Peter: The Rock, The Keys, The Chair - Steve Ray

[Music] [Music] these put your hands together and welcome Stephen rain okay I told them that I didn't want to have the microphone that I hold in my hand because I need my hands to talk I can't talk without my hands so if I have a microphone then it goes dead so I'm very happy to be here I we've really like Australia I'm gonna leave my hat on okay I bought this hat when I got here it's kind of like the one I wear in the United States and in Israel and everywhere but I say when I get to when I get to Australia I'm gonna get a real Aussie hat and I'm not gonna take it off so if it's all right I'm leaving it on another way if I take it off anyway see the glare would be so bright you wouldn't even be able to see so it's better to have the hat on all right so we're really having a good time in Australia and meeting all the all of you wonderful people who love the Lord wait down under now they say that Australia is down under but when we got done flying all the way here I said no it's way down under it's a long way how many are Filipinos I know there's gonna be a lot of Filipinos today it's very nice to have you guess where I'm going when I leave Australia we're going to the Philippines for two weeks and it'll be our I call it our fifth missionary journey this will be the fifth time we've been to the Philippines and we've been there the four times before doing apologetics and teaching people how to defend the faith and understand the faith you know the Filipino people are wonderful they've been there for so many hundreds of years are the only Catholic nation in Asia the Christian nation and they have been there without anybody bothering them they just love the Lord in mama Mary and the Eucharist and and then all of a sudden from my country I'm very sorry to admit from my country comes all of these missionaries to try and get you to leave the Catholic Church and all of a sudden the Filipinos have never known how to defend the faith they never had to defend the faith before and now they're learning how to defend their islands in the Catholic faith now I was at a conference one time where we were I had bought a new bible study software program and i was at this conference learning how to use it and all these about 200 men and some women - we had our laptops out and we were learning how to use this new bible study software program and I was the only Catholic in the whole room the rest of them were all Baptists and Protestants and what you call the born-agains but you should never call them that because they're not the born-agains you're the born against they don't know what it even means by the way and so the guys sitting next to me during lunch just to make conversation I said to him what do you do and he says oh I'm a missionary to the Philippines and they said really what do you do there he says well they're all Catholics they don't know Jesus so we go there to get them born-again he said that to the wrong guy and he said what do you do I said I'm also a missionary to the Philippines isn't that cool he says what do you do there and I said I teach them how to protect themselves from guys like you and his mouth dropped open and we talked and we had lunch together and I gave him all my books I haven't heard for a little sense but I don't know maybe he's been a convert now - I don't know so you know I was not always a Catholic I think most of you know that I used to be an Evangelical Protestant I was born and raised Catholic I wish I had two hours because I'd like to first tell you my conversion story of how I came from being born and raised the Baptist who used to go out and try and get you all saved just like the missionaries that come over there and then after I tell you how I became a Catholic then I would like to talk to you about Peter the keys the rock the keys in the chair but just very briefly my mom and dad were pagans they didn't have any religion and then in 1954 they became Baptists and there's a long story to that and then they raised me to be a Baptist kid and I was I loved being a Christian I loved the Bible I loved to evangelize I loved to do Bible study classes and I loved to get people saved and I used to go after Catholics I knew all the best verses to use against Catholics I would say to you are you born again and the Catholic would go oh oh it's really a cold day today and they didn't want to talk about it or they would answer I'd say are you born again or do you know you're going to heaven and the Catholic would say well I'm Catholic since I didn't ask you if you were Catholic I asked you if you were saved and going to heaven if you knew this or you're born again and why do you pray to Mary instead of Jesus and why do you have tradition instead of the Bible and why do you have everything all screwed up why do you think you're going to get to heaven by your works instead of by faith alone and so then I knew all these verses and we would try to get catholics to leave the Catholic Church and become real Bible Christians and then in 1994 God turned my wife and I upside down on our heads and we came into the Catholic Church and we haven't kept our mouth shut ever since and I hope that the result of my coming to Australia will be that you will not keep your mouth shut from now on either that you will go out and begin to tell people not only about Jesus because you know what I find out about Australia a little bit is that people kind of have an attitude oh don't say too much just kind of be laid-back religion is kind of a personal thing it's in our heart it's private don't say anything about it don't you know everybody has their own opinions you know if I tell them that Christianity is true they're going to tell me who are you to tell me what's true so pretty much Catholics just mind their own business and lay back and don't say anything but this isn't what God wants from us he wants us to be avenged by virtue of your baptism you were made an evangelist and an apologist and a defender of the faith and it's about time Australia that you kind of get over this attitude and start to share the faith with people I use an example of this if some day we're gonna stand before God and we're going to be judged by him and the crowds are gonna be there each one of us is going to stand before God and he's going to judge us and we're gonna be infront of his great throne and he is going to at the end either pronounce that we go in that door or we go in that door this door happens to be a beautiful door with wonderful smells and sounds coming out of it and from this doors belching a gaseous terrible smoke and when you're done being judged he may say to you welcome into the joy of the Lord thou good and faithful servant and as you're going over the Angels come out and you smell the beautiful smells and south and the angels come and take you by the arm and they stay to walk you into this gate over here and then the next person that comes up is your neighbor or the person that you work with or the person that you see a lot of times but you haven't talked to because you're shy or because you say oh it's a personal thing and they're judged before God and God says you're going in this store and these ugly horrible dark angels come and grab them with their claws and start to drag them in and they look over and see you going in this to and they say to you why are you going in this door and I'm going in this one and you'll say because I was a Catholic I believed in Jesus I was baptized and they're gonna say you knew about this and you never told me you mean you knew this and you worked with me every day at work and you know next door to me you knew about these two doors and you never said anything to me damn you and then they're taken off into hell and how will we feel at that day of the judgement and I made up my mind along as my wife that when that day comes nobody is gonna be able to point to me and say you didn't tell me I'll say yes I did remember on June 2nd of 19 whatever it was and I came and talked to you and you said you didn't want to listen to me don't point your finger at me buddy cuz I did try to talk to you I tried to talk to you more than once and I am gonna be I made up my mind that when I stand before God I do want to go in that door I'm gonna do everything possible and by the grace of God I'm going in that door and I'm gonna take my wife and my kids and grandkids with me and I'm gonna bring as many of you with me and of Australians with me and the rest of the people in the world that I can possibly bring with me in that door but anybody that's going in that door is not gonna point a finger at me and say I didn't tell them and make up your mind that it's not going to it's going to be the same with you it's not a private thing it's a very public thing and God has called us to be evangelists and to share the faith I don't know how I got off on that because that's not my talk on Paul I mean I Peter so I want to get started I think that I knew I met Peter one time I met Peter in Galilee and I'll tell you how it happened we were there on a pilgrimage and we were I took my family there to Israel I've been to Israel by the way 70 times at seven zero and we take groups there and my wife and I go to study I love to live and study the Bible in the Holy Land there are five Gospels Matthew Mark Luke John and the Holy Land that's what Pope Paul the sixth said if you really want to understand Jesus and Mary in the Bible in the Catholic Church you read Matthew Mark John and the Holy Land so I love to go there to study the Bible on location and a lot of what I'm going to talk to you about Peter today is from the time I've spent there but one day I was there and I got up early in the morning and I walked along the shore of Galilee because I'd read in the New Testament that the fisherman went fishing at night and I was gonna see if the Bible was true of course I know it's true that's why I knew I would find fishermen and sure enough they're coming in off this the mist is rising of off the sea the Sun is just getting pink along the horizon it's five o'clock six o'clock in the morning and the boats are coming in and I stood in this little Bay and I watched these rough tough Jewish fishermen coming in and I started asking them questions what kind of fish are those why do you fish at night how much money do you make on this fish what kind of fish is this and they said you ask too many questions we have work to do we have to start the fish and clean the nets and we have to sell them these guys are here with their pickup trucks to buy the fish if I talk to you I can't sell my fish he said you ask too many questions I said but I want to know all these things he says then if you want to know all of these things you come back here at 6 o'clock tonight and you'll go fishing with me I said I'll be there 6 o'clock that night I was there and I jumped in his boat with him in his name was Sheena Cohen and off I went on the Sea of Galilee out fishing with him all night and I was out there in the sea we set the nets out as the Sun was setting on the West and then they pulled their boats into the North tip of the Sea of Galilee where the Jordan River comes into the water and they pulled up into the Jordan River there and they tied their boats to the bushes and there was a bunch of other boats there too they're waiting for the Sun to set and I found out why because the fish are smart and they have good eyes and the reason they fish at night is because the fish can see the necks in the daytime and they won't go near the nets but at night they're blind and they can't see the nets and they go in and get stuck that's why they fish at night now you know something about the Bible that nobody else so they pulled up waiting for the Sun to set and we went up into the River Jordan and tied the boats and then there was a bunch of other boats there and they were eating their pita bread and their hummus and tomatoes and then one guy he unzips and he starts to do his business off the side of the boat right when the other guy grabs the coffee pot to get the water to make the coffee and I said I'll wait for the next batch of coffee I'm not having anything for this batch and they're all eating and talking on the unless and this and they're yelling at each other in Hebrew big old smelly guys already they smell like fish and sweat and I'm thinking to myself oh my goodness I'm out here with Peter Andrew James and John and that's how I met Peter one day on the Sea of Galilee and that was out there with the long night fishing and I became good friends with shimi Cohen and I still see him when I go back to Israel once in a while and I met Peter and the Apostles and that's I got to know them and I'm going to tell you a little bit of a story about Peter the rock the keys in the chair I'm gonna tie it in with the whole thing of why do we as Catholics believe in this this office or this man called the Pope where do you find the Pope in the Bible when I was at evangelical Protestants if you had invited me to come here to speak to you I would have loved to come here but for a different reason I would have come to get you all saved I would have sent you where do you find the Pope in the Bible you all believe in the Pope you all say he's the source of unity why do you let some old man in Rome tell you what to do even in your bedroom aren't you Australians don't you believe in democracy and freedom then why have you let some old tyrants in Rome tell you what to do I couldn't understand this and I would ask you where do you find the Pope in the Bible we have the Word of God the Bible that's all we need why do you need some man like this first of all if someone asks you where do you find that in the Bible do you know how to answer that do you start to sweat do you start thumbing back and forth is hit in the Old Testament in the New Testament oh I wish I would have learned this book more when somebody says where do you find that in the Bible like the Pope or the Assumption of Mary or the queenship of Mary or purgatory when they say where do you find that in the Bible the answer is very simple you turn back and look them right in the eye and say where do you find in the Bible that you have to find everything in the Bible they're starting out with a false premise they're starting out with a lie the Bible never says that you have to find everything in the Bible in fact it says there's a man named Peter who was given the keys and what he says he can bind and loosen he has authority on earth it says that there are bishops apostles that have authority and the church you listen to them and they will bring you to spiritual maturity Paul says hold fast to the traditions that I left you traditions whether they were in writing or by word of mouth there is a lot that the Bible never teaches ever that the Bible is the only source of authority that you have to find everything in the Bible what it does say is that it is the Word of God but there are other ways that God speaks to us as well so if someone comes and says where do you find that in the Bible you have to expose that lie because they're trying to make you accept something that's not true and Catholics shouldn't fall for it so I would say where do you find the Pope in the Bible I'm going to show you where you find the Pope in the Bible but first you have to use your imagination with me you have to forget that you're Australians who speak English that you live in the 21st century that you live in a land that's called a democracy instead of a kingdom with all of these things are a great disadvantage to us when I was born I was born a Baptist an American who spoke English who lived in a democracy lived 2,000 years away from the Holy Land and about 8,000 miles distance away and I was born with a pair of Baptist glasses on if you wear sunglasses that are red what does the world look like it looks red and if you wear blue glasses what does the world look like blue exactly and if you were Baptist glasses what does the world look like Aptus if you read the Bible it looks Baptist if you look at the world it looks Baptist if you look at Catholics they don't look like Baptists and so I was born with these glasses I had a great disadvantage being an American speaking English living in a different whole different world because I read to the by go to the Bible I'm not reading it objectively I'm not reading it like a Jewish person would have read it in the first century I'm reading it like a Baptist would read it today and interpreting it in the light of that and I was reading it and I was missing half of what was there and the other half I was reading incorrectly I have a very special pair of glasses now I found a very good optometrist this is a Jewish lens and this is a Catholic lense and now when I read the Bible or look at the world it's all clearer because I look at it from the old and the New Testament and I see it the way God intended me to see it I admit that I have a tradition now I didn't admit it before as a Baptist I did I had a Baptist tradition they were my glasses now I have a Catholic tradition and I see better so one of the things I'm going to have to do is ask you to use your imagination as we go back in time 2000 years ago to meet this man named Peter who's walking around the land of Israel he was born in Bethsaida which is at the north tip of the Sea of Galilee he owned a fishing company he owned a fleet of ships he was not AB dunderhead bumbling idiot like sometimes he's presented I think that Peter was actually quite a brilliant man he was very impulsive he was very quick with his mouth before you know sometimes I tell my son when I was teaching him to drive you have to put in the clutch before you put it in gear sometimes Peter would put it in here and slam on the gas before he put in the clutch and they'd grind the gears he would say things without thinking first but I think he was a bright man with his own business he had a house that was a nice house and it was very close to the synagogue which means he was not a poor man either and he met Jesus and I think that when he met Jesus he saw there's something very unique and Jesus gave him a new name at that very moment he said you will be called Cephas the rock and I think Peter was the favorite of Jesus I know that John was the one that laid his head on Jesus's chest during the first lord's supper the Passover meal I know John is referred to in the book of John as the one that Jesus loved but I think that Jesus loved Peter the best because Peter was bold and courageous he was ready to step out and fight he took a sword and cut the high priests ear up that another servant I'll fight for Jesus wammy cuts his ear off he denied Jesus too but he came right back with tears and confessed his sin and repented of it before Jesus as well I think that Jesus really loved Peter and then Jesus went up into heaven and Peter stands up on the day of Pentecost and he begins to lead the church but where does all of this begin I want to take you back on a journey to says areia Philippi that's where I want to start and I want to title this talk the rock but keys and the chair I want to touch on those three elements and then we'll touch on a few also as we conclude but these three I think are very important and by the time I'm done I want you to know where you find the Pope in the Bible even though you don't find the word Pope in the Bible oh by the way where do you find the word Trinity in the Bible as an evangelical protestant I would throw the word Trinity around just as fast as anybody I would say there's a Trinity Father Son and Holy Spirit but you as a Protestant could have come up and asked me okay I mean as a Catholic you as a Catholic you could have come up and ask me points your finger right at my nose okay mr. Steve ray Baptist where do you find the word Trinity in the Bible that you use all the time you say that we have to find everything in the Bible where do you find the word Trinity in the Bible it's not in there the Bible doesn't teach the word Trinity the Trinity is in the Bible but it's like puzzle pieces that you have to move around you have to put them together and it took five centuries of councils in the Catholic Church to define their word Trinity and to put it all together so that we would understand what it meant in their sum today that still say I don't see the word Trinity in the Bible like who like the Jehovah's Witnesses like the Mormons like the Jesus only Pentecostals there are thousands and thousands of people who call themselves Christians today who say that they deny the Trinity because they say they don't see it in the Bible but the bible does teach the trinity it says the father is God the word became flesh he was God and the Holy Spirit is God so you have one God but yet you have three persons all called God so there must be three persons and one God and the council put this all together over five centuries so that we know what the Trinity is but the word is then there but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist the word Pope is the same it's not there but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and so now we're gonna go on our journey Jesus took his 12 disciples up north in Israel all the way so far north that they were right on the border with Lebanon because when I take my groups up there and I do every single group I take we go all the way up to the border of Lebanon and as we're driving along the road almost a says areia Philip I I say to everybody see that barbed wire electric fence running along the side of the road they said yep I said on the other side of that fence is Lebanon you're at the very northern tip of Israel and then we come around a corner and there's a big rock and there's a sign that said find me as' we'll talk all about that in a minute and what it means but Jesus took his disciples far up north Jerusalem of Israel's long and skinny like this is Jerusalem's down here and Jerusalem is the place where the temple is this is where the university town this is where you go to learn become a doctor of the law get your PhD and in religion and all this is where the religious life of Israel is right down here but they lived up here in Galilee and Galilee was called the land of Darkness the land of the Gentiles not the Jews and then they go all the way farther north and a pagan territory all the way up to a place called Cezary at Philippi and in Matthew 16 in the Gospel of Matthew chapter 16 starting in verse 15 it says Jesus took his disciples into the district of says areia Philippi and so you have to ask yourself when you read and study the Bible you don't just read over that you Scott slam on the brakes why does he mention says areia Philip I what is significant about that place and why does it say he took them up to this place and now the dialogue that he asks and who do men say that I am why does he wait until he gets all the way up there to ask that question and then you do your homework on says arena Philip I where is it what does it mean what's significant about it and I'm gonna make your work easy for you because I did that homework already and I'm going to get it to you for free okay Jesus goes all the way up to this place and he says who do men say that I am he's prepared he's got a backdrop Jesus was a master teacher when he wanted to talk you'd always have a mass of a backdrop or something to point to like a coin with the image of Caesar Augustus whose image is on this coin Ceri Caesar then give to Caesar what is Caesar's it's his coin give it to him but give to God what is God's whose image is stamped on you the coin has Caesars image stamped on it so it's Caesars give it back to him but whose image is stamped on you you're made in the image of God so give yourself to God that's what he was saying he loved backdrops he loved show-and-tell kind of stuff and here he is now it says a refill appeal which is the best and the biggest and the magnificent backdrop teaching item that he's ever had because when we come around the corner in our bus and we pull into says Andrea Philip I there is a huge rock it's the base of the mountain Mount Hermon it's the foothills of the mountain and it's a huge rock that is 500 600 feet long and 50 to 60 feet tall it's not as big as the rock you have out in the middle of Australia that red one which I hope I get to see when we fly it out to Perth but I don't know but it's not as big as that one but it's a huge rock and this is where Jesus came to talk about Peter being the rock imagine that who do men say that I am and they say some say you're John the Baptist or Elijah or Jeremiah or one of the prophets nobody really knows but they're sure curious and then he says who do you say that I am and Peter blurts out for the rest of them he's the spokesman sometimes he gets it right sometimes he gets it wrong in the same chapter in a few verses later he says we're not going to let anyone crucify you you were not gonna die on the cross and Jesus said get behind me Satan in one chapter in Matthew 16 he says Peter those words that you just said are a divine revelation of God and a few minutes later he says those words are right from Satan get away from me but at this point Peter got it right you are the Christ the Son of the Living God and Jesus smiles thank you Peter you defined me now I am going to return the favor and I'm going to define you you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church so what we hear this in English you are Peter and on this rock there's no correlation in our minds we don't get the word play we don't understand because were reading in an English if you were reading it in Greek it would say you are Petros and on this Petra I will build my church in fact for those who know French the word for rock is Pierre and Jesus would have said in French you are Pierre and on this Pierre I will build my church but we change it in English to say you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church but in the Greek of the New Testament you are Petros and on this Petra I will build my church as I the Baptist it proves that Jesus is not saying that Peter is the rock there's that he's saying you are Petros but on me the pet rock I will build my church two different things not so says I know the Catholic why did Jesus call Peter Petros and not Petra the Greek word for rock is Petra he should have just said you're Petra and on this Petra I will build my church but he couldn't do that because Greek has masculine and feminine nouns like Spanish in Italian not like English Petra was a feminine noun Jesus couldn't get Peter a girl's name you were Petra and Peter's there with tattoos on his arm and smells like fish and all 300 pounds of muscle don't you call me a girl's name I am NOT a Petra my name is Steven if you change the ending it's Stephanie call me that afterwards and see what happens do you remember the song by Johnny Cash a boy I met a boy named Sue I'm dating myself but there was a boy named Sue and his dad was gonna not be with his boy and in order for the boy to be tough and learn how to defend himself he gave him the name Sue so that he would have to fight from the beginning he'd he'd be a tough guy well that's what happens you call me Stephanie that's what kids did at school and they always got a black guy when they called me Stephanie you can't call Peter Petra so Jesus puts a masculine ending on the nande of it and it's Petros it's rock it's the word rock with a masculine ending he creates a new name that never existed before that's why it's Petros and Petra in the name Peter comes from Petros but you know that's interesting because Jesus didn't speak Greek to them at that time he did speak Greek but not at that time at that moment we have to dig a layer lower in languages because Matthew translates Jesus's words in Greek but Jesus was speaking Aramaic which is another language so already we start with English and we have to dig deeper to Greek and now we have to dig deeper to the language Jesus was really speaking which was Aramaic and Aramaic it says you are kafir and on this kafir I will build my church the same word and we know that this is the case too because in John chapter 1 verse 42 when Jesus first meets this fisherman named Simon then not Peter but Simon he says Oh Simon nice to meet you buddy you shall be called Cephas caifa the rock it was a prophecy Jesus knew ahead of time who is going to be the head of the church in the foundation you will be called King father Rock nice to meet you get out of your boat let's go so here we see Jesus saying that you were rock and on this rock I'll build my church do you know this big rock it says Philip I do you know what was sitting on the rock a huge church it wasn't a church though it was a pagan Roman Greek temple it was built by King Herod to the divine Caesar Augustus Caesar Augustus was the emperor in Rome and so a King Herod to ingratiate himself with King Augustus built this beautiful temple up there on that mountain and he built this temple to the divine Caesar Augustus and it was beautiful made of marble imported from Italy and you would go into our Greece I don't remember was Italy or Greece and you would go into the temple and you would throw living sacrifices into the cave which was behind and that's how you would worship the pagans came from around the world to worship the divine Caesar Augustus and in front of that temple was built right up against the rock and at that point in the rock and you can see it today those who have gone there's two brothers here who went to the to Israel with me and they'll tell you afterwards that there's a huge cave and at the time of Jesus the cave had water in it there was now it has ground in it but that was because there was an earthquake that filled it but at the time of Jesus that came inside the huge rock you'd look at this cave you'd have to go through the temple first and then you'd look into the cave and there was water in there and there was no bottom to the water they said that they used to take a string with a rock and they deliver it down down down and they could never find the bottom of the pit in that cave so you know what the ancients the pagans called this cave they called it the where the gods lived you would throw your sacrifices down to the gods who lived in the center of the earth and they called it the entrance into the netherworld or the gates of hell did you know this when you read that passage in Matthew 16 did you know that there was a rock where Jesus was and that there was a cave that was called the gates of hell and there was a church built in front of it a temple and that when Jesus said you will be Peter you are the rock and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it that all of that was there for your eyes to see when he stood there a rock a church a cave the gates of hell all that was right there this was the big backdrop that Jesus used you know if our kids learned this in schools and in their churches and in our families they wouldn't leave the Catholic Church when they get older we have to teach them the Bible we have to teach them the history of our faith we need to teach of the geography because we don't want our kids to leave and half of our kids are going to leave the Catholic Church by the time they're out of college because we haven't taught them we haven't instructed them we haven't given them their weapons we haven't taught them Catholic karate to defend themselves against every other kind of philosophy and religion that's going to come in and try and ground by the throat and pull them out of the church so there's this cave with a temple in front of it and that pagans would come there and they had to pinch incense and offer sacrifice to Caesar there were two glues that held the Roman Empire together one was the military and the other one was the belief that Caesar was divine the Lord even called the Prince of Peace and you know we have in our Creed it says we believe in one Lord Jesus Christ you cannot accept Caesar as Lord this was a cause the early Christians a big problem the Christians in the early church were killed because they refused to bow a knee to Caesar as the Lord they said no we have one more Jesus and it's not Caesar I will not bow to Caesar I will not burn incense to him and worship Him and the Romans imagined what had happened to the early Christians imagine your first or second century Christians and all of a sudden you hear the doors out there slam shut and bam bam all the doors there said Roman soldiers walk in with shields and swords and they surround this room and they say okay everybody stand on your feet you are now going to prove that you're real Roman citizens and up here we're going to set up an altar and we had in cents here and you will get in line and you will burn incense to the wisdom or to the genius of the emperor and when you're done you will be given a certificate that says you were a Roman citizen and good standing and you know it doesn't matter if you really believe it or not it's just you have to do it you can cross your fingers cross your fingers put them behind your back don't even let us see come up like this keep your fingers crossed pinch the incense and go away we'll give you the certificate you don't even have to mean it and so you all get up and come in this line but then somebody shouts from the back don't do it don't get in that line because you're acknowledging Caesar as Lord and don't forget that jesus said if you deny me before men I will deny you before my father in heaven and it's not worth being sent into hell just for this moment to get this certificate but the Romans say oh if you don't come up and sign this and you don't come up and pinch in since then you get in line over here and we're going to cut your head up with a sword which line are you going to get into you have five minutes to decide this is what the early Christians faced day after day after day do you realize the sacrifice these early Christians made so that you could be sitting here today and they would come over here and you'd say but I can't come in this line I have children and grandchildren a business people depend upon me God will understand no he doesn't because he said if you deny me before men I will deny you before my father and so here you have a false rock with a false church a temple to the divine Caesar Augustus with a false sacrifice and a false Lord this pagans would throw their sacrifice into the water and then the river came out from underneath the rock and it still does today water rushes a whole beautiful River comes right out from under that rock and then the the point is is that from that water was what sustained the people of Israel because that water flows into the Sea of Galilee which even today provides 70% of the water for the Land of Israel if you go to bear Sheva Haifa Tel Aviv Jerusalem wherever you are 70% of the water that's used comes out of the Sea of Galilee right out of the Jordan River and this water that comes out of this rock is the headwaters of the Jordan River that's where it starts the water that comes from that rock is what sustained the people of Israel God's people for all those years and now that we have a new rock and the water flows out from that new rock which is Peter what does that rock represent watter represent not only does it sustain it doesn't sustain just the people of Israel in the Land of Israel but now the water from the rock of Peter goes all the way around the world to way down under even to here and it sustains the people of God on the whole face of the earth and what is the water that flows from that rock of Peter it is true doctrine it is the grace of God that flows through the church and the sacraments and it is the Holy Spirit of God that flows to us through the church in the sacraments of the Church this is the water the pure water that flows out from under the rock of Saint Peter and the church which sustains us today so a false rock false temple false Lord false sacrifice and Jesus is saying wipe it all the way we're starting new we're gonna have a new rock which is Peter and on this rock I will build my new church not that temple and we will serve the true Lord and we will have the true sacrifice now that's not the only thing you see when you go to says areia Philip I that's the cave but right next to the cave there are niches carved into the face of the rock they have flat bottoms but they're like an archway and there it recessed into the mountain and they put idols and statues of pagan gods in there and then they had unholy masses I think in front of this these gods that they had put into the wall of the rock people from around the whole Roman Empire in the Middle East would come to have unholy masses I call them orgies and sacrifices to these pagan gods offering living sacrifices and who knows what else they did on the platform in front of the rock dancing all the kind of things that would happen there and the number one God that they worshipped there was called pan the Greek god Pan he was the horny goat you know with a back end of a goat to the front of a man and he would chase the girls through the woods with his pan flute playing his payment and it's forward from pan that God would get the word panic and pandemonium and he had the biggest archway that was his statue was put in there people came to worship him you know the city today is called Baniyas if you go to get it get in a taxi and you say I want to go up to Caesarea Philippi see right here in the Bible says a real Philly PI the taxi driver will say what what do you tell there's no says areia philip i you get out the map he said oh you mean baniyas why is it called baniyas now before the time of Christ before it was called Caesarea Philippi it was called panas PA m EA s the city of pan but because the Arabs in Arabic cannot pronounce the piece out it's not in their alphabet they can't say penny or Peter it comes up Benny or beater with a B sound so the name Pontius is now baniyas and pan is worshipped there and you know what the God pan is the god of sheep and shepherds think of what Jesus is doing with Peter right now you have a false Rock a false church a false Lord and we also have a false god of sheep and shepherds in Jesus as I am The Good Shepherd and I am the king of Israel I'm the one going to ascend into heaven and I am appointing you to be my shepherd the true Shepherd not one that causes panic not one that causes pandemonium not one that chases girls through the woods I am going to appoint the true Shepherd who will lead my people in my absence what do you mean in this absence Jesus is going away into heaven to prepare a place for us John chapter fourteen I go to prepare a place for you and if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again to receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also in my father's house there are many mansions if it were not so I would have told you he's going away and in the meantime he's appointing a shepherd not tan but Peter to be the Shepherd of his flock so you have this all in the rock but now I want to move to another aspect the keys the second element because right after he does all of this and you see all of this with your eyes you know exactly what he's talking about the Pope the rock and all of this going on but now he says to Peter the next line is I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and what you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven and you've heard that a million times but most Catholics don't have a clue what it means because they never took the time to look it up too much football to watch who's got time to study the Bible got a drink this good Australian beer no time to study the Bible when Jesus said I'll give you the keys of the kingdom what does that mean I thought I knew as an evangelical protestant the key of the kingdom were the gospel Jesus gave them to all of us we all have the keys what are the keys so if I came here 20 years ago and I had you in the audience I would preach to you the gospel to get you to leave the Catholic Church tell you that you need to be saved by faith alone get born again ask Jesus to come into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior once I tell you this Gospel according to Steve I get you to leave the Catholic Church what did i do I just took the keys of the kingdom of heaven and I opened the gates of heaven so you can get in that makes sense sounded good to me the problem is that's not what the Jews would have thought that's not what they thought the keys meant in the south in the United States down in Mississippi Tennessee Alabama and these places they have a way of saying the word you in Michigan if we say you would just make a mean one person a couple people or a whole bunch of people you and you don't know whether it's singular or plural but down in the South they have a very clever way if it's one person they say you if it's a few people they say y'all and it's a whole bunch of people like right now it's all y'all have you ever heard this I'm trying to get it instituted up in Michigan because I think it's really good it's a good way to know whether you're referring to one person a group of people are a big group of y'all y'all when Jesus said I give you the keys of the kingdom he did not say I give all y'all the keys he didn't say I give you all the keys he said I give you the keys singular in the Greek to Peter he gave the keys to one man not to all of us and what the keys represent keys represent exclusive Dominion in other words can I go out right now and get in your car and drive to your house and take over your house and live there of course not why not because I don't have the keys do you have the keys those keys that you have your ownership and your dominion over your car in your house but if you come to me and say Steve I'm going away to America for a month and while you're down here why don't you take the keys from my car make sure you stay on the right left side of the road make sure you sit you know I'm always sitting in that note when I'm driving around with Charbel I'm over where I'm normally in the driver's seat and all the time I'm hitting the brakes because I think on this side you're supposed to stop the car so here's the keys for my car stay on the left side of the road when you go and go to my house and here's the keys to my house and while I'm gone for a month would you please stay there and feed the dog and take care of the house for me now I can go in your car and I can go to your house and live there why because you gave me the keys you delegated me the authority I still don't own the keys you own the keys but you gave them to me as a delegated authority to go to your house when Jesus gave Peter the keys that's exactly what he was doing what is Jesus when the angel came to Mary in Nazareth when she was 14 years old with muddy feet and flies buzzing around her head and this is what it was like back in those days you don't think of Mary living like this in Nazareth but it was very rough and she lived in a cave and the angel came and said hail Mary full of grace and then he said you're going to have a son and his name will be Jesus and he will sit on the throne of his father David and Mary knew she was giving birth to a royal son and for 600 years no one had sat on the throne of David because Rome and others had controlled Israel no one had sat on the throne but now all of a sudden the throne is going to be a reestablished and it is Mary's son Jesus who had become the king of Israel and he would sit on the throne and what does a king do when he sits on the throne he appoints his royal cabinet he appoints his ministers who were around him and the number one minister is called the one over the house the majordomo the Vizier the Royal steward it's like a vice president and what the King does is he goes to this new office that he's established of the Royal steward and he says here are the keys of the kingdom you will carry them you will be in charge of opening the gates because I'm gonna sleep in most of the time I'm the king now I'm gonna sleep in until noon you're the one that's going to go out and open up the gates and the Treasury and you're going to administer my kingdom for me and in those days the keys were not the kind that we have now that you carry in your person they're little put in your tumblers in your house or your car the keys were big long chunks of wood like two by fours that's what we call them in America I don't know what you call them here big pieces of wood 2 inches by 4 inches in his luck and they would have prongs on the end of them because the gates were thinking they would have a hole and you'd push this little big key all the way through and they'd have prongs that would flip the latch on the other side and so the man who carried these big keys around on his shoulder would strut through Jerusalem he was the man who worked for the king he was the Royal steward and everybody knew it and in Isaiah 22 it says that he had a special office a special robe he was called the father of Israel and he carried the keys and then Isaiah 22 verse 22 if you want to know about the Pope write that one down Isaiah 22 verse 22 it says you will have the keys of the kingdom of David and what you open no man will shut and what you shut - no man will open this is where Jesus gets his I will give you the keys of the kingdom and what you binds no man what you're buying will be found in heaven and what you loose will be elicited taken from Isaiah 22 in other words it's taking from the idea of the kingdom of Israel and royal kingship because I didn't understand kings and kingdoms used to have a relationship with England we kicked him out 250 years ago and when we did we gave up the whole language of kings and kingdoms and hierarchies and fires and all we talk about is the land of the free in the home of the brave and democracy we're screwing it all up in our country right now but we still talk about it and so this is what Jesus is talking about the keys of the Royal steward and who is he giving them to Peter because when he goes off into heaven he's giving the keys to Peter and Peter like you with your house and your car Peter with those keys that he alone has will have exclusive dominion of the kingdom of God to rule in God's presence on the earth in his kingdom not only will he be the true Shepherd not only will he be the rock but now he is also the vice-president and the one who carries the keys now every time when I go to Rome and I've been there 70 times - because I love to study all these things and to learn about location everywhere you go and Rome and every part of the world you see Peter clutching the keys he's got the keys he's not gonna let him go now I've got a job to do Jesus gave me this job and I'm gonna do it no one's gonna trip these keys from my hands there's one place in Rome I saw orgy Peter is giving the keys away it's in the Sistine Chapel painted by Michelangelo on the front the great judgment scene and there's Jesus and there's Mary and there's Peter and Peter's giving the keys back to Jesus why because it's the Judgment Day it's the end of time we don't have a pope anymore at the end of time we're all now in the presence of the king and Peter's saying Lord who delegated these keys to me I'm returning them to their rightful owner now that we're all back with you again in the kingdom there's a funny thing about that picture I got to tell you this it takes a minute but it's interesting when Michelangelo was painting the judgment scene he painted everybody with no pants on there's all they're all naked and the reason was is because on the Judgment Day we are all everything is field there were no secrets anymore God sees everything and there's judgment and everything is revealed and so Michelangelo symbolically painted it all of us completely naked so to see that weird nothing hidden before God on Judgment Day but there was a cardinal who didn't like this he thought it was rude and that was vulgar then he went to the Pope and he says you tell me Colangelo to put pants on all those people and the Pope talked to me Colangelo and left him do what he wanted to do and the Cardinal kept making trouble so Michelangelo painted the Cardinals face down in hell and not only that but when you look down at the bottom right hand picture this Cardinal is the Lord of hell and he's naked and there's a serpent wrapped around his leg biting the appropriate organs and the Cardinal was furious and he went to the Pope and he says you tell me Colangelo to take me out of town and the Pope said if he had put you in purgatory there's something I could have done but once you're in Hell there's nothing I can do Peter's authority to represent Jesus Christ in the church that's what they represent that's why I'm a Catholic today I'm glad there's someone with the keys because before I was a Catholic I had my Bible and I loved to study and I have 20,000 books in my house why do I have so many books because I wanted to know what the Bible meant I wanted to know what Christian T meant and the more I read the more I studied the more I talked to my evangelical friends the more I realized we could not agree on what the Bible meant and that's why there's 35,000 different denominations and groups around the world today are competing and stealing sheep from one another and the reason that I got those books is because I realized I was the one that had to decide what true doctrine was because there was no Pope and Protestantism whose the Pope of Protestantism when I disagree with you with all of your Protestants and we're all coming up with different interpretations of the Bible and we get into arguments who do exactly what happens you think that all Protestants are the same and they're all together against you they're not they are mostly against each other because they can't agree and then who arbitrates or judges between us nobody every one of us become our own Pope I was Pope Steve I had to come up with my own infallible interpretation of the Bible and my fellow voter protection I could disagree with you and I didn't care what you said because the Holy Spirit revealed it to me and I was the one who knew so I'm glad now that I'm part of a church that has a source of unity in the Pope and by the way whether people realize it or not the Pope is a source of unity for all Christians Protestants and Catholics alike for us we hold to the unity of the Pope the Pope is a source of unity he's like the captain of the team the general leading the army we follow him he's been given a job to be the visible source of unity for the church but for the Protestants and all those who do not are not Catholics do you think they can agree on anything no they can't agree on what the Bible means what it says about Mary about how you get saved they can't agree on anything all of these things do you know the only thing that all Protestants agree on is that they do not accept the authority the Pope so the Pope is the only thing it brings them all together the Pope is a source of a unity for all Christians whether they realize it or not isn't that ironic I love being a Catholic I just love baby I went to a Catholic funeral for the first time three years after I became Catholic and I said not only do I love being a Catholic but that's the way to die too I'm gonna die in Catholic like that I mean if you're gonna go that is the way to go so anyway we touched on the rock and the keys now there's the chair and I know I've already gone over my time but a little bear with me a little bit more the chair who says that there's a chair enrolled that if some old man goes and sits in that he can define doctrine infallibly come on where do you find this in the Bible do you really believe that just because he sits in a chair that means that what he says is gonna be true and it's gonna be accurate and infallible he's a sinner he goes to confession too how can a sinner give you an infallible interpretation of the Bible that's not the toughest question here's a tougher question who wrote the book of Matthew who wrote the book of John and Romans in first and second Corinthians we're not they written by men who were sinners and yet what do we say those letters are an arrant infallible inspired authoritative Word of God breathed by the Holy Spirit which is harder to write infallible Scripture or to give it an interpretation it's much more difficult to write the scriptures so why does anybody make a big deal about a sinner the Pope giving an infallible interpretation when we know that sinners gave us the inspired scripture in the beginning God superintended those writers of the New Testament so that we would know that we had inspired infallible writing right from God himself and God also making sure that we know that when we are taught the scriptures that it is correct he has given men the authority and the terrorism to give us an infallible interpretation of the Scriptures so what about this chair where does this chair idea come from it doesn't start with Jesus or with Peter and it certainly doesn't start in the Middle Ages which I used to think it was that some slick lawyer invented the papacy in the fourth or fifth century the chair begins all the way back in Egypt and Mount Sinai Moses when God first introduced himself by name Abraham did not know God's name Noah did not know God's name Adam and Eve walked in the cool of the garden but they did not know God's name God did not introduce himself by name until he met Moses at the burning bush at the foot of mount sinai and moses said who should I say sent me and God says tell them I am that I am that's my name Yahweh tell them that I am sent you and Moses went up on the mountain and was there for forty days and when he came down any Jewish rabbi will tell you that Moses had three things he had the written word of God on stone he had the oral tradition which was in his head and not written down and he had the chair of Moses to teach with authority it's like a three-legged stool a stool has to have at least three legs to stand you take any of those legs off the stool put balls written word of God oral tradition and the authority of the chair says that Moses took his seat among the people and judge them day and night he took his chair his cathedra he took his seat among the people and Jesus then says in Matthew 23 verse 2 the scribes and the Pharisees they sit in this chair of Peter Moses they sit in the chair of Moses every synagogue had a stone chair up in the front and I'm standing up when I'm teaching you but if I was a Jew would be sitting in a chair which is the chair of Moses which symbolizes my authority to teach and Jesus said the scribes and Pharisees they sit in the chair of Moses therefore do whatever they tell you but the Jews let God down they did not hold his law they did not serve him well so he changes and he says no longer twelve tribes it's now twelve apostles no longer is that the chair of Moses it is now the chair of Peter and before there was ever a New Testament the Christians when they needed to know what to believe or what to teach when the heresies swept through the area where did they go to find the truth not to the New Testament alone because they didn't even have a New Testament for 400 years they still in the year 325 were arguing about what books should belong in the New Testament did you know that 400 years what did they have they had the bishops they had the apostolic succession they had the apostolic tradition and they had the chair of Peter and in 256 still a hundred or more years before the New Testament was finally collected into one book in 256 a man named Cyprian of Carthage before his head was cut off for being a bishop said and it's in my book back there upon this rock I go through all of this stuff in that book it said do if you are not in union with the chair of Peter can you even consider yourself in the church if you are not in obedience to the chair of Peter can you even call yourself a Christian think if you go out and tell that to the evangelicals today listen mister evangelical do you realize that the first Christians judged you as to whether you were a Christian or not based on your loyal to the chair of Peter what today is your loyalty to the chair of Peter are you even sure you're a Christian and in the church no I'm not saying that people outside the Catholic Church are Christians don't get me wrong Vatican 2 clearly defined that but what I am saying is that God gave us a source of unity in Peter with the keys the rock and the chair and we would do ourselves very well to stay in union with that chair because that's the chair that God gave us to bring unity among his people and to give us true and authentic and Orthodox teaching so that's the chair now just quickly what about infallibility how can the Pope be infallible do you think the Pope can tell you what the weather's gonna be or who's gonna win the World Cup and everything I mean now and if he's wrong does that prove he's not infallible he made a mistake it was wrong the teaching and the charism and the promise of God about infallibility does not mean that the Pope is going to know everything and be able to predict everything accurately it doesn't even mean that the Pope is going to speak two things in a timely manner or that he's going to be eloquent about it the gift of infallibility is a negative protection in my books back there I have what's called an imprimatur the bishop signs off an imprimatur and he says this book does not contradict Catholic teaching if you go back and look it does not say the bishop didn't I say I'm giving this improv monitor because I really like this book Steve's a great author and it's well written so I'm giving it my infra Mater nothing of the sort when the Pope gives us in Vermont all he says or the bishop is that in this book there is nothing that is contrary to the Catholic teaching and faith it doesn't mean it's well written or it's good it just means there's nothing in there that is contrary or error and when the Pope speaks infallibly it does not mean that it's going to be timely or eloquent or anything else all it means that when he by the act of his own free will sits in the chair and as the teacher of the church intends to define doctrine that that doctrine will contain no error and that is so that you and I can always listen to the church when the Church officially teaches something and know that we're hearing the truth because there is the chair of Peter when the Pope today sits on the chair of Peter he's not sitting on a chair that's only 2,000 years old he's sitting on a chair that is 3,500 years old because he's sitting on the chair of Moses and the chair of Peter and therefore for 3,500 years the people of God could hear the words thus saith the Lord and Trust it and that's why I'm a Catholic because we can know as an evangelical I could never know but as a Catholic I can and one Pope succeeds another let's go infallibility want two quick examples Peter got out of the boat Jesus said you better walk to me Peter got out of the boat and he walked to Jesus and it fell in the water and we all laugh what an idiot why did he do that if he would have just believed a little worried would have kept walking like you would have done right will laugh at Peter for fall in the water but how many of us would have got out of the boat the other 11 didn't I think that's why Jesus like Peter the best and Peter sank and how did he get back out of the water Jesus reached down and picked him up by the hand right and you may not have thought about it but Peter walked on the water now he walked on the water all the way back to the boat with Jesus and stepped into the boat so he may have fallen in but once he took Jesus's hand he walked on the water all the way back to the boat and this is how it works with the Pope the Pope Peter the first cannot do it on their own when they if they were tried to do it on their own they would fall right into the water the only way the Pope can do what he does and fulfill the ministry and the charism that Jesus gave him is if jesus takes him by the hand and helps him walk that's how it works Peter had a big mouth blurting things out oftentimes wrong how could Jesus say to a man like that whatever you bind on earth I'll ratify in heaven the only way Jesus could say that to Peter is if he intended to superintend to Peter's mouth I'm gonna watch over your mouth now Peter I'm gonna be careful what I let you say now succession how does it get to the point that you say now Benedict the sixteenth is a success by the way is Benedict the sixteenth the successor of John Paul the second no Benedict the sixteenth is a successor of Peter one Pope is not the successor of the one reform every Pope is a successor of Peter how did we get down to two hundred and sixty six of them where do you find that in the Bible first of all you have to see it in the eyes of the Jews when they heard this first the King appointed a royal steward and when the Royal steward died what happened did they throw the keys of the kingdom away in the United States two presidents were assassinated maybe more but at least Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated what happened when they were assassinated or say when George Washington the first president of the United States when he died what happened oh no the presidency is over no more United States know a man was elected to succeed George Washington the seal of the presidency didn't fall off the wall and they didn't stop the presidency they may have found another one to succeed him in office and when Peter died what happens they throw the keys of the kingdom away no it goes to his successor there's Peter there's Linus there's Cletus there's Clement there's Sixtus all the way down to John to Benedict the sixteenth today and I don't know if you've seen this chart or not but this is why I'm Catholic this is your history this is every Pope since Peter this is the oldest existing institution in the world nothing has lasted as long as this office the Roman Empire rose and fell the Byzantine Empire rose and fell the Ottoman Empire rose and fell the British Empire rose and fell the United States is going to rise and fall but there will always be a man seated upon the chair of Peter because it's not a man-made institution it's Jesus Christ who built this church it's Jesus Christ who is doing this and here you have 265 maybe 66 I don't remember but you've got 265 none of them ever taught error as official teachers of the church can you imagine the statistics of having all of these men who never taught officially taught error can you imagine the statistics of that why did that happen because Jesus reaches down and takes every one of their hands and helps them walk on the water and that's why I'm a Catholic and that's why I'll die the Catholic and that's your history right there you should be proud of this this should be in our homes and in our schools in our churches so that people can see that we have a continuity all the way my Baptist Church when did it get started it was still in nappies every Protestant church is still in nappies and we call them diapers in America because they're new they're brand new they're still crawling on their hands and knees what is this this is the church that's been here for 2,000 years and we can trace it all the way back the golden chain of continuity from Benedict all the way back to Peter an unbroken line of popes all the way back who else can do that but you say oh the church doesn't look the same today as it did back then back then there was no popemobile 's and Vatican's it's changed it's not the same thing you didn't see any men walking around in black with white collars it doesn't look the same so it must be different and changed in 1970 I joined a group of 75 people that with great arrogance said that all of the other churches in the world are wrong you're going to start over again and start the real church the Filipinos you have many people in the Philippines trying to do that they try to pull you out and get you to join and Glacia decreased or any of those others brand-new they're going to start all over again when they walk by to brush them off learn how to argue with them keep people from joining them because there's too many groups today that think they're going to recreate the church Jesus started this church 2,000 years ago and he said the gates of Hell will not prevail against it and anyone who says that Jesus failed and so we have to start it over again says Jesus is a liar and that the gates of hell did prevail against it and now I have to start it over again for him there's a certain amount of arrogance in that that I want nothing to do with but let me ask you this as to church is it gonna look different now 2,000 years later than the day it was started in Pentecost with 120 people in the upper room if I went out to you and you took out of your pocket your baby picture when you were 5 days old and said Steve see the resemblance I'm the only one that does because I didn't have any hair then and I don't know but everything else is different I have teeth now I didn't have any teeth then do you look like your baby picture no I would never have a clue if I looked at your baby picture why do we think the church should still look like it did back then if I still would if I was 5 years old and I still looked like I did when I was 5 days old and I didn't change my mom would take me to the doctor and said I think something's wrong with this boy because he's the same as he was five days old he has no teeth he has no hair what's wrong with this boy jesus said the kingdom of God is like a seed that is planted in the ground and when it grows the branches go over the whole face of the earth and all the birds of the world can build their nest in its branch a hundred years later does that tree look like it did the first day when you plant an acorn in the ground does it look the same a year a year later 20 years a hundred years later it looks different but organically it is the same tree it is the same as the Acorn and when Jesus was the grain of wheat that fell into the ground and died and when he was then risen and he made a hundredfold and three hundred and twenty were there in the upper room and then three thousand were added and then five thousand are added and then all the way to Australia all of you were added of course it looks different because the baby is supposed to grow up but it is supposed to become the full mature body of Christ which is why the Catholic Church looks different than it did in the first century praise God it looks different than it did in the first century so these are just some of the ideas about Peter and why I'm a Catholic and why we should be ready and quick to defend the Catholic Church and I didn't even go into behalf of the issues of where you can find this in the Bible but I hope that you see now that you need to not look at it through Baptists glasses but you need to look at it through the eyes of the church and you can trust the church and stay within the church and I'm going to just close with this one illustration that I give in my conversion story usually but I I didn't get a chance to give that to you but I'm gonna close how many have heard my story of the ship and the rafts okay there's only there's about 20 do you mind if I tell everybody else okay you can cover your ears if you've already heard it or go get a drink or something okay this is how I understand the Pope and the Catholic Church and how I understand what I used to be as a Protestant I don't I am now not an aunt Protestant I don't hate Protestants I don't go out to get them I'm not against them or an anti Protestant not at all I have great respect for the way I was raised as a Baptist to love Jesus and to love the Bible and to avoid sin and want to get to heaven in fact my mom and dad are 91 and 89 and they live in my house now with me because they can't take care of themselves anymore so I move turn my dining room my wife and I turned our dining room into a hospital bedroom and I moved my mom and dad in and they live with us and I still thank them almost every day for raising me the way they did but here's how I understand Catholic and Protestant in the place of the Pope in the church imagine the founder of a country builds a city on the other side of the ocean and he calls it the celestial City and he comes on this side to the old country and he builds a ship and he equips it with everything that you could possibly need to get to the other side to his new country heaven and on the ship he puts a captain and a crew and navigational equipment and compasses and he puts food and water and clothes and showers everything you need the ship is the Catholic Church the captain is the Pope the clergy and the bishops are the crew the water is baptism the showers are guess what confession the food is the Eucharist everything you need navigational equipment is scripture the GPS is the tradition everything you need is on that ship to get you to the other side and he calls people he summons them and he calls all of you and says would you like to get on my ship and become citizens of my new country there are special privileges of being a citizen in that country no taxes you will have a mansion your own I go to prepare a place for you and you'll all get on his ship and he says before I smash the bottle of champagne against the bow of the ship I want you all to be forewarned there is going to be storms along the way the ship is going to be tossed to and fro some of you are going to get very seasick and wish you'd never gotten on this ship stay with the calmer seas we'll come and has it the church gone through times where the sea was rough and the storms battered the ship I think we're going through some of those times now and so they're half or they all say okay we'll do it and he says you're not always gonna like everybody here because some of them aren't gonna take their showers as frequently as they should and they're going to start to smell you all agree to go so he smashes the christened the ship the Catholic Church and off she goes through the centuries going across the ocean the halfway across the ocean the singing starts to stop a little bit as some people get disgruntled and they're sick from the waves and but the biggest problem is they say who is that captain to tell me what to do even in my own cabin I'm sick and tired of this bossy crew telling me what to do and what to believe and being in charge in my life and I'm tired of these people that don't take their showers and they're starting to stink on me now and they're not as friendly as they were and I want to get off this ship and so they go down in the bottom of the whirr of the ship and they find wood and they find ropes and they lash them together and they make rafts and they go up and they throw their rafts off the ship and they jump off the ship onto their rafts and now they're free no longer do they have to do what the captain says no longer do they have to go to confession they don't have to do any of these things now they're free and they're on their own raft and they're on their way to go to the celestial City how many rats are there around the ship thirty-five thousand different Protestant denominations and other groups and cults Jehovah's Witnesses Mormons and everything else and everything good though the culture those rafts stayed to the ship the better chance they had to get to the other side the farther they get away from the ship the less chance they have to get to the other side and let me ask you this question everything good they have on the raft where did they get it from from the ship I never knew as an evangelical protestant that everything I had good I had gotten from the Catholic Church the Canon of the New Testament the 27 books the definition of the Trinity the things that I held valuable from my Baptist tradition I had gotten from the Catholic Church but nobody told me that I didn't know that and I was not one that jumped off the ship onto a raft I was born on a raft I didn't even know there was a ship nobody told me there was a ship where were the Catholics that should have told me there was a ship and then one day I'm out on my raft after a big storm the night before I'm all soaked in wet and seasick and I look over in the horizon as it clears and they see something the thing there and I say what is that and they say we don't want to talk about it because it's the ship what you talking about ship you mean there's a ship why am I in a raft if there's a ship who put me on this raft and my wife and I we do our homework we ask a lot of questions in him before you know it we're back in May 22nd 1994 we get back on that ship with my family and I went to the captain and I said captain captain those are all protestin sout there you say it wrong it's not Protestant it's protest n't from the word protest that's where it comes from they're all rebels they're all protesters let's load up the cannons and blast them out of the water this isn't what I say because out there on the raft is my mom and my dad and I know they love the founder of the country and we're baptized and recite the Creed and many of those out there I'd also love the founder of the country maybe even more than some of us Stewart eyes that sometimes they can sing better than we do and I don't want to blast them out of the water so what I say to the Pope is put the cannons away what I want is give me the loudest megaphone that you have testing testing testing I want to call out to all of them and tell them about the ship and I like you used to be in a raft but look what I found the fullness of the faith is here on the ship with a captain and navigational equipment and a roof over my head and showers and food and please all of you who left the ship or who are born on Wrath please come back to the ship and join us so that we can all go to heaven together evangelism does not stop when someone accepts Jesus as their Savior or when they start to read the Bible evangelism ends when the person has found Jesus and they are in one house at one altar table eating one meal together called the Eucharist that's when Evangel a shion's evangelization begins until that point until that point I'm going to share the fullness of Jesus Christ in his church with you and if you disagree with me that's okay but I'm not gonna let you get away with it I'm going to keep coming at you in charity and in prayer of course but my goal in life Janet and I have dedicated our life to call people back to the ship not because we hate Protestants on the raft but precisely because I love them and precisely because they are my brothers and sisters that I believe that unity is where we should all be on the same ship at the same table eating the same meal the Eucharist together thank God we have a captain of our ship don't ever get off the ship start calling from the bow of the ship I'll loan you my megaphone start calling all your family and friends and everybody back to the ship and to get excited about it because we're on our way to glory and God think of God bless you and thank you very much [Applause] [Music] or the question is about the sexual scandal with the priests there was sexual abuse and it happened right after kind of hit the fan right after we became Catholics and people came up to me and said oh aren't you embarrassed to be a Catholic now I bet you wish you didn't join don't you now that they found out all the priests are perverts so what do I say first of all there's very few priests that have caused problems when you take the number of priests in the world today I know priests all over the place that are wonderful holy marvelous dedicated celibate men there are a few too many but there are a few who have caused problems so what do I say when someone comes and asked me that first of all how many times does someone come up and ask you something about the Catholic Church I take it isn't a point of evangelism you want to ask me about the Catholic Church good let's sit down and talk I've got their ear they came and asked me I get to talk to them about the Catholic Church now but what do I say about this issue well first a couple things who said that the priests are gonna be perfect nobody says that what they did is okay I am NOT saying they should be punished to the extreme extent of the law the bishops that allowed it should be held accountable for allowing it for shuffling some of them back and forth but I understand that the bishops back in the 70s when all of this was really going on it's not an issue really today I was in Wisconsin and the news was all about the priest scandal and I said to the bishop I was having lunch with him I said how many men in your diocese are are you dealing with right now he says none the stories you're hearing the most recent one was 18 years ago but the news media won't let it go they keep bringing it up and making it the headlines of the news but back in the 60s and 70s there was the idea that if you put a man like that into therapy you could heal him there was a 60s and 70s which if you weren't around back then which was a very bad time and by the way the vestiges of the 60s and 70s are still rumbling through the church today unfortunately but it's dying out most of you won't have to deal with it like others have the generations before you but there was the idea that if you sent this priest with this problem into a therapy you could heal him so if we put him over here for now he'll be healed in a year too and it won't be a problem well that was misguided information and it doesn't work and so I say to people Jesus had 12 bishops one of them was Judas he was a bad guy there's no way in the world that did priests out there one out of 12 is bad Jesus had were statistics than we have today and if Jesus couldn't pick twelve guys that were going to be perfect and follow him perfectly then he's got a big problem I mean today the priest is not anywheres near one out of 12 that are a problem second of all who said that priests were going to be perfect are you perfect do you follow all the commands of Jesus perfectly you've been baptized you have the Holy Spirit of God indwelling you you've been confirmed which gives you the power to live the Christian life and to resist it are we perfect how can we expect that the priest is going to be perfect although we do hold them to a very high standard because they wear the collar and they have been called to be our Shepherd so we do hold them to a high standard but who says that they're going to be perfect you know the priests go to confession too I have some dear friends of mine who are priests and they tell me the struggles that they go through just like we do and they're sinners as well another thing is do you realize that the problems within with sexual abuse of children and minors and others and women is worth at least double bad in Protestant churches as it is in the Catholic Church did you know this does the media tell you this that the problems are far worse than Protestant churches and they're double that more so in public schools and where's the media why aren't they going and pointing at the Protestants about it all the time why aren't they going into the public schools and pointing to the teachers and the principals and those in the public schools that are abusing children where the problems are far worse why don't they do that because the public schools and the Protestant churches are not the enemy of the world jesus said that they hated me they're gonna hate you and the Catholic Church our steeple goes far higher up in the sky than anyone elses we hold a higher standard for morality than any other group as an evangelical protestant I went to my pastor and I said I want to talk to the people about abortion he says you will not talk about abortion in my church we have no business being involved in politics and governments and medicine we're here just to get people to read the Bible and be Christians and plus there's a lot of women in my group in my church that are getting abortions and I'm not going to rock the boat the Catholic Church has very high standards and morals and she's not going to change them nobody's going to out vote God in the Catholic Church what is wrong is wrong and the Catholic Church stands tall it says to the world contraception is sin abortion is sin divorce and remarriage is sin homosexual unions is sin all of it well we don't like that word sin do we that's politically incorrect Steve shut up they're called sin and the Catholic Church has declared them to be sin and it still does and the world and the media hates the Catholic Church because of it and do you think that when one of ours Falls that they're not going to point the finger and put it on the headlines of the news Catholic priest the fact is is the problems are far worse than other places they are far less in the Catholic Church and most of the problems came about in the sixth in 70s and 80s during a very bad time in the church because of a lot of ideas and liberals and others that came in and were trying to change the church and they weren't careful of who they allowed into the seminaries both the teachers and the students and so we're suffering some of that but it's being cleaned up judgment begins with the household of God and I happen to have if somebody comes and asks me about the sexual abuse scandal with the priests I just about slammed them against the wall and this is why a member of my family was sodomized by a married Baptist Baptist deacon at 12 years old not a Catholic priest sodomized in the basement bathroom of the church at 12 years old by a married Baptist deacon and so when somebody says what about those Catholic priests I say they are wrong they should be punished they should be removed and the bishops who allowed it should be punished as well but don't just point to the Catholics it is not a Catholic problem it is not because of celibacy or that Mary Deacon would not have done this it is not an issue to deal with celibacy it is not only a Catholic problem it is a human problem and then I say to people when the priests least when there you say don't I wish I wasn't the Catholic now that there was a prayer this scandal is exposed but when I don't see you in the United States getting on planes boats and trains to leave the United States and to be Cove citizens of another country and they said what are you talking about I said we had the worst sex scandal ever it had happened in the White House with Bill Clinton and that doesn't in any way you don't all of a sudden say oh no the presidency is terrible the United States government is awful I'm gonna leave the United States and go somewhere else no what you say is there's a boom in the office get him out of the office it's a good country it's a but you got a bum in the office get rid of them clean up the house and let's keep going and that's what I say is a Catholic when you've got sinners in those positions and people that are violating their vows get rid of them and then let's go on being proud to be Catholic so this is what I say it's a great opportunity for evangelism make sure that you support the priests that you know make sure that you let them know that you love them make them proud to continue wearing a collar do you know how tough it is in this climate for a priest to go through the street with his collar on it takes great courage for him to do that because sometimes they get spit on nowadays there's not a priest that goes by me in an airport on the street in a restaurant that I don't drop what I'm doing and I go right over to him and I say are you a Catholic priest and he says yeah why and I hug him and I say thank you for being a priest I'm a Catholic convert I used to not like you guys now I love you and thank you for serving the church there's not a priest that goes by me in the last 10 years that I have not done that to you should do the same you should let them know that you support them that you love them that you retire them for what they do instead of complaining about priests and so on let's pray for them and let's encourage them and support them [Applause] and why are priests celibate by the way you know there's a lot of reasons why I could go back to the New Testament I can give all the evidence from the New Testament from the history of the church but just some very practical reasons this priests are celibate because they need the time to take care of us when you are a father and I can tell you as a father with a wife in the back she's expensive she's not as expensive as some but then I have four kids and eight grandkids and guess what it takes my time and Paul says in the first Corinthians 7 I wish all of you were like me because when you're married and have a family you're divided attention to you give it to your family there's not much to the Lord and Paul says I wish all of you were celibate like me so that you could give all your attention to the church I have a bride and I have children the priest has a bride who's his bride the church I wake up every morning with that woman and I am a lucky man the priest can't sleep with a woman like that he can't marry a woman and wake up with the benefits that I do every day with a wife and children but he has a bride every day I wake up I do not assume that she's going to love me I have to work at the relationship and a priest can't just assume you're gonna that he has to work at the relationship to my marriage to my wife is not a career it's not a job if I go through her tonight and I huh I don't hug her I just say well you're my job I'm not going to get the response that I want but to me that relationship is a passionate love affair and for a priest the church is his passionate love affair where he takes care of the church and he serves the church you know you can call him at 2:00 in the morning father I need your help I need confession I need you to anoint me what if he has a wife and five kids and one of them is graduating that night and he can't come to you because you're sick and you know that 80% of Protestant pastors wives have suffered serious depression 80 percent you know why because most of the Protestant pastors are so busy with other people's families they don't have time for their own and the worst kids in the Protestant Church are called P K's I know preachers kids they're the worst ones in a church because they resent their father never having time for them they are always with someone else and if you had priests who were married we complain now about how much we have to give on Sunday morning can you imagine if you had to buy two minivans for him and pay for his kids to go to college and everything else you wouldn't want to put that in the collection plate be glad there Sullivan be glad they're giving you their time [Applause] [Music] okay good I'm glad you asked that question yes we do need apologetics and yes we need to confront and yes we need to point out the differences we can do it with charity and humility I put up a blog on my website a couple of weeks ago called was Jesus nice and my conclusion is no he was not nice but he was honest and he loved and sometimes love is tough I have my children I love them I spanked them they said you don't love me you spanked me no I spanked you because I love you love is tough jesus said to the Pharisees you whitewash suppli curse who warned you to flee the wrath to come you whitewashed Sep liquors if inside of you as dead men's bones Jesus took rubber cords and wove them into a whip and he went into the into the temple and he whipped and he knocked over their tables this is not nice he's confronting error he's confronting the wrong now Vatican 2 says that those outside the Catholic Church who are baptized and who are evangelicals are brothers and sisters though that they can be I agree completely but that doesn't mean that I don't confront them and I don't discuss the differences what happens too often is people have a false view of what acumen ISM is acumen ISM means one house that's the original the word accuse own Protestants cannot have a concept of there being one house for a Protestant the concept of Okuma nism is a whole bunch of different groups trying to get along together the Catholic can't have that view because they knew that Jesus formed one Church Jesus started one Church he said I pray that they will all be perfected in unity like you and I are unity so that the world may know that the father sent the son there's one church for the Catholic that is the definition of unity of a human ISM means all of us coming back into one house having one meal at one table and so then we think that we can't confront one another not and I'm not saying that you do I understand what you're coming to you but you have a very honest question and I'm and I'm not in any way arguing with that even I appreciate your question because I've already been asked in Australia that same question 10 times and I've only been here four days I don't get this question in America I get this question in Australia and the question comes it's a it's a fair question but I mean we need to confront people about these things we need to talk about differences I am not loving or charitable if I ignore the differences if I know that there's a problem and so on and it doesn't mean that I'm arrogant but if the church is the church and if there is the truth then we need to declare the truth even if it hurts somebody's feelings if you come and loan me money and I go to my checkbook and I add up two plus two you gave me two dollars yesterday and two dollars today and I add it up and comes to three and I give you three dollars you're not gonna like that because two plus two is four and if two plus two is four it's not three and it's not five and if the Catholic Church is the true church that Jesus founded with the complete truth and all of it there then other things are not the truth they may have parts of the truth they may be portions of the truth but there's not the whole truth and to me to not confront is to be uncharitable and not to be honest now you can do it also in different ways and in different times this talk I was asked to explain Peter and the rock the keys in the chair and the differences between what I believed as a Protestant and that what I believed as a Catholic and I did that I don't call people liars because I used to go around telling you that this well the things that you'd believed are wrong I wasn't a liar I lied to you but I wasn't a liar because I was convinced I was telling you the truth see the difference to call someone a liar is a very you've got to be careful because you don't know their heart or what their intent is if they are intending to deceive you then they're a liar if they're telling you what they believe to be the truth and they're not a liar even though they are telling you possibly a lie and I used to tell you lies but I wasn't a liar and so I look at what my past taught me as an evangelical and I was taught lies I was taught there's no Pope that nothing happens at the altar it's just bread and wine and the Catholics are idolaters and stupid because they're worshipping a piece of bread those were lies but they people who told me weren't liars they were deceived about what it was and now that I've come to a fullness of the truth I don't think that I'm being arrogant because if I'm being arrogant then the whole church is being arrogant and Jesus I gave my talk one time at Caesarea Philippi about the rock the keys in the chair and the woman was with her archbishop with me on that trip and she was in charge of religious education for the whole diocese and this woman came up to me and said you are an elitist because I said the Pope was appointed by Jesus to lead his church and he was given the keys only him was given the key you were an elitist an arrogant elitist I don't think I'm an elitist because if I am one I'm in good company because Jesus is the one that gave the keys not me so I believe in ecumenical dialogue I believe in praying with people but I don't believe in ignoring it the differences and acting like everything's okay and that we just go on with kind of a sentimental type gushy love and not the tough love that we need to have I think the reason that some of us are the our society is in such bad shape today is because Catholics have the idea that we shouldn't ever say anything to hurt people's feelings Jesus was not nice but he was loving and he was tough love just like I have to be with my children I can't let them do whatever they want and get away that I need to practice a tough flow and so I think I think that that does it I do want to follow up I mean [Applause] yeah all right go okay Ron okay all right but I appreciate it and I know that you weren't arguing you were just asking theoretically how do you how do you deal with this you know what what do you say when people say that I appreciate it and I'm going to do that because you know when I came to Australia I find that this is really very prevalent yeah yeah yeah yeah but you know also it you're dealing with Muslims and Islam and I think that we're going to have to start to confront that too because if we as Christians or even a free society do not deal with the issues of Islam we're going to be blindsided someday you go to countries where they have pushed the Christians out and then find out that it's too late to do anything about it we have to be aware of what Islam is - we have to be aware of what other religions are and what their intents are and we need to be as Christians quite vocal and we need to be involved in our culture and in our church and we need to stand up for what's true even if it means dialogue and not being nice sometimes but God bless you and thank you very much [Music] [Music] you

Channel: ParousiaMedia

Views: 50,348

Rating: 4.8576512 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, Peter, The Rock, The Keys, The Chair, The Keys to the Kingdom, Faith, Hope, Love

Id: 0HY0PQ4Zuag

Length: 104min 7sec (6247 seconds)

Published: Mon Sep 30 2019