overview and how to open loop terminator boost control

ok ladies and gentlemen boys and girls I figured I would do a quick old-school whiteboard style video wish I had a bigger whiteboard maybe it will people will get one we'll see how this goes so I did I've done a video on loose control like every form of it and I will link that down below if you are unfamiliar with how it works you should probably watch through that and it would explain a lot of probably what you have questions about but this one is going to be a quick refresher for the Holley Terminator setup that's primarily what everyone's asking about I'm doing a lot of stuff with it people have a bunch of questions about how does it work what do I need what do I need to do Terminator forums terminator formed the group on Facebook not that great a lot of people give out bad information I think on there so when someone asks like hey do I some of the other days like do I need a dome sensor and everyone's like yes and then you need to wire it into the map and then you need to do this and you need to use an input and then you you don't need to do any of that you don't need to do you don't need to use boost control at all quite frankly so we need to go over it depends on what you want to do and how you want to use it is how you should implement it with all things in life that you you you figure out what you want to do with it you plan and then you execute it makes it easier for everybody so anyway the CMI at the right head height here heads up close so we have two kinds of boost control we're gonna talk about today for the terminator and what i always recommend people do is they go straight to open-loop and all that means is for a closed loop or open-loop boost control it's just like closed loop or open loop fuel control or anything in the computer a lot of V of AI systems use what's called closed loop so what's happening is is you have your target and then you have your actual and then you have your ECU and then you have your change amount or percentage or closed-loop or you know although when when people talk about all my clothes look was forty percent they're most likely referencing their fuel so we'll say correction so this is what's called closed-loop so you have your target and then it looks at what your actual is and then the ECU looks at both and then your ECU makes a correction and then it goes back and looks at the target again so this can be summarized very simply you say you want a 12o AFR so you want a 1200 air/fuel you're getting a 12 v air fuel the computer knows that you're slightly rich so it takes away enough of a percentage so the ECU goes hey I'm off target by 0.5 so it makes a correction of 0.5 and then it looks again if it's 12 oh and it matches or if it goes back to 12 v and it matches the actual ECU doesn't make a correction so this is what closed-loop is so when people talk about open-loop speed density it means the stock computer usually in that they're turning off the o2 sensor loop they're turning off the o2 s and they're just running speed density map so we're gonna get back to this and we're going to talk about how the loose control works it works exactly the same way let's go over this we'll get rid of my Air Fuel numbers and what we'll type in here is say you want 10 pounds of boost and you're actually at 5 pounds of boost so the ECU says you have an error of 5 pounds so you're a five-pound deficit so it goes plus 5 and then it hits a target it's literally that simple and it's doing this many many many thousands of times a second sometimes sometimes you actually have to adjust it because it can be so crazy but that's all beside the point so the easiest way when I tell people to get boost control working for any aftermarket ECU that controls a two-wire solenoid you have say a Mack valve so what you would do is you have a Mac there's a three port and then there's a four port so the three port has the two wires so it's a box and it has two wires coming out and then it has a port here a port in the front and a port in the side that's the three ports now classically how this works is you can see this on all the diagrams on the Internet's you have your set you have here your turbo here a little spinny boy and then the boost is going into the intake and then you're seeing you know ten pounds here and then here is all here yeah I should have like got diagrams ahead of time so here is waste cake with the top port and the bottom port on the waste gate and then any pressure source is going to come through the three port usually what you do is you have your intake manifold and you're putting the pressure to the bottom and say you're getting six psi so what you do with a free port as you bring them over here and you take your intake and you go into the three port solenoid on the right this is your vent so it stays open so it can equalize pressure it can let pressure out and then the other side will go to the top of the wastegate so then you have your two wires someone is blowing me up what happens here is one of these wires is positive 12 volts the other wire is grounded pwm through the ECU that's how boosts control works so in layman's terms here what we're going to say is say you make six pounds and you tell the output of the computer to go 50 percent so this solenoid is opening a 50 percent duty cycle in a perfect world what's going to happen is it's going to take six pounds from the intake and apply roughly what three on top half of six pounds so you should get nine because there's plus three going on to the top so once you start understand how this works this is taking the pressure and allowing it to go to the top and a measured amount so when I first get a car working with boost control on the dyno to make sure everything is working I disable closed loop because that can be a complicated process teaching the computer how to adjust itself sometimes it requires fine tuning most times it requires fine tuning so what you want to do is I set it up as totally open loop through an output which I'll show you on the computer I'll show you the difference you have probably seen the other video where I go over in the details of how to hook up the closed loop to make it work correctly but there's a hole there's a tuning facet to that but I think I neglected to mention to you guys I apologize you can't just turn it on and it's great there is tuning involved there and it depends on all of these crazy things size of your engine size of your turbo waist peak placement do you have a ton of waste cake do you not have a lot of waste gate see everything is going to struggle in its own way then and then you have to adjust the settings to optimize that it can even be as something as simple as do you have the air coming from the turbo or do you have the air coming from the intake and then how large are your hoses connected to the boost controller it sounds silly but all of that stuff is affects the speed and how well it can stabilize and all sorts of other things so what I always do what you need to do is make sure this stuff works you need to say I no matter what I have solid boost that you need that you need to have a solid something to work off of otherwise you're just chasing your tail through all these settings making it harder on yourself so once you can make a reliable six pounds and you turn on an output and you can verify that through the data logs say I have twenty five percent duty cycle say my boost goes to nine pounds whoa Wow we're in a good spot now I'm saying to do something I'm getting a result and also when I raise the boost it's level also so that's the whole game plan so once you get all that working then you can go in and enable the closed-loop stuff a lot of people get confused with how the three port should work it's really it's really this simple it's just taking its this is normally shut so when you say 10% the valve pulses to let 10% of possible air flow through and then all your other results depend on like I said base spring pressure engine turbo size a back pressure how effective everything is blah blah blah blah I don't know if this is more confusing or easier for people but that's how it works the boost controller always gets twelve volts and one leg always goes to the ECU as an output the ECU is outputting a signal to the boost controller as a ground people are getting confused about input and output and input is a input like a temperature reading in a frequency in a TPS position in a boost controller is the ECU is telling something to do something it's not getting information it's saying do this so it's using an output so that's it that's basically the whole shebang so that's how you get that working I always recommend even if you download one of my tunes you should see in the output function I have one called dyno boost and that's just my sanity check we get the car on we turn off the boost controller a lot of times I put right here taking the power so I can turn the Buddhist control completely off so the Bhoots controller can try to work it won't work but it'll just run wastegate again it's a good sanity check if you have nice level boost and you don't have any mechanical issues the electronics should work well after that right so once you have a stable platform you can move up yeah again do the open loop first and then you can enable a closed loop there's also funny ways to hook up a boost controller which there's a ton of diagrams on the Internet people will show someone I jump to my desktop and show the software but you can do funny stuff like so this is always open and this is always closed you can run you know lines all over and you can do top and bottom with a three port or you can go to a four port I always like to run four ports anymore because you have a greater window scalability of boost so we can go over that also and then how for port gets hooked up is the top and the bottom and it does everything all at once but I just wanted people to understand that quick hopefully that makes some sense maybe some people are more confused but yeah anyway so we'll take that and run with it and see what you guys think of it maybe we'll do a second video if it's super confusing and then what I'll do is I'll show you on the computer what happens how to do it and go from there and then I would like to put a car on the dyno sometime that struggles with boost control and show you guys how I tuned it I go into all those PID settings and the ramp rate and I start fresh and we'll see what it does and then we will try to make it aggressively target as fast as possible without overshooting or oscillation or anything else so we'll step over to the desktop now okay so here we are at the software section like I said about open loop and closed loop boost control so we will move on from there and I did a whole video on how to make this closed loop work with the Terminator if there's some circumstantial stuff with the Terminator for whatever reason there is only dome control so you can't do the easy stuff so we're gonna bypass all that and what you do is you go to outputs so right here I make a simple one called Dino boost so this is just how you identify it and how you use it and what you look for in data logs and it has to be PWM negative so PWM ground and then in configuration what I do is I tell it to switch on see what happens here is if you miss manage your settings the boost controller will be say you set it at 50% like I said the boost controller will be vibrating at 50% all the time you key the car on her it's gonna be running what happens is it'll wear it out early and it'll be annoying sometimes and you won't know what the hell's going on so what I do is I set input triggers to run the boost control so I just say above two pounds activate this whole output and then below one pound deactivate it and then I have nothing else linked to it a timer is all turned off so what I have here is I have fixed pulse width so there's RPM and fixed and then i find with my each solenoid has like a better working frequency range but most like in between 10 and 30 hertz in my opinion a Mac so for port really likes about 18 and then I have it set up as duty cycle and I do TPS versus map and a nice thing about that is I'll explain it a bit what you can do with that so you can modulate your boost depending on a lot of things so once that's working if you say here like I have 45% here so I have data logs here when I was on the dyno the other day right here this is the wastegate hit so you can see bring her over where is all of it here we go here's all of it here is boost 6.1 pounds pretty much the whole way if you look up there six point two six point two six point two six point two six point two so all of that is working fantastic so then what I did if we look here I forgot to turn the switch on which is why so right here we look at I think I have one that says boost yeah we can actually see right here so if I take a look there is we have to edit the view quick and then on boost we have to throw Dino boost down so you want to look at Dino boost is that 15% I'm making seven pounds now seven psi seven psi seven psi so this is the stuff you want to make sure this works also I forgot this we have to go back to this when you have closed loop boost control it turns this guy on P - pulse width modulated negative ground boost + solenoid so that is because this is turned on that's it's pretty much always stuck there so what you have to do is take this guy off if you're using closed loop and it's not working that great you need to reassign Dino boost I mean that's why we named it that so it's easy to understand what it is you need to connect that to the pin the output then it all works you just have to make sure you do that I didn't want to skip over that and have people be like I did that stuff and it doesn't work once you create that output it creates a 1 to be assigned and you have to assign it to the wire the actual physical output wire so if we go back into outputs and we look at the configuration on the pulse-width side this is the percentage and then like I said I did 15% duty so this was 25% duty as you will see we will go into here when I roll in will go look at the boost part of the thing and right here you can see Dino boost is not active Dino boost is not active Dino boost is not active I tell it to activate it two pounds so at two pounds like I told it to it turns on 25% so this stops it from you know running all the time like I had said so here at 25% now I have nine pounds of boost so again this is one of those things you want to make sure that this is working correctly because that means all your mechanical things are working correctly and it's going to make your life easier later on so this whole process like I showed on the board and like I'm showing here it uses one output it's using one that's it so hopefully Holly changes their settings I think they will that you can use more of these features and just like the HP and the Dominator have a different set up or you can just you can literally choose I have a 3 port solenoid and I have totally open-loop boost control and you can just literally set up those tables it's it's the same but it's not the same so all you would do is adjust this table every time and then the neat thing here is you can do let me see you can change this say you want to do let's do TPS versus here let's change it to RPM and let's change this to TPS so say you want to do you don't want to burn an input you can't you can't afford it you're using it for something else but you want to do what's nice about the closed-loop is you can say save my car make six pounds and I want 10 on the launch and then I have this ramp for drag racing to ramp my boost in when I let off the brake all of that's nice and then you can also have safety feature in so that if it goes over a boost it can turn off the boost controller instead of doing a hard ignition cut so you have those options - all of that stuff is nice but if you can't if you don't have all that functional you can't do it and then even here I have the Scramble button assigned to the bump so after you have bumped in when you're halfway down the track you can hit bump again and it will add this four pounds on top of the target so all of that's great but if you can't use this input setup or you can't make it work correctly you're not screwed you can do fancy things with this so like I just said say you rescale this quick to 8,000 I keep missing the last zero so now we will hit fill rows quick and then this is TPS so say say my car on 45 percent here if I show you when I broke my timing chain check this out look at that broke timing chain cam sync goes nuts so right here you can see will go back to boost 45% is making 18 pounds so say this car makes 18 pounds and that's what you like and say you only want to make 10 on the launch instead of 18 well we found out through data logging that 25% made 9 and say you're on a trans brake so you can go here and you can type in 25 at 3,000 so then here at 3700 it switches over to 18 so now on the trans brake wide open throttle you should get you know 9 or 10 and then after you leave and the RPM comes up the duty cycle comes up and so does your boost hopefully if all goes well right and another really neat trick you can do here is a lot of us already understand this some of you might not a turbo car like this it's making 800 horsepower you have a street tire on it and you foot brake it and you do a burnout and it has a 4 le de and it shifts up into third gear it will absolutely annihilate tyre and you can pedal to like 40% 30 sometimes until you shut the throttle enough to slow down the incoming air to get the car back under control all motor has a lot more pedal feel you're controlling they're going in but once once one of these cars comes up on boost like clears the hump as I always say some of these things when they clear the hump they're hard to stop a lot of people crash these cars when they first get them built because though they'll get back off half throttle and the damn thing makes the same amount of power it's still totally screaming so one thing you can do to get more feel or more control if you street race or something or you have this it's a drift car you can modulate the boost based off of TPS percentage so say it's making 18 pounds let's go under 87% here let's let's go let's turn it off at 0% throttle and then we can take this whole block and we can fill it from 87% maybe you're not pinning it all the time and what happens is you can say feel selected so if you pedal the throttle down it'll lower the boost controller amount it'll effectively open the waste gate more and it'll make the car if you have a really punchy turbo car this will make the engine feel bigger or smaller you'll you'll gain more control in your throttle and you'll feel it you'll tell a difference and this stuff is built-in to the auto you know the crazy closed-loop features already but you don't have it using stuff like this but it doesn't mean you're at a deficit you can also do I think you can do boost time and other stuff so you can set up a timer and then raise the boost as you accelerate over time similar to these features but you can do it all with the outputs so hopefully this gets a lot of your brains work and there's you can do a lot of stuff with just these simple this is why Holly says like you know we don't have something specifically but we give you so much granular control over whatever you want that you can if you can think about it you can do it in most standalone systems and this is just preaching to the choir here like if you get this setup working like this you're good and you can even fade on the break here you can fade this too probably to 67% you know fill all values so yeah so now you have a very linear if you're wide open on the break its gonna run 25% probably make nine or ten pounds and then when you leave 45 make 18 now this is just my car but once you gather all your data you understand how this works very easily and then like I said using input triggers the boost controller doesn't come on until you hit 2 pounds so all your bases are covered for some really fancy stuff going on here and it's literally a simple output so I hope this helps a lot of people out hope they can you know this demystifies a lot of it it's not it's not complicated you know once you see how all this stuff works so the the whiteboard class and then the on-screen thing here you know let me know what you guys think of this if it helped out or if it made it much worse for you and we can maybe make another episode or something but I wanted to clear all this up I had a lot of questions from friends seeing a lot of questions on the group I'd keep I'm like yeah I'll make that video I'll make that and I haven't done it so I did it so hopefully it helps thank you bye

Channel: Sloppy Mechanics

Views: 16,119

Keywords: denmah, sloppy, mechanics, sloppy mechanics, boost control, terminator, terminator x, holley efi, holley terminator, how to, how to boost control, how to make boost control work, how to holley boost control

Id: Eh7E_DmqJHo

Length: 24min 58sec (1498 seconds)

Published: Fri Nov 01 2019