Noam Chomsky & Harry Belafonte in Conversation on Trump, Sanders, the KKK, Rebellious Hearts & More

on Monday over 2300 people packed into the historic Riverside Church in New York City to celebrate the 20th anniversary of democracy now it was a momentous occasion in part because it marked the first time Noam Chomsky and Harry Belafonte appeared on stage together in conversation the two have been longtime champions of social justice Noam Chomsky is a world-renowned political dissident linguist author who gained fame in the 60s for his critique of the Vietnam War in u.s. imperialism he's Institute professor emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology where he's taught for more than half a century Harry Belafonte is a longtime civil rights activist immensely popular singer and activist actor he was one of Martin Luther King's closest confidants and helped organize the march on Washington in 1963 Democracy Now is Juan Gonzalez and I sat down with Noam Chomsky and Harry Belafonte on Monday at Riverside Church now I just want to start off by saying you have just witnessed an historic moment is this the first time Harry unknown that you have met it's not the first time we met but it's the first time we've shared a platform together it's a bit overwhelming a little intimidating to sit with so much knowledge and sensitivity anyway it's nice to be with all of you so we have this opportunity to talk with the two of you at this critical juncture in US history and the world Harry back in 40 before you went off to war you were banned from the Copacabana as an African American you come back in your headlining there as one of the world's great entertainers and musicians you marched in Selma with dr. King and whenever one of his closest confidants Noam you marched against the Vietnam War you thought you'd be spending years maybe decades in jail even as you were rising in your academic career at MIT willing to give up everything you two giants of many movements your thoughts today in the age of Donald Trump defer to you [Applause] I must admit that I had far more commitment to the belief that in the final analysis I met our extreme things might be in America that eventually our citizens would rise up and righteously stop the enemy at the gate if not in fact with them in retreat and each time certain events took place we met the horror and the terror not only I referenced before the Sun I noticed when I mentioned the fourth right wasn't quite sure what I was talking about for just for clarity uh as you know that the last great cobalt torment was the Nazi era was called the Third Reich and I thought that we Authority cleansed ourselves of that encounter and that we would be much more resilient I think to a degree we do it reveal some resilience but the real test has not yet come until the inaugural transference has taken place and what concerns me is that uh beyond the mischief of Trump and all those in his cabinet and the people that he's appointed into roles of leadership I had never quite understood that we had another severe unattended enemy and that was our species commitment or [Music] weakness in the face of absolute greed I think we have failed to come to circle side conclusions because we have been so contaminated with possessions and power are being forgotten that da we have destroyed our children or set the tone for that I would welcome professor Chomsky's point of view what I hope he says something that'll make me dance out of here well I should say that I was somewhat immunized to the Trump electoral college victory of course not popular victories you know by the fact that my wife was the only person I knew who even before the Republican primaries predicted that Trump was known a win looking at the country somewhat from the outside she's from Brazil and felt that somehow she had her finger on the pulse of a large part of the country and was confident that this was going to happen so I wasn't all that surprised or I think it's extremely dangerous in many ways like the ones I mentioned and others that you're quite familiar with on the other hand there's plenty of opportunities we should bear in mind that the country has become much more civilized in the past 50 or 60 years a meeting like this could not have been conceivable in 1960 to 1970 the kinds of commitment and engagement that you and many others like you are committed to is something quite new and there have been many advances and achievement women's rights civil rights generally rights of gays opposition to aggression wave environmental concerns didn't even exist at that time there's been tremendous progress that means that struggles today start from a much higher plane than they did not many years ago at the time when Harry was marching in Selma it was a much harsher world than it is today the reason is that plenty of people did commit themselves to constant dedicated struggle and there were plenty of achievements and that goes back in American history no need to review it but the earlier period is one of total horror I mean after all the country was founded unto incredible crimes unbelievable crimes that one expert virtual extermination of the indigenous population it's kind of a migrant crisis of the kind we don't think about the day and a form of slavery which was the most vicious in history and is in fact the basis for a large part of the wealth and economic development the United States England France and others that's history when Donald Trump talks about making the country great again for many people it wasn't that great quite the opposite but the point is there has been plenty of progress because people people facing much harsher conditions than we do didn't give up that's an important lesson furthermore even the election itself suggests major opportunities for one thing as you know the Democrats actually had a considerable majority of the vote and if you look at the younger voters the people who will shape the future they were overwhelmingly addy Trump and even more overwhelmingly Pro Sanders we should also bear in mind what a remarkable phenomenon the Sanders campaign here's somebody unknown came from nowhere practically no one country knew who he was he was using words like socialism which used to be a real curse word nope no corporate support no media support no support from the wealthy everything that has always been crucial to winning elections mostly we have bought elections had none of it and practically took over one of the two major parties that could have taken it over if they hadn't been fishin as you know [Applause] it was primarily driven by young people all of these are very hopeful signs means there are plenty of things that can be done there are opportunities that can be grasped and no time to run through them but there are plenty of them and it's really very much in our hands and among the younger of you in your hands to carry us forward in this long path long arduous path towards trying to create a civilized society in a decent world MIT professor and political dissident Noam Chomsky and world-renowned entertainer and activist Harry Belafonte speaking at Riverside Church on Monday at democracy news 20th anniversary celebration will return to their historic conversation the first time they're in a public panel together talking about Trump Ku Klux Klan and much more in a minute [Music] you might have heard difference but I know it's a fad the Jesus Mary Joseph and the Apostle Paul or black attend letters I'm writing each one reads the same anon circles I'm drawn one around your name land and freedom steal and faith - and bold and wild and skin star dirt and fire it doesn't matter oh yeah it does not matter what you say flesh shapes the day flesh shapes the day brothers and sisters rejoice and repent tom morello performing flesh shapes the day at democracy now is 20th anniversary celebration Monday at Riverside Church it was a packed house over 2300 people this is democracy now democracynow.org I'm Amy Goodman we return now to this historic conversation between MIT professor world-renowned political dissident Noam Chomsky and Harry Belafonte known around the world as an entertainer and an activist they never appeared on stage together in conversation before Juan Gonzalez and I interviewed them together I'd like to ask both of you there's been a lot of discussion in in recent weeks about the role of workers or the working-class in this election of Trump's supposed appeal to white workers and Harry you know that the civil rights movement as it was as it was growing and developing needed and was a fueled as well by progressive unions like 1199 and the Auto Workers and others that gave it strength and organization and resources i wondering how you're looking at this issue because moment you mentioned all the young people the problem is that the young people the so-called creative classes are increasingly concentrating in the big cities they're in seattle and they're in chicago and they're in New York and and then the issue then is what happens in the rest of the country you know back in the 60s and 70s we used to say you got to go back out and organize organizing the communities from which you came from how do you see this whole analysis of the quote loss of the working-class to sort of progressive politics that you're hearing in the commercial and the corporate press well take a look again at the last few elections in too many of the Trump voters among the white working-class voted for Obama they were deluded by the slogans of the campaign you may recall that the 2008 campaign was based on the slogan Hope and Change well many people voted and rightly for hope and change the working class has suffered not disastrously but severely from the neoliberal policies of the past generation pretty much from 1979 so if he looks say just take the two thousand seven the peak of what economists were calling the economic miracle right before the crash 2007 American workers had real wages lower considerably lower than in 1979 before these policies were instituted they lost it listened to Alan Greenspan who during the height of the euphoria over the economy was called Saint Alan in the greatest economist of all time he testified to Congress explaining the basis for the success of the economy that he was running he said it was based on growing worker insecurity growing worker insecurity meaning if workers are beaten down enough intimidated enough and if their organizations their unions are sufficiently destroyed that they can't ask for higher wages and for decent benefits then it's good for the economy creates a healthy economy by some measure we know the measure well all of this has happened and the working class has suffered from it they had a real need for hope and change well they didn't get hope and they didn't get change I don't usually agree with Sarah Palin but I think she she nailed it when she asked at one point where's all this hope e changing business there wasn't any so no hope no change already it showed very quickly in midterm and future elections this election a con man came along and is offering hope and change and they're voting for it suppose that people like you the people who form the Sanders movement would present an authentic constructive program for real hope and change it would win these people back I think many of the Trump voters many of the trope Trump voters could have voted for Sanders if there have been the right the right kind of activism and organization and those are possibilities it's been done in the past under much harsher circumstances organizing white working people in Indiana is a lot easier than what the Freedom Riders tried to do in the south 60 years ago much easier takes work but it can be done my feeling is that a core part of a progressive program is to rebuild the organized structure of the labor movement which all throughout modern history has been in the forefront of progressive change and that's not impossible either it's been beaten down pretty severely in the past generation but it's been worse before they go back to the 1920s a period which is not unlike today in many ways the Gilded Age you know the the labor movement was virtually destroyed Wilson Woodrow Wilson's Red Scare practically wiped it out there had been a militant activist labor movement there was nothing left of it in the 1920s by the 1930s it revived militant labor action organization of the CIO overcame racist conflicts laid the basis for the New Deal programs which were highly beneficial to the extent that they remain they remain beneficial that can happen again no reason why it can't well in a moment Patti Smith is going to be coming out on the stage to share her talents but I wanted to wrap up with Harry you know democracy now originally came out of Pacifica radio which was five stations WBAI in New York among them and KPFT in Houston and KPFT is the only radio station in the country whose transmitter was blown up it was a few weeks after it went on the air in 1970 blown up by the Ku Klux Klan and when they got back on their feet and rebuilt the Klan blew it up again strapped 15 times the dynamite to the base of the transmitter and it took months to get back on the air after that and I can't remember was the Grand Dragon or the exalted Cyclops because I often confuse their titles but he said it was his proudest act as he understood how dangerous pacifica how dangerous independent media is for people to speak for themselves that's a story of history though who would have thought in 2016 we'd be talking about the Ku Klux Klan today when President when Donald Trump was asked whether he would disavow David Duke support you know he hesitated he said he'd have to find out more from David Duke or the Klan which you know exactly who it was who is supporting him maybe the only time he hesitated before he spoke you know what was at which Klan chapter he wanted to know in the United States it was to make a decision but what about this what about Donald Trump the Ku Klux Klan and the messages that he is constantly putting out to lure more voters and support I believe in Trump and bringing a new energy to the realization of the the vastness of the reach of the Ku Klux Klan is uh not something that has been out of the our basic purview of thought the Ku Klux Klan for some of us is a constant it has a constant existence it isn't until it touches certain aspects of white America that white America all of a sudden it wakes up to the fact that there's something called the Klan and it does it's mr. what causes me to have great thought is something that's most unique to my experience and as I said earlier tonight at the doorstep of being 90 years of age I had thought I had seen it all and done it all only to find out that in 89 I knew nothing but the most peculiar thing to me has been the absence the black presence in the middle of this resistance not just the skirmishes that we've seen in Ferguson and black lives matter and I think those protests and those voices being raised are extremely important but we blew this thing a long time ago when they started the purge against communism in this country and against the voice of those who saw hope in a design for socialist theory and for the sharing of wealth and for the quality of humankind when we abandon our visual a visa our vision and vigils on that topic I think we sold out ourselves a group of young black students in Harlem just a few days ago asking what at this point in my life was I looking for and I said what I've always been looking for where resides the rebel heart without the rebellious heart without people who understand that there's no sacrifice he can make that is too great to retrieve that which we've lost we will forever be distracted with possessions and trinkets and title and I think one of the big things that happened was that when black people began to be anointed by the trinkets of this capitalist society and began to become big-time players and began to become heads of corporations they became players in the game of our own demise and although I believe that the professor chompy's Chomsky's evaluation is a valid and a basis for great thought I am looking at the victories that we're having like a wandering just you see it a few days ago Native American brothers the fact that our Native American brothers and sisters are stopped the engine for a moment is really a call for us to be reminded that the engine can be stopped and therein I find ah solace there and I find the capacity to really do things and create things that will make a difference to you it appears we appear to be headed ah I think people have to be more adventurous the heart has to find great a space for rebellion so we pay a penalty for such thought because I just recently reminded of Florida goodman chaney they sit ticularly close to my own feelings and thoughts because I was one of the voices that was raised in recruiting those young students to participate in our rebellion David Goodman Andrews brother is here today I'm sure that he's always at the right places but I think that there are those kinds of extremes that will be experienced in the struggle but the real nobility of our existence is how we prepare to pay that price and I think once the opposition understands that we are quite prepared to die for what we believe in that death for a Cause does not just sit with Isis but sits of people workers Devo genuinely prepared to push against the theft of our nation and the distortion of our Constitution and that for many of us no price is too great for that charge and we have great history to call upon I mentioned a few before but we still got a few left and I want to just take this opportunity cause I know we're winding down to just say to you Amy and do you John that I've been through much in this country I came back from the Second World War and while the world rejoiced and the fact that Hitler had been met and defeated there were solvers who were touched by the fact that instead of sitting at the table feast at that great victory we were worried about our lives because the response from many in America was the murder of many black servicemen that came back and we were considered to be dangerous because we've learned the capacity to handle weaponry we had faced death in the battlefield every we came back we had an expectation as the victors he came back knowing that yes we might afford to end Hitler they also fought for our right to vote in America and that in the pursuit of such rights came the civil rights movement well that can happen again we just have to get out our own coats dust them off stop screwing around and just chasing the good times and get down to business there's some ask and I had to be done [Applause] [Music] world renowned entertainer and activist Harry Belafonte an MIT professor linguist political dissident Noam Chomsky speaking at Riverside Church Monday at Democracy Now is 20th anniversary celebration we began 20 years ago on nine Pacifica and community radio stations today we broadcast on over 1400 public television and radio stations around the world a very special happy birthday to Noam Chomsky today is his 88th birthday Harry Belafonte will turn 90 on March 1st you can watch the full event of our celebration with Harry Belafonte Noam Chomsky Danny Glover Patti Smith Tom Morello Danny DeVito and more Michael Stipe as well in a surprise appearance at democracynow.org II when we come

Channel: Democracy Now!

Views: 258,056

Keywords: Democracy Now, Amy Goodman, DN, News, Politics, democracynow.org, Video, Independent Media, Daily News, Breaking News, World News, Interview, Democracy Now!'s 20th anniversary, Noam Chomsky, Harry Belafonte, Riverside Church, Election 2016, Dakota Access Pipeline, DAPL, Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, social justice, Vietnam War, American Imperialism, Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump, Ku Klux Klan, MIT, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., World War II

Id: nFwE9Itzzes

Length: 32min 30sec (1950 seconds)

Published: Wed Dec 07 2016