Bridging the Religious and Secular Divide

good afternoon ladies and gentlemen welcome to the Heritage Foundation and our Lewis Lehrman auditorium we of course welcome all those who join us on these occasions on our heritage dot org website and those joining us today via c-span we would ask everyone here in house if you'll be so kind to see that cell phones have been turned off as we prepare to begin all of us will appreciate that especially those recording the event we will post this program on the Heritage homepage within 24 hours for your future reference in the future as well and now if you will please join me in welcoming our presenters they will take their place here on the stage thank you John it's a joy my name is brett bernhard chief of staff here at the Heritage Foundation it's a real joint honor here today along with Senator DeMint to introduce chaplain Black here to the Heritage lectures and seminars program having served in the Senate as a chief of staff to Senator DeMint I can tell you that chattin black stands unique position in the Senate which is indeed a secular institution as we look at the topic for today bridging the religious and secular divide may cause us to think that the intention is to eliminate the divide in the middle of the two sides into one well not a perfect analogy it's helpful to consider what the purpose of a bridge is it does not exist to close the divide fill the divide or eliminate the divide in fact really bridge acknowledges the divide and it exists because of the divide it simply traverses it the invitation for today's program put it well when it said it's possible however to bridge the divide between the secular and religious worlds and quite arguably for the betterment of the boat I can think of no better description of what chaplain Black does is the 62nd chaplain of the US Senate then this invitation description he is as a scripture says the man standing in the gap as the pastor of the Senate he serves as councillor comfort comforter and friend to many including myself rarely a day goes by that I don't consider something he has taught in one of the Stan's Bible studies which helps me through a challenging situation after all someone who has spent most of his career deployed months at a time as a Navy chaplain has plenty of practical advice let me tell you so now it's my pleasure to introduce senator DeMint Jim DeMint president Harrison who will introduce chaplain black berry it's wonderful to have you here out of the darkness into the light over here at the Heritage Foundation I know I just came from there myself chaplain black was commissioned in 1976 as a chaplain in the US Navy and he retired as Rear Admiral after a nearly 30-year career serving his navy chief of chaplains in his last position he has earned doctorates in both philosophy and ministry his biography from the hood to the hill recounts the story of overcoming unpromising beginnings in the inner city of baltimore his more recent book the blessing of adversity finding your god-given purpose in life's troubles distills the wisdom he has gained from 30 years as a counselor theologian and psychologist for addressing the many trials and life and Barry we have plenty of those so I appreciate you coming from sharing with us today thank you so much I'm extremely nervous today because members of my staff are here so they're critiquing me a lady approached me some time ago and said dr. black if they permit prayer in the legislative branch of government why have they removed prayer from our schools and I must confess that I was rather flippant in my response it was a reflex and I should have thought through my response a little more carefully I said madam as long as there are final exams there will always be prayer prayers in our schools it demonstrates the fact that even in a secular environment the spiritual is often present in 1787 at the Continental Congress the group had reached an impasse when Benjamin Franklin spoke and he said gentlemen I'm an old man but I have lived long enough to know that if a sparrow cannot fall without God knowing it that an empire or Republic cannot rise without his help and Franklin suggested that the group should pray I think it's an example of bringing the spiritual into a secular environment many of us feel that the work of the spiritual is that of the minister and if I were only an ordained clergy person I could certainly inject some spirituality into my my workplace my work environment or the secular environment I would challenge that presupposition I think it is critically important to remember that 90% of the life of Jesus was spent in a secular occupation he was a carpenter only three years in what we would consider the priest prophet ministry and outreach 75% of our biblical heroes and heroines were involved in secular occupations and yet were able to bring the spiritual into those occupations Daniel Shadrach Meshach and Abednego or as we used to say in my church a bad Negro but anyway that repeat and there were so many Nehemiah was cupbearer for our excerpt sees there were so many who brought the dimension of the spiritual into a secular environment Joseph was prime minister of Egypt and what an amazing contribution he made bridging that divide between the sacred and the secular not as Senator DeMint mentioned I was in the Navy for 27 years and I was delighted to be in that military organization because as most of you know Jesus was a Navy man ships walking on water although some say he was a Marine but I believe he was a Navy do the extra Jesus correctly he was in the Navy and so 27 years of serving and I still remember having a supervisor he was second in command who was an individual that I did not enjoy being with I must confess confession is good for the soul he rarely spoke a paragraph without plenty of profanity and that's rather aggravating for a person of the cloth well he was writing my evaluation so what did you do well I would take him on in the evening prayer on a ship there is a public address system and in the evening the chaplain offers a prayer they're inclusive prayer for all of the sailors and the executive officer and I were going back and forth as I would be debating him in the prayer and he would of course after the prayer as I was leaving the bridge with the chaplain please report to the executive officer stateroom and I would come come in what are you what's wrong what's wrong sir I said how dare you talk about me in the press sir I mentioned no names I was simply saying that God must be offended by the amount of profanity that is happening on the ship even at the highest level a clever way of bridging the divide between the sacred and the secular but then a new commanding officer came aboard he did not wear his religion on his sleeve he did not even attend the worship services or the Bible studies that I conducted on the ship but after two days of wandering around the ship he had a captain's call this is when the new commanding officer defines reality for the ship and one of the things he said quoting George Washington was that there would be no profanity aboard his ship I was startled no profanity he quoted George Washington who said something about that needing to use profanity was an indication of a limited intellect and so there it was and I honestly believed that there was no way that the executive officer would be able to speak Standard English there was no way this was the end of his career there was absolutely no way he would be able to obey this order this was an order that was just too much for him I had never heard him speak more than a sentence or two without using profanity but miracle of miracles all of a sudden the language on that ship was clean and it was absolutely amazing the difference that it made because an individual and I don't know how religious he was was able to inject the ethical and the morale into a spiritual into a secular environment my challenge to you if you are a person of faith is to find a way to bridge that divide and to recognize that many times to make a dichotomy between the sacred and the secular is incorrect the Lebanese American poet Khalil Gibran and his wonderful book the Prophet if you've never read it you should it's lyrical and this recluse a prophet was leaving a town called aloo and they asked him to speak about various things speak to us of love he says I'm really not a speaker but then whatever they would ask him to speak about these lyrical soliloquies would come from his lips when love beckons to you follow him though his ways are hard and steep and when the wings of love in fold you yield to him will the sword hidden among his pinions will wound you this man speak to us of children your children are not your children they are the sons and daughters of life's longing for itself they come through you but not from you and though they are with you they do not belong to you and then finally someone said speak to us of religion and he said have I spoken this day of Odell's is not religion all deed and reflection and that which is not deed or reflection a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul I think first Corinthians 10:31 captures what we should be doing if we are going to make sure that who we are as spiritual beings follow us into the workplace 1st Corinthians 10:31 says whether you eat or drink or whatever you do do it all for the glory of God it is basically challenging us to glorify God in our behavior whether we are at work whether we are at home wherever we are and whatever we do we should strive to glorify God and I want to make just a few suggestions on how to do that the first suggestion is to be salt and light now some of you heard the Great Communicator Ronald Reagan talked about America as a shining city upon a hill he was actually paraphrasing Matthew 5:16 where Jesus said you the light of the world a city set upon a hill cannot be hidden we ought to be salt and light if we are to glorify God in the workplace now salt makes food palatable that's been a lot of time in South Carolina pastoring alumnus of the University of South Carolina at Sumter but yeah I I cannot imagine grits without salt I shudder I shudder at the thought of grits without salt your presence in the workplace bringing who you are as a spiritual being and glorify God and all you do should make the workplace more palatable people should not be high-fiving one another when you have a sick day okay you should instead make the workplace a more pleasant environment be salt salt in the days before refrigeration also preserved food and your presence in the workplace bringing who you are as a spiritual being should make the workplace a more secure environment you recall in Genesis 18 Abraham interceding for Sodom and Gomorrah you know God if they're at least 10 people there will you spare the city James chapter 5 16 says the effectual fervent prayers of the righteous avail much when you can't do anything else you can always pray and there is power in your prayer so be salt by making the workplace more secure with your intercession be salt by making the workplace a more palatable place and be light illuminate illuminate make a difference by the insights you bring based upon the knowledge you have of Sacred Scripture and many times you know you don't give chapter and verse of course but simply paraphrasing a biblical insight will help you to be a force for good particularly we particularly when in the workplace people are facing right vs. right conundrums is very easy to solve right versus wrong conundrums but the right versus right conundrums of the difficult ones to solve that is one of the reasons why we are challenged in the legislative branch because many of the issues not all of them but many of the issues debated in the chamber involved right vs. right conundrums truth versus loyalty long term versus short term justice vs. mercy right vs. right the individual versus the community and you a person of faith with revelatory knowledge can illuminate that environment in the same way that Joseph was able to give illumination to Pharaoh and Daniel in Daniel chapter 5 a 70-year governmental Korea was able to give illumination to Nebuchadnezzar nabonidus Belshazzar and then later Cyrus and and Darius of the medo Persian empires be salt and light in your workplace second witness without words and that's tough to pull off because a lot of us are good talkers but we don't back up our talk with our actions and if you congruent your actions should be the key thing that you focus on Francis of Assisi said preach the gospel everywhere you go when necessary use words so you a force for good in the workplace can make a difference without saying anything Paul put it this way in second Corinthians 3 3 you are a living letter to be read by all who see you a living letter Edgar yes put it another way he said I'd rather see your sermon than hear it any day I'd rather it should walk with me than merely tell the way the eyes are better pupils and more willing than the ears fine counsel is confusing but example always clear and best of all the teachers are the ones who live their Creed for to see good put in action is what everybody needs I soon can learn to do it if you let me see it done I can watch your hands in action but your tongue too fast and they run and the lectures you deliver may be ever wise and true but I'd rather get my message by observing what you do witness without words finally if you are going to bridge that divide between the sacred and the secular live to serve your focus should be about servant laborer or servant leadership max Dupree wrote a wonderful book the leadership is an art and in that book he said there are three responsibilities of leadership but first is to define reality the leader projects the vision for those who are working in a particular organization the last responsibility of the leader is to make sure that there's an orderly transition from the organization to retirement or wherever the person is going after he or she leaves to say goodbye in a dignified way that's why and the navy we have what we call hail and farewells and you've got to be a bale and farewell to say goodbye to folks even though you didn't particularly care for but in between says Dupree the leader is a servant how can I serve and it is this proclivity for service that should make all of the difference in the world are you a servant Paul put it this way in first Corinthians Sheriff before think of yourself as a servant and a steward of the mysteries of God am i serving one of the last speech is made by actually was a sermon but it was made by Martin King the last sermon that he preached he ended it by talking about what he wanted said at his funeral and he said if any of you are around when it comes my time to meet my day I don't want a long funeral and if you get somebody to deliver the eulogy tell him not to talk too long tell him not to mention that I've won a Nobel Peace Prize that isn't important tell him not to mention that have won three or four hundred other awards that isn't important tell him not to mention where I went to school because I want somebody to be able to say in that day that Martin Luther King jr. tried to give his life serving others I want them to be able to say that Martin Luther King jr. tried to love somebody I want them to be able to say that I did try to feed the hungry to clothe the naked to visit those who were in prison I want them to say that I tried to be right on the war question I want them to be able to say that I tried to love and to serve humanity and then he ended as every Baptist preacher has to do with a little bit of lyrical intonation a little bit we call it whooping in my tradition I won't do that because I don't want to frighten anybody he said yes if you must say that I was a drum major say that I was a drum major for justice say that I was a drum major for truth say that I was a drum major for righteousness and all of the other shallow things of life will not matter I won't have any money to leave behind he said I won't have any of the fine luxurious things of life to leave behind but I just want to leave a committed life behind and that is what each of us can do if we will bridge the divide between the sacred and the secular if we assault and light wherever we are if we witness without words if we live to serve in the words the M writer will become true if I can help just one somebody as I pass along then my living shall not be in vain do you think we could arrange for this every Monday at noon gentlemen we will be glad to take questions we have a microphone and if you will be so kind as to introduce yourself and make your question in the form of a question we will be happy to recognize you we'll start down here in front thank you so much chaplain black your words have inspired us I would like to ask in light of recent events breitbart just published a piece about the Pentagon tapping an anti-christian extremist for religious tolerance policy and along with that the course to make military chaplains accept gay marriage and push that in in the military environment how do you see a committed Christian being able to stand up against things that might be considered religious persecution in the United States and politics today well the military has religious accommodation policies that you would have to eliminate in order to pull that off and the religious accommodation directives make it clear that a clergy person cannot be forced to do anything that he or she is not comfortable with doctrinally military chaplains serve in a context called institutional duality they are endorsed by a church so they have it they receive an ecclesiastical endorsement as well as being commissioned by the the military and a withdrawal of an ecclesiastical endorsement would remove the militant would remove the chaplain from his position as as a chaplain so that there are there are safeguards right now that would have to be removed I I can see many military chaplains having some problems because to preach the passages of Paul with exegetical integrity would mean being accused of of engaging in hate speech so this is a challenge that I think we're going to have to deal with going forward net Nass worth with the Christian Post when you talk about being salt and light and witnessing without words I hear you talking about Christians being more of a quiet witness but I wonder what when is it appropriate for Christians to be more of a loud witness and things like protests and boycotts you know like we saw there in the civil rights movement or today with like ocean protest or boycotting certain companies and things like that so how did Hashi christians decide when when to be a quiet witness versus when they it's appropriate to be loud well aristotle wrote a marvelous book called the rhetoric and he said to persuade you need a tripod of three things and he used greek words ethos pathos and logos ethos is being perceived as ethically congruent and that's what that's what witnessing without words is all about the problem is we are often loud before we have the prelude of the silent witness of our integrity and of our our sensitivity particularly to the marginalized and so I think yes there is a time for a louder witness but that should be preceded by a lot of loving a lot of serving the civil rights movement was actually a great example of witnessing without words because I participated I was in Alabama in the 60s and desegregated lunch counters i sat in the audience and listened to Martin Luther King jr. speak and we put our bodies on the line without making speeches Martin was our spokesperson but when we faced the billy club of the billy clubs of the police officers and the police dogs we did not say a word and yet aroused the conscience of the nation without words so I think that there is there's a time for louder witness but someone said what you do speak so loudly I can't hear what you say working my way thank you so much Eliot geyser I'm an intern with the foundry here at Heritage I'm curious as to what you think there seems to be to go back to Aristotle for a second politics is supposed to be about justice and society's understanding of justice seems to have been shifting over the last couple of years maybe longer away from the idea of justice that is understood by people of faith in particularly the Christian faith such that you now see conflicts arising where people say my conscience precludes me from paying for this procedure or this kind of insurance the HHS mandate says justice as defined by the politics of the country requires you to pay for this sort of thing at what point does there become a separation between that secular definition of justice and the religious definition of justice such that the people on that religious side start to become excluded from political participation and how do you prevent that sort of thing from happening well I think Jesus's statement rendered a Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God I think that that's a critical part when you're wrestling with issues like that but I think also that a person has to have sufficient integrity where there is there oh there are lines that you won't cross and you have to have the courage like Shadrach Meshach and Abednego here's an unjust law bow or burn and they basically say in Daniel chapter 3 verse 17 our God is able to deliver us he will deliver us but even if he doesn't and they're talking to the king we would rather bow than burn so they had a commitment I don't know where Daniel was at the time I hope he was out of the country but they had that the willingness to do that in Daniel chapter 6 we see an example of Daniel going to the lion's den rather than obeying and unjust law the whole civil rights movement was based upon this notion of disobey unjust laws that's what Gandhi did and so we have a history of non-violent direct action and we certainly have enough people of faith that there are creative ways that we can tackle any challenge that we face and I think when but we have to be a lot more creative in in that approach having a team effort wonderful verse in Luke 10 the harvest is white but the laborers a few so what do you do pray that the lord of the harvest will send forth laborers we need more committed laborers that's why Daniel had Shadrach Meshach and Abednego to help him in his challenging situation have that line that you won't cross and it doesn't take a lot of folk to make a difference it really does it second Chronicles 7:14 if my people called by my name will humble themselves and pray seek my face then will I hear from heaven forgive their sins and heal their lands there is a powerful force and that little remnant that knows how to speed dial heaven El Milliken a.m. media I was interested in your understanding or your and I was I was also curious if you got any instruction about this when you started your position for the US government the the origins of prayer in the Congress my understanding was that really was started by Benjamin Franklin who you know I believe he did have various religious beliefs throughout his life but at the time he proposed that it seems to me he was a probably a deist you know he wasn't someone that believed in you know the same God that I believed in you know as a Christian and I'm wondering how do you see prayer and how was that you know proposed to you to be used in Cana in Congress I mean it's one thing prayer for a Christian you know or a believer in any religion but they're also someone that may be nominal in that faith or someone that is an agnostic or atheist or deist well Franklin was in 1787 at the Continental Congress but prayer came to the Congress in 1789 and interesting enough it came three days before the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof so on the day that the Establishment Clause was proposed there was a prayer and there has for the most part been uninterrupted prayer since 1789 I think Franklin's notion of needing contact with the transcendent is at the foundation of this whole notion of prayer if there I mean we're enjoined in 1st Thessalonians chapter 5 pray continuously or pray without ceasing so we should always be in an attitude of prayer but if there if there's any place on the planet where prayer is needed this Capitol Hill okay I so so so so so I think that the basic it happened in 1789 that the basic thrust was we need to be connected with transcendent and I think that prayer makes a difference it really does the effectual fervent prayers of the righteous avail much chaplain John Hamel with Lamplighter ministries and since you are a Daniel in the Congress urging us in the Ryans down yeah facing him every day we're praying for you I would love to hear just a few examples of where you've seen the hand of God move in Congress related to your intercession well when I first arrived in the Senate in 2003 I had a lady who came to me and asked me to pray for her because she had been diagnosed with inoperable cancer we have a prayer team of several thousand people and we just give the first name and what the problem is well I encountered this lady three or four months later and she was smiling she had begun she had begun to feel so good that she had gone back to her physician and said if this is dying it's not too bad and he had brought in all kinds of experts and bottom line is could find no evidence of cancer at all I ended up eight years later she was 90 delivering the eulogy at her funeral she died but not of cancer died of something else and so an example I believe of James 5:17 saying if there'd be any sick among you pray I'm convinced that debt-ceiling prayers sequester prayer we stay on our knees you hear me and time and time again sometimes at the eleventh hour we've seen God step in and and and make a difference I've had senators say to me chaplain something you said in the prayer caused me to change my vote I don't know what it was when I'm sure the Holy Spirit has a way of touching hearts and it probably was something that I didn't intend to be directed at but God has a sense of humor so you know that's a good book for me to write in fact of the way there's a you know that the time would not permit me to tell you that many many times I have seen a prayer answered in the US Senate you said my question that there are two corners North Carolina or South Carolina and one of the corner Bobby and you know their parents are Hindu and Sikh and in the case one of them win the White House and then their banners want to have their own guard on Capitol Hill how would you react because your emphases very justifiable about prayer this place does need lot of prayers but then Muslim might have their own demand and you know most American think their God is very very violent so how would you reconcile so many religions and so many kind of prayers and then having some time at some point Hindu having different kind of you know they have more than one God and they have statue for those gods representing those God on Capitol Hill thanks well Ari now in a famous Roman Catholic writer tells the story of the Exodus and the children of Israel going through the Red Sea and of course they go across on a dry land and when Pharaoh tries to follow the the waters come and the army of Pharaoh is drowned the angels in heaven are looking at God this is now and of course writing and tears are coming down the face of God and the angel said God why are you crying your children the Israelites have just been freed from Egyptian slavery for centuries of slavery and God responds yes but my children the Egyptians died so I think you know our efforts to put God in a box to define the transcendent that it's we're like children building sandcastles and I think that we're going to discover that there's a greater unity of divinity that surrounds this planet than we realize so you know call him by whatever name you want to call him I believe he has the whole world in his hands hey Sean paired with In God We Trust congressman Walter Jones has been introduced in a bill for years to simply let military chaplains in the prayer abroad with in Jesus name we pray can you give them gage the morale of military chaplains abroad and give me your opinion on that well I spent 27 years in the Navy retired a two-star Admiral I have prayed during that 27 year ministry thousands of times in the name of Jesus in a worship service in my Bible studies when I'm ministering to the sick so military chaplains on a daily basis pray in the name of Jesus but because we are in a pluralistic environment of ministry there are times when a more inclusive prayer should be prayed for instance three Marines have been killed two of them a Muslim for me to pray Christocentric prayer a christ-centered prayer would probably be inappropriate would probably not be best I won't say inappropriate all when I'm praying over the 1mc I've got Hindus I've got and I'm facilitating for them and I pray a prayer where you're on the ship there's no way you can jump I mean you can jump overboard if you don't want to hear me but you've got to hear that prayer there's nowhere for you to hide for me to pray a very Father God in the mighty name of Jesus that name that is above every you know would probably be a little over the top so the the times when military chaplains cannot pray in the name of Jesus in my opinion but from my experience those times were few and far between do it under sit down baptize folk the whole nine yards so and then I talked about religious accommodation if a chaplain comes from a religious tradition where he or she says well you know if I don't say that main you know it's not a prayer do you say fine okay we'll get someone else to say the prayer for this particular venue no problem at all even as there are some chaplains who sprinkle and others of course correctly immersed no just joking I knew the senator DeMint with this I had to throw that in baptism by immersion but you know or some baptize babies and some do you know no problem if you're not comfortable with that we'll get someone else to do that but you know you can stay committed to your conscience and and follow it so I don't see it as as a serious problem from from my from my perspective of 27 years of labored in the military hi my name is Antonio Chavez I'm a science teacher and I read in democracy in America Tocqueville said that religion was essential to the success of the American democracy because he felt that democracy would unleash a lot of selfish instincts and people and he felt that religion would keep those instincts in check and when you look at what's happening to Europe the kind of Europe versus in the United States what do you think about that well there's debate about whether or not Alexis de Tocqueville actually said that and there's also the date about feel the the famous Alexis de Tocqueville quote America is is strong because America is good when America ceases to be good America will cease to be strong however if he didn't say he should have said it because he it's basically a paraphrase of Proverbs 14:34 righteousness exalts a nation but sin is a reproach to any people sin is an equal opportunity destroyer sin does not care that your name is America and if you look at empires that have imploded Babylon the medo-persian Empire Alexander the Great and Greece Rome Gibbons has a book on the decline and fall of the Roman Empire you know sin can destroy so I think I think that people of faith should recognize the contribution they make to national security and I I talked about Genesis 18 Abraham negotiating for the survival of sodom and gomorrah and he he started up around 35 and went on it down to 10 he figured there's got to be at least 10 people 10 righteous poking ho down after all you got lot he's got daughters wife if he's doing any kind of work he's got something they've got fiance's couldn't even find 10 okay so I believe you know Alexis de Tocqueville is on target that we do need to appreciate goodness and celebrate goodness and be willing to die for goodness because it's a national security issue anyone from my staff we do of course have copies of both of his books available if you would like to have them signed by chaplain black I'm sure he would be glad to talk with you further while I do have the podium I do want to thank you chaplain black for your service to the nation during your career in the Navy thank you for your service to the Senate where we know they need as much help as they can get and thank you for your wonderful example you have an open invitation to come visit us any time thank you and thank you all you

Channel: The Heritage Foundation

Views: 9,108

Rating: 4.5999999 out of 5

Keywords: Heritage, Heritage Foundation, GOP, Conservative, Republican, Barry Black, Senate, Brett Bernhardt, Jim DeMint, Chaplain, United States Senate, Chaplain Barry Black, Religion, Christianity, Family and Religion, Faith

Id: FMxgr5_WSu4

Length: 46min 26sec (2786 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 30 2013