- Good evening everyone. I'm Lesley Donna Williams,
CEO of Wits University's Tshimologong Digital Innovation Precinct. Tshimologong meaning
place of new beginnings. I'm also quite fortunate to be a member of the inaugural class of the Obama Foundation's
Leaders: Africa program. And it's my privilege to be
joining you this evening. Madiba, many of us who
have been privileged and are privileged to have
been born in his lifetime, holds dear memories for many of us. My first interaction, which
is very special to me, is having met him on my 15th birthday when he came to my school in
Eldorado Park in Johannesburg. And the reason why this is important is because he had a knack
of going into places that are often not seen and not heard. His practice of servant
leadership and personal sacrifice has inspired me and
people around the world to go beyond personal gain
and take action on issues that affect our generation the most. This evening I'm joined
by two special individuals who have a unique understanding of the power of Madiba's legacy, the ability to wield moral authority, empower young people, and provide access to education, thereby creating a strong
and vibrant Africa. Ma'am Graça, a champion of
social justice, education, a symbol of moral authority to us as well. A strong activist who is female as well. (Graça Machel laughs) (audience laughs) President Obama, who
through his foundation, is investing in the power
of young people like me to transform our communities
at home all around the world. Fourteen years after
having met Nelson Mandela, I had the privilege of
celebrating yet another birthday, this time watching Barack Obama becoming the 44th president
of the United States. (applause) As we celebrate Madiba's
life during his centenary it is more important that we
connect and that we reflect to the spirit of his
work and the reason why we come together to create
a stand and unify together on the changes we want
to see in the world. President Obama, Madiba said, "A frightened
world cannot think clearly." Both you and Madiba had
a way of connecting to the power of positivity
instead of fear and conflict to address change, social change. In today's age young
people, we find ourselves in a world where we're dealing
with issues of xenophobia, of inequality, of further
segregation in the world. Do we always need a common challenge to unite around these issues? Or can common hope be a possibility? And also, how do we go
about designing that? - [Obama] Well first of
all, good evening everybody. It's good to see you guys. (applause) And I just want to call
out Lonnie Bunch somewhere (applause) for having achieved this
magnificent institution. I could not be prouder
to be with Graça Machel, one of just the best people I know. - [Graça Machel] Oh my goodness. - [Obama] Across the board. And anybody who knows her
knows her wonderful spirit and leadership and I
could not be more proud to have Lesley here, who
is an example of the kind of young leadership that
exists across the continent of Africa, here in the United
States, and around the world. And I wanna give a shout-out somewhere to Mary Zimes as well. (applause) She made this happen this evening. I promised I was gonna give short answers (snickers and laughter) even though they're big questions. And there is always a struggle
between hope and fear. Between the world as it is
and how we'd like it to be. And during times of tumult and disruption, whether it's technological,
economic, information, migration, the danger
of us resorting to fear, to organize ourselves,
falling back on tribe, race, ethnicity, sectarian lines. That always becomes strong. That's been true in this
country in the United States. You can actually track
that when the economy is doing better, typically our politics is less divided. It gets more divided
when people are feeling insecure and anxious. It's true in South Africa. It's true everywhere. The good news is that fear
is typically the province of the old. And hope is the province of the young. (applause) There are occasional
exceptions like Madiba, who stayed young at heart, throughout their lives. Never succumbed to cynicism
and always believed in the possibility of
human connection and mutual understanding and rational thought. All of which then could
contribute to a society that works for everyone. But the thing that I always
remember from all his speeches and his reading is how much
joy he took in spending time with young people and
investing in young people. The reason is because you don't come in with preconceived notions
about how the world has to be. A child isn't born with
suspicions about somebody who's a different color. They have to be taught that. I think the more that we're
investing in young people around the world and in our own societies, the more hopeful I am that we can overcome some of the challenges and
problems that you mentioned. And I'm gonna stop there,
so that you can ask Graça a question. - Sure, so ma'am, just
speaking on the theme around connection, Madiba's
friendship with Uncle Kathy, Ahmed Kathrada, is quite legendary. They remained friends and
allies until the end days. In fact, Madiba went to
the extent of negotiating for the release of the political
prisoners on Robben Island before his own. How do you go about
finding those true values within people to connect to
them and choose your allies? How do you decide who
you're going to stand in the fire with? - [Machel] Hm. I think one
of the gifts which Madiba had was to be able to identify
in every single human being the goodness in those
people, including in those who were his enemies, became
political adversaries, and actually he had to be
alliance with them to bring about the profound transformation, which took place in South Africa. Let me go back to this. I believe what helped him to identify this is because he took time
to transform himself. But even when he left the Transkei, he was actually a young man, A Xhosa man. But if you remember why
he left the Transkei, it's because he refused to
take a wife who had been labeled for him and was
being offered to him. And he said, "I have a right to choose," and he ran away actually
against his own guardian because he didn't want to take a wife, which was not of his choice. Why is this important is
very young he asserted his individuality and
right to make choices. Then he goes to Johannesburg, A Xhosa young man, but then he's exposed by
the like of Walter Sisulu to the nationhood of South Africa. Remember, at that time the
Transkei was Bantustan, so for him to understand
South Africa as a nation and to understand the
diversity of those who made the South African nation, we have to remember it was Walter Sisulu who played a role in his life. And that has transformed
him from this Xhosa person to a South African. The important thing with
this, to answer you, is it was through that process, for
instance, which Madiba moved from being strictly, let me say, tribal and to value and even
to overcome the barriers of race. When he meets the likes
of Ruth First, Joe Slovo. When he meets even in term of ideology, when he meets the ones
like the Moses Kotane, who tells him that, you
know, despite the fact that I am black and Xhosa like you but I recognize the
value of the Joe Slovo, the value of Ruth First
and of many others, and that's when they come
all the other colleagues with this, so it had to be a process
of reinventing himself to understand that he could
not be part of the struggle if he didn't recognize the
value and the contribution in each diversity of the
people he was exposed to. So that carried him along his own life, and we don't talk much
about the time he had to negotiate, but it was a process. You would tell me now, how did he manage, for instance, in prison to work with people who
belonged to the PAC, who belonged to Communist Party, all the parties who agree. It was a process in which
he learned to extend his humanity to recognize
the humanity of the others. And then he took it to
the big picture of now bringing the nation together. I don't think he would
have been able to do that if he had not had this journey. I was too long, but if
you are saying allies, you say allies. Most of the people Madiba
worked with were not allies. They were his colleagues. They were part of him. The only time he had to
look at the other side and to transfer himself to the other side, to the skin of the other, was when he had to negotiate
with the national party. And then he recognized,
you don't negotiate with your friends. You don't negotiate with
your allies, of course. You negotiate with those
who have completely different points of view of yours, but you come to the middle of the space. So to respond to this, how,
I think any one of us here, we have to have that journey individually. Otherwise you will not
be able to recognize and to value other
people if he had not had internally the process which helps you to recognize and to value others. (applause) - [Williams] From that
point, President Obama, Madiba did spend a lot of
time listening to the concerns of opposition. Even forming a special
committee within Parliament to take on their views. Have you had a point where
you've held a strongly held view on something
and you changed you mind, and what brought that about? (laughter) Also, as young people
ascending leadership, what are those points where
we do need to step back and be open to shifting
our view on something? - [Obama] Well, I think Graça's
point about self-examination and self-reflection as a tool
of leadership is absolutely crucial at whatever level. It's true if you're heading
up a nonprofit organization. It's true if you're heading up a museum. It's true if you're heading up a business, and it's true if you're
heading up a country. Because if you don't know
what you stand for and what your values are and what you believe, then you also don't know
what can be compromised and what can't be compromised. What's of lasting value
and what is situational and temporary. And I change my mind all the time. Based on facts and evidence. (applause) - [Machel] Exactly, mmhm. - [Obama] I've said this before. The challenge we have in our politics in every country is when people start conforming facts to their opinions and
biases as opposed to trying to shape their opinions and
biases based on the facts. Because if you're starting
off based on facts, then we can have a discussion. We can have an argument. And you can change my mind
because you can prove to me that well, actually, I may
think that the moon is made of cheese, but then Graça
will present to me facts. The astronauts went
there, and there was soil. Footprints, and they came
back, and we have photos. So, and I may change my mind. I can't do that if I deny facts, so that'd be point number one. There are times where changing
your mind also requires listening to other people. And I'll give actually a
specific example of this. Throughout my young adulthood
and my early political career, I had always believed that
members of the LGBT community, gays, lesbians, transexuals,
etc., should be treated equally under the law like everyone else. As somebody who is a
member of a group that's been discriminated against,
it violated my core principles to think that the state would discriminate against somebody else. But I'd say early in my political career, my general view was when it
came to same sex marriage that you can just have a
civil union with all the legal rights associated with it. You don't have to call it marriage. It doesn't create as much
conflict with respect to people's religious predispositions. It will be fine. But of course it wasn't my place to say it was gonna be fine. And so when I have close
gay friends tell me, you know what, this does
not make me feel fine. Because this is not simply
an issue of contracts and me being able to visit
my partner in a hospital. This has to do with the stigma that I feel that I am not the same
being able to join together with somebody I love in the
eyes of the state, right. Particular religious institutions
have the right to make their own rules, but this is
a state recognized marriage. Listening to the pain they felt in not feeling that
recognized allowed me to say, "You know what? That
makes sense. I get that." So one of the things I
think I may have mentioned to the Obama Fellows when I met with them 'cause I say this whenever
I talk to young people who wanna change the world, the first thing to do if
you wanna change the world is shut up and listen
because we always assume we know what's best. But before you can actually lead people, you need to know what do
they feel and where are they coming from? What's their perspective? What's their story? And I think the challenge
we have in our politics is that similar to people
wanting to block out facts, we wanna block out other
people's stories because it may contradict our
predispositions and biases. Openness to other people's
experience and new facts requires a certain kind of courage. And it goes back to your earlier question about hope and fear. Fear induces closed-mindedness. We like to build up barriers to prevent us from hearing things that
may force us to reexamine who we are and what our attitudes are. And letting go of that
fear, I think, is important. And leaders who feed fear typically are also ones who avoid facts. (Machel laughs) (applause) - [Williams] I'm going to
stay with you for a minute, President, and I'd love
to hear Ma'am Graça's view on this as well. So in many of, I mean around the world, there is still seemingly archaic
view of the role of women in the workplace, in society,
and many of these beliefs are often brought about our
perceptions of our culture through our religion. Our traditions, our religion,
our culture shapes that. What are some of the firstly,
do we need to steamroll those beliefs to be more modern? But also, what are the
unintended consequences of social fabric if we do? - [Obama] Let's have
Graça answer this first. (laughter) Because I find that if
I suddenly have a whole bunch of opinions about women, that are offered before
women offer the opinions, at least in my household
I get into trouble. (laughter) That's some wisdom there. I just wanna communicate to all of you. - [Machel] Let me start
by challenging the notion that the way women are
being treated in society is because of religion,
you mentioned religion, and you mentioned also
what you called traditions. No, you said culture. You said culture. And I want to challenge this. You know, there's no
really culture which denies the dignity of human beings. It's culture. It's traditions, and if
you like, this social, you know, constructs. Along centuries, if you
like, which have been for reasons if you go back again to use the President's words, to the facts, which led people who
were in position of power to develop those social
constructions and to say a woman and a man because
they happen to have different sexes, they are different yes, but that they have different value. Because it's not a question
of being different. It's the value which is
recognized to a man and the value which is recognized to a woman. To say a woman has much value, there's nothing in culture
which will tell you this. There's nothing even in
some religions although along the years it has been
structured in a way we believe it's a religious issue. You go to Islam. I'm not very familiar, but
I have been told that no, it's not true, that Islam
in its essence which discriminates against women. So let's disconstruct this, you know, and accept that if it is
man-made, it's constructions. Then we can deconstruct. And we shouldn't take it
as if because it's culture, because it's religion, it cannot be changed. It can and it must be
changed because it is, you know, (applause) it is constructions of us people. Now, coming to you, young
people, because I would like to challenge you exactly on that. Because you have much more
opportunities in which you relate and you work with young men, and young men work with you, and they recognize the value
for reasons of the kind of work you are doing. You are doing excellent job. There's no reason you
would be discriminated, and perhaps this had
effect which have to use in your generation against
what we did in centuries to deconstruct. And it was said that it's the
dignity of the human being, which is in each one of us. Second, and then the value, it is not determined by sex. The value is how you
contribute or not contribute to your society, regardless
of the sex you have. And that this conversations, I think they have to be very
deeply discussed amongst you. You mentioned the issue of workplace. Can you explain to me for goodness sake, why a woman who is highly qualified, very experienced, I mean
she has done all the steps you could expect, but because she's female, she's paid less. Simply because she is female. (applause) And sometimes even if she is in position, a higher position, but she would not have
the same salary as a man in the same position. Can you explain this to me? There's no reason for this. But unfortunately, today
there's no one single country, my President, which can say
they have dealt with this issue of equal work equal
pay in a satisfactory manner. No one has succeeded, so you are asking a question
which I will take it back to you because as my daughter, who has had much better
opportunities than mine, using the facts, you have
to begin to take this is one of the issues in your lifetime. I'm insisting in your lifetime. You are going to
deconstruct because you can. And because you also have
the tools of communicating with the millions in one second, this is your responsibility to say, "Ah ah ah ah this has happened to me. It's not going to happen
to your child, okay? Who is my grandchild." (applause) That is the issue with
you, so I think we need to dismiss the fight on this
and to be really courageous to confront realities and to say "Ah ah." It is nothing which
can justify and because it cannot be justified
neither by belief or whatever, we have to change it and
to be at the forefront of transforming this. So I'm hoping from whatever will be, even down there I'll
see you, and your child will have to be different
for the kind of socialization you have had. - [Williams] I accept the challenge. - [Machel] Yes. - [Obama] I agree. (laughter) - The only thing I would add would be, and Michelle and I talk
about this quite a bit, how we educate our boys. - [Machel] Uh huh. - [Obama] Because yes women
have to knock on the door, but they shouldn't have to
knock any louder than boys do for opportunity, and we
create in all sorts of subtle ways entitlements in
our sons very early on that get duplicated and
reflected in our societies. And when those privileges get taken away, they're upset. We teach our boys to
assume if they're speaking, then the woman or the girl, she should listen and
pretend like what he's saying is really smart. (laughter) And she certainly shouldn't
interrupt him or contradict him because well, that's not lady-like. I'm exaggerating, but
we socialize our boys around a whole set of expectations. They grow into men who have expectations that if they're mediocre, they can be the heads of things. (laughter and applause) That they don't have to be as qualified because to some degree
it's their birthright. And I think in some ways it
again is connected to fear. A lot of our politics
right now is people feeling as if their status and
privileges are being taken away. Or at least that there's
competition for it. And that's probably as
true in gender relations around the world as anything. And so men get scared 'cause they know, "Oh, she actually might be smarter than me or is working harder than
me or gave birth and that looks really painful, I wouldn't do that." (laughter) And so there's a reaction. I better keep her down because I don't, what does that say
about my status if there was fairness and a level playing field? And that's built into our
society in all sorts of ways, so how we treat our sons, how we model for our sons
expectations about how they treat their classmates, how they
treat women in authority, how we treat our partners
and our wives and our mothers and our sisters. They're soaking all that in all the time. And as a father of two daughters, so I can't speak to raising sons, but I can tell you my daughters
been watching my wife, and if any young man who's
interacting with them, or anybody who they're interviewing with, somehow thinks they're
gonna take a second fiddle, they are badly mistaken. So you guys have gotta get your boys ready 'cause as you said, a whole
generation of young women are just not going to put up
with some of this nonsense, and it doesn't mean that they dislike men. It means they're gonna call it like it is. And they're not gonna just
automatically grant you authority just by virtue of how you were born. - [Williams] Some Africans
tend to use humor to tackle difference and difficult issues. In fact, Madiba was known
to give people a direct role and responsibility and
package it with a smile. In our mission to build a
unified world and a unified inclusive society, are we
at the point now where we are perhaps taking ourselves
too seriously and steering towards politically correct
language instead of just acknowledging difference
and sometimes having a laugh about it? - [Obama] Look, this is
an interesting question. I would make a distinction
between when we use the term political correctness,
that term originated from people who were accustomed
to being able to insult women or minorities and
not have any consequences suddenly feeling like "Hey, how come I can't do that anymore?" And well, you can't do it
anymore because it's insulting to other people and you should stop that because that's not a
natural right of yours to be able to demean or
put down other people. And so I don't have a lot
of patience with folks who say, "Well, you know,
what's the big deal, you know if somebody's going
to a frat party in blackface?" Well, you know what, you're right. It's not a big deal, so stop doing it because it offends somebody. You'll be fine not doing that. (laughter) Or not telling an
antisemitic joke, you know? There's no reason for you
to do it unless you think it's important to put somebody
down and to ignore history. And if you do, I have
no patience for that. Now, what I do believe is that, and I worry sometimes that
those who are progressive want to extend human dignity
to all people and so forth, start losing a sense of humor, but it's not just losing a sense of humor. It is "I am actively looking for evidence that I am victimized." And that becomes its own
assertion of power, all right? So I want to be offended, and there are times where
people may say something out of ignorance and not bad intentions. They may use the wrong words, but we're not feeling as if
they are exhibiting malice. They are open to being educated. And we have to apply some
common sense to that. And that's true across the board because if you get too
offended in some cases it means that you are presuming
that you've never said anything stupid or offensive, and it goes back to what
Graça was saying about self-examination. I can't get too high on
my horse because I know at some point I've had prejudices. I know at some point I've
put somebody else down. I remember language that I
used when I was a teenager because I was insecure, so I maybe teased somebody
in a way that was cruel. So I remember that about myself. Let me not suddenly be the thought police all the time. And look, how we draw these lines, how we draw these distinctions
I think are important. One rule I would use is that
if there is a group of people who say they are deeply
offended about something, then I think the default
should be don't offend. - [Williams] Lightning round
super fast quick response before we get dragged off the stage. Ma'am Graça and President Obama, I'd like to know very
briefly in your view, what is one thing that could lead to a failure outcome for youth in Africa and what are you exceedingly
optimistic about? - [Machel] What makes me optimistic? I'll focus on that because
I don't have much time. It's exactly what I see
emerging even, if you like, like bubbling amongst young
people on my continent. You know, if you look
at how, for instance, the kind of civil society organizations, which they organize themselves, they take initiative. They don't need to be
asking permission of anyone. They organize themselves. They define the agendas
of things they want to do. They, with no means materially,
but using their creativity, I mean to find solutions
to their own problems. It means, you know,
what they have is tools even when they came from
school without skills. They're developing skills of organizing, defining priorities, and working together to find solutions. If you look at, for instance,
the issue of entrepreneurship on the continent today. It's mostly young people who
are at forefront of that. And yes, we know we have this
big challenge of unemployment. It's not governments
who are going to provide employment to young people. It's mostly them through entrepreneurship, through also the contribution
of private sector and in the development skills, etc. But this way the answer
is because otherwise we will be dealing again, I will use Madeleine Albright yesterday, is that the solutions of
21st century are to be found in 21st century and not using the methods of 18th century. And young people are teaching us, I mean to look at the challenge of today and to take up the responsibility. - [Williams] Take initiative
and get organized. - [Machel] Exactly, yeah. Get organized and take initiative
and solutions, results, very concrete things. - [Williams] President? - [Obama] Well, I think Lesley's
an example of the people that we've been convening, working with through the foundation. They are extraordinary and
if you meet any of them and you hear about the work
that they're already doing on the ground, you can't
help but be optimistic. The danger is not that
these young people will have a failure of imagination
or energy or innovation. The risk is that old people
don't get out of the way. (laughter) And I think that the part of
the reason that Michelle and I decided to focus through our
foundation on training the next generation of leaders is because we've had the opportunity to lead, and it was an extraordinary privilege. And we don't depend on
an office for leadership, but it does mean that
you have different roles to play at different phases. And the most important
job we can play now, and I think sometimes African leaders, American leaders, leaders everywhere, forget this, is that there comes a time
where your contribution is not on the field or on the court but it is as a coach. It is as a mentor. It is as somebody who is
helping to guide, connect, resource, spotlight a
whole range of new talents and new energy that's coming. And I think that if those of
us who've had the good fortune and the blessing of serving
their people in some capacity recognize that then our
job is to help you succeed. If we do that, I have no doubt
that not only Africa will shine but so will the world. (applause) - [Williams] Thank you. - [Obama] Thank you. - [Machel] Can I take the
privilege of old people, huh? When President Obama came
to South Africa last year to celebrate with us the
hundred years of Madiba, I said something which
I would like to repeat to people who are in this room today. We celebrate Madiba because
in the 20th century, if you look and you say,
"What kind of a leader who was able to carry the
aspirations of millions of people across the globe
and millions of people would identify with and
to feel this is the leader who represents me?" It's Madiba, right? And in 21st century, if you
close your eyes and say, look around and say, "Who
is the leader who carried the values and aspirations
of millions of people? And those millions more
people see themselves in that leader?" Who is it? - [Audience] Obama - [Machel] Obama And no no, I haven't finished. I haven't finished, I haven't finished. And I made it a point
that time that you know there's something which might
sound politically incorrect as you were saying, it just happens. It's a fact, again, it's a
fact that in 20th century it was a leader who is of African origin. In 21st century, it is also a leader, ahhhhhh, you hear me? (applause) And me, and I'm saying
me as a grandmother, I take pride on that. I take pride on that. And my President, I want
to say there are many similarities between the two of you. Between Madiba and you. Yes, perhaps as well. But it just follow the facts
that when you step down, the first thing you thought of, it was to invest in young
generation of leaders. That's precisely what Madiba did, okay? It's to understand that what I am, what I have achieved, it can be achieved by millions of other young people. And as you were saying, the
important is to create space and then to coach them,
and to allow them to fly. I just wanted to say thank you. This is what we need. (applause) - [Obama] Thank you. - [Machel] Thank you, thank
you, thank you, thank you. (applause)
