Polygamous Mormon Cult “Lost Boys” (a former member takes them in)

had the big lost voicing it was it was big on the news St George was flooded with kids I think the youngest that we had was 13 to 20 you know obviously they want the women there cuz they need they need the wives because in the religion you know you're this prize and I feel like when they left it was more of a push we got more phone calls they found their own ways out we just got them after the fact to help them back into the world when they all came back from Alaska they all lived together there was probably 10 it was very bizarre and Ben you're like I'm used to living with 28 siblings what are you talking about [Music] yeah hey my name is chalice an Sola and this is Colts to Consciousness where we discuss leaving high demand religions or organizations and finding healing and Independence through awareness and true individual sovereignty if you're only listening and you want to see our faces go to our YouTube channel at Colts to Consciousness where you can join in on the convers ation you can like subscribe leave some comments for our guests here it really means a lot when you leave those words of encouragement because they are coming on and bravely telling their stories for all of us to learn from and grow from so today's guests you've probably heard me talk about them before I've mentioned them in a few episodes and I finally convinced them to come on and talk about their stories it is my cousin and her husband her husband grew up in the flds which is the Fundamentalist latterday saint church a breakoff from the mainstream Mormon church back when they stopped practicing polygamy and these other break offs started happening because they wanted to continue the sacred Eternal practice of polygamy and you may have heard of the flds because of Warren Jeffs who is now in prison there's a whole documentary keep sweet pray and Obey about Warren Jeffs but his life specifically Our Guest today was before Warren came into power so we're going to hear a little bit of a different perspective so thank you so much for joining us Ben and Wendy Barlo thanks for having us you're welcome it's so good to have you here so Wendy's one of my favorite cousins I just have to say that we grew up together and grew up doing a whole bunch of crazy things um even though we weren't supposed to because we were supposed to be good little Mormon kids but you know here we are the rebels of the family and Ben it's so awesome to have you as part of the family and I've really enjoyed getting to know your story just through Wendy and through our brief conversations so I'm just really excited to hear more of that today and dive a little bit deeper into your life in the flds thank you yeah we have a lot to talk about including the reason I wanted Wendy on here as well is because she was actually helping you and helping your siblings leave the flds and they call them Lost Boys so we've had so many comments asking if they there's men out there who have 10 12 wives 1 2 3 four wives what happens to all of the other boys who aren't getting any wives so I really wanted to bring you on and get your perspective on what happens to the boys that they kind of either they don't really care if they leave or they push them out and they call them Lost Boys so did I do that Justice yeah that's yeah that's pretty much what what happens there yeah they would uh they didn't really care if we left but they did like looking back you can see that maybe they didn't care as much as you thought there's obviously a numbers game there if there's more women getting dived out to one dude then you're going to run out of women that's why they started marrying younger and younger and younger right so we would get um kind of pushed off and not so much like pushed away but it was the women never left the girls never left it was just the boys that left and I think part of that of us leaving is we would get out in you know in work in construction and things and see the world where the women they stayed you know at home making sandwiches making babies cooking dinners that was that was their role yeah that makes sense so actually before we really dive into your specific stories would you mind just telling everybody kind of the basic rules around living in this compound because you actually were in this kind of isolated Community right yeah so growing up there you didn't think you were different than anybody else we thought we were of a higher power if you want to say it that way we were um the chosen ones God's chosen children and you know what they call us Nephites or what have you Gentiles they didn't know any better so we were we would forgive them a little bit but the people like me that left the religion we were damned and nothing things of Satan were going to be upon us and you were apostasis yeah so you had that fear if you left God would strike you down with the B of lightning you know type of deal to get back to your question how it was living there you you are in fear of God right instead of having a loving God you like you they would you would think they would teach but and in in a way they would say that yeah it's a loving God but if you really got down to the nuts and bolts of it if you didn't do what they said then the bling of Satan were going to be upon you and you're going to be damned to hell I was like oh well yeah that's terrifying so you were living what you would call the fundamental fundamentalist practices of Mormonism so polygamy was the number one thing because as we know Joseph Smith said you need to practice polygamy to get to the highest level of heaven right yeah so men needed to have multiple wives I don't really know did they ever talk about if women had to be a plural wife to get to heaven because that was never mentioned at least from what I know in regular Mormonism they had to have three wives and so if you were a fourth wife you already going to make it into the Celestial Kingdom and people are probably familiar with with that's the top one kingdoms worked right yeah so there's like one two or three I forget the other two but that's the one you're focused on right so you had to have three wives and you my dad only got two so I don't know what happened there he missed the mark you missed the mark on that one poor guy yeah so you had to practice polygamy modesty was very very important at least I know that when Warren came into Power uh ruan's son things just got really out of control I would say I think that's safe to say right the war was kind of in control when I was there cuz his dad was on ding near hospice I guess you would call he had all sorts of you know cash flows he had a full-time doctor he had a full-time nurses you all around him all the time he was like on oxygen when we' go to church and Warren would get up and talk for his dad because he'd say oh my dad can't talk which he couldn't the the EMT would have to go Rush him out half the time his little beepers was would start going off whatever because he'd come hooked up to all this stuff that was towards Rand or Warren's Reign whatever that's how he kind of took power he just slowly his dad was dying and he you know put himself into power so and I wasn't there for that day but yeah whatever okay so before Warren came into Power what were the modesty standards for men and women so we just have we'd have to be to your neck all the way clothed and you'd have a full bodysuit which your garments right I think the Mormons have a two-piece we'd have a full piece with a flap in the back and it it was like a a paint suit what buttons up in the front kind of like the old western movies that's our garments but then we'd be fully clothed and we'd be out there in the construction site fully clothed like that the women in their little Prairie dresses would be out tending the garden with these big fluffy dresses out there pulling weeds in the garden and making sandwiches what have you right I think when most people think of Mormons they think of the flds because it's been so widespread just a photo of what the flds women look like because I found at least when I went different places other than Utah and people found out I was Mormon they'd be like oh kind of look at me like you look different or that's not the kind of Mormon that I know of and they would ask how many moms I had and I would get so mad um because I didn't know that people were still practicing polygamy I was like guys that was over a long time ago I was so naive but the dresses that's something that a lot of people associate with Mormon so it's the big puff sleeves were you allowed to or were they allowed to wear short sleeves or was it always down to the wrist no so you had to be to wrist and Ankle all the time okay and they would wear pants underneath them giant dresses too okay like Bloomers or actual like denim yeah bloomers and denim yeah oh really my sisters wore denim probably most of the time I don't know I'd have to I guess I could text her asked her if I texture long pants underneath their dresses and like big boots they had to cover everything that sounds miserable in the summertime and we lived in the desert yeah it was hot yeah okay and then as far as I'm aware when Warren came into Power he even decided what colors were allowed was that also a thing when you were there so he started in uh Alta Academy that's what it was called that's where he kind of started his his Reign you know that's how he got godian if you per se was he was the principal there as my principal okay so the flds had their own private school so I would love for you to tell everybody what that schooling was like because now that you're out I'm sure you have a different different perspective on what it should have been I only went to third grade but anyways third grade in Warren school that is so in the Ala Academy I'll just tell you how the classroom was so we had the boys on one side and the girls on the other side even though we were probably all now thinking back on it they were all like cousins and family members it shouldn't have been that weird but to have us all sit together you know the boys and the girls but that's how we that's how they ranged the seating throughout their whole entire school they separated them the men from the women and having waren as the principal now looking back on who he is it really it's kind of creepy and sick yeah of how close he got to some of the the girls and some of the the boys too that's kind of how he started his doctr or whatever you call it you know he better better than Hitler I feel like far as like how many books he's wrote in and how many um I know he he would put out flyers on how to do things with your wives right really he would put out audio tape on how to do that stuff too he's gepy dude you know after hearing all the stuff that he did because you don't hear about that stuff tell you're older you know because you don't get those um books until you're older you don't get the the special documents or whatever you call around where he pried documents or something like that he wrote down everything you know if you think back on how Hitler took took rain whatever you know he wasn't the Big H Cho when he started out you know he's just like Warren but Warren he didn't have to use death in a way he used fear but nobody he'd have to personally kill anybody but he's he killed a lot of families that's for sure but his uh that's where it started it was in his his uh ala Academy in in uh it's ala right up there by the we lived in Sandy at the time so we drive clear to his his school up there okay did you have all of the subjects that you know now are in schools because you have kids now so did you have all of the same subjects so we would um we would turn we do like our ABCs and our one 123s and all that stuff but it was priesthood history that's what it's called we would have priesthood history and we would have um I don't know he would just he had so many things I I just can't remember them all after years and years I forget them all but it had so many different papers that he would draw up his own like story books teaching us how to read and he'd do his own like math stuff and when we would get some books from the outside world we'd have to have one of the pried men there and then one of the they call the women but one of the wives would go and edit all the books they have to go draw in draw in sleeves on every one of the clothes draw in a um a dress on some of the the girls they talk about swimming or something like that the women would be in like I don't know just like figurines right it wasn't even because it was back in when I go to school probably ' 80s I'm sure the books today are picture perfect back then but then they had to draw the so the women that were swimming CU they we'd read books with having people swim we' draw the girls in their full Prairie dresses to for the story books he would edit everything everything was edited by Warren it was crazy yeah now think about it but then it wasn't crazy it was it was normal everybody like like you of the outside world we we'd be like oh you poor poor lady you didn't know what's right you know lady wearing a swimming suit instead of a full dress yeah so did they have to actually wear dresses to swim they they didn't even have like Bloomer type of things no so we we never you're never supposed to get un cloth except for the shower right oh so we when we would swim we'd had bigger shirts than this with a giant pocket you know you've seen probably the polygamous boys they have the giant pocket right there so when you swim when you swim swim forward that pocket would fill up with water and you know you're in your whole garments and full on clothing swimming like that so I never knew how to swim jeez I cannot imagine trying to swim in a big dress I feel like that's really dangerous yeah that was really fun when they would when they would leave to look to see them swim was like a child learning how to swim they would all jump in the pool all adults little kids cannon balls and learning how to dive and they'd come up and all choke on water cuz they didn't know how to hold their breath but they were just so happy to swim and that was one really fun thing to watch it was like a kid again CU they didn't get that oh my gosh that's so interesting Wendy watched me learn how to swim at her in their pool so she was like why are you so why why why you want to go swimming again she grew up with the pool yeah lay by the pool and just get the Sun swim let's go play I remember her whole family Watching Me swim that funny they were like every sitting outside the pool we're in oh me and my brothers are inside their pool just swimming away yeah and now looking at us you kids are like old oh my gosh what are some other things that you found simple pleasure in after you left that you weren't able to do before everything was so brand new when you when I finally left everything was so new if you could walk down the street and I put on a different shirt than what you know the the long sleeves whatever I put on I didn't wear pants for the longest time after I left just being able to wear what I want to that was that was pretty nice I can tell you even like for me we go work out we go running he would wear jeans oh no when we would go for a run like no you can wear short that's we used to run everything we did was you're fully clothed right here's some basketball shorts or some like running pants you feel naked you're like oh my knees are showing hold on it took a while for him to even just put on something that's actual something to work out in yeah it yeah it's crazy yeah well the pants that you had to wear were they denim or were they more like a dress pant no they're all denim we would get different color ones my parents would get creative we I'd have a green pair black pair and like denim like a thousand denim ones right so we'd have the three and every all of our shirts were darn near the same color as our pants anyways green black blue you know stuff like that so when you're seing us out on the job site we were all dressed the same just a different color were you allowed to buy store bought things or did you have to make everything so they got crazy after what Warren took power and wouldn't let people eat at restaurants and wouldn't let people um go different things but that wasn't how it was when I was there we could go buy store bought and things and that's how I got to know the people in the world I'm like no these people are actually looking me in the face and saying thank you and you know serving us a meal they're not they're not all crazy about you know this they're not all evil and try to they tell us that the outside world was um trying to come steal us and take us away and turn us evil really as I worked I could I got to meet tons of people and that wasn't how it was right that's kind of how they keep you isolated is by demonizing the outside world so you don't really fully understand and it's it's also something that we see a lot in high demand groups where they kind of call out the behavior that the outside world might mention for example I've heard some groups being like yeah we're a cult we're a cult of God and so when someone says you're an a cult and they're like yes we are but they don't really know what that means like the real meaning of it and they kind of hide in plain sight in that way so when it does come up you're like it it's the confirmation bias where you're like oh yeah they said outside is just sex drugs and rock and roll and then everything starts to fill in with that confirmation by bias and Until you realize that you've been controlled and manipulated you're not able to see oh they were just lying to me and I'm just seeing what I want to see when I'm in the outside world and it's hard for them to get out of that that um how they see it that way you know my dad's still there and his his wives have all been ripped from him and his kids have been ripped from him he he still believe in it so it's that confirmation by us it's it's a real deal he's he's uh he got in a car accident and broke his hip and broke his arm and broke um his collar bone and damn near died my mom died in the car accident oh no and he lost everything couldn't walk for a long time and he still believes it like I was like oh man they left you to die and you still believe it and took all of his money from the insurance payout and all the kids were in the accident as well and all the kids got money and he took their money as well yeah it all most of them he gave the money to the church he gave it all to Warren to Lyall Jeffs oh I'm sure what he was thinking is he's trying to buy his way into the cesal Kingdom right no no joke that's probably what I'm sure he didn't like consciously think but that in the back of his mind like oh yeah this will definitely help me get there or maybe get me my third wife and I'm good right he didn't get it and that's something that is so discreet even in mainstream Mormonism and people will deny it right and left but when you talk about this PID play situation like you have to pay to get into the highest level of Heaven they're like that's not true but you can't get a temple recommend if you don't pay your tithing which is 10% of your income and it sounds like in your case it's even more extreme where they're expecting you to give most of your money to the church in order to be worthy or be holy or close to God is that true yeah so I want to talk a little bit about how they had you working at such a young age so how old were you when you first held a job I think my first paying job where I received a check so you always were working right that was what they call it the work you know they call it the work you are always doing something for the church or for the you know for the fds you're always you're always working for them so we either seven eight or five or whatever it is we're out hoing weeds in the in the neighborhood so you're always doing something for the church helping clean up the neighbors um construction site or you know do something like that but I think I was probably seven or eight when I got my first job working at a countertop shop and uh then from there I always had a job I just bounced around from doing cabinets to framing to concrete to sheetrock to every single trade that's kind of how they um raise all their kids we don't get an education right per se you know getting out and finding out the sum of the kids get get education that kind of sucked for me to find out because I was like oh damn I thought we were all the same know I think it was just um my dad and some of his brothers that got really strict on it and followed warrant I what you call it his Commandments to the tea you know only had us doing priesthood things didn't get us an education and all that stuff yeah and then to find out some of these kids got an education I was like what you went to high school what you got all that no way but whatever it's good yeah that must be incredibly frustrating I have to wonder though how you were able to do construction with just a third grade education I imagine you would need more understanding of math to do that right I don't know I got my GED after all that too so I think if if you're willing to learn you'll you'll figure it out so I I know how to do a lot of different things I call them the plague way and there's no way to explain it other than I have to show you how to do something like I could square a wall I could build this angle I could do that but it's not it's not like um Engineers would do it they draw it up on a piece of paper first I can see it in my head how I'm going to do it I don't know how um because I wasn't taught that way he knows math very well because he's been doing it his whole life yeah so it was hand in hand I could build stairs or what have you at a younger age because we just learned how we learned how to do it the plue way right we didn't do it a that's why I call it now I don't think I call it then I just knew how to do it the profits way I guess what we'd call it the propy yeah so you started working at a really young age doing construction how old were you when you were first hired to be on a construction site on a construction site I think I probably I know get myself in trouble probably 10 or maybe 11 wow working in uh what was I in Park City oh in I know we worked all over the place so we would live in Colorado City we jump in a bus and go to the job site either rent a house or something like that and then build up a town and then sell the house or rent the house or give the house back and then move back to Colorado City we would but we'd be home every weekend to work on Warren Jeff's it was called Saturday work projects but we we'd have to be home by Saturday to go work for Warren for free basically we would call it the priesthood we wouldn't say Warren but we could work for the priesthood on Saturday we couldn't work on Sunday Sunday was the Lord's day and we did the Lord's day for real we start before breakfast we'd start out with oh what the hell they call morning prayer and it would go on go on you're starving by the time you get breakfast you know the women to bring out breakfast and Gobble it up and we have a meeting in the morning at the church with the whole C with the whole town on Sunday and then that would get over and then we'd go back home to our house and eat lunch then go back for our churches were like 4 hours the back of my skull from sitting in church for so long on a Saturday has an indent from sitting on the put my head on the back of the back seat oh my gosh if you're like this then you'd be asleep but if you're like this you just look like you're looking up at God or something right yeah you're praying so even my brothers have like a little indb in their skull cuz we sit on a chair for so long oh my go every week you can feel it when it's right there yeah Wendy and I had to sit through three hours of church growing up but four it sounds torturous and you would go home and eat and then go back to church and then go back so it was all day and then CLA tell like 7 or 8 we would have I don't know what we call the the late night ones but yeah it was only for the pried men that could do the ones late at night and you thought you were cool to do it because you're were finally old enough to hang out with the older kids so it was a it was a fun thing to go do those things to go and hang out with all your cousins to go hang out with all your your friends or what have you and to go to church was kind of exciting too because you got to see all year we're friends we'd googly out each other in in church I'm sure you would do this to some of your buddies or something at church right maybe you guys did different different um hand signals but whatever so what were you actually learning in church what were the main things it would be all Warren's scriptures he like I wasn't joking when I said his his wall of scriptures could probably fill this whole house like he got intense like especially after he started taking rain he would uh I feel like he came out with a new book every other day I never got to reading of his other juicy ones that were for the people that got married but I've heard about him yeah so like oh man crazy it's only crazy now it wasn't crazy then it was just so to hear what he had to say now it's crazy but when you're in there to hear him say oh this is how you do this with your wife and how you do that with you know this is how you act this way that wasn't it was from God we we appreciate it we were glad we were thankful for it to have a spokesperson on Earth you know from God right I mean that's what we were told that's what we're all told Warren was a a God's spokesperson on Earth to the to the crew there to the city people yeah mhm Wendy is any of this shocking to you or are these things that you knew already I knew when I first met him I knew of the flds religion because I went to school down in St George right that's in southern Utah so I played on the soccer team there and when I traveled to other states I knew of the religion beforehand but this just made me more aware but when I traveled to other states people automatically thought like oh how many moms do you have yes and do you have horns where are your horns who knows where that came from yeah I don't know where that came you missing a mom that would be our reply are you missing a mom cuz we get cuz you ask it so many times so would be imagine a little kid pipe it up and saying that that was our always our funny get we get him like are you are you missing one maybe we did take one of yours no oh my gosh maybe my dad did steal your your mom you never know that's amazing so I mean I'm kind of jumping ahead here Wendy but when you guys met and he started telling you more of the intricate details were you just completely shocked or what was your reaction so much shocked I think I was just more interested I actually loved hearing about it his upbringing I don't think was like in my eyes horrible I know they did horrible things I feel the same way too i' just like interview somebody else because I like I grew up pretty pretty I know I didn't get screwed like everybody else did I think some of them I I think the um later kids suffered a little more they didn't have a father in their life he had a father and and had somebody to look up to and somebody to so nobody could have babies or what have you when Warren took power out so he he would tell everybody how they could and couldn't have sex when they could or couldn't make babies right he was in control of everything when he when he took rain oh man you couldn't eat at a restaurant you couldn't you had to only eat what they what the pried women so the women actually became like huge slaves after talking to some of my sisters sorry going on tangent but some of my sister would would tell me how they would just make meals all day long and clean up kitchens and make meals and clean up kitchens and they were just slaves to warrant and it was the end of days right when before he got thrown in jail and the raid happened in Texas or what have you they were just feared for their life that they were going to be if they didn't make it to Texas they weren't going to make it to heaven and and I I get their fear because I was there I lived it their fears their fears were real it was scary I'm sure they were terrified but yeah I don't know why went enough on that one but I did love hearing about his family and about the things that they did and the fun like the cool I love going back to the place he takes me there all the time they have the most fantastic Park I've ever seen in my life it's huge before Warren was there it was all about family it was all about togetherness and being one as a as a group as a United United effort plan that's really what you know you see it on their um you see UAP on the Rocks down there that's what that is United effort plan that's kind of what we strive for until Warren got in there then it was all just a twisted little obviously some of the things were shocking there there's plenty of that like not being able to ever talk to girls or look at them he'll tell you tell him about how you flirted that's a fun one I'm gonna flirt with you ready we had B our eyes and they we have be quick though you got to be quick someone will catch you'll get busted and if you're you're caught floating with another man's wife you're dead uh you know God's going to strike you down so some of those things and obviously the things that I have already like the dresses and I mean you can't talk to anybody outside of your family when you how do you learn how to flirt how do you even learn how to communicate really cuz these women they get married to these guys you know just like my mom's they get married to my dad they didn't know him they never met him before really just get assigned Warren just picked them for you okay did they meet on the wedding day yeah before they had computers well yeah so you live in the same town the ones that lived in the same town but we had groups in Idaho we had groups in Salt Lake all over Salt Lake actually because of that's kind of where everything started and then there was the big group in colos city and there was a group in Canada the Texas scene came later that's when Warren took rain and decided he need to move everybody out if you didn't get to know her in your own little town if you haven't seen her before um if she came from a different town you never met her before you didn't know what she you're so they would send buses up to Canada take some of the women down so they would I like cattle you know if you you breed the same one you get like deformities yeah yep you be like what's his name Kingston group yeah that one or what was that King Tut is that his name that's why he died they yeah king T they he was a that's how he died I don't know if it was like once a year but during Harvest Fest that's when we would have like all the women come from either they' send a bus down here with a bunch of men in it too and they would take wives back with them so we' just like do like a a girl swap I guess but how they would do it we'd had our Harvest Fest um that's what we' call it it's basically like a farmers market what have you but the whole town gets together and makes and just has a a barbecue outside and and does plays and and hangs out this before Warren mhm and then all the women would come down get married to some of the men then that same bus would load back up with women and go back to Canada and marry all the all the dudes up there okay that's how they kind of kept the population from being to incest you know thinking back on it but at the time it was it was an awesome thing cuz then if your sister got bust up there then you would have connections up there and and be able to talk to to different people you know um back then they didn't have really cell phones or anything that we had pagers and landlines so did that happen to some of your sisters NOP okay they didn't get it how many siblings did you have from your mom so we we thought we had 32 I think we only had 28 and then we end up with 26 cuz there was a couple a twin that died and a couple sturns something like that oh okay so wow that's a lot between two mothers two moms yeah two sisters where were you in right that's another important point they were both sisters like actual sisters and Sister Wives so where were you in the lineup of kids in the age I number six to out of both wives so my mom was married first okay I think my second mom didn't get married to him till she other kids so I was I was born before she got there before the second mom got there okay what was your opinion like when another woman comes into the picture were you jealous or no so I was I was really young I was probably barely born oh so I didn't know any different my whole life growing up I'm sure my other brothers might be might have a little different opinion on it but I'm sure they loved it actually cuz then you got more time with Mom you know cuz we we we knew who our birth mom was obviously we call her mom and the other ones were mother and then their name that was fun we didn't never get our third one though did you feel like your other mother took care of you well then she treated the other children like like her own MH that's what I you know I hear all these different stories from other people I'm like oh man we just didn't get get that our family was pretty tightnit and we didn't see other than we knew who are when we're growing up once you got over in started working you see difference you know other than you of course you still have your bond with your with your mom right and not like the other mother I hear about some of the other families that didn't like Jive like ours it was kind of weird like oh we all get along what do you guys yeah you guys have different parents and you have different moms and you guys separate that way kind of yeah have the little some my um uncle's wives would separate their kids from the other kids's from the other wives kids and you guys like lived in the same home yeah our house was a an apartment complex not an apartment a hotel hotel so my dad bought a hotel I don't know where he got it from and then cut it all up and then bring the pieces back and put it on a foundation and and that's where we lived in a in a hotel wait he took apart an entire Hotel moved it and reassembled a hotel somewhere else yeah yeah we did that a lot actually what I did I went down to California and disassembled some of the military base and you if you went walk through Colorado City there's there's all these houses that look the same they're like square boxes with the roof on top they're all military bases that I disassembled in California and put on a ship or on a um a ship on a a truck and sent here and another crew would put it together I think I put together one but I didn't do any more than that that is wild but there's a lot of them that are like that I'm trying to imagine what it would be like I I feel like it might be kind of fun like the whole family having their own separate rooms well no we weren't separate we had six people in a room SI okay so this wasn't a huge Hotel it was like how many rooms were in this hotel so each Wing my dad took apart one of the rooms and made it just a Master with a a door in front of it so you know how like hotels have the hall right down the center yeah and there's room on opposite sides of the theall of the hallway so we had one two three four five that's seven of them I think probably call my sisters you probably correct me but one of them was on each side of the the house was the mother's Suite where he made one of the rooms into a big room took the closet out of it and and made made it and took the bathroom out of it and made it a bigger room and then just used the restroom of the other um room across the street as part of that thing so that would be the Master's restroom it would be the other hotel room that's how both the house is torn down now and I know why it was nasty really it didn't hold up no it didn't hold up at all oh man but we didn't know any different it was it was home it was beautiful I loved it yeah you know that was that's the crazy thing people talk about all the crazy things that happened I'm like oh I remember how much we loved each other and how much I love being around my cousins yeah oh I'm sure glad I didn't get all that didn't get all the Warren Jeffs I left at a good time that's so great to hear and so I have a hard question for you and I'm sure it's going to be a complicated answer but in your opinion if Warren Jeffs hadn't taken over and kind of made it very authoritarian and abusive honestly do you think that the polygamist lifestyle would have been a healthy place to raise kids I think they'd still be thriving right now they are nothing like there there's a few strands of um people that have made a lot of money off of our backs right that they pocketed all the money that Warren Jess was supposed to be getting because he's in jail now so and and they're still throwing my dad's still throwing money to Warren right now so all those guys have like started their own little things but if War J wouldn't have gotten the mech I think we be a huge Community I think we were building a house in a day that's how tight-knit we were you can go online and find the house in a day I don't know who posted it but I'm glad they did it was kind of cool that was part of that house we buil it in one damn day sorry it's okay if you C it's okay I promise wow okay so you having grown up in it and having left do you feel like looking back that it was still a healthy environment for you to grow up in or any kid to grow up in before War I think it would have been after you know seeing how corrupt the world is really right now it actually isn't a bad it wouldn't have been a bad spot with other than obviously the the wife situation but how I grew up it was it was it was awesome interesting we loved we loved our other mom and we loved our um yeah the other mother right obviously loved your own mom more but go been find for just so I screwed the whole thing up yeah I'm sure someone else would have got their little perverted mind in there and yeah it would I don't think it was just one I'm sure there was a lot of other old men that were getting their their corrupted little Minds in there and trying to come even his dad had how many wives it was already getting corrupted yeah so the if I if you look back on how um so I guess I'd have to take that back I guess it wouldn't probably be thriving um you look back at it people that made the most money and contributed the most that's I'm sure that's why dad gave all his money when crash but that already that ship has sailed they needed money now because they were getting sued by everybody in every corner so all the people that had like big businesses and big uh companies what have you that were pulling a lot of money and paying a lot of tithing they got more wives okay they all got their three wives for sure everybody that was rich got their three wives cuz they were they were their P the money they were keeping Warren's back pocket fat so he kept he kept them happy do you recall how many wives Ruan had before he died no he had a lot though it says it in that documentary because Warren took his oh moms moms as wives and it says it in that um keep sweet keep sweet FR be something that yeah is it that one I think it's another one they he had close to 80 or something like that or 100 by the time by the time time he married all his moms it was it was pretty nutty I'm like but the thing about the Warren's and ruland's moms so what we were always told is where we're going to get lifted up and lifted off this world uh and then the world all you Wicked people were going to get burned up you know because the world is going to get baptized by fire right and well there's another story of another uh group of people that got lifted up this world I forget what it was but NE fights or something like that I don't know who they are Lites maybe I got up but we were going to be yeah we were getting we were going to get lifted off the world with them and uh the world was going to get baptized by fire and we were going to get sent back down in Zion in uh in Paradise I don't know where they said back east or something like that no it was right in Missouri isn't it they had a specific yeah yeah that's it that's probably it that was probably it something like that I think so it's the same yeah it's the same it was the same he knew more scripture than I did by far and my family when we watched the Bible stories together Ben knew all the Bible stories because he studied them life he's very versed in all the Bible stories and yeah I remember hearing that too by the time you were 12 you had to read it the book of woman three times and if you couldn't they would you'd have to read it to somebody three times whoa it was nutty The Book of Mormon is not easy to get through I will say I've fallen asleep many a night reading the book of Mormon and try and be a good little Mormon kid um yeah I remember the apocalyptic teachings but they weren't so extreme I guess I don't know what do you think Wendy do you feel like there was a a big emphasis on the latter days I mean as Church of Jesus Christ of latterday saints but did you really feel like it was an apocalyptic Church growing up in I didn't because I don't think I listened to enough you're like it might have been I don't know yeah it could have been but I didn't pay attention enough that's so interesting there yeah I remember that being I mean that was Joseph Smith's whole thing is it's the latter days and Christ is going to come back any second and marry up all these people and do the righteous thing and become a Mormon so that you don't get burned in fire which is really terrifying as a child to think about so I want to go back to the community and how it seemed like you had a great childhood you enjoyed it you were working which is not great working that young but it was way better so we loved it like all of us boys that we would go out and build we loved it so during school we would um we'd have to do War Jeff scripture we had to do it was it wasn't School you you were drilled about the religion again and again during your school so you're just like I'd way rather work right right I don't want to be drilled on this anymore I want to hear the same thing over and over again so to go and work was actually a privilege and how I got my dad to get me out I'd like we we grew up really poor but we we loved it we still loved each other um and I told him like Hey that's how I got him to get me to go work mik wouldn't it would be better if I served the priesthood and got went and got a job help pay for bills at home oh yeah that'd be a good idea you know that's my dad saying off I went to work and I was like no more the CU like every day every single day and as soon as you work wake up you go to a morning prayer and then you go to breakfast and then you go to another damn thing so if it this is how our school went it's how the school day went for my three years actually I went to uh a couple years in in Colorado City so I guess that's who I'm what I'm referring to re referring to we would um go after breakfast go to another church I don't forget we probably call that morning prayer as well but whatever and then you go back get ready for school and then go to school and then they'd have another prayer at school where they would read a scripture again and then you'd finally start learning your ABCs 1 123s which was Warren's handwritten books that he come that with what was appropriate to teach your children then after that you'd have lunch and then they'd have another prayer at lunch and do another scripture and another thing it was it was it was too much was like oh yes I will go work CU I you you don't get drink soda you don't need doing that but if you went work you could drink soda and you could um go eat out at restaurants you know not this was before Warren took power so we could still eat at restaurants yeah that makes total sense it was great we loved it we're like KCK you to go out and work with my cousins and do fun things that's great sure work is hard but whatever it was a lot it was all mindset my question then is how did the money work so were you able to get paid directly from the people you were building homes for were you able to pocket that did you have to give it all to someone else and they divid it out somehow so how my family worked like I found out other people didn't do this that was one of the things that my well our family was Hardcore we would give 100% of our money to our dad we didn't keep a dime so even though we worked from the time we were seven we didn't keep any our money and we we were glad to do it um we truly were until till earlier till later in life I'm like oh I can go buy me some cool stuff or I can go do this you with my own money I would get advances from people I'm working from be like hey you give me an advance and like what do you need it for I just need to go get some lunch so get like 50 bucks for a weekend and you thought you were a millionaire like sweet but we were making I was pulling some pretty good numbers back then for um how young I was I was making a lot of money for the time you obviously are inflation's gone down like crazy but whatever go up and you said that you had your own crew by the time you were 16 years old so if you could drive you got to be the crew Captain so by the time I was 16 I could drive so I would take I would take my uncle's truck and go pick up all my cousins that was it was great I go pick all my cousins up we Dart St George I build a house but we had a little code we all lived by and everybody knew it if we've seen anybody watching us we so we'd have people kind of watching as you're working because you know people are watching us anyways cuz we're we're fully clothed in the middle of the desert yeah you know we look weird you know I didn't know how weird we look till you get out right yeah but so people will be watching us all the time anyways but if you've seen Lac of carp parked for too long we were all supposed to roll our tools up throw them on the trailer and go home so well cuz we they were smart they're like all you kids are all underage right if oer or somebody shows up they're going to shut us down so that's what I was going to say there wasn't an an adult there to manage us we were all just kids but we felt like we felt like adults you had 16 and children children 16 and under bu full on houses and no one said anything yeah but the Lord was protecting us okay that's that's we we truly thought that we I was incredible like The Bravery that that that power gave you cuz you were God's Chen children and so we would walk these crazy buildings and just run around like I don't know how we didn't all die we would just jump across buildings and and just build as fast as we could and no one ever died because we were God's chosen children we didn't have any fear so it probably made it better because if you're up on top of these massive buildings as a young kid you know that' be nutty to see my son up there right now but I can imagine them doing any of the crap I did but like I'm putting up full on houses at 16 and you know me and my cousin were doing I was like oh man my my son is the same age as when I was crew captain and now how do you feel feel about it yeah like oh no way right you had this great childhood it seemed and of course there were restrictions and things that weren't ideal now that you can look back at it but because I mean you you left so what was it that was the Catalyst for you to realize that you didn't want to be a part of the fds anymore the people were you know cuz I worked and I got to know people outside in the real world and there was this one time when I was uh where were working it was between Vegas and um St George or mosqu there's a little town off there we were actually building someone a castle was pretty crazy the house we were building but I was in the basement we were working late so we' had to finish this house cuz we we were living out of our truck we we drove from colado City to this place early in the morning and we're trying to finish it up by night so we're working it's like 10: or so at night and it's in the desert and I I have like I'm just a little kid with chappy lips super chappy lips I ripping the skin off my um lips and doing this and doing need anything to get a moisturizer and then some girl bring me some chapstick it was used I didn't care I grabbed that chapstick put on like looked at her like oh well hell you're not evil you know yeah that was kind of an aha moment I'm like no you you cared enough to go get this for me I never even said nothing because we can't talk to anybody right I never even said boo to them they've come out and looked at us a couple of times I'm sure we looked funny to him on our full get up but they would uh it was it was it was nice to see that there was nice people out in this world and and you know that was just that's just one story and you would get going to restaurants CU I could go to restaurants before Warren took power and I say it wasn't there when he took 100% control and we could meet people and I started working at the gas station in Colorado City and I got to meet a lot of people even the Gentiles or and the apostates you know they we call them that left the church would come in there and and still Treat Me Nice and say hello and they weren't like we were taught right they weren't like evil and trying to steal us from our parents or that's what you're taught you're taught you're going to get if you if someone else like you'll see the fear in some of these kids I and I know it um I know what they're taught so I was like I just leave them alone I want to go and put even though I still wanted to go see these kids you know after you're like oh no this it's were not evil but to go say that to them would be like even worse because they know who you are or their parents would tell you oh yeah that guy turned his back against the prophet but just find out that there's not everybody's not evil out here sure there is right but it's not like we were taught when you Liv when I lived in St George you could see they would go to Walmart and Sam's Club and you could see you know the kids and the moms walking through shopping they would never pick their eyes up they looked at the ground and would never look at well the moms and the kids are not supposed to talk to anybody if if someone approaches you you go get your priesthood head which your dad or um if you're with one of your uncles and you go get him or you go get your brother who holds the priesthood and have them talk to him the kids or the wives are never allowed to talk to Outsiders yeah and that brings up a good point because a lot of times in the comments people ask how can I help these people get out if they want to get out or how can I tell them like and I think you Illustrated it so perfectly just simple acts of kindness to show them hey we're we're okay out here we do care and do you have any other suggestions you gotta you you got to do it secretly though I don't know if I could have accepted I don't think my uncle knew that I took the Chapstick or anything like that CU he might have thought it was of the devil right because these people are not part of our church but I just right there put it on like oh thank you you know was dying all day long she watched me lick my lips and it's the worst so just something like that just a small act of kindness can be a turning point it wasn't even new I you know it was just oh there are also homes outside that I don't know if there's a lost boys home anymore there used to be when Ben left Ben you can tell them about the home that you helped start so I left right and Warren took power probably prob I don't know right after it was this 2000 when I left you know a lot of crazy things happened in the year 2000 because you know the world the computers were all supposed to shut down anyways so um so we go trying to the Lost how where are the lost boys and how you can help I think the in Utah they help them a lot if you can go there's there's a place called cherish families that takes care of a lot of the and it's not so much the voice I mean sure we got a lot of the the media's eye because so when I was in St George before right after right before I met you we had this place called The Lost the Lost Boy house and we would take the boys from Colorado City because obviously I couldn't afford to take care of so a bunch of the rich people in uh St George I could name drop but I ain't getting um they bought this house they they put food in it they put um refrigerators in it and stocked it it was like Christmas this place was always loaded with food and we had like 14 kids in there I don't know how it all worked out but we always found a home for them like shortly after someone adop not adopt but like take one of these kids in and then that room would get filled again and then someone else come get another kid and that room would get filled again it was it was pretty cool and it was fun to be a part of and all the boys you know cuz we all worked in construction it was a piece of crap house but you know it got bu bought for us so we remodeled it it made it nice I think the Mormon church is actually the one that um funded the food for the place oh interesting for the longest time they they would come over and drop off groceries like a ton of groceries I'm like d you kids are eating better than me you know cuz I I had my own place but I helped them build this house and help the kids all move in there and a lot of my brothers Liv there so I was there um so we had to have an adult there in order to keep the the house I what I don't know how the government let us do it but they let us do it so we had to have an adult there 24/7 someone over over 18 so I would go volunteer and my cousins would volunteer and they would all live there in that house after I don't know what it the crash in 2007 and 8 it kind of went away CU all the you know the rich people kind of went Belly Up what have you but then the house went away and miraculously a lot of good people came up and took the kids like we had 14 kids that just I didn't keep track of where they want but they all ended up in a good home I've met most of them all um since then and they all have really cool stories to tell after they left the house wow of someone else acts of kindness you know things that we were taught learned out here that's amazing so tell us a little bit about when you escaped what that was like how you actually went about doing it I got in a fight with my dad no no so I I I told you earlier I think that I left um twice mhm so I left left once with one of my um buddies that we were doing bad things with things we shouldn't be doing as kids and we left and went and said his brother's house they lived in St George I wasn't 18 at the time so my dad I took my dad's card there we both drove over to his it was a trailer house with a bunch of smokers and drinkers in it and imagine what little boys did when they left the criek feeling the blanks yourself but anyways my dad ended up calling cuz he knew who I left with cuz he wasn't I mean we think we're Invincible like our parents don't know anything but the town everybody like in the town knows each other so they've seen me and the and my friend leaving the car there's people that are watching that town all the time little did I know that there was all these little spies everywhere till I found out later if you find out the hard way they found out who where I was and got in contact with the the lady which was you know a gentile that had married this um my friend's brother and she was like Oh no you're under 18 this guy's threatening to throw me in jail blah blah blah you just have to leave I'm sorry you can come back you only got like another another eight or nine months and you can leave I was like huh we already had I already had a job figured out I was going to work on Monday but I was like well you know what I know cuz you're you're scared still right so I went back after 18 I got into a an argument with my dad and I was going to leave cuz I had pre-planned it with my another cousin we were out in the the field and we drew it all out on the the dirt how we were going to ride our bikes down to my brother's house cuz he had left before me and live with my brother we were going to get on our one-speed bikes you know the little ones that jump and right I don't remember how many miles it is from carado City to St George but it's a lot by wait we were going to do it we had it all but you couldn't like draw anything on a piece of paper so that's what we had to do on the dirt why couldn't you draw on the paper someone will find it and then show your plans to your dad ah so like if you would write in your um your diary or something like that your dad would read that and then he figure out what you're thinking so we we got smart we didn't write anything down if we we had a little paper somewhere that had our little um escape plan on it we'd be in trouble so we had to write it down the dirt and then we just both memorized what we were going to do and but that never happened that never turned out so how how I left was we went to bed after that and we forgot about our our it wasn't written down yeah we didn't have written down we had it on the dirt we we can't put this on paper we'll be in trouble but I I had bought a truck since then with my tithing money so we didn't keep our money right we had to uh we we got we got 10% and that always give us more than a 10% for a tithing because he always paid more than 10% this this dang guy lived way more by Warren's role than any of his other brothers it was crazy so I would take my tithing and so you'd have you know a fat stack of cash say it's five grand right and you needed you knew how many ones and stuff so I would go get like 20 or so ones and put some fives and maybe put 100 in there then take the rest and save it and then K give Warren my $5,000 right $5,000 on there with stars and stuff on it and give my tithing I bet he thought you poor sucker you don't know how to read after he's seen all those ones you don't know how to count right but that's how I got my truck we get to the story that's how I got my truck to uh to finally leave as I would I would take my tithing money I still pay my tithing just would look like I was ain't got no education right yeah and then I bought my truck and with my my tithing and my dad was we were in argu I don't know what we're arguing about but I pushed him down and I feel shitty about it now at the time you're you think you're macho man but now I'm like oh why why is that my last moment that I've ever talked to my dad and that is I think that's the last time we actually talked no take that back he's we've talked um because I rescued most of all his kids from him we've talked a few times since then okay but that was for the longest time that was my last moment I've ever ever talked to my dad I was like oh that's kind of shitty that's last time I talked to him but I've seen him since then I think he's forgiven me for it I never felt good about it I'll say that Dad if you see this sorry so you take the truck yeah so I took the truck and moved to my um my brother's house my dad had called my brother before I even got there because we got in a fight right he knew my plan I I thought it was pretty secretive no he knew exactly where I was going went my before I got to my brother's house in St George dad had called my brother and told me if you um take van in um I won't let you see any other family members I won't let you see Mom I won't let you see anybody you'll be shun for mer for life so I get there and he's like you can't you can't stay here dude like no what do you mean cuz I've already like talked to him a couple of times before that you know cuzz we we're secret you know would I just don't know how I got his phone number but I would call him every so often and he said I couldn't stay with him so I was like well that sucks how I jumped in my truck and went and lived in my truck for a while for like three or four months just slept in the back of my truck just cuz I once you're in construction you know everybody and everybody knows you'll work so I got a job doing cabinets and I was living in my truck and one of the what do you call them call them a pate cuz they're out in Centennial but the hugest Hearts like when thinking back about all these people that helped me out it's it's crazy I I know I owe a lot to these guys and I always thought such little of them because they were they knew what was right and then they turned their back against it we always taught they were just the lesser of less you know right centennials live on the other side of the other side of the freeway from Colorado City anyways these guys they took me and gave me jobs and it was like a group family members of I don't want to say their names but they all took me and each one of them gave me a job and that's where I lived I lived in some other I didn't know it was their brothers so the guy I was working for his brother let me live it in their house just on a couch that was on the side of a hallway instead of living in my truck and let me sleep there for a for a while and then I moved to my my buddy Kevin's house and lived in his um so I was actually friends with his younger brothers he he had moved out went to Alpha Valley and then moved in say in his uh they had old camp trailer I no way would stay in a camp shaer nowadays not a chance that place had there was bugs on the walls and I would just squish them I remember that I'm like oh man I had no way would sleep like that now I couldn't get comfortable there ain't a chance but that's where I lived and I loved it I felt so free and so alive it was it was insane and that's when I hear everybody else get their crazy stories I'm like oh mine wasn't like that I I felt freedom I felt released I felt awesome yeah about like a million bucks I don't know when you when you get out it's it's such a such a high I guess that's a better way to explain it once you once you leave that place the rush that you get every day when you wake up and you're not there you're like oh this is all me I can do whatever I want you know my brother Adam told me that when I first left like well the world is yours now van like what are you talking about you can be whatever you want to be you want to go be a doctor you want to go be this you want to go be an astronaut you can do whatever you want I was like huh it just that aha moment you know it's it's awesome the feeling that I got was was crazy awesome it was crazy exciting and you know I went to work and started getting start um we we obviously went to got in a couple rental places and met a girl and we got it we built I got two houses by the time I was 25 I owned two homes what and it was on top of the world I had I had three cars I had four wheelers I had everything it was it was crazy at such a young age to think like damn my my kids I don't know if they could even achieve that I hope they can right but I hope I can give them some ump and to go get that but that's crazy yeah where was I going with this yeah that's how I escaped right and then I went to college after so then 2007 or whatever after the Lost Boys thing um ended all the you know the economy collapsed and all the you know the the funding left for the house I also lost my homes as well and I end up bringing up with the girl that I was with and then went back to college and that's where I met this hottie and then did you meet at Dixie yeah Dixie State wow like three days before I was moving back up north wow okay so before we bring Wendy into this cuz I'm super pumped I just want to know one thing what was the hardest adjustment that you had to face now that you had the big wide world in front of you to do whatever you wanted what's the adjustments you had to make um the biggest adjustment far as like my life or or uh yeah just like now that you don't have anyone telling you when to wake up when to eat how to do certain things how to flirt what's something that you found was the most difficult where you were like w how do I do this figure out how to flirt that was the biggest adjustment the blinking thing did not work the blinking Wendy had he figured out how to flirt by the time he met you no I took the blinking it was fine yeah okay PR for he just had to take off a shirt oh okay she's like sold construction guy so yeah what was that like how did you first meet how did you fall in love what's Your Love Story yeah so a girl I played soccer with at Dixie was dating his brother they went bowling together once I wasn't there but then they decided or she thought that I would like invited you invited us over yeah so she invited us over to my house okay invited him over and her his brother actually left and she wanted him it was kind of like a polygamous situation for a minute yeah it ended up being that overnight luckily I like forced my way into the middle because we were sleeping outside on a mattress the star got say the mattress part Under the Stars so I snuck myself into the middle in between them and yeah that was that oh my gosh I love that you're like I'm going to claim this guy this is my man scoot over yeah and then I moved back to Salt Lake 3 days later so we ended up just he would drive down like every other weekend or I would drive his way and then I ended up moving in with him when I moved in with him he lived he was in St St George still and all of the brothers that had left were in Alaska at the time um fishing no so they got it they were building a army base actually is what they they were building an army base in Alaska and then it had gotten over like maybe a couple weeks after I had moved in and all of them came back so we all were all close we're all tight we live together them I knew his family there would just be bodies all over the floor can't even tell you there was probably 10 and then our cousins would come over too and and pass out on the floor there's so many brothers just sitting there and I couldn't tell them apart I always call them by the wrong name they all look even coming from another mother they all look the same oh wow it was crazy when they all came back I didn't what is this yeah there's 10 of you and you still loved him so much that you were like okay I can deal with this yeah they they made jokes all the time like his brother introduced himself and his twin sister they look like twins now him and his brother that introduced him as a twin but his sister because well they came from the same mom but they're very close in age and they really do look at the time looked very very similar so I just thought they were twins Forever Until finally Ben was like no they're they're two years apart oh that's so funny so up the longest time I didn't know their names I tried really hard but she would have read the book at one she could have if I would have read the book of all the oh that's so funny I think I'm out of the Bible yeah so Wendy because you didn't grow up in this flds situation you were familiar with Mormonism but clearly it's a lot more extreme in the flds and now you are helping all of these people escape from the community and taking them in and showing them the world what was that like for you uh for the most part it was great I loved having the new faces in the house they're fresh into the world so there's a lot of things that they don't learn in the religion um that we kind of had to just fill in the blanks MH um some knew more than others so we just kind of had to get a feel for each kid that came out and um helped them get into the world um some were didn't get a lot of worldly time before they came to us so when they're taught there you know you you don't look at people you don't speak to people we are evil and it's hard for them to turn that around and so we just had to ease our way in and try to help them get some jobs and ease our way into the world even offering some therapy and and that and did our best to just help them get into the real world and understand that people aren't not all people are evil yeah I'm sure most of it was just a perspective shift like Ben you were talking about just the just getting over the US versus them mentality and demonizing the rest of the world and also I know that I mean personally I know that being part of the quote one true church creates a superiority complex almost like we got it figured out you guys don't and that can also create some issues as far as just really learning who you are without the religion because once that comes crash ing down it almost takes your entire identity with it and you're just trying to figure out what do I even believe who am I what are my hobbies now because I've been told what to do and how to do it did you find that a lot of what you were doing was helping them come into themselves as people definitely even just the little things like I said before the swimming was just incredible to watch cuz they were seriously like little children jumping into the pool just jumping God's children jumping in off the side of the pool doing a little flip and they'd come up and just be so excited and you just don't see that in older kids because you know we get to swim but for them it was like these little Joys that we got to see come out they didn't know who they were they didn't know what they liked so those little things that they enjoyed was it was really fun to watch yeah I'm sure that was really rewarding even just taking them out to eat in restaurants if they've never been before Oh yeah and bringing them around family who's so loving and you know just family took took in helped us take in right and giving them jobs and you know just showing them that you know there isn't just pure evil out here there there's more to it would you say that they were mostly boys The Lost Boys who you were taking in yeah oh yeah for the most part yeah I don't know that we we didn't seek anybody out and go do the the rescue Mission we they just I don't know it always end up Landing our laps they ended up with Ben I think or with us because Ben had access to jobs so if anybody reached out to family they would always say oh Ben Ben can help you because Ben was in the construction community and knew the outside world better so he could get them jobs or they could come work with him yeah Ben can you explain just in a little bit more detail why why it's easier for boys to leave and I mean I think it's kind of obvious but I really want to paint the picture as to why they don't really want the women to leave or don't let them you know obviously they want the women there because they need they need the wives but it's harder for a woman to leave because and I'm not one obviously and and I just quote this off of hearing what my sisters had to say is they never got the outside world like we got we got to go out and work and actually talk to other human beings right where they were only talking to pried pried men pries leaders you know in their in the flds so they never got that the social cues they never got the the interaction um so there that was a big huge one just learning how to communicate um is huge and sure there's a lot of smart um girls out there that cann't communicate just fine right but they could probably do a lot better if they were not so socially awkward yeah and I feel like the whole not knowing who you are or knowing your worth when you come out because in the religion you you know you're this prize you're given to this man and you're going to be sent to heaven and then when you leave it's like oh what am I now we find out who you are and I feel like when they left it was more of a push we got more phone calls we got more push back from the community of trying to get them back when we took the women or the the girls out for the men we didn't I don't really remember getting phone calls or we never I don't know that we ever did the like on the Netflix series where they did the rescues on that we never did that escaping polygamy yeah yeah we never did any of that they they didn't come to us we didn't go and rescue everything like that we just we be like hey come in with us okay then go run out and uh give you a job cause a scene and and try to tell somebody off they found their own ways out we just got them after the fact to help them back into the world how many at one time would you say you usually had kind of in and out of your house most of the time we only had one okay but when I was with him in the very beginning when they all came back from Alaska they all lived together there was probably 10 of them at least it was very bizarre yeah else yeah I could see how that'd be hard be like oh what the heck people everywhere and they were everywhere and Ben you're like I'm used to living with 28 siblings what are you talking about yeah there was this little walkway where like we had three bedrooms so it went up the stairs there was a walkway and then like the three bedrooms and there was like two kids sleeping out there they knew where they were I didn't know where they were this is true but that was bizarre but after that I loved it we remember we had a conversation about this and we're like you know what are we going to do after this you know our lives are all going to change after this and they were going to look back on this and go oh that would be kind of fun if we could all just have a big sleepover again you know all the you know all the family get back together and hang out and and we all we all enjoyed each other's company we would just barbecue in the backyard and it was cuz we're were all free it was it was great yeah that is one thing they never there was never fighting yeah unless it was just like brotherly funny fights but they all got along really well it was a definitely a family oriented thing it was just crazy to me that they all came home to one apartment mhm but after that there was really maybe one or two in our house I think at one point we had three yeah probably what was the General age Gap or the age range I guess between all of them so after I left they had the big lost voice thing it was it was big on the news at the time so everybody knew about the lost boys and what have you so I feel like um a lot more people were leaving at that time what what was the big rush to leave but there was a lot of boys leaving at one point in time St George was flooded with kids it wasn't just our home that took in Lost Boys I'm there was generous people that also were behind the scenes taking these kids in it wasn't just a few people that I knew there was a lot more than what I knew um that escaped and got placed with a family and it's it was crazy I think the youngest that we had was 13 mhm 13 to 20 okay or 20 I guess the girls were a little bit older was yeah they might have been 20 the girls bit older but the young ones came out and that's the ones that got put in like somebody else took them on as well and got them put into high school and they got to experience that and actually go to school and graduate thanks to all the people that have helped out in that time that was like a crazy time you didn't realize how lucky we were to have everybody helping out and when you're when I was young like that you didn't you see what it really took to be able to um help another human being like if you just go take in another another person that's a huge financial burden and it's a huge you got to have a massive heart along goes along with it and there were plenty of people that didn't have the means to do it but they took them in they took in some of my family and it was crazy and I went and met I and met them after they got placed in the home and I was like oh wow I thought everybody that took someone in was stinking rich but there was just some people with huge hearts that just took people in they barely were surviving themselves and they know who they are right yeah yeah it that's amazing that you guys were able to do that and literally change so many people's lives and now that you're in Northern Utah instead of St George and Southern Utah do you still get these phone calls are you still helping people escape the younger ones um they experienced a whole lot different than what Ben did so they call their younger siblings so most of his so all worked out so I only took like maybe we only had like maybe 10 of them and then that all started going they didn't know B they never even knew mebe before the kids that the kids that are leaving now never met Ben I've never met them before they they were just being born right so they're calling the younger siblings that they knew yeah cuz they're out and they have their which is good I think there's only two left in his family that haven't left yeah right and for the most part after um Warren went to jail in the Texas raid and all that where all the families got destroyed and and thrown Across the Nation they they kind of lost touch with Warren and so a lot of them have just started their own life and just like one of my sisters just started their own life and as off doing great didn't didn't um require anybody to help her she did it all herself it was awesome it's awesome to see that's amazing well I want to know how you guys are doing now I mean I know but tell everybody how you're doing now and what makes you happy and fulfilled and at peace go ahead so so kind we have a great family got four beautiful kids that's what keeps us going my family and his family we're all very close go go go yeah we go go go we are basketball sucker all those things I never had all my kids get to play him like I don't get to I don't even know any of the rules she knows them all so that's good he cheers really well I can I can yell at my kids but that's about it I don't know the rules I never played any him so here come play like I don't know the rules I'll be just like a big dude out there not doing anything a that's sweet well Wendy knows she was always the star athlete of the family that's what's to see all our kids doing that it's cool oh that's awesome well is there anything else you guys wanted to add or that you forgot to mention before we do our Linda listen moment I don't think so okay let's do our Linda listen moment then sassy statement that you want to say to anyone who's pissed you off or you can go an inspirational route Linda listen you never know what people have been through be kind I love it that's a good one I know I would just like to say thanks to all the people that had uh helped out with all the kids and um the home that we put together and um there's a lot of people I didn't mention that help me out in my life and they know who they are and thank you yeah that's amazing and are you guys familiar with holding out help that charity Foundation yeah that's a good one too and cherish families and what else cherish families those are all great resources for people who are trying to escape and they're they're helping out a ton down there even our family lives in the community right now and there's still moms out there that don't have obviously their husbands got sent away because they're supposed to be sending all their money back to Warren that you know that use those uh resources daily or whatever I don't know how often they get food from whatever but they do help and they are um helping families yes you know sometimes you see a Char you're like oh yeah it's probably a scam but I think those two at least I've seen it firsthand that they are handing out food they are um helping people they are helping moms that don't know how to help their own Dam kids right cuz you know they all the women got you know during 2017 they all kind of just got dumped everybody kind of got dumped and if you weren't throwing your money at Warren Jeffs you were going to get left so a ton of these families and kids just got you know just dumped well I'll make sure to put any resources that you have in the description below for anyone who's interested in either volunteering or if you're listening right now and you need help you can go to any of those and thank you guys for coming on and telling your story you are amazing amazing I'm so happy that we finally got to do this thank you thank you yeah so for everyone else listening thank you so much for joining us and if you could comment some words of encouragement that's amazing remember our guests always read the comments and it helps the algorithm as well shoot it out to more people and if you want to support the the it's late at night here we go and if you want to support the podcast it would be amazing if you could uh buy some of our merch we just got some merch in we have apostates Unite t-shirts I'm sorry for what I said when I was an ult Linda listen fun stuff and we are actually putting together a ctoc vacation where you can come hang out with us somewhere else in the world get to know each other oneon-one I think there's going to be like 8 to 20 spots depending on where we go and if you're interested in that we still haven't picked a location because we want to hear where you guys want to go I'm going to leave a survey Link in the description just fill that out and probably within the next few weeks we'll be announcing the trip based on your answers so that would be amazing too and you can become a patron at [Music]

Channel: Cults to Consciousness

Views: 112,286

Keywords: cults to consciousness, cults, cult member, leaving cults, healing from cults, shelise ann sola, faith crisis, shelise ann, FLDS, Lost boys, escaping polygamy, warren jeffs, keep sweet pray and obey

Id: v_GkQGUGlW8

Length: 85min 46sec (5146 seconds)

Published: Sun Nov 05 2023