Post Office Inquiry: Alan Bates delivers brutal assessment of bosses

20 years lonely campaigning but ever optimistic it's taken a while in coming hasn't it but we get there in the end Mr Bates versus the post office real time real life but hang on what followed wasn't Alan Bates at all but this the problems with disclosure are capable of creating very significant pressures the inquiry chairman noting that the post office was still being so obstructive in failing to produce documents that the whole inquiry risked being adjourned at lunch break we caught up with the post office chief executive you're so slow at it that we're talking about derailing it today that's appalling well I think I think as SN said um we could slow down the process it's extremely complex we've done it may be complex don't you accept that as appalling conduct here and now we have we have no desire at all to do anything other than speed the process up so that Justice is delivered I'm not asking about your desire I'm saying don't you regret that your organization right now behaves like that it's appalling you're suggesting that sometime somehow it's some sort of cultural problem it really is not I'm telling you what I'm telling you what the inquiry heard we are trying to make sure that we deliver and disclose as many of the documents as we possibly can 176 million documents we've been through last year the inquiry threatened the post office with criminal sanctions over its failure to supply documents promptly the whole truth and then to Mr Bates yes Jason beer KC for the inquiry said he'd only been a sub postmaster for a few years that's a relatively short period isn't it it is sorry it is but it's due to post office not to myself quite the comedy black the humor Gallows across the day a detailed catalog of a man begging the post office to see its computer system was dangerous flawed only to be sacked how did receiving this notice make you feel I felt they were they were going to make um a lesson of my case because a number of other people knew what was going on that time the post office saw documentation of the organization upholding the final dismissal from his job of Alan Bates Mr Bates said this was a process which had happened entirely behind closed doors it was described as outdated stalinistic management designed to bludgeon its will onto the poor sub postmaster you had copious support from the post office no he said they listened to you no they responded to you no they had a helpline useless and they smeared him calling Alan Bates unmanageable and unsuitable to be a sub postmaster was that ever put to you that you were unsuitable to be a postmaster no but they'd appointed me in the first instance the laughter died away because then back in 2003 a warning from Alan Bates to the post office I can assure you if my continued and now increased resolve to bring the real facts of what is going on to those who will have no choice but to act regardless of whether it takes years Civil Service documents then disclosed that the main reason the then post office minister Ed Davy finally agreed to meet Alan Bas was because civil servants were worried that Channel 4 News was covering the issue not because they wanted to act on Mr bat's behalf I was lied to just like sub poost Masters were lied to the courts and judges were lied to ministers of all parties so I really hope the inquiry uh holds people to account for their lives on an industrial scale this afternoon this Marathon inquiry already 3 years old landed something of a bombshell how the post office managed to leave a paper trail about the importance of not leaving a paper trail it set out in an email to post office chief lawyer Susan kryon in 2013 the risk of notification is that it would look bad for post office limited if it ever became public knowledge that post office limited has notified its insurer in January this program first broke the story of how the post office did in fact contact its insurer because it was so concern concerned about its Horizon computer system and the legal advice a cover up it is recommended that rather than sending a formal written notification post office lawyer speaks to its insurers and verbally notifies them so as not to leave a paper trail Andrew Parson's senior partner wble Bon Dickinson wrote that as Alan Bates left the inquiry another warning if you don't prosecute these people we will whether it's undertaken by the authorities themselves or whether we as a group have to bring some if the authorities fail us once again we'll have to wait and see the inquiry continues in central London tomorrow Alex Thomson with that report well I'm joined on by labor MP Kevin Jones he has long campaigned for justice for the victims of the post office Scandal and is on the horizon compensation Advisory board thank you much for coming on the program again Kevin Jones what did you make of today's hearing then well I mean it showed the tenacity of Alan bat somebody I think it's a great privilege to know is him and his campaigners have finally got to where we are D the truth but what it's outlined again is the uh culture at the post office completely rotten uh and the idea that Nick Reid is still in place I I find remarkable uh the idea that the uh sir wi Williams's inquiries I'm to drag screaming and kicking documents out of the post office still is completely unacceptable it is unacceptable and frankly astonishing given the kind of public profile of this whole Scandal how do you explain it Well it Well it is well I think I've been involved with this campaign for many years and it doesn't surprise me the arrogance Rich Allen referred to of the post office is there still today Nick Reed's got to go uh and some of the Senior Management have got to go without that and a change of commitment to really change uh and cooperate with the uh inquiry then I think things will be held up still again but I think fair to SN Williams he very clear is going to get to the truth I mean he I mean Nicki did say that they would corporate uh and yet the documents that are needed in order to kind of achieve some degree of Justice here especially criminal justice they're still not forthcoming so what should happen next well action action speaks louder than words it can it can say that but there weasel words uh the facts of the matter are is that uh the documents exist they need to be provided the inquiry and as Alan's quite rightly said what we ultimately need to do because this is not about mistakes this this is about cover up conspiracy and damn right lies uh and if we're going to get Justice for individuals they're going to have to ensure that we find some of these people in court to answer for what they've done I mean we've had public inquiries about other scandals in the past that did not result in Criminal charges is this one actually going to be any different well it's got to I'm sorry I mean I think myself and certainly J are both not others uh and I think there's enough evidence out there now to show that some people not only knew the facts but covered them up and also in 2017 remember spent a 100 million pounds of taxpayers money defending a case which they knew they had no case to defend I mean James Al when he was showed the the secret tape recordings that we broadcast and Alex Thompson's pieces a few weeks ago James said to think that a British institution owned by us could behave like this is just terrible it is an extraordinary thing isn't it that we've got to this stage well it is and over the years James and I have actually questioned ourselves sometimes thinking is this really TR can be true and it has been true that's been a remarkable thing about it but remember that it's quite evident now from the tapes that you've uncovered they knew in 2013 they continued to prosecute people send people to prison and also then spend 100 million pounds of taxpayers money uh to try and cover this up and that's just remarkable okay so finally how confident are you that there will actually be criminal charges leveled against those people who are you know responsible for hounding hundreds of sub postmasters over the years well I I'm determined that there are there are and I think you know some people at the moment are hiding behind s wi's inquiry I think the police should now be looking at some of the evidence that you produced others because there clear conspiracy here this is not people making genuine mistakes so this is an appeal to the police to say get on with it well I would because there's enough evidence now that's come out and obviously more will come out at the public inquiry but we couldn't just hide behind that because ultimately people like Tom Brown my constituents who came first to see me and got me involved in this who sadly passed away before Christmas he wants Justice his Justice he wants people held to account Kevin Jones thank you very much indeed

Channel: Channel 4 News

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Keywords: Channel 4 News, Post office, post office scandal, postmasters, Horizon scandal, Post Office executives, sub-postmasters, Horizon system, channel 4 news, channel 4 news exclusive report, post office horizon scandal, post office post office inquiry, post office latest, post office latest news, alan bates, alan bates vs the post office, alan bates post office, alan bates post office inquiry, post office latest news 2024, post office 2024, post office scandal latest

Id: F_xa_WVc8x8

Length: 9min 34sec (574 seconds)

Published: Tue Apr 09 2024