Police, Policy and Community Progress in the Aftermath of George Floyd: A Virtual Discussion Event

there'd been a long history of heavy-handed policing and police violence a special investigation from the Minneapolis Star Tribune and front line from the murder of George Floyd it's just a combustible situation to the trial of Derek Shogun is that part of our training and it is certainly not part of our ethics or our values and the struggle for accountability we're at Minneapolis police system now streaming on PBS hello everyone Welcome to our conversation police policy and Community progress in the aftermath of George Floyd I'm your host rainy erinson Roth the editor-in-chief and executive producer of Frontline I'd first like to thank cam the center for Asian American Media for co-hosting this presentation with us in support of frontline's Equity Fund an initiative that provides resources and inclusion for bipoc filmmakers our discussion today will look at one of the most critical moments on policing and race in America reporting on this issue is featured in our film police on trial a collaboration with award-winning reporters from the Star Tribune are local journalism partner the film documents the early days and the aftermath of George Floyd's murder the trial of former police officer Derek Chauvin and the community struggle for accountability I'm joined today by a panel who will help us understand the complexities of police reform consequential political decisions and how citizens and Leaders grappled with issues around Justice healing and the pathway forward to start let's take a look at an important moment that opens the film [Music] I was working a holiday shift and I got this cryptic text from the police spokesperson telling me about a news conference outside of City Hall so I went down there officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and realized that the suspect was suffering a medical distress officers called for an ambulance he was transported to Hennepin County Medical Center where he died a short time later I was posting regular updates on Twitter saying that there were all sorts of unanswered questions about this incident it was around that time that someone on Twitter a follower of mine said hey there's a video that's floating around out there you may want to check it out it was pretty surreal because it seemed to directly contradict what the initial police account said there was no mention of being pinned under an officer's knee took me a second to sort of process what I was watching [Music] thank you you realize that there's far more to this case than they initially let on it raised a lot of doubts or questions in a lot of people's minds of how many other incidents in the past had been shaped or sanitized by the cops [Music] for our discussion I'm so pleased to introduce Our Guest Mike shum the director of police on trial where he just heard the clip from Marcia roview who is the producer and reporter of police on trial and Charlie Adams a Police Inspector with the Minneapolis Police Department I really appreciate you all joining me today as we reflect on incredibly important issues in the wake of George Floyd thank you for all being here so in the clip we've just reviewed we heard from star tribuner from the start dream reporter um and the team there had been covering George Floyd's case from the very start and of course you can see that they even won a Pulitzer Prize make I was hoping you could start us off with how did you actually connect with them and how did you start filming well I had just moved to uh actually the Twin Cities not long before the pandemic and before uh George Lloyd's murder so I was actually pretty unfamiliar with uh the area and I worked with the New York Times uh several times previous to doing this film such that when George Floyd was murdered and the protests ensued I was out there filming for the New York Times video unit at the same time I wasn't very clear on the history and what it happening uh in Minneapolis at that time and so for myself I did as much research as I could and honestly the one who knew the most and had the most context was the board Janie uh from the Star Tribune and so I had reached out to him a couple times and had a couple copies with them and essentially I'd seen a lot of Star Tribune reporters out in the streets but labor in particular we struck up and uh not only a good uh various conversations but also just a friendship that allowed us to think more completely about what's possible in terms of covering uh Public Safety in Minneapolis at that time and with labor I know that it didn't start out as a documentary film you weren't thinking about that at first but of course Frontline was also supporting the Star Tribune and Labor's work specifically and you know Sarah Childress who is our senior editor at the time kept telling us about lavor and he really does uh he does symbolize a local reporter on the go and that kind of work being inside the community he was reporting on how did you realize that he was the one that you could identify as somebody to help you understand this truly's experience I mean it as much as it is is Candor as well as uh his perspective just the weight of experience and thoughtfulness he had it it was uh there was no other real option really uh except for his his insight and his foresight uh for what he was reporting on during that time and then the the years forward as the film was being built great so Marcia you're a producer on the film you also appear in the film talk to me about your experience and meeting Mike for the first time and starting to get going on it then you just became such an integral part of the filmmaking process when I had joined forces with my thumb it was still very early on and at that point it was a magazine piece um focused on the trial against Eric Joven and then as we did more reporting you know filmed closely with beauty reporters we realized that there was a much bigger story here that would go beyond the headline of just the Derek shelvin trial because we were also competing with National international news outlets who had descended upon Minneapolis to cover the trial against Eric Chauvin um but I what I think what was so critical about Labor's reporting for the past you know many years with the Star Tribune is that he had this really incredible context he had this deep knowledge of the community of the inside of the police department um and we really wanted to shine a light on that um so you know we sort of developed a system where uh we tag teamed some reporting where you know labor had you know his work that he had to do with the Star Tribune he had his dailies he had to put out um there is access he had there was access that you know I had and we were just able to tag team um in a sort of way but um really when I came on it was a 20-minute piece and um as it grew and grew up then I helped them more and more with you've been working alongside Libor as well that's great um inspector Adams you have spent a lot of time with uh Mike and you spent a lot of time with the Frontline team how is it for you from the perspective of having lived through as an inspector and also as in the police department how was it for you living through George Floyd in the aftermath well you know the app you know getting the call that morning for my boss to hear look at a video that was on one of our residents of Facebook you know trying to watch it was tough you see uh a guy sitting in the same uniform a colleague what is neon George foreign for his life it was tough you know afterwards you know coming down the city hall meeting with our community folks you know and then Chief Eric gamble right away making tournament you know terminating the officers and kind of in a sense thought well maybe that will kind of uh calm folks down because he took immediate actions but as days went on obviously it didn't so it was it was it was a difficult couple uh weeks dealing with that watching uh the destruction in the City of Minneapolis watching the third precinct go up in Flames just watching protests around the country and around the world so it was tough hmm and in terms of the your other colleagues and how how did you all handle it did you talk about it transparently were you all talking about it or were you just surviving those moments those early days you know I I don't think we still have talked about it as as a healing thing for officers on this department we lost over 300 officers behind this right a lot of uh pulse PTSD claims that of the department has so we're trying to heal but we have not got the professional help right now that we need to heal as a as a group and understand uh what you know what our role was in in the death of George Floyd but also you know the feelings we're getting from community in around the world so it's it's still tough you know you know it's still tough trying to deal with it I think we're starting to see some of the morale come back up with some of the officers for me in North Minneapolis the community has been very supportive towards my officers and towards me and we feel that support and uh that healing phase is starting to uh begin with the community so yeah I mean just following up on that I'm just curious what types of internal and cultural shifts have taken place to provide reform in response to such transformative events over the past few years I mean it's been such a transformative time you said you lost 300 police officers I knew you had lost a lot I didn't know it was 300 so what what have the reforms been like well there's been a whole lot of policy changes within the last two years a human human rights state human rights department has filed a claim against us so we're kind of under a an agreement or a consent decree with the state to follow some of the recommendations from the state will she we should know in a couple of days from the federal consent decree what the feds want for us so we'll have two organizations uh you know looking looking at us internally and and basically you know directing how we police here in the City of Minneapolis so um let's watch another moment in the film that's really a remarkable remarkable and we'll talk right after that the visceral images of him taking his last breath on that video that certainly what brought people out uh to the streets in the first place but would sustained or fueled some of these subsequent protests is that there'd been a long history of heavy-handed policing and police violence we've been chronicling that violence in a database of every person killed by law enforcement in Minnesota since the year 2000. Charlotte and wounded Jamar Clark early Sunday and community members asking for answers after a man was shot and killed by police 24-year-old Edmund fair was shot and killed by the officer during a traffic stop we started working on this database back in 2015. in late 2015 is when Jamar Clark was killed by Minneapolis Police it was just the next year after that that philando Castile was shot Justine Diamond shot after that we knew that we had to provide a deeper context for people of how often this happens thank you by the time that George Floyd came around there was just this certain numbness that this just keeps happening it keeps happening the point of the database is to show that these aren't just numbers this was someone's brother sister mother father Mike I'm wondering watching that now you have some hindsight what's going through your mind as you're watching that that's a good question I mean I I would say watching that what helps at least as it pertains to what we were talking about before is there was so much that I didn't know about how one reporting had been going on for some time about the history of uh the struggle between law enforcement and in community especially in the when it came to police involved killings specifically and with that it allowed me a sort of historical knowledge walking in and and with you know people like the board and Jeff hargit and others allowed me a little bit more context uh because I do think when news coverage Pops in a lot of big buzzwords gets thrown around and such and for myself I was pretty tired of that I wanted to actually take the time to to meet with meet with people talk to people really get a wider sense of something that I know is incredibly complicated and takes more time and pressure to Under Pressure to understand like what reform actually looks like and so when I look at that those numbers are uh speak volume yet what it tells me is I need to know more uh about the context of of what we're filming that makes sense yeah I know that makes a lot of sense I had a very similar feeling and Marcia I wanted to ask you too like you're looking at that you're an investigative reporter yourself you're seeing that what does that speak to you in terms of just the breadth and depth of what you all are looking at yeah um I think what's really interesting to me is that Minneapolis represents this Duality where it is this has a reputation for being this proudly Progressive City it's been named as one of the most liberal cities in the country and yet it's have had Decades of um trying to rein in this police force that's been accused of excessive force and uh corruption and being politicized I mean the states back to the 80s really um and you know many of the MPD has had um Chief Arredondo you know who is a progressive and black police chief uh Janae harteau was an openly gay Native American um Chief um MPD has had a series of progressive um police Chiefs and so the question for me is you know why did George Floyd 's murder happened in Minneapolis this Bastion of progressive reform and at a police department that's really been trying um to to reign in it's it's Force um and so when I see the database that Jeff hargeton has put together to start Tribune it just reminds me of this this cycle it seems like that MPD has been going through despite you know all these policy changes all of these great intentions all of these police Chiefs who've come in and really want to um you know rein in some of the more you know difficult elements within the force right and I guess inspector Adam do you know what I'm going to ask you how do you interpret this and I want to know also like as you're watching this are we being fair you know is this presentation fair and are you feeling like um you know the way that we covered that moment right which is a pretty it's looking at the systemic issues Fair well you know it's tough because some of those cases that was mentioning I I did some Internal Affairs uh investigations on and you know and sometimes the story doesn't come out the way it should be right uh we we'll we'll see somebody die at the hands of police but you know we'll have an individual also who was armed who was shot and killed and that's still a problem right so there's been so many unarmed shootings of of African Americans in this country we get to the point we start putting everything together and thinking that every every killing is a bad killing right and every killing is a bad killing but it's not you know we we don't think it's Justified um for longest I've been talking about you know discrimination on the police department within the City of Minneapolis I was one of five officers along with Chief arendondo they called us the Mill City five and we sued the City of Minneapolis based on a lot of things that people are talking about discrimination uh you know our racism within the police department right it's not like mpds run around with a bunch of Rogue cops and and and and taking money from folks like that a lot of a lot of times it's individual acts right but when you when you have an officer doing that he's wearing this particular uniform we all get kind of uh painted with the same brush and we're all put in the same basket I we talked about the former Chiefs every chief that came in had a plan right harto had her 2.0 plan uh Arredondo had his procedural Justice plan the new Chief has his plan plans are great right but you have to get your elected officials to buy in right you know we have uh what we called years ago we called we uh the pcrc uh committee that was made up of police officers and Community folks they came up like with a bunch of action items for the Department to do and we were accomplishing no action items right like making Eternal fares more open for civilians to come and make complaint if they didn't feel comfortable making a complaint that they can go over to office of police contact review and make them and and make a complaint if they feel it was more safer or they could do it online so we have we have had all these different initiatives that over the years that we have tried to put in place but once that Chief is gone those initiatives is gone so 2.0 under uh Janae harteau we had the office of Justice police programs come in and do a two-year study with community and police and they had us rank pretty high as one of the best police departments in the country you know the Department of Justice before that did study on MPD and we came out to be a very good police department well-qualified well-educated but then we have the incidents with Justine Diamond get getting shot down there second guessing they are our recruitment of all East African officers because it was the East Africa officers did it and then we have the Dare Chauvin situation where now we're all being scrutinized and our department is being basically saying that you know we're we're a problem organization so I I you know in policing policing is not a pretty job because we deal with everything that Society doesn't want to deal with uh you know and people lose their lives you know you know and uh we're always going to be the boogeyman when it comes to uh you know folks dying in the hands of police if that makes sense I'm really interested in the ability that you all have now and it's actually something we're looking at in a different documentary not in Minneapolis we're looking at that right now um I just had a follow-up questions inspector so after the incidents and a lot of this a lot of this scrutiny has happened what are you doing yourself I mean I know you've been very involved in reform you've been really active I'm really glad you mentioned your own discrimination lawsuit what are you doing and how do you find um your internal sort of drive to keep working and changing and trying to reform and help others too well well this is a city I grew up in a city of North Minneapolis a Precinct that I'm actually in charge of so I'm here for my community right and they want me here they wanted me to stay here so I'm here to try to make sure we can get this right there's younger officers on this department I have a daughter who works at the fourth precinct also and I want to be here for her so she can make those good decisions and and these other officers can make good decisions by my lead uh it's been tough I'm not going to tell you I mean that last year I was losing cops every day losing one or two every week and and trying to maintain Staffing and responding 9-1-1 calls it was pretty tough you know and the violence in my precinct was pretty high last year I have the busiest Precinct in the in in the in the state so trying to maintain that trying to keep our residents safe it's it's been a challenge but you know I did not run away and I'm not going to run away and I'm going to continue to work and even work with the new Chief we have Chief O'Hara you know and sometimes if we don't see iodine that's fine but I'm going to express the views of of our residents in North Minneapolis and also the views of the officers of working before Precinct yeah that's really inspiring I I kept wondering like what keeps you inspired and focused on this especially in light of losing so many people on your Force um so speaking of the community I'm glad you brought them up it's been was really remarkable to see and Mike and Marcia's film have a community changed and grew and and sort of the Nuance along the way um Mike I want to just find out first of all what surprised you the most as you were filming the community response let's talk first about the community response that was really advocating for police reform I think a very obvious uh biggest surprise uh was shortly after the protests uh and the burning of the third precinct when uh a number of City Council Members got up on stage and vowed to dismantle the police department and then I think I believe that that was the moment where uh many of us uh including many police officers and inspector Adams as well too there's a sort of unknown that we were approaching towards that made it very unpredictable in terms of well what is the future of Public Safety uh in Minneapolis and beyond that uh how will the lead up to this election impact the way we see Public Safety and how officers and inspectors like uh Charlie Adams here uh have to wrestle with with that because it was a pretty uh contentious debate across the city with multiple activists community members and uh community members from multiple sides of the political debate around the role of the police department uh through that time so it was it was uh it was pretty tense our advance I think every everybody was on pins and needles I think it was uh made everything less trustworthy in some in some ways and more on edge I think necessary difficult conversations was something that's unhappy that people like labor Marcia and our entire team we were looking to engage with uh very sides of community as well as Inspector Adams I mean that's part of the reason why speaking with inspector Adams for some time was important because labor had even challenged me and said if you want to know more about the the crossroads in the intersection of how race is such a issue both in the city and in general in each system with systemic racism uh Charlie Adams has been there for now what 37 years at the MPD so that those waves of experience and seeing all these administrations uh Charlie has uh the insight as well as the experience that allows me or at least challenges me to understand things differently not only from his perspective but how Community even uh uh sort of is critical of people like Charlie and the department so I guess uh Charlie I'll ask you one more question about that and then Marcia I have one for you too what what um when you're hearing calls for the police department to be dismantled we were filming all of that we actually just committed to seeing it through with Mike and let him just keep filming because we thought it was such an such an important dialogue that was happening what's going on with you as you're hearing that and and your fellow police officers so it's interesting when they were asking for those calls and the boat was about to come up uh I coach High School football at Minneapolis North so some of my kids approached me and wanted to know about the the amendment and how would that have an effect on me and I said you know I probably won't have a job if that passed you know and they they didn't really fully understood that being getting rid of all of us right and uh nobody really knew what that meant so over here in the fourth precinct where like I said it's predominantly we have ish you know about crime and violence and stuff like that when that vote vote was done North Minneapolis voted not to get rid of the cops and that's who's most effective is the African-American Community they voted not to get rid of the cops they seen what was going on with the you know destructive language like this mantle MPD you know uh to fund the police officers because they start feeling the effects because now we're starting to get Lawless around here people are not stopping for stop signs driving in high rated speeds shootings have went up carjacking said tripled uh robbery a person's a triple they started seeing the effect of all that negative talk that some of our elected officials were saying so uh I bought North Minneapolis they didn't want they wanted us and when my officers saw that vote it was actually open up in February I mean excuse me up one up in December for uh city-wide bid meaning an officer can leave any Precinct and then come to uh another Precinct if they have seniority so I had a bunch of guys who on my day watch who was disgruntled didn't like my way of bleeding well that's too bad they decided to leave so when they open I had an open gap of a lot of people my precinct was the first precinct that filled up and we were shocked that the number of people that filled up and came over to work for me so I started you know walking around asking officers why did you want to be over here it wasn't it wasn't because of the action right it was because they knew the residents over there one of them and now he wanted to be somewhere where they wanted to be one so that that shows you the power of our our community over here in North Minneapolis because they realized interesting you know I didn't actually know that I knew I knew what had happened in North Minneapolis I did not know that you lost people and then gained people more quickly and filled up those spots more quickly that's really interesting and it certainly makes a lot of sense right from the perspective of a police officer um Marcia talked to me about the political response and what the kind of rhetoric and that what you were hearing on the ground I'd like to know because we stayed there for so long how it then changed you know it was really interesting yeah um well I think uh the term dismantle uh dismantle the police became politically radioactive quite quickly and so everyone wanted to kind of uh distance themselves from that term even the people who were organizing to um get the vote to replace the Minneapolis Police Department on the ballot I'm sorry there's an ambulance going by um but they they distance themselves from the term dismantle and really try to make clear that what they were looking for was to replace the police department with this holistic Office of Public Safety and that they were not going to get completely get rid of police officers that there would still be police officers within this Office of Public Safety but I think there was just so much um uh chatter and political fighting over this because it was such a hot button issue where there was misinformation on all sides um and a lot of the nuances really got lost in the cracks um and it was interesting because Minneapolis was not the only one who was having a vote like this cities across the country were having similar votes about what to do with their policing system after George Floyd's death um and as Inspector Adams said Minneapolis voted no but what I think is interesting was that it was 56 of people who voted no which to me means there were still 50 plus percent of people who wanted to change um and uh also you know in speaking with people across the Spectrum um I think for the most part people wanted some type of change but then everyone wildly disagreed as to what that change might be like it might just be a little bit like hire more officers who live in Minneapolis or it might be completely replace the Minneapolis Police Department um and so Minneapolis which surprised me was how engaged its residents are they are out there protesting they're out there having um Community chats with police officers in their backyards and their Gardens um they're very they're going to City Council meetings they're all engaged and have very strong opinions about the future of Public Safety in Minneapolis um and so that to me was was really surprising um about the average Minneapolis residential was just so well informed on policing um and so the the efforts to before to reimagine however you want to say it um policy in Minneapolis did not end with the vote um I know that there was another attempt to reimagine Public Safety I think in February 2022 put forth by city council member with that um but now we're Minneapolis is looking um at a consent decree possibly too um so that's going to bring about even more systemic change so I'm not sure what that's going to do um to the people on the ground who are looking to reimagine the police department through throughout through changing the siege area I mean I'm just curious inspector from your perspective and then Mike I'd love you to answer this as well I just don't know if you know the national scene as much but if you look at where we are this many years after George Floyd was murdered are you seeing the kind of changes that the community slash well our communities are all different right but let's say the politicians in that case calling for change are you seeing those changes happen and if not are you seeing some real positive changes even so so you hear a lot of folks said that MPD hasn't changed one bit right but that's not true I just uh spoke to two uh young folks who are doing uh something similar from uh Breck high school this morning and we did a similar form we were talking about policing and I told him all the training that we've been going through since uh this has happened I told them my right now I'm going through these are ICS classes from 100 to 700 right I've spent days in there getting these classes done because that was part of the state agreement that was we we do those those uh those classes and I have still have classes to keep my post tests uh my post license available I have to get those tests so every day I'm doing a test and I explained to them we went out to the gun range about a week ago and yeah we enjoyed it but there was one scenario where we were out there and engaged with the bad guy we were shooting back at the bad guy and then we had a robot rolling around with the gun that we were trying to take that threat off then there was a guy about 30 feet away and I never shot at him he had a knife and so the instructor after it was over he says yeah inspect why didn't you shoot the guy with the knife I said because he wasn't a threat I tell you 20 years ago that with the 21 room he would have been shot right so it's already in our mindset that we're going to try to preserve life instead of trying to take somebody to life our Chase policy right now has and we don't chase other things you know we have a huge problem with kids stealing kids and Hondas who are actually driving these vehicles right at officers attempting it to run them over or dramature Squad cards and then take off and they want us to chase them and we don't we don't we'll coordinate with State Patrol we'll get them up in the air and we just watch the car from there and then we make their arrests when they they abandoned the vehicle those things didn't happen before uh you know 2020 you know we would pursue we would do that so those changes are being done there's a lot of internal changes like I said a duty to intervened where our officers have to intervene if an officer is out of control so and then those are ongoing courses that we continue to take every day it's really interesting Mike and it's it's a number of years after your film and a number of years now after George Floyd was killed when you reflect across the country just thinking about change in general how are you feeling as a person you documented this for so long I think I think what's difficult and trying to mold a couple ideas together here but something uh to to what inspector Adams was saying is yeah there's a lot of Reform there's a lot of pushes especially when it comes to uh flash points uh like George Floyd's murder like Jamar Clark and many others and I do think uh I credit and this is more in a conversations that Charlie you and I have had about even openness to reimagining police activities uh in the field uh uh mental health professionals could be used in collaboration with police officers we've had talks about how to change and reform how things are uh can be delivered in the streets at the same time though uh you are still an inspector operating at a level that has a bunch of officers beneath you and I think uh the ranking file on the street police officers I think it's tough to see what kind of changes that happened on the streets from the day to day because at the end of the day we police officers have interactions with Community multiple times every day throughout each year and the only way for me to understand how change is implemented or addressed is in the numbers which is why that's that second clip was so important because the question then becomes not necessarily after two years do we see fundamental change I do think what is so important about what had happened and the sort of racial Reckoning we saw with George Floyd's murder is interrogating and questioning what are the issues Marcia rammed it up perfectly like Minneapolis is a city that is very reform-minded but it begs the question what kind of changes happen over time and how do we understand the numbers uh and I think now we're starting to finally uh at least start to ask questions about these systems because I agree with inspector Adams I don't know that like there's an overwhelming majority of officers out there who are just out to get people but in the micro interactions from the day to day what can we learn about these interactions and how much of it is racially discriminatory how much of it is uh lack of accountability these are questions that I think have been asked over the years but uh I think George Floyd's murder has been shaking cities across the country about our own cities every city that uh each any member of the audience uh they live in challenges them to think about their own Community their own law enforcement what their community's relationship with law enforcement so there has been a big I guess inflection point in terms of being critical about law enforcement but what that looks like now I think we're just gonna have to see uh how well Minneapolis is doing not only after uh Chief Arredondo but Chief O'Hara and maybe other any other Chiefs beyond that actually it's time will have to tell unfortunately yeah thank you for that um okay Marcia I'm just wondering it's it's also been some time you're working on a different project now what stays with you the most from that experience well that's a good question um you know I think what stays with me the most is that um that change takes a very long time um you know going back deep into the history of you know policing in Minneapolis and seeing that the city has really struggled um for decades and decades um to deal with um problem officers using excessive force against non-white populations and going through this cycle again and again but that there is such an Engaged um students read that is you know protesting advocate for reform there's police officers like Charlie Adams who are working from within what through the police department on a discrimination basis um you know it's and just working on the film for over a year with Mike I felt myself going through that cycle words protest after protest there were multiple killings after George Floyd's killing that we also filmed um and I just felt that um the heaviness of that cycle and I don't even live in Minneapolis but I was following the news cycle and so I was um you know just really um inspired by people on all sides of the spectrum who are still so engaged with this issue and really trying to push forth what they thought their Vision um their vision of policing and Public Safety in Minneapolis um uh even though you know you take one step four and you might take five steps backwards um but they're still so engaged and um to me even though you know it's uh I don't it's a big Spectrum um across the board in terms of like what people were pushing for but just their level of Engagement year after year um to me was um uh just really inspiring so inspector Adams I want to end with you and I just was so curious you worked with Mike shum you've worked with many reporters and journalists thank you for first of all talking to journalists it's really important that we have your perspective I just want to thank you for that because so few officers do especially at your level what motivates you to talk to us you know I have a good friend who was a investigative reporter for WCCO news back in the days Caroline law she's kind of my education Mentor she hounded me to get my masters and my uh my Master's Degree and my ba degree so she always told me I'm going to do the story without without any without you if you don't tell me what's going on right so most of the times I tell our Administration and our pios we have to help craft the message we cannot just let it be one-sided uh we have to be able to tell our side of the story and using when we do it may not come out as bad as we thought it thought it was going to come out it may come off balance right so that's why I've always been that way and I learned that from her and I you know I've talked to many other you know Publications uh you know and I've been very honest and open I think that's what people want to hear from you um is there issues in law enforcement absolutely does things need to change absolutely and I think it needs to start when we with Recruitment and when we go into the academy we need to get away from this part military organization we need to start teaching our young cops how to be people and how to relate to folks right not that I'm the I'm the police and you do what I say right you got to get away from that that's no longer I didn't like it when I was going through it 36 37 years ago I didn't like that training then and uh and I don't like it now so until we start treating these these recruits as as as young as young folks adults and giving them the the tools that go out in the community and be successful and be a service to the community I I don't think things are going to change if we stay in that same path and that's why I'm still here to make sure we can make those changes oh that's a wonderful ending thought Mike Marcia and inspector Adams thank you so much for joining me today really been a wonderful discussion thanks again thank you thank you

Channel: FRONTLINE PBS | Official

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Length: 43min 19sec (2599 seconds)

Published: Thu Jun 01 2023