[Music] welcome back to hard r on box today we're breaking down all the news from Nvidia and amd's CES 2024 events in an easy to digest video we've got four graphics card announcements and a whole bunch of desktop CPUs to go over so let's get started with the official information on nvidia's well heavily rumored RTX 40 Super Series as various reports have been suggesting for some time now Nvidia has launched three super graphics cards at CES all of which are coming out in January there's the RTX 480 super RTX 470 TI super yes that is the official name and the RTX 470 super these new products give nvidia's GeForce line a much needed overhaul in the mid uper section of their stack the first product to hit the market is the RTX 470 super which will be available on January 17th at $600 us this GPU is launching into the same price point as the original RTX 470 but the 470 isn't being discontinued instead it has received an official price cut to $550 a price we first saw in the last few months of 2023 the 470 super is still using a104 silicon like the 470 and 470 TI but receives a configuration that is much closer to the 470 TI relative to the 4070 the SM count has increased from 46 to 56 bringing with it 7 ,1 168 cicor just shy of the 60 SMS and 7,680 cicor of the 470 TI however the memory subsystem is the same as the RTX 470 so we're getting 12 GB of gddr 6X memory on a 192-bit bus providing 54 gb/ second of bandwidth Nvidia has a performance slide showing the difference relative to the RTX 370 and rtx2070 with and without frame generation but luckily also provided with a performance claim relative to the RTX 470 now this should be taken with the grain of salt given its nvidia's first party benchmarking but they are saying the 470 super is 15% faster on average than the 470 and 5% slower than the 470 TI while the core configuration has increased by 20% expected performance isn't 20% higher due to the lack of change in memory bandwidth so effectively Nvidia are offering a new product at the same $600 price point that offers about 15% more performance which should allow it to better compete with the radon RX 7800 XT and it's this sort of price segment we saw the best competition in 2023 with the RTX 470 now falling to $550 the 470 super also comes out looking okay if that 15% performance uplift claim is accurate given the super model will be just 9% more expensive the additional unlocked cores have seen a 10% rise in tgp though which now sits at 220 Watts the RTX 470 TI super will be available next on January 24th at $800 us in a straight replacement for the RTX 470 TI the old model will be discontinued and the new model taking its place and really what Nvidia are offering with the 470 TI super is the minimum that they should have originally offered with the 470 TI at this price point the 470 TI super shifts up from a104 to a103 which brings with it substantial memory improvements we're now getting a 256bit memory interface with 16 GB of gddr 6X memory up from the pathetic 12 GB originally offered this sees memory bandwidth increased by 33% as well now sitting just shy of what the RTX 480 offers as the 470 TI suus memory isn't quite as highly clocked the core configuration is cut down 8103 though still higher than the original 470 TI on a104 offering 66 SMS and 8,448 C cause a 10% increase this is achieved at the same 285 wat tgp Nvidia tells us this model should be 10% faster than the RTX 470 TI on average which combined with a much needed increase in vram capacity seems like an okay Improvement the SM configuration is just a 133% cutdown compared to the RTX 480 with just 6% less memory bandwidth so I'd expect this card to get reasonably close to the 4080 the big question of course will be how well the slots in versus the RTX 470 super and the radon RX 7900 XT from AMD this model appears much more competitive in this price here with AMD although it probably will only end up around 20 to 25% faster than the 470 super at a 33% higher price that's not unusual though as typically in the graphics card Market you've had to pay anywhere from a modest to large premium to access High tiers of performance then there's the RTX 480 super launching on January 31st at $11,000 us this model has the least Hardware changes compared to its non-s super predecessor which is being discontinued to make way for the super card it's still an ad 103 GPU die this time fully unlocked with adsms and 10,240 Cuda cores we're still getting 16 GB of gddr 6X memory with a Small Bump to frequency taking it to 23 gbits per second all up Nvidia expect this card to be just 3% faster than the RTX 48 on average which is pretty understandable given the hardware differences the big Improvement to the RTX 480 super is the price the original 480 launched at $1,200 us so Nvidia are now offering a slightly faster product for $200 less a 17% discount while not an amazing price it's a much needed discount given the 480 wasn't selling super well at $1,200 or even $1,100 that it eventually fell to $11,000 makes sense in nvidia's updated product stack given it's offering around 20% more SMS than the 470 TI super at a 25% higher price so again a small premium to move up to a higher tier previously you were paying 50% more to get a 25% performance uplift going from the 470 TI to 480 nons super models this also gives the 480 super price parody with the MSRP of amd's RX 7900 XTX although typically you can find the XTX for slightly below $11,000 our testing had the 7900 XTX and 480 pretty close for rasterization performance with the 480 faster in rate tracing back when the r model was 15% cheaper we didn't think it was an automatic buy but was worth considering for some people with the RTX 480 super at a new price that's now much closer to the XTX that's putting a lot of pressure on AMD to lower the pricing of their Flagship rdna A3 model you'll see reviews for all three of these models close to their respective release dates Nvidia will be producing Founders Edition models for both the 480 super and 470 super while the 470 TI super will only be available via partner cards when we asked about the possibility of other Super Series graphics cards for the rest of the product stack Nvidia offered a pretty concise no comment so they didn't exactly rule out more gpus in the 40 series and honestly I think some super models are needed to fix up the 4060 Series so nidia's new GeForce RTX 40 Super Series cards are pretty much as expected I see these as fixers for the lineup all three models look much closer in specifications and pricing to where they should have been when they launched in late 2022 and early 2023 whether or not these cards do enough to get a solid recommendation in the current market remains to be seen they aren't world's faster going on nidia's claims but it's clear at this point that you shouldn't buy a $500 plus graphics card until these GPS are released and have been fully benchmarked AMD are also launching a graphics card in January the radon RX 7600 XT which is priced at $330 this is a very simple product that doesn't require much explanation it's it's a Radeon RX 7600 with 16 GB of memory so double the vram that also received a small overclock this puts the two 7600 gpus much closer in performance than what we saw in the previous generation between the RX 6600 and RX 6600 XT for example which had different core configurations so basically the RX 7600 XT continues to use a fully unlocked na'vi 33 die with 32 compute units and 2048 stream processors AMD are claiming a 10% higher game clock for the XT model versus non XT along with 16 GB of gddr6 memory at the same 18 GBS per second on the same 128bit bus providing double the capacity at the same memory bandwidth the board power rating of the cut is increased from 165 wats to 190 watts to accommodate these changes a 15% increase AMD claiming some surprisingly high performance improvements moving from the 7600 to 7600 XT this chart here shows anywhere from a 7 to 40% Improvement at 1080P and a 13 to 45% Improvement at 1440p the only way those larger numbers would be possible is if the vram capacity is the limiting factor on the 8 GB model which is certainly plausible given how many games require more than 8 GB of memory for Ultra setting gaming these days what I'm less sure about are some of those performance increases in games that aren't overly vram limited like Starfield the games there appear to be higher than expected based on the hardware differences between the cards so that will certainly require further benchmarking I was also a little disappointed to see this chart from AMD which Compares performance both with and without various features enabled no issue with the Baseline numbers pitting the 7600 XT up against the RTX 460 or for Apples to Apples comparisons like FSR 3 enabled on both gpus in Avatar frontiers of Pandora or like a drag and giden AMD are showing the 7600 XT trading blows with the RTX 460 in the those circumstances what is pretty misleading in my opinion are the comparisons where AMD applies their driver-based ammf frame generation feature to beat the GeForce GPU in the output frame rate number listed in the chart these features are not delivering equivalent output image quality especially comparing say DSS2 quality mode with no frame generation to FSR 2 quality mode with ammf frame generation ammf is not very good based on what I've tested so far and absolutely does not produce image quality equivalent to other configurations in this chart yet by comparing in this way and treating ammf as equivalent AMD can show a large performance win with the new 7600 XT it's not great when Nvidia does this comparing RTX 40 gpus to RTX 30 gpus and shows the new 40 series cards having a performance win through dss3 frame generation we've explained extensively why frame generation is not a performance enhancing technology they are guilty of this with the super serious data as well although to their credit they did provide other more relevant numbers that didn't include frame generation FPS with amd's numbers it's even worse because they are directly comparing radon with GeForce Nvidia only compares to their own products and on top of that the gulf between ammf image quality and basic upscaling on Native is a lot larger than dss3 frame Generation image quality and basic upscaling or native the more companies Chase the highest FPS number through software features with no consideration for image quality so that they can Market their graphics card as being the best in performance the worse these comparisons get the worse these charts get and the more useless or misleading the information is for consumers at least AMD did still provide native Apples to Apples numbers if you want a proper comparison so I would just ignore all the ammf and upscaling frame generation data if you want to look at the raw performance difference between these products on a more positive note AMD are claiming to have improved encoding image quality through rate control optimizations in the latest version of the AMF SDK this SDK has been implemented in the latest version of radon software 24.1 and applies to all of h.264 hgvc and av1 encoding streaming image quality has been criticized on radon gpus particularly with h.264 for some time now so it's good to see AMD putting work into this third part apps will need to update to the latest version of the AMF SDK to get these enhancements but I'm quite excited to see how it fars it does look promising the price of the 7600 XT doesn't seem amazing the MSRP is $60 us higher versus the RX 7600 for a small clock increase and double the vram real world pricing could be as much as $80 higher given we have seen the 7600 fall to $250 at times and the 7600 is hardly an amazingly priced product to begin with I'll give some credit to AMD for making their cheapest 16 GB graphics card yet and offering more vram in the sub $350 pric here but it feels a bit expensive relative to the RX 7600 it's right around the price of the still available 6700 XT with 12 GB of vram which can be found for $320 the 6700 XT is likely to be faster so it'll be interesting to see where it ends up in Steve's benchmarks my gut feel though is Amy has missed an opportunity to to provide extreme pressure on the RTX 4060 the 7600 non XT and 4060 offer similar performance so if AMD could offer a small performance win as well as double the vram at the same $300 price as the RTX 4060 that seems pretty compelling at $330 though I'm yet to be convinced AMD also announced a range of new CPUs including zen4 apus for the am5 platform and new processors for am4 let's start with the zen4 apus which which are being labeled the ryzen 8000g series these should probably be the 7000g series as they are from the same CPU architecture generation as other zen4 parts which are rise in 7000 but it's not the first time AMD have bumped up the product name for apus they also did this with the 2000g and 300g series all of the new apus are based on amd's monolithic Hawk Point die which is also used for ryzen 8040 series mobile apus a refresh of the Phoenix dieet used for 7040 series mobile apus the top two models are straightforward the ryzen 7 8700g has an 8 core zen4 design with radon 7 ADM Graphics A2 computer unit rdna A3 design up to a 5.1 GHz boost clock 16 MGA L3 cache Plus 8 Meg L2 for a total of 24 Meg cache all of these apus have a 65 wat TDP the ryzen 5 8600 G then Cuts this down to 6 zen4 CPU cores and radon 76m Graphics which is eight compute units the the ryzen 5 8500g is a little different as it uses a mixture of zen4 and Zen 4C it's a six core model but it's split into two zen4 cores and four zen4 C cores as a refresher Zen 4C is a smaller core designed to be more efficient while retaining the same architecture features as full Zen 4 along with this there's radon 740m Graphics providing four compute units of rna3 there's also a further cut down ryzen 38300 G but this will only be available in pre-built systems all of these apus will be available on January 31st the 8700g priced at $330 us the 8600 G at $230 and the $88,500 g at $180 us the 8500g will therefore end up matching the price of the ryzen 5 7500f the 8600 G will match the price of the 7600 and the ryzen 7 8700g will match the price of the ryzen 77700 that's looking at msrps of course although current retail pricing is pretty close to to the MSRP for these parts as we discussed in our recent podcast episode These apus are going to be pretty Niche products with half the L3 cash of the regular Zen 4 desktop CPUs in the Raphael series along with lower boost frequencies the 8000g apus will likely be slower for gaming when paired with discrete graphics so anyone wanting to build a system with discrete graphics in mind will probably be better off with other zen4 parts either the ryzen 57600 at the same price as the 8600 G or the 7 800 x3d which is $70 more expensive than the 8700g right now the integrated rna3 GPU in these products is going to be quite a bit faster than the two compute units offered with Raphael CPUs but still only sufficient for lowquality setting gaming at low resolutions in this chart for example AMD are only claiming 60 FPS in modern titles using 1080p low settings when paired with ammf frame generation I can't imagine the experience in Allen wake 2 with a native frame rate of 26 FPS boosted to 62 FPS through driver based frame generation will be any good at all more realistic use cases for these products are games like Dota 2 League of Legends and older games like Grand Theft Auto 5 the big question mark with this sort of Apu and why it may relegate them to Niche use cases is whether or not they are a better buyer than a regular CPU paired with a low-end discrete GPU with previous apus we've typically found the CPU plus discret GPU pairing to be the better choice but we'll have to wait and see whether 8,000g series ends up in performance and value with that said it's good to see AMD launching new apus at the same price as the equivalent CPU model which I think is a better strategy than what we've seen in the past the previous Apu line the 5000g series had the 5700 G at $360 and the 5600 G at $260 that was a $60 premium for these apus over the 5700x and 5600 respectively price parody makes a lot more sense it means buyers will be tossing up whether to get likely faster CPU performance from the non Apu models or the integrated Graphics capabilities of the Apu G Series models instead of also needing to factor price into that equation and typically a premium for the igpu functionality AMD are also launching four new am4 processors which can be summarized as follows the ryzen 7 5700x 3D is a 5800 X 3D with a 400 MHz lower clock speed so same 8 Core zen3 Design same 90 6 Meg L3 cache same 105 wat TDP just with a 9% lower boost frequency at 4.1 GHz it'll be priced at $250 us which could be a really compelling buy for am4 owners given the 5800 x30 has only briefly been seen below $300 us across the last 12 months its typical price is in the $320 to $350 US range making the 5700 x3d over 20% cheaper the ryzen 5 5700 is a 5700 G Apu with the integrated Graphics part disabled this was previously released as an oem only part but will now be available as a boxed processor same 8 core zen3 CPU design with 16 Mega val3 cache and PCI 3.0 capabilities same 4.6 GHz boost clock and 65 wat TDP just no igpu it'll be priced at $175 so $25 less than the ryzen 7 5700x or 5700 G it'll be interesting to see the gaming performance of that part given its reduced l 3 cash capacity relative to the 5700x and ryzen 5 5600 the lad of which is just $150 these days will it be worth getting an extra two CES for $25 more relative to the 5600 even if that means sacrificing L3 cash not sure it would depend on the workload and may not be the best choice for gaming there's two new apus as well the ryzen 55600 GT is a 5600 G with a 200 MHz higher boost clock and 300 MHz lower base clock and the 5500 GT is a 5600 G with the same boost clock just with a 300 MHz lower base clock both have the integrated Graphics enabled and are designed for ENT level systems the 5600 GT priced at $140 and the 5500 GT at $125 us all of these new processors the 8000g series and the new am4 processors will be available on January 31st it seems like Steve will have an exceptionally busy February reviewing processes doubly so because Intel are just about announce more 14th gen CPUs as well if the rumors is to be believed and that does it for NVIDIA and amd's CES News for 2024 four new graphics cards to get excited about all launching in January along with a new range of CPUs as well that means lots of reviews to look forward to make sure you're subscribed to Hardware unboxed so you don't miss out in-depth testing which I think will be coming up pretty soon with the 470 super set to be released in the middle of January anyway that's it for this one if you do appreciate our independent analysis reviews testing all that sort of thing we do have our patreon and flip plan accounts links to those are in the description below you can sign up gain some cool benefits like our monthly live streams BTS videos behind the scenes chat and more so thanks for watching and I'll catch you in the next [Music] [Music] one
