Pathfinder: WotR - The State of Build Guides

[Music] what's going on everybody mortum here this time bringing you a video about the state of like build guides basically and this is a video i've wanted to make but i have been approaching it in a way that i was hoping you know wouldn't sound like i was trying to attack anybody in particular because that's definitely not what this channel or myself is all about in fact i usually go to great lengths to make crpgs as open and as understandable as possible for people but as anybody watching this channel would know i make a ton of pathfinder content these days including build guides of my own as the title you know might seem a little uh aggressive and i hope it didn't but as someone who makes a lot of that content youtube likes to show me a lot of that content and i often see builds and things come across my suggestions that kind of stuff and i watch a few of them here and there and there's one very consistent problem that i see with these build videos not to say that mine are perfect in any way but this particular problem is kind of just across the board with most of these videos i wanted to talk about it because i was talking about it actually on stream yesterday and i was like man maybe i should go ahead and make that video that said let's actually jump into it so what is the problem with most build guide videos the problem is is that they always show you the absolute max level stuff it's always here you are at level 20 all of your mythic path all of your levels all of your dips here's what is maximum for this build and the problem with that is that especially on higher difficulties most people are never going to reach that point you know when you get mythic rank level 10 it's literally like a couple of fights before the end of the game and when you're making builds that require like seven or eight levels worth of dips before you actually get to the regular levels of your build you are going to have a pretty tough time getting by on unfair difficulty because what these videos will show is like oh look at how great this build is at this level which is max level all of the stuff unlocked they use mods and stuff to show you fights against enemies and the main problem is it's just not actually a realistic approach to a build when i make my builds myself i usually show like mid-level combat on the difficulty at which i recommended it because anybody can turn a mod on and plow through unfair difficulty to a point where they can kind of show this stuff off but what these videos never do is they never actually show this person using this build in the early parts of the game where it is functionally useless because of all this weird stuff they're doing to maximize damage etc so i think what would serve much better in these instances is if they are confident that their build could actually do this that could actually like take unfair on then show me that early game gameplay show me that build going through cannabis caves show me the prologue don't show me your level 20 max mythic rank modded in equipment of the best of the best stuff and what is essentially theoretical maximums that most players will never reach that kind of stuff is misleading because reality is even if someone is playing they probably won't find most of that equipment anyway and the people that are actively trying to advance and get better at the game those build guides are not useful because they are not accurate representations of what playing the game actually looks like and i guess that's my main gripe because when i show builds my goal is to show you something that you can actually play through the game because you know what else you can't do on unfair difficulty without changing the difficulty it's respecting you're not allowed to respect your characters on unfair so if you're after that unfair achievement you can't oh use this build to get through the prologue and then respec because you'll have to change the difficulty settings to do that and while i do not fault these builds at all like on a spreadsheet mid max kind of thing they're very impressive they are the problem is i do not see them as being genuinely useful to get you through the game and more than anything i just i think that's the part that these builds kind of get stuck on they get stuck in that theory crafting part of it and they never bother to actually like run through the game with this build to test and i get it that's hard to do because ultimately like the first like one to level 10 is going to take you on a very quick turn if you're very good at it at a minimum about 10 to 12 hours now that's on like normal and core if you are on unfair probably going to take you longer if you have to reload several times and stuff like that makes those builds hard to test and that's why they would rather use mods to spawn all this equipment in spawn their character in level them show them mythic ranks etc etc but again my my actual fundamental point here is that that is misleading most characters are never going to see that most characters that use that build and try to play it legitimately in game are not going to have a good time if they actually try to use it on anything above core but there you go guys without repeating myself a bunch that's kind of really what i've got for you i hope that didn't sound too like accusatory it's just a criticism i see in a lot of the builds that i look at sometimes i just feel like people forget that there comes a point where the theory crafting has to end and playing the game actually has to start but there you go guys there is my video for the day i hope you enjoyed it by all means give me your two cents down below like comment subscribe all that youtube jazz but seriously comment give me your ideas i read all of that stuff i do not pretend to be all-knowing in any way regardless of any of that though truly thank you so much for watching may you wander in wisdom and have an amazing day [Music] you

Channel: Mortismal Gaming

Views: 23,156

Rating: 4.9416666 out of 5

Keywords: Mortym, Mortismal Gaming, Pathfinder, WotR, Wrath of the Righteous, Guides, Builds, Difficulty, Unfair, Core

Id: YgcwGqoZWaU

Length: 5min 28sec (328 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 24 2021

Reddit Comments

[u/Jenos]

He's absolutely right. This is not a problem specific to Wotr - you see this all the time in DnD and regular Pathfinder. So many builds focus on the level 20 build, and not about the experience. In actual PnP play, the vast majority of players never play above level 10. I'm talking 75%+ of players have never played DnD above level 10. Yet, you go to any subreddit like /r/3d6 or some such, and its all level 20 builds with a focus of optimization at 20, and not level 10.

The reality is that you are going to spend dozens of hours below level 10. You spend half the game below mythic rank 5. So builds have to not be reliant on mythic abilities to function. If your build doesn't come together until mythic rank 5, its not a viable build.

The other part that he doesn't touch on is that a lot of build guides don't consider saves. Demons are nasty in this game. And so many builds don't have an answer to: "How do you deal with Unholy Nimbus? How do you deal with Stunning Screech? How do you deal with Confusion?" If you can't find a way to survive, you're going to be in for a world of reloading.

[u/JeanMarkk]

I always make my builds around lvl 7/8, then progression to lvl 14.

Lvl 1 to 5 go by fairly quick, but once you get to lvl 7 is where things slow down enough that your build can finally start to settle down.

By then pretty much all classes have their main tools online, you can start going into prestige ones and dips won't cripple your progression as much.

[u/emize]

To be the most important part of the game is act 3. You just got you mythic path, the game opens up, crusade starts. This is where the game really ramps up and your build needs to be fully online by now.

[u/BattleBull]

I’ll post it here in case anyone notices it. Since it’s a general build question.

I’ve made it to act 4 and I’ve found that most of my party has worse AC when wearing armor than when not wearing armor.

Is this something that is part of the pathfinder system that happens if you run people high in dex, or something I’m just getting wrong?

It feels a little sad that I effectively ignore all cool armor (except on one person and barding on my pets) because it makes my folks worse overall.

Just a general question if anyone has some general insight on armor usage.

EDIT: Thank you for your responses and insight!

[u/NamelessCommander]

Because otherwise, it's too easy to suggest a seemingly optimized build that's horrendous to play for most of the game. For instance, here goes a technically super optimized build; dump all your stats and put everything into DEX then go Gold Dragon path! Free stats galore!

You get to level 20 toward the end of the game, with the big chunky fights done and dusted. Act 4 mechanics spoiler Unless you abuse the arena. You unlock mythic 10 Act 5 mechanics spoiler 5 minutes before the end credits.
And you'll probably miss a bunch of items depending on your paths, choices, crusader research and so on.

[u/demonica123]

Glaive cultists at level 1 are pretty easy. Just be a grease sorc with maxed charisma. The party should handle the rest.

[u/Frozen_Dervish]

The other thing is builds don't have to be solo viable as you have a party to take care of gaps in weakness. Casters won't be doing much for a while especially if you play with as few rests as possible.

[u/KaikoLeaflock]

My experience as a complete novice and youtube videos was learning that they're often showing luxury specs that assume the rest of your party is actually going to be the workhorses carrying you through all the actual mechanics of saving throws and dealing with unhittable overly immune enemies throughout the game—glorified storymode builds.

I probably shouldn't have started on unfair (I've since lowered it to core with respecs), but I would definitely like more build guides that focused less on like specific builds, and more on ways to deal with saving throws, various enemy buffs and what to do when you can't dispel those buffs or how to negate those buffs, how to deal with things like 30+ will saves every round that have your entire party running around like idiots, etc . . .

Maybe I'm just dumb though . . . idk. Maybe that's just stuff you have to learn through playing . . . thank god for respecs.

[u/RedditTotalWar]

I also find that in the theory crafting world, sometimes there's an overemphasis of making builds the sole determining factor in terms of what kind of challenges/fights a party or character is capable of dealing with.

I.e. too much focus on "is my build is good enough for X difficulty?", vs. "how would I deal with X with the builds I have"?

Unfortunately, sometimes it's not that your car is not up to task - you're just not driving it well enough. Now that is not to say that all builds are equally powerful and viable (I think that's equally faulty) - but I just don't like seeing people dismissing certain builds, styles, or compositions out of hand purely from a theory-crafting standpoint.