One-on-One with Apostle Joshua Selman

[Music] you know i like this kind of session because people learn more you know when paul said we don't just preach the gospel we also preach ourselves our servants for jesus sake so that things within our experiences with god that are also very very powerful so i just want to tell us i want you to tell us how you started how did you start i mean what year was this what were the dealings did he start in a school and what would that school be did you go to ecological seminary so let's just i mean those brief background things how the dealings of god which you started and now you were able to arrest and maximize the economy of what the lord was bringing to you you know in those days of your relative obscurity thank you very very touching please can we give it thank you okay thank you very much okay i'm wondering what to meet and what to say because it's a very it's a very pregnant question but our attempt to just touch it quickly um i believe that my my call and my operation in ministries is quite a a very unique and unconventional one i've i've always had the passion for the things of god i really have had that i had the privilege of being raised by very godly parents you know so i had that moral background right from i was in what city just yes and coincidentally my grandfather was the the first president of what we call coking church of christ in nations based yeah so um so i had i had i would say that i have a rich heritage of that background and um my encounters with god started relatively early but because i didn't have an opportunity now i'm careful these are very sensitive questions but then i didn't have the opportunity to be exposed to the ministry of the holy spirit the the cultural context as far as christianity was concerned placed emphasis on morality and all of that which was wonderful very good foundation but the opportunity for uh the ministry of the world in terms of its accuracy and the spirit was not really there so that i had that that privilege and then um i think the first i would say the first real preparation and encounter for ministry happened under the leadership of a um a dear man who was my principal in second grade yes so it had it was um the the strange thing about it was that um it was a very it was it was a very small school wow in george yes you know glad to state here it was a small school and so we were not so exposed and the man he was an anglican an anglican priest a reverend then he had spent a major part of his training time in the u.s so he came and he inculcated a lot of values you know i can begin to list so many things that he did so he created that atmosphere you can imagine being in an environment where as you are studying there is a worship song playing in the background oh exactly so yeah nigeria you can you can tell no i don't i think it was just it was just his personal passion to train outside the credit should go to him yes and and so we had that opportunity and um aside from the normal subjects that we studied i know that we studied a course called honesty morality and conscience you can imagine at that level and and then we studied spiritual growth and all of that so yes absolutely so we were taught to respect people we had we had encounters it was an environment that allowed for a lot of spiritual expression he was really a father a mentor he really built us even though he was with us for a very short time but it was it was quite a great one so i think i would say i really started from there but then i started having lots of encounters from a very very young age very young age i started having several encounters with god i started having angelic encounters now at that time because i did not have a system that would explain some of those things i thought everybody used to have those experiences you know unfortunately you know it was as though it was everybody's experience so i think that that's that's i would say those were the uh the foundational moments and it was it was quite an impact on my life uh what that man did because he really really mentored us he taught us a lot of things he created a devotional himself wow yes and so corporately in the school we studied specific books at the same time so there's no such thing as rushing ahead or behind you had to follow had to fast before the school resumed wow and then every teacher would have to pray before the lectures unfortunately all of these things that i'm telling you died after one year this is so this is the unfortunate part of it but um i hope that in the near future i would have the opportunity of god grants to build a school that resurrects that model again it's my it's my dream to be able to come up with something like that and let god grant us grace to give our children something from the heritage of that which we have so i think yes so did you did you go to a seminary it was it was the school doubled as a seminary yes uh if you have an idea let me use something in the military um you can go to nms okay while it is school university yeah so yes the goal it was a school that was founded by now arch bishop um benjamin agashi yes yes so it was it was his dream and he was a bit close to my dad and he had a personal passion that i'd become a priest you know he just felt that it was a good thing and i'm still a priest i mean thank god at least you are saying priest after the other mecca yes so i wanted to speak to you the impact of fathers and mentors of ministry of ministers yeah i know you didn't quite capture that yes in this message um one of the things people find difficult to you know align with the ministry is how with your father how do you know who is your spiritual father and what wrote the deeply and of course that of mentors too and what is the difference between a mentor and a father it's a very difficult question i wish the answer were easy it's difficult because fatherhood and mentorship is like a double-edged sword it depends on how it is held but um i do not believe that anybody can sustainably rise not just in ministry in any aspect of life if you do not have an opportunity and a platform to be guided and mentored by one who has gone ahead and has provided that the disadvantage of mentorship is that you will conform to the beliefs the mindset and also the limitation of the person ahead of you which has played it you know so there is a balance um the concept of fatherhood and mentorship it's not a concept that i've talked so much about and i have my reasons for it because um for those who are raised in the south west most of the churches there were owned do i use the word owned established by individuals so in terms of the responsibility of administration there was a single individual now the background that i came from did not allow that you understand it was an extremely conservative background so you only had access to a pastor for maybe two years at the max and he so within 10 years you would have six seven eight people so the idea was um i found it strange when i started ministry and i saw the the idea of mentorship and then fatherhood of course there are scriptures for it i'm not downplaying it but i'm saying that for someone who came from the middle belt uh or not as many people would want to see it uh it's not a concept that that is very easy with a typical middle belt and because uh the anglican context does not allow that kind of this to be a pastor's son then automatically you have the opportunity or if you are privileged to have people who are close to you but it was not a normal thing to just have people easily who can guide you it was a responsibility left to your parents and left to your seriousness if you were serious enough you would find a way to look for someone you know but then generally speaking um i believe in fatherhood i believe in mentorship the most important thing in mentorship is the ability to get the mindset and the information of the mentor the difference between fatherhood and mentorship is that in mentorship the info is your goal but in fatherhood the relationship is your goal you can be mentored by a man's book tourship and then the the the covering that comes under that and the privilege of that grace so fatherhood is is more pronounced for people who are actively in ministry as it were business people don't talk so much of fatherhood they talk of mentorship so i see fatherhood as a unique expression of mentorship that provides guidance especially for people in ministry will you meet man and say who is your father it doesn't make sense rather you say who is your mentor and that is not it may not be limited to a person there are many privileges of fatherhood the leverage that comes from their credibility and sometimes the blessings that come from that spiritual tribe you are connected to and a lot of other things the opportunity to guide to counsel at a more personal level they are not just interested in dispensing information they give you an opportunity to see their scars to learn and all of that so that is very important provided um provided the patterns are kept now i will quickly want to observe respectfully that fatherhood when not guided father who does not just mean someone ahead of you no i believe the same way you don't sit down and cross your leg and select an earthly father it is a connection that happens by grace yes most times in its original context from scripture a father is one who begot you in the gospel that means one who gave birth to you in the gospel but it's not always true pragmatically speaking because if you were born within a circle whose belief you no longer um you know or whose pattern is not similar you may have to trust god to get um you know all of that so i i also believe that there are requirements for fatherhood and people the age is not necessarily the proof of fatherhood and being a ministry ahead of someone is not necessarily a proof of fatherhood these are all that's why i said it's not a very many people have been deceived today because they had fathers and mentors many people have been blessed today because they have fathers or mentors now let me observe if you lend me one more minute on this issue i think that the fatherhood and mentorship system in africa requires respectfully speaking a total overhaul there is a very gross deviation from god's pattern the idea of fatherhood in africa and i say this i i love the body of christ my position about honor to ministers and the body of christ is one that has been established so i speak from a standpoint of love and respect but i think that the demands that that the understanding of fatherhood and mentorship in africa sometimes it means that you are in a position where you have no will of your own you are in a position where you must subscribe to the pattern that is given otherwise there is some cause or something that is waiting for you uh there are there are financial renumerations that come that you are not necessarily in control of there these are excesses and um some of those things are honestly insecurities from people that they just you know most people have been in bondage i have counseled people who because of fatherhood they can be told by father relocate to another place is an instruction some maybe leave your wife is an instruction there are people who the fathers demand details of their finance details of their private life with their maybe husband's wife details of church membership of so these are excesses and so it is not just enough to say i have a father or a father or a mentor we must probe into the purity of what is happening there with reference to scripture so this is my position it is true that young ministers must be able to trust god to connect uh but there are many people who are effective today because god delayed they are being connected to certain people had they been connected to those people earlier they would not be allowed the flexibility to obey god so it takes it takes a lot yeah and then of course um i think some of these threats that come there are people who began with individuals who helped them like fathers and mentors but eventually probably they found out that um maybe nothing wrong exactly they just found out that look i don't belong to this tribe i don't connect to this grace i know that there is a place i'm called into i expect that the fathers and mentors must sustain the flexibility the spiritual understanding and the emotional stability to allow these people to be connected to those areas usually it's very difficult i know i understand but they must be able to do that so these are some of the variations so just speaking a yes and a no answer may be destructive because while you are establishing a point you may be endorsing some somebody that needs to run for his life and also what he said is profound i mean profound profound and now the scripture we do not have many fathers yes just like we don't also have many sons [Laughter] so what what do you do now let me make a disclaimer here the disclaimer here is that we're not making this a doctrine i just want to you know ask a possible word it does privately to build capacity to beat stamina so i would like to see what is an everyday life for you what are those things that you do how how do you pray how do you study because i mean give it to you by the grace of god you have a unique insight into the word and thank you i can relate with that it takes hours of labor in the world praying everyone breaks into these things and so on every day what do you do and and what i'm saying that is that without making a doctrine out of that or trying to legislate that this is only acceptable and that's why i made that disclaimer um people can also learn from that what do you do because paul also showed timothy and titus the patterns you know i mean this is what i do this hour and do this so i want to look at spiritual capacity and stamina what are those things that you do from time to time you know that give you this edge okay um in truth there are really no secrets as it were um the the principles that govern spiritual growth and stamina uh were seen in the life of jesus and were seen in the early church primarily it is the ministry of the word and prayer that is responsible for building people it just comes in different variations but that is the basis and that from a child thou has known the holy scripture that is able to salvation so i number one i take my assignment seriously i really take it seriously i have the privilege of um i've had encounters that continue to burn in my heart the seriousness of the unique privilege that god has given me to serve this generation and i understand that many people are depending on my spiritual growth and my spiritual health so that in itself primarily i'm driven by my love for god and then i'm driven by the the awareness of the responsibility the demand that um comes with this grace and with this calling so i spent time praying i spend time studying um not just scriptures i study the body of christ it's part of the apostolic responsibility to be able to study the body of christ and to help by the spirit to define the coordinates of activities the apostolic office is not about preaching it's spiritual administration you are responsible for capturing the speakings of god as a portion to a generation within a dispensation and then to guide the coordinates of his execution so that there is no error there is no balance imbalance and to do that it will require you to have the openheartedness to look at the body of christ from a very broad spectrum not from a critical you know position so i study the body of christ i listen to messages i just try to buy into the mind of what is happening in the body of christ and then i study a lot i'm a student of knowledge i study scripture i study materials uh i build my spirit and then i spend time praying i do i do thank you sir yes sir in addition to that question that just came out of that now where in this covidae right now yes what what do you think is the message of the spirit for the church and postcode period uh postcode error what what do you think the spirit is you said you decided in passing in the message but i want you i know you're a man just like you said you have a deep uh kind of uh dealings with god yes sir with respect to some of those things what what adjustment do you want ministers to make going forward in the scheme of things and how do you see everything about church ministry playing out any days to come okay thank you very very powerful question in um truthfully speaking i believe that when you when you read mark 16 15 um it says go ye into the world so the mission is goi the location is the entire cosmos the assignment is to preach the gospel the object is creation but he never said how so the only thing that was left flexible in the great commission is the strategy um that means that men and women of god must be able to trust god for grace to by the leading of the spirit and consistent scripture reinvent themselves to be able to be applicable to living in today's world in terms of the dynamism and the flexibility that ministry requires especially ministry among young people there's a lot of rigidity and rituals that we may have to tone down that where opinions of men as it were otherwise would not be able to reach especially this generation so there will be a lot there will be need for a lot of flexibility the truth must remain uh the pillars that represent the christian faith must be on bending but there must be a lot of flexibility and then generally speaking to encourage men and women of god there are three things i want to say number one we are men it is a revelation uh i think i preached that in pastor scholars church it's a revelation that um our generation must be able to know we are men we make mistakes we are men we see things from different perspectives we are men we grow the narrative that has been given about ministry uh expects some level of perfection from ministers perfection in terms of flawlessness and that is not going to happen time is a revealer of the humanity of all men and it does not have to be something evil or immoral or these just the weaknesses of men you know i think that it is a revelation that most people preachers must have the unashamedness to let people know that look i am a man who is helped by god god does not use us because we are perfect he uses us because we are broken you see so i think it's because the days that are coming our generation no longer has the kind of sacredness and regard especially for preachers the way it used to be in the days of the fathers you know nobody would dare say certain things but now people are very vocal anybody can write a book go online say anything about anybody you know and those things will multiply in the days to come unfortunately so the earlier we let people know that look we are men we are men that are helped by god we continue to strive taking advantage of the grace of god to live lives that are worthy of emulation but then um to know that uh both the ones listening and those who are preaching so that when a man for instance falls sick you know in as much as we believe in divine health we trust god for these things but there's nothing that should be you know should bring an issue of shame sometimes the ministers may have family problems marital problems and sometimes they can be in escalated proportions it can so destroy them psychologically and take them a long time to build because members are surprised okay sometimes their children don't turn out to be the best representation of what their advocacy proposed and these are the kinds of loopholes that the devil is looking for and then he says you claim you are this you have raised people but look your child looked this i think that um um this generation must give ministers a chance that these are human beings and they can eat you will be surprised right now that if you start eating here people will hashtag and say pastor eating and it will be a shock like i mean do you eat you know sometimes people ask me those questions and i understand what they are trying to say but we must be very intentional about letting them know that look we are men i can be hungry i can eat you know jesus did not hide his humanity he was hungry he caused the fig tree he flogged people in the temple i mean this is jesus your jesus our jesus so the bible says let this mind be in you it also includes the fortitude to just admit that look where human beings and all of that so that that is my first message to men of god but to balance it up the second is we must know that there is a grace that provides for a level of excellence that is not human so in as much as we admit that we are men we must not be respectfully we live in a day and age that down place on the anointing makes it look like what is there to have revelation what is there to be anointed is it really true that people are getting healed is it really true that people are getting blessed you know sometimes and it reduces ministry to just a social welfare program so if you want to be accepted globally it is just to the degree to which you conform to a charity type work and that is profitable but we are divine people the excellency of the workings of the spirit in us and we should not be apologetic for the investment of the spirit upon our lives no matter what it is so inasmuch as we let people know that we are ethan vessels but we must finish that scripture that there is the excellency of power that is at work in us and so i want to encourage men and women of god that ordinary ministry in this day and age will only lead to frustration and anger and jealousy and all the other fruits that come with mediocrity there is space for everyone to press to a level of fire of power and grace most of the dimensions that are given to individuals is for the edification of the body and through all and meekness people can outsource these graces to improve their own lives so i think it's very important that ministers understand that there is a divine dimension to us and we must contend for it and carry out supernatural ministry then finally i want to say that um i think it's very important also for ministers to understand that the best of us is only an effective member in the body that no single individual sustains the ability to have and communicate the whole counsel of god i appreciate god for what he's done in my life and what he's doing but i am only an effective minister and i must be able to i must intentionally let the body of christ know that no matter how accurate my alignment is i do not have the whole counsel of god and i must be able to be faithful in the dimension communicated to me but as i mentor people i must be able to let them know that look you must expand your appetite to receive of other dimensions that are in christ in the body but may not be available in my life as far as dispensing that dimension is concerned i i'll say this because there is a bias and i thought that the last time during the revival series yes there is a bias that happens to men when god deals with them if god is calling me to the prophetic ministry most of my dealing will be centered around prayer discernment the ministry of the spirit warfare deliverance the curriculum of my dealing will not capture things like administration excellence networking and all of that now if i come out from that experience and god allows that bias or that limitation to make me need other members of the body so but if i mentor people from the template of my limitation just because i have results in my area you will find out that administratively the church is down in terms of leadership and excellence it is down but in the area of the court delivery of the grace you are doing well but the people you mentor may not be able to embrace the whole council of god so i must be able to say look i may not be graced in this area but this area is useful for your life so i will be faithful in communicating mine and i will applaud you when i see you open-heartedly searching out for the other dimensions that bring completion to the body now i admit we're humans we just admitted it and sometimes it is difficult especially men the male you know uh we are achievers and we like it when we receive the uploads that make you know people sometimes send me a text and say apostle you are such a great man i've never had any man like you i understand what they are trying to that revelation remains sustained in their minds because they will be very limited if the whole world has only joshua sermon three things will happen the whole world will be in great error number two the whole world will be very limited the whole world will only be effective in the area committed to me so it must start from me i must have the unashamedness to be able to salute what is happening in the body in a very vocal way like what you are doing what several men of god across the world are doing uh now i know that in terms of our personal press into god and in terms of our level of seriousness our level of alignment and our accuracy of delivery there are differences and we must admit that there are people who are serious there are people who are not serious unfortunately we can't generalize and clap for everybody there must be room to challenge ourselves but then the truth still remains that we must be able to love the growth of the body of christ so much that we are happy when they grow even when that information does not come from us you remember the scribes and the pharisees the issue was not healing the issue was who healed so they began to quarrel the person and you know i should be happy today if the healing does not come through my life or through my ministry i should love god and love him enough to say congratulations the most important thing is you are healed not to say why were you healed not through me you know that kind of thing so and it doesn't mean we are bad it just means we are human we have to train ourselves into getting to a point of stability and emotional security so that we can allow people to be blessed people have caused people for listening to messages of other people people have caused people from attending conferences of other people now of course as a leader you are responsible for the growth and the the building of the people who are under your care and you want to know that the people are feeding properly and you want to unashamedly guide their health but then sometimes those things go to the extreme and then it just becomes insecurity you so so this this would be my three the threefold encouragement to to pastors awesome awful thank you very much sir my pleasure this is also a great password you are still single yes [Laughter] how do you handle these your sisters and that is also a lesson for your ministers in the sense that i may see how god has helped you and i can relate with that because i also know one or two people who had a similar deal with god and by the grace of god rose into the purpose of god for their lives before the marriage so for your ministers and for yourself someone like you how do you balance that side i mean to focused or a single and how do you deal with sisters okay i appreciate um i think the issue of ladies and sisters and so it's not limited to whether you are married or not is only minimized when you are married that's what i believe anybody who will be very honest you know um so um [Music] i think the key is values and principles yes the key is to be able to put values because i would submit to you that many people who may have problems with sisters the ladies don't intentionally come to cause trouble they are just being ladies and ladies will generally want a shoulder with all due respect to all the ladies following and the ladies around you understand i'm not sure i'm not sure that there are few ladies and and and i think let's all know what the holy ghost is doing in the body i don't there are a few ladies that will actually get up intentionally to say i want to destroy there are people like that but i think what happens is that the devil takes advantage of the vulnerability and the compassion of both the leader and the people involved because once you are emotionally connected to people for instance you have a sister or something in the church or the fellowship and you know about their background you know about what they've gone through you understand the peculiarity of their dealing and they've been open to you on that wise naturally you will be soft-hearted towards those people and even when they misbehave from the lens of what you know about them you will express a lot of compassion now that compassion can become dangerous that is why you must balance it with values values like um visitations counseling you know ladies you don't just invite sisters to say come to my house come and help me cook rice cook beans it may not be seen but you are near sodom the bible says when when when when um what's his name when lot when lord left abraham he didn't go into sodom he stayed near sodom by the time abraham would come to rescue lot he was in the middle of sodom so sometimes sometimes it's important to to just have standards and values i believe that when you have values and you are strict on it even though many people may misunderstand you but eventually you will get and is more dangerous today because of the presence of social media you know um there are all kinds of platforms that create connections and all of that and the devil is really out to see how he can discredit ministers and bring you know people down through this avenue so i think the key is to set very strict values for instance let me give maybe three or four generally you can have a standard like okay you will not counsel a single sister alone for instance or in the night these are very good principles and and now i want to say something respectfully and i don't mean to to hurt the body or something i think there is a bit of balance that we need to put or addition to what we know to be the communication of the grace of god because i think that if not checked a bit that may be an area that the devil may take advantage of if the concept of the grace of god is not properly understood it can become a license for licentiousness you understand what i'm trying to say yes i don't mean to yes you know that sense of god does not condemn people but the consciousness of right and wrong is important we have traffic lights even though we are intelligent people the traffic lights help to bring coordination so those kinds of things because sometimes for as little as what i've said is for many people they can feel what is the meaning of that you know there is a grace of god that grants you grace to say no to this but pragmatically speaking you are also a psychological being and biology and psychological and psychology plays its role in our lives so sometimes creating some of these standards will help us um if if you are living with a lady for instance that you are not married with you don't have to do anything wrong for it to destroy you the psychological torture of the imagery you are giving room to will frustrate your prayer life will frustrate your concentration will frustrate a lot of things and then it will it will give room for so many things so this generally my encouragement for people especially with young ministers and then most especially people who are single uh are not married yet i think that that the encouragement will be create standards trust god for grace it's easier said than done in all fairness but i think it's good to create standards and then number two be visionary in the bible vision helps people to stay on course lack of vision is what sponsors distraction there is a way you can be so visionary you look at your watch it's eight o'clock in the morning next time you check it is 10 p.m because you are so engaged you have summons to prepare you have several things to do when you are excessively idle you have to pick your phone from checking a salmon you go to a video you should not go to you see that from there before you know it until you are in sodom so these are some of the things we're talking about i think the key standards and then number two build a community of like-minded people having a kingdom community is the key to sustaining kingdom values um walking in isolation is very dangerous a community life creates a healthy system of check and balance you see so so that's so that that that is very and then number three practice periodic retreats wow i i i am shocked in all honesty at the fact that people can be busy in ministry for a very long time and not have i'm not talking of the usual weekly retreat or these just two hours where most of it you are sleeping i mean a serious heartfelt retreat from the depth of your heart where you stay with god and when you are with god don't tell lies don't go to god as a man of god you go to god sincerely now it's easy for you to clap for me as joshua sermon and so he's only god that knows the truth about me so when i go to god the one who i cannot hide i say okay god please deal with me and god can say okay be careful lust is growing in your heart here pride is growing in your heart here maybe um pressures are mounting on you and maybe your prayer life is not as effective as that and i say okay god thank you so apply the case for the next level the the key to being sustained the ministry is to be truthful to yourself very truthful to yourself and when you go before god you are honest if you go to god as emoji you go to god as a colleague ministry very soon things will go bad you must when i go to god i go with an open heart and i go very sincerely such my heart truthfully oh god and anything god tells me whether i have proof for it or not i believe it if i go before god now and god says you are numb rob i believe him i will not say whose money did i steal i will start rolling on the ground and say show me mercy before i disappoint myself because you know god does not have future everything is israel is now so when god speaks some of what he's saying will not be in your now what is a possibility that is enshrined in you like a dna so you kill it before it destroys you in the future the key is honesty that transparency i think we need to be more transparent human beings don't have that fortitude to show us mercy so we must go to the one who is able to take us just as we earn builders so that would be my thank you very much i just have two more questions so i can wrap this up um this is also a bit uh also controversial okay um but i just wanted to share like to use this opportunity so in the last uh two three weeks there was one of your videos making around i know possibly you've heard about it you know we have some boys on the on the social media which was their stalking traders to attack ministers you were talking about the spiritual impact of lagos and abeokuta and you said if god is going to do something significant to the lives of people i don't know how you actually put it so i understand it must so some people start fighting that so i just want you to lay that to rest once and for all because i i also saw just like you said i observe what is going on in the body i saw that some of um you know supporters some of the people also were confused because i saw the reactions and the counter reactions and and i just i mean see this as an opportunity to just clarify them okay so what exactly are you trying to communicate we have that and we just laid to rest it's important unfortunately i'm not on social media that's that's why most of all these things happen but two things number one you see um it is not it is not necessarily the correctness or the wrongness of what i've said that is the issue it is the fact that when you seek for truth with an open heart you will find it if you don't find it with me you will still find it in the body so this is what i'm saying let's assume that i'm totally wrong and everything i've said is nonsense no problem does that really become a basis for you to be in error there are many more accurate voices than me in the body and if your goal is really growth the holy spirit is more loving he's too loving to allow one man's arrow destroy so many people so you have to prove the motive behind those things we are men and so um before addressing it no matter how wrong let's assume that it's even the whole sermon that is nonsense if i die today joshua salman or if all my messages are edited completely from the internet is just the unique expression of the grace of god upon my life that will be missed spiritual growth will continue so i don't think i should be such a big deal thank god for the influence that i have but the when people begin to attack a man of god uh for instance in a way and calling out maybe sentences phrases and all of that no the holy spirit is speaking through a vessel i'm saying in an instance because even if this is wrong this would not be the last wrong thing i would say that is the honest truth you get the point now doctors people die from the hands of doctors every day and we go to the hospital and call them doctors we call them professors we give them awards they receive nobel prizes i mean be fair on men of god now where there is a problem is where when the man of god stands as an absolute authority and now says what i'm saying is absolute don't listen to anybody again now that's that's a problem anybody who knows me from the inception of ministry i have always been opened and truthful to tell people look i am only an effective member of the body of christ number two i am also a student in the school of the spirit and when i communicate my dealings i communicate them based on several things now correcting let me use the opportunity to say this and then i'll now address the issue correcting the body of christ is an office just because you observe error or imbalance or mistake does not give you the credence because this is a mistake all around pool peace are full of everybody trying to correct everybody no correcting the body of christ is an office and the first requirement of that office is love wow not power not revelation you see that our children will edit what we are calling rhema today the same way we are editing the revelation of the fathers as at the time they received respectfully speaking fathers like papa hagin when they wrote what they wrote you know i remember papa hagin saying something like um the anointing of the spirit only flows through a cloth or material i remember years ago when i was in ministry i asked somebody to go and stand at the end of the wall and i touched the wall from here and they went to carry him on the ground and i said the wall is not a piece of paper i was just trying to show the excellency now if i attack papa hagin i'm stupid because i'm growing and our children will edit what we now see it says this present truth so i don't know who the gentlemen are who edited that but the first thing i want to tell them is i love you i do not believe whoever you are the pastor or the media people i don't believe that you are intentionally trying to maybe challenge me or this i love you with all my heart and i know that you are probably doing your best that you know to be a contribution to the body of christ and i salute you for the courage to even be able to come there that's number one i i also salute you for the opportunity to be able to detect what you think is an area of controversy my only observation may be that next time is wiser and better to make effort to reach the man of god to try to say okay sir you preach this and while listening to you i made an observation would you want to shed light if the man demonstrates rebellion and demonstrates hard-heartedness then it now qualifies you to say okay look i think this is rebellion because the the person whoever is saying that does not have both the moral and the spiritual credence to to vet all of that without humility most likely someone else who loves me will challenge you and say where are your results and you see it's not whether you are for me or against me no being for me and attacking the man does not profit me it will still hurt the body generally so we must love the growth of the body more than our reputation i don't have a problem being criticized i don't have a problem looking controversial no no no no i'm a man if i die you only cry for seven days try to raise me back to life eventually you throw me and life continues so i think that we will there are many messages from the most accurate of any man there are messages that you may pick certain things that you feel based on the mentorship you have received or based on your doctrinal standpoint it is an error i think it's wise and better that when you do want to administer those things it must be very vocal that the love of god is seen in you and you must also be sure that what you are saying is not something you will regret tomorrow because we see in part so in a bit to correct somebody do not get into error yourself but as party you know is the cross of the apostolic ministry i mean it will be very challenging for a man of god who has a measure of influence to be surprised when you're you know you're speaking i'm sorry about what is your people wonder also why i entertain things on my social media andrews yes you know i preach i say it and people come and you see me having conversation with them you know all i just say is that don't use root language don't be abusive let's discuss well most times you see pastor most times the people who try to challenge different men of god the truth of the matter is that um for most of them i think it's just the frustration that comes with not getting sufficient results in all honesty and when that frustration becomes outspoken they secretly seek for a chance to find something that becomes a you know an anchor to authorize and they will find it you see there is a difference between coming from a standpoint of love you see that and coming from a standpoint where you are trying to show that oh you are clapping for this man let me tell you he's not worth that club because of this so there are many ways to correct the goal is to try to tell a generation you are hyping this honor too much so you would die which is unnecessary because honor is a grace there's a difference between honor and respect you see you can respect yourself but you can't honor yourself honor is conferred upon you by an authority higher than you you see so um these are some of the things but but for the thing i said i remember the statement that he said i made in a pastor sir uh church i would not want to mention his name he's a man of respect dearly so we're talking on doors and so i was speaking about portals and the prophetic implication of portals and i was saying that there are certain territories the way we have mineral resources there are certain territories that when god wants to announce you he will cause your feet to make contact with those territories you see that now i didn't teach it as a doctrine if i did not teach a thing as a doctrine paul would say i say this as a man you are subject to your interpretation of it and everything i said in that sermon is not wrong so if you think this is wrong or your revelation is higher than what i've said just jump it and be edified by the remaining things that are there you know and and if you have to edit the video maybe for your consumption my videos are free online you can edit that part as far as your consumption i i think is too small it was a statement that was not more than uh you know or all for all the people let me say this for all the people who love me and may try to attack that person leave our apostles no no please don't be hard on them give people a chance to be wrong too he's wrong he's wrong so if if i am wrong and he corrects me the wrong way let us show the excellency of what the love of christ can do so at first i salute his courage to make the observation whatever observation and second i pray for him that he will not reap the harvest the way he has sown the seed it's not it's not even just one person that's what i'm saying it doesn't matter of course only god knows the number of uh it's not these things you see the sacrifice of the father should teach us lessons there is a level of success you cannot get to and have everybody clap for you and it is important it's not it's not it is important that that variety of observation is there so you cannot you cannot only love people who agree with you no people have a right to disagree and it helps people to grow because when people see where they disagree with you or your revelation it gives them room to go and study and it helps the people you are leading to be bereans themselves you see so probably that uh whatever it is now may have made somebody who listens to me and loves me so much to say look let me now settle down and listen if i make a mistake or i say something wrong to the body of christ believe me but i'm not too proud and arrogant to say body of christ this is how i saw it yesterday now i've seen clara i'm sorry and all of that no there's nothing to be ashamed of we're advocating a dimension of god that is very real we're not acting you see that um so that was what i was trying to say that spoke about abeokuta and peace and i still i still believe that that conviction is largely true uh it it never comes above the authority of script but i am telling you from a prophetic standpoint that some of those truths hold but at the same time i respect the revelation of everyone you know i don't know what god has shown them and maybe i will learn from them tomorrow i'm sure i would like to listen to the message of the people who did that pose to hear what god has shown them i'm elena and i'm a student i'm sure that uh tomorrow i'll hear what god has said and i will be more than grateful to tell them thank you and i'm not just saying it in a sarcastic way i'm saying it sincerely if i study their message today and i find out that god has shown them a dimension higher than what he has shown now with all humility i will receive it i will adjust and i will thank them you see all the people who are under my spiritual influence would have been blessed by them the only challenge and this is the mess a message to the body of christ do not find joy in bringing others down to show you are up you see wow it does not it does it will make people hate you because it will end up creating controversy the people that like that man of god or that woman of god will end up attacking you in honor of the person they love so it becomes like for up for paul and for apollos if the whole world stands against me to throw those people now and criticize them the body of christ has not profited so i must love the body more than mission and my ego this is a dimension of fatherhood and leadership while introducing by god's grace to the body that we must love the body more than our reputation i'm a human being i can make mistakes you see that i can i can preach something that based on the light i saw at the time i preached i probably didn't get it right no problem the most important thing is that we must approach ministry as to when they are sincerity to have the fortitude to come and preach and then say well i appreciate what you have seen but i think there is a higher light like this so submit to it yeah rather than than coming online and criticizing why don't you do a little podcast a video of the say okay apostle or any man of god for that matter this is what you said and i don't agree with this and since i don't agree with this this is what i think is the correct position let me do a little bible study for you ten minutes send it to your media team and say let this be a gift to apostle with love from me a fellow a person a fellow apostle or prophet in the body of christ believe me if i receive that kind of video and i listen to it it will take me back to my bible and i look and i see that wow okay it's true what this guy said i didn't see the light i will first call him and i'm the kind of person who can acknowledge them publicly i'm not ashamed to do that i will say look pastor so or prophet saw or apostle this or whoever it is thank you very much for contributing to my spiritual growth and thank you for helping me align in a greater sense of accuracy so that now i can teach the people you understand so i think that that's how we should approach it in the body not to attack and do it doesn't you have nailed it thank you and i'm so happy of course we've never talked about this and we just said exactly what we do that's that's how we approach the matter yes we don't and that's why you know some of the people that looked at but i give them the opportunity of listening to them a lot of them are friends now oh yes you have to even go ahead and be on facebook to say this is my phone number call me let's have me bring this perspective and you bring your perspective because what i found out over the years is that people don't listen to the one message they just take one minute out that's right other times if you don't listen to the flow and you just take that one minute out you take it out of context that's true and you begin to you see some of the people that promote some of these things don't share the entire message they just take a clip out and allow is wrong here how can he say this how can he say that and i begin to fight it let's learn from what he just said now and i'm thinking yes let me just say this just a minute also on that that is that some of these people that look like enemies or look like controversial people there is just their approach that may be wrong some of them may be very well intentioned people in fact you should give them and believe that they will intentionally get up but of course you you cannot rule out the fact that there may be few women but i want to give the benefit of doubt we are believers and a believer is not just one who has faith in god a believer is one who walks by love by this shall all men know that you are my disciples not when you preach well and so on and so forth so i think that there is no problem with that um i will want to encourage those people let me say this when you feel that my message or any man of god's message that you respect there are perspectives in it that you don't agree with that's all right don't think it is a shock it is not a spirit talking is a man who is talking as inspired by the spirit we see in part we can make mistakes or you can be the one making mistakes you know and all of that so in any case the key is to sustain the love in fact i would recommend this if you think a man of god has made a mistake that you think can be misleading to the body of christ don't come on social media to attack the person rather this is my proposition take it as joshua sermon's proposition make a video of what you think is correct and send it to him or do a bible study a little pdf of a bible study a correct exegesis of the truth and then i want to encourage men and women of god when people challenge you sometimes they may challenge you in a harsh way they may go on to say a lot of other things that have no business to you know they can challenge you and attack you and now start attacking your church attack your members be calm don't fight back and encourage those who love you too to not fight back in it you know some of those things may not help but i think he's wise do a little bible study and you can say something like okay man of god i appreciate you for the teaching i listened to this teaching or that one i appreciate you however you said abc and i think based on my level of growth i think that i have my reservations don't say you are wrong you are misleading the body of christ this error is bad by what standard do you think you are right you see that now so so that that's my encouragement in fact the person yeah i applaud you thank you you have just prescribed the remedy and let him the heart here hear what his prayer is saying to the churches final question sir yes let me thank you again because i i i i'm not sure whether you have done this before putting your not seat and asking all these questions and um what would you be advised for uh startups and ministry those who are just about to start that what kind of uh things should they be doing and um let me also say this offering also we can finish this today so in front of the whole body of christ we are requesting i will do this again as you are led by the sweden as us i don't like you said it can be one of them yes but we also understand the uniqueness of other things god is doing with you so those who are starting out uh what what should they do what should be the emphasis especially those who are just about to start out okay or those who are just recently okay we're starting their work okay thank you very much sir thank you so much and let me just i'm still out this time to really honor and appreciate you thank you so much i do not take for granted this opportunity two things um for those i expect for everyone who wants to start ministry i expect that he should currently be connected to a body of believers of some sort maybe a pastor in a church and all of that the first thing is do not start ministry just because you think you observe something in the current church you are in that needs to be corrected wow it is it is a dangerous motivation it will look inspiring at that point but you'll be frustrated eventually let me say it again that means that let's assume unfortunately but let's assume the gentleman who said those things about me was a member of my church or my ministry just because you detect error imbalance and a number of faulty things in a church you shouldn't just in anger say look i don't pray this way i don't sing this way i don't preach this way god is no more here you hear people say that and i think i need to live and go and create somewhere where god is now you will succeed for a while but it's like you are drinking poison and expecting someone else to die you see that so the motif and the motivation must be serious and truthful i will tell you that a number of ministries don't start necessarily because the call or the timing was right they are angry at something or someone who did something within the ministry some of them may say i was not giving enough platform to preach some of them may say i was maybe they are downplaying and and they may be right sincerely speaking in in in some cases but whatever the issue is um leaving a ministry with a um a narrative as though god is not here this i think you people are not accurate i've seen more i've seen father is a dangerous seed you are sowing because the harvest is always greater than the seed so that's dangerous so i will tell ministers who want to start up be sure that you are starting ministry because there is a real mandate upon your life and there is a message you have a message that is independent of what is right or wrong in your current ministry you see your message cannot be to correct what your pastor said that is wrong that's not a mandate that is long enough for ministry that's number one number two is that um you must ensure that where you are under an authority now let me say this pastors and ministers prophets and leaders are human beings just because they are anointed of god they have emotions it is unfair to tear down a man's ministry paint the man bad you see that try to you know many pastors around the world and and personally i'm sure that you may many people may have spoken to you on this and let it be an encouragement lovingly speaking to the body of christ many people are bleeding today in ministry because those who left their ministry the way they left it was not a good model you see some of them stole things and left some of them um carried out luciferian attitudes they go around carrying about a third of the people indoctrinating the people painting the pastor maybe his wife maybe the church leaders painting them bad painting them black and then you know contrasting all of that and it doesn't matter whether they are right or wrong when you want to leave a ministry there are ethics number one understand that it took a long time to build that number two understand that there are innocent people in the ministry who are at a level of spiritual infancy you must love their growth more than your reputation wow don't be like the samaritan who left somebody the priest who left the samaritan dying to go and preach he was on his way to go for a program and he saw a samaritan dying and he left that person there to go and do ministry you want to go and do ministry and you don't kill somebody else before you are going and then number three let me tell you this no matter what it is how right or wrong a man of god is when that man of god has invested in your life and invested in your growth and put himself on herself honor the history even if you don't honor the future wow all know the fact that that man or that woman of god brought their lives their time their investment into you and to do that don't destroy uh excuse me the ministry or the platform don't do that when you do that you will not succeed yourself you you see that now so i think this is the template many people have when they are passionate about going to start ministry or start whatever the narrative they tear down this church in this church they do abc some come up with all kinds of visions god showed me my pastor is going to hell fire my you know god showed me that he left this church years ago don't say that no it's wrong don't it's like you are trying to be tall by cutting the head of everybody he's wrong so i think that the the that's the second thing i would tell ministers give enough time especially if you play um key roles in that ministry you see that it is wise to give enough time so that the church can make adjustments you see i think it's i think it's unfair to just wake up and then maybe you are the one who conducts services and then all of a sudden the person is not there again or the prophet or whoever is not there again at the accountant is not there again and then you say i've gone please it's not a good thing you will so where where um what you reap what you i mean you will reap what you sow i meant to say you see so that that's a very important thing um many pastors are bleeding terribly because of the way people left and the trouble is that those people will go and find because these are spiritual patterns and then they will mentor other people too in light of their mistakes and all the things they are doing so i think it's a correction for the body of christ and then i want to also talk to fathers and mentors and leaders the truth is that there are people who are in your church and with you for seasons and the truth is that we must i know it's not easy we're human beings and if you have your way you want everybody to stay with you forever but the kingdom will not advance that way there are times when the the people would have exhausted their stay and the pastors and the leaders the prophets apostles must sustain the the emotional flexibility this is not even about spirituality the the psychological strength to say look i know that your time is over here and all of that i bless you and release you because there have been instances where people sincerely want to go and they follow the most respectful way and in anger some of the pastors they they may laugh with them in the open but they will cause them in the secret say all kinds of things and look forward to their downfall and if and when they fall they will now say you see i said it i think we must love god's agenda more than ourselves and all of that so as themselves must be careful so that they do not unnecessarily antagonize people because of the call of god upon their life i think i think that is a fair balance and then the third thing is um the truth is that ministry is not something to do in a hurry just because you think you are prepared does not mean you are prepared you see the each to want to start ministry for many people is just the instinct for leadership that is not coordinated properly that each to want to be the the superintendent or that each and and sometimes i will say this respectfully um sometimes we have to be careful that's why a minister must be careful if you're married may god bless you but those who are not married you have to be careful the kind of person you bring into your life because sometimes marriage can affect some of these things you you marry somebody that is so obsessed for power and it happens both ways well for the man and woman depending on who the anointing is upon and they can push themselves into this obsession i think we can have our own thing and the man or the woman as the case may be may move in honor of their spouses and get into trouble sometimes it happens it is rare but then it does happen and so i think that that is something that is very very important to watch against those two but um even when you you think you are ready to start up i will tell people don't start by opening a church to just put on bills and say yes i have a new ministry the name of my ministry is abc assembly or abc um cathedral come sunday service will open from next week that's not how ministry starts every ministry starts as a house of prayer it's in the bible it is the pattern so you start by investing in prayer investing in prayer will ward off the forces of darkness take charge of the spiritual climate and prayer begins to bring the people who are connected to your grace who will now become leaders eventually the first set of people who come to your ministry are not workers they are leaders they may not come as leaders they will come like those who came to david in the cave of abdullah weak in debt dejected so it is now your assignment to discern and start to build them but i would tell this finally it is important to prepare for ministry anybody who is really ministry knows that it takes the grace of god otherwise one day you will even collapse yourself you know and and all of that so that would be my encouragement wow wow wow thank you very much

Channel: Victor Omebije

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Length: 74min 27sec (4467 seconds)

Published: Sun Jul 19 2020