Purnam - The Full | Swami Sarvapriyananda

thank you so much [Music] lead us from the unreal to the real leaders from Darkness unto light lead us from death to immortality om peace peace peace Namaste and welcome another brilliant day here in Manhattan today the subject is purnam it's a Sanskrit word which means the the whole the full infinite Limitless this actually forms a pair with last Sunday's talk which was uh which was titled shunyam which means the void or emptiness so emptiness and fullness um in fact just a little correction from for last um Sunday's talk I mentioned a particular book Progressive stages of meditation on emptiness and I said I said somebody who had recommended it to me but it turns out somebody else had recommended and he wrote no no it was me I recommended it to you so it was uh Jackson Peterson who was a Tibetan who is a Tibetan Buddhist master and teacher in this country and abroad also many places abroad so we are very grateful to him because that book really put a lot of things in place for me Poonam why I selected this as this is sort of for me this is a word which which encompasses the vision of vedanta in its entirety and its depth for me it is particularly evocative because when I was growing up a little boy in um in a city called bhubaneshwar on the eastern coast of India we had a we have a very beautiful ramakrishna Mission ashram there which was founded in all the way back in 1918 by Swami brahmananda the first president of the ramakrishna order the whom Shri ramakrishna considered his spiritual son beautiful ashram and very very deep spiritual vibrations there now as a little kid I still one of the memories of the ashram that I have is going upstairs to the shrine the shrine was on the roof it still is but in the old Shrine when you go up there this is about 40 years ago first you enter through a room you used to in those days and that rumors a bare little room very spares and um I could I can still feel the cool floor on my bare feet and the sunlight streaming through the open windows it's a very beautiful garden outside and very silent except for sometimes you know chirping of birds and there was just this one Mantra written on a wooden board hung up on the wall that's all that there was nothing else in that room as far as I remember and that Mantra said in Sanskrit the famous Shanti Mantra from the upanishads which means om that is the infinite Brahman that means I'll explain that so that is the infinite Brahman this this manifested universe is also purnim is the is that in is that infinite Brahman is Brahman and from that purnam this Poonam has come from that fullness this fullness has arisen Berg in this manifested universe if you recognize the infinite here then the infinity alone remains or the fullness alone remains so if you put it together what does it say it says that is the full this is this universe is also the full and this fullness has come from that fullness and in this if you recognize the infinity then that fullness or that Infinity alone remains om peace peace peace now I don't know how much I understood of that I was a little kid I knew some Sanskrit because we're studying it in school so I was able to read it but it was very evocative for me I don't know if it's just some kind of memories of past life or something but I always was fascinated I remember before going to the shrine I would stop and stare and just soak in the sunlight and the Stillness in that room and that Mantra on the on the wall um it's why it's always remain my favorite uh you know peace chant Shanti mantra today I want to go a little bit into it it it's the the deepest truth about vedanta about Hinduism I think it's it's really great to reflect upon it a little bit let's go into this in the profound depths of this Mantra a little bit before we go ahead foreign the Sanskrit the Sanskrit words other means that something that is not perceptible you don't see it hear it smell it taste it touch it you can't comprehend it with your intellect you don't have any information about it it's something that you take on belief you know for example God is in heaven I don't see God I don't understand it quite too not too well um it's beyond my perception Beyond creation that in Sanskrit there's a word for it means beyond the beyond the range of our senses it's Supra sensible so that is full or Infinity that which is parocha beyond our range of our senses which we take on belief maybe our religion has told us about it maybe um you know we sort of believe in it some kind of transcendent reality and then it says this one which we perceive right now this world is also is full this is also full now the concentrate on the words means this perceptible Universe which we are experiencing all the time other means that Transcendent which we don't experience and we sort of either believe in it or don't believe it in any case even if you believe in it you take it on faith and now see what the Mantra is doing it's so subversive it just says both that which is transcendent and that which is right now here empirically perceived which you're experiencing all the time they're the same thing by using the word purnam that's Burnham this is purnam it's exactly the same thing what has what has been done here is parocha and um this pratyaksha pratyaksha means Direct these two words are brought together and both are called purnam by that what is done is there's a Sanskrit word negated the remoteness and the immediate perceptibility both of them are negated by showing that it's one reality go a little further if that sounds cryptic and difficult it'll become easier but it's it is a very profound subject if you go a little further the next part of the Mantra says from that fullness this fullness has arisen if you want to put it in the language of theistic religion God created the world that's what is being said God created the world God created the world from that fullness this fullness has arisen in the Sanskrit grammar of it poor not that's the fifth case end ending from that fifth case always from that means cause a cause is being pointed out and this is the effect that is the creator this is the created and again the Mantra does something subversive it says that and this that cause and this effect are both poornam they are not both they are the same purnam by saying that what has been done causality is negated from that this has been created the Mantra is saying no no nothing has been created that alone exists and we are experiencing it as this but this poornam this Limitless this whole that alone exists there is no difference between cause and effect see this is very profound because in in traditional theistic religion the dualistic religion what is said God is the cause the Creator and this universe is the created dualistic dualistic in the sense of two different realities so the cause is real the dualistic religion will say cause Israel there are dualistic schools of vedanta which will say the cause God is real and this manifested universe is also real two realities and they're separate the two realities God has created a separate Universe it's not that they are the same they're non-dualists the advaithin will ask here a question is that see if that is real nobody doubts that the Creator God Brahman Israel neither the dualist nor the non-dualist doubts both agree there is some cause Brahman which is real some reality Brahman it's real now the non-dualist asks this question to the dualist if that is real and something has come from that something other than that has come if something is other than reality what does it have what happens to it it becomes unreal becomes false in fact when my dear duelist when you claim that the world is a separate reality created by a Creator God it's equivalent to claiming the world is false because it's other than the real God which I and you both of us agree whereas what the advaithan says is that um that Poonam and this purnam the cause Burnham and the effect purnum they are both one and the same there is no cause and effect this is the deepest conclusion which you find in texts like the Mandu kakarika for example negation of causality there's apparent causality and there is something which appears as this because they look different they are experienced differently it's like the gold made into the ornaments the clay made into the pot now you'll say clay has produced a pot which is a produced apart is there a part apart from the clay when you if you look at the part it's Clay and clear throughout if you look at the golden ornament it's golden gold throughout and the claim of this Mantra is that if you examine this world which appears to be a world of duality of diversity of continuous change of ups and downs of Pleasure and Pain of life and death if you actually examine if we have eyes to see we will see that absolute truth alone exists here sachidan and alone exists here see what I'm saying is this um I remember asking this great Swami who passed away several years ago Swami nirmukhtananda ji he was a disciple of Swami shivananda I believe he was a spiritually very Advanced Soul many of us did believe so once I asked him that he was sitting if you have gone to belur much the main Monastery there on the bank of the ganga you've seen the Temple of the holy mother mashada so you're sitting there and facing towards the Temple of Swami Vivekananda he was sitting there and he was at that time in his late 90s so this Swami I bow down to him and I asked this question so how does the enlightened one look upon this in this world is it that there is Brahman and you know existence Consciousness place and this world is like a kind of a shadow you know then he thought for a moment and he said no why should that be there is only one this idea that there is a reality and there is a falsity that there is a falsity this comes this kind of this still dualistic thinking this comes from an analysis you know here in this world of appearances I am an ally analyzing and finding out the reality and so this world remains as an appearance reality and appearance but they are not two but he told me why why should that be there is only one and of course I had to push so I I asked him all right I didn't quite get what he was saying all right but is that how you are seeing this I was trying by trying to find out is he going to confirm that he's enlightened is that how you are seeing the world right now are you seeing this display right now you know as one Divine reality and he replied with another story he said there's another very great monk Swami buddhananda and Swami jagadan and the disciple of the holy mother jagadranti was regarded as an enlightened person in his own time this was in the 1950s probably um so one day this Swami buddhananda who was in charge of ramakrishna mission in Delhi he asked Swami jagadan apparently well sir people say you're enlightened are you enlightened and the Swami replied if I say yes will you believe me I immediately understood what that's why he was trying to tell me I bowed down to him he said yes sir I've understood Swami so this is a question about the so if you're saying are you trying to say that this itself is Brahman what we are experiencing doesn't look like it this is this question about the reality of the world and the falsity of the world there are schools of vedanta which say the world is real there are schools of vedanta like advice which you're speaking about which say the world is false and there's a big quarrel about it is the world real or false is it a reality in itself or is it an appearance really speaking that question is misguided SRI ramakrishna was asked once that is the world false like advaita vedanta would have it I would say um sudama Krishna said why should the world be false that is a step in vedantic inquiry in Bengali he said in the step in vedantic inquiry now what is it's a very nuanced reply he did not say the world is not false it's real you didn't say that you didn't say of course the world is false he said no when you say the world is false he knows what's in the mind of the person who's asking the person is asking from an advaithic perspective non-dual perspective see that's a step in non-dual inquiry Katha in Bengali he said but that's not remarkable also SRI ramakrishna's observation it's a vicharded Katha it's not remarkable because um itself advaithic texts like the panchodashi the classic of post shankara dweta they also say the world is false and I'll tell you exactly what they say vidyaranya Swami the author of the text panchadashi he says what is the status of the world is it real or is it false and who is saying this a follower of ADI shankaracharya committed non-dualist author of The non-dual Classic panchadashi he says that this world he says to the to the ordinary man in the street you know he says vastavi it's absolutely real it can't be ignored it's real vastavi means vastu real to the philosopher to The Inquirer he says it is it cannot be classified as real ultimately or as unreal that's the definition of falsity something that appears to us like the Rope attack the snake in the Rope it appears to us like the water in the Mirage it appears to us but it's not real in itself there's no real water in the Mirage there's no real snake when you when it's actually a rope so something that appears but does not exist you can't deny that it appeared to you for a moment you thought it was something else so that's called falsity it's like a lie somebody tells a lie it's not the truth but it's not nothing either it didn't keep quiet see there are three things telling the truth and keeping quiet and telling a lie so when somebody tells a lie the person did say something it's not nothing but it's not the truth similarly falsity is when we experience the reality as something other than what it is so experience the Rope as a snake it's not you're not experiencing a rope as a rope you experience the desert not as a desert but as an oasis full of water that's a mirage yeah so panchadashi the author of panchadashi vidyaranya Swami says when you inquire with logic when you reason you will come to this conclusion that the world is in appearance it's not nothing but it's not the ultimate truth you can't say it's nothing because it appears to you you experience it all the time but you can't say it's the ultimate truth which is pure Consciousness existence whatever you call it and then he goes on to say this author of panchodashi to the enlightened one so three views the world immense view the Philosopher's View and the enlightened ones view due to the enlightened one he says there is no world there's Brahman alone there's only one non-dual reality just like that Swami told me why should it be two it's only one because I had asked that Swami is it that you see the enlightened one sees absolute reality existence Consciousness please and this word like a shadow sort of hanging around you know and he said no no it's not like that it's one and the one is Brahman or that absolute reality um so we'll see three answers to the question is the world real so the man on the street yes the world is real it's true to the person in a dream whatever he's experiencing in the dream doesn't know it's a dream it's real it's practical it's it's what is being experienced but when you inquire into it it's neither real nor non-existing it's what is called false and for the fully enlightened one it's Brahman Brahman alone exists there's no separate reality called the world and that's what exactly SRI ramakrishna said when sudama Krishna was asked is this world false he said why should it be false that falsity of the world is a stage in inquiry that philosophical inquiry when you do which are you come to this conclusion the world cannot be determined as absolutely real or as completely unreal so what is being said here is if you literally translate it means from the full this fullness has come but if you look a little deeper that is being called the cause is being called purnam and the effect is also being called purnam effectively denying that there is any cause and effect that really nothing has happened it seems to have happened that way that the world seems to have appeared before you something has been produced but actually it is the same reality Burnham in which case what is being said here what's being said here is whatever we are experiencing wherever we are worldly spiritual in whatever sense whatever religion we belong to whatever we are experiencing we dramatic claim is you are experiencing nothing but God Swami Vivekananda said never approach anything except as God because um that's the fact the fact is that there's only one non-dual reality if advaita vedant is true in that case whatever is real must be that one reality because it's non-dual no no second reality if there are multiple realities maybe right I'm experiencing a reality called a world and there is some other reality called God Heaven something else but if it is non-dual then whatever we are experiencing must be that non-dual reality what in other words whatever we are experiencing in the language of religion must be God it's a very why it is profound it's a very capacious idea of the Ultimate Reality what do I mean by that is what this is saying is if it is if it is formless and it cannot be with form it's an incomplete God if it is with farm and you deny that it can never be formless it's an incomplete God if you say it is with Farm but it only has to be God has to be a male form it's an incomplete card always Shiva goes with Shakti and Shakti you cannot say it is only Shakti there's always Shiva in the background if it's only female it is an incomplete card if it's only to be worshiped in a form which is um with a human form it's an incomplete card that's why in sanatana in Hinduism you have God being worshiped as a fish as the main lion in the human form in the male form in the female form in the male and female form together foreign formless but the idea always is if you say it is only formless then it's an incomplete God then comes the Muslim not the Christian and says well God is formless and these Hindus have got it wrong smash these images and destroy the temples it's an incomplete idea of Guardian of God it leads to fanaticism it leads to hatred it leads to violence it is what is called in vedanta in in yoga also Raga dwesha likes and dislikes strong likes and dislikes see what is the problem with strong likes and dislikes practical it's all right people can have preferences will automatically have preferences however deep within we should not hold on to these preferences is ultimately true because if it is a non-dual reality then whatever we are experiencing whether we prefer it whether we don't prefer it whether we love it or whether we hate it it must be the same reality the same Brahman in our friends and in what we consider to be our enemies in people like us and in what we see as people different from us in human beings and in non-human beings in living beings and in non-living things it must be the same background reality somewhere otherwise non-duality cannot be true when we have this idea of non-duality it translates into poornam and that is what you see um you know if you look at the enormous breadth and richness of the sanatana of Hinduism the non-dualistic schools dualistic schools all the different schools how can it be such extraordinary variety can happily coexist with each other even a lot of Hindus don't understand this so they have been occasionally um you know reformed schools no no we must not worship images and therefore let's have a reformed Hinduism without image worship and they were reform movements always that's all right Hinduism is fine with that too SRI ramakrishna came up as a bulwark against this silliness he comes and quite unapologetically he goes and worships an image and the image of Kali in dakshineswar and reaches Enlightenment not just Enlightenment the range and breadth of his spiritual experiences is unparalleled in the history of spirituality show me one other instance of such extraordinary samadhis of such extraordinary mystical experiences of such extraordinary Universe Universal teachings you cannot find another example like that that's why Vivekananda said if image worship can can produce one like ramakrishna worship a thousand images I say so poornam um a capacious idea of the Divine if the Divine is worshiped as Shiva the male form as a Parvati or Durga Kali and you know Lakshmi in the female form as Ganesha if your God cannot be an elephant headed God it's an incomplete God but if your God is only the elephant headed God it's also an incomplete God so where does this extraordinarily capacious idea of divinity come from from poornam it includes all of it last time we did Buddhism and you can say this sounds very different from it that sounds very minimal you know extraordinarily logical and minimal philosophically austere this sounds very maximal inclusive of anything and everything what this does is it frees us from our from thinking that this alone must be right and that cannot be right it frees us from fanaticism it frees us from thinking that only SRI ramakrishna when he one thing he did not like at all he would say again and again in Bengali he said dogmatic attitude he said never set a limit to what God can be never set a limit to the infinitude of that Ultimate Reality that comes from this poornam um the fullness of what is experienced here and there and the cause and in the effect it's the same reality all right I still haven't started now I'm going to if you ask those great philosophers if you give them this poornam idea what would they say they would smile tolerantly and would say that's cute but it doesn't stand to reason you must established it on the basis of reason and experience so that's what advice sets out to do this Vision was there in The Vedas itself this Vision was there of this Poonam this comes from The Vedas but how do you make it a logical philosophy a logical worldview or God view whatever you call it and how do you experience it make it part of your living you know your lived life so here here goes I'll take the advaithic philosophy which establishes this purnam um it says the unique thing about advaita vedanta is that it's not a philosophy or spiritual path which says that is something else to be attained what you get in advaita vedanta is what you have always had something and what you remove in advaita vedanta is something that was never there I always say it sounds like a con job yeah there was this snake oil salesman in the wild west wild wild west and he was arrested and bought before the magistrate by the sheriff on charges of offering cures to non-existent diseases and you know a real cures to imaginary diseases and imaginary cures to real diseases so sounds like that when it says what will you get after all of this you will get what you always had and what will you remove what will you get rid of what will you improve after all of this so what was never there that's what you're going to get rid of in in Sanskrit this is called practice and everything but they mean it practice is attaining what is already attained everything means removing negating curing something that was never there but what does it mean then it is because of our ignorance what is already attained what was always there seems to be not there advaita vedanta says you are Brahman you're not this body not this mind you are Limitless existence Consciousness Bliss and you are that right now whether you know it or not whether you believe it or not whether you do you think you're experiencing it or not says it's right there it's already attained it's just because of ignorance it feels like no I don't know this I don't experience this yeah I don't see this I've told you sometimes about this class I used to attend from a great teacher in the Himalayas in gangotri and sometimes teaching us this Doctrine this this teaching he would say he would look at us and he would say oh monks whether you believe it or not whether you experience it or not the truth is you are Rama your Rama means your God you're one with God and what does it remove samsara I am here in spiritual life because I'm suffering like the Buddha said there is suffering so the first Noble Truth and that has to be removed I am suffering I am going through birth I'm afraid of birth and death this cycle of birth and death I'm terribly afraid of death I'm afraid of old age and sickness I'm afraid of uh Financial ruin and I'm I'm suffering from the miserable behavior of others or from generally the suffering of humanity and other living beings in this world there's so much suffering here I'm suffering and spirituality promises to take me Beyond suffering every religious path gives you a solution in this way you will go beyond suffering you know in samadhi or by going to heaven or something like that and the uh advaithic path tells you that yes this suffering actually what you're thinking it's always removed you are Beyond suffering it's because of ignorance that you think that you're in suffering all right so this sounds very crazy it sounds cool I think Americans will love it so it's kind of counter-intuitive but how do you make sense of it how do we make sense of the fact that right here right now I am that absolute truth and I am beyond suffering and so are we all vedanta starts with experience not extraordinary experience not mystical experience see the the trick there is that someone might promise all of this can be experienced you don't have to believe it but how do you experience it well you put in the hard work of 40 Years of meditation and then maybe you'll experience it if you don't better luck next life that is no good advaita vedanta says what we are talking about is right now it is being experienced now but you don't recognize it you know what it's like um if if you know Jim is here and I don't know who Jim is and I'm looking at him and somebody introduces that's Jim I say oh I see now I get it that's Jim did I see somebody new no I was already looking at him but I just recognized that this is Jim is like that it brings us to see what is already there but we never saw it earlier the beautiful story of the the washerman's Diamond the washer man found a diamond but he didn't know what the diamond was he just thought it's a rock it's an odd looking Rock and in India in a washerman they will take your laundry out to the riverbank and they will slam it on the rocks and they'll wash it they'll get it clean but you'll be horrified at what they do to this to the fabric and then they'll scrub it clean and they use that rock so he used to use this diamond to scrub dirty clothes and he didn't know this was he had got something that could remove all his poverty and but he was curious this rock is different from all other rocks so he let me ask my friend the vegetable seller and the vegetable salad was a little more thoughtful than the washer man and he said well you know this rock uh it sounds it's pretty so I'll give you um in a bag of brinjals for it the washer man did not sell it he took it to somebody else who knew a little more finally he took it to a diamond Merchant and the diamond Merchant said this is the Magnificent Diamond I'll give you millions of rupees for it and so all the washerman's needs were removed his poverty was gone forever now that's a parable the parable points to the fact that we already have the rock but like the washer man we don't know that it's a diamond is like the diamond Merchant who wants to introduce us to it so that all our problems are solved immediately so what is this rock which we all have already right now it is experience in Sanskrit Anu bhava what experience all experience any experience better right now I'm going to begin introducing us to The Rock so follow closely experience when we look at our experience which experience all experience notice one thing about experience all experience has this this structure in every experience you find I am the subject and this is the object subject and object look around right now all the time and right now I am the subject take it in a very naive way don't be too non-dualistic and just in a very straightforward way here I am and the subject and here is the object the objective Universe I can see people I can see chairs and you know the hall I can see the road and the trees outside and the sunlight all of that and I can only not only see I can hear and smell and taste and touch this is I am the subject and I'm experiencing the object what else appears to me without before doing any vedanta just common sense I the subject seem to be this body it is instinctive I am this body and uh it seems to me this world of objects is continuously changing I am sort of unchanging because I have been there since my childhood as far as I remember from babyhood and I guess I will live for some more time so although I am unchanging see the Paradox of it although I feel I am the same one but I feel I'm going to die and this world is continuously changing but I feel this will go on it existed before me until continue to continue to exist after me right that's what we feel instinctively I'm going to die and not only that I am dependent on this world of objects for everything for my pleasure for my entertainment for my very sustenance the world provides me with food without which I would die World provides me with with air without which I would suffocate in a minute the world provides me with shelter and with with friends and with with knowledge with entertainment when I'm bored there is the TV or the internet when I want to study they're not books everything that is good worthwhile and gives me happiness is provided from to by the world or at least even if it's not provided often it's withheld and I am dependent on the world for all my happiness true on the other hand the world also provides me with a lot of suffering there is disease and pain which the world can can inflict upon me and there is a physical pain emotional pain inflicted by the behavior of other people and what's going on in the world all my suffering seems to be caused by the object and all possibility of happiness happiness and nice you know Pleasant is the object and dependent helplessly upon the object and very soon I'll be crushed out of existence dead this is what appears to me in inexperience now bring vedanta into play vedant introduces the first thing it introduces is a simple observation you are the subject right yes and you experience right yeah and what do you experience the object that's true notice that the subject and the object cannot be the same thing object is what you experience and subject is youth experiencer notice also Consciousness or awareness is always on the side of the subject I the subject am conscious of what of the object and of also myself so Consciousness is on my side you might say why not why can't conscious meal be on the object side after all there are so many conscious beings but notice when we look at the object whatever we see here smell taste touch they are objects but not consciousness I can see you I can see your body I can hear your voice I can see your behavior if I'm a telepath I can look into your mind and see your thoughts or experience your thoughts but I can never objectify your Consciousness your awareness so the subject is that Which experiences and is separate from the object and the subject is also conscious the object Consciousness is never object it is always the subject now if we apply that then we see something remarkable happening the first result which emerges from it is when we look at ourselves the subject we notice what seemed what seemed instinctive to us that I am the subject where is the subject here but then here this body am I not aware of the body yes I am and the principle is whatever you are aware of is an object and you are the subject which is awareness or at least awareness is part is is on your side so if I'm aware of the body the body by definition must be an object like this this like the clothes that I'm wearing object then in this case this body it is an object in fact it's an object to all my senses I can see it I can touch it I can smell it taste it even here they hear it you know the sounds of the heartbeat or your tummy rumbling All My Five Senses objectify the body the body and begin to discover is an object just like things out there it's a thing it's a remarkable thing it's an extraordinary biological machine hmm but it's still a thing and anything that is an object to make to Consciousness is it cannot be the subject till now I thought I the subject I am this one but I now realize this is the world of objects and part of it is the body and it's common sense you don't need vedanta for it it's just a little bit of reflection shows yes just as this body is an object to my doctor the Doctor Who prods it and probes it and scans it and tests it it's an object it's a biological living object for me also it's a biological living object it may be the vehicle I'm embodied in right now but still it's an object and to me the Consciousness quite palpably so in that case I am not literally the body the body is there I'm not denying it I seem to be embodied in this body I seem to be you know to enclosed proximity with this body it's there but I am not literally it not only that if I am this conscious subject I my experiences go on without the experience of the body let me repeat that my experiences go on for example in dreams when I fall asleep the body is there on the bed and sleeping I still continue to have experiences my dreams pleasant dreams nightmares all of that continues and there's no no part of the dream is the body sleeping on the bed I've completely forgotten it what am I saying our conscious experience as subjects can go on without reference to this physical body that's all I'm saying that also goes to reinforce the idea that I as a conscious subject am not literally the body my conscious experiences can go on without experiencing the body you might say wait just a minute you're pulling a fast one because after all you the conscious being this conscious subject is being generated by the body the body is the reality and the body the brain and the nervous system are generating you the so-called subject Consciousness which is dreaming so you you actually don't exist apart from the body you are not a separate reality apart from the body you are just something that's an epiphenomenon a product of the body processes in the body but that's not established at all forget vedanta even in hard science that's what's called the hard problem of consciousness you have that right now there is just simply no way of reducing our first person experience as subjects as Consciousness to the processes in the brain that's the whole issue the Hot Topic in Consciousness studies so we will go with this I am Consciousness I continue to exist in dreams also without reference to the body so I cannot literally be the body even further even our minds they're also objects thoughts feelings emotions ideas memories all of them I experience if I experience them then it's an object I am the experiencing consciousness this distinction between mind and Consciousness pretty much under well understood in Buddhism sankhya yoga advaita not understood in modern Consciousness studies still if you ask person in Consciousness studies what is it that you are studying they will give a vague answer like Consciousness mind emotion ideas memories perceptions all of that together but no no now we have this analytic knife to distinguish between Consciousness and the mental objects thoughts emotions ideas in fact what we consider to be our personality I mean a person might say that I really literally don't think I'm a bundle of flesh and blood but I am a person I have a personal history I have thoughts feelings emotions ideas this is who I am but all those thoughts feelings emotions ideas are also objects some of them were not there a little while ago some of them have come up in your awareness now some of them will fade away over years so you continue what is you that continues it can't be a thought thoughts are they come and go just like that it can't be a memory they arise and fade away it can't be a bundle of memories also you are that bare Consciousness which continues through the arising and disappearing of thoughts and emotions and ideas so I am not even the mind your mind is there the person is there but I am the Consciousness which is dressed in the mind and dressed in the person and dressed in the body vedanta gives a rather subtle um uh you know a little little bit of reasoning to prove this it says that in deep Sleep as we go from dreams to deep sleep do you still exist or not now one person one might say I don't exist in deep Sleep it's nothing it's just I'm not there but then you'd be put in a very strange position of saying that every if I don't exist in deep sleep and I can cannot deny that there is a phenomenon called deep sleep then in that case every time I wake up I'm created a new I pop out of existence when I fall asleep and I pop into existence when I wake up it's very strange I nobody will accept that it's against common sense it's against law the law says that you're the one who went to sleep and the one who woke up is one in the same person continue to exist it's much better to say that you know there's some kind of sleep mode like computers have so we went into a kind of hibernation no activity no no experience of objects but you existed and if you are that Consciousness you existed advaitha puts forward an interesting proposition what happens in deep sleep general anesthesia coma is that you continue to exist completely unaffected as this pure awareness but no object is presented to you it's like life light in deep space if you look at deep space it looks dark but it's full of light streaming from the Sun it's only when there's some object to reflect that light suddenly you see something flashing and Shining like a comet racing through the solar system you can see the brilliant display of the tale of the Comet but the comet doesn't come with his internal lighting it's just light from the sun which is being reflected by the tail of the Comet and you see the brilliant display there similarly if all objects are removed there's nothing to see outside for because you have fallen asleep you're not seeing hearing smelling tasting touching not even aware of the body not even dreaming deep sleep no physical objects no mental objects just blank that's deep sleep that doesn't mean Consciousness is gone so advaita says in deep Sleep it's not an absence of Consciousness it's a consciousness of absence it's not that awareness is gone but you are aware of only blankness and absence what comes out when you wake up is just the appearance of these objects so therefore I am not even the mind because I continue as Consciousness even the mind is gone in deep Sleep anesthesia coma so this one consciousness Which experiences through the mind and body the physical body and the external objects through the Mind dream objects mental objects and when mind and body are not appearing just the absence of the Mind and Body this one continuous consciousness can he die so what changes and dies objects all the time by our own experience but Consciousness itself can it die if it was generated by the brain it could die because the brain will be will die after some time in the death of the body but if you say it cannot be generated by the brain heart problem you know care of the heart problem of consciousness how will it die it requires change but Consciousness itself is unchanging are we supposed to believe that consciousness seems to be changing all the time and early in the morning I'm a little sleepy and then I have a cup of coffee and then I'm more conscious well vedanta would say what was sleepy was the mind and what became more more sharp and alert is the mind after a cup of coffee not Consciousness itself Consciousness revealed you as the Sleepy mind Consciousness revealed the alert mind Consciousness was not sleepy or alert it was shining self same shining Consciousness there's a logical reason why I'm saying that Consciousness cannot change why if it changes and you can speak about it you can describe it anything that you can speak about describe observe is an object to Consciousness then the change must be in the object not in consciousness if it was in Consciousness it could not be objectified but one might say that all right let Consciousness change but we cannot see it you can we cannot experience it then why talk of it at all that which can never be known why postulate it so there is this reasoning which shows that Consciousness logically cannot change pure Consciousness bear awareness cannot change changes that which appears to consciousness the object changes The Limited things changes the world of objects continuously changes that's why we have the intuitive feeling even when we are not doing vedanta we have this intuitive feeling I am the same one from babyhood to teenage to middle age to old age somehow I am the same one you have this intuitive feeling so if your Consciousness cannot change how can it die how can it die in vedanta Consciousness is said to be unborn and undying if I am unborn and undying I have no fear of death I the Consciousness have no fear of death remember what we felt like earlier I am entirely dependent on the world for all the goodies and I'm scared of the world for all the baddies which come from the world now this one consciousness think of this Consciousness do a mental experiment now without reference to the world you're not seeing anything hearing anything smelling tasting touching anything you're not aware of the body imagine in deep Sleep you're not thinking anything you're not remembering anything suppose all memories of your personality have been erased you have left it aside no awareness of the external world no memories no thoughts no sense of I even just the bear awareness this bear awareness what does it want does it want as you say nothing are you with me some of you you can you're following it wants nothing because one thing comes with activity of the Mind right what does it or whom does it hate nothing what does it expect what is its guilt sorrow regret nothing that comes with the activity of the Mind what is it waiting for what God to appear what samadhi to be attained what enlightenment event what is it waiting for nothing it is deathless it is Beyond Desire is beyond suffering Beyond wanting it is timeless because time becomes obvious only when the mind starts working space becomes obvious only when the senses start working you see even when advaita vedanta says Brahman is all pervading there's already accepting space you have accepted space then you say it's all pervading meaning Brahman is eternal and would this have a great objection to that that something is eternal but that's only after you have accepted time then you find a division between all objects are changing continuously so Brahman must be Eternal but even time and space are appearances in in Consciousness thanks to the mind this one consciousness it is deathless it's birthless it is complete in itself it does not want anything at all does it want Enlightenment this Consciousness itself no some of you are not confident if you think about it just your thought experiment you'll say no if it's something like that is there it will not want enlightenment and if I am that I don't want enlightenment and this one Consciousness someone might say yes but that's a very kind of abstract thing no word no body no mind and then there's some bear awareness is not our usual worldly experience but wait a minute right now what you call the usual worldly experience is that awareness they are here now think about it this way are you aware right now you'll all say yeah we are aware we're seeing you how do you know we are having experiences we are seeing you all right close your eyes you're not seeing me anymore you're not seeing anything anymore are you still aware what do you think I can't see your responses you have to say yes yes I'm still aware and similarly if I plug my ears in a sensory deprivation tank I don't see anything here smell taste touch anything would I still be aware yeah I'd still be aware I'd be thinking when is this going to end and if I stop thinking there no thoughts no memories no ideas no desires would I still be there would that awareness would be there logically yes because those are objects if I drop them why would the subject disappear but it's not experiencing anything but it's still awareness is there even if I drop the sense of I the awareness just drop that also the awareness would still continue and that awareness which is there in the absence of world Body Mind is also there right now in fact if you don't see you still exist as awareness if you don't think you still exist as awareness but suppose just start experiment suppose that awareness itself and not there would you be able to see the experience of seeing the Consciousness that awareness if it were not there be bold just think look at your experience I the awareness shining I'm aware of thoughts through the thoughts I'm aware of the Body Mind through the body mind I'm aware of this uh external world if I the awareness were not there would this experience of seeing be possible no with the experience of hearing smelling tasting touching be possible no would the experience of thinking experience of you know the spiritual Quest would any experience be possible if I the awareness were not there no so this awareness because of this we are constantly having all these experiences and forgetting the nature of this awareness we are only using it for all these experiences we're using a diamond to scrub dirty laundry we are using it for seeing hearing smelling tasting we're using it for ambition and greed and fighting and hating we are using it for suffering and we are using it for a spiritual quest to take us Beyond suffering but this awareness in itself is beyond suffering already even in the midst of seeing hearing smelling tasting touching it's beyond suffering what suffers this awareness for getting its real nature in Alliance with the mind and the senses and one body becomes a suffering living being sentient being the awareness recognizing its own nature with the help of the Mind how do you recognize with the help of the Mind recognizing its own nature in the midst of hearing smelling tasting talking living you know doing whatever has to be done in life is free of suffering if I identify myself if I note that I am that bear awareness no matter what happens I'm actually free of suffering in the midst of suffering also SRI ramakrishna an example famous example dying of throat cancer and his disciple a hurry Swami turyananda comes young boy comes at the end says how are you today sir and SRI ramakrishna says oh it hurts I cannot eat and this young man for some reason says to him but sir I see that you're in great Delight the cruel thing to say to a cancer patient SRI ramakrishna bursts out laughing and says oh the Rascal has found me out he admits that this boy is right I am in great place now was he acting that he is in pain and he cannot is is it um he's play acting no no it's true just like any cancer patient suffers he suffered but like most cancer patients do not have this Insight which in the midst of suffering gives it gives him this Oasis Of Peace that I am in my real nature as awareness which is not an object which illumines all objects including this painful object of a Cancer and a tumor and a dying body I am all right I was before this appearance of this cancer cancerous tumor and I'll be there after this this cancerous tumor disappears and the body disappears I am in the middle of that also in the middle of this appearance also I'm fine and it's not just SRI ramakrishna all of us we have that diamond right now which takes us Beyond suffering which is which is itself Beyond suffering which makes possible however the experience of suffering if that awareness but not there would you experience suffering no you would not experience anything so experience a pleasure experience of pain experience of bondage experience of liberation all of them samsara and Liberation Moksha appear and disappear in that that same field of awareness and that awareness you are they say oh this is great advice what I just quoted now is literally a line from Mahayana Buddhism samsar and Nirvana both are phenomena appearing in that Limitless and clear light of the Void you see how it seems to come together one more step is necessary so it right now it seems I have isolated myself as pure awareness I investigated the subject The Seer the experiencer in Sanskrit and I've separated myself from drishya this world I am the subject pure awareness the world appears to me and I'm just this awareness bear awareness but then one might ask first what is this world then what is its relationship to you the awareness and how is this non-duality this seems like complete duality awareness and a world of objects right that's what we have achieved so far no non-duality so far this is sankhya philosophy asankya dualism the world of objects and this awareness now advaita vedanta comes and says the reality which appears as this world of objects and the reality is awareness which you are they're one in the same reality the word that which appears as this universe is called Brahman that which appears as you this awareness is called Atman and advaita vedanta says Atman is Brahman that's the conclusion you are that Atman is Brahman in that book Jim Holt's book um why does the world exist this is not an inquiry into oneself it's an inquiry into this universe and there he goes around asking you know philosophers Nuclear Physics cosmologist like Roger Penrose mathematicians computer scientists people of religion theologians why does this world exist and towards the end of that book he asks a famous American philosopher who passed recently Robert nozik Robert nozick and he asked him so same question and after some discussion the philosopher seems to sort of metaphorically throw up his hands and says who knows maybe the Hindus are right Atman is Brahman so advaita vedanta comes in and says no no that material reality is not apart from you because Atman is Brahman what you found is that bear awareness yourself as this Limitless awareness and what is it is experiencing as this world of objects whose reality is Brahman they are not two Atman is Sam Altman Chad GPT he also said that somebody asked him that um tell us something that you believe which most people don't know don't believe and he said Atman is Brahman how does that solve our problem establish non-duality here is it um as one Great Master said in Hindi he said what does it mean it is true Consciousness is distinct and apart from all the objects you are awareness distinct and apart from all this world of objects changing objects including body and mind but have you ever thought consider this thought is this world of objects sight sound smell taste touch physical body mind is this world of objects distinct from you you are distinct from all of this but is it distinct from you what does it mean so even usually two things are distinct one thing is distinct from the other the second one must be distinct from the first so for example this microphone is distinct from this class so cloth is also distinct from the microphone there are two separate things how do you know one good way of is can you experience one in the absence of the other can you experience the microphone in absence of the cloth yes can you experience the cloth in absence of the microphone yes so they are separate things but if there's something that you cannot experience in the absence of the other you begin to think they maybe it may not be too distinctive they seem different but if one cannot be experienced without the other then there must be some connection somewhere so what now think about it objects appear to you in consciousness you experience objects in Consciousness Consciousness can exist by itself can appear but it can continue in the absence of objects like deep sleep like coma like samadhi Consciousness can continue but can objects be ever experienced without Consciousness what is the principle two things are separate if they can be experienced separately now I'm asking can objects be experienced without Consciousness it's a trick question the moment you say experienced you're already building Consciousness into that question what is experience Consciousness plus subject that's what we are decided earlier objects can never be experienced in the absence of Consciousness in fact the expense absence of Consciousness according to advaita vedanta is an impossibility objects always appear in con two Consciousness in Consciousness makes this remarkable claim if objects cannot be experienced in the absence of Consciousness then the objects cannot be different from consciousness somehow it must be Consciousness itself experiencing itself as objects as one monk put it what's the nature of the eye the nature of the eyes is to see but when a little kid looks up into the sky it's just empty space there is no surface to be seen he imagines it seems to him like an inverted blue bowl like a surface which he's seeing the eyes want to see there's no space to be seen and so it looks like a surface there's no surface to be seen this empty space looks like a surface it gives that example and says Consciousness alone exists according to advaita vedanta the nature of Consciousness is to experience look at our own experience of life nature of Consciousness is to experience there's nothing else except Consciousness to experience and Consciousness cannot be experienced as an object so the great conclusion is these objects so-called objects are nothing but Consciousness itself appearing to itself in that form that you must give credit Consciousness as innate ability of consciousness what the Buddhists call a magical display of the phenomena of samsara and Nirvana when in samsara struggling through spiritual life you recognize the nature of reality as this Limitless awareness then the same samsara now appears to you as Nirvana nagarjuna thousands to two thousand years ago he said there is no distinction between samsara and Nirvana that sounds stunning because the entire project of Buddhism is to go from samsara to Nirvana now you're saying there's no distinction but don't misunderstand it does not mean that the spiritual project is wrong in fact that's the only project that's worthwhile but It ultimately you will see that which presents samsara to you this world of objects that when it's truly recognized this very world of objects will samsara will seem like Nirvana will will be Nirvana to you freedom because that Consciousness it neither requires samsara nor requires Nirvana it's always free foreign I don't even want Moksha Nirvana because I'm of the nature of Consciousness and Bliss I am Shiva I am Shiva that's why the Consciousness itself does not want Moksha it's the sentient being who feels that I am caught in samsara Moksha is not here yet as yet I must struggle for Moksha and Nirvana and then attains to Nirvana by realizing who am I what am I and then sees this entire display as appearing in that Consciousness as nothing but that Consciousness then everything that we experience in this world people um trees and you know Animals Sky and earth and water and fire all of that and our internal Universe of thoughts and emotions and ideas good and bad all of that is nothing but this one Consciousness filling it through and through purdam everything that we encounter is this one Limitless awareness our own nature Carl Atman Brahman the Buddhists called it the clear light of the Void and this is appearing to us in all of these forms and therefore that Transcendent light is this world of subject and object right now in our own experience from that Transcendent light this world purness from that fullness this has arisen what does it mean in you that Limitless awareness this world of objects mind body and external world has arisen in this fullness if you recognize all these objects are nothing but me the pure light alone exists then at least Limitless light alone exists now I don't want to overburden overuse this light metaphor because it can be misunderstood grossly misunderstood somebody said to me that okay so we are all this light so light is photons are we photons so God no not in that sense it's a metaphor I'm not I don't mean that we're actually physical light there it's just bear awareness that's what's compared to light because of the nature it illumines everything and is self-revealing this light illumines physical things and is self-revealing in that sense Consciousness or awareness illumines everything and is self-revealing what seems very far away diamond can be seen very different this is a rock same thing [Music] and it seems that from the rock a diamond has come but it didn't because the Rock and the diamond were the same when does it seem after realizing that it's a diamond oh from The Rock a diamond has a reason it hasn't actually a reason it was always that then Purna ship um in The Rock when you discovered the diamond the diamond alone remains so this is a very profound subject and I just want to leave us with this thought that um in the end if you have attended last week's talk last week's talk at the five schools progressively deeper understanding of none of them are wrong understandings they are deeper and deeper understandings of the the teaching of emptiness the last one of emptiness as the clear light of the Void in which samsara and irwan are appearing and disappearing doesn't it sound remarkably similar to what the goal we have reached right now I know there are serious objections on both sides I have had Buddhist Masters saying no no you can't conflate this with the Hindu advaita view that's wrong that's an eternalism there's one Eternal reality called Brahman you're talking about not really as we saw because Eternal only accepting time as a reality but and on the Hindu side they say no no no you can't conflate poornam and shunyam because sunyam is just nothing it's nihilism which is again an unfair because nagarjuna 2000 years ago strongly says we are not talking about nothing yeah does it exist we say no does it not exist we say no both exist and not exist we say no neither exists nor does not exist we say no the reality is beyond these four logical Alternatives of the Mind the Mind keeps playing Within These logical Alternatives the truth is beyond all these Concepts I got a call from a great traditional creature of vedanta from India from Banaras in alarm saying are you going to in Bengali he said will you will you make it one what's going to happen in this talk are you going to say that in one sense in a sort of ultimate sense yes Swami saradaji the biographer of Sri ramakrishna in Sri ramakrishna the Great Master he writes what they the Buddhists calls it is what we call purnam we're talking about the same thing itself SRI ramakrishna I'll let him have the last word very interesting last word very Poonam type teacher you know who said in every path whether you're worshiping God as mother like he did or as the Beloved Krishna or as the Christ of the Christians or as Allah of the Muslims in whichever way you you do it is the same reality you can see the purnam philosophy behind it once he was asked about the Buddha and emptiness it's in the gospel of Sri ramakrishna somebody said to him but the Buddha was a gnostic Gnostic might mean two things one is a non-believer in The Vedas which he was and the other one is not believing in some God or Ultimate Reality which he was not um sudama Krishna immediately protested and said why should he be a gnostic he could not Express in language what he had discovered what he had discovered he could not put it in language why could he not put it in language was a Sanskrit grammar faulty well no he was a very learned person a very learned Prince he had gone through all the philosophies and after giving up his kingdom and searching for you know Enlightenment he had gone to all the existing Masters and learned whatever they had to teach so he knew all that but what he had discovered finally could not be put in language moment you have language you have Concepts language and Concepts come together and you try to put in that you will be doing an injustice so sudama Krishna said but he didn't explain all this he just said he could not put in language what he had discovered and I'm just reminded you know the Buddha's great silence when he was asked these questions so I think 14 questions he remained silent there's a lot of discussion in Buddhist philosophy why did he remain silent not because he didn't know the answers he knew all the answers but none of them were adequate why did he remain silent because the real answer cannot be put in language and that's the beginning of the madhyamaka philosophy of nagarjuna who says if you clothe it in language and Concepts it's bound to be wrong and then comes the extraordinary statement of Sri ramakrishna he says in Bengali that which is between is and is not that's exactly right which is a very strange statement for a Hindu teacher to make the Hindu teacher Beyond existence and non-existence Beyond the Manifest and non-manifest is Brahman that language you find in the upanishads in the Gita bhagavad-gita do you find that language but between this between is a very picky Buddhist idiom in fact the very word means between it's neither the extreme of some existing God Atman Brahman nor the extreme of nothingness it's between literally in anybody who knows Indian languages it sounds immediate like middle and here SRI namak Krishna says that's exactly right this most Hindu of all teachers this image worshiper worshiper of Kali this poornam teacher and he uses the word of the language of nagarjuna and Chandra Ki tenses that's exactly right all right we take it as as it is it's a an amazing journey into emptiness last week and into fullness this week I pray to Sri ramakrishna Masha Radha Swami Vivekananda to bless us with that Vision with that Insight which liberates US from samsara where we can finally see samsara and Nirvana or Moksha as appearances in our in the reality that we are this Limitless awareness to [Music] thank you very much [Music]

Channel: Vedanta Society of New York

Views: 108,924

Keywords: vedantany, vedanta society of new york, sarvapriyananda, swami sarvapriyananda, sarvapriyananda lectures, swami vivekananda, vivekananda, vivekananda teachings, vedanta ny, vedanta, vedanta lectures, belur math, jnana yoga, hinduism, spirituality, enlightenment, higher consciousness, meditation, mindfulness, realization, consciousness, moksha, nirvana

Id: gQWEh9AC1K8

Length: 79min 14sec (4754 seconds)

Published: Sat May 27 2023

Reddit Comments

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[u/EthanSayfo]

This talk touches on so much, through the concept of Purnam, or fullness/wholeness, a key concept in Advaita.

I appreciate Swami Sarvapriyananda’s willingness to touch on his own interpretation of Nagarjuna, which is potentially controversial to Buddhists and Advaitins alike (always a sign of an interesting idea worthy of attention, IMHO).

Worth watching through to the end to see how he brings it all home, unifying the subject and the object.

Love his talks. This guy is doing such fantastic work. :-)

[u/braindead_in]

Still going through Shunyam.

[u/CanaryImmediate349]

Do you make notes when Swami is talking?