OCD: Sin, Scrupulosity, Unpardonable Sin, Guilt and More . . .

[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] well hello everyone welcome to this broadcast the creek did not rise the creek did not rise so as i say the lord lord willing in the creek don't rise well it didn't so i'm here and that's pretty much how it works just want to make sure the sound is okay is the sound okay let me know if it's not i did have some technical problems in the last live broadcast but i think things are all right here gonna get into some ocd stuff some ocd stuff so this is your brother from another mother and i'm looking forward to sharing today's subject with you gonna do some marinating and if you are new to any of my broadcasts i take my time because the issues that i talk about we need to take some time we need to sit back and relax so maybe you're driving in your car or sitting on your couch or whatever we're going to talk about some ocd stuff we're going to talk about that although that is not the only subject that i talk about i have a lot of experience working through it and helping people along the journey along the way and if you have that struggle to any dimension you're gonna need some specifically targeted teaching for your life and for your journey what i'm going to do yes the sound is okay sound good okay excellent i was just calling for help regarding this topic so i'm gonna get into sin scrupulosity religious ocd the unpardonable the unpardonable sin we're gonna talk about that kind of stuff and i'm going to use an email that actually just came in i said sometimes i i'll see emails that come in and go you know what i'm just going to use this email i'm going to read it and i'm going to respond to it now please know this doesn't replace any professional help okay um this is not replacing any advice or counsel you're getting and i'm not um in my in my processing too as i read i will make jokes i'll laugh i'll because sometimes we gotta loosen it up okay these areas of ocd make us very serious so i pray that when i you know laugh and make jokes from time to time you'll hear my heart in it that you're um able to to receive the blessing of it because ocd really steals the joy and and and sucks the funny right out of the room too like a like a vortex so um we we got to be able to take our joy back so there's going to be a bunch of religious ocd i'm going to get into in this and i'm going to give feedback that's helpful for all ocd sufferers now i'm going to say this up front because i love my brothers and sisters who struggle with ocd you all write long emails and it's funny because most of the emails come in you're starting to write oh yeah sorry this email is so long you'll write long emails and you all think your problem is worse than everyone else's and that actually works against you because it isolates you in shame makes you feel like a weirdo and makes you feel like you're crazy and what it does too is it disconnects you from help and and those of you that i'm interacting with email or whatever you have to be aware where you go yeah yeah that doesn't work for me and it's like because my situation's different and that can get you stuck beware of certain mindsets and traps that create what i call an iron-clad fortress around your problem in order to experience help and freedom we have to be open to challenge the distortions that we live by because we don't know their distortions there's many ways of thinking that i was like this is true but it wasn't until i challenged the distortion challenge the story to say the way i'm believing the way i'm perceiving is distorted and i need help to shift that and that's going to take some work so i say that up front that um that's a big part of the journey because you can't walk through healing trying to do the same compulsions or the same fixed patterns or the same things and and if you think that solving your religious ocd is going to be helped by reading more material and articles on that subject you're missing the target it's like mark how do i know if this is ocd if this is really god it's ocd when you have ocd patterns you see all of your your life through that now it may be more problematic in a certain area but that's what gets us into traps no no this is i've committed the unpardonable sin i have blasphemed the holy spirit i am not really saved and i've i've i've asked jesus into my life 8472 times and no i really need to no it's it's it's ocd constant disturbance followed by something to fix it that doesn't satisfy that brings you back again and again and it grows and it grows and it grows okay so anyway i had a long email come in and um today's your lucky day because i'm going to actually use this as a place i'm going to comment on it as i read okay and if i use an email i don't read the person's name and i do keep out some personal information but i want to share with the story read through it so without further ado let's get into an email i did not realize you guys would get so excited about that so i'm glad i'm on the right track there so here's the email dear brother from another mother mark i love that uh hello to my sister from another mister so it's um great to receive your email i've recently discovered your podcasts and i have been binge watching them now be careful because you might get into gesture so don't binge watch them too fast they need to be slowly marinated and slowly digested they are so awesome and i love your sense of humor thanks thanks i appreciate that see people say you know my wife says she's funny i'm funny i'm funny i know you don't have time to answer all the emails you get you probably get thousands i do hope that you will read mine though if you don't have time to answer maybe you can talk about my very unusual scrupulosity problem okay right at the jump my very unusual i've never met a person with scrupulosity that does not think theirs is unusual okay let me say that sentence again i've never met someone who doesn't think their religious ocd is unu is not that they haven't said mine's unusual everyone says it 10 out of 10 100 out of 100 say mine's very bizarre so what that does is it it really hammers in the shame and the weirdoness of i'm weird and it beats you up beats you up and then it heightens the pressure over this this is such a weird thing that anyone else you know so i told you i'll break it down break it down break it down maybe you can talk about my very unusual scrupulosity problem in a podcast sometimes maybe there are other people out there who have a similar problem even though that seems unlikely see my therapist says she has never come across a similar problem well it's like if i have an ocd issue of this this this this this sometimes we're saying have you seen this have i seen the exact detail of every single step in the same exact way you know but what we're going to get into is some heavy heavy scrupulosity and very sin responsibility sin connection even demons evil spirits the this plus this equals this yes see it all the time what you're saying here see it all the time and it's worth mentioning um because i roll up my sleeves and jump in you've said you've heard it all maybe you do have some advice for me below is a very condensed version of my life with scrupulosity there is so much more to tell but that would take a whole book to write okay um ocd stuff first i want to say this again don't feel that you have to get your whole story out in order for you to experience healing part of ocd is that we feel that we have to get every detail out it's like no no no you don't really understand and someone who's good at working at with people in ocd they just they'll ask the questions of what they need to know because the patterns all fall into same overall things now what i get into is the root system that's common to all of us but then how it happens in particular ways these areas of love nurture these addictive roots in our lives the the transitions i talk about in life and pain that we don't have a great way and the distortions the seven distortions so i recommend this to everyone who's getting counseling therapy coaching prayer help feedback whatever don't fall into the myth that you have to get your whole story out in order for you to get the help that you need and i know this because i had that and once i broke through that the help i did receive was just layer by layer because god's not needing you to get out your entire story in order for somebody to finally help you speaking of books i just ordered your book i will not fear and can't wait to read it it's great i'll pray you enjoy it you are so wise i fit all of the seven of the distortions you mentioned to a t now that's good because many still deny that they have it if you have any ocd problem you have all seven distortions all seven and all seven need to be recognized you go through them and you cycle through the seven in in in in in a nanosecond it all happens at once so i break them out and address them individually all ocd sufferers have perfectionism distortion of of how they perceive their story false responsibility the important meaning of thoughts issues of control and so forth okay difficulty with emotions okay put that if you don't know about the distortions i'll put the slide up here the struggle with uncertainty perfectionism distorted meaning of thought overestimating threats inflated responsibility intense need to control thoughts and difficulty with emotions [Music] so where am i here's my story i'm very embarrassed about having the thoughts i have there's there's the shame he said i need to be embarrassed embarrassment causes you to hide more and doesn't allow you to see what you really need to see an ocd will cause you to look at something you don't need to look at by its very nature the subject you're highlighting does not need to be examined but because of your sensitivity to uncertainty and i can take that in any area of my life i can sit here and go i'm looking at a computer screen that's certain am i looking at a computer screen is this really a computer screen am i really looking at the computer screen now you as my audience member might say mark that's silly okay we could say that about any ocd pattern because life is filled with uncertainty you could say i'm healthy am i really healthy what if i'm not healthy so uncertainty flies through our radar all day long ocd suffers take it and grab it pull it in a certain topic catches them catches their attention fear takes over with the what if and now they start the investigating and every investigation makes things worse you may feel a little bit of relief and then that hooks you into your compulsion to now stay in them right we rewind back to the beginning what's the key is that subject needs to fly on by right easier said than done mark right of course now the good news is i've been through it so it's not easier said than done it's actually the fact that i've done it so anyway so i'm very embarrassed about having the thoughts but if anyone understands it's you no i'm i'm not superman so i appreciate your comment i appreciate your confidence in me that used to get me stressed people were like i heard you do really good job and i've got this really big problem and i'm like oh and i bet i know that you could help and i heard that in one session you and i'm like the pressure i had to get delivered of that i'm just you i'm your brother from another mother everyone calm down i apologize that this email was so long i lose my place you all know that so i have to find it again but i need to tell you how my scrupulosity started and progressed all my life in order for you to understand how much despair i feel right now so i just want to let you know you you could give me none of the details you're giving me and i could still understand the despair you're in just so you know no you don't mark i got to tell you okay well i can't convince you but i'm going to read through it anyways because i'll break it down my scrupulosity started when i was a child and really became an issue when i was about 13 get ready for my confirmation in our lutheran church in germany where i grew up so there you are 13 major point in life you are in transition hormones are changing things are changing in you you're developing and so that time period is where things often erupt in our lives there's the period of puberty age i'm going to say age 11 to 13. then there's like some of those 16 18 years not that there's years that are not important but these transition years where you're moving from what we call here in america high school and you like what do you call school isn't there another name in other countries that they call it maybe this high school there's another name for it i forget i forget what it's called anyway moving from high school to college or university and you you during that time period you're you're meant to leave father and mother whether you get married or whether you're single for a bit or whatever that's a transition time then marriage transition having children transition that's where ocd starts to manifest it's in the transitions because in the turn the sharp turn you're equipping are you equipped to deal with your emotions what's your what's your environmental structure what's your training and equipping is it nurturing and comforting so you you know you're able to receive the nurture you need it's okay this was a rough time giving yourself space to work through it or for many of us it's just a crash landing so and then you there's a time of you're going through your confirmation process in the lutheran church so religion i'll continue reading religion was part of the curriculum in school so that is where i got my religious education i've always believed in and loved god and jesus so your faith grid is an important thing to understand so you're talking about being german um for many people i've worked with have german backgrounds that they can have a difficulty historically with sensitivity and emotions and there's people i work with who are from the uk and there's there's there's a lot of emphasis on um making sure that you know appearances are good and if you show weakness or emotion that's um that's that's that's not um acceptable that's not liked or sometimes they'll say well that's they could even say well that's all that's if you're being very american right now you're expressing your emotions and then over here in america there can be all sorts of different dysfunctions in how we deal with emotions and things like that so when you're working through your healing journey it's important to recognize your faith grid in how faith was cultivated in your life the foundation so the healing process is god is taking you back to the foundation not because he's wanting to like dig up your past and use it against you that's what a lot of people do that's nothing to do with that it's what was the foundation because it's about rebuilding it and many scrupulosity sufferers will go that means i wasn't saved there's the black and white thinking there's the all or nothing thinking no no no it's just it doesn't negate your salvation it's just we've got to strengthen it so in my house if i have a major foundational leak and someone comes in and says we've got to fix the foundation they don't say we have to tear your whole house down and rebuild the entire house no they're saying we just need to rebuild the foundation and that can be done they don't say you never had a house to begin with no just needs the foundation needs addressing to strengthen it and that will then affect the whole structure so your religious foundation as well as your family foundation what was father in your life because i need to teach you how to relate to heavenly father this is what jesus did in his life he said you see me you see the father everything he reflected he kept talking about dad kept talking about dad kept talking about dad for some reason modern christianity is like in a hypnosis we don't see the father we're just like yeah yeah jesus jesus because the father's awkward abba is awkward like abba means daddy that i don't call dude i couldn't even call mine some people say i can't even call my own dad daddy like how am i gonna do that with god that's that's sacrilegious right biblical biblical i actually got more kickback in all my ministry not from talking about healing inner heart healing mental health even when i talk about spiritual warfare that's controversial that's not the kickback the kickback i got is calling god father and calling him abba even though there is no scripture in the bible that says to pray to jesus there is not one scripture in the bible that says pray to jesus but what do we do hey could you pray for the food lord thank you for this day lord thank you for this day now it's not that god's going i'm not going to listen to you jesus how did you do this when you pray pray our father look at the scriptures of where it all leads to jesus always brought us back to the father and so the father image on earth is important to recognize because that's your filter to go to your father boldly before the throne of grace jesus is the way and jesus said i'm not going to pray the father for you but that's awkward for us because we don't have a healthy equipping lens of what a father is supposed to be so my faith grid and my parental grid because the father is the image the mother is the picture of nurture now this is my opinion i'm not trying to set a doctrinal standard but in my observation i find people who have a hard time receiving the comfort because that's who the holy spirit is the comfort empowerment the recovery the empowerment of the holy spirit and nurture often have mother wounds and so they they don't know how to find it the comfort from heaven is there but they don't know how to see it because it's a foreign language so it's like taking an american and dropping you into the middle of a city in china whether they speak mandarin or chinese and just figure it out now if you did that to me i wouldn't know one symbol i wouldn't know anything i would be doing a lot of miming food you know like i would be doing that because i don't i wouldn't know one word and i would i have to do i'd have to practice with little things folks just like that you've been dropped into an amazing kingdom born into it but it's a different language and ocd suffers can't handle this because the kingdom is a language of relationship grace love not law because ocd sufferers are rule followers so they gravitate towards the law all scrupulosity suffers all religious ocd servers want me to go black and white i'm about to i'm about to go black and white on you right now i'm about to bring it all ocd sufferers have the viral infestation of the law in a very heightened way and so that's important you're going to need the work of what paul talked about in galatians you've been bewitched and you're going to need you're going to need a relearning of the gospel does it mean you weren't saved when you accepted christ and you're still under law because paul didn't say that nowhere in the bible does it say go back and get re-saved it's saying re-establish the foundation foundational work yeah yeah yeah but i but i have this feeling mark right that feeling that you have is based on perfectionism i gotta get it just right so you chase that feeling you chase that feeling like a like a drug addict chases the drug i can't stop this healing i'm chasing this feeling i need the feeling to be better not nothing wrong with feelings but your feelings have been hijacked so it's going to take time to take new action the feelings are going to take a while to catch up okay let me get back religion was a part of the curriculum in school so that is where i got my religious education i've always believed in and loved god and jesus i was baptized as a baby as was the custom then and also because my parents weren't sure if i was going to survive i only weighed 3 pounds and was born at home wow my twin sister was born first and they didn't know that there was going to be a twin that's just that's a surprise right i did have the most caring and loving parents but they were also strict sometimes just were different then so i want to encourage people in their healing process don't look at your parents as all good or all evil and usually people fall into that trap like my parents were loving parents i'm not saying don't say that about your parents but i'm saying like sometimes that can be protective like they really loved me many people say this well my dad i knew he loved me he just didn't show it it's like okay it's not about it's not about throwing your parents under the bus we're not throwing stones at them we're just looking at what happened and what was needed because parents provide what they were given unless we get further help to create a new cycle in the generations so it is important to look at these father mother wounds not introspective not trying to like but let it bubble to the surface in realizing oh you know i didn't hear the words of my father say i love you that's really important um my father was there but not there that's a common thing then there's the abandonment issues there's the performance i talk about that in the book experiencing god's love as your father where i get into what kind of father did you have and some people have what i call make-believe father meaning that they created an image of it and and and that's something that they follow because they feel that looking at anything different is dishonoring look recognizing your parents faults is not dishonoring i had confirmation when i was 14. one day during that time frame i had my first thought that set me on a lifelong journey of incredible suffering the thought was so innocent at the time but i didn't know that then i thought i had committed a horrible sin and would go to hell for it so before i get into it this is where you're 14 this is where the nurture environment is important i i've already navigated layers and layers of thoughts of this kind with my kids and at the time of this recording my daughter's gonna be 11 my son's 13. so it's i've already we've already discussed at many many layers these kind of like troubling thoughts they're brought to the surface we practice that nurturing response helping bring healthy assurance you're okay so that then they can practice it for themselves so that's really what happened here because where you go with it you follow the whole ocd thing as a way of finding safety but it's not safety it's it leads you into a trap and then your focus becomes solving the riddle of the thought and and ocd will never experience healing solving the riddle of the thought if you think you've committed the unpardonable sin and you go to unpardonable sin dot dot org and research it it will never solve it because that's not the problem the problem isn't the problem i thought i committed a horrible sin and would go to hell for it the thought was this wouldn't it be good to have some item that used to belong to jesus or something like that it's it's kind of uh it's it's it's normal as kids we come up with thoughts that don't like like that have uh maybe odd connections now i will say to this day to this day i have thoughts that i'm like i'm working through and sometimes what i need to do is just put the thought on the table and in relationship find healthy feedback it's like i joke where i'll share something with my wife that's what i'm thinking and she's like ah that ain't right or maybe like her response to me and we're like i'm like no this isn't what and and we're not communicating right it's a sign to me i've got some combobulated thoughts let me just reset and let this float on by okay that's where relationships take cues from your relationships and people are like don't take it personal take it as informational to i've used it as and that's and that's helped heal mental health battles i didn't tell anybody about it i suffered in silence for years right that's where most children when they don't have an environment to share you you end up staying in a place of torment because kids will naturally often default to hiding these kind of things your kids want to hide stuff all the time all the time but we have to keep emphasizing the graciousness of safety because there's things within their thoughts that still tell them you got to hide no you're gonna get punished and no it's gonna be terrible somehow i got i suffered in silence i thought i was gonna go to hell for that so that automatically tells me there's a performance heavy legalism emphasis in your faith grid because it's like just the appearance of a thought sends you to hell it's it's the intensity of the black and white it's the intensity of that and ocd sufferers don't know how to differentiate between a thought that's appearing and a thought that is a part of their value system and so i pay attention to what i'm saying here because so if you're if you fall asleep wake up wake up wake up if you're sleeping to mark the jesus videos wake up wake up wake up cause i want you to hear this why am i snapping at the camera i don't know ocd is most problematic in the areas that you value the most so you value integrity salvation sexual purity right having pure thoughts but you haven't been loved and nurtured in them so those areas become pressurized by i gotta do this right and anything under pressure like that won't be as fruitful so if you're spinning about going to hell going to heaven is very important to you right and so people come to me say mark what if i'm a sexual deviant because i have these thoughts and i'll say you're not and they go how do you know because i go sex sexual deviants have no empathy no remorse you actually coming forward it bothers these kind of things bother you now i'm not encouraging do you live constantly bothered because you're at a you're at the opposite end where it's it's become a neurotic kind of tendency i'm gonna do a video by the way are you neurotic because i think that could be helpful for people they might be insulted at first but that be helpful because there is a neurotic tendency to ocd it makes you very hypersensitive to subjects and thoughts that you don't need to be and your nervous system becomes trained to hyper vigilantly examine certain things at a heightened level and that that neuroticism needs needs healing of and the main thing is nurture and i'll get into that in a video so let me go back to going to hell somehow i got over at some point i grew up and married an american soldier in 1970 and we moved to the u.s and i was okay for a while after our daughter was born in 1971 i started having strange thoughts about religious things again after our daughter was born in 1971 do you see that so here's the transition you moved you're moving from was it germany to the united states right big move that's not like okay it's in those moves that lot of changes uncertainty rises you get married uncertainty rises you have a child uncertainty's maximum right and many of you living during the times we're living in increasing uncertainties like your uncertainty levels are rising and you're trying to solve that uncertainty right it's like i feel it here i feel it you know i could know where what's coming next without even reading the next thing i started having strange thoughts about religious things again it's like the self-sabotaging thing starts to rise up i don't remember exactly what they were about i saw a therapist and i was put on medicines that had awful side effects sorry about that sorry to hear that that's very common thing with with with medication and we're not meant for people with ocd but with schizophrenia now i'm not a doctor i'm not i'm not a psychiatrist so i'm just sharing observation it does seem that a lot of people can get diagnosed with schizophrenia which is really it's ocd i'm not i'm not saying that as like a across the board just as an observation because schizophrenia is not multiple personalities sometimes people confuse that there are certain thought patterns that they are hearing as though they are hearing it from someone and it distorts their reality ocd has a nature of intrusive thoughts okay that come in that are disturbing so there's kind of some similarities of it and i think that the healing pathway of ocd actually is very beneficial for everyone because it teaches us to learn how to be unconditionally loved learn how to let go of perfectionism learn how to invite the loving faith hope and love story into our lives calm our hearts with nurture you know break through fear factors i think this is this isn't just for my obsessive compulsive brothers and sisters this is for everybody i get it i know i know because i hear you guys saying it but mark when you're diagnosed with ocd it's different okay i got you but i i find my conviction is in my learning of mental health i have said it every step of the way everybody needs this this this isn't just for an isolated group of people i had no clue there was such a thing as ocd until i was in my 50s so what so that what year would that be in your 50s well i think you said you're 72 so that would put it you know like 20 20 years ago yeah so the same here same here i i don't i don't i think it was actually later for me that i realized it was ocd so i get that i saw my battles primarily from an anxiety standpoint i in 1976 we moved to italy there's another move you're moving man there's a lot happening here i suffered from unwanted religious thoughts the entire three years we lived there right and i bet there's zero support for that it's like just stop thinking that way just stop thinking that way or you got a demon let's get the demon out let's get the demon out that's because now you're obsessing about demons right the thoughts were all were there all day long every day i felt guilty about shopping for clothes and when i saw something i wanted to buy i would have a bad thought about jesus because of the part in the bible that says we should give away everything we own and follow him that's a distortion that's a great example of a distortion it's taking something out of the bible literally pulling it out right the bible doesn't say we should all give away everything we own and follow him see the distortion he did tell somebody sell everything you have the church in acts at a certain time all mutually decided as an act of love we're going to bring our stuff and we're going to we're going to distribute it there's such a high which there should be a high level for helping the poor and being aware of those who are in need right but the distortion comes out the bible says we should give away everything and follow him um not necessarily we didn't have much money in those days and i didn't buy anything expensive i ordered clothes from american catalogs because there were no stores in the village we lived in and i didn't drive one day when i wanted to order again i had another bad thought and made a vow to never order clothes from catalogs again i have kept that vow all this time since the 70s so there's a there's a bunch of things i can address here one is that you're going through a stressful time in transition and a stressful time financially i found the intrusive challenging emotional world of thoughts in my most difficult financial days the thought patterns kicked up the worst the inner critic rises up everything starts to starts to really really fired up what you needed during that time was comfort and what rose up was fear and guilt and so the guilt comes in and none of this is from god this isn't from god you had a condemning guilt come to you about making you feel bad i've had this so so many times i remember buying a dvd player i told this story i bought a dvd player and i had a thought the lord doesn't want you to buy the dvd player so i'm sitting there in my living room and going i'm like okay i should probably put all this stuff back in the box and take it back right and because i'm tormented i was against god's will and it's a distortion it's a distortion out of that guilt so then you make a vow out of the guilt and then you take the vow scripture from what is it ecclesiastes if you make a vow you must make sure you you you you fulfill it many ocd sufferers have this vow connection you think you accidentally made a vow you made a vow and you didn't keep it and so it keeps you in this restriction kind of thing where you're going to go to hell if you break that vow again that's under law you can't you can't keep the fulfillment of the law you can't you failed you failed so you say we say why kept the vow well the bible says if you follow the law you've got to follow all of it so you might go well i fulfilled this vow no you're still guilty of all of it now i know interpretation gets gets so far off the rails right now that people could be like oh that's he say i'm going to hell no what i'm saying is you're carrying a yoke you don't need to carry and what it's doing is it's it's inflaming self-hatred for you to hate yourself it's inflaming a self um a a sense of penance i am punishing myself for this so right now you know what my advice would be i'm going to tell you the scariest thing in the world for you to do go buy some clothes from from an american catalog [Laughter] i'm laughing because i know what it'll do strike fear all right one day when i wanted to order again see what it's now doing is any any desire you had i'm speaking from experience here any desire you have no god doesn't want that this annihilated so much of my life hey i really think i'd like to do that as a career no god don't want that give it up hey i like this i like this young lady i'd like to date her nope that means god doesn't want it do you know how tormenting that is until i had to relearn who god was and i actually had to starve some of those really nasty compulsions go buy something go buy something nice buy something nice for yourself you want you want you want you want you want to see all of hell kick up go buy something nice for all that self-rejecting and self-hate and all that stuff that kicks up and rises up doesn't you're you you know you're because if there's an unworthiness that you're not worth being loved and unconditional love is so foreign i don't want to buy any clothes online either because similar it's similar to buying from a catalog i had no idea that we were supposed to make vows to god at that time again it's it's a distortion because in the new covenant yes vows are important to understand sure but ocd sufferers don't know the difference between a real vowel and something that they just said and they realize you know i didn't know what i was saying they they don't know the difference but regardless whether you said it or whether you committed it it's like someone who made the vow of marriage and they get a divorce are they finished for life now any thought that doesn't allow god to have a redeeming moment right now is is is a thought that's not from god that's why the unpardonable sin trap is is that people fall into is not of god i think i've committed okay just the fact that you're worried you committed it and i know you haven't committed it why it's the same thing as a sexual deviant because people have committed that don't care that they have that's what it because those kind of things are willful long life never-ending rejection of the work of the holy spirit to do what to bring an awakening to their need for a savior they have lifelong rejected that many ocd sufferers go uh maybe it's me no it's not because you're bringing it up and i don't even you know i know i say these in simple terms i know this is very torment i understand it but i want to reveal stuff that we're following that we don't need to follow because god is redemptive and your theology must make room for what god can do right now now is the day of salvation now is the day of god's work so if i go i'm trapped there's no options nothing works that's a lie if i go i've tried everything no you haven't that's impossible right our theology must make room for today is a new day new morning this is the day the lord has made his mercy is new every morning he is here he is here right now get the band playing he is here right now those of you from the 90s you know what i'm talking about we don't need to wait and we don't need to beg for he's passing out gifts for all to receive except for me because i committed the unpardonable sin and i don't confess my sins and i'm not worthy and he's here right now to meet every need so wow praise y'all know that song if you don't know that song you missed out you miss out on the good old you know we moved from the hymnals to then the projector up on the screen with the what'd they call that overhead projector with the little thing and the person had to stand there and change them right and they said we're going to sing a chorus today you know we went from come thou fount of every blessing to thy heart to sing thy grace then you didn't need a hymn no because the the song we were singing had one line it was i exalt thee you didn't even really need to look at it you just sing that over and over again remember those days i shall return back to the subject in 1979 my husband got orders to move to hiddleburg germany hope i said that right hiddleberg this made me very happy and something weird happened dun dun my ocd thoughts had been so relentless in my brain that once i found out we were moving and that was a joyful thing for me here's the sucking the joy out of the room i could physically feel something happening in the frontal lobe of my brain i tell you what when joy leaves when joy gets removed i probably feel some pain in my frontal lobe too it was like something heavy kept peeling off you did say that the brain has neuroplasticity and i've also read about that in ocd books and what i mean by that is the brain has the ability to form new pathways so you could say oh i'm all messed up well even if that's true your brain has the ability to be renewed i've read almost every book ever written on ocd after we moved to germany i started to feel a little better since i was able to spend time with my family again ah because what you needed was nurture not fixing all your christian issues you just needed nurture you need someone to just love you to go you're not crazy well we're all crazy to a certain level we're all weirdos to a certain level we're all goofy in certain areas of my life i'm goofy you're goofy crackpot people we're all trying to figure this out i'm tired of people acting like they don't have any issues it's annoying they just hide them better than everybody else okay anyways get away from that rant i started working for okay i was able to spend time with my family again i started working for the us army as a civilian i was still bothered by some thought so i looked for the bible for some impor inspiration and i came across the part that talks about here we go the unpardonable sin and of course like every strooper scruper is that we should call this a person with scrupulosity a scruper i think you have a little scruper it's a little scrubber going on over here he's running back and forth a little scraper i latched on to that and i thought that thinking something bad about jesus and the holy spirit was the same as saying him no it's not true it's not true thought action fusion is an ocd battle we take a thought we match it with i did it because i thought it and then we get distorted on scriptures whereas jesus says if you look at a woman with lust in your heart you've already committed adultery so there's this there's this disconnect between thoughts that pass that just need to pass through and what's what's really um thoughts that that are a part of our belief system is there's a major distortion and so um i it's like it's like we treat the unpardonable sin it's like something we'd like tripped over like oh my goodness i committed the imperial sin like i mean if if if if that's the case we're all in trouble because we all trip and fall we all have our moments grace we need grace father pour out your grace help us to know this is not about our effort and us fixing it's our need for your love we are manifesting these battles the more intense they get the more intense it's revealing our need for your love father use my words and and let them season the hearts of people and let other people get it and share it with others you need the nurturing of god his comfort but you have to learn what comfort is and we'll have to starve these subjects because they've taken over our resonance i could not stop the thoughts right because you say stop stop stop stop stop stop thinking and you invoke the law so it just keeps happening and i could i could i think you mean i could not stop myself from speaking the words oh you see no i i could not stop the thoughts but i could stop myself from speaking the words however that did not come for me right because it's like putting a muzzle on yourself or putting this like you're putting yourself in a straight jacket and that makes it worse don't think it okay i'm not gonna i can't stop thinking it okay don't say it don't say it well i at least i can hold my mouth i think i'm gonna say it i think i'm gonna say it and i'm acting out what i've felt where i was like scared of saying it i'm gonna say it and then we get distorted on words you know like out of the out of the mouth comes life blessings and cursings a life and death right but it's very black and white and there's no room for like like processing out we need to with our words the bible says confess your trespasses one to another what does that mean it means talking out our journey of what we're working through he says that you may be healed healing often comes out in healthy discussion and i know we can get into guilt confession syndrome and all that kind of stuff too and and you recognize that and realize so it's it's learning to ground ourselves because with the distortions throw us off track and these distortions are super important i got them up on the screen here but now i know i don't need to worry about this anymore after done lots of research working and being around people during the day somehow helped me to survive yes ocd suffers if you have jobs that um where you're sitting at a desk by yourself or you're you have very mindless kind of things that can be somewhat troublesome because then you can get in your head you need to find things that in fact the work i've done over the years has helped me i do one-on-ones or i'm talking about issues it gets me out of myself and into someone else's world and it's healthy for me so that um i'm not just if i was sitting all day long just kind of staring at myself and i could get in some real ditches so i think being around people is a good thing for you and i would say that to this day i have a hard time getting any sleep and one night out of desperation after not sleeping for three nights after not sleeping for three nights okay just two nights of bad sleep studies have shown you are equal to someone who's drunk as far as like the effect okay three nights massive toll one night of bad sleep can massively hit your your your your mental health and emotional health three nights of terrible sleep i took some nyqual i took some nyquil sorry called it nyqual nyquil nyquil will help you get to help you what does that sound like well we'll help you get your z's or something like that [Music] i took some nyquil since it has some alcohol in it i'm a tea totaler i'm a tea tottler since that means you don't drink alcohol right yeah um took some nyquil since it had some alcohol in it i'm a tea i can sense these strict rules that you that you have stringent like okay i will never drink alcohol but i'll do some nyquil took a hot bath went to bed you probably just needed the hot bath and you need to tell yourself i've had really bad nights of sleep i need to be kind to myself i slept for two or three hours then i woke up suddenly and heard a voice in my head saying and said her name dies at the age of 39. so we we have to understand you're sleep deprived you're sleep deprived if you get sleep deprived listen all the moms out there that just had babies and they're up all hours uh you you're you start to feel like you're going crazy and you start to feel like the devil himself is walking around in your bedroom that like satan himself said to the whole demonic kingdom you guys keep working i'm going to her house that's what it feels like just sleep depress deprivation we gotta see ocd stuff first you gotta get to perspective otherwise it gets off the rails so you're 37 at the time and you hear a thought that says there's like a news headline so and so your name dies at 39 right is that the devil i'm gonna tell you no it's sleep deprivation sleep deprivation sounds like the devil you were meant to have a good amount of sleep every night god made you and when you don't the transistors people people say to me all the time i can't believe i think i have psychosis i have an altered reality i live in mark i'm a mess yeah what's going on well i haven't slept for five days five five days you get me sleep deprived for five days i'll be coming on the air going i'm i'm dark me jesus and and i'm gonna i'm gonna tell you i'd forget that i wouldn't even make it to the live stream what you need is sleep to this day i'm baffled about what happened i'm not not baffled at all sister you were sleep deprived that's what happened you needed sleep you got a lot going on you need sleep lots of it those of you mothers who had children you need lots of sleep and and for some of you like my wife we went through with our son having sleep issues for a good eight years we're still he's 13 we're still establishing new sleep patterns it's important be kind to yourself see the intensity and the the beating self up i hope it wasn't the devil or a demon i mean if it was the devil here's what i say the devil is doing fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear fear that fear that spirit of fear and then that condemnation gets you stressed out and then beating you up later for how you're acting when stressed out i have a horrendous fear of the devil and want nothing to do with him and that's i i talk about fear of evil a lot of spiritual warfare concepts are based on a fear of evil and and superstition uh if i could speak freely raise my hand for a second permission to speak free speak freely people who have faith origins in catholicism even in protestant pentecostal charismatic circles can be very superstitious about satan and the devil and evil spirits some of my charismatic friends they talk about getting smudged like what you got smudge what do you mean well i feel depressive thoughts and i think it was because i walked past a lady who she had depression okay a superstition so we have a lot of superstition so then ocd suffers are very superstitious oh i had that thought so this i gotta spin around three times and maybe i should do we get very superstitious not biblical but they say in ways that sound biblical but it's very superstitious and so just saying you have a lutheran background there's there's some kinds of things with catechisms and things like that and it's like if you have a mindset like sprinkle this do that get superstitious it's formed by a fear of evil and and the deliverance people get furious no we're casting out the devils no you're telling them they gotta pray fifteen thousand prayers and that they gotta like spin around three times make sure you do a cleansing prayer after the cleansing prayer do a rewashing prayer and after the rewashing prayer do the generational cleansing prayer this is getting law folks and the devil loves this now deliverance is real it's legit spiritual warfare is legit he walks about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour but you can't fight him with the law and it's aggravating what we're doing to christians getting them trapped in another system you know there's those in christianity that don't have any room for the enemy in their in their vocabulary and they're in their grid so they blame themselves for everything and that the enemy loves that just beat yourself up all day long and i'm not saying blame it on the devil and don't take responsibility either that's it's always about like groundedness groundedness we sometimes we take one thought we go into another extreme and then there's there's those who have a grid for deliverance they get off the rails and it becomes the only subject and everything's a demon every and so we lose relational work so is there times for deliverance yeah i've seen plenty of it practice it but it's not a light switch it's not a light switch it doesn't solve all your problems i think we miss out when we look at the the the incidences in scripture of what people's lives were like after the moment we don't see that we don't see their life up to that moment we don't see the life after that moment so we don't take in the journey we just see the the moment and we want that spectacle we want that moment to happen so there's a lot of fear of evil here ocd suffers you have to learn how to practice breaking through the fear of evil the fear of sin sin the sin but being afraid of it in a anxiety-ridden way will not serve your journey that's why exposure therapy is helpful because it causes you to face the fear and statistically they're showing it's like there's like a 80 something success rate in it when people apply it so somehow in some conceptual way we have to face the fear to expose the lies of it to to face it at different levels well it doesn't work for me okay i can't force that on you i can't force you to believe and have hope i can't argue with you those people who write to me debating i'm not debating people i'm coaching i'm not debating not debating i gave up i got delivered from that i got delivered from arguing i used to argue a lot i've read so many books on the devil sorry let me go back i hope it wasn't a devil or demon i have a horrendous fear of the devil and want nothing to do with him but he seems to be what is now bothering me the most right you don't have to be afraid of him you know what's the best advice i got into like doing more one-on-one like work that had deliverance aspects to it you know the best advice i got best advice i got and i didn't realize this until later on best advice i got whatever you do mark just don't be afraid and that cut against a lot of other advice i heard from people like you got to be careful you got to be and it's like of course like you know walk around as fools but a lot of advice we give is fear-based i'll fear no evil one of my um one of our partners wrote to me in the psalm 23 gave me great feedback in studying psalm 23 says i will i will fear no evil means i will give no reverence to evil woo that's good that's good dan when you wrote that to me that was good it was good i was like oh we give that reverence we give that reverence to fear like this ominous thing no god must be greater than all let god arise and let his enemies be chumps who scatter he is a defeated foe i'm all worked up now i have a horrendous fear of the devil want nothing to do with him but he seems to be what is now bothering me the most yeah because if you're afraid of him it gives him the upper hand that's what gives the bully an upper hand all the time i've read so many books about the devil and spent hours and hours online looking at what the powers of the devil are okay you've done enough of that you need you need an immersion in the love of the father and the grace of our lord jesus christ and the identity you have as a daughter you need your father in heaven to go i got you my daughter i got you greater is he greater is he you're an overcomer don't be afraid don't be afraid do not be afraid do not be afraid why did god say 300 and sometimes don't be afraid meanwhile we're afraid right because he had to repeat himself a lot um i spent hours and hours looking online what the powers of the devil are but there seems to be conflicting information i thought that jesus completely defeated the devil on the cross and the devil cannot do anything without god's permission and that he cannot attack a christian but not everyone seems to agree on anything like that yeah well what happens is we get into i think fruitless arguments about can a christian be possessed completely by the devil is that my only option [Laughter] like what i notice in christians is like i am fruitful fruit from this area but in this area [Music] right um it's probably under the influence of the enemy somewhere what's the devil evil spirits we're talking about thoughts who's influencing our thoughts spiritual warfare all comes down to what thoughts are you listening to and giving attention to for ocd sufferers they are they are heightened at listening to accusation and fear so they go beyond even just everyday fears and they go into fears of the what-ifs of the what-ifs they go into a very very deep territory and very accusatory so they argue with the accuser when you argue with the accuser he always wins because what's the devil arguing with the law he's the prosecutor you ever try arguing with a good prosecutor you never win they always get an answer like on social media and news and politics that's how everybody interacts right no matter what there's always a reply always a reply always a reply so you gotta change the basis of what you're living like you're a sinner yeah sure destined for hell yeah i am not going to hell i am not yeah yeah i'm a whole different i'm gonna hold i'm in a whole different area over here it's not by my efforts what he did for me you see him you got all these things you have these mistakes yep right what am i doing i'm exposing myself facing and actually just facing it and and allowing agreeing with it ship but not feeding it what we do in ocds we defend ourselves and we we got to come up with all these arguments yep got those problems got those things yep but i'm i'm not in your lane anymore it's not my basis anymore he did it for me and i and i'm loved every moment every second of the day not based on anything i did see i'm changing the channel of the whole discussion to break through ocd you have to change the whole channel of the discussion you can't sit there and fight back now i am saved because i said the sinner's prayer and i did this and i and you throw scriptures back and you can do that to an extent jesus fought back with scriptures but he can't keep going and going and going going it's like it's written man shall not live by bread alone by every mover that exceeds the mouth of god okay we're moving on oc suffers good keep going in it for years there's there's not a whole lot of information about that in the bible i do try to talk about it in my resources you can check it out try to make it plain and simple for years i have avoided the bible since i have this uncanny knack that whenever i randomly open a page in the word hell or satan always jumps out of me so i stopped reading it right because hell and satan are fearful words for you so in many ways you have to allow yourself when you see those words to just let them pass on by your anxiety rises up and you've got to ride the roller coaster of it to come down to greater peace and then you practice it again the next time the word it doesn't mean you obsessively go look at it it's just when it pops up you just let it float on by but for you you said you stopped reading it that's the avoidance that we fall into with ocd i did just buy myself a new bible last week and i plan to read it from cover to cover don't that's too much it's too much this cover to cover you you got too much pressure on you sister you chill out read what is helping you right now to be loved to be resting in his love to to understand his grace and how he feels about you and connect to that read in john or first john or romans 8 or wherever wherever it's like it's the stay in those areas that empower you now is not the time to get you know we started the bible in genesis and it's like genesis is like the wild west man crazy lying you know deceptive you know it's all over the place god still uses them you get into leviticus and you're like you're like pinned against the wall with that you know it's got to be in context of the greater picture otherwise otherwise we lose we lose context and ocd sufferers do not have context so you anyway i suffered in silence i was too embarrassed talk to my family about it my husband did not know and he was always very patient with me he's a good person but unfortunately he was an alcoholic okay so you got a lot of emotional factors that you're not allowing yourself to take into consideration to be patient with yourself now to the worst part right this is what we do in ocd we build up we build up this is the as if this wasn't bad enough mark i'm gonna tell you this would be what a lot of times people do okay i'm gonna share something with you are you are you ready here's a specific information now i will have to breeze through this because i do have a meeting coming up that i got to get to so i only have so much time left but i'm diving here's a specific information i'm so ashamed i'm so embarrassed here comes the shame build up shame build up had to find a deal with it because i have no more joy in my life i don't even listen to music anymore which i love so much go back and listen to music you need to start listening to music again we got to face these things on this specific date she tells me this and she asked me to leave this out so i'm going to leave this out but i will say you leaving this out is following your compulsion that there's some mag there's some spell to what you did that is involved with this but i'll meet you where you at and i won't say the flight or the date or anything like that but there was basically an airplane that crashed and people died and she writes i blame myself for it so my thought was like were you flying the plane and everyone died and you're getting out okay no the night before i was home alone my husband was in the hospital after having surgery okay your stress levels are high a lot going on here so ocd's gonna knock i just i know it i worked on my computer and saw a lipstick i really wanted to buy so here we have your you're buying from a catalog coming in and it's going to add a new one to it to build on it right i wanted it so much i felt guilty for wanting it and the thought popped into my mind that my soul would belong to the devil if i bought it here's the distortion look at number three distorted meaning of thoughts number four un overestimating threats i'm going to hell if i do this number five inflated responsibility i am responsible right now so this is a setup this is a setup for your next thought to then just beat you to a pulp okay i thought um i thought popped in my mind that my soul belonged to the devil if i bought it no not gonna happen nope at that moment i had a sharp pain in my right side and i thought it was from the devil there's the superstition okay i have a pain it could be it could be just you had some you had some really good like what's a good german food um oh what's it called he could have just had some had some gastrointestinal pain right but you have this very superstitious connection with the devil and a fear of the enemy if this the devil okay i did an evil spirit did this becomes we become neurotic about the devil right we have an enemy we have a devil we don't need to be obsessed about him okay i thought yeah i fought for a long time that night to tell myself that it was just a coincidence but my ocd would not let me get away with that so you were arguing with the thought and what we often need is a redirect to a whole new subject now that takes time and energy because it's like you redirect but then you have the thought kind of still talking but you just keep walking the new path walking the new path but you have trouble with sleeping already and so you know you're gonna you're gonna yeah because you say i had the worst night in my life thoughts of the devil haunted me all night long it does seem like a pattern of sleep issues you've had too where like fear ramps up your cortisol levels which are your fight or flight they rise up at night which instead they're supposed to go down and cortisol is at its highest in the morning when you wake up to start your day because it's it's engaged there to help us move and take on the day and then over the day it drops and at night you get sleepy and tired melatonin rises and for most people and stress responses the reverse happens melatonin is not rising cortisol is heightened and then you can't sleep because of usually things that are disturbance that we're not able to just let god love us and we solve it by trying to fix it so our minds are spinning all the time so anyways i was so scared i freaked out i thought i was possessed there's your black and white i'm possessed the king james didn't do us a good favor by translating those evil spirit moments as possession it really means to be under the influence of but king jimmy had to have his crew make it possession so that's all we think of now we think of demons either all of you and you're or nothing so that's how christians debate about it today it's either you're possessed or you're never ever it's a it's not a helpful argument i had the worst night of my life lots of devil haunted me all light long i tossed and turned in my bed then i got up and saw that the cross on my necklace which i never take off was lying on the floor after that i totally freaked out that's superstition and fear of evil right because it's like something happened oh i it happened at the same time i took this bottle cap and and it hit off of the bottle i'm not trying to make fun i'm just saying that if if we have a superstition we look for and what you look for you'll find so we we long to as humans look to make connections to things cause and effect we our brain wants a plus b equals c because then we can put it in nice compartment the problem is that life isn't that simple which uh okay so you're freaked out about the the cross um there's nothing special about the cross that that there's no superpower in the cross you were around your neck is that is that right that i can be honest there's no power in any object you know and even if even if the apostles handed a handkerchief the handkerchief isn't the power it's the expression of faith activity that works through it so if you have a cross in your room that cross has no power but it's a reminder of the work of the cross symbols are just reminders how many power okay totally freaked out to this day i don't know how that could have happened the chain was flimsy but the cross was soldered on well it had come off so now you know you're spinning about that i spent the rest of the night with horrible thoughts in my head and then i had a thought that ruined my life forever i asked the devil to let a plane crash i don't know where that thought came from and why you're you're you're you're sleep deprived and you're under the torment of superstition and fear anybody else would probably have similar thoughts too but for you you have a propensity to ocd so you grabbed onto that thought i don't know where that thought came from and why the next morning i watched the news on tv and there had been no plane crash right so didn't solve it notice it didn't solve it because right then and there could have made a connection of okay you know but even if it did no we are not life does not hang on your shoulders no one hang life hangs on shoulders like that now if you're flying the plane and you're stressed out i can understand that you're the pilot but what pilots do they're trained they're trained so that it minimizes that kind of anxiety right i watched the news have been no clean cash but when i watched the news again in the evening i heard about that crash of this plane the significant plane crash so your mind was looking for it to fill in that gap so here's what i'll tell you if there was no plane crash that night but there was one next week you would have latched on to that one if there was no plane crash next week but there was one a month later you would have latched on to that one no i wouldn't yes you would have did i know how this works it was looking the obsession was looking the intrusive thought was looking for a connection to validate it to then create a truth and it's not truth to lie it's the distortion every distortion is here perfectionism you have to have your thoughts so perfect because if you don't major consequences number two struggle with uncertainty i don't know is there a plane crashing is there something happening now you're spinning about something you don't need to and your sleep deprived and under a lot of stress and under a lot of transitions you've been going through in life distorted meaning of the thoughts comes in now you're overestimating the threat as though you are as though you are god that everything weighs upon you an inflated sense of responsibility is there so you have an intense need to control your thoughts and now number seven you have difficulty with your emotions because you connect your actions or lack thereof with a tragedy that happened now many of you struggle with this now do you struggle with you said a word that you think caused a plane crash maybe or maybe not it doesn't matter but you have some sort of cause and effect at that deep level deep way in in a very distorted way so i spent the next few months in torment with thoughts about the devil in the plane and my life was a living hell i finally broke down and told my husband about it of course he couldn't help me i got up one night and walked over to the military hospital across the street i told them i felt possessed and they called in a psychiatrist who was on duty that night yeah anytime you tell people i think that i did anything you say to people where you go the deviled uh possessed unpardonable they're gonna go and they're gonna call over person with the clipboard they're gonna that's that's how they're gonna naturally deal with these things i told them i was possessed they called psychiatrists on duty that night i don't remember our exact conversation but that was the first time i ever heard about ocd until then i had no idea what was wrong with me the psychiatrist gave me 10 milligrams of valium and a prescription for paxil and one for lorazepam the raza pam's the one that's often for ocd right yeah sometimes yeah for anxiety too because i think you mentioned was the one that you there's another name i think you gave i don't remember maybe i'm mixing up another story anyways but yeah razipam can treat seizure disorder such as epilepsy can also use before surgery and medical procedures to relieve anxiety can cause paranoid or suicidal ideation impairment memory judgment coordination combining with other substances can yeah it's in the same category as ativan okay so they're they're trying to really just help you to get get calmed down i slept well for the first time in months that's what you really needed for sure the therapist told me i'd that had nothing to do with the plane crash and mark dejesus fully agrees with that fully confidently as i know my name and i know that my last name is dejesus i know i'm i'm maybe maybe my opinion is bigger because i'm of jesus de jesus making a joke making a joke everybody calm down she explained to me there was a lapse in time between the time i thought when the plane crashed somehow i was able to live with that at the time being possessed was my bigger fear paxil made me sick yeah unfortunately mental health medication can have side effects and some of those can increase some of these other problems that we're hoping it will alleviate so the psychiatrist put me on prozac prozac worked wonders for me not the generic version and the therapy worked also as a few years i felt better and when my therapist left to move back to the states i was ready to live without therapy um i would encourage not just dropping you know the therapy because it's good to just stay in touch keep you know keep some kind of process going but anyways i kept taking the lorazepam and by then the generic version of prozac in 2005 my husband and i moved back to the states north carolina north carolina because our daughter asked us to help her with her four-year-old daughter since her husband kept getting deployed to iraq and afghanistan six times that's a lot that's a lot going on there a lot of stuff going on the family but that's awesome that you want to be near your daughter i quit my job left all my friends and family behind and we moved to north carolina that's a lot quit my job left all my friends and family behind that's a lot of emotional change i'm feeling like the ocd's about to rise up again i tried to find another job but could not find one in my career field in grade and i was not i was but i was able to get early retirement high five we had some really good years i stopped taking the prozac but i'm still taking lorazepam now since i am by now addicted to it then one day my world came crashing down again a good friend of ours shot himself that's awful that's awful again painful things and ocd sufferers have a hard time processing pain they look at fixing their emotions being better doing good making sure you act the right way so they never actually deal with healing of grief and emotions they don't grieve through things they give themselves no room i went to the viewing in the funeral a few days later i could not get the plane crash out of my mind again so there's the intrusive thoughts you're in pain so you're vulnerable when we're in pain and struggling we're vulnerable to intrusive thoughts you have fear some fear of evil superstition sleep deprivation heavy transitions pain someone just killed themselves those are the moments where then what we call the crazies sometimes crazy thoughts or intrusive thoughts come in vulnerable i kept remembering so i could not get the plane crash out of my mind start ruminating day and night i kept remembering that night and to this day cannot get rid of the guilt it does seem that a lot of your journey has a blanket of guilt over it so i talk a lot about guilt detoxing guilt getting guilt out of your life i hope to write a book someday about getting off the guilt trip lord willing creek don't rise i'm seeing a therapist but she's at her wit's end because she she's at her with him because she's tried for so many years to help me and i keep sliding backwards okay can i look at that statement my therapist at it was at a width end don't if we can let's not take that as a oh they're mad at me i'm so terrible why is someone at their wit's end there's something i'm not taking in that i need to take in ocd suffers can we when you're going to i went to this therapist and they they got aggravated with me okay can i take that in as helpful information there might be something i'm not listening to i need to take in because for many i have to go i can't i can't keep feeding your your subjects or i'll tell people you're on your cocaine right now you know you're on your your drug like a drug addict okay i'm seeing a therapist she's at her wit's end okay i was on luvox that's it that's it that's it the luvox that's um that one's more in the yeah ssri that's often used to treat obsessive compulsive that's it i was on lube walks for a while and i got a little better now i'm on flu fluvoxamine but i plan to wean myself off it since it made me gain a lot of weight which just adds to my depression for sure yeah it is a common side effect you can even sometimes see it in people's faces they start to bloat a bit my therapist is from a faith-based organization but she does not suffer from ocd now just because they don't suffer from ocd doesn't mean they can't help i know it helps that hearing from somebody's been through it but don't limit because that can be limiting no you don't understand because you didn't actually go through it and then it's like well they did go through ocd well they don't they didn't go through the ocd i went through see where this can just keep spinning i don't know if she can imagine what it feels like she tells me that even if i'd never been even if i've never been born the plane would still have crashed that day correct yes right i want so badly to believe that but the guilt is so deeply buried in my subconscious yeah it's going to take time because it's it's deeply in your conditioning because you see a lot of your life through guilt and guilt's not of god it's not of god there is the nature of this is so um god doesn't leave you trapped in something everything he does is redemptive so you have to understand how that influences things so so important okay so i gotta get this close i just realized i got a meeting in just a moment so i'm gonna read this through i may have to go in just a second the odds of what happened were just so astronomical but it did happen you've got the situation so built up and you have it ironclad so no matter what anybody says they're not gonna be able to convince you you have to come to a conclusion yourself that this is a distorted pathway i understand that god loves us but it's a fact that the plane crashed and all those people died they were mostly germans going to south america most germans are christians can the devil make a plane crash and if it wasn't him why did god allow the plane to crash there's a lot of distortions here okay that you know the devil things happen we don't make room for things just happening accidents happening and and then okay god allowed it as though god was going there's a plane crashing i'm not going to do anything um it doesn't make an understanding for our life and accidents and things that happen um that's a whole other subject that that's that is the point i can't get over i've done so much rumination reassurance seeking looking online what the powers of the devil are and jesus did completely did defeat the devil on the cross but there are so many different viewpoints none of what you're sharing here is about the unconditional love and grace of god it's all about figuring out the formula to get just the right belief my therapist thinks i'm being stubborn you need to you need to take that in ocd sufferers are very stubborn they're very stubborn in their their case their story and when you try to mess with their stories like yeah but yeah but yeah but and it is that's that stubbornness will get in the way i want to keep believing that i'm guilty yeah that's that's so un anti what god would want for you because then you won't receive forgiveness you won't receive love you won't receive what god has for you i want nothing in this world more than to be rid of the guilt and know that it was all just a coincidence but what a coincidence it's not even a coincidence because people have intrusive thoughts all the time we could take those and connect them to all kinds of events all around the world my therapist says that god's forgiven me i agree but i cannot forgive myself nailed it so what you need is you need an understanding of how to love yourself the way that god loves you all ocd sufferers do not love themselves the way that god loves them and that's what you need your problem is not the problem it's a love issue i've suffered from what is considered a tender conscience and can never intentionally hurt somebody i would call that sensitivity hypersensitivity we could even call it neuroticism i'm gonna do a thing on are you neurotic so stay tuned and it's okay we many of us have different levels of that i'm sorry this is so long but i'm now 72 years old and would like to have a few more years without mental torment please help if you do have some insights have you ever met someone else who has had a similar problem my husband died from malpractice like sister you have been through a lot of painful stuff love is what you need healing love so everything that i teach on about love and grace is what you need and now i'm spending a lot of time alone with the pandemic going on i rarely leave a house being alone is very difficult for someone with ocd totally understanding i just recently told my daughter about the problem but she blew it off now my son-in-law is retired my daughter and granddaughter's all grown up they have very little time for me thank you so much for reading this lengthy email please say a prayer for me i pray for peace of mind every day i'm very embarrassed and feel stupid about this whole thing but i don't know where to turn have you ever come across somebody that had a similar problem you said in one of your podcasts that you've heard it all but i was wondering if you've actually heard from and helped anybody with a problem like mine yeah they're all very similar pathways all very does every detail match every no that's impossible to match every single little detail because we all have uniqueness in our story in our journey i want to encourage you to uh to get a to get a copy of god loves me and i love myself so you can be able to understand how to see yourself through the way that god sees you that's gonna be so important um you wrote at the end i know a lot of ocd sufferers are afraid their bad thoughts might come true and they should let them flow away but mine actually did come true i will say with full confidence that is an absolute lie no your thought did not come true there is no connection to that but i can't sit here and convince you you're gonna have to come to the realization that i am feeding distortions they are not producing life truth sets us free does not keep us in bondage and i pray that what i shared here because yes ocd suffers you will exhaust your therapist you will exhaust people if you hear feedback and go yeah what about this and even um emails and even comment section say what about this what about this sometimes it reveals we're not really listening and we have to because we have the obsession of the topic that we're focused in on so i can talk all day long and then you'll still end it with yeah but did i do something about that plane inside because that's the that's the subject that's focused in on very intest intensely all right so anyways ladies and gentlemen brothers and sisters boys and girls the creek is starting to rise meaning i have to i have some appointments i got to go to so i love you all praise a blessing to your life to your journey be loved be loved and if it's been a blessing to your life consider supporting with a one-time donation or a regular support thank you thank you very much i'll see you all next time [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] you

Channel: Mark DeJesus

Views: 1,973

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: OCD, Scrupulosity, Unpardonable Sin

Id: IweTYNhJWpA

Length: 95min 0sec (5700 seconds)

Published: Thu Sep 02 2021