DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you recall having any conversation
about killing Nicole, even if you didn't
mean it seriously? None, absolutely none, ever. NARRATOR: OJ Simpson, forced
to testify for the first time about his role in a
brutal double murder by the grief stricken father
of one of the victims. Ron and Nicole were
butchered by their client. Do any of you believe otherwise? NARRATOR: Simpson is grilled-- DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
If she fell when she was outside it's because you
made her fall, right? No. NARRATOR: --in Fred Goldman's
relentless quest to find justice for his son, Ron-- We've waited a long time
to have an opportunity to ask the hard questions. NARRATOR: --this time,
in a civil trial. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you ever strike her? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you ever hurt her? Yes. NARRATOR: The odds were
against Fred Goldman. We already knew the
power of OJ Simpson. He had unlimited
resources, fame, fortune, people who adored him. NARRATOR: Simpson had
already beat the murder rap in criminal court,
giving his civil lawyers a roadmap to victory. The Goldman family,
they weren't rich people. Fred had a real job. NARRATOR: And the attorney
chosen by the Goldman family to bring Simpson down
had no experience in pursuing this kind of case. I had never handled
a wrongful death case. In fact, I had never litigated
a personal injury case. I was a business
litigation lawyer. I don't think we had any
comprehension of what was going to be involved. There was a
mountain of evidence that showed Mr. Simpson's guilt.
And you all know as well as I what that evidence is. NARRATOR: The deposition
tapes of OJ Simpson testifying will be broadcast at length. And viewers will be able to
hear Simpson try to account for his actions when challenged
directly by the lawyers bringing the civil suit. He would lie about
every important fact. NARRATOR: A new trial-- Good luck, man, best of luck. NARRATOR: --a new attorney-- I said, you just
put your fists up, is that what you did that night? NARRATOR: --and
damning new evidence. It was proof that he
had the shoes on his feet, that he owned them. I would have never won
those ugly ass shoes. MICHELLE CARUSO: Even with the
evidence being as good as most murder cases could
ever hope for, no one knew if it
would be enough. [music playing] OFFICER (ON VIDEO): Would you
raise your right hand, please? You do solemnly swear that
the testimony you shall give in this deposition will be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God. I do. OFFICER (ON VIDEO): Thank you. DANIEL PETROCELLI: Good
morning, Mr. Simpson. Good morning. DANIEL PETROCELLI: My
name is Daniel Petrocelli. I represent the plaintiff,
Frederick Goldman, in this lawsuit against you. We wanted some justice. And we wanted that
to come from a court. And it didn't come from
the criminal trial. Ron got zero justice. I will forever be proud
of my son and my family. Thank you. And when we discovered that
there was another avenue, a civil trial, we thought
of that as the only way we're going to ever have
a chance at justice. DANIEL PETROCELLI:
Can you tell me what you told Vannatter
and Lange where you were between 10:00 and 11:00? Whatever they asked
me, I told them. Whatever they asked
me, I told them. I recall that, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI:
What I want to know is what answers you gave. To what? Ask me the question
like they asked me, and I'll give you an answer. DANIEL PETROCELLI: Where you
have between 10:00 and 11:00? I don't know if they
asked me that question. I was home. OK, if they did ask
you, what did you say? I don't recall
if they asked me, so I don't know what I said. Why don't you ask me? DANIEL PETROCELLI: I just did. Where were you-- Why don't you ask me? [music playing] All right, Mrs.
Robertson, do you have the envelope with the
sealed breakdowns, please? Yes, Your Honor. JUDGE LANCE ITO: All
right, would you give those to Deputy [inaudible]? I was convinced
beyond any doubt that he was going
to be found guilty. JUDGE LANCE ITO: All
right, Madam foreperson, you've had the opportunity
to review the verdict forms. FRED GOLDMAN
(VOICEOVER): Every piece of evidence pointed to one
person and one person only. FOREPERSON: We, the jury, in
the above entitled action, find the defendant, Orenthal
James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder. When it ended the
way that it did, it felt like a slap in the face
because the halls of justice, that's where you get justice,
that's where everything balances out. FOREPERSON: --in violation
of Penal Code section 187A, a felony upon
Ronald Lyle Goldman, a human being as charged in
count two of the information. FRED GOLDMAN
(VOICEOVER): For us, it was the smack across the
face and head of finding out that Ron just got nothing, just
received no justice at all. Two lives were gone,
one nearly decapitated, my son stabbed 33 times. That meant nothing. It was theatrics at its finest. And a murderer walked free. MICHELLE CARUSO: When
they panned to the family, Kim was sobbing. It was like being stabbed
in the heart with a knife to see it and know, for us, it
was a bad verdict, for them, the person who killed
their loved one was going to walk out and throw a party. Last, um, June 13, '94, was
the worst nightmare of my life. This is the second. [chatter] MAN: The [inaudible]
criminal courts building for the
prosecution, whose conference is about to begin. NARRATOR: For the Goldmans,
it seems any hope for justice is gone. They had taken on a
media Goliath, and lost. FRED GOLDMAN: When we discovered
that there was another avenue, a civil trial, I don't think we
had any comprehension of what was going to be involved,
what it was going to take, how it was going to happen. It was just something that
we learned about and said, this is a second
chance at justice. No one had really heard
of civil cases back then. It didn't feel right
because we were suing and the only
punishment was money, so it was very
confusing, just kind of the internal
debate of whether or not we wanted to do that. MANNY MEDRANO: In
a legal system, there's two ways to
proceed in a case. If you're charged
criminally, you're in the criminal justice
system and 12 jurors have to unanimously agree-- 12 to zero-- beyond
a reasonable doubt that I committed the crime. Starkly different
in a civil case, you get 12 jurors in the
box, but you only need nine to rule in your favor. And it's a lesser
standard, what's called a preponderance
of the evidence, just a little past 50%. If the jury finds that,
they can find liability. NARRATOR: Many in Los Angeles
are outraged over a system, they believe, can't
deliver justice. Paul Marziano, the founder of
the Los Angeles based clothing manufacturer, Guess
Incorporated, is among them. I followed the case. I followed the fact. I followed evidence,
blah, blah, blah. And the verdict
come, and it's like-- that case was about the
incompetence, the incompetence of the district
attorney's office. NARRATOR: To pursue
a civil case, the Goldmans will
need an attorney. Marziano believes his lawyer
is perfect for the job. His name, Daniel Petrocelli. And I said, Dan, this
thing that happen in our city is crazy. This is wrong. And he said, Dan, you
must take this case. I said, what are
you talking about? He goes, you must
take this case, the country needs
someone like you. They need to have this
verdict turned around. And I said, I would
like you to do that case. And he said, I've never done
one criminal case in my life. DANIEL PETROCELLI: I don't
do those kinds of cases. I've never handled
a criminal case. In fact, I had never litigated
a personal injury case. I was a business
litigation lawyer. I said, you have to
do it, not for you, for everybody in this city. A lot of people cannot
understand or comprehend what's happened. At least that someone will
bring a sense of justice here. DANIEL PETROCELLI:
I was quite sure that what I was going to do was
explain to Fred why I really couldn't take his case. But when I opened
the door, there was like a transformation
that took place. He was almost like a
television character to me, up to that
point in time, someone I had seen on television. Ron and Nicole were
butchered by their client. Do any of you believe otherwise? But when I saw him in
person for the first time, the reality set in. And I could see the loss and the
pain etched all over his face. And when he ushered me
into the living room, furniture was in different
places, pushed to the side. And it was dark. And there was this very deep,
thick sadness that immediately enveloped you. It had the smell of death. KIM GOLDMAN: We sat with him and
we had our list of questions. And we interviewed him. And something just clicked. It was just-- it
sounds kind of hokey, but it was kind of kismet. FRED GOLDMAN: Dan
made a comment to us that if we chose him
to be the attorney, he would want us to be involved. And we kind of all
chuckled, you know, because there was not
a chance in living hell that, um, we weren't
going to be involved. And we talked and we
talked and we talked. As we spoke through the
wee hours of the morning, the reality of his
loss became real to me. It was raw. It couldn't help but affect you. And you know, as a lawyer, I've
been representing companies and wealthy individuals, and
here was a chance to represent a father fighting for his son. Before I knew it was 2 or
3 o'clock in the morning. And by then I knew I
was going to do this. REPORTER: Are you good? I'm good. NARRATOR: Petrocelli warns the
Goldmans their case will not be easy. But in a civil case, they
will have some advantages. DANIEL PETROCELLI:
In the criminal case, Simpson had the Fifth
Amendment right not to testify. In the civil case,
I explained to Fred, he would have no such choice. If he refuses to testify,
he will lose the case by default. In fact, he would
be required to testify long before the trial in a
pre-trial deposition. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you ever strike her? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Did you ever hit her? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you ever physically hurt her?
- Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you ever bruise her? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Did you cause bruises on her body
through acts of violence by you towards her? I believe the bruises
that were on her body, I was responsible for. If she got them from me
being physical with her or if she got them when she
fell when she was outside, I was responsible for it. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
If she fell when she was outside it's because you
made her fall, right? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Because you were hitting her, right?
- No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
You were pounding her? No, that's incorrect. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): You made her face black and blue, didn't you? If her face was black and blue
the next day, about two days later, I was responsible for it. No matter how it
happened that day, I was the person responsible. [music playing] REPORTER 1: KFWB
news, time 4:28. Well, the father of the late
Ron Goldman, Fred Goldman, announces a new attorney to take
on OJ Simpson in civil court. REPORTER 2: The Goldman
family hires a business-- REPORTER 1: The
attorney, Dan Petrocelli, says he hopes to depose OJ
Simpson for the civil action suit. NARRATOR: In October 1995,
news that the family of murder victim, Ron Goldman, hired
little known civil litigator, Dan Petrocelli, to represent
them in a wrongful death lawsuit against OJ Simpson,
spread like wildfire. The next day, I
checked my voicemails. And on a typical day,
I might have, you know, two or three voicemails. And I had 25 or 30 voicemails. And they were all from members
of the media, all asking, you know, for interviews. I was terrified
listening to this, like what have I
gotten myself into? I had never spoken
to a reporter before. I remember walking to
this bank of microphones, and seeing this
sea of reporters. And I had this complete
out of body experience, like what am I doing here? This is like a scene in a movie. I had a full scale
anxiety attack. I felt myself choking. I couldn't swallow. I just wanted to get
through this alive. We think that when
all is said and done, we will find a jury to
conclude that Mr. Simpson was the man responsible for
the death of Ron Goldman. We already knew the
power of OJ Simpson's money and his team. We knew that he could get
any expert, any attorney-- he could have 10 attorneys
if he wanted to-- investigators, he had
unlimited resources, fame, fortune,
people who adored him despite a mountain
of evidence showing that he was a double murderer. And here was the Goldman
family, sad, broken. They weren't rich people. Fred had a real job. They didn't have tons of money. They couldn't just
reach out and say, we want the biggest team
of civil litigators. They weren't in that position. They were just heartbroken
people who had been terribly wronged by the criminal
justice system, and they had one
last chance to try to get some kind of justice. To my surprise, my colleagues
and my partners at the law firm were immediately supportive
that we would take this case on, and we would not
charge Mr. Goldman, and that we would do
it as a public service. NARRATOR: Pursuing the
case could potentially cost millions of dollars. DANIEL PETROCELLI: Mr.
Goldman, for his part, helped raise money to defray
certain costs of doing the case. We had to hire experts. We had to create a war room
for the course of the trial. We had all sorts
of travel expenses. People started sending
money to help with our case. It was expensive. And people wanted
to help and people wanted to be part of
our journey and our-- and our mission and
our path to justice. When we started
getting responses, it was really mind boggling
to open up these letters. There was one that was a little
card from a child, that in very noticeably child handwriting,
said something about, we love Ron, et cetera. The letter was in
crayon from a child, saying, I just want to-- I just want to help. And it was a dollar bill. You know in your heart that
mom and dad had something to do with that. But it was gut wrenching. DANIEL PETROCELLI: The support
we received from our clients and from the
community, in general, was quite extraordinary. NARRATOR: Day one,
Petrocelli is David against Simpson's Goliath. Time was of the essence. A trial date is set for October. DANIEL PETROCELLI: We had to
do a virtual autopsy of what transpired in the criminal case. We got access to
all the evidence. I personally immersed myself
in everything that transpired in that case, including reading
every book that had been written about that case. Once the plaintiff's
team assembled itself, everybody went to work 24/7. NARRATOR: Much of the
work had to be done prior to depositions, which in
turn, had to be accomplished before the trial. One of the things
that's a little bit different about a civil
case and a criminal case is you're allowed
to take discovery. And that means, in this case,
we could take the deposition of Simpson before the civil
trial started, and see what his answers were going to be
to the questions we were going to ask him on the witness
stand and at the trial. And then you can try to find out
what his story is going to be, what his excuses
are going to be. We call that process
of confronting a witness with a contrary, prior
answer, impeachment. I knew going into
this deposition that the whole objective was
to gather as much impeachment evidence and
impeachment ammunition as I possibly could for use
later on when Simpson was examined at trial. NARRATOR: Petrocelli's plan
to trap Simpson is simple, prove that he was capable of
physically abusing his ex-wife, prove that the physical
evidence in the case pointed only toward him, and
prove that on June 12, 1994, Simpson had motive
to kill his ex-wife, Nicole, and a young waiter
named Ron Goldman, who in a tragic twist of fate, was
returning a pair of glasses that had been left at the
restaurant at which he worked by Nicole's mother. He was simply at the wrong
place, at the wrong time. DANIEL PETROCELLI: I knew that
he wasn't going to confess to the murders. So I knew that
everything, or just about everything he would
say, would be a lie. MICHELLE CARUSO: Once Dan
Petrocelli got the case, he embraced it 1000%. Some people would look
at the Simpson case and say, too many details,
don't get lost in the weeds. But in this case, the
devil is in the details. DANIEL PETROCELLI: Much of
the work I did on this case was to try to
understand, deeply, the motive for these
killings, what happened in that relationship, what went
wrong in that relationship, what went wrong on
those particular days leading up to the murder,
what happened on that day, and not only understanding,
but being able to then prove that he was capable
of doing such a thing, to separate the persona
from the person. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): In this conversation, do you recall saying that
you would kill Nicole? Absolutely not. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you recall having any conversation
about killing Nicole, even if you didn't
mean it seriously? None, absolutely none, ever. [music playing] DANIEL PETROCELLI: The Court was
very concerned about protecting the fairness of
the trial process. The date, time, and place
of Simpson's deposition were kept a secret. When I arrived to my office
where the deposition was going to take place, it was ringed
with television trucks, cameras, crews. FRED GOLDMAN: There
was all kinds of media. We couldn't figure out
how it ever got out. But frankly, the assumption
was that their side must have let it out because we certainly
didn't have any reason to want to let it out. And it was, here we go
with the circus again. We've waited a long time
to have an opportunity to ask the hard questions
and have questions answered under oath. And I think, out of it, will
come a lot of very interesting things. DANIEL PETROCELLI: When I first
met Simpson and was escorting him into my offices
for his deposition, he was very friendly,
wanted to chit chat. And part of me wanted to jump
right in, and talk with him, and ask him, how did he dodge
that tackle against UCLA. And then I had to have a reality
check, and say, wait a second, I'm here representing my
client and he killed my client. STEVEN FOSTER: So we are
in the internal conference room on the 10th
floor of our building. And this is where
the majority, if not all of the depositions in the
Simpson civil case, took place. Mr. Simpson sat
in this chair when he was grilled for 11 days. The court reporter
would tend to sit here and transcribe the deposition. And then you would have
Fred Goldman, typically would be somewhere around
the middle of the table towards the back, never
wanting to really get too close to the killer. DANIEL PETROCELLI: We
had discussions with Fred and his family about
preparing themselves to be in the same
room with OJ Simpson, to sit across a conference room
table no more than 3 or 4 feet from Simpson. It was difficult for him. And he told me not to worry. He goes, you know, I'm
not going to blow up, I'm not going to
do anything rash. But a lot of people in the
media were always questioning, you know, whether Fred
would come in with a gun, for example, because of how
raw Fred's feelings were. As much as I would like to
have grabbed him by the throat and strangled him, knowing
that it was on camera, and knowing that
ultimately he was probably going to be exactly the same
in the courtroom, I was fine. Let the son of a
bitch hang himself. He, by choice,
murdered two people-- by choice. And, uh, he should never be
left alone for that reason. Again, he belongs in
jail and death row. NARRATOR: Besides
the Goldman family attorneys, also in the room are
attorneys for Sharon Rufo, Ron Goldman's birth mother, who had
been estranged from Ron for 15 years, and the attorney
representing the family of Nicole Brown, John Kelly. Mr. Simpson can go out
there and speak for himself. My client, Nicole-- Mr. Simpson knows this
better than anybody-- cannot speak for
herself right now. NARRATOR: Simpson is represented
by the well-known trial attorney, Bob Baker, who has
25 years of civil litigation experience, and Bob Blasier, who
was also a member of Simpson's legal dream team during
the criminal trial. STEVEN FOSTER: Simpson
would come through the door to the north. Fred would enter on the
south side of the room. We tried to keep them apart. Simpson was a
pretty arrogant guy. And you knew when he
was in the building. There were times when I could
hear him coming from floors away, laughing and joking. He was very obnoxious. He felt invincible
after scathing by in the criminal trial. He was just very pompous
and very arrogant, and walked in and
tried to own the place. We all wanted to
protect Fred from that. FRED GOLDMAN: And then
the deposition started. And we had another
opportunity to see the killer and his arrogance at work. He was in a chair that
allowed him to lean way back. And he would lean way back
with his arms behind his head, like this. And as Dan was
asking him questions, he would go, yeah,
yeah, or he'd mumble. And sometimes he put his
head down on the table. He just didn't give a crap. It was as simple as that. It was just a big bother to him. I'm sorry. The deposition
was wide ranging, not just, you know, where were
you on the night of June 12, but going through his entire
history, and particularly, the history of his relationship
with Nicole Brown Simpson. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): And you cut her lip, didn't you? That's incorrect. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
You hit her with your fist, and you caused her
lip to split open. Is that right? That's incorrect. Because these murders
happened for a reason. This wasn't a random
drive by shooting. This wasn't a robbery. This wasn't a rape murder. This was a rage
killing, motivated by the intense personal
feelings between Simpson and his recently
estranged ex-wife. We were convinced that
we had to establish motive. You know, we had to show that
there was a reason why he would commit this murder
because he was, you know, a rich and famous guy. He was already
separated from Nicole. So what would drive
him to do this? We did have to dig deeply
into the relationship between the two, and
to the obvious anger that he had towards Nicole. We all knew, on
our side of the case, that he would lie about
every important fact. That was no mystery. He wasn't going to admit
to killing Nicole and Ron. He was taking that to his grave. And so his whole story was
going to be one big lie. We knew that. He knew that. I believe his lawyers knew that. I believe everybody knew that. So this was going to be an
exercise in getting as many lies as possible on the
record, and then later on showing to the jury that,
in fact, they were all lies. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): How do you account for the finger marks on
Nicole's throat, Mr. Simpson? I don't know. I don't know. I never saw them, so I
can't account for them. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): And you caused scars on her face, didn't you? Uh, that's incorrect. We spent a fair amount of
time trying to prepare him. Um, but he-- he still has a
bad habit of volunteering stuff and trying to explain things. I'm wrestling her
and I'm holding her. It's pretty tough not to have
a person around their shoulders and their necks
and their bodies. We were wrestling. And, um, it-- it could
have happened, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
What could have happened is that you could have had
your fingers around her throat and caused those marks. Is that what you're saying? His narrative was to say
that they wrestled and pushed each other around. He would not admit that he
struck her in any way, shape, or form. DANIEL PETROCELLI:
With Simpson, I remember it was quite
easy to get him to talk. And he was a good talker too. I mean, he could talk to a post. You ask him a question,
he would go on and on. He would spin his
side of the story. But the more he
spoke, the easier it was for us to later on attack
it and show that he was lying just about every single
important fact in the case. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
And you remember choking her? No, I know I didn't choke her. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): You remember having
your fingers cause marks to be left on her neck? OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO):
Not specifically. I think any marks that's on her,
I take full responsibility for. I don't know what else
you want me to do. I take total
responsibility for it. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Why? Because I shouldn't have
handled the situation the way I did. All my life with Nicole, no
matter what was going on, I handled it without
being physical with her. And that time I got
physical with her. And I'm ashamed of it. I wish it not had happened. And I-- I-- I make
no excuses for it. It came across as being a
little bit disingenuous for OJ to say he was responsible,
but then not-- not acknowledging what
they claim he did. FRED GOLDMAN: Maybe I
was responsible, but I-- I never hit her. And then he would always somehow
or other try to blame her. It was her fault. She
would argue with me, or she would start
all these arguments. It was her fault. And
I would never hit her. I don't know how she
would get black and blue. And you know, he-- he--
he never owned anything. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): I'm not asking you about the moral or
other responsibility. I'm asking for
what happened, OK? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): You had your fingers around her throat, correct? Uh, I could have
touched her neck, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): What do you mean you could
have touched her? I could have-- DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
This was a violent episode, wasn't it? It was-- yes, it was. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): You were enraged when you had this act
of violence towards her, weren't you? Mm, I don't know if
that's totally true. But I was angry, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Very angry, right. Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): And rage is a fair description of your-- your state of mind, correct? No, it's not. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Not? Anger?
- Anger, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Intense anger. Anger. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Angry enough to hit her. No. [music playing] NARRATOR: For 11
days in early 1996, attorney, Daniel Petrocelli,
interrogates OJ Simpson about his possible role in the
murders of his ex-wife, Nicole Brown, and a young
waiter named Ron Goldman. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you ever meet Ron Goldman? Not that I know of. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Did you ever talk to Ron Goldman? Not that I know of. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you ever see Ron Goldman? Not that I know of. During the entire time
of the criminal case, Simpson, of course,
was incarcerated. And he spent his time reading
every single thing he could get his hands on about the case. We knew that he had committed
to memory what every witness had said. I remember deliberately deciding
that I would almost question him randomly and in a
sort of haphazard manner so that he could not keep linear
track of everything in his mind as he had memorized. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Did Nicole say to you in May or June of 1994, if
you really want this marriage to work out, you're going
to have to go to therapy to control your anger? No. So just to give you
a very simple example, rather than have
him explain to me, you know, what he
did, chronologically, from the moment he
boarded that plane to go to Chicago late in
the evening of June 12, I, for example, asked
him, Mr. Simpson, what were you wearing when you
were flying back to Chicago? DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): What clothing did you put on when you left
Chicago to go back to LA? BOB BLASIER (ON VIDEO): We've
been through all of this. I started off with some jeans
and I ended up in [inaudible] and black pants and a
white shirt and whatever. DANIEL PETROCELLI: So
then I might have gone on to an entirely
different subject. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Now, when you were a youth, were you
involved in any gang fights? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Were you a participant? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Did you use a knife in any of those? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
What weapons did you use? Fists. So I would jumble up the
story so that he couldn't just give it back to me in the
way that he had memorized it. I think it was very effective
because you could see his mind racing. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Tell me about pulling the Bronco in. You walked out the door
and went out to Ashford. Yeah, I went out on Ashford. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): And what did you do? I pulled the Bronco in,
took the golf clubs off. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Do you, have any reason to believe it's not yours? OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO):
Well, I know that-- I don't know-- DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
And you believe you're on the Bundy property at-- OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO):
[inaudible] I recognize [inaudible] DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Are those your socks? OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO): I
have no way of knowing. FRED GOLDMAN: We certainly
weren't going to just accept his answers. He was going to get drilled. And the more we drilled, the
more uncomfortable he became. And that's a wonderful
sight to see. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
When you were half dressed, you came down and dropped the
suit bag on this golf bag, correct? I don't know if was on it,
but in the same place, yeah. NARRATOR: Petrocelli's
peppering of questions including the status of his relationship
with then girlfriend, Paula Barbieri. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): You had a monogamous relationship
with her at that time. Is that right? With who? DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Paula. Monogamous? DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Yeah. I'm a little confused
by the question. But if sh-- she's
the only girl I had sex with from-- for the--
probably the previous four weeks. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Did you say something in a message
to the effect that, uh, hi, this is OJ, I'm unattached
for the first time in my life? Possibly. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Was that true? Mm, possibly. Dan's an effective
cross examiner. And like all effective
cross examiners, he'll use different
paces at different times. At times, he'll
go fairly slowly, allow the person
to fully answer, think about the next
question and go on to that. At other times, you want to
push the person a little harder. You want to ask
staccato questions. You want to make sure that
you're throwing them off guard and getting the truth
out of the person. He knows exactly
where he's trying to take the witness, what
answers he's looking for, what facts he's trying
to establish and lock in. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
She said that you, uh, were screaming and yelling and
using profanity at the table. Was that true? I don't believe so, no. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
And she said you followed her down to the ladies room. No, that's wrong. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): She said you barged into the ladies
room, kicking the door open, going inside. That's wrong. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): That you made a big scene in front of
the patrons and the restaurant manager. That's-- uh, she-- she said that, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Yeah, is that true? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Can you think of any other brand names
of shoes that you have worn? No. ROBERT BAKER (ON
VIDEO): You're not go try to trip him up by asking
the same question 15 times. It's not appropriate
conduct at this deposition. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
I'm trying to get the truth. I'm not trying to trip him up. If he's telling the truth,
he won't be tripped up. Petrocelli obviously wanted
to get into some of the things that would help his case more. Bob Baker didn't want
OJ talking a lot. He would keep telling OJ, don't
answer that, don't answer that, don't answer that. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): How many times during the entire time you lived
with her at Rockingham were you unfaithful? How many-- how many extramarital
relationships did you have? Well, he said they had
a great relationship. I'm entitled to
examine him about that. You don't want to
answer that question? DANIEL PETROCELLI: The
evidence amassed by the LAPD was sufficient to have convicted
Simpson many times over. They had his blood evidence. They had DNA evidence. They had hair fiber evidence. They had clothing
fiber evidence. The one piece of evidence
that they did not have was the shoes that
the killer wore. The scientific investigation
division of the LAPD discovered that this footprint
left at the crime scene was left by a Bruno Magli shoe. It's a distinctive
kind of footprint. And it's an expensive,
not common pair of shoes. DANIEL PETROCELLI: The
impressions were measured. They were size 12. 9% of the population
wears size 12. Simpson wears size 12. TOM LAMBERT: The police
tried to find if Simpson had a pair of those shoes. And they were never
able to locate them. And Simpson denied
that he ever had. When I questioned him in
his pre-trial deposition about whether he owned
Bruno Magli shoes-- DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Do you ever buy shoes that you knew were
Bruno Magli shoes? No. --I said, why would you
never own those shoes? You own lots of shoes. Because I know if Bruno Magli
makes shoes, that would look like the shoes they had in court
that's involved in this case, I would have never worn
those ugly ass shoes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
You thought those were ugly ass shoes? Yes. I said, well, why
are they ugly ass? DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Why were they ugly ass shoes? Because in my mind, they were. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
What about them was ugly, Mr. Simpson? The look of them,
the style of them. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
What-- what about the style? I don't know. They were ugly to me. Aesthetically, I felt
that they were ugly. And I guess beauty is in
the eye of the beholder. And to me, they were ugly shoes. NARRATOR: Little
did Simpson know, his words would come
back to haunt him. [music playing] REPORTER 1: Nicole Brown
Simpson's friend, Faye Resnick, says she-- REPORTER 2: Faye
Resnick's testimony has raised a lot of
questions about Simpson. NARRATOR: Lawyers in the
OJ Simpson civil case traveled to New York City to
take the deposition of one of Nicole Brown's close
friends, Faye Resnick. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): You were a friend of Nicole Brown Simpson. Is that right? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): You may have to speak
up a little bit so that the people at the
end of the table can hear. Yes, I was. Faye Resnick is a woman who
had been very close to Nicole and had written
a book about her. So she was deposed in
order to kind of find out what she knew about what
had happened to Nicole. TOM LAMBERT: She knew a
lot about the relationship between Simpson and Nicole. And she-- she was one of our
witnesses to the relationship and how Nicole feared him. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Miss Resnick testified under oath that you
called her on May 2 or May 3, had a telephone call with her. Do you recall that? No. Not particularly, on. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): This telephone conversation that you just
described, Miss Resnick, was this the first
time that you had ever disclosed to OJ Simpson your
knowledge of his prior abuse? Yes, it was. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did he say anything to you about the abuse when you brought
it up in the conversation? Yes, he did. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Apart from expressing to Faye your concerns
over Nicole, did you-- do you ever express or vent
any anger about Nicole? No, not any anger, not to--
to the degree that you mentioned earlier, no. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): What did he say? He said that he
doesn't beat her anymore. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
He used the words, "anymore"? Mm-hmm. Yes, he did. And I reminded him that
he had just told me that he would kill Nicole. And he reiterated that he had
no option, essentially, that she was bringing it on herself. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): In this conversation, you told Faye that
you would kill Nicole. Do you recall saying that? Absolutely not. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you recall having any conversation
with Faye Resnick about killing Nicole, even if you
didn't mean it seriously? None, absolutely none, ever. FAYE RESNICK (ON VIDEO):
He was aggressive. He was out of control. He was spewing with anger. It was-- it was
frightening for me to be on the other
end of the phone, having even the
distance of our homes. I was afraid. OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO): I
don't know about angry. I was, um, concerned about
what the heck was going on with Nicole. I know I had expressed to Faye,
and I expressed to the Browns. Our objective was to show that
he would lie and lie and lie over and over and over
again, and convince the jury that if he were a liar,
he were a murderer. The pregnancy
beatings, where he used to kick her in the
stomach and tell her that she was worthless. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): You know whether she ever suffered
any injuries while she was pregnant? No. FAYE RESNICK (ON VIDEO):
And she said that, um-- she said that Sydney
saw some of them. And she, um-- can I stop
for a minute, please? Faye Resnick was able to kind
of describe how fearful Nicole was and some of the stories of
him being abusive towards her. She painted a very clear
picture of how he and Nicole's relationship was. NARRATOR: Another friend of
Nicole's, an LAPD officer who was retired at the time of
the civil trial, specialized in domestic violence cases. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did members of the LAPD frequent your house
from time to time? One individual,
uh, had used my pool, I think when he was
still with the LAPD. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Who was that? Uh, Ron Shipp. I've known OJ since-- at this
time, since I was 16 years old. Never seen him mad. I've been over his
house a million times. I've never heard him, you
know, moaning and groaning, oh, that son of a-- you know. I mean, he-- he would complain
about some people, you know. And you know, but
not really bad. One day Nicole asked me to
sit down with her and talk. And as we got into
the conversation, she started talking about him. She started crying. Now, Nicole-- everybody
that knows her-- she's a pretty tough woman. I had never ever seen
her like that, ever. And I looked at her face. And I could tell-- she
had heavy makeup on-- there was marks,
bruises on her face. She got real serious. And she just said, you
know, Ron, he did it to me, and brought down a bunch of
pictures of the past when he had beaten her. And I was like, you
got to be kidding me? Every ounce of respect
that I ever had for him kind of went out of the window. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): And if Nicole said you did those things
to her, she would not be telling the truth-- Correct. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Is that what you're saying? That's correct. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): She would be lying? Yes. But she would not tell
that lie under oath. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): She would tell that lie when
she's not under oath. Is that what you're saying? Possibly, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
She would lie to herself even? I leaned over, and--
and I hugged her. And she-- she put her
head on my-- on my, you know, my right-- my
right shoulder or my chest, around that area. And then she just laid into me. She just told me everything
that happened between them and how I didn't
really know him. She started asking me about the
domestic violence, the class that I taught. She looked at the lesson plan. And she said, do you
think there's any way that you could have this
conversation with him and let him read this? DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Going back, what happened with Shipp
a couple of days later? He came by. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): And what did he discuss with you? Well, he wanted
to discuss what-- I don't know if he wanted to
discuss what was happening. He tried to talk to Nicole. He came in and talked to me. Um, and, um, he said that he had
some expertise in this field. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
The field of domestic violence? Yes, and he made
some suggestions. I told him, when he was trying
to figure out what he should do, and I said, man, what
I think you should do, I think you should, uh, say,
you know, you had a problem, you're going to get help, and
admit that you did you did what you did, you know, because
there's no getting around it. I said, the woman's
battering groups, they'll probably embrace you. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
What did he suggest to you? He wanted me to make
some public statement. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): About? About the incident. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): And you said no. Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Why? Because I don't want to. OFFICER (ON VIDEO): Do you swear
that the testimony you shall give in this deposition will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God? Yes, I do. OFFICER (ON VIDEO):
Thank you very much. NARRATOR: Perhaps one of
the most dramatic moments in the deposition process comes
when Simpson's best friend, Al Cowlings, testifies. Cowlings drove his white
Bronco with a suicidal Simpson in the back seat when Simpson
was on the run from police five days after the murders. When we went down to the
hospital, I stood by her. And when-- when the nurse
asked her what had happened, Nicole looked at me, and
I said, Nicole, you've got to tell them. And she told them
that she was hit. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO): By? By OJ. I don't know-- I don't
know if she said OJ, but she said she was hit. They ashed her, how did
you sustain your injuries or whatever like that,
and she said, I was hit. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO): OK. DANIEL PETROCELLI: It was
clear that he was deeply conflicted about the
case because he was very close to Nicole Brown Simpson. He was almost like
a brother to her. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO): Was
there any doubt in your mind as to whether or not Nicole
loved you as a friend? AL COWLINGS (ON VIDEO):
We had a good friendship. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO): OK,
do you think she loved you? She never told
me she loved me. But I know we had
a good friendship. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO):
OK, did you love her? Yes. Al Cowlings was a very good
friend of Nicole's, as well as OJ's. So he was obviously
very upset about what had happened with the homicide. NARRATOR: Cowlings was
even a groomsman at OJ and Nicole's wedding. This is to OJ and
Nicole with all my love. I wish you nothing but the best. BOB BLASIER: It became
a big issue for him in terms of how he
dealt with the fact that Nicole was murdered
and OJ is his best friend. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO):
Mr. Cowlings, I'm going to ask you to
look at this picture. It's been previously marked
as exhibit number 45. My take on Cowlings was
that Simpson had ducked a life sentence in the criminal
case, the civil case was just about money. He loved Nicole also. And he wasn't going
to lie about anything. And you know, if Simpson
got whacked with a judgment or something, he
just didn't care. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO): I'll ask
if you recognize that picture. STEVEN FOSTER: We confronted
AC Cowlings with photographs of Nicole, the battered
photographs with the black eyes and things of that nature. And AC Cowlings started to cry. And it was heartfelt.
I remember clearly, him breaking down and crying. I think he said, I loved Nicole. And it was genuine. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO): Then who
do you recognize that to be? Nicole. [music playing] NARRATOR: Late January and
early February 1996, the weeks long deposition of OJ Simpson
continues in the civil case brought against him for the
wrongful deaths of Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman. In his criminal trial, in
which he was acquitted, Simpson's attorneys
had accused members of the LAPD of being racist
and having planted evidence at the crime scene and at
Simpson's home in order to implicate Simpson
in the slayings. His attorneys in the civil
trial attempt the same strategy. [music playing] DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
As of June 17, Mr. Simpson, did you have any information
that caused you to believe that you were being framed
or set up by the LAPD? No. The whole defense was-- was they were
trying to say either that all of this incriminating
evidence against Simpson was planted or that somehow all
of the incriminating evidence against Simpson was contaminated
by incompetent police officers, that some of the
officers were incompetent and couldn't do the
job and other ones were tricky and sneaky and could
go behind the scenes and plant evidence without being caught. And they expected you to
buy both of those arguments because either one
alone could not possibly prove that he was not guilty. NARRATOR: Simpson was examined
by the police, and then members of his defense team
immediately after the murders. He told detectives he could
have cut his hand while packing for a trip to Chicago the
night of the slayings, and that the wound had nothing
to do with the stabbing deaths of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. Though he originally told the
police he cut himself at home and reopened the cut in Chicago,
he now changes his story. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Did you tell the police, hey, I cut
myself last night, maybe that's from me? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you offer any explanation, at that time, with respect
to those blood drops? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Did you conclude, in your own mind, that perhaps
those blood drops were left by you because you
had cut your finger-- No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): --the night before? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
You have no thoughts one way or another how those
blood drops got there? I didn't think
about blood drops. I was thinking about Nicole, my
kids, and why was I handcuffed. NARRATOR: Over the course of
several days of depositions, Simpson says that he cut his
finger in his Chicago hotel room after learning
of Nicole's death. I broke the glass
in the process of going back and forth to the
phone and trying to get packed. I cut myself trying to move
the glass out of my way, somewhere in that-- that happened. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Did you remember cutting your finger? I remember bleeding. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Do you remember cutting your middle finger on-- No, I remember
bleeding, and then seeing that I was bleeding, so. When Dan asked
him, well, you say you might have cut your
finger in Chicago, how? How did you do it? How did you break the glass? Was it with your left
hand, your right hand? DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): And exactly how did you cut it with the glass? I was, um, trying
to scoop the glass into the sink with
some toilet paper and, uh, I believe a towel. TOM LAMBERT: At the crime
scene, there was not only the blood of Ron and
Nicole, which of course, you would expect because
they were murdered there, but Simpson's blood
was there too. And Simpson's blood
was on the glove that was found at his house
and it was in his car, mixed with the blood
of Ron and Nicole. And he came back from Chicago
with a big cut on his hand. So obviously those
all tied in together. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): You weren't aware of any cuts
on your left hand prior to coming
to Chicago, right? No. And I was-- no, I n-- I never-- no, I never
saw a cut on my hand. No, I haven't, no. That's correct. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): That's correct. That's correct. NARRATOR: Armed with a
tape from the police, Petrocelli knows
Simpson is lying. And he continues to hammer
away at the former football star as part of his strategy
to lay a trap for Simpson when they go to trial. You can't just
go in a deposition and say, tell me what
happened that day. You have to know what happened
and target your questions to make sure you get that
person on the record, on the very exact piece of
information that you want. It's like surgery with words. And Dan was a master of that. Obviously Petrocelli did
not think that it really happened that way. And that's why he was
peppering him with questions after question after
question because he wanted to try and show lack of
credibility on OJ's part in terms of his explanation
of what happened in Chicago. FRED GOLDMAN: Dan just
kept asking the question. If he didn't get an
answer, he'd ask him again. Of course, the killer was
always getting frustrated that he didn't like
things not going his way. But ultimately, he
was pushed to answer. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Did you cut it on one of the
broken pieces of glass? He went for detail. And Simpson got more and more
distraught the more the cuts were talked about. Yeah. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): On what peace? Can we take a break? ROBERT BAKER (ON
VIDEO): Yeah, sure. Jesus Christ. [music playing] DANIEL PETROCELLI: A young
lawyer came into my office. She was on our legal team. And she plopped down
the paper of record in the Simpson case, which
was the "National Enquirer." Every day they wrote a story
about the Simpson case. Right there was a picture of
Simpson walking in the end zone at Rich Stadium in Buffalo
as an NBC TV announcer, with a pair of shoes that looked
like the Bruno Magli shoes. But then there was a
blow up of one of them. And it clearly was
a Bruno Magli shoe. I would have never worn
those ugly ass shoes. It was a big deal. But it was the "National
Enquirer," right? So who's going to believe them? They don't have a
lot of credibility. We hired a photographic expert. He was former FBI, you know, one
of the top photographic experts in the world. And he analyzed the photo. This photo was not doctored. This photo was real. DANIEL PETROCELLI: We ran
the photographer down. He was living in Buffalo. His name was Harry Scull
Jr. Merry Christmas, the guy had like
the camera equipment he used to take the photographs. He had the negatives. He had his ticket to the game. He had everything. He was a string photographer. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
And that is a picture of you, looking at exhibit one, correct? It appears to be me, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
And the jacket you're wearing, could you describe it? No. Do you remember
owning that jacket? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you remember wearing that jacket? No. And that's your face, right? Yeah, that's my face. And that's your shirt, right? DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): What about the shirt? OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO):
Looks like a white shirt. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
OK, nothing stands out about that white shirt? Uh, no. I like the collar, though. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
OK, what do you like about it? I don't know. It looks nice. I remember him looking at the
collar of the shirt he had on. Yeah, that's a nice shirt or
a nice collar or something. You know, we're talking
about a murder case. And he's talking about,
oh, I like the way that-- that looks there,
that's very nice. DANIEL PETROCELLI: And those
are your shoes, aren't they? DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Looking at the close up of the shoes, do you believe
that those were shoes that you owned at that time? No. I said, well,
that's you, isn't it? He goes, yeah, that's me,
but they are not my shoes. KIM GOLDMAN: There was no way
those pictures were doctored. It was proof that he had
the shoes on his feet, that he owned them. But we also had
blood evidence that only pointed to one person. And we still couldn't get
a jury to find him guilty. So now I'm thinking, oh,
now you put him in shoes, I don't know that
that was going to be what was going to make this jury
think that he was the killer. I wasn't totally prepared to
put all my faith in it yet. NARRATOR: Photographs
of shoes similar to those worn by the murderer,
dozens of pieces of evidence from the crime scene, proof
of continual domestic abuse from police reports and friends,
the plaintiff's attorneys had their legal guns
loaded going into trial. But would it be enough
to beat OJ Simpson? [shouting] Everyone wondered,
would these civil lawyers be able to do something
that had seemed impossible? Could they surmount the
fact that OJ Simpson was a famous person? And many, many people
just simply could not see him as a murderer. No one knew. No one knew if it
would be enough. [music playing] DANIEL PETROCELLI: The
civil trial took place in Santa Monica, three or four
blocks from the Pacific Ocean, where the courthouse is located. The reporters and
members of the media were fond of calling
it OJ by the Sea. I remember saying to the firm
that I didn't think there would be much publicity
about the case, that the press and the public
were certain to lose interest. [chanting] He's a murderer! We love OJ! Boy, was I wrong. How come you can't
deal with the facts? I could not walk
into the courthouse without being followed
by throngs of reporters all the time. OJ Simpson was very arrogant. He was jovial. And in the morning when he'd
drive in with his bodyguards, he tried to engage the media. Best of luck. The best of luck, man. The best of luck.
- You're the man. We love you. MICHELLE CARUSO: He
was back to being, you know, OJ of the
Hertz commercials. That doesn't look like me. How did it go? He's the greatest. MICHELLE CARUSO: I think
he was very confident. I beat the first trial, I'm
going to beat this one too. NARRATOR: Because there are
no cameras in the courtroom, there is no video or
audio record of the trial. However, many of the
questions and answers from the depositions in the
case are similar to what went on inside the courtroom. OFFICER (ON VIDEO): Would you
raise your right hand, please? You do solemnly swear that
the testimony you shall give is the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God? I do. OFFICER (ON VIDEO): Thank you. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Good morning, Mr. Simpson. DANIEL PETROCELLI: The
testimony of Simpson was much like a
deposition in the sense that we all knew he was not
going to confess to killing two people. And the exercise was
really one designed simply to show that he would
lie about his involvement in these murders. The idea being that if the jury
concluded that he was a liar, then he was a murderer. When I confronted him in court,
in front of a packed courtroom, no more than 3 or
4 feet from him. But I was a little nervous. I remember starting
my examination of him at trial, by confronting him
with his vicious spousal abuse of Nicole Brown
Simpson, including beating her face almost to a
pulp on New Year's Eve, 1989. We had photographs that she
had saved from that beating that we displayed to the jury
on a big screen television that sat on the stand
right next to Simpson while he was on
the witness stand. And when I confronted him
about causing all the injuries, you know, her bruised
and battered face, he tried to avoid
answering by saying, I take full responsibility
for what happened to her. Yes, I saw her bruised. And I felt responsible
for those bruises. If it came from me or if it
came when she fell outside, in any event, I was
responsible for it. That was his mantra. He had said that
repeatedly from the time he had gotten out of jail and
a lot of his public statements, I take responsibility,
I take responsibility. And I remember saying, I didn't
ask you about whether you take responsibility. I said, it's the
jury's job to decide if you take responsibility. One of the things Dan did,
and did very effectively, was he did get
Simpson on the ropes. And he did get under
Simpson's skin, and did show
Simpson's true colors. DANIEL PETROCELLI: I found
myself, believe it or not, in competition with
him, a person who had no athletic
ability up against one of the greatest
athletes of all time. And here I am, in
combat with this guy. Simpson is a
confrontational guy. He's also a very competitive
person, as is Dan. And it was a battle. I mean, the two of
them were battling. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
What did you do to her? I wrestled her. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): What does that mean? That means I had
my hands on her, and I was trying to force
her out of my bedroom. We wrestled. MICHELLE CARUSO: Simpson is up
there, talking about wrestling. Well, we wrestled a little. We-- we tussled. We pushed back and forth. Did you ever strike her? No. Did you ever slap her? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
If she fell when she was outside it's because you
made her fall, right? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Because you were hitting her, right?
OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO): No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
You were pounding her. No, that's incorrect. And the pictures, in living
color of Nicole's bruised and battered face,
were flashing by. FRED GOLDMAN: He couldn't
even go so far as to say, I made the mistake of
my life that day, I hit her. He couldn't do that. You know, that-- that wasn't-- that wasn't part of his persona. It was always somebody else
was to blame, never him, never, never, never, never. MICHELLE CARUSO: You could see
him starting to lose that mask, the happy OJ Simpson mask. It started to fade. He, at one point, put
up his hands and said, I tried to like push her away. And he put up both fists,
like balled up like this. I said, you just
put your fists up. Is that what you did that night? [music playing] REPORTER: OJ Simpson's
attorney, Robert Baker, was all smiles when he
arrived at the courthouse. But inside, he started to
build his case by tearing down Nicole Brown Simpson,
basically putting her on trial. Baker told the
jury it was Nicole who was the pursuer in the
months before the murders, trying to shoot down the
theory that Simpson was a jealous, obsessed ex-husband. In fact, Baker
said it was Simpson who wanted to end the
relationship because of Nicole's mood swings. NARRATOR: Simpson's
attorneys attempted to defend him by attacking the
lifestyle of his former wife. I had found out that
things were going on. And that was essentially
what I was yelling about. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
But that wasn't about drug use by Nicole. Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): In what sense? In the sense that
I was told that day about them all doing drugs at
a place called a Monkey Bar. One of the strategies
for the defense was to cast Nicole Brown Simpson
in the most negative light they could, trophy wife, married a
high profile athlete because of all the attendant benefits
related to that, party girl. I mean, the list went on and on. There was a lot of information
that she was into drugs and that she was into a
lot of different guys. We had to try and
show that it was not all a one-sided situation. NARRATOR: The defense also
questioned the credibility of Ron Goldman. In the criminal
case, the defense tried to make my brother
out to be like a drug dealer and, you know, this loser. And in the civil case they
tried to do the same thing. They talked about that
he didn't finish college and he had credit
card debt, and-- he was a kid. He was 25 years old. And he was just kind of
finding his way in his life. And I think that Dan did
a really good job of just bringing that to the courtroom
so that people could get to know my brother
and to just see him for this beautiful human that
tried to save his friend. And I think that's the
legacy that got left. FRED GOLDMAN: They wanted
to bring in racism. They wanted to bring in
planting of evidence. It was the same crap
over and over again. But this was a trial in which
the judge just wasn't going to allow game play. It was going to be
a legal proceeding. It was going to
be about the law. The defense perpetrated this
idea that the police planted evidence, which was
literally impossible in the circumstances
of the case, if you understood
exactly what happened and when things happened. And so I asked
Simpson about that. I said, well, you know, we
heard in the criminal case that you think the
police planted evidence. I mean, what proof
do you have of that? He couldn't explain anything. How did the victim's
blood get in his Bronco? DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you know why the blood on
the console of the Bronco is consistent with a mixture
of Ron Goldman's and Nicole's blood? OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO): No. How did the victim's
blood get in his bedroom? DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you know why the blood on
the socks in your bedroom matched Nicole's blood? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you know why the shoe prints found
at Bundy matched Bruno Magli shoes? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): You have no knowledge about any of these things? Mm, other than what
I heard in court, no. There were no answers
to any of these questions. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you know why the blood in
the foyer of your house matched your blood? No. I remember distinctly
thinking of myself, finally you have a lawyer
in the courtroom who knows what he's doing. It was a thing of beauty. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you know why the glove
found at Rockingham had fibers matching
Ron Goldman's shirt? I mean, I have
no-- no, I don't. I have no knowledge of any
of this that you're saying. I'd actually feel
bad for OJ Simpson because I knew that the
evidence was mounting. And I knew what
Petrocelli was doing. He was teeing things up,
his mountain of evidence. [music playing] NARRATOR: One of the key
pieces of information that the plaintiff's
attorneys hammered home, was that Simpson was
further enraged on the day of the murders because
he received a voicemail from his then girlfriend,
Paula Barbieri, that said she was breaking up with him. MICHELLE CARUSO: On the
morning of June 12th, Paula Barbieri
called OJ Simpson, got his answering service,
and left a breakup message. It was quite detailed. Basically things
weren't working out. It wasn't what she'd hoped for. It was a clear breakup message. NARRATOR: Barbieri did not
testify at the civil trial. But lawyers played the
tapes of her deposition. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): You left the message for Mr. Simpson at 7 o'clock
in the morning on his Bentley voicemail, saying basically the
relationship was over, right? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Did you get a message from Paula Barbieri? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you receive any message from her before you left? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Did you receive any messages back from him at any
time on June 12th? Um, yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
What were the messages that you picked out? What did they say? Um, sort of what
was wrong now. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
You didn't get any phone messages from her that day? I don't believe I ever
retrieved any messages from her that day. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
In other words, from the content of the messages he left, you
understood that he had already received your message. Is that right? Yes. MICHELLE CARUSO: We know OJ
Simpson received that message because the phone records
show that he did call in for his messages
and he did receive that particular message. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Message Manager, do you see that? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO): It
shows a call of eight minutes. Do you see that? OJ SIMPSON (ON VIDEO): Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
You picked up your message at that time? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Do you know what that entry is for? No. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): No idea? At the time, I don't have any
idea, but I'm assuming-- oh, you told me not to assume. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Well, do you now know what it is? I can only assume
now what it is. DANIEL PETROCELLI
(ON VIDEO): Tell me. I'm assuming it's
a message from Paula. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Following your breakup with Mr. Simpson, did there come a time
when your relationship began again? Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): And when was that? Um, while he was in jail. MICHELLE CARUSO: The reason
it becomes significant is that Simpson steadfastly
maintained in his depositions and in his trial testimony that
he never heard Paula Barbieri's breakup message. So you ask yourself, of all the
damning evidence in the case, he's worried about and
lying about that message. So why is that
important to Simpson? I believe that he
did not want anyone to know his frame of
mind on June 12th. MANNY MEDRANO: Probably what
put things over the top for OJ Simpson was Nicole Brown finally
deciding that she was going to finally extricate herself
from this relationship with OJ Simpson. And I think the evidence
established that that did not sit well with OJ. He did not react well to that. MICHELLE CARUSO: His daughter,
Sydney, had a dance recital that evening. Simpson attended the recital. But when it was over, he
expected to maybe join her and her family and his
daughter, Sydney, for the post recital dinner. But Nicole Brown Simpson
publicly shunned him. She told him to get lost,
I don't want you there. Then Paula, his new
big hope, she dumps him on the morning of the murders. So he's lost both. He was excluded from
this family outing. He's lost that family. And he also lost the girlfriend
that was hope for his future. And he is a man, left sitting
in his living room, fuming. [music playing] One of the most powerful
moments of the civil trial was when Fred Goldman
was on the stand. I was questioning
him about the loss of his son and the
relationship that they had. A few days before, I had
Fred come to my house. And I said, Fred, you know we're
going to call you this week, and we need to prepare
your testimony. I started to get
all these papers that I had ready to go through
various questions with him. He goes, we're not
going to prepare. I said, what do you mean
we're not going to prepare? He goes, I don't
need any preparation to talk about my son. Just ask your questions
and I'll answer them. STEVEN FOSTER: This was
Fred's first opportunity to really tell Ron's
story from Ron's position. And it was Earth shattering. It was extremely emotional. DANIEL PETROCELLI: He
was speaking with such raw, honest emotions
about the loss of his son and how that will affect
Fred and his family, you know, for the
rest of their lives. FRED GOLDMAN: I couldn't
have been more thrilled, my first child to be a-- a boy. He was an amazing kid, just a
super nice, loving, happy kid. And then as he grew up, of
course, three years later, my daughter was born. Ron was the consummate
big brother. Wherever they went, he
would hold her hand, not because I asked them to,
because that's what he did. If there was ever a time
during the trial that I lost it emotionally was when
I was talking to Fred. And I say talking to him
rather than questioning him because that's what it was. It was just a talk about Fred
and about the loss of his son, Ron, a person I never
knew, a person I never met, but a person I grew to know
almost like he were my own son. MICHELLE CARUSO: Fred
was on the witness stand. And they ran a picture. And it was Ron and Kim. They couldn't have been
more than five, seven. The two of them were
in these snow jackets with the little hoods. They were tromping off
together in the snow. I was overwhelmed with
emotion, seeing it. That was the only time
I almost ever lost it. I cried during Fred's
direct examination. I think everybody cried,
with possibly one exception. And that was Simpson and maybe
some of his defense attorneys. It was a very moving
moment in the trial. The jury felt Fred's pain. Obviously this is
your older brother. Um, we're not going to spend
very much time together so I'm very glad that I was
able to be here and spend this time with you because God
knows where I'll be in a year. So, um, best of luck to you-- There was a videotape shown
of the family, Fred and Ron clowning around together. In November of 1993, my
stepsister had a bat mitzvah. It's the last images
that we have of him. [music playing] Go, Ron! Go, Ron! Go, Ron! Go, Ron! Go, Ron! Go, Ron! Go, Ron! KIM GOLDMAN: We
were all together. And there was this
great scene with my dad. One of his favorite songs
is "Old Time Rock & Roll" by Bob Seger. [MUSIC - BOB SEGER,
"OLD TIME ROCK & ROLL"] BOTH: (SINGING) In ten minutes
I'll be late for the door. I like that old
time rock and roll. In the video, my
dad and my brother were standing next
to each other, and they were kind of like doing
the thing next to each other. BOTH: (SINGING) I like that
old time rock and roll. Rock and roll. Music just soothes the soul. My brother just had the most
electric smile on his face. And it was just cool to
see my dad and my brother be in that moment. DANIEL PETROCELLI: It was
almost unbearable to watch. And I remember, at the
very end, we froze it on a frame depicting
both Ron and Fred, just loving each
other and loving life. It was devastating
to look at that and say they will
never have that again. We finally saw the
destruction of a family at the hands of a murderer. [music playing] REPORTER: OJ Simpson
smiled as he came to court for the first time
in the new year, facing new
incriminating evidence. Fred Goldman's attorney
came armed with 30 newly discovered photos
of Simpson allegedly wearing expensive Italian
shoes similar to the ones worn by the murderer. One picture even appeared in
the "Buffalo Bills" newsletter in November of 1993. JOHN KELLY: I hopped on a plane
and went to the Bill's practice facility. One of the PR people pulled out
the November 1993 newsletter from the Buffalo
Bills Booster Club, and showed me a picture of
Simpson in this newsletter in the Bruno Magli shoes. I said, who took these photos? And he said, talk to
this guy, EJ Flammer. He had 30 color
photographs that he had taken of Simpson that
day, just perfect photographs. You could tell exactly
what the heels were, and the make, the
color, the size. It was the aha moment. And like a fingerprint,
put Simpson at the scene that night. DANIEL PETROCELLI: Do you
know whether the pants that are shown in exhibit one are
pants that belong to you? They look a little big on me. So I would-- normally I'm pretty
fastidious about my clothing. DANIEL PETROCELLI: Looking
at the close up of the shoes in front of you, can you
believe that those were shoes that you owned at that time? No. Those aren't my shoes, even
though you have a photograph showing me in those shoes. So do you believe him? If-- if-- if he's
lying about one thing, he's lying about the other. By that time, I
think all the jurors were looking at their shoes. They didn't believe a
word that he was saying. But I mean, he was
caught red handed. FRED GOLDMAN: He's in the
shoes, same exact shoe that he wore when he
murdered Ron and Nicole. DANIEL PETROCELLI:
He was confronted with all the evidence that
showed that he was lying, whether it be a cell phone
record that showed that he made a call at a certain point. I'm assuming it's
a message from Paula. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
That was made to your message manager?
- Yes. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
Is that what you're saying? That's what it is. Whether it be the diary
of his slain ex-wife, who wrote about brutal abuse
that she suffered at his hands in the last weeks and days
leading up to her murder. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON VIDEO):
She would write in her diary that you hit her
when it wasn't true? She never had a diary. DANIEL PETROCELLI:
--impeached by witnesses who came to the witness
stand and testified to things that Simpson said or did. JOHN KELLY (ON VIDEO):
What was she saying? About how bad she felt
and how OJ, um, hit her, and that she wanted
him to, uh, pay for it. --and, of course, impeached
by all of the forensic evidence. DANIEL PETROCELLI (ON
VIDEO): Was the blood found in the Bronco at
Rockingham your blood? I don't know. DANIEL PETROCELLI:
--and then ultimately impeached by photographs,
showing that he wore the shoes that the killer wore. Because I know if
Bruno Magli makes shoes that look like the
shoes they had in court that's involved in this
case, I would have never worn those ugly ass shoes. OJ Simpson was
crumbling on the stand. When it got into the
details, the blood, the cuts, the specifics, he was crumbling. I think I named and labeled
Dan's deposition outline, early in the litigation,
as the initial ass kicking. And my recollection was I named
his final closing argument the final ass kicking. And it really was. It felt like we kicked the
defense's ass every step of the way. [music playing] DANIEL PETROCELLI: We got a
call very late in the afternoon that the jury had
reached a verdict. The judge did not want
to hold the verdict over until the next day. And so everybody had to
be corralled and gathered and marched on over
to the courthouse. And by the time
all that happened, it was like 6:30 and courts
usually close at 4:35. There were just
masses of people. And even though we were
just across the street, we had to be escorted by police. And there were chants and
demonstrators, people saying, Petrocelli for president,
and people saying, this is a crooked case,
it's an illegal case. I mean, you know, on both sides. FRED GOLDMAN: Certainly, we
hoped, in every way possible, that the jury was going
to find him responsible, and that they were going to see
through all the lies and all the games and all
the bull [bleep].. We were sitting in the
courthouse by then, waiting. And the air conditioning
was turned off because it automatically
goes off in that courthouse. So it's getting hot and
it's getting stuffy. And we're all jammed
into the courtroom. DANIEL PETROCELLI: And I
remember how hot it was. And maybe I was
just a lot hotter than the actual temperature. I was a nervous-- nervous wreck at that point. It was almost like do we
want to hear it, do we not want to hear it? But we were going to
hear it no matter what. Everybody was on
pins and needles. The jury funneled into the box. And Judge Fujisaki asked them,
have you reached a verdict. The foreman said,
we have, Your Honor. These moments are like
etched in my memory, forever. You don't have very many of them
in your life when, you know, something is about to
happen that you know is going to impact your life. But this was one of them. [music playing] MICHELLE CARUSO: The jury
found Orenthal James Simpson responsible. You could hear people
breathing, you know, gasping. I think the emotions
just exploded when we heard that they held him responsible. Then I started hearing
sobbing of Kim and other family members. It was very emotional. My dad was doubled over, crying. We were all holding
something, like each other. It was outstanding,
wonderful news. It was some verification
of our wish for justice. REPORTER: After the
verdict was announced, Simpson walked out
of the courthouse, showing little reaction even
when greeted by catcalls. SPECTATOR: Guilty! KIM GOLDMAN: When we
exited the courtroom and we opened up the door,
there were just thousands of people standing
there with cameras and cheering, just
cheering for us. And that was-- I didn't expect that
to be the scene. I had no idea what was
going on out there. There were people that
were just so proud. And you could hear them yelling,
you know, we support you, we love you, Goldmans. And that it was
finally on the record. All that effort that we had
put in, that it was finally written somewhere that
he was responsible. And I wish a camera had
been in the courtroom. I think the world needed to
see OJ Simpson on the stand. The world needed to see that a
worshiped sports icon, in fact, was capable of brutally
murdering two people. I'll never forget Fred raising
his right arm with a fist punching and yelling victory. I'll never forget that. I was standing right
next to him and Dan. It was an unbelievable
experience. And it just was
epically rewarding. We were victorious. We had gotten the court to
acknowledge the killer had committed murder. He was responsible. I grabbed Dan by the
shoulders and shook him. It was kind of like, my God,
do you see what we've done? Today is 2 and 1/2 years-- a little over 2 and 1/2 years-- and we finally have
justice for Ron and Nicole. If it weren't for all
these wonderful attorneys, whose passion, whose belief,
whose willingness to put in 24 hours a day for all this time,
is proof of the kind of people they are. And I think that's part of the
reason why we're where we're at today. Our family is grateful for
a verdict of responsibility, which is all we ever wanted. And we have it, thank God. Relief-- relief was the single
most active emotion that I felt, just relief that we
had won this case for Fred, and that all these expectations
that were on us had been met. What an extraordinary
honor and privilege it has been to represent
this man and his family. They have conducted themselves
with extraordinary grace and dignity throughout this
entire unspeakable tragedy. And as I told Fred earlier,
just a few moments ago, Ron would have been proud. Ron is proud. Ron is proud. We did this for Ron. I want to go tell him. OK, that's going to be it. [cheering] REPORTER: Mr. Goldman,
what's your reaction? Your reaction? Wonderful! KIM GOLDMAN: I know I'm
going to be Debbie doomsday, but that moment didn't last
forever because the killer left the courtroom just like
us, and was driving around, and went to have ice cream, and
then he went about his life. And he was a free man still. It was bittersweet because
Ron Goldman was dead, Nicole Brown Simpson was dead,
and here we were, celebrating. [music playing] That judgment was a piece of
paper, a piece of paper that's only as good as the
paper it's written on. And that the court offers you
no assistance in getting-- getting the judgment honored. And that's when
we decided that we were going to continue to
go after him for the rest of his life. Despite all of his wealth
and luxury and privilege, he has not paid one dime. He has refused to
honor this judgment. And we intend to enforce it. [music playing] KIM GOLDMAN: When
he went to jail, I sent him a card that
said, "congratulations on your new home." And then in the
inside, I wrote, "I hope you enjoy your new
digs, the Goldman family." My dad was very proud of me. FRED GOLDMAN: At the end
of the book that we wrote, "His Name is Ron," we
wrote the last chapter. And it reads-- if I
can get through it-- "the psychopathic coward who
murdered my son, the desire to confront you, to tell you
exactly what I think of you has simmered and burned in
me since it became so obvious that you were guilty of
taking away from me forever the opportunity to hug
my son and share his life and laughter. You took from Ron, the
opportunity to have children, and to be the most
unbelievable, wonderful father this world could imagine. You took from Ron
the opportunity to share the rest of his
life with Kim, his sister. You took from Ron, the love of
Patti, more of a mother to him than he ever had before. You took from this
Earth, the kind of man you never were, never have
been, and never could be. There is nothing more to say. You are not worth
any more of my words. You are not worth any
more of my energy. You are not worth any
more of my passion. You are not worthy to
walk in Ron's shadow." I had almost forgotten that.
