Parental Alienation Syndrome Part 3: Treatment and Outcomes

[Music] [Music] welcome back it's good to see you richard good morning good morning good morning um you doing okay doing all right and here we are on this last the last weekend of of i was going to say we're sliding out of august yep and we are we're here to talk about this our final uh week on this topic of parental alienation and um you know we've talked about what it is we've talked about the effects on the child uh short and long-term effects on the child and today we're going to wrap it up talking a little bit about the effects on the parent but also talk a little bit about where do we go from here how to treatment and and healing and trying to get through this all right as you mentioned the past two uh podcasts this is a topic that we don't we don't know a great deal about it um you know we don't we don't know much about the topic we know it's exceedingly damaging to everybody involved um but they're they're uh there are major part parts of this that we know um we know frighteningly little about and so but we want to talk about some of those other issues we talked about the effects on children we you know talked about what it is and why it occurs now we want to talk about the effect on the alienated parent and what we can do about that what what the alienated parent might do because they're the they're the one in the uh most disadvantageous position when it comes to parental alienation uh absolutely and you know if you're if you want to hear more about the effects on a child you can check out last week's podcast right um but you know again we want to we want to emphasize that parental alienation is different than estrangement it's different than um just being separated it's just it's different than uh and it's different than um a child not wanting to be with a parent you know for for lack of a better phrase for just terms for just for reasons you know a lot of times that you will see that when there's you know a history of abuse or effect and things like that but you know what we're talking about here is a situation where usually following a divorce um a child has been turned against a parent they had a a previously strong relationship uh but they've been turned against that that parent by the other you know the the the um alienating parent and um you know by by twisting some of their memories and by you know just presenting things and talking about things in a really negative way against the other parent right yeah i think that that's the important difference here is we're talking about the difference between alienation and estrangement is an alienation there was a previous positive relationship um you know the the parent and the child got along just fine and suddenly there's there's a divorce and suddenly there's this there's this alienation that occurs there's this separation and the child um moves away from that targeted parent and for no apparent reason right the alien the targeted parent really didn't do anything to deserve it and that's the difference between estrangement and alienation so we're talking about we don't want to mix those two because there there are times when a parent has either been neglectful or maybe abusive and there's a good reason why the child doesn't want to be with the parent but we're talking about alienation where there was a good relationship now that relationship no longer exists or there's a could even be a hostile relationship has been before absolutely so as we as we turn to talk about the effect on the targeted parent or the alienated parent you know we we found a great article from psychiatric times and we'll have a link in the show next to it and written by um a couple of physicians who are talking about the experience of another uh colleague of theirs uh who experience parental alienation um and and they talk about uh the the um the experience and the the turmoil that that uh colleague experienced as well as uh there's a portion of the article from a forensic psychiatrist who talks like it can be prevented and treated so that the link is in the show notes but what we'll kind of talk a little bit about um about that article and what that experience was right what i like about this article that it does contain both parts it's a very personal account of a colleague of theirs but it's also there's also a section the second section the article is written by a forensic psychiatrist who looks at the legal and long-term effects um and and possibly prevention of parental alienation so it contains both parts which i think is really helpful right absolutely and so i think that the the again we're focusing on the the effects of the uh alienated parent i think one of the one of the things that the physician talked about because their colleague talked about is that is is how suddenly without really any any warning or any any um you know any any signs um nothing that he could say or do was okay right it was like everything changed and all of a sudden he was um demonized and he was just public enemy number one you know all of a sudden everything has changed you know the kids that he had a good relationship with um suddenly didn't want to talk to him anymore didn't want to see him didn't want to talk to him um ghosted him they called ghosted him you know what are they they um i'm going to do what on facebook i'm going to what do they call it when you cut somebody out unfriend them is it that what it is unfriend you now there's another term for it but they they get ghosted they it's like their kids just disappear um they don't get you know there's no communication no father's day card no birthday wishes they're unavailable at holiday times they they uh they go to grad they go to ceremonies they go to awards ceremonies or school productions or band concerts or athletic competitions but they're not invited they're not really a part of it they can observe but they can't be a part of it and this is that there's this sudden break that makes no sense to them he calls it he refers to it as the adversary that accepts no compromise that's kind of a good explanation a good uh description of it there there is no compromise here yeah and what's crazy is that all of those things and and you know if in the event that the alienated parent attempts to do some of those things attempts to go to an award ceremony or attempt to school that sort of adds fuel to the child's frustration and anger with the parent yeah what are you doing here you know you know you're not welcome in my life you know well i'm going to an athletic competition you're not welcome here and and it does it can further alienate the parent right parents trying to do the right thing and it just fuels the child's anger yeah yeah and and sadly you know many refer to to this as as though the alienated parent has lost the child like in the death of a child it's like unexpected right and unexpected and premature death you know that that's kind of it's sort of what the child is going through the child and the parent right is going through what they the similar experience as if uh one or the other had died prematurely unexpectedly yeah and so this and this loss and i think um what's what with people that i've worked with who've experienced this the real challenge is they know you know many times the parent knows exactly where the child is you know you know if i turn down this road and go right down there that's where he is right but i can't have any contact with him or i you know they the child re resists me or pushes me away or doesn't allow me to have anything to do with him and so there's that very odd experience of knowing exactly where the child is knowing what you know knowing how they could get to them how they could get access to them but at the same time not being allowed and being restricted from them because of the child's behavior often times um and having no contact with them so it's really really an odd and strange position for the parent to be in yeah really and i've seen that i've seen it in the office where children will get become irate if the alienated parent attempts in any way to reconcile to talk to do something you know hey you want to go out and have dinner do you want to go out and go for a walk and the child becomes irate it's it's a it's an immediate um [Music] verbally aggressive um stance by the child they really they really push they really push hard against the alienated parent right and so the parent experiences all of the the same like we said a moment ago all the same type of loss the same grief and and you know sometimes it it is accompanied by by guilt by feelings of guilt that you know what is going on and what is happening is you know losing that relationship with a child and again it is important to note that prior to the alienation the parents and the child typically had a pretty strong relationship they had their prior relationship with was very positive and many times very strong right but now all of a sudden it's it's deteriorated to nothing that's right that's right not only not only is it gone it's adversarial right it's aggressively adversarial um kids kids can get really really hostile um and and that's it's a shock to the parent you know because it seems to come out of nowhere but to identify it and that's one of the issues the the previously good relationship is one of the factors in determining whether alienation has occurred there's something known as the five factor model yeah that's used to identify parental alienation it's things we've talked about already the first factor is the child avoids resists and refuses okay of course the second factor is the president the presence of that previously positive relationship that i think is the defining characteristic here you had a good relationship so that's the second factor then the third factor is there is no abuse or neglect we talked about that that's the difference between estrangement and uh alienation but doesn't mean well that doesn't mean that there aren't allegations or right accusations of abuse many times many many times there are allegations and accusations that they're unsubstantiated and there's no evidence or there's there's never any any substance to it right yes sadly we see that in a number of cases where false allegations of abuse are made it's sort of the you know it's it's akin to bringing out the really heavy artillery a parent will try desperately even if there wasn't abuse they'll allege that abuse occurred and that sets the legal uh wheels into motion um and even if it's not true it's very disruptive it's it's additionally disruptive to an already difficult process then the fourth factor is multiple alienating behaviors by the favorite parent the parent will continue to use other tactics to to make that separation even wider and the fifth factor is the um the eight behavioral manifestations of alienation that are experienced by the child and we didn't we're not going to discuss these in the podcast but if you go to the article there's a table right on the first page of these eight behaviors and so if you're interested in those there's a really easy to follow table in the first page of that article and as you said it's the website for the article um is in the show notes right and that and and we went through those in in you know the previous podcasts um uh when we talked about where we introduced apparently so once we recognize that it's happening and and as we're moving towards what we're going to do how we're going to treat it we need to talk about the severity exactly alienation and you know there there is the sort of the mild moderate and severe as we often think often think about um some of these conditions and and mild parental alienation is when the the child resists um contact with the other parent this some of that but once they get there and they kind of get comfortable and things like that then the child seems to enjoy the relationship and things are okay but but again that active resisting has to be there that like we talked about a moment ago that sort of hallmark is that the child is actively resisting and and um sort of opposes the other parent actively uh it's just that once they get there and they you know if they're this is one of the arguments for um really pressing the child to have visitation because once they get there then they tend to enjoy the time now later on they may say they don't later on they may say that it was horrible and all that kind of stuff but at least while they're there they tend to enjoy the time together that's right you you kind of touched on that last week when you said that you made you made the point that frequently that the child would go to the alienated the targeted parent they will profess i don't want to go i don't want to go but when they're there they have a good time and and so the the targeted parent says oh okay things are getting better child goes back to the alienating parent say oh i hated it i didn't like it because they want to stay alive to the alienating parent right so the last thing the child know that child knows that they can't i had a great time everything's great i love that you know i love my mom i love my dad i like the other kids who are there we had a great time that's the last thing that the child can say to stay allied to the alienating parent right and so so they go home and say it was terrible but it really wasn't terrible you know they're feeding off each other um but that's different than a moderate alienation yeah all too often we see that yeah because with moderate we we see that persistent uh opposition to um to the to the visitation so that uh strongly resists contact and even when they're there they still resist interacting with the parent as much as they can they may stay in their room the whole time they may they try not to interact with them too much they will go for the visitation eventually um they'll press against it and press against it as much as they can but even when they're there they're still opposing the other parent and resisting any contact or as much contact as they can right one of the common things we get in the legal system is a judge will say i want you to see the parent twice a week for two hours for a two hour visit i want you to go two hours on tuesday two hours on thursday right the children agree they go to the targeted parent they don't speak they don't eat they don't drink they don't accept anything they stay silent when the two hours are up they go home so that's moderate alienation they will go but they remain uh passively aggressive right and they have no con they have no discussion no comment even even though the targeted parent will offer hey you guys want coke do you want a drink you want to eat something do you want to go out no no no no no they're there but um they remain uh persistently oppositional right and then then of course severe is that the child not only opposes the idea of visitation or anything but the child adamantly refuses contact to the point where they may even try to run away or they'll try to hide or or do something to to resist or prevent having to go visit the alienated parent you know we see this of course when the when the alienating the um the parent that the child has allied with where that parent is really see apparently obsessed with the idea of turning the child against the other parent right in those cases we see this risk of severe parental alienation at its peak but the child again the child not only opposes the idea but actively does things to refuse um any contact with the other parent right right and and then you you you know everybody worries about am i doing more damage by forcing the child to be there you know it almost takes physical um physical restraints to get the child in the car and get them to the other parent so then you say am i doing more damage than i want to do in that case so um so the general agreement you know is there any way to prevent alienation um there is if the parents begin with an amicable separation and divorce the problem is if you can have an amicable divorce you can probably have an amicable marriage i mean if two parents are able to get along chances are they wouldn't be getting divorced so you have sort of an adversarial um set of circumstances in the beginning you know parents are already angry with each other right i well i think that when i work with parents who are getting divorced what i what i talk to them about is that you know sure you may even be in a situation where the marriage is no longer going to work out right however you both have the obligation of raising kids you you have you have to you have to be allies all right each other with the common goal of raising healthy you know emotionally strong children um what what happens is when we when the parents become so adversarial that they in essence seek to punish the other parent um and and that really seems to be the the source of a lot of this is where they where they just want to harm the other parent that's right they they see this as a win lose um you know i'm i'm losing i'm losing my marriage so i'm going to win i'm going to do all of like all that i can to win as much as i can and of course the most valuable thing in a relate in a marriage are the children everybody agrees with that so if i want something i want you know some some people want money and some people want time and so you know but mainly we want the kids you know we want to maintain a relationship with children but you're right many times parents will seek to alienate in order to win in order to punish the other parent right sometimes it's just to gain the support of the children because you're because a parent is going through this tumultuous upheaval and they're feeling very emotionally vulnerable and they want support wherever they can get it and frequently all sadly they seek support and comfort from their children and we talked about that last week about adultification you know you're relying on the children um so one is to punish but other is to get uh support and comfort well right and the the real concern too is is when the parent when one of the parents is so emotionally or especially vulnerable sure they can't cope with things and so they don't have anybody else and only sees them you know damaged and and sad and you know um unable to function especially you know depending on the age of the child right i'm gonna really pull that child to like i cannot believe that the other parent put this put my mom through this or my dad through this and you know so it's not necessarily in those situations it's not necessarily active um the parent isn't necessarily doing it intentionally um not at first at least but but it does kind of start organically that way um you know so so parents have to be you know if we with our hopes to prevent it parents have to be willing to work with one another in an amicable way um in a way that suggests that you know we both want what's best for the kids we both want them to have a relationship with both of us with both parents and we got to be willing to you know get the outside help that we need that's right to cope with what's what we're going through with the divorce so that we don't pull the kids into the middle of it that's right you don't turn to the child for support the children are having their own struggles everybody's struggling through this if you need emotional support get it from somebody else get it from a relative get it from a therapist get it from a friend get the support you need from other people keep your children out of that of playing that supportive role okay so first of all you never denigrate the other parent that's rule number one and second you don't rely on the child for emotional support that's not that no child should be put in that position they need help that you know the child needs emotional support that's what we should be doing um you know of course have those difficult discussions when your children aren't around and then in the end you might have to accept the other uh the other parents uh your ex-spouse's new partner okay and that's another huge set of challenges that you have to accept that person because if you don't what's going to happen is the the the pale the targeted parent starts a new relationship and that further divides everybody because the the children of the first marriage um feel uh disenfranchised they feel well i'm not a part of of let's say dad's new life well no you you've elected not to be or you haven't been and so you're not part of the new life which further alienates the children you know so so you you get this as you say this is the organic sort of uh development that occurs with it increases the alienation right yeah i think that parents often have to remember that you know the the court system sort of has a default that it that it immediately looks for it's always for the best welfare the best the best interest of children right but what many states like here in florida their their first default is now 50 50. right yeah it's not a law it's not it's not in the cube but that's the the aspirational goal right is shared parental responsibility right it's difficult i think for for one to say um well you know my ex-spouse now um shouldn't have shouldn't be left alone with the kids because you know he or she makes really bad choices or something when just you know three months before you were perfectly willing to leave the children home alone with that spouse and but at that time y'all were married and everything was you know well y'all were still married living in the same house and everything and now all of a sudden the person isn't you know isn't trustworthy enough to leave the church so those kinds of things you know parents really have to think about that and and recognize that you know the the law the the the system is going to going to automatically start working in the direction of 50 50 or something right and and you're there's going to have to be a preponderance of evidence to suggest that it shouldn't be that way that's right that's right that's what that's what the courts are going to be seeking and the other thing you can do is you consider you can consider something like mediation or collaborative divorce collaborative divorce is a system that puts the child first in other words the parents have to put their needs aside let's take care of the children both with visitation financial future education all that stuff is becomes the focus so the welfare of the children become the focus in collaborative divorce right so if if personal alienation happens you know right there's a couple of different things to do one one to go through the court system is tough because they need you need proof that it's happening and it's hard to prove you know the trouble with the trouble with you you really can't go through the courts parental alienation is exceedingly difficult to prove and you have to document it well how do you document it well you could call witnesses well who are the witnesses they're family friends and family members you know who see the alienation and you're asking them to testify against the ex you can track down your children's emails and texts and social media posts but it's you're sort of stalking your own children in order to gather this evidence so it's it's really difficult to get what they would call in incontrovertible evidence of alienation it's extremely difficult to gather and it could be it could even be more problematic to gather you could be creating more problems you can also request an evaluation um you know a psychological evaluation a custody evaluation but those are those are pretty expensive um and most parents don't have the financial means to do that and then you you can't assure the outcome you know there's no guarantee that the evaluation is gonna is going to get you where you want to be right there they're they're expensive they're time-consuming and and oftentimes what the results are tend to be um well maybe family therapy or something like that to try to help reunify the child with um the the parent but remember that you know parental alienation isn't a crime you know something should be um right because of the the losses and the damages and and stuff that it does to the child into the to the um alienated parent but you know at the same time again for all these reasons that we're talking about it's so difficult to fight and to be sure you know all of a sudden now you're going to have people who are um now you're obviously you're going to have people who are accused and you know potentially found guilty uh yes and again thinking about what it will do to the child the child has has allied with this one parent and alienated the other parent and if it's found to be true you're going to take away the the alienating parent the parent that the child has allied with but the child is still against the other parent you know so now the child has no parents that they can really trust and really contact that's right it is a really complicated idea to to even move in that direction right if you criminalize it then what's the punishment you know you say okay you committed this crime so this is your punishment do you find them well money is already a problem in most divorces so you you don't want to levy a fine against a parent you put the child you put the parent in jail you know now you're creating even more problems so it's not a crime and i'm nobody's sure that we should criminalize it um so um what might be approaching criminal behavior is that parental alienation is viewed by some as a form of child abuse right okay but again it's very difficult to prove um [Music] it's it's not you know it's not technically a psychological disorder but is it a form of child abuse if it's determined that it's abusive behavior then it may be necessary to remove the child but again that is a that is a that is a decision that is fraught with a number of of possible problems yeah a lot of the same a lot of the same issues that we talked about before so so so when you're talking about healing from parental alienation um you know it's so again just i think this is just the phrase that we're just going to keep saying is a very challenging scenario because all of the work has been done by the by the parent who is doing the alienating you know they have they've done all of the the effort to to to remove the child from this other parent and so the only person that really has any motivation to do anything is the parent that has been alienated that's right the sad part when when you get to healing when you get to what do i do about it the sad fact here is that all the work has to be done by the alienated parent right okay they're the one that that's the parent who's experienced the loss and the grief they're the ones who you're not seeing the children you can't do anything about it and so all of the work is is done by the targeted parent the alienating parent doesn't have to do anything right and there's absolutely no incentive if you want to alienate your children you have no incentive to reconcile to fix that relationship i mean you've already accomplished your goal right yeah there's no there's no motivation for you to do anything right you can sit back no matter what anybody does no matter what the targeted parent does no matter what the targeted parent parents targeted parents family might do you know grandparents aunts uncles cousins doesn't matter what they do it doesn't matter what the court system does the alienating parent can just sit back and let everybody else do all the work right so the the best course of action for the the targeted parent for the parent that has been alienated is to is to remain calm and to try to respond without anger or without rage or or anything like that um they need to they oftentimes need to get the support of family and friends or or maybe even professionals to help them cope with the the the challenges and struggles associated with it but um but you know the the main course of action is just to to remain calm maintain compassion and kindness uh as best as possible um and then you know hope i suppose uh that the child then comes back around um but you know the the even when the child comes back around you you talked about this the other week um it's tough to rebuild um because it's going to be suspicion there's going to be um you know hesitation there's going to be a lot of you know trying to rebuild something that has been really fractured in a way that's um tough to put back together again um so it's a long haul that's right we're helping you it's really difficult and the best advice is if you're if you have been alienated um you have to seek help and support um from wherever you can get it family friends or professionals to cope with the strain there really is very little part of the part of the problem with the alienation is the feeling of impotence that the parent has you just can't do anything about it um damage has been done and it's extraordinarily difficult and the most you can do is cope with these very unfortunate circumstances there is a program for kids i don't know much about it i know that it exists it's called i don't want to choose how to middle school children can avoid choosing it's a school-based program um and there's a there's an article that we put in the show notes if you're interested in this sort of um thing either as an educator or a parent uh there's an article in the in the show notes about it um as i say it's it's it's a i'm not familiar with the program but it's it's encouraging to see that such programs exist absolutely as a final note i think that we should mention that you know for the parent who has been um been alienated the target parent uh parent i think that you know one of the things that we do in those situations is we continuously work to create a connection and reach out to the child to child or children and try to create some connection um and but there may be a time when it's important to stop doing that um because either it's going to it could potentially worsen the situation or it it's just going to keep making it difficult for the for the parent to cope with what's happening and so you know if the child becomes increasingly um hostile uh if if the child threatens a restraining order or something like that or or if the child says you know something along the lines of they just need more time and then back in touch with you and that when they're ready um you know those may be times when it's okay you know i need to step back um not stop pushing so much i'm available i'll be here if and when they need me but uh otherwise um you know i have to move forward with my life and and i have to to look what's next for me um because i can't hold on to this hope that something will happen when there's not necessarily a guarantee that it will right yeah the the targeted parent has to recognize that the chances of reconciling after a certain amount of time are pretty slim and there really is very little you can do about it so the best thing to do is to take care of yourself get the help and support that you need to make it through this set of very unfortunate circumstances absolutely all right well i think that's it for today that kind of wraps up our three-part uh series on parental alienation um we'll start on a different topic next week um but hopefully it was helpful for you guys and if you uh again want to check out the show notes there's some articles in there uh covering some of the things that we talked about in more depth um and with some more resources so great all right well that's it for today okay see you in september i'll see you then until next time stay healthy stay happy stay healthy and forget to be afraid [Music] you

Channel: The Mental Breakdown

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Id: eUjG6Otr91Y

Length: 36min 5sec (2165 seconds)

Published: Sun Aug 28 2022