority leader at the time dr. bill frist it was a three interview process the first interview they were a significant number of ministers priests and rabbis were interview it was winnow down to about 10 a second interview involved very specific questions regarding the strategic direction that you would take the chaplains Department if you were Lee select D and then the ten were winnow down to two and the two had an extended interview with dr. fritz a Renaissance man two hours no notes just sitting and talking with him for two hours and then he he is the one who made the final determination as to who would be appointed as the 62nd chaplain of the of the Senate and I I think the process has been similar for for a number of decades okay this is it sounds like a nasty question but it's not meant to be if if somebody wanted to move you out of there or or let's just say the Senate did how does that process work and how long I mean I know you started in 2003 how long is your tournament it's an open-ended appointment so that when there is a change in the majority in the Senate there is not a change in the chaplain there's a change usually in the Secretary of the Senate and the sergeant-at-arms but not a change in the chaplain one chaplain chaplain Frederick Harris Peter Marshall the iconic Peter Marshall successor was there for 25 years he was there five years before Marshall providing ministry to the Senate and then a number of senators had begun to attend Marshalls church and hearing the lyrical eloquence of this of this Scottish preacher and so they went to Harrison said would you mind stepping down so that dr. Marshall could become the chaplain of the Senate and Harris said not at all so it was a wonderful spirit Marshall became chaplain of the Senate in 1947 and although because of the book and the movie a man called Peter most people think that he was there forever he was he was there for less than two years and died and then they went back to Harris and said Harris would you mind coming back and becoming chaplain of the Senate not a problem and he came back for 20 years so for a quarter of a century five before Peter Marshall and and 20 after Marshall a Harris Harris provided ministry I think if a chaplain sensed that his or her ministry was no longer effective I don't think that that chaplain would have any problem stepping down but I think the way it's set up now the open-ended appointment barring felonious conduct and ineptitude I think a chaplain can pretty much stay for as long as as he or she desired and the fact is that most of the chaplains have stayed almost to the point of death dr. Halvorsen died shortly after he retired I mean and to me that's indicative of the fact of how much they really enjoyed the job that even through illness they continued to to provide ministry it is really an exciting ministry opportunity and I don't see anyone just walking away voluntarily where's your office my office is on the third floor of the Capitol overlooking the mall so the Washington Monument is straight ahead I can actually sit at my desk and watch the inauguration of a president I can watch the fourth of July fireworks I can watch the New Year's Eve fireworks you know just sitting there at my desk it is one of the most beatific views I think anywhere in the world and I and my Navy experience I've seen a lot of beauty but that to me is just absolutely gorgeous when I first came and offered a prayer as a guest chaplain I I didn't get a chance to see the chaplains office dr. Lloyd John Ogilvie great great man was the chaplain of the Senate at the time the second time I was invited as a guest chaplain he asked me to come up and and visit with him in the office and I walked through the door and I saw the Washington Monument straight ahead it was a beautiful clear Washington day and I was absolutely mesmerized by the beaut view it was I mean I just felt goosebumps although it was just absolutely amazing dr. Ogilvie put a hand on my shoulder and with that amazing baritone voice he said Barry if a man can't pray for the nation with a view like this something is seriously wrong and we just chuckled together but I my office is the old Senate library so I have these beautiful mahogany bookcases around the wall and my wife is repeatedly through the decades of our marriage accused me of what she calls book Hall ISM we've reached a point in our marriage now where every new book I bring home I have to get rid of one of my old books I probably have a library of over 10,000 books and so I've begun to smuggle books into the snow it's a shame but it's it's on the third floor and these beautiful mahogany bookcases filled with books from home and then this amazing view it's a wonderful place to write prayers and to prepare Bible studies and sermons and I can't wait to get to work in the morning how many people work for you I have three people on my staff a chief of staff who was my executive assistant when I was chief of chaplains for the Navy dr. Allen Karen one of the best administrators I've ever met a communications director Lisa Schultz and an executive assistant Jodi Sprague ins and your duties as far as the Senate itself is concerned how often do you give a prayer each time the Senate convenes I open with an invocation but there are also many other times that I will also offer a prayer because their meetings and functions in the in the in the Senate where I have an opportunity to offer an invocation or a benediction when there's a Congressional Medal of Freedom given I offer an invocation when there's a new statue placed in Statuary Hall I offer an invocation or a benediction when there is a state funeral I offer a prayer for Ronald Reagan state funeral for Gerald Ford States you know I offered a prayer when Rosa Parks was lying in honor I offered a prayer so there are many other opportunities to offer prayers and then there are many many things happening in Washington where the services of the Senate chaplain are solicited to to assist with prayers how long is your in prayer in the Senate every day and do you write them I write all of my prayers and I try I tried to stay within the 1 minute mark you know when I write them out I actually will time them sometimes like between 45 seconds in a minute and that's probably to some extent because of my Navy experience in the Navy most of the invocations and benedictions were offered while the Eternal Father the Navy hymn was being played and the first answer of the Eternal Father is about 45 seconds so you became accustomed to hearing that that the beautiful strains of music and coming down to the conclusion and you galloped on to the finish line so a little bit of that has to I think affects my prayer here you are giving the prayer on March the 2nd of this year let us pray o merciful Lord we thank you for the refreshment and accomplishments of our time away and for your clear shining inward light that directs our steps may the members of this body feel your peace and power today restrain wandering thoughts and break in pieces those temptations that lead them away from your will Lord join our senators to yourself with an inseparable bond of love for you alone truly satisfied grant that their love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight so that they may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless when they and before you Lord this is the first time in nearly 50 years that the Senate will convene without Senator Edward Kennedy as one of its members thank you for his life and legacy we pray in your sovereign name Amen that was actually September 8th the wrong date on this year a little longer than normal I don't know what was the time on there I think it was minute 49 seconds okay well maybe it was because of the the fact that I was mentioning that the senator and that was added on to what I normally would would do but ha I think it's a little longer than normal how often do you single out a senator I think if we if a senator dies obviously that is something that I would mention if there is a serious sickness in the family I might lift lift that individual in the Senators family in prayer as well it doesn't happen very often I ran across the word I'd never seen before and in looking at your background ha mala Titian mm-hmm and at the same time and this takes me back to my schooling Monroe's motivated sync with sequence I don't know that I've ever heard anybody use it but you Carlin Monroe I explained what's a Hummel Edition well the study or science of sermon preparation is called homiletics and a Hummel Edition is a teacher or professor or an educator who is dedicated to the science of homiletics teaching men and women how to prepare sermons when I was in seminary in Berrien Springs Michigan my seminary professor taught Allen Monroe's motivated sequence which is a marvelous way of presenting a persuasive argument or message attention need satisfaction visualization and that is something that I've used in writing expository essays and obviously in writing books and in writing and writing prayers as well go back to the beginning where were you born I grew up in South West Baltimore so right up the street almost from DC in your book you say that you were thrown out of your home three times in your life tonight well we were in a we were in a difficult situation one of the reasons why I call my book from the hood to the hill is because we grew up in the hood we grew up in the toxic pathology of an inner-city ghetto there were prostitutes on the corner there were drug pushers there was domestic violence that you could see sitting on the steps of your of your home so it was a very challenging situation and my mother who for a significant portion of my life was on public assistance would often have difficulty paying the rent and ensuring that her children were matriculated at Christian schools because my seven siblings and I all matriculated at Christian schools from grade one all the way through graduate school so to pull this off many times she couldn't pay the rent and when you don't pay the rent you will be evicted and so three times in my life I came home from my nice Christian school to find our furniture out on the street what happened then well it's rather embarrassing because I don't think as a child the the trauma of being evicted is great because you don't know where you're going to be staying I think you're embarrassed by just how little you actually had and so now the neighbors can see you know oh my god I knew we were poor but is this really it so it's it for for me as a child it was more of an embarrassment than a concern about where will where will we stay and of course we had relatives in in Baltimore so inevitably in the old philosophy of any port in a storm we would end up staying with relatives sometimes sleeping three or four to a bed until my mother could locate another port how many children does your mother have my mom had eight what did your mom do for a living my mother was a domestic she scrubbed floors and iron clothing for six dollars a day your father my father was a long-distance truck driver and something of a nomad he was in and out so the first five children had a very tenuous relationship at best with him the third that the second group that the sect the three the final three had a much greater bond with him and it was very interesting because at his funeral the first five I was in that group we were all most stoical I mean we really didn't know him very well and the the other three were almost inconsolable oh so he came home at the eleventh hour and and and did a fairly decent job parenting the the second group but he was gone most of most of my life by the time I left Baltimore to go away to a boarding school in Pottstown Pennsylvania in the eleventh grade I had had very little substantive interaction with my father I don't have the quote in front of me that I read in one of the seven day Adventists publications that and this is really just by memory something the affected that Barry black became the chief of chaplain and also chaplain on the United States Senate something that we'll probably never see again in our history meaning seventh-day adventists how why is that at all controversial and why are they so surprised that they have somebody I don't know that I agree with that that that that conclusion but James Madison who supported the establishing of the legislative chaplaincy in 1789 when he retired he wrote something called practical memoranda where he just mused about various political political machinations and Madison said I'm not sure that having a legislative chaplaincy was a good idea he said and one of the reasons is I think that the selection process is sufficiently political that we will never have a Roman Catholic and we will never have a member from a minority denomination selected as the a chaplain in the legislative branch I think it's great to see that our framers were not omniscient because he was wrong we've had a couple of Unitarians the seventh-day adventists and we've had a couple of Roman Catholics so I think it is probably that mindset of senators nominate the people who will be interviewed for the job of chaplain of the Senate you usually nominate people you're familiar with so you're going to be nominating people from your denomination and because we haven't had I don't know if we've ever had a seventh-day adventists eneter the likelihood of a senator nominating someone who is seventh-day adventists would be slim to none but I think my case proves that that that's not necessarily right and my numbers are on 25 Catholics 13 Jews and the rest Protestants you know everything good true go back to your mother I read this but I gather that she became a seventh-day adventists because of one happenstance yes my mother was the daughter of a South Carolina sharecropper she only had a fourth-grade education she migrated to Baltimore and she was having a very challenging time someone placed an evangelistic hand bill in her mailbox and the title of the sermon that the Evangelist used it's bait to get the people to come out and hear him preach why the day money will be thrown in the streets of Baltimore Maryland and no one will stop to pick it up well my mother in recounting the story said she thought to herself I'm not even going to stay for the whole service yeah I just want to know when is the money going to be thrown and where will it be thrown because I know at least one person who will stop to pick it up she had she went to the meeting and of course it was a meeting on Bible prophecy she was drawn into the superb scriptural exposition of the Evangelist and eventually I guess about 12 weeks later for very long evangelistic meetings in those days she was baptized as a member of the seventh-day Adventist Church and as she entered the water she was pregnant with her fourth child she prayed that the Holy Spirit would place a special anointing or consecration on a run born child and I was that child so I cannot think of a time in my life when I did not want to pursue the ministry as far back as I can remember that is all I've ever wanted to do there has not been another rival in my vocational affection and I believe to some extent it was because of the consecration I received when my mother was baptized in a meeting where the bait was the day money will be thrown in the streets of Baltimore Maryland and no one will stop to pick it up what makes a seventh day in Venice not in the mainstream well I think what makes a Seventh day Adventists not in the mainstream is probably a lack of understanding of what the doctrines of the seventh-day Adventist Church consist of I think if you looked at evangelical Protestantism most of the doctrines seventh-day Adventists would be able to give a fervent on end to in fact if you look at the Apostles Creed seventh-day adventists reciting the Apostles Creed would say a fervent are men to every I believe in God the Father Almighty maker of heaven and earth Jesus Christ His only Son our Lord did they believe in the deity of Christ conceived of the Holy Ghost born of the Virgin Mary suffered under Pontius Pilate crucified the entire Apostles Creed there is nothing in that Creed that a seventh-day adventists would not say I believe that all men are men but I think because seventh-day Adventists teach something that is very different from the mainstream and that is that the sanctity of the Sabbath day which we are enjoying to keep in the fourth commandment Exodus chapter 20 verse 8 remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy six days shalt thou labor etc the seventh-day Adventist Church teaches that that sanctity was never changed and so we worship as do Orthodox Jews on from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday as our SAP that many folk would say would take us out of the mainstream there's also the fact that we still eat according to the Old Testament and so the hitless in Leviticus 11 in Deuteronomy 14 of certain foods seventh-day Adventists would not eat those foods and so that that health emphasis would also some would say would be out of the mainstream but from my perspective that's a very small percentage of doctrine in in light of the many many other aspects of biblical Christianity that we say on then to the diet are you a vegetarian I am but that is not something that is a test of fellowship in my church I'm I'm a vegetarian because I grew up that way and I believe it's a it's a rather healthy lifestyle do you drink alcohol no do you drink caffeine why not well all of that I mean what's the well first first Corinthians 3 says know you not that your body is the temple of God and and their physicians who would say that obviously alcohol in excess is problematic and that caffeine in excess is problematic the Apostle Paul said in first Corinthians 6 all things are lawful but I will not be brought under the power of any and so I think my my not drinking caffeine I'm not saying that under no circumstances would I drink caffeine if I'm driving long distance and I'm dozing off at the will wheel I might go in and get a cup of coffee to try to you know stay awake but you know I didn't drink coffee coming up I saw the problem of alcohol with my father who was an alcoholic and so I don't engage in in any of that you spoke at a conference and this is just a minute clip I want to show you back this was actually back in March of this year let's watch and I'll get your reaction there are remarkable spiritual Giants on Capitol Hill in fact I am convinced that going to Capitol Hill actually makes you more spiritually vulnerable you see most of these senators have experienced a succession of successes and then suddenly they enter the marvelous deliberative body called the United States Senate which was designed by the framers to enable a minority to produce a stalemate and perpetual check for you chess masters and so here are people who are customed to using their intellects and talents to accomplish things often discovering that their best efforts will not be good enough and that will lead you to look up and say my god my god why so there's some spiritual Giants trust me and the Senate how do you see that well I believe their Senators who spirituality dwarfs my own quite frankly I think that the old saw humanity's extremity is God's opportunity so here is a senator accustomed to getting it done and then all of a sudden because of the filibuster and because of the the nature of the deliberative process and the Senate sometimes you can't even get a bill to be voted on an up or down vote because of the nature of of the deliberative process that can become very very frustrating and so I think that many times when we reach the end of our resources in fact there's a hymn that says when we when we come to the end of our hoarded resources our father's power has only begun so I think that that is what I'm talking about when I say spiritually vulnerable it actually can it actually can make you more spiritually sick you'll do a lot more praying a lot more meditating because of the challenge of getting through the sometimes gridlock that you encounter in the legislative process on the back of your book you have a quote from Jon Kyl Republican conservative and from Barack Obama former United States Senator not a conservative and Jon Kyl says in from the hood to the Hillberry black shows you how to walk the walk on your faith journey Barack Obama says chaplain Berry and black embodies the best of the American spirit and the Christian tradition the Senate in the country are grateful for his service the reason I mentioned both of them how do you thread the needle do you have strong personal political views yourself and how do you deal with members who are all over this place politically well I have very strong political views because I believe in the Bible and I think that anyone who takes biblical theology seriously is going to have some very strong political views but my position as chaplain of the Senate is nonpartisan and non-sectarian that does not mean however that I must put my intellect in neutral one of the reasons I think that I was selected as the 62nd chaplain of the United States Senate is that senators desired someone who could provide them with with advice and they want to hear chaplain what do you think about this issue and so they asked for my opinion and under the radar behind closed doors I can tell them exactly what I feel about any issue that is being debated in the chamber and then they can do with with that issue whatever they desire to do my primary concern is that when a senator makes a decision he or she has an ethical reason or reasons for the decision that is being made for the way he or she is voting and in a number of my Bible studies we talked about vxb the ethical decision making process we grapple with what do you do with a right versus right conundrum because so often the issues that come to the Senate are not right versus wrong they're two colliding stories they're right versus right that's why you can get sincere people on both sides saying this is the way that we should go and so I talked to them about identifying right vs. right paradigms like is it truth versus loyalty is it long-term versus short-term is it justice versus mercy is it the individual versus the community and and learning how to do that and then bringing ethical lenses both theological and philosophical like an opthamologist to is giving you an eye test is it clear and well let's try this is it clearer now so we will talk about John Stuart Mill utilitarianism strive to do the most good for the most people or cut a part of his categorical imperative live in such a way that your action can be made universal law or the golden rule of Jesus Christ treat others as you want to be treated and on and I've got about 25 lenses that we talk about and we discuss so that when a senator votes I'm not I don't care which way he or she votes even though I have a very definite opinion about an issue but I want to know why did you vote that way senator and as long as there are ethical reasons and evidence for that vote I'm fine I'm fine with that because most of the issues that are debated in the chamber are sufficiently nuanced that you know it can often end up being you say potato when I say potato not always but many times that's the case how much of an effort do you make to go to each of the Senators and spend time with them well because of the prayer breakfast and Bible study I'm going to spend time with 30 to 35 of them a week anyhow innate in any teaching mode sometime when we have a roll call vote and all of the Senators Promenade to the chamber to vote I will usually make my way there as well and I'm interacting with senators at that time I meet them in the various corridors I go to their offices sometimes sometimes they will come to my office so there are many many opportunities that I have to interact with them I started out by saying my job is like being pastor of a very large church I think the kind of interaction that I have with my congregation is probably more substantive than what the average pastor can do because very few pastors actually interact with members on their job but I'm working in the same place where my congregation is working you have a chaplain of the house that you have in the Senate but why no chaplain of the supreme court and no chaplain of the White House that's a good question I guess the frame has never got around to to doing that but I think another reason may very well be that the in the Constitution the legislative branch really is walking point and that may be that may be one of the reasons are there members of the Senate that want nothing to do with you not that I know of and I don't mean that person that they have no interest in your kind of Christianity I mean you've thirteen Jewish members what do they do oh I interact with Jewish members very often we have rabbi who comes in and gives Torah studies and Jewish members participate in that and Jewish staffers participate in that as well as Christian staffers if you really want to understand the Old Testament let a rabbi teach it my experience of providing ministry in a pluralistic setting for 27 years the United States Navy Marine Corps and Coast Guard has enabled me to facilitate pull the spiritual needs of those who may come from non-christian tradition that's what you do as a as a military chaplain so I interact with with our Jewish members and from time to time we have Jewish members who come to prayer breakfast because you don't have to be a Christian to be interested in the power of prayer you've been known to say that yeah and I'm not sure how you put it with the spouses Bible study can be more interesting or more involved in the Senators well the spouse is a very transparent and very often you learn a lot more about the Senators as the spouses interact and talk in the Bible study than you would in the in the Senators Bible study so that's what I meant when do you have a bad day and for what reason well I don't think I have a bad day my worst day is probably a good day I get up in the morning and the first thing I do is I get on my knees in prayer and before I talk to what some have called members of the most exclusive club in the world I talked to their creator and that gets me going I deliberately drive in it's about a 40 minute drive from Northern Virginia in order that I can listen on my CD player to the Bible and I pray the scriptures so I listen until something stops me I turn off the CD player and I talk to God about it by the time I get to the capital I am raring to go I am juiced I've got a high and that sustains me through the multiplicity of experiences and sometimes vicissitudes that I may encounter one of my favorite Bible passages is Philippians 4 6 and 7 and I try to live it it says have no anxiety about anything but pray about everything with Thanksgiving and the peace of God that passes understanding will guard your heart and mind if in Christ Jesus if there is peace that is beyond human understanding guarding your heart in mind because you are not having anxiety about anything but praying about everything you're not going to have a bad day how many times have you read the Bible in your life or listened to it hmm probably 20 or 25 and this memory thing you've got when did you know you had such a good memory and how good is it well when I was in the 11th grade I was debating with a teacher about a grade I received on an essay and she said okay I tell you what if you can memorize one of Poe's short stories by tomorrow because we haven't covered though I will I will give you an A instead of an A - I picked up the book I started reading the black cat which was the first story that I got - and I walked the half-mile to the dormitory when I got to the dorm I was about a third of the way 2/3 of the way through it and I turned around started reading it on the way back and was able to recite most of that short story so I had in the old days almost photographic recall and I thought she said that can't be possible and she started from my infancy I was noted for the docility and humanity of my disposition my tenderness of heart was even so conspicuous as to make me the constant jest of my companion I was indulged by my parents with a huge variety of pets with these I spent most of my time and was never more happy than when feeding or caressing them and on and on and on and on and on I memorized all of Martin King's speeches by hearing them never saw the manuscript so there was a time when I had a remarkable memory I tell people now it was once photographic but I've run out of film so these days it's not quite that good but it's it's fairly good how about your brothers and sisters they how many of em are still alive seven of the eight are lost a brother a couple of years ago and they've all done very well they all matriculated at Christian schools and ended up teaching at the university level principals of schools making significant contributions why was your family with your mother being on welfare your father not being around being an alcoholic why did they manage to live out of this process and so many families don't well I talk about it in and from the hood to the hill about developing a cocoon in which young people are able to survive the pathology of the environment and eventually get wings the the three critical factors for my siblings and me being extricated from a generational cycle of poverty one was a godly mother unknown who gave us our allowance based upon scriptural memorization five cents a verse and we first picked the low-hanging fruit thee we would comb the Scriptures looking for Bible verses one of my favorite bible verses today is John 11:35 jesus wept and so we get the two word verses remember Lot's wife the three word verses and I fell in love with the book of Proverbs because the verses issue it obviously so that training in the home in addition to the scripture memorization my mother had morning and evening worship in the home so that was the first factor the second factor was a Christian education we matriculated at Christian schools where I mean every day we were exposed to what I feel is the life changing power of of God's Word and then the third factor was a supportive Church Berea Temple seventh-day Adventist Church still on 1901 Madison Avenue in Baltimore Maryland where there I found wonderful adult role models and people who mentored me who encouraged me and who enabled my mom to afford a Christian education for all of us they had a program where if you were to impoverished to afford the tuition the church would supplement your income to enable you to do that there's a list of schools you've been to that are not the norm and I'll just list them first public schools of Baltimore but Oakwood College Huntsville Alabama and Rouge Theological Seminary Berrien Springs Michigan North Carolina Central University of Durham North Carolina Eastern Baptist Seminary Lancaster Pennsylvania where you got a Doctor of Ministry of theology and 82 sabe Regina University of Newport Rhode Island Master of Arts in management 1989 University a United States International University San Diego California Doctor of Philosophy and psychology in 1996 how much for all that well thank God for the GI Bill and one of the reasons why I continued as a professional student was I would finish a program and I would write a letter thanking the the military for financing it and they would call me and basically say you still have money left on your GI bill no you don't grow up poor and you're going to leave any money and in the pot when you can get it so the Salvatore's was a part of a program of supervisory leadership that the Navy had and when you became a supervisory chaplain you you were able to do that so that was tossed in but I was working on my PhD at the United States International University and the salvan Astor's at the same time so this before we end the story of the young man that came to you your church which led to you going into the Navy how old were you where did you live what were you doing I was pastoring in Durham North Carolina i pastored 11 churches before coming into the navy chaplain Corps now that's not as impressive as it sounds i pastored eight at one time I was a circuit rider and then I pastored three and while I was in Durham three sailors would drive from Norfolk Virginia on the weekend to worship in Durham North Carolina what's that distance it's at least a five hour drive and I knew you know you know I'm a halfway decent preacher but nobody is that good that that's worth the trip so one day I said why don't you guys just you know stay up in the Norfolk area and they said we have never seen an african-american chaplain in the Navy and so that was planting a seed in my mind regarding a ministry opportunity because one of my passions is working with young people and a few months later my church started soliciting the services of ministers who would be willing to go into the military and the experience of of interacting with these three sailors you know motivated me to accept that offer and to become a Navy chaplain and it was one of the best things I ever did you know where any of those three are today oh yeah two of them are still in the in the Norfolk Virginia Beach area is the seventh-day Adventist Church substantially african-american oh no and there are 17 million worldwide members all right well probably 16 and change but yo the we have a very large work in Africa we have a very large work in into America but the church was founded in the mid nineteenth century and it was a predominantly white initially but there was a tremendous and aggressive mission program and reaching out to the marginalized the lost the lonely in the least I think the Seventh day Adventist Church took very seriously the mandate of Christ in Matthew chapter 25 to feed the hungry to clothe the naked to minister to the incarcerated and the sick and to take care of the stranger and so they reached out and so it's a very diverse church right now how much longer do you think he'll want to be chaplain in the Senate well all I can say Brian is I am enjoying the ride and if my health holds up I'm going to continue to have fun as long as as God gives me the opportunity and I'm waiting Isaiah talks about a voice behind you saying this is the way walk ye in it and proverbs 3 talks about God directing our paths and so that's what I'm depending on when he says it's time to move then it's time to move but until that time I'm just enjoying the ride 62 years old yes 60 second chaplain nice there must be something providential about that and we didn't invite you for this book what you did it back in 2006 there is a book from the hood to the hill that you have published and it was a normal you know publisher berry see black Admiral berry seemed like thank you very much for joining thank you it's been a joy for a DVD copy of this program call one eight seven seven six six to seven seven to six for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program visit us at QA or QA programs are also available as c-span podcasts

Channel: C-SPAN

Views: 33,081

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Keywords: commentary, analysis, C-SPAN, cspan, q&a, black, chaplain, senate

Id: BsQH1rUpWqk

Length: 58min 4sec (3484 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 26 2009