Reloading Powder Scales & Measures ~ Put your money away!

welcome back well as you can see I'm charging up some cases here very soon they'll be rated two-seat bullets and I'll be able to get out shooting with my anticipated rifle that should be showing up sometime tomorrow just got to get the scope mounted on it and I'll be ready to go now you're probably wondering why I'm not up to speed with some of the most digit most digital equipment on the market and I'm still using this old antique I guess you could say in the antique measure well yes it is it is old and probably antique after work I certainly would be antique I bought this in 1972 and also I bought this Lyman made by a house 505 balance beam scale in 1972 they've been serving me very very well throughout the years as a matter of fact with absolute precision now you might say well I've had I've seen these and they just don't turn out very very accurate loads I have an answer to that for you because I think this is some unfortunately little-known information out there that can make your major work a lot better than it may be working so we'll talk about that we're going to talk about also the different types of scales and even the automated digitized computerized trickling scales that boast you know greater efficiency better speed more uniformity and all that stuff of course you know there's not not cheap you know we're talking hundreds of dollars in some cases so let's get at it I'm gonna review the the measuring device balance beam scale and digital scales digital skills are great but I'm going to review what I consider to be actually a benefit of the balance beam scale over all the other types and we're going to talk about just how to set this up also to various methods of charging cases so that you can have different accuracy results with different powders that are more demanding and also finally we're going to go into what the accuracy results are in reality for different types of error in other words if you have a if you have a couple of tenths of a green error throwing powders bulky powders in this type of measure what what does that result in downrange I've done some actual tabulations based on velocity charts you know from from the quantity ballistic calculator and I put together some numbers based on the actual error of throwing charges so let's get at it let's begin by talking about the most crucial part of the measuring operation and that is an accurate scale now either way a digital scale or a balance beam scale has has more than enough accuracy in order to get the job done but before we just dismiss a balance beam scale let me talk about its accuracy this scale right here relies on the simple physics of gravity in other words the the balance beam is as ancient as history itself when this fulcrum which is a sharp knife ground edge balancing on a gauge stones which are precision there's absolutely no friction whatsoever when the zero is out to zero its repeatable isn't repeatability is unerring it simply will return to zero every time unless the unless the actual weight changes and it will record that with great precision in other words it doesn't have a sensitivity of plus or minus a tenth of a grain as a lot of digital scales do now a tenth of a grain sensitivity sounds like it's pretty accurate I'll show you the repeatability of this scale first well I've got a 200 green nozzle a petition bullet in this scale and I'm just gonna I'm just gonna throw that in the pan and weigh it up there's also a test of the precision of noiseless bullets bingo it comes to exactly zero now if I lift this pin up and put it back down it should if it has good repeatability in other words no sensitivity it should return to zero each time which it did at that time I can lift it up put it back down it's repeatability is you could do this all day long and it's always going to return to zero when that is on the zero there is absolutely no error whatsoever there's no tenth of a green arrow up or down no what is a tenth of a green error plus or minus which is very frequently advertised in literature online all the catalogs literature will say is plus a minus so here we have here we have a charge charge X and here we have a charge of we'll say that that charges 30 grains of powder now we have a minus 1/10 of a grain and here we have a plus of 1/10 the green well we actually have is a 3/10 of a green variation from one load to another it doesn't sound like that when you say plus or minus a tenth of a grain but that's exactly what we have she has the she has the desired target charge and here's a plus grain a tenth of a grain and he has a minus a tenth of a grain so you have a charge of 30 grains you have a charge of thirty point one grains and a charge of twenty nine point nine grains that's the degree of error that many digital scales will produce including some of the most expensive scales of questions of the hundreds of dollars that's the desta guaranteed accuracy that they will produce all right let's take a close look at this RCBS powder measure and see what makes it tick now a measure has three principal components you've got the powder reservoir you've got the measuring drum and you've got a plug in a spindle which controls the depth of that drum and the volume so let's take apart the device and look inside this is your this is your wiping area this is where the powder comes down from the reservoir and it must be cut off by this surface and this is the discharge end of it right here and this goes down and typically you'll have two or three different sized dispensing orifices and these should match most closely the case that you're charging and it should be as the largest you can use for the case diameter that you have they just simply just simply allow the case to pop right up against it or you can charge directly into your measuring pin the tracks drum and this is the this is the threaded side where the plug goes in the measuring spindle and this is the this is the charge this is the charge hole that goes by the top surface that cuts it off these surfaces of these surfaces a knife-edge so that they will in fact cut off powder now this this has been rotated and rotated or is it probably it could be very well a couple of million times and you can see there's no where runner whatsoever these things are so durable it's amazing it also has this one here has got three holes you can change you can change this from a left hand operation to right hand operation you can also control which way the handle is mounted and whether it's mounted towards the toward the center or give you a greater leverage so you can accommodate it any way you want and here is the here's the spindle now you can you can get this is a very simple spindle and this spindle right here is shows nocked graduations some we'll dismiss these as being you know rather crude but they're not in fact this works exactly like a micrometer spittle micro micrometer spindles that have a vernier scale shroud on the outside with you know lacquered black with white and numerals and and markings it has it has a spindle exactly the same inside it this one's not as sophisticated but it can be used with the same almost the same degree of precision you're not measuring thousandths of an inch or on a piece of steel I found it typically a turn of an eighth of a turn I will give you whatever precise measure you need for the smallest granules of powder and that can easily be you can record these settings by this is this is the locking collar right here you can simply take a measurement from the locking collar size and note the graduation the larger marking will have a numbered graduation so if it happens to be at the number this one here happens to be at the number five you can simply measure there were four graduations between the major graduations so in those graduations are the threads themselves so in other words you can have a graduation of four and then 0.5 which would mean two turns of the floor and then you can set it you can mark in your journal that plus an eighth or plus a quarter or whatever it is to give you a return to accuracy so you know the micrometer spindles are great but you know you don't have to spend that extra money in order to get the same degree of accuracy all you need to do is just simply record it in your journal the same way that you would have to do it with the micrometer this is key this diameter hole right here this this is called the small capacity drum trust me get the small capacity drum if you're interested in accuracy the small capacity drum will give you very very fine accuracy the large capacity drum is the one that typically comes standard with the unit it means that you have to go out and buy the small capacity drum in order to get the kind of accuracy that you should be able to expect but you are you getting enough powder into this drum this one happens to charge 65 to 67 grains of any kind of powder I put in it that accommodates cartridges all the way up through all the 3006 charges that you can that you can deliver and even to even to some seven millimeter Remington Magnum cases so it's not by any means small it's what I would call that a standard sized drum the other one that they call standard size drum I would classify as a magnum size drum when you have a small wiping area you have you might call it a smaller amount of square inch surface to cut that translates to a much finer degree of accuracy ball powders would this measure I can I can charge sometimes with virtual perfect accuracy some powders will charge with within about two or three tenths of a grain which I'll talk about that in some cases it doesn't make a bit of difference in terms of accuracy and I'll explain it we'll go over the go over the results that I showed but in any case it throws them very very quickly and if I need to make fine adjustments I can certainly throw light charges and then go to my scale and then trickle them up and we'll talk about that process another way I've cared for this drum through the years are very simple every now and then I remove it from the measure and I just inspect it make sure it's got no rust on it which as you can see is still perfectly glued then I wipe it off and then I wipe a my gun rag my lightly oiled flannel rag on it and after afterwards that that applies a light coating of protective oil to that bluing then I take a clean rag a clean absolutely clean cloth and I wipe off all that oil what I'll have is a a blued surface that will remain glued and stay in good condition this is like I say this has been in my basement now for over 15 years and it was in a in a basically house environment for the remainder of the years ago back to 1972 and it's in pristine condition so that was my care of it through the years you want to just make sure that you get all traces of oil off but by wiping that a little little bit of oil on it removes any fingerprints that you've applied by handling it and it ensures that it will give you a good long service forevermore and return your do the same thing with your plug just wipe that off make sure that this face is clean and that and that fits precisely into the bore of that drum and with the measure just simply wipe the inside occasionally that's all there is to it be careful not to get any any oils or anything like that inside this now the thing that keeps this lubricated is the powder self smokeless powder contains graphite and that graphite will keep this instrument working good shape so without touching without touching the blued portion just simply insert it carefully without without twisting so you don't want to you don't want to scar those surfaces return the plug to the threaded side you do not want to use any oils here because they'll cause no end of problems or your powder your powder will stick to it and snug it down with a judicious turn you don't want to over you don't want to over tighten with a new measure or a freshly-cleaned measure I recommend that you fill the reservoir with your smokeless powder never ever ever use black powder in these you'll blow your house up you want to take your container and just simply run full reservoir for the mega and that will ensure that any traces of oil or removed and it will also lubricate that drum with the graphite and the powder a little bit about the manner of operation you should always fill the drum complete your charge in the up position the drum the spindle is facing down and the drum is facing upward to fill for the next case that's how you finish drop your charge and then return it and you're ready to go for the next case if you do it in that way all the time you'll have consistent charges the other thing is to use a consistent down up down and if you use that particular speed you'll make sure that you're dropping your entire charge check the cases weigh them and determine what your degree of accuracy is with different powders that can range the full gamut from having extremely accurate charges if I set this to pistol sized cases and I charge a flake powders or small ball putters and things like that which you used for pistol cases it's it's really like charges within the tenth of a grain always never never with any error whatsoever if I'm charging if I'm charging heavy bulk powders such as I am my forty sixty 4h 4831 things like that those are those are like miniature logs those can sometimes hang up a little bit and you can feel it and feel the drum cutting those powders coarsely but you'll be very surprised that that the charges will come out quite uniformly if you feel that it's an unusually heavy stick where it really Hank hangs up just simply drop it back into the hopper no I'll go about the business of different ways you can ensure greater degree of accuracy now whether you're using a balance beam scale like this or a digital scale I'll show you the process of setting up your powder measure so that you can accurate dispensed charges without too much delay first of all you want to make sure your scale is zeroed if you're using a digital scale you want to use your test your test weight you check weight to be sure that you've set it and it's calibrated correctly now make sure that your knife edge if you're using a balance beam scale check to make sure that your knife blade is centered between the end posts so that it doesn't cause any friction with your with your weights I'm setting it to forty seven and a half grains so I simply move this large beam weight over to forty five-plus on this right hand side I set it to two and a half that gives me two and a half plus 45 is forty seven and a half grains this side measuring five grains per increment in this side over here measuring a tenth of a grain per increment and your scale could certainly vary so make sure you check with the manufacturers directions now once I've done that I want to fill my pin and bring it to bring it to balance or in the case of a digital scale just simply fill it until you get up to your whatever desired weight I'm looking for forty seven and a half grains here I happen to be using a Kota which is quite coarse now right here it's not balanced it's swinging a little bit high but that's fine because I can take a little bit of that out this is not the precision part of the process or all I'm looking to do is get a rough idea of the bulk necessary to fill up my drum once i've done that i'm i'm near to a zero drop it into the empty MP say that again the empty reservoir would the drum hole facing upward drop it in what I want to do now is look down the side and be very sure that that hole is capturing every granule make sure that the drum is facing sideways so I basically I've got the the back wall of this measure here is capturing the powder gently not you don't want to turn it forcibly but gently close that reservoir hole until the powder is captured and you filled up that reservoir and that's all your is to it did that once that once that drum is filled to capacity gently then pour your powder in nearly to the top I like to bring it to within about a half inch of the top keep your powder container on the bench so that you know that you're always using that powder we'll throw two or three charges into the pan just to settle the powder it's always a good idea and you first wrote it put this on the scale and see how close it is right now it's measuring light some powders you know certain ball putters you can almost guarantee it's gonna come up to zero the first time because they compress nicely and uniformly this one here it tends to be a I'll loose my granule powder so we're going to open that up I open up by a good half a turn but by doing it that way by filling up there is a reservoir first from the pan we went a little bit far we'll bring it half way back this should be about right now there are two different there are two different methods of charging cases you can charge cases directly by using the averaging method where where the beams the beam will balance both above and below and on center with about equal regularity that's that's a good averaging method and that works fine when it's when it's doing that you can just simply go read along one case after another and charge them directly the other method if you wish to deal with powders which are more bulky and tend to have greater degrees of error is to use the trick trick glop method the trickle-up method is simple just drop a few charges of coder into your particular some reason powder trickle is seem to be the left in little the last pages of a lot of catalogs I wonder why they don't they don't want you to know that you can trickle up your charges and get them very precise I think that's Mike that's my guest you know they always want to they always want to encourage you to spend more money on things thinking that you can't do it efficiently this way now these trick lives work you know like like a concrete truck does it has a screw inside and the the powder simply follows along that screw and dispenses it so I can trickle up my tragedy by throwing a slightly light charge that when there happen to come out very very slightly light and I can bring it up takes no time at all let's see how long it would take me to do ten cases we'll start it up that's one that's true that's three that's for right six seven eight nine from the last one ten okay you can run that back and you can put a stopwatch to it and see how long it took me to do those loads maybe I'll do that before I post this video now I want to give you an idea of how this works out in relation to some of the automated units that this is charging when I was doing that I was charging great dead zero in other words plus and minus absolutely nothing there was absolutely spot-on without any error whatsoever now how does that compare for instance to some of the digitized mechanized scales with dribble the cases in well I were just watching a manufacturer's video and he just spent 30 grains of powder 30 grains is a very small charge I mean it's about the it's about the size of a charge you might put in a 6.5 Creedmoor so it's a viable charge but as for its very small I'm charging forty seven and a half grains here wouldn't make any difference if there was dumping 65 grain because it's just the same Klunk Klunk Klunk it makes no difference how big the charges it's going to take the same amount of time whether I'm tracking one-and-a-half grains or if I'm charging you know sixty five and a half grains so speed has nothing to do with it with this system but with the automated trickling system where it dispenses it from a mechanised computerized homogenized machine that takes 14 seconds I timed it took 14 seconds to deliver a 30 grain charge 14 seconds is an awful long time I haven't I haven't turned back the clock yet to see how long it took me to do one of these charges but I don't think it was 14 seconds even if it was even if whatever it was I could do any number of charges regardless of the charge weight with this system now using so is it quicker well I I dispute that it would be quicker is it more accurate absolutely not this is dead rate rate to the zero accuracy their claimed accuracy is plus or minus a tenth which I said shows a 3/10 a pot of potential for a 3/10 to variation because of the sensitivity of the computer chip okay let's finish it up and take a look at some numbers for down range performance if you have errors in your charge okay now for illustration purposes I turn to the 6.5 Creedmoor page and this is an equal-opportunity channel so even though I don't own a 6.5 Creedmoor it's a very popular contra so I'm going to use that one to demonstrate I'll go down here to haizen VAR --gaq Kota which is a popular powder used in many cartridges and it has a starting charge of 32 grains for a velocity of 23 71 average velocity that is and an average velocity of 20 598 with a charge of thirty five point eight grains when I say average velocity coders do not produce exact velocities with given powder charges they only produce average velocities some with greater degree of accuracy than others now what I did with those with I did with those velocities my my goal was to ascertain what the spread was between the lowest and the highest for velocity and the charge spread so the velocity spread was 227 feet per second and the charge spread between those two was 3.8 grains from that I could vary after I plug that into my calculator it came up to a foot per second change per grain of 60 feet per second that's easily divided by 10 for 1/10 of a grain which comes out to an average of 6 feet per second per tenth of a grain error so if you have a target charge what I did was now I move this out of the way so it doesn't read through the book I took all these numbers directly from the quantity ballistic calculator and copied them directly onto my spreadsheet I rounded off the highest velocity of 2598 to 2600 feet per second that's just for for clarity two feet per second up I've bumped it up to 2600 feet per second average velocity and what I did was I added a six foot per second error that would represent a tenth of a grain variation now that that tenth of a grain variation is a constant so in other words two tenths would simply be double that and three tenths would triple it and so forth up to whatever whatever error you happen to have in Europe and your powder measure and your the powder that you're dispensing so you can easily determine what the error is with your particular coat of measure by weighing it on the scale and you can compute these you can compute these same sorts of figures as you can see it produces I used it as a zero of 100 yards that's right here I used a zero of 100 years whatever zero you want but I wanted to see what the actual drop beyond 100 yards was and how it how it changes by having a tenth of a tenth of a grain error incremental errors up to 200 yards there was none recorded I'll show you back up here there was no no error recorded whatsoever so out to 200 yards we have right here minus 4.2 inches this is not M away this is inches minus 4.2 inches there is absolutely no difference out to 200 jobs error at 300 yards we pick up an error of a tenth of an inch at 400 yards it remains an error of a tenth of an inch I'm I suppose those are on the outside of the envelope of each tenth and at 500 yards we have an error of three tenths of an inch you can read it yourself you can determine for yourself whether or not a tenth of a grain of Despenser accuracy is something to worry about even I think even if I were even if I were a 500-yard 600 yard target shooter I certainly wouldn't be concerned about four tenths of an inch you know there's this farm war this farm were to concern yourself with then a tent then a couple of tenths of an inch at that range you know you have arrived and all sorts of things that can put you off target by by many inches let alone a tenth of an inch well anyway I'll leave that up to you again you can multiply these errors by whatever you want you can multiply it by 5'4 1/2 1/2 a grain of error but that's an extreme amount of error that I very very rarely see in my dispenser but 1/2 a grain of error at 500 yards would give me 15 tenths of an inch that's an inch and a half error at 500 yards I hardly think that that's going to concern me it might concern you so that's why I virtually all the time use straight from the powder measure and I don't worry about weighing out each charge so there you have it that's the story about the powder measure and the scale whether you're using a digital scale or a balance beam scale and I you know I frankly I would I would go out and buy a balance beam scale tomorrow this is the same thing I would I would not go digital the digital scale do have they do have a certain benefit if I wanted to weigh bullets and things like that they have they have that this is hard this is hard to put certain types of items in but you know but for checking for checking the accuracy of anything there's nothing that beats a good balance beam scale that has good repeatability that's the key is repeatability not all balance beams be able to created equal this one here produced by Oh house has got you know extremely fine accuracy that's right on the button every single time but even even still what regardless of what you're using know how to clean up your dispenser every now and then and keep it running make sure that you get yourself a small diameter drum and get away from that large diameter drum because they just simply can't produce that sort of accuracy with each charge and don't think that the small diameter drum is but for pistol cartridges not by any means 50 grains even if even if our CVS has changed it to only 50 grains 50 grains is a big charge and if you're charging larger cases you just simply half the charge and then do do it double charge so if I was doing a 60 grain charge with a 50/50 grain drum I just simply divide the tried to to two so I'd have 230 grain charges dumpling boom boom and there you go and I show you how those inaccuracies may not be as compelling as some people I think tend to believe they are you know I often for many many years I concern myself about whether or not this beam was swinging a little bit when I was charging rate directly from the dispenser now you know no knowing what I've seen with that I know now that it has no bearing on it whatsoever just so you know last summer I did a shooting demonstration with my 257 Roberts with the model 70 featherweight and I was using strictly drum dropped charges with this dispenser I did not bring them up with a trickler and that was with H 4831 powder which is very very coarse there's like dispensing little logs it cuts off every single time and that was producing very very fine accuracy at a hundred yards and it was still produced very fine accuracy out to a thousand yards because you know a 3/8 of an inch group only is multiplied times 10 out 4000 yards so remember that it's not as big a deal as a lot of people concern themselves with thanks for watching don't forget to subscribe Benny sends his regards you just do an absolutely great thanks for watching god bless

Channel: GunBlue490

Views: 332,191

Keywords:

Id: LzGaPv_3oWQ

Length: 35min 53sec (2153 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 27 2019