My Life, My Practice: Ajahn Sona in conversation with Pamutto Bhikkhu

today is another chapter in my life my practice and I'm here with imouto Baku young fellow I guess it's all relative you're in your thirties I'm in New Hampshire on a rainy day at the Jade the bottom on history and I've just come out for the Catena and I thought it would be beautiful to take an opportunity to interview pollute Oh Camuto is a interesting character he's being a monk for about 7 s is my eighth rain eighth rain and he is a rarity is some to some what in the West he's practicing the do Tonga's or the wandering monk life around in New England and you can see the background of the whether this is actually October and you can imagine taking up this wandering light in rural New England it's a little bit different than ancient India in the 5th century or Thailand I'm a lot of young Western monks have aspired to that it sounds appealing but the reality might be a little bit different when you're out there and it's been raining for three days and you're under at the foot of a tree under a plastic tarp but we'll find out more about tap when we talk to e kuu imouto let's talk about what you were before you were Monken this is more or less a classic American experience I'm Canadian and it doesn't happen so much but the American military so you are a soldier in the American military and when did you join was 2003 it was your whole I was 18 or 19 at the time I was I was pretty much in a gap after after high school and realizing I was really on this threshold if I if I moved out into the world and I got I got a significant other a girlfriend I got a car I got a house I would suddenly have liabilities that would require constant employment and I was just on the threshold earlier I don't have these yet I have but I have basic needs I need food shelter clothing some spending money for the occasional thing and for me the military seemed to provide that it would it would I mean there's certainly the reliabilities but it seemed like it would account for my basic needs and it would give me a structure where I could try to figure out what I wanted to do and it's a discipline structure you're it's like it's similar it's not all that different from monasticism except Lori's ultimate aim except that it's completely different yeah except that the intent is is is is going into the world and is is and it's also combative aggressive you're trying to get your way in things and I found that's ultimately why it could not work but I learned so much about the way you can stick with something and the way that you soldiers assist each other with the idea of the battle buddy you know you always have somebody looking out for you is something that I've really taken with me is the end goal might have been totally different from a life of peace but the process of doing things skillfully continues to apply yeah so did you get a lot of exposure to outdoor training and how to be in different kinds of weather at different hours of the day and did that help with the natural kind of I think people have a certain amount of fear of being alone in nature I it's really curious yeah it's the military when you get down to it they spent a lot of time in nature and I think something of that has to do with an appreciation of the blank spots in the map like the military sees a country boundary and says well we want to own that it doesn't matter if there's a dot there or there's a blank space they want to own it and so they're sending soldiers into this blank spot and you spend a lot of time in nature you spend a lot of time eating food out of cans or bags you spend a lot of time just waiting and that certainly had an effect on me like I had a sense that I could yeah if I have the proper gear I can go pretty much anywhere and just wait for instructions and that's that does that does come a bit into monasticism but again the intent was was not there and that that filters down so the intent in the military is you're going out with the proper gear and wait for instructions there's there's not a lot of going out and being satisfied with your experience and monasticism that's what we end up doing is we end up saying I won't be the most satisfied if I can be on the other side of this class and not suffer and that takes that takes a lot of I think that's something you have to build up gradually you can't just throw it that in your pack and March off you have to learn that and then you left the military was that a I'm worthy it was at a mutual decision of the military left you and you left the military yeah yeah you throw you out there was this it was it was mutual to a point we I think we we agreed that I was no I would no longer fit there was a turning point where I understood I was I was ultimately the one responsible for my actions and when this came up I just had a very clear sense of the Five Precepts as the Buddha described and that if I kill I am responsible for the Karma of that action I will get I will get an unpleasant result and I really felt myself sort of teetering over a lifestyle that would be completely unwholesome and I pulled back I said I cannot I cannot do that and eventually the military agreed is like well then you shouldn't be here and I it was also a real experience understanding renunciation if I had been attached to my my vet status of item attached to college money if I'd been attached to the security of a paycheck or even the good name of somebody who had come fulfilled a contract until the government decided I was I had fully fulfilled it which takes longer and longer these days when there's there's active conflict if I had been attached to that I could not have gotten out but there was a point where I said no no my spiritual welfare is the most important thing is the project of my life I have to be ready to let anything go and when I told them I was willing to sacrifice I was willing if there was jail time necessary for me to get out then that's that was my responsibility I signed the contract I took responsibility and as soon as I made that decision I was out almost immediately they just said oh well then there's there's no reason for you to be here and I was I was I was on my feet with a bit of pocket money and the freedom to explore then I I had said I'm all in on this spiritual project and they said okay go do it and then I was there I was on the other side of the glass with a backpack and it began right so you then went straight to the monastic life you you encountered monastic life where in a book where did you encounter the idea of Buddhist monks I at first that's what I had no idea what I was pursuing and I think that's ultimately why I've become a Buddhist monk is because the Buddhist teaching makes it clear are humans they the human conditions what can be done by one who is seeking the way out of suffering but I didn't have that at first I had no basis for for I had never I didn't realize Buddhism was being practiced I had a basic idea of it that I had heard second and third hand from history teachers or social studies teachers so what I really went out seeking was the precepts I went out seeking a moral life and I said that's what it's got to be the basis because I've seen what an immoral life will do I was getting more angry more depressed and more sunk in worldly concerns so I went out seeking a moral life and it took me backpacking across Asia for six months looking in different countries and there were many things that called out to me on that trip and said this is the way this is the goal this is the spiritual the highest spiritual pursuit but when I came to Thailand a Buddhist country I saw something that didn't cry out and said this is it this is the way I saw something very quiet I saw people living a moral life and not not expecting any recognition expecting any return just doing it because it was good good for goodness sake and to see not to walk by a temple early in the morning in Bangkok and suddenly 15 monks come out of the temple on their alms rounds and you understand there's a monastery on the other side of a wall and you hadn't heard yeah and I heard anything you know your people in here you know cats and dogs you didn't hear the clatter of dishes there were 20 human beings living peacefully and quietly and harmoniously on the other side of that wall then they just come out in front of me I couldn't I couldn't ignore that that that was a sign I was looking for of a way to lead a peaceful life yeah the sound of silence yes it was it was deafening yeah so you made your way to eventually to California where that was where you were Dean data by URI yes that's Terry thank you and when you came in there did that remind you of a military base in any way uniforms it's yeah there that you could say there are a lot of similarities I mean you have this shaven head and the uniforms and the hierarchical structure but it just felt so different right it whereas in the military you you have to be told what to do and there's always the sense of resisting it's like how much do I give to Uncle Sam you know of my time and my blood sweat and tears and it's always this patriotic duty but in the monastery nobody's the ear nobody makes you go but you'll never get there unless you really want to be there and so every day is this voluntary experience of what they do do I value this do I want to give anything and these are not people who need me but these are people who will accept my my my participation they'll accept me if I want to stay and so quickly very quickly the military sense faded away all except the the sense of of team and camaraderie that the absolute best parts of the military were here and institutionalized and put towards a worthy goal so let's fast forward to your roaming around in New England now I heard through a few other monks that there was this monk I think well you know you wrote me a letter asking if you could borrow from some of my Dhamma talks of course which you're all anybody anybody out there please borrow from my talks and you are wandering around in New England all in all kinds of weather all kinds of situations very similar to the time of the Buddha now this happens in Thailand and I think some of the Western mounts for sure how explored that but that's a over a sustained period of time it says almost three years you've been wandering around out there and these little New England towns so tell us about your encounters with ordinary American people as you walk down the street of a little town in New Hampshire in the robes what what does that feel like what what happens it's well it's it's it's it's just a sort of magic as to there's there are many days when I realize I don't have to this is a it's a voluntary experience I don't have to go out into the town with my bowl there are monasteries there are there are homeless shelters there's all sorts of places I could go to get food but it feels very much like an offering of myself an offering of visit we call it the sign of the seminar or the the appearance of a monastic in the world is soothing it gives a sense of mortality for one the monk is a sign that you know we're all world world world finite everything is finite and it reminds us how well are we spending our time I find that people really respond to that as they see me you'll see people who are I see cars going by it's just it's just built into my my perception now but the cars go by and people are on their way to work and I have a lot of a lot of compassion because if there are if there isn't that sign of the Samana they would go from point A their home to point B their work and the time in between is wasted it's merely a commute but if along the way they happen to see me and I'm walking slowly and mindfully one step to the next I can turn left I can turn right I can go forward I can answer if somebody beckons me to come closer I can have a chat on the side of the road for an hour if somebody's in need that that can have an effect on them and if that can carry it on into their day so this really a lot of my interactions with people is just providing that sense of I'm here I'm here now you tap in for five seconds hi you know good luck on your day at work or I can tap in for five hours is like oh okay this sounds serious let's let's sit down no let's let's have a cup of coffee and just just talk it through how can I help you there's kind of a to society's out there this one mainstream and very conventional and then there's an alternative society which has been around since well probably it's an int a factor of American culture but it manifested in their 60s hippies and so forth do you encounter people who are on the alternative side that are looking at you and saying you know what's this and far out man yeah and versus mainstream conservative types looking at and wondering what's this mm-hmm you feel a difference between these two cultures I do yeah I do and I think they're there it's and it's very nice to to recognize that that we still that we have that and then they seem like two cultures but actually that's one culture and that the to complement each other so would I would I began to realize is in Asia they they have this sense that you know the the the the the hairy you know hermit up on top of the mountain he's the one you can go to with really important questions about life and everything because he has nothing to lose by giving you a straight answer he is he has nothing invested he's not trying to sell you anything if you go up to him and ask him about life death you know birth aging suffering all that he'll just tell you straight out do this do that you know it's up to you and in in Asia they really value that the king will go out of his way to visit a monastery you know that the Emperor's will listen to the to the sages means there's a sense that this person who's at the fringe of society has a valuable perspective and that that informed society and this is why they take care of their monastics and in the West we we still have this sort of counterculture where we have we have hobos we have homeless people we have surfers and and and people who do drugs we have this whole fringe part of society is informing society it's giving a valuable perspective when it's done with intention and they're they're providing a perspective that you think you you think in mainstream culture that you need this you need this you need this you need this to be happy but look at me I have none of that and I am happy to do you find a lot of curiosity on the part of the fringe culture about your lifestyle and your values yes because is that we haven't we haven't really had the appreciation in our culture so in in Western culture there's been a lot of like pushing away the fringe element pushing away the fringe element they can't make it in society we don't we don't we don't want these influences but when they see a monastic they can see that there was a reason for that is because the homeless people are Hermits or sages philosophers they they weren't providing something they weren't reputable they weren't um somebody you could you could you could rely on you could go to for serious answer because they weren't cultivating anything but in the monastic yeah if people see that this is what is just somebody who is respectable this is somebody who's given up a lot to do this this is somebody who is very energetic and very interested who's thinking about you know important things important things important themes in our life so let's talk about the first week when you stepped out at the door three years ago into uncertainty we tell us about a psychological condition and the practical matter of where did you stay what did you eat the yeah the the uncertainty was the uncertainty was the most daunting thing and I recognized right away that this was why this is why monks weren't doing it yeah there were there was so much that was uncertain there is no tradition in Thailand if you decide to do this there's a long-standing tradition centuries of tradition about how you do it they have specific gear specific protocols even specific temples and regions you can go to but we don't have that in the West but I also recognize that it's totally human to be afraid of uncertainty dragon is that fear is a response to the unknown and the unknown is simply I just don't have answers for things but that fear is just an emotion and it's actually a logical emotion and once once I knew that then I know ok well stepping out the door I'm going to be afraid I'm going to be clueless I am going to be uninformed I'm gonna be blundering through this every step of the way because I I don't have any answers but I took that on as part of the practice so as I stepped out the door I I accepted the uncertainty I accepted it and I I learned to live not by answers not by this is the way I do it and how can I get to get to this this is the proper shelter how can I find that because then it would always be outside or it'd always be in the future getting to the next proper shelter but rather to live by principles you know what does shelter provide for a monastic shelter shields us from heat it shields us from cold and shield us from the Sun and wind and from bugs that's its function provide seclusion from elements that are more than we can take and so as I stepped out the one certainty I could I could see it was that I would know when I can when when I'm in situation that I can take and when I'm not too hot not too cold not too hungry not being eaten by something I am okay and that this is this is what I was what I was going for all along was this sense of okay and so very quickly the uncertainty was tempered with a sense of certainty when I fell in line with just a principle it's like I am getting enough shelter well then there's no longer any uncertainty there's no longer any basis for fear and I could see the fear when it came up when it when it would come up is just anticipation and we all do this we anticipate our next challenge but if we if we just cut that step out then we can we can be we can be present we can be satisfied in this moment and by just recognizing that no okay no i I've I've I've fulfilled my needs at this moment I'm okay the next moment come when it will I've prepared for it by by developing these principles and knowing what what ours supports are for what do you remember your first meal on the road where did it come from it came from a very generous person I I do not remember but it's it's always been the same for the fur fur fur three three rains retreats three if it's for two years now it has always been an unsolicited donation there's been charity and it's always been to me because I'm hungry I'd say 95% of the people I've met don't really know much of anything about Theravada monks they don't they don't and many of them have been quite planning is that I'm gonna give you this I don't know what you are and I don't want to know what you are but I can see that you're hungry and it's always been that and it's always very humbling and very simple it's like this is this is a compassionate response this is a sincere response one human being to the next and yeah and it's it just it just it brings us out of the the the the attention on the food is it enough food is it the right food is it hot is it is it has a doesn't have enough calories for the road and it just gets you back to that sense of this is a support this is good and it has come and I've completely blameless way so that first offering I'm sure it was completely blameless and III I was receiving it as one who has nothing and and nothing is not a hindrance it means I have a space that can be filled with something and so it had no no no it never has any impact on the minds you can live your life and and at best it will be it would be a neutral experience okay just not hungry anymore but it can really be something quite profound you see somebody getting joy under that offering and then even before you eat the food and you feel full and that's that's really what I go for is there a typical person who we'll offer you food women more than men do teenagers offer you food do old people offer you food like sir are you starting to get a sense of like this is a typical offering here what who is that yeah III can say this the sense I've gotten is a is absolutely everybody and but there are there kids occasionally on the way there's an apple out of their lunch or something yeah yeah no in Thailand's the the the children will stand at the edge of the village in the morning and the look for the monks and when the monks come on arms around they go dancing into the biz they promise I'll probably the monks have arrived to let people know it's time to offer but it's the same in the West you know kids will be looking at the out their window and they say mom it's a monk it's a month there's something very basic and archetypical about the monk that that everybody can connect with do you stay around a village for a while yeah and then like you might stay a month or longer around a particular village and then you would walk to a and of course and tell us a little bit about the layout of the villages and walking in New England yeah well I don't have I don't have any specific answer about how long to stay somewhere just a principle that I'm developing and the principle is to not be a burden so I'm very cognizant of if it's the same people we're making offerings every day is this draining on the resources is draining on their time or can I just move through the move through the town every day and different people are approaching me different people offering things when they have a chance and the whole village is supporting me as opposed to just a few people and so that's the principle and I'll pay attention to it because I want monasticism to survive and it survives when it it's good for both the donor and the receiver when when they're getting as much out of taking care of a monastic as I I'm getting out of being taken care of and but I don't stay there I don't stay an overly long time in any one village here in New England the the villages popped up about a horse cart right apart so 7 8 9 miles apart and they're just dotted throughout the landscape some were quite small they Velen that they have a church and a cemetery and that's the town but others with with just enough commerce that people are coming into the town center every day so I I gravitate towards these little towns that just have as a central focus because I can I can go in and without any planning without any preparation without any advance notice I can just move into the center of town and I don't have to say anything you just be there and to be seen and to trust that there's a principle in the universe that good people want to associate with good people yes you know as it's just natural you when when you're good you want to have good friends because it just increases the goodness and and so if I'm just there I'm on a corner I'm simple I am peaceful I am I am attentive to what's going on around me it's it's very attractive to those who would like to have a conversation or to have a good interaction or just just be friendly and and that's often all it takes so I feel that wandering in this in this part of the country can really just be is any day am i within range of one of these villages does it does it have a town center and then I don't need I don't have to think or plan about it just trust in the tradition just trust in the principles that have been passed down for millennia do some people express regret when you leave oh oh you're going their village mom yeah yeah they I mean yeah they it really they're really they're always saddened and it's always heart-wrenching to leave a village when I've been I've been there say for the three months of the rains retreat and I've been dependent on this one village you know it's make-or-break I have to I walk in with my bowl and whether I eat or not is it's just two people value me being there my relevant and after three months people are telling me you're so relevant you're such an institution you give us such hope you give it they say III hold on my bowl and something goes in it and they tell me thank you this is so hard on our culture to give and to feel good about giving us beautiful opportunity how so let's talk about bad weather when it's our you know you're staying under a plastic tarp sometimes you're staying in well what what are you staying it's where the the the do Tonga that austere practice actually there's five of them around shelter and they they describe a place that's apart from the the flow of regular society to flow of householders and people who are sort of wrapped up in in sensuality things that disturb the mind so it could be at the root of a tree it could be in an open in an open field it could be in a cemetery even I was simply to be over stage in the cemetery I have tried it out I've tried it out the one full thing about these principles is since there's five of them for shelter their ex their exclusive like to dwell at the root of a tree and to be in a forest or I can you can do both of those at the same time but you can't do a cemetery in a forest at the same time unless the forest is overgrown the cemetery so I've practiced I've tried each of them and I found that some of them are very helpful for practice they lead to a contentment in a sense that I have appropriate shelter and then others like this cemetery practice I find a completely useless it's just me sitting around with a bunch of stones and corpses saying yeah yeah I I don't I don't quite get anything out of this I and you don't seem to be getting anything out of this and so I feel very good that okay I don't need that practice but I do I love to be in the forest and I love to be in a dry pine forest where there's there isn't much undergrowth and I've found for me a standard of shelter that I can look for that I can look for anywhere I can look out at a horizon and I can see that that a little bit popping up there is is you know that's that's a northern northern pine you know so underneath there's going to be pine needles right out and okay so there's at least some shelter over there and then over there and then over okay and so I don't even need to worry about shelter I never surround him by you develop an eye for this after why yeah and I an intuition about this yeah with that attachment it's it's it's it's manat quite at the level of craving it's just a preference if I were to to pitch my shelter in this and it's maple forest there'd be undergrowth but I do that from time to time to the while I'm traveling it's like oh this isn't good enough and you know it's there's obviously there'll be traffic that goes by but you know it's a night it's a single night you can do anything for a single night do you ever get offered shelter I I do I do and it's always organic it's always unsolicited so I seek to cultivate these practices of dwelling in the forest dwelling at the foot of a tree but I'm if if I got attached to them it wouldn't be Buddhism it wouldn't be the Buddhist teaching if I desired only this practice and shut out everything else it would just be another impediment for peace of mind so I I aim for for being in the woods but I I don't demand it and if somebody is offering me shelter as I'm passing through I really consider is this in line with the Dhamma is this person interested it is is this an invitation to something else like they would they would like to spend time around there they like or they're just concerns in the winter I'm offered shelter a lot and it's because people it actually physically pains them to see me to see me cold to see me unprotected and there's there's no shortage of shelter and I get a real sense that our culture has been missing something it's been missing this this sort of the travelers and this and the hospitality that we all want to provide it really it gives meaning to the things that we have when we can share them and if we guard them and we hold on to them then it's at best it's satisfying me but it's not an offer it's not other it's not blameless because I've guarded it I forwarded it but the moment that I share it with someone it's it's not even a burden you know where were with this is for both of us this is for the support of people and everybody inclines to that they they there's just a sense of trust it's hard for a person who owns a house to live it's just that the average homeless person come in and stay the night because they know this person can this person can have attachments this person can have bad habits this person can have immoral habits but they see a monastic and there's this instant sense wherever I go is it well this is this person you know if he's if he's not perfect he's he's he's willing to try to be he's willing and he's following moral precepts he could not be a monk if he wasn't and so there's a real sense of trust to say this is the best possible friend to have you know it's offer this guy shelter and see what comes of it what's it like when you get sick have you been sick in the last three years I've been almost constantly sick but suddenly sick it's it's human life you know so the teachers will say it's one thing after the next that is having a human body even at its best it is a bag of goo that you have to kind of shift to prop up on a chair there also will slide off on its own but it's very susceptible to illnesses but whenever what do I get too hung up on it you know I might come past you know the bear droppings or something you catch a catch a look and you see these there's maggots there's there's half digested food it's like nothing out in nature is thriving nothing out in nature has 100 percent of the recommended daily value of 78 vitamins as whereas we're taught to pursue in the Western culture as the things again buy and that that is actually quite good like survival is enough do do you ever have to ask for medicine I have recently I've had I had to let people know that I picked up Lyme's disease recently and it's an occupational hazard but and the but far more often than the times I've had to let people know that this has happened is there any medicine around is that people are offering and they're giving me invitations that I'm I just have nothing to do with it they're saying if let's say you know if you if you if you ever need anything you come find me you let me know I'd be happy to provide it so when I got Lyme's disease I I simply I simply let these people know it was like I have pick this up I don't quite know what to do and this is this is this is a rural community where people take care of each other and so there's a real sense of networking and they and they said well there there are these antibiotics obviously you're gonna take these but over the over the decades you know this is where Lyme's disease really was first noticed they've they're starting to get a sense of the herbal antidotes as well and so I was able to just fold in with this natural culture there's there's there's a plant called knotweed that just grows it's an invasive plant it grows all over the place and somebody said oh well that's one of the the local remedies for this and he just went up into his garden he pulled up one that was invading his tomato patch and we chopped it up we made a tea this is what medicine really can be it's you know okay an ailment has arisen we know what to do now you treat it with what you have at hands and when the ailment subsides you don't need medicine anymore you know it's a medicine is for the curing of an act of ill and most of them most of the most of the conditions that we we experience in life don't need a medicine an ache of pain getting old the way of the Buddha said actually it's quite natural you see there's nothing out of place here do you have a chance to teach do you get invited to give a little talk or converse with a group of people things like this I I do and and more and more as people get get used to the to the idea that there can be a monk within reach that there can be a spiritual figure moving through their town most of my interactions especially when a when I haven't been in a place for a while or I'm just coming to a place for the first time it's just like this it's just a conversation it's question and answer is people trying to just just just asking like going to the to the Hermit with their questions about life and trying to get a perspective that they cannot get through mainstream media but then over time people have gotten a sense that amongst because we do this all the time we develop a sort of skill and also that we have these wonderful teachings that are so useful for human life that are centered around the the basic difficulties in human life and provide really clear guidance and solutions and perspectives on how to how to get through difficult times and so they want that disseminated this is a this has been missing in our culture this this the Buddha's the Buddhist philosophy the Buddha's approach to life it helps it makes it easier and they and they wouldn't they would like to hear the Buddhist teaching in a way I'm just sort of stewarding it through the generations for the first year I I sort of categorically said I am you know in my tradition monks are usually not asked to teach until there are ten years that's when we start calling them ajahn from the word acharya which means teacher until then they're still learning there's two learning but after the first year I really got a sense you know there this is not about making me a guru this is not about putting me on a pedestal it's simply because I know the Buddhist teachings it's simply because I am working with them every single day and that these teachings are valuable and people would would like to hear them so I've started to open up to the idea that when there when there's somebody in front of me who is interested in the Dhamma but that is the most important thing not food or shelter or what I'll do tomorrow or where I'll stay the rains retreat that interaction could be the most important interaction in this person's life and and so then I know I can teach I can teach because it's coming from compassion this person is ready and and since it comes from compassion it's wholesome they'll be they'll be no attachment to it so I say whatever I can that may be useful and then I walk away and it's it's a very wonderful practice I have because if I go ten minutes down the road I'm anonymous again our conversation with puto could have gone on indefinitely there's it's a very rich life and I'm sure that he has found this may be the richest three years of his existence it keeps getting better every day and it's also very important as a symbolic figure many young months would our aspired to this idea and a lots of people are what's the lay people also were inspired by this this is an important activity that you're doing this is one reason why I wanted to interview you basically here you compared to the others that I'm interviewing your young monk but and this is a very important as a mendicant monk in this modern society is this possible in this day and age and look you have shown that it is possible not only possible but a rich experience and perhaps we will see more of this and also if a monk goes I would like this then one's relationship to a stable monastery is different you don't feel like there's no place I can go I have to live in this only one monastery forever because it's not possible to be out there so it liberation from that and being feeling trapped in a monastery you're making that choice to live out there or making a choice to live in a monastery of course both are the both are viable options but there is a sense of freedom about that and so you're kind of a leading the way in that showing that it is viable if possible with only with the right attitude yeah one last long if you don't have the right attitude yeah and it's the attitude that as leading the way into a tradition yes for me is just carrying on an ancient tradition and putting that first that's that's what will bring it to the West not to find innovative solutions but to find the real faith that we've got what we need practice excellent so puto Eko

Channel: Ajahn Sona

Views: 43,793

Rating: 4.9615755 out of 5

Keywords: Ajahn Sona, Birken Forest Monastery, Sitavana, Theravada, Thai Forest Tradition, Dhamma

Id: nv9vYTA-ols

Length: 45min 11sec (2711 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 31 2017