Prophetic Culture in 2021 | A Conversation with Shawn Bolz, Jona and Jennifer Toledo

hi expression family it is good to have you with us today um we are gonna we're gonna jump into just what we think is just such a needed an important conversation right now around the prophetic and so we invite you to join us today as we jump into this conversation we're just um asking for the heart of god for greater clarity and just for a real realigning and balance to to what's happening in our nation right now around the prophetic and so so thankful for honan and sean to to join me in this conversation we are three people who have been deeply impacted by the prophetic all of us um it has totally shaped our lives um and i know all of us have not only been massively shaped but have had words that have really sent us on the trajectory of our lives so you guys want to talk about that for a moment just how the prophetic has shaped us go for it well i mean i have all kinds of stories obviously on that but one of my favorite is hohna like i went down to ecuador and god gave me the stream about hona before i really knew him and to invite him to kansas city and to to be friends with him and i think god picks our friends so well so much better sometimes than we could pick our own friends they're so much better all the time than we can when he does it and i had that really dramatic dream and i asked your parents if you can come and study in kansas city and you never really went home we've been doing live together ever since so for me i wouldn't have had you if it wasn't for jesus i would have had this deep connection and friendship and i i wouldn't trade it for the world so that's one of my favorite god stories of the prophetic you know i was i was thinking about that very same story when you were talking about this and i i thought about how you know i didn't know who sean was at the time i didn't know anything about kansas city i didn't even know where kansas city was i've only been on the east coast in the in the us and and uh at that point you know i got that word and i remember just being like okay this is going to change my whole life if i moved to kansas city you know and i don't know anybody there no i don't know who shone is or anything and and i just remember just praying and and talking to my mom my dad and my mom just keep saying you know i just feel like as long as you're gonna have to really find peace in this and if there's peace there's god the god will lead you with peace and if there's peace in your heart go for it and i and and one of the things that sean was doing in our church back home during that time was a prophetic training and and one of the things that they did is that they said choose a person that you don't know and then we're going to do a prophetic exercise and i knew almost every single person in the church because you know my dad was the main pastor and i just knew who pretty much everybody so i'm looking around i found this one guy it was his first time at church you know and so he was so nervous because he was a brand new christian he's never been on anything like this and we were supposed to get worse for each other and uh you know he was embarrassed to tell me because you know he was like uh i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i just keep getting one thing i don't get anything else just one thing one thing and and i ask god so many times give me something else because we're supposed to get something that has meaning but the only every time i ask i just keep hearing peace gotta say that he's giving you peace right and so even with somebody i saw the prophetic just moved through somebody who's never prophesied before and he was fully new to us just just in that moment i was able to tell him how significant that word was for me at that moment it was the main thing i was praying about if god are you leading me with peace about this move yeah i love that i mean same for me i just think i mean i know this is true for all of us but it's like every major decision of my life was shaped by the prophetic i'm so grateful to have grown up in a prophetic culture um you know from where i went to school to even how i met you guys was so prophetic first time i went to visit them in kansas city i had three prophetic words like crazy pulled me out of a crowd like god says you're moving to kansas city and let me tell you i did not want to move to kansas city and i was like absolutely not and um you know went to another place another prophetic word and i was like what in the world and but i knew that god was attached i remember just spending you know just a day in the prayer room just praying like god i have had two prophetic words i'm supposed to move i was living you know i'm a california girl i was you know between california and the west coast of canada and africa at the time and i was like did not have you know the midwest on my radar and but god was speaking and there was something about it that was like okay and i remember just telling the lord if this is you i need one more confirmation and this woman i've never you've never met before walked up to me gets in my face and says he's already told you twice why do you need him to tell you a third time third time yes you're supposed to move to kansas city what and that's even how you know from that so much obviously life and friendship and ministry came out of that or even how god spoke to us about moving to l.a to plant expression right like so many huge things of our life have come out um just out of even just the prophetic has been such a kind of like a midwife in that process and so i know the prophetic is something that we all really value um not only do we believe in it but it's something that and has something that shaped us but it's something we teach it's something we um we fight for we we want to see nurture and grow because we understand how powerfully hearing from god is and what a gift it is to to see the heart of god for somebody and call it out in their life and so i wanted to start this conversation with that because that is the framework we sit in this conversation we are are three people who are passionate about the prophetic love the prophetic value it and and are championing it um you know so there's that but then we also know right there's this has been such a messy season in this country for the prophetic you know and uh there's a lot of discouragement there's there's so many words about um trump getting reelected and those words not happening there's a lot of um a lot of people who have felt very manipulated by the prophetic in this season or felt very disappointed and hurt there's just been a lot of division around it and so um you know in the middle of all this we're going to kind of jump into like where do we feel like in this conversation like what do we feel like god is saying um but before we get into that sean i'd love to hear your process because i know for you you prophesied that trump would have a second term then you apologized for that and then you know you've had some pretty intense feedback and having to walk that out and then i would just love to hear your process as somebody who we all know and love and trust and we know your heart we you know we've always appreciated your honesty your vulnerability your humility um in the prophetic and so i'd love to kind of hear your process and then kind of dive into trying to kind of maybe get a landscape of what's going on yeah i mean i think it's interesting because we i have an online prophetic community we do training and we model like our whole community we talk about vulnerability we talk about taking responsibility we get things wrong and you know i've lived through and hornet lives through some of the stories to in kansas city where they would go after something like y2k which was a time when the numbers are going to switch at 2 000 and there's so much fear-mongering over this if this happens the whole economy is going to be destroyed and disrupted and and b there's a wealth for the nations thing that you even know about like where i mean a huge segment of the church was investing in this thing that was like a ponzi scam and so we've watched profits rally around different agendas before uh many times those are just two big examples that would like hit a nation of movements you know sometimes internationally and uh so you know back then i felt like i could see them very clearly and so i never thought in my mind that would be a part of something where something was so off and at the end of 2019 i just traveled maybe 58 times in a very condensed way because i was trying to be home for family and i was training and i mean i think it released two books three courses five videos a week you know one of the one of the most listened to podcasts about the prophetic and christianity so it's number five to 20 every week on the pro on christianity period in all english-speaking nations and that was like starting in a major way that time and i was really tired and i was looking for like i have in the past what is god doing through this current administration of what do we align ourselves with and i've been in a season of prayer because some pretty specific people including paula white's group and other people asked me if i would pray and get some things from god now what was interesting is for three months it was a three-month period that i was really praying into this and the first month it was really interesting i think it was around october of 2019 i heard the lord say president trump doesn't see himself as the father of the nation he sees himself as a father of republicans and if he's going to really have any impact in this nation he's going to have to love the whole nation and the way i love this nation and and so i sent a message to this group that's the pastors that were around him and and then one of them listened to a message i had done online about we can't have authority over what we don't love and they all repented together as a group prayed cried and then brought that message not the actual audio message but brought that message to trump and said we feel like you've made an error we've helped you make this error we want to tell you this and they and he really received that and said i haven't and he like started toning down some of his things that he was saying where he was so someone's insulting or sometimes like very intense and direct so i was having like a measure of success and relating certain themes to this group i didn't want to go meet with them or meet with i didn't feel like i had a direct message or word and after about three months i think because of the impact of certain things about trafficking or things that were more private that i can't talk about over this that were happening that would he would directly relate to and then there was change i think i was overly invested or excited about it differently than when i prophesied over different politicians in the past i mean i didn't have any relationship to the south korean president who became south korean president i had nothing to gain or lose by him being that it was just a prophetic message i was outside the box and i had been trained in a culture where you don't prophesy politicians into politics you don't prophesy contracts into being very often until you have like a measure of credibility because it's it's like prop saying babies to somebody who's barren it's not i mean nine times out of 10 or 99 times out of 100 you're going to cause incredible disappointment and especially if you have any agenda so i have not in american politics the only thing that i've done is look for the redemptive threads over obama and clinton and uh bush and different ones here's what we could look at that god is doing let's not look at what the enemy is doing what man's doing wrong let's look and so i had done that with trump even with these guys here's the things i think god wants to do through trump and they got so excited that i ended up i ended up getting connected to different politicians and different you know media outlets and stuff and i think a mixture of being tired and excited i felt like i heard some things from god and it was in the season where i heard so many good things from god that were so accurate and so blew me away that i just felt like the same thing but there was a agenda and hype in the midst of it that i think we don't realize as human beings how much we can affect each other we just don't realize how much and how much success and excitement affects us too and what we think we're hearing and so i knew when um it was funny because i i said something to someone behind the scenes and they said you're saying trump's gonna win again i'm like i don't know because i had said that i believe that and during the next administration by year three that god's showing me that he's not allowing unrecoverable damage to our finances that a whole generation will lose their you know livelihood that we're gonna go into the great depression but by year three we're to start to have some recovery and and that says before kova there's gonna be some real recovery from some of the damage that's been being done and um and all of a sudden someone goes wait a minute you believe that there's gonna be do you think trump's gonna be present i said i actually do i think he's gonna be president and then all of a sudden i'm on fox news saying that what am i doing and when i got off i went i just did something not good and i told shari my wife i said i i'm gonna have to pay for this because i'm not sure even if he gets elected i'm not sure i was supposed to take a stand on this and then after three months go by i'm like i'm definitely wasn't supposed to take a stand on this and i had to learn i mean you don't realize like when you're in a position of authority and i wasn't flippant i had thought about it but i didn't know until that moment and it was too it wasn't like i ever could retract in that moment in the effective way i mean even if i had said this isn't gonna happen it would just cause confusion and whatever else sounds like i don't know what to do so i talked to some good advisors some people who are prophets who were around in the 80s and 90s prophecy and stuff like this who are more balanced and i said what would you do and they said uh i would graham quick being one of them i would um wait till it's done and just apologize because you're just looking for what god's doing and it got turned into something you allowed that and maybe there's ego in it maybe there's other stuff in it but you're not like god's not asking you to go you you do need soul search but god's not asking you to go through like you know ashes and sackcloth you just need to take responsibility just like you tell your community and so when it was time i wanted the first day that biden got elected i wanted to take responsibility then but there was so many people that were volatile there's a whole there really is a cult around different personalities and there was a cult around him i'm not saying that paul white people are cult around him i'm not saying i'm not identifying who it was but we see it and you can see it in media you can see and so when i when i did by the time i apologized and there's people demanding every week sending handwritten letters like bipolar crazy people 20 pages of articles and handwritten letters and whatever you know and death threats against me and all kinds of stuff so when i released the apology um right when i think was two weeks before the 20th or whatever of january because people were really mad um the majority the people who i cared about were great on both sides people who believed he should be like the people who didn't believe he should be like that they were great because they were just like we love that you're being honest with your process that you're just taking simple responsibility and saying i was wrong because i think people can learn from that more than if i try and defend i didn't backpedal i didn't say well part of it was right part was wrong i just said it was wrong and that was really helpful because a lot of people who kind of put out apologies were like well people didn't pray enough or people didn't do something enough and i just said i think i'm wrong i'm responsible for this because it didn't happen the way that i prophesied it so i'm taking all those words off the map and i'm not going to props about politics unless god i'm in a new process that's proven that behind the scenes i have a number of words that are accurate and that you know whatever because somehow i got invested into this wrong and because i got close to it and i didn't even like the investment when i was making it other than i know that there's some god moments but it went too far and i learned a lot about myself and then there was this whole other group of people that literally said like i mean it was like it was like as if satanists were wearing christian hats and saying we know them yeah and saying they're on facebook you will die and your family will die we're praying that your daughters die to teach you a lesson i mean stuff like it was crazy people who said we uh when trump's re-elected again we're going to make sure you're strung up in front of the white house killed as a false prophet i mean and that but the weird thing it was like there was like 2 000 to 5 000 messages uh emails and then there was like 20 000 comments on different social medias and uh and so i just didn't look i felt like god said don't look um you know who's with you and for you and who's a based on love like a love-based approach and everything else needs to work itself out this isn't your battle this is my battle i'm the one who builds your reputation you took a hit love conquers all you know love covers a multitude of wrongs and i i didn't feel like it wasn't an identity thing for me for me i was like i was wrong and i want to really apologize what was interesting is the other people who had prophesied it how they began to double down and if they didn't if they didn't believe they were wrong they doubled down in that moment like no this is going to happen i had a visitation i went from like language like i thought god's told me he's gonna be present too i had a visitation last night and i was really sad because i felt like there was almost like a i have something to prove now like some people are backpedaling i'm gonna have faith and the biggest statement was people said you don't have faith i'm like well realize i don't need to have faith in a politician who's being elected to be a prophet or to be a son of god or to be what i i need to have faith in jesus that his throne has established this government's landing and so i'm not worried about like whether america fails or succeeds that doesn't determine my christianity i think we're unique because we've been to third world nations we've been to dumps we've been to wildlife districts and we see the kingdom work where there is persecuted christianity where there is real rights being taken away from real people to where they can die and then we come here and it's like it feels sometimes and this is going to sound judgmental but it feels sometimes that there's a level of people crying who've never been to like almost like whiny crying who've never been to a country where there's real persecution and they're like we can't do this now i'm like even though we can't pray in schools we can sell bible clubs and brain schools there's places that you get killed and there's even parts of china that you could put in prison as children for praying in schools i mean we're hearing stories from some of the people it's a long story anyways but you know like so so to me our major rights have not been challenged so we're so blessed still and no matter what biden and his administration might take away from some of the republicans who are looking at it as us and them there's also things that god wants to do through biden's administration and we've seen some bad presidents in our in our history and even bad presence didn't make a bad country and that's what i think is really valuable right now is that i have so much hope like i actually felt delivered when i released the apology like i feel delivered from caring this burden of like this thing that i didn't fully believe in and i felt wrong for being positioned to say and i felt manipulated and not by anyone in particular but a mentality or culture and then i got sucked into something that i have never had happen before in that way but i've felt it before and i have had little moments of it which i hope people can learn that in our community like if you have a little moment where you're feeling forced or pressured into saying something you need to be a silent as you can and i think that um i learned a big lesson as a big i have my big boy pants on i learned a big lesson but in our prophetic community like both the local prophetic team here in los angeles that's a lot of different churches especially people from expression our online community i mean i felt like so many people grew from that moment like wow sean is you know he can be wrong and i've you know i was wrong about cove too i was read about four four of the five things with the covet but one of the big things that i said didn't happen with the covid like uh coronavirus ending quickly but i did say there's gonna be a vaccine this is gonna take two or three years there's gonna be a vaccine that's gonna be the fastest vaccine in history i said a lot of things but that one thing that i said wrong is what all the apologetic channels will get on and say see false prophets are out there they have an agenda they want to make money from you and i just don't listen to that narrative like i only even know that narrative because my team will sometimes say what do we do with this you know like uh with the team that you know for bulls ministries team they'll have to they need a response for some of the people who are listening to it not because i'm out there i don't google search my name right because i'm afraid to i don't i don't wanna i don't wanna read all that but um but i always i know is that i i have so much peace since then and such a connection to i didn't make me want to back away from the prophetic at all it made me wanna be more careful and really love people better through it and really sanctify some of those places inside of myself that could get pulled and it's hard when you you know that year 2019 which is this was all birth from for me i had so much accurate prophetic assignments every day i was on the phone with something that was so phenomenal and crazy and i was like god this is above any qualification i could ever have i love this this is so exciting and i think you do get carried away and it was too much activity i love when coronavirus lockdown started for surgery and it's been one of the biggest blessings in our life i know that's sad for many people who've suffered from it so i don't want to trivialize or minimize how hard it is for the community but for for shri and i and the girls that's been our favorite season of our lives together and one of the things i love is how quiet it is because in the quiet i've learned new boundaries of what i would never do again and man it's been good and i think i want to take quiet time every year now even when we're not locked down i'm going to take a quiet month or two to like really pray into before i would speak i think it's really good to think about what we're gonna say to in different areas like like you can't always with prophecy think about what you're gonna say because sometimes it's that's the nature of it sometimes it's the knobby prophet it means the unction of god comes out of your mouth but there's most of the time you can you know be more intelligent in the process and so i want to really do that gosh that is so good thank you for sharing that process with us that is so good just to hear that process um yeah i mean that i i think we can all relate to that to some degree for sure and then you know i think one thing too i want to point out um and just make sure i'm understanding it sounds like the people that were saying like really intensely the the main pushback you were getting wasn't from people just saying you're a false prophet because you prophesied that they're they're accusing you because you had repented yeah they felt there was an agenda to get him elected because they believe that he had it was almost like a messiah complex he's the cyrus who's going to take our nation into greatness and they'd attach their faith to that so much that when i repented i became like what's like an awol soldier who was no longer on the team and i was never on their team i was but that was her perception because i i only said like three small things about trump yeah but their perception was i'm now on team trump but it was interesting because i never went to the white house on purpose during that administration i went during obama's not to meet with him but other people on uh the pentagon and white house i went during clinton's to meet with people but i never went during his administration on purpose because i never felt like i was supposed to go and i never wanted a photo op i never wanted to just go to go and it was really interesting to get this group of people that really believes in a lot of conspiracy it's got heightened to the point that i couldn't see jesus in a lot of it anymore and there's some of them that are beautiful people who are doing great and then there are some that are still caught up in it and still believe that there's going to be a military coup and all kinds of stuff and it made my heart so sad because i'm like you're focused how much if you had that attention to put on something that would bring jesus tons of glory like would you want that time and space back after it's all said and done all the people do the y2k thing the one and i watched it i was thinking that i mean there's people who bought special homes to live in with special supplies like hobbit homes and hills and and they spent all their children's inheritance on this thing and spend all their time talking about it on social media everywhere else and i just think if you could have all that time back what would you give for that time for both your family yourself god and so for me like i i just want to be balanced where it's about the the majors of the majors the minors the minors and i feel like something in me um i feel like this is a learning moment you know this is this is a teachable moment for the prophetic at large it's in a teachable moment usually comes out of crisis and out of hardship and pain this is a teachable moment we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater but we do adjust and we we don't adjust so we look better we adjust so that there's righteousness we adjust so there's rightness in the middle of it and there's not a rightness in a lot of camps right now no there's camps are doing wonderful that never don't know about all this that weren't even involved as a matter of fact sometimes uh we haven't done much on our prophetic community we have two thousand people in our online community but most of the few things we've said most of them are unaware of all of these this whole prophetic contingency um that was trying to get this through or constituents so we're trying to get this through and so they were unaware of all the you know there was they weren't on any kind of daily calls or what so so they were so it's beautiful that there's a whole world outside of us that isn't affected by the negative the prophetic but i think because because for people like us in la we have such a polarization between democrats and republicans there's not a lot of in between excuse me that it was even harmful i think for people in our body a number of people in our body who were on q and on sites who were republican who were saying but this has to happen or this will happen and then i had some people who were democrats who were like this is demonic and they're demonic and i had to like go both of y'all are violating love like love is the goal and this now sounds like anti-love so it's antichrist it's anti-spiritual and it's a whole lot of negativity whatever is pure right now well that's what we fix our minds on and the prophetic helps us to do that this is discernment and at the at the most and and satanic gossip at the least like this isn't helpful like this whole there's a whole level of this that people were just you know spending their extra 25 to minutes to two hours on negativity and then feeding each other fuel did you see this did you see this did you see this i've never had so many videos sent to me as during that time that were literally called conspiracy of this with this person or you know this person's son this person's daughter this person who's a governor this person is this i mean it was a constant barrage that people on an agenda to dismantle now i do think we live in an information age and we share information much more readily but that means we have to be more discerning than ever about what we allow in and when we teach the prophetic even here we teach you know we're looking for what god's doing how to love through what he's doing that it's always encouragement comfort edification that the prophetic is not god's chosen tool in the new testament of judgment he judges his love judges all the time he judged ananias and sapphiras no one said i judge you they said the holy spirit's judging you it wasn't us it's not like the old testament where people just the prophetic's the tool for love now in there's old there's i mean end time prophecies but we're not to give endtime prophecies that way anymore that was in the book of the bible that's called the revelation of revelations and i think that's really confusing to christians who don't have good eschatology who don't have good theology who don't understand systematic theology it's like we're still relating to people who prophesy old testaments and we're looking for you're going to reap what you sow god's going to judge you versus no you will reap what you sow because that's how the law of this land works and god can cut that off of you if you repent which is beautiful but it's not his judgment that you're reaping what you're sewing that's just him leaving you alone to your own devices i mean it's just and i think christians have tried to um i just think we've tried to quantify too much when you have a good father who's leading you like you guys when you're driving with your mom or dad when you're growing up and they almost got a car accident you really you didn't really know what happened you just go on to laugh or whatever and they're like traumatized in the front seat going oh my gosh i almost got a car accident well god's leading us as a father and he's leading us through all these like terrible things and the moment we stop and we try and be god we try and be in the driver's seat and we need to know everything it's the moment we've lost that dependency on a father in heaven like there's so much that we don't need to know and i think that's really hard for christians right now because we are feeling violated we're feeling traumatized we have information now our parents didn't have our grandparents didn't have so we want to respond and do something injustice with it and some people have asked me what would you do differently and i i would now over the last few years say use the energy you're using on this which is information is power so it feels powerful to actually do something an action that's christ-centered power do something about foster care do something about the homeless do something about your neighborhood do something do something that's christ-centered power that you see an impact from don't do something that feels powerful online to share news or spread protest or whatever do something that has actionable steps that are kingdom steps even if it's about the black white issue if it's about whatever it is it's like let's celebrate what god's doing over you know i got in trouble for putting black lives matter as far as the movement not the message as a prophetic declaration on my instagram and i had all of these people say you are supporting an organization that supports law abcd and i said no this has become a movement that's bigger than that and we need to declare that god's dealing with civil rights starting with some of the black white issues right now that i've been believing for since i was 12 years old reading harriet tubman's stories you know like i'm so excited about what god's doing between the black white issue and somehow that got polarized to a political issue i'm like well how did this become a political like how am i in trouble for caring about a civil rights issue that i've carried in my spirit since i was 12 and advocating and loving and posting things about it how am i in trouble with a political people group who are christians who think that i'm now selling out something or misleading i mean i have people who told me you're using your prophetic chair um for to manipulate the masses with the wrong political agenda i'm like what so i feel like there's this thing where we just have to have healthy identity and boundaries for who we are and we're going to say things that are going to be taken differently whether you have a crowd of 100 people who follow an instagram or you know 500 people follow you on facebook if it's even that small people share their opinions like never before these days and they and they unfortunately are tearing each other's opinions down if you don't align with me there's something wrong with you and we have to teach against that and train against that and allow people full free will to figure it out for themselves and to you know gently nudge not bring out right correction we don't have the relational equity when you apply that to the prophetic people are using the prophetic to bring correction in a way that it was never intended we're supposed to use relationship with that the prophetic is not a substitute for a relationship the moment you do that you violate it again love and relationship and you'll no longer have authority you people won't listen to you and so i've just been trying to walk this balance you know of just how do we walk in a spirit of love with god the way jesus did yes in relationship i will correct i'm not going to say the lord told me i wanted to correct you i'm going to say honna you need to get your butt and gear i'm going to be his friend and so the moment you put god on it is the moment you've actually caused him to not have any choices because you put a god card on it and now he's feeling ashamed he's feeling disciplined he's feeling removed from god versus connected to god but when we correct out of love and relationship it doesn't do that so i think i think god's taking out the false power of what people thought the prophetic was and it's painful because we wanted the prophetic to be to solve all fix-all solve all our problems put people in place give us a king well what happened last time saul was put in place last time people asked for a king we don't want god to have to give us a king when he gave us king jesus we do want anointed leaders though that's not wrong to ask for but when you immediately substitute what you think is an anointed leader for actually kingship and you give your fealty to them it's scary because god's the only one that's worth doing that for so that's kind of where i've been at that's the culture of my heart that's so good that's so good yeah i think you bring up some really interesting points you know where there's i think two two dynamics we're looking at one is there's a lot of um there's a lot of um lack of health around prophetic culture right we're watching as we're witnessing as people how um when when you're getting rebuked for repenting there's something wrong right when you're um when it seems like people have put their hope in an outcome not in christ right when your hope is in christ it's like it doesn't matter what the outcome is god's got it it's okay to be disappointed but not to the point of your faith feeling right um i think what we're witnessing too is you know even if a lot of that i mean so many people i mean as pastors we deal with this all the time people in our office talking about how hurt they've been how they felt super manipulated by the prophetic in this season or how they've you know um literally were there's prophetic voices telling people if your if your pastor you know doesn't believe these conspiracy theories leave your church because they're blind and you see and they don't it's just like what in the world like you're gonna get people are gonna give an account to god you know for how how we've stewarded you know and influence other people and so there's a lot of mess in in i think prophetic culture that that god wants to realign and heal but i think stepping back even further and you touched on this too is the bigger issue and i think the bigger issue is in this country um there has just been so much mixture so much mixture in the american church and we have bought into this um partisanship we have bought into you know the reality so many people genuinely believe that that conservativism equals the kingdom and have not had the ability to separate themselves and understand no kingdom is kingdom and kingdom can be found on both sides and both parties fall very short because they're man-made they're driven by man's agenda right and so um there are some great things on both sides but there's huge problems on both and god doesn't endorse either god endorses the kingdom and and i think because so many people in this country have christians um have really associated um the kingdom of god as is god endorsing a political party there's so much mixture that it's created so many so much bias and lens that um people have not been able to see clearly and so i think when you take that concept and um it creates a lot of othering it creates a lot of um us versus them it creates you know we're good they're bad it lacking the ability to hear each other um and i said this recently to somebody you know because there's so many painful things that have been said in this season right from leaders like you know if you don't vote republican then you have the the blood of babies on your hands and you're going to hell i mean literally heard pastor saying that to people you know and it's like they emailed me quite a bit yeah and it's like hold on timeout right like just a second like has somebody even taken the time to ask a christian maybe why they would vote democrat right it's particularly around the abortion issue now we're i'm very vocal with with my you know where i land on the political spectrum i don't i think both parties you know really fail so i for me i don't i you know i'm very much like where is the kingdom and i i don't feel attached to either side nor do i believe anybody should be deep believers should be deeply attached to either side because our loyalty is to the kingdom but um with that you know for me even it's like having you trying to help people can we hear each other you know so i know pete i know christians because they're anti-abortion that's why they vote democrat because statistics research has shown that when democrats are in office there's fewer abortions that take place um primarily because you know of um programs that get funded or whatever and so not even being able to hear each other you know and it just becomes this like deep like partisan fighting and or this thing of like if we just can have you know um a political solution and i think this abortion issue is a great example of that because so much we've seen it's like you know it's a i'm a one-issue voter it has to be republican in office or whatever to fix the abortion issue and it's like it's that hasn't changed the abortion issue right we had a conservative majority supreme court when roe versus wade was passed we had a conservative majority supreme court for 40 years after it never got changed um you know we we know that just throwing republicans into office doesn't make abortion go away we know it makes abortion go away walking alongside people in crisis loving people right it's coming back to the gospel like walking alongside people loving people in crisis you know providing support and wrap around you know women is actually what makes abortion stop and so i think we've just gotten so into this as a nation so um so obsessed really and so um blinded by our our bias and our our political perspective and we begin to just mix the message right and so it becomes if you're a christian you have to vote this way you have to think this way and it's just caused so much damage you know and so um i know a lot of do you want to just yeah i want to say something with that i think that one question that kept coming during this time is how is it that all the prophets got it wrong you know like it's not possible that all the prophets are wrong and even when some of the prophets started apologizing the the ones who were apologizing for getting it wrong they were like one of the things that they keep saying is like they've they i i we just think that they felt pressure to to repent but they they they're not wrong you know and and they couldn't see that and then they couldn't come to think of like how is it that you know it's it's not all the prophets but i know there is an inner prophetic movement you know like the people that we know most of the prophets were prophesying that trump was going to win and so there was a lot of him and people that we admire people that have been in the prophetic for a long time and so i think this is one of the questions that people are in one of the reasons they feel like something's still going to change because it's not possible that all the profits got it wrong you know that's that's that's the phrase i could see i keep hearing right now but i think even with that right which just shows just how small our mindset is it's like all the profits in in a small very very very small stream most of whom if we're honest right we're all primarily white and republican themselves yeah i was going to say because i'm i'm maybe more connected to a lot of other movements prophetic movements because i'm out there all the time right up until coronavirus where i haven't been out there which is great so i'm i'm friends with you know um hubs of black churches hispanic churches some asian churches and you wouldn't hear and these are major prophetic voices that gets i mean some of them have followings on on like one of the guys yesterday i was watching one of his videos a friend of mine and he has 450 000 people on his youtube he's only this prophecy he's black never said anything about trump and he's very followed by the other people in the prophetic community as well so there's so many people that weren't it's just that there was such a banding together of maybe 25 figures that it looked like a majority but it's actually a very small group of people but it felt like there was such a consensus now i personally even though i said some of those things after that i never kind of went back into that group and i was praying how to back pedal and now when i say that i don't want to make myself look like the good guy i made a mistake uh the difference is though i wasn't caught into the encouraging each other into that perspective which happens in any field it's like if you have friends that are going to american idol the little cluster of friends that's encouraging everyone from there like you're going to be the american author you're going to make it you're it you're it that's these clusters of encouragements it doesn't matter what the outside reality is that there's three other thousands of people waiting in contestants in line and their minds as friends that's the person who's going to make it i feel like there was some of that unreality of like you know like who told you you can sing well my mom did there's that some kind of there's that there's that narrative that happens when there's not enough diversity in these issues whether it's politics whether it's building churches we've seen that when we were building this church we went outside not just to bethlehem to several groups and said how would you build a church and we learned a lot about what we wouldn't do by their answers and what we would do about their answers i had four other friends who built churches in la that the first year we were here that weren't close friends but acquaintances that we had met through it and they only had their one denomination leader who told them what to do everything from bookkeeping to hiring a secretary of whatever else and all four failed because it was not a diverse perspective so i think i think the prophetic a lot of the older prophetic people because the majority of the prophetic personalities right now are over 50 and they have a very small world of people they connect to it's one to three movements most of them have not been outside of their racial group most of them have not been outside of america into a third world nation that's just reality they haven't been to a persecuted church they haven't been to a place that's hard to get to so i think it's hard you know it sounds like a judgment but it's an assessment when you have people who have not been to the ports of the poor they haven't been to so they haven't seen that pain they haven't been into inner cities and done outreach in inner cities or ministry or had friends there they haven't had they can say that i have black friends with their other people in their own movement or i have you know i i know an asian guy you know that's like whatever and so it's a lot and a majority of these people are white and so i do think that sometimes although they have great brilliant minds with great brilliant perspectives when it comes to some of the sensitive issues that are really important because it defines their children's children's future a lot of them have never progressed that far past their parents and i love what uh danny stokes says about conflict models whatever your parents conflict model you haven't they had in their house is what they're gonna practice unless they've learned a new one and uh and i feel like it's the same with the prophetic biases or or political biases or whatever and whatever biases you have come into play in how you prophesy this is reality what our theology is we were pro we only prophesied according to our own theology so if our theology is is that this is this and this is this or if our political bias is this is this this is this we don't go far outside of that i think that god wants to do something in this generation we're blowing up those boxes and allowing us to see past our own life experience and we're exposed to so much and yes a lot of that's negative but a lot of that's really good because like i love what viola davis and julius were doing with some of the videos that they were putting out there where you were seeing a narrative that's different about african-americans than you saw from just some of the mainstream movies you saw like a really beautiful narrative or like there's different people who are putting out a narrative during like the black white issue that caused people that were on the other side of the issue to look at it and go i have empathy i have connection i have compassion and one picture changed a generational issue that's a bias in their life so i think the prophetic is very infected uh by biases right now in certain movements in certain regions and it would be the same in a little inner city black community that um has profits that are real profits there's certain political issues that they would speak on if they got a big enough platform that we wouldn't agree on so it's just the difference is that there's some of these guys that have become so mainstream that we expect them to be right in all the different areas they prophesy about and some of them are really good church prophets they're not really good for political prophets you know i'm really good with the arts entertainment crew and business people that's like my my zone i can be blessed with the uh ministry people too but politicians and and and certain other types of people i'm just not like it's not as connected for me and so i recognize that so i'm more careful like you start to understand where you have authority and where your biases are where you don't have experience or where you don't have anointing we have to recognize even the sphere of what where we come alive and where we have authority yeah no that's so good and i think that's what's really been the cause of so much pain right i mean we've had i know this season has been so painful especially for people of color especially for um women you know people who have felt like these prophetic words like this doesn't even feel like god because i feel like on the other end of that feels like oppressive for me you know and so i think it's caused a lot a lot of pain and i think you're right there has been so much bias and and we know this right because we we have the three of us have been around incredibly insanely prophetic people but we also know they're just human and we've also watched them really miss it because of their own bias their own need for inner healing their own issues right um even that before we moved to l.a you know that was one of the they we got words that we were gonna die if we came to to l.a earthquake was going to happen and they were scared we were going to go underwater and god was going to judge l.a and we were going to die and so they begged us not to go yeah and they asked us to go and so but it was people that we completely uh respected and we've they've been incredible in in other ways right but we saw how one of them needed inner healing about this area and after he he was he was healed from that painful part of of his uh his life he was able to actually prophesy uh you know why we were actually coming to l.a and we was able to get the heart of god for that so i think that obviously we are in a time where the prophetic movement is in deep need of healing yeah i want to just say this and i want to move on uh and kind of talk about where do we go from here but i want to just i want to remind people because um i i've talked to people who have just been so in shock like how could the prophets miss it you know and um you know it's it's it's always funny it's like do you read your bible um because you know there's so many places in scripture where the prophets not like not like the freaky weird ones nobody believed in like the prophets of israel missed it right you know you see it in jeremiah you see it in lamentations you see it in ezekiel um i encourage you to go read these passages read jeremiah 14 read jeremiah 23 you know listen the whole prophetic movement misses it um in lamentations 2 14 it says the visions of your prophets were false and worthless they did not expose your sin to ward off your captivity the prophecies they gave you were false and misleading same in ezekiel ezekiel 13 you know also same thing is happening but here's you know i'm going to read just the last part of ezekiel 13 22 and 23 says because you've confounded and confused good people unsuspecting and innocent people with your lies and because you've made it easy for others to persist in evil so that it wouldn't even dawn on them to turn to me so i could save them as if as of now you're finished right and so no more delusion mongering from you no more sermonic lies i'm gonna rescue my people from your clutches you hear these passages what's interesting to me when you look at them where you see like entire prophetic movements miss it um there's an underlying theme and the theme is over and over in these verses when you read them you realize the complaint of god is he's rebuking the prophets for you didn't recognize that sin in your own camp you didn't tell my people about what was going on in their hearts you were so consumed with with prophesying against your enemies you were so consumed with your own agenda you were so consumed with wanting to have your way that you didn't highlight to my people how they were in captivity and help them get free and i think that is a picture of what's happened in the season you know we we think that god is so consumed he's more consumed with what's happening in our government than what's happening in the hearts of his people and we've missed it the reality is god cares far more about what's happening in the hearts of his people god has always worked throughout history in awful like monarchs and dictatorships and whatever right like god god all he needs is the heart of his people and i think because we've we've so pointed fingers and we haven't done the work to to really look at our own bias to really look at our own pride to really address our own um issues you know things that have led to division things that have allowed white supremacy to really flourish in this country those kinds of thinking because we haven't rooted them out of us you know and we've been so focused on trying to tell everybody else what they're doing wrong or how to get in alignment with god and it's like and we missed it you know there's just been this big painful miss and i think so many people have felt very hurt have felt very manipulated um i will say this in that is that the reality is when times come because honey came over one night he was really you were discouraged you were just like i just didn't know this person would believe this or this person would believe this because there was really good people believing really wrong things and i said it's it's really good for us to see this right now because we're seeing their capacity of humanity we're seeing i remember someone told me i was asking like how will i know when i mature as a prophetic person i said when you recognize that everyone's human and god's god meaning that people are going to fail and you don't get so taken out by it you're not like oh my gosh that pastor failed in his whole church what do we do now it's like we're justified by our own priests and our own faith in god and we need community we need each other but my life and my faith doesn't depend on you being my pastor and your moral choices i you help me by making good moral choices but my life in god i'm justified by my own prayer life the way i read the bible the way i hear god for myself and i think there was an addiction and even a false sense of what the prophetic's for again like a solve a gift to fix a gift an appointing gift it's like this is what it's for the prophetic in in essence is for us to be able to see jesus and i love ephesians 1 17 so you get a wisdom of revelation so you could see jesus more and know who he is also so we could see his inheritance revelations 19 10 that the reason why the spirit prophecy is the testament of jesus is because he was looking at the bride john was looking at the bride when he heard this and the angel said hey this is what jesus spirit prophesies about her and hebrews 12 2 and 3 it says for the joy set before me endure the cross who's the joy set before him that's what the prophetic's about the prophetic's not about fixing world issues as much as it is causing people to become his inheritance and i think that that's where if you're disappointed in the prophetic if our community is disappointed in different personalities whatever else recognize your humanness this is like i mean i think i don't know if you ever want that period while suddenly you saw your parents and you saw them as completely human and they could make mistakes you were a kid and all of a sudden you were like my parents they have like flaws massive flaws like some some kids really it's traumatizing i remember when honor went through it he was a young adult it's like my parents this flawed like they but they're also awesome they're amazing like it doesn't make you hate them it actually makes them more endearing and you go i gotta learn though how to not be like that because i have to learn from their weakness and their strength when you're a learner and you're coming as a childlike person you're saying i want to learn from this current movement of what they just made mistakes and to never repeat these in my lifetime again i also want to value them as people and that they're people who are really passionate and some of the things they've done oh no all their lives are quantified by this one moment and this one moment maybe a bad moment we watched it with the people who prophesied over us for to not move here and that was a bad moment but then they one went on to give us the words that helped establish the worship movement we're doing i mean it's just a beautiful like how god turns some things around in them because they're human so i think that's an important part is that the prophetic is to see jesus and see the inheritance of jesus more than it's to see how you can get a business breakthrough how do you how does your marriage get better those are god wants to speak about those things too and those can be a part of that inheritance but they're not the exact object of it they're byproducts of it but the object of the prophetic is so we could know jesus more it's so good so here's we only have a few minutes left here's what i'd love us to just kind of talk about you know a lot of what um we've heard and i would be in agreement to is an apology isn't enough an apology isn't enough like pastors prophets church culture has fueled what some serious dysfunction we're seeing how do we fix it how do we move forward how how do where do we go from here yes tell us jen how do we fix it tell us guys you know where do we go from here um and what are some of the the attributes of a healthy prophetic culture right so um i'll maybe start with the first part you guys can jump into that like healthy prophetic culture um i i think we have to i don't think we have the answers of how we totally fix you know obviously but i think it's it's first recognizing just acknowledging massive bias exists within the church and in people it's acknowledging um you know that we have had a dysfunctional relationship both with the prophetic and with politics and that we need to get out of bed with politics we need to get out of bed with a political party out of bed with that kind of mentality where we've united ourself in an unhealthy way or held it in a an unhealthy place in our heart and we need to we need to come back to what scripture says about the prophetic and and love people and stop you know prophetic people shouldn't be genies in a bottle right like these are these are people that that are gonna you know have huge wins but also have you know are gonna fail and we have to be able to have our own lifeline to god hearing from god ourselves um and so i do think that there's a mess to clean and it's going to require humility and it's going to require brave conversations and it's going to require some honesty um and i think sadly those who refuse to do that just aren't going to be able to step in with authority in this next season i think that there's just going to be a real void of authority um but like let's talk a little bit just really quickly what does what are some of the attributes that are needed for a healthy prophetic culture because we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water and i think paul never wrote to just prophets or people who hear god's voice he wrote the fruit of the spirit in first corinthians 13 about love he wrote that to everybody that's the baseline of character and and i think to put up healthy boundaries relationally to people i mean i remember a guy came to expression58 one time he said i'm profit so and so and i said you know i i need you to tell me like who you do birthdays with and christmas with and he goes what do you mean and i said who did you spend your last few christmases with and he couldn't tell me like i think a pastor and he basically defined how relationally toxic he was that he didn't have long-term committed relationships so he doesn't have the fruit of the spirit yet he wants to be a prophet so i think we go back into first of all does this person effort the second thing is that actually weigh and measure how many times people have heard from god for us in a real way and so we could measure and weigh that word for our lives or for our community and so we look at i remember jim mcfarland gave me 20 words for our community that god had really used him to be the voice for and he was an unlikely voice but god spoke to him those of you who remember jim we love jim and uh he's passed away since but he he was one of the first prophets that gave us consistent from in the house him and j.j that gave us consistent words over and over and over so we had a track record so if somebody said hey tell me some of jim's words what makes him a real prophetic voice i can tell you 20 things that he said that happened that helped steer our community steer us in love steer the value and and he gave us one word that was like his opinion that i had to say jim i don't believe that and he's like well we'll see and you know we all it wasn't mean like it was just like we'll see and we saw it didn't happen and it was fine and he was like oh sorry about that and it wasn't a big deal at all but having those kinds of boundaries in the community of like looking for fruit both in the lives but also in the words actually when you give a prophetic word there should be metrics to it you know like i gave you guys a word about a house that you guys would either get a down payment or someone's going to help significantly get you into a house you will have be rooted here and land here in reality in l.a i knew that was part of like your destiny here and that happened like that that's like we have 15 of those stories together back and forth and so we trust each other when we hear something but if i came and told you guys hey here's how you should vote and it was something about your choice and your opportunity and i'm giving you a directive that's when it becomes dangerous or when it feels like a bad type of multi-level marketing or when it feels like a pressure that you have to believe with me to be in the know those are things we have to put boundaries up like information is not king and the prophetic love is character is being like jesus the excellencies of christ are king and so i think if we rebalance some and you know like for me personally i'm saying i'm not processing over politics and i'm being very careful about specific details and words that i would give broadly i'm being very careful i'm giving some general ones like i believe children who are born during this time it's a very significant time to be born i think there's something really special about last year's babies and this year's babies that's generic it's like you know i have some words about that but if i said the you know one of the presidents that's being born right now that will change everything like you got to be really careful you're going to be really careful how you say things because it puts people's identity in a prophetic word and that that's their child and maybe you know just all these things again it's like saying uh i know that god has someone for me versus that's the person i'm gonna marry and even when they get married you're waiting for the divorce so you can marry them and that's the unhealthy prophetic culture that's out there that's been out there forever that we've been trying to preach and balance to so for me if we keep the balance to our hearts and and help each other to not get affected by the extremes to get carried away with a prophetic perspective it becomes our obsession versus christ himself that separates us and marginalizes us from other people groups that causes us to have hate or or disconnect in our heart from people we love which we've watched happen in our community we watch happen in the community of america that there's a disconnect that was born from information that wasn't rude and grounded in love or in the kingdom and that's what we're addressing like let's get rid of that yeah i agree yeah i think that you know the thing that god has spoken to me over and over again during this time is how humility is always the path you know it's humility when you're right in humility when you're wrong so you don't you don't just get you know stop being humble when you're right you know like you have to always stay in humility and i think that many times gifted people can it gets in your head right it becomes it becomes your identity or it becomes your ego and and so uh and when you were talking about you know the chapter of love like we're all called to to do that and so in chapter 14 when it says you know pursue love the word for love that is a agape right and so it's the pursue love and and then and then it talks about pursuit the gifts of the spirit right and then and overall then pursue prophecy and so but when in the context that we are supposed to pursue prophecy is on the context of agape love that is sacrificial love it's a love that serves and many many many other uh versions says pursue charity right because it's supposed to be this like this love that is willing to that will that will that will drive you to sacrifice that will drive you to serve right and so when when we see and and i feel like any time when we when we see unhealthy culture in in in christianity uh you know if we just go back to the simplicity of like we just need to realign ourselves with what we're supposed to be doing if our focus is the sacrificial love that serves and that is not looking for our rights right because i think what we saw in this last season was people uh being self-focused and and just just what they wanted right it's just what it felt like this is gonna it's our idea of how we're gonna make this country a better country is not god's necessary idea right like he can do it in many many ways and so i just think he's just going to the simplicity of that and then in that you're pursuing the gifts of the spirit you know like that's it's i love that scripture because it's like hey remember that god is a good father who wants to give you gifts and especially the gift where you communicate with him and then you encounter him and that you get to see who more of who he is because it's about relationship with him right and so it's just to me that's like just the simplicity of that but um and and but we all have to come back to that place of choosing humility and going back to uh just it's really about sacrificial love totally yeah i think that's so good i think you know some of those kind of just checklists of what creates a healthy prophetic culture is humility you know it is about having a relationship it is about making love your goal it's also about accountability and being known right it's like you can't just kind of be a prophet on social media and not be tied into a local community you you can't just oh i have a board of an echo chamber that's your friends like you know people have to be tied into each other right and and not just to each other but we need diversity right we only see you're gonna have impact and you're gonna go after an issue or you're gonna with a prophetic like some of our teams that are going after like trafficking or going after prostitution or whatever you have to have people who are from all kinds of sides to speak into the process and i think that that's where um i love our community is that you know a lot of our people who are going out there and doing these things building schools in congo casa medicine um who are just dear friends you know like they're going after it because of a prophetic word and because of a prophetic directive but they're doing it in balance and they're doing it in a real way which means it requires real born it requires real voices it requires real education and i think that that's um the difference between it's this isn't fantasyland where we just land a prophecy because we have faith this is like we're in a very real world that has very world warfare and the prophetic can add warfare or it can subtract warfare but it doesn't substitute relationship with god or process and that's the big thing is that if we can have a healthy prophetic community we're going to recognize there's still process and that's really important yeah absolutely i agree and and i think even what you said at the beginning it's like get out there and actually do something right like it's far like even more than your vote or to prophesy about something go do something like go partner with god and do something you know and so i think it's that that alignment that god is bringing um and just character coming back to character like good old-fashioned character you know where you're kind and you're loving and and you take responsibility and we're humble and um you know i kind of as we're just wrapping this up i've just been thinking so interesting like what why was there such an assignment on the prophetic in this season right like why has the enemy worked so hard to destroy the prophetic voice you know where the prophetic was was being used to really in a lot of ways polarize and separate and divide versus unify and love and heal and what it's called to do um you know and so my heart and prayer for our community you know watching obviously i know we're all in agreement on this is is that we would truly see god's intention for the prophetic be released in this season and um and even that like we've seen this massive warfare over this thing that that we would just see even more so the healing and the redemption that it's meant to to usher us into um and so anyways i want to just thank you guys for your time uh for sharing just your heart and your process with this is such good insight um i know so many people in our community been like can you guys talk about this and we actually didn't prep or you know like what we were going to talk about we just we wanted us to be kind of like you know if you just kind of sat in on our living room and kind of what you'd hear like are like a conversation we we would just have as friends around this um and hopefully that this has been helpful um obviously we can't fix everything in one little moment right but it's the beginning it's it's the journey of healing it's a journey of moving forward and we're committed to that as a community of really rebuilding trust of getting healthy in this area of recognizing where there's been deep pain caused by this and how do we how do we fix that so that doesn't happen you know all of those things and so um last words yeah i would say um we can't villainize the gifts that god gave us as precious things because of human people who've misused him and i love our exploring the prophetic podcast that's how every week you guys can listen to it everyday people who are hearing god and seeing transformational lives i've been to school because of 150 episodes of every kind of even politicians people who are hearing god and seeing so listen to good stories where you see actionable items happen because of prophecy don't listen to online narratives that just go in circles forever and you know fill yourself with things that are real stories i just want to say to any of you that need a prophetic father to repent uh maybe it's because of someone else maybe it's not even me i repent i tell you i'm sorry for any um pain that's been caused by the prophetic movement and i never want to be in the position of being a prophetic father in the movement but i am one so i just i tell you i'm sorry and i know it's been painful for many of you and i just want you to know this is not the story of the prophetic and not what we're gonna see god is gonna use prophecy and these revelatory gifts as one of the main tools and the next great wave and move of god and that's one of the reasons why the enemy came to destroy it to destroy the reputation but you know what god's doing is he's taking our our codependency out of it so we'll have our own relationship to hear god so i just want to encourage you if you've been hurt by it just let that wound get like lance today let that wound get healed i repent to you you are worthy of the right prophetic gift god's bringing it don't let a few bad examples or a few moments that were bad examples whether it's people or moments don't let that define it let the bible and who god is defining prophecy by his nature and let it be reset in your spirit right now because he wants to use you in this he wants to use other people around you in this and he doesn't want you to be like afraid or ashamed or sad he wants you to feel like this could be a place of one of the greatest hopes this is a gift set for the greatest hope of god yeah i feel like the same thing you know i feel like as we align ourselves with god in the season you know in the way the enemy tried to just bring uh uh just uh even even just to to discourage people from really pursue the prophetic uh it is because there is a great way of of revelation right we we are the closer we get to to the end right like the closer we are gonna be the more we're going to be able to see the fullness of who god is right he just keeps unveiling more and more of who he is and we want to be right in the middle of it like we don't want to miss any of what he has for us because of bad experiences so yeah that's the same thing i was like as if and there's there's no wrong right like if we if a if love is really the aim then there's you know even when we make mistakes like you know god in his grace will help us to get up and help us to continue to go from glory to glory that is what we're called to to do so good well hopefully this encourages you we are on the journey together um we are all committed to loving each other to having brave conversations to going after god's heart for each other we're so grateful for this community that is 60 different ethnicities and votes differently and sees the world differently and i think that is one of our greatest gifts and strengths is that we are able to see these things from different perspectives and share our hearts with each other and be a safe place to navigate these these hard things and so we love you expression thank you for joining us today have an amazing week

Channel: Expression 58

Views: 1,487

Rating: 4.5151515 out of 5

Keywords: shawn bolz, bolz, cherie bolz, expression 58, expression58, e58, church, los angeles church, revival, jen toledo, jennifer toledo, jona toledo, bolz ministries

Id: LBsKrhPoU7Y

Length: 65min 51sec (3951 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 10 2021