Propaganda, the Weaponization of Language, and How Christians Can Stand, with Dr. Erwin Lutzer

foreign [Music] ERS podcast where we equip Christians to identify the core beliefs of historic Christianity discern its counterfeits and proclaim the gospel with Clarity kindness and truth and today's episode is brought To Us by impact 360 Institute where they create life-changing experiences for students go to impact360.org to learn more now today I'm very excited to bring you a discussion I had with Dr Irwin Lutzer we've had him on the podcast before to talk about his book we will not be silenced about Christians living out their faith in a culture that's becoming increasingly more hostile to Christian beliefs well he's just written a new book called no reason to hide and he's going to be talking about that with us today I loved this conversation that I had with Dr Lutzer he has so many years of wisdom under his belt such well-researched material but he talks about everything in this book talking about Progressive Christianity deacon instruction the lgbtq plus activism that we see in our culture right now wokeness social justice all the things there is nothing that he shies away from talking about in this book and in this interview that you're about to hear some highlights for me was when he talked about propaganda and how language today is being used as propaganda I found that portion of the conversation to be incredibly enlightening so I'm really excited to bring that to you he talks about diversity equity and inclusion and how those policies actually fail to help minorities so and actually kind of promote discrimination so we talked about all these really interesting things and how social justice is even being used as a trojan horse in the church and how dangerous an ideology it is so I'm very excited to bring that to you but I want to let you know about some upcoming guests we're going to be having on the podcast we're going to be having some really great discussions so be sure and subscribe wherever you're listening whether it's Apple Google Spotify YouTube subscribe if you're watching on YouTube click the Bell icon to be notified every time we release a new video because we have some really great conversations you're not going to want to miss we're going to be talking with Dan Kimball Dan was one of the early founders of the emergent movement that morphed into Progressive Christianity although early on Dan couldn't uh go along with what was happening so he had to split from that movement and he has some really great wisdom to share with us about his experience and how we can be aware of the progressive shift today as somebody who really lived through it the first time we're going to be talking to Andreas vigay vegetta I think it is Andreas vigette who is sort of a specialist on the Theology of Kenneth Copeland and we were talking and we realized that this is going to be a fun episode Kenneth Copeland and Richard Rohr have some very similar views when it comes to creation and that view would be pen entheism so that's going to be an episode you're not going to want to miss we're also going to be talking with Dr Everett Piper who has been in the I would say the Ring of fighting against wokeness in the social justice ideologies for a very long time so he's going to come on and share some of his wisdom with us so be sure you subscribe so that you can know when those episodes are coming out because we don't want you to miss them all right without anything further I am very excited to give you this conversation I had with Dr Irwin Lutzer well Dr Lutzer I am I have been so excited about this conversation and I want to just thank you so much for writing this book no reason to hide uh you really brought the fire with this one and uh so we talked a couple years ago about your wildly popular book we will not be silenced and we this was just right in the wake of kovid and George Floyd and all of these things were happening the chaos and culture and now two years later you come out with no reason to hide Stan I love the subtitle standing for Christ in a collapsing culture and I'd love if you could just share with us you know what what were the developments in culture that you know prompted you to write uh sort of a company I don't know if you would call this a companion or a follow-up to we will not be silenced well you know Elisa I looked over the culture and asked myself the question what kind of issues does the church really face and you know as you look at culture you realize of course that we are in a battle and by the way we didn't choose this battle it's not as if we as Christians went out looking for a fight the culture has come to us and it cannot be avoided and this interview I'm sure will make that very very clear so I looked at it and I said well d-e-i diversity equity and inclusion the rise of the self and then of course the whole idea of collective demonization how today for example if you're a chemistry professor even if you have a PhD and you're a good teacher and you apply at a university you'll be asked whether or not you go along with multiple pronouns and whether or not you're buying into the whole woke agenda it never used to be that way and then of course in addition to that I discussed this question what do we do with those people who say you ought to feel guilty because you have stolen the land so I deal with that issue and that's not dealt with of course in my other book there are a bunch of new issues in this one and then one of my favorite topics and that has to do with the whole business of how language is used in propaganda and I hope we get a chance to talk about that and then you know the whole issue of trans and uh how how parents should be able to help their children if a child comes to them and says you know I think I'm trans then I deal with education in the schools and then the great reset but maybe one of the most important chapters is the last one on how to suffer for Christ and consider it to be a badge of honor We As Americans need to rethink our view of suffering for Christ you know that that is such an important point because as we see it seems to be in culture there's all this chaos going on as it would relate to race and American history and the propaganda of language and the sexual ideologies that are out there but there's also at the same time there seems to be this idea that your life is just about you it's about you being happy chasing your dreams uh being personally fulfilled in every possible area it's just kind of like the god of self and I agree with you I think that Christianity offers the best answer to suffering gives up you know absolute purpose in our suffering so I definitely want to talk about that but I'd love to start with the propaganda piece because this is something I've been thinking a lot about you know Dr Lutzer when I go around and speak probably the number one sentiment that is relayed to me from people who work in places like public schools and business says people that are not in full-time Ministry is this issue of having to go through the diversity Equity inclusion training or being forced to use pronouns of other people or declare their own and of course teachers in PRI in public schools are facing such a battle you know Elisa you actually raised two separate questions and I don't know exactly which one to attack first but let's talk about propaganda and then lest I forget please ask me about the whole trans phenomenon okay well let's talk about propaganda first remember that the purpose of propaganda is to associate people's view of reality that even when confronted with a mountain of evidence they will not change their minds in other words propaganda has to work that way and one of the reasons I have such an interest in it is because of my interest in Hitler some of you might know that I wrote a book entitled Hitler's cross which is still for sale where I talked about all the cultural streams that brought about Nazi Germany the response of the church and so forth but Hitler said with the right use of propaganda we can make Heaven appear Like Hell and Hell appear like heaven what you need for propaganda of course is first of all an enemy Hitler said that the burning of the rice dog was a gift from the gods because then what he could do is he could clamp down take away personal rights because of fear because of fear of an enemy even though of course we know that that burning of the rice dog was very probably done by him and one of his henchmen of course but the point to be made is simply this that language is used in such a way to bring about these changes well since we're talking about propaganda and we're talking about absurdity remember in the last part of the book and I mentioned this in the book that we're talking about today no reason to hide remember in the last part of 1984 George Orwell's book Winston is taken into a room and he is told that two plus two is equal to five sometimes it's equal to three and sometimes it is both now I've thought about that and at the end of the book you remember he ends up loving Big Brother which is fascinating but what they wanted to do is to get Winston comfortable with living with lies so in order to have propaganda you have to live with lies and everybody knows that we are living with lies and expected to men can have babies too or a woman can be a man and a woman can be a father or that a student you know can be a cat absurdity and I and this comes to mind as I'm answering your question you know and Rand was not a fan of Christianity but she often said some very wise things she said it's possible to avoid reality but you can't avoid the consequences of avoiding reality absolutely profound but back to propaganda so how is language used well first of all it's used in slogans and behind the slogan there is a hidden meaning but let me give you another example that I use and that is in one of our universities that I quote in the book where it goes on to say here are some banned words you can't say policemen you can't say freshmen and it goes down the list and by the way if there's a barber shop in your area you can't say that he takes in walk-ins because you might offend some people who can't walk after all there are people in wheelchairs now Elisa let's just take a deep breath and figure out what is going on here is the intention to elevate the discussion of course not it is intended to shut down the discussion it is intended to silence students nobody knows what is right you right or wrong can we still go into a restaurant and ask for a menu can women still have a manicure nobody knows and so it Orwell points out words are used to narrow the realm of thought in such a way that you are in this ditch so to speak and you can't get out of it and eventually you won't even have the vocabulary to get out of it so that's one way in which it is used and we could go on I think I list six different ways that language is used in propaganda let me give you one other and then we can move on to the transgender transgender subject that you brought up let me give you one other and that is how words are used in such a way that you don't have to discuss ideas you transfer them and they become mental States for example you're pro-life you hate women you believe in strong borders and I in my book I argue as to why we should have strong borders but you believe in strong borders well you know what you're racist and when you um you know if you are opposed to same-sex marriage you're a bigot the other day on TV is someone who's very famous said this I won't name her but she would be known to your audience she said we would not have an environmental crisis if um if we didn't have racism um you connect those yeah the way some of these people reason is if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and lays duck eggs it must be a camel so so we're living in a very irrational age so those are some of the ways in which language is used to uh do propaganda and then the other thing of course is to use a small event and to paint with a broad brush and make it something that is applying to everyone Etc so we must recognize that we are in an age an Information Age and as a result propaganda really is everywhere and I can also respond I'm giving you a long answer here but I can also respond as to how we as Christians should respond to propaganda and understand you always have to get back to the word of God As a matter of fact I'm going to give you this illustration right now and then Elisa we'll talk about transgenderism uh here in Chicago a young pastor at Moody Church he and his wife were having their first baby he was in the delivery room and the little baby was stuck in the birth canal suddenly panicked throughout the room and of course he panicked too but a doctor came over to him and looked him Square in the eye just like I hope everyone who's watching this looks me Square in the eye and said this in a moment there are going to be 20 people in this delivery room there's going to be a lot of buzz but relax we've been here before and we know what we are doing and everything is going to be okay and you know we can watch CNN from early morning to late at night we can watch Fox News from early morning to late at night and it will not feed our soul it will inform us and you and I especially we watch a lot of news because we write about these things but there are times when we just need to back off get into the Bible and remember that God says don't worry I know what I am doing and everything is going to be okay thank you [Music] well I want to talk to you about our first sponsor today and that's impact 360 Institute as we mentioned at the beginning they create life-changing experiences for students they have summer programs and also a nine-month gap year program I teach at all of the events but the one I really want to encourage you to consider today is the Propel event this is one week if you have a student in your life in your family who is looking for some kind of a summer camp experience I can't recommend this highly enough it's a great introduction into the ministry of impact 360. it's only one week where your student is going to be discipled they're going to be taught great apologetics and theology life skills how to live as a Christian in a culture that's becoming increasingly hostile to our beliefs I am one of the teachers that will be there so if you send your student to propel this summer I will get to meet them and spend a day with them I always look forward to it it's the highlight of my year to get to go to impact 360 and really apply AI a lot of the things I'm learning throughout the year to the lives of young people and what they're facing in their specific cultural moment so I want to offer you a great discount today if you go to impact360.org use the code podcast that's podcast in all caps at checkout that's going to give you fifty dollars off that is a great discount and this is a great opportunity to introduce your student to impact 360 and then I am sure if they do the Propel experience they're going to want to do more experiences in the years to come and so go to impact360.org again use the code podcast all caps podcast at checkout for 50 off [Music] thank you well that's comforting and that's good now I I am going to answer your question about transgenderism well let me let me pop in I promise we'll talk about transgender in just a second because that's a topic that has been really in my heart and mind lately but I do want to just comment a little bit on the language because I think this is so important when I go out in fact this kind of ties us into the transgender conversation um but when I go out and speak one of the questions I'm asked very often if we do a q a or something like that is somebody will say what do we do about pronouns because for my kids generation my kids are 14 and 11. and it's the number one uh issue that they're facing is the the radical gender Theory trans ideology and the pronouns because they uh for for my kids generation and I tell people you cannot shelter them from this you can lock them inside your house and they're still going to hear about it even if they're they don't have access to screens it is just absolutely everywhere and so what I tell people with the pronouns is you know it's really not that difficult you just you don't live by lies that's when somebody else is forcing you to tell a lie that's the line you don't have to live by lies and it's amazing how language is used in this way to to twist and another example of that is just in my personal life I love to cook make sourdough bread so I'm baking bread all the time I love to do that so I follow some Instagram accounts of people who make sourdough bread and some schools and things like that and I saw this post yesterday Dr Lutzer I couldn't believe it it was it was taking the word justice and just twisting it up into something else and it said the post was lamenting the fact that that sales of white like Mass manufactured white bread are up and they said this is a food justice issue they said because this white bread is bad for people and it's you know it's not very digestible whatever they thought was wrong with the mass manufactured white bread they said this is actually in Injustice and they called it food Injustice because poor people can afford it and so it's unjust to them to not make the better bread affordable to them so con you know what do you what are we what I know that this is something a lot of people face when they're scrolling through Instagram explain what is going on when they're calling white bread sales being up food Injustice okay well that's a new one for me but I do want to comment about the pronoun situation first if Bert was born a boy and now he wants to be called Betty I would call him Betty and the reason is because names are not gendered and as a matter of fact many couples today name their girls their baby girls by what we used to call boys names but if you asked me to use the pronoun she for Bert I can't do that I'm with you on that you don't live by lies and what you try to do is to help them to understand oh you have your truth and I'm supposed to respect that but you also have to respect my truth because my truth says I can't say what I know to be false and so what you have to do is if anything maybe never use the pronouns always call him a Betty or whatever name he wants and get around the pronouns like that but you cannot in good conscience as a Christian call a boy as she that's where I draw the line now Justice oh my Justice you know people today say um everything is a justice issue if you want to attract attention and to get people on your side just call it a justice issue now here's the problem when Justice is severed from the Bible and God's righteousness when that happens Justice can go in any direction people want even in the Book of Judges you know when the people the Bible says they did that which was right in their own eyes we could translate that they did that which was just in their own eyes so the word justice is being misused today and applied to everything and every agenda imaginable for example you have marriage Justice which is same-sex marriage you have reproductive Justice reproductive Justice is of course abortion you have all the issues of uh you know the whole issue of the Border you have that Justice you have immigration Justice that's the word I was searching for and now you have bread Justice one of the most important verses in all the Bible and I wish I had looked this up before I came on today because I it's a very important verse I do think I have the reference Isaiah 59 verse 12. it could be verse 14 where it says this righteousness stands afar off and Justice is not allowed to enter because truth has stumbled in the Public Square so unless we get back to biblical truth people can tag that word justice onto any agenda that they want and what we need to do and this is why the social justice thing is so complicated you know there are people who say well shouldn't you be in in favor of Justice you know what does the Lord your God require of you but to do justice well yes but it's biblical Justice and that has to do with equal opportunity it has to do with equality before the law it even has to do with giving to the poor it has to do with those things but biblical Justice using that word can't be tagged onto any agenda that we want and justify it and say that this is a just cause thank you [Music] all right I want to share a little bit with you about our next sponsor and that is good ranchers I love good ranchers I've said it guys not only is the quality of the meat so good but you don't have to go to the grocery store and watch your grocery bill increase every week with inflation because if you sign up with good ranchers which is a home meat delivery service that shows up right on your door frozen ready to go in the 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goodranters.com use the code Elisa American Meat delivered [Music] seem to be sort of collapsing in into the same thing like you have the Justice you have trans ideology radical gender Theory the wokeness when it comes to even discussions having to do with race and things like you mentioned uh you know giving the land back how do we navigate that conversation and I'd like to just sort of talk a bit about the transgender ideology because one of the things that has really just lit me up lately as far as just what I've been really interested in and kind of I've been awakened to the social contagion aspect of the transgender ideology and it specifically how that's affecting young girls of course we know it's not just girls that are being affected but um young pre-teen teenage girls are being affected at um you know just more dramatic rates than young men and of course you know prior to recent times there were always people who had gender dysphoria it was really quite rare but today it seems like at least among the kids that are my kids age that's actually how you fit in I mean if you don't have a letter from the lgbtq you know rainbow if you don't get to identify as one of those letters you're really not in the In Crowd and so it's it's really like a social contagion among so many of our young people why why do you think that is and maybe you know whatever else you want to say about that topic I'd love to hear your thoughts first of all the reason it's a social contagion is remember this uh Elisa most Christian parents even don't raise their children the culture does and the culture does because of the influence of Education the media and the cell phone so you're absolutely right many uh kids consider themselves out of the mainstream unless they're trans and you and I know and this is deserving of tears that many young women have surgery that is really irreversible because they want to become a boy now you just think long term as to what that really means and how lives are going to be destroyed and are being destroyed and more of these people are beginning to come out and to let the world know that this is not the direction to go but now to your question a teenager comes home and says Mom and Dad I'm trans what do you do what do you say first of all knowing teenagers listen very carefully because teenagers will not respond to a quick response especially if it comes judgmentally and then they'll say my parents don't really understand me so listen carefully but then explain this self-perception is not an accurate guide as to who you are you can go into a psych ward and you can meet people who genuinely believe that they are Napoleon as a matter of fact I heard a story one time about a man who said I am Napoleon and the man next to him said who told you that you are Napoleon he said God told me that I was Napoleon and the other guy said no I didn't no maybe this self-perception can be wrong now the illustration I use in the book that we're talking about no reason to hide is that of anorexia you and I know that a young woman looks into the mirror and believes that she is overweight when an point of fact she is starving herself to death now should we say Well only she knows who she really is so we should have no input into her life which is of course the Contemporary Mantra you know only you know who you really are well no you might be mistaken as to who you are we have to help our young people to understand that they do not have a body problem they have a mind problem and why is it so right that the body should be mutilated to conform to the mind what's wrong with saying that the Mind should conform to the body and you're right there's a small percentage of people I read about one in ten thousand who genuinely has gender dysphoria but now everybody seems to I mean by everybody I mean so many of the teenagers they're all trans and why is it that they are so confused on this point in the book I have a chapter on education particularly as it is here in the state of Illinois I talk about the pornography and how every sexual deviation that we can think of is normalized as a matter of fact the title of the book is It's Perfectly Normal now put yourself in a classroom and you're in fourth or fifth grade sexuality of course interests you you're beginning to have sexual desires you're shown this you're told it's normal you know internally because of your conscience and because of your parents probably that this is not the way it's to be this is sinful so what happens you become depressed you don't know how to handle your shame you don't know how to handle this and then what you do is you think you know what I have so much internal emptiness that I don't really know how to deal with you know what Mom and Dad I think I'm trans maybe if I became a girl it would finally bring about the kind of peace and unity within me that I am seeking when in point of fact the issue has to do with what they are being told the issue has to do with guilt and that's why as parents it is so important for us to help our young people to understand the Forgiveness of God and the cleansing of God that's right because Elisa you know right well I don't know the ages of your children but you know that children are going to see things that they shouldn't see they're going to be introduced to Concepts and images that are destructive and so there's no use trying to put our heads in the sand so to speak what we have to do is to help them to understand that God not only forgives us but he can cleanse us from all unrighteousness and the answer to your guilt and to your shame comes through Jesus Christ Our Lord and you don't have to live that way so that's the hope of the Gospel in the midst of this very very confused world yeah and it's absolutely everywhere here's an example um recently it was in the news that American Girl has produced a body image book for young girls basically answering questions like you know how should you feel about your body they address things like eating disorders well I actually got a copy of the book because I wanted to look at it myself and I was I gotta say even though I kind of knew what to expect I was shocked they have um this book is aimed at Young pre-teen teenage girls and it's basically telling them hey your gender identity might not match up with the sex you were assigned at Birth so here's what you should do experiment with baggy clothes and a buzzed haircut maybe you could try some frilly dresses I mean basically just telling them to try all the different stereotypes and then pick what they are and then they elevate they have um you know stories of different uh quote-unquote girls who are in the book actually trans so they're actually boys and then they they teach intersectionality there's a whole page on intersectionality about how your gender your level of ability your race um all of these different categories intersect that make you who you are I mean just teaching girls that all of this stuff is your identity and if your body isn't if you're not comfortable in your body you it actually says in the book you can go uh to your doctor and get you know medications and things that can press the pause button on your puberty and then it says if you don't have a trusted adult who will help you with this there's a list of resources so they're basically telling these young girls if your Mom and Dad aren't on board with your transition you know look at page 97 because we're going to give you some resources so I just wanted to say that for our audience because a lot of people might think well this isn't going to come to my house right this isn't going to touch the people in my life but it is it is the number one thing that kids that my kids age group is facing to the point where it used to be when you'd say you know you'd meet somebody for this first time you'd say hi nice to meet you or something along the those lines are how are you today it's hi what are your pronouns that's that's the kind of pressure our Christian teenagers are under it's just a little compromises the little uh the little lies that we concede to one by one and it kind of reminds me of Christians in the first century we like to talk about the more you know Fantastical persecutions like being burned in Nero's Gardens and all of that of course is is true and inspiring but you know it there was also this sort of Daily Grind kind of thing where if you were in someone's house you would be expected to bow to the household Idol if you didn't bow to the household God it was really considered disrespectful and very quite quite rude you know so I I like to equate that with the pronouns because it seems like that's what our culture is asking us to do is just these little tiny little white lies that we concede to that really end up in big lies with things like the American Girl book and just the the ideology that's just pumped into our homes Elisa what you have just said is beyond horrible I had heard about that but I don't have a copy like you do and to think that they are telling these impressionable young girls who are trying to find out who they are they're growing up in a world of competition that they have all of these different options and of course kids like to explore they like to think well this is the answer as to who I am it's totally destructive as a matter of fact it is demonic it is demonic because what it wants to do is to destroy these young people make them confused as to who they are for the rest of their lives and I like what you're saying I hadn't thought of it quite that way before but it used to be what is your name and now it is what is your pronouns as a matter of fact I read somewhere that the people who tour the White House they are asked when they come in what their pronouns are can you believe that in other words in a world of Absolute Total absurdity but remember this all who are listening to us today you have to realize something it used to be that absurdity was an argument against something but we're living in an age in which absurdity no longer can be used as an argument against something as a matter of fact the more absurd it is the more uh possibly it's going to be implemented now let's think in terms of how ideas work you know it's often been said that ideas have consequences and bad ideas have victims if you take Darwinism which is taught in the schools that there is no God that we came up through the impersonal World remember that Darwin said he knew that we had a side of human nature that was evil he said Satan came to us through the baboon who is our grandfather so with baboons as our ancestors we've come up through the animal world we are no better than animals except that we are farther along the Continuum but we're all part of the Continuum we're not created in God's image what then is there to keep us from saying that a mother should be able to kill her pre-born infant or infanticide when you have animals that are born d uh you know with deformities you take care of them put them to sleep and then of course on the other side like is happening in Canada and I was born in Canada you know 10 000 people euthanized euthanasia so what arguments do we have in a world in which God does not exist and in which we in a sense create ourselves and this illustration comes to mind and it really refers to something that you mentioned earlier and that had to do with the exaltation of the self and I am the one who determines who I am and I have no Creator if anything I create myself I got this from John Stone Street and I use it in the book imagine let everyone imagine that you are in a big city and your laws but if you have a magnet if you have a compass I should say you know where North is and if you know where North is then you know where South is and you know where East is and west but let's suppose that you have a magnet in your backpack so the compass always points to you you have no idea if you're going in circles you don't know who you are you don't know if you've made progress you don't know if you know there's any True North at all it's all up to you and you can imagine the confusion that happens in the midst of a world like this and Marx taught us that the family had to be destroyed because after all it was the unit of Oppression mental pressed their wives children oppressed their parents they took them to church God was the ultimate oppressor so with the breakup of the family so many young people today have no Rudder they have no North their life and they are just adrift it is indeed if I might mention the phrase again deserving of Tears boy isn't that true in your book you have a section that's called how an Evangelical Church goes woke I'd love to talk about that um you you tell a story of a friend of yours uh where uh the church had an all-white staff but the congregation is diverse reflecting the makeup of the neighborhood um Everybody white black blue collar White Collar professional Factory workers all assemble focus on the gospel Worship the Lord together and then you tell the account that your friend gave about when the chaos and culture broke out talk a little bit about that because I think that the reason I'm interested in in your thoughts on this is that back when I was researching Progressive Christianity yes Progressive Christianity was very social justice oriented and I mean that in like the critical social justice not biblical Justice uh type of idea but you know generally speaking you had Evangelical churches that were doctrinally sound and then when the George Floyd thing happened you started to see otherwise doctrinally sound Evangelical churches start to embrace this kind of wokeness that the progressive church had been embracing for quite a while and I I you know I wonder if that's not a bit of a trojan horse for this these kinds of ideas in the evangelical church so talk about how does an Evangelical Church go woke well let me give you a little bit of background it used to be in the 80s and even the 90s we were working towards uh racial Unity and just so that your listeners know at the Moody Church where I served for 36 years and I'm sure that this is still true today On Any Given Sunday we had more than 70 different countries of origin represented and we rejoiced in that because according to Revelation 5 around the throne there were going to be people from every tongue and people and Nation so we were working toward what was called racial reconciliation but critical race Theory came apart and tore everything apart and what happened with the death of George Floyd a tragic death indeed is suddenly many churches decided to get on the bandwagon as I reference in the book and as you quote and now they began to see one another in oppositional terms so whites were being blamed and you have whiteness over against blackness and of course social justice does not take into account the human heart it's all based on skin color so you know I I quote for example from uh the book you know white fragility about what happens there when suddenly whiteness becomes the enemy and not true not true racism but just whiteness so what happened in this church that I described in the passage that you referenced what happened is the pastor decided that in order to keep up with a culture and he thought he needed to do this to make deference to the minorities he began to divide the church with a form of social justice that destroys rather than builds where there is blaming and where there is shaming now I'm glad we're on this topic and the reason is because the Bible has an answer for this that cannot be found in critical race Theory critical race Theory can only tear apart it can never build together it's it's intended to divide the racist Saul Alinsky of course here in Chicago began that in the 70s he began to see that Marxism could be applied to race and destroy the culture because you need chaos before you get a Marxist State you know through the Providence of God when my wife and I were in Colorado in a swimming pool I met a man who worked for Saul Alinsky he said we had many good ideas to help the under-resourced communities of Chicago but olinsky stopped us he said don't solve problems use them so what has happened is we have the tearing apart of the various skin colors the various ethnicities rather than bringing them together now how does the bible answer this Colossians chapter 3 verse 11. we have to take this slowly because this is profound in Christ there's neither Jew nor Greek Bond or free scythian scythians they were Marauders that went through the country barbarians who sometimes acted barbarically but Christ is all and in all what Paul said is this Jews don't become Greeks Greeks don't become Jews barbarians don't become scythians but there is a Transcendent unity in Christ that we have to work together for and if I might put it as clearly as I possibly can in a single sentence critical race Theory keeps tearing apart everything that Jesus died bring together it makes us see one another shout at one another across racial differences and racial walls and really biblically the Bible would say we really don't have a skin problem we have a sin problem and that's what needs to be dealt with but of course today it's all a matter of skin I have to add this in the book White fragility you remember the author says that blacks cannot be racist because they're not in power now imagine what is she is saying she's saying that the answer to racism is for one Power Group to overcome another Power Group it's that conflict Christianity says no the answer to racism is to Bow humbly together at the foot of the cross and then get up from her knees and ask what can we do together to make things better hmm that's good well as people are watching this and listening to this it can feel overwhelming there's race issues there's the sexuality component there's uh conversations about you know who owns the property and should they give it back I mean there's all these confusing things going on and we've talked about just the little compromises one at a time that can be tempting to engage in but I wonder if you could just give us some really practical advice as Christians living in this culture um what do we need to be thinking about I know I heard you say on uh one talk you were giving you need to be prepared to stand alone and I loved hearing you say that because I think that's something that in America where we've been kind of comfortable up until now like maybe we aren't prepared for that but maybe that's something we need to get prepared for but what kind of practical things can we be thinking about as Christians to stand for Jesus in this kind of crazy culture Elisa before I answer that you'll notice I always give a preamble to the answer I want to add a footnote to what we talked about the church compromising you remember I mentioned uh you know churches that go woke it's not only because of the racial issue it has to do with sexual issues and the reason that that happens is because of a wrong view of Love Love Is Love we hear well isn't that interesting love can be evil let me say it flat out when Adam and Eve sinned they didn't stop loving they just started to love the wrong things love is a pleasure lover self lovers of money so it's possible to love evil so a wrong view of love is taken and it is used to stretch and to justify same-sex marriage and other things all under the banner of Love herein Is Love that you keep my Commandments Jesus said and in the Bible Love Is defined all right now to your question about standing alone a school teacher in Chicago here in the Chicago area in the public school came to me and said this he said I was told that it is not enough for me to Simply tolerate same-sex marriage if I do not celebrate it I could lose my job all right for him it's a Line in the Sand he cannot celebrate what God has condemned so what's he going to do he has to stand strong and if he gets fired my next question is is the church going to come around him and help him and say look we're in a new era we intend to stand but we can't stand alone we need one another because you know you have a wife and children we want to help you financially and in every other way because we're living in New Territory I have visited the Soviet Union even before the wall fell and in some communist countries since the fall but during those days boy Christians hung together you know they would meet together to pray when there was food and they fed us very uh luxuriously you know they gave us lots of food it was brought by multiple families because nobody had enough money to feed us just on their own we're going to have to rethink what standing alone for Christ really means so I would say this to your audience I do not have a one-size-fit-all but every person has to ask themselves where do I draw my line the other day a businessman texted me and said can a Christian sign this declaration it had to do with his business I said there's some of it that you can sign but some of it you can't because some of it had to do with multiple pronouns so are you going to lose your job you might have to for the sake of your integrity and we could go down the line and show where Christians are going to have to take a strong stand but I believe very deeply it is necessary for us as Americans to rethink our view of suffering for Jesus Christ you see because we've also always had it so good you know we've had governments that have been generally favorable to Christianity we've had laws we've had courts that we could depend on well those days are going away so the question is this how are we going to react to this and do we see suffering as a badge of honor or are we to the point where the idea of suffering for Christ seems to be a very ridiculous idea who in the world would want to suffer for Christ but if you look at the Bible and in the last chapter of my book I delineate six or seven lessons basically from the New Testament regarding suffering what you'll discover is suffering always positions people to have a new kind of witness even the martyrs had a new kind of witness suffering also means that even when we're thrown into the hands of the devil we are still in the hands of God and that of course is proven by the church in Smyrna but also blessed are you imagine this we've quoted this verse many times but it comes to us with new force in our age blessed are you if men revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake great shall be your reward in heaven for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you so to the believer out there you're going to have to determine since we're talking about standing alone we're your Line in the Sand is and you're going to have to say with Martin Luther here I stand I cannot do otherwise my conscience is bound by the word of God I cannot and I will not recant now Luther believed that when he said that he would be put to death he was supposed to be put to death but for some very interesting reasons he wasn't so the night before he prayed I wish I had a copy of the prayer here Elisa it is unbelievable he spilled out his heart to God and he said oh God where are you when I need you are you going to be with me when I'm strung out on the rack when my body is turned to ashes will you be there he had no special sense of God's presence but he believed in God's bare word and of course he said those words which became a great turning point in church history so what we need to do is to understand that we must live for another world this is so critical it says in the book of Hebrews that you suffered and it says you were glad about the plundering of your property I don't know of a single American myself included who would be glad because of the plundering of my property knowing that you have a reward in heaven so ultimately we're going to be tested as to how much Jesus Christ really means to us whether or not we have loyalty to him we may have to put some sacrifices even on our families but we have to know that ultimately we're accountable to God and we have to say here I stand I can do no otherwise so help me God well I want to thank my guest Dr Irwin Lutzer for such a great discussion I hope you feel inspired to go out and live boldly for Christ in a culture that is becoming more hostile to what we believe as you all know I love Southern Evangelical Seminary if you're wanting to go deeper into your education maybe looking at some higher education options Southern Evangelical Seminary is the Seminary I recommend I'm a student there and I learned so much every class that I take go to ses.edu Elisa you can download a free ebook there and take a look at some of the options see what SCS has to offer I love that they are standing Faithfully for Christ they are engaging with the topics in culture and they have a three-pronged approach to every class apologetics philosophy and theology every class you're going to get that three-pronged approach ses.edu Elisa well thanks again for watching today be sure and subscribe rate and review it all helps us to get the word out sharing this out on social media sending it to your friend is recommending It Word of Mouth is very powerful to get the word out on things like this but in the meantime as we serve Christ let's remember to keep a sharp mind a soft heart and a thick skin see you next time [Music]

Channel: Alisa Childers

Views: 131,783

Keywords: apologetics, progressive christianity, deconstruction, live your truth, another gospel, historic christianity, alisa childers, podcast, philosophy, christianity, truth, gospel

Id: UMrLJj9Au1g

Length: 57min 46sec (3466 seconds)

Published: Sun Apr 16 2023