My Interview with James J. DiNicolantonio on The Salt Fix

so dr. Nikhil Tonio how did we get it so wrong about salt how did we go from thinking that it was the enemy to now you're saying it's not yeah I mean so I mean basically all our nutritional whiplash so we're dealing with that you know all of a sudden fats good and cholesterol is okay and now salt might be okay it's you know really stems from those nineteen seventy seven dietary goals where you know Senator George McGovern he basically tasked Nick modern who really had no scientific background no nutritional background and hmm - right uh basically Dietary Guidelines for all Americans back forty years ago before we had any evidence no add salt or anything and you know really it just comes down to those those dietary goals were put out for everybody you could go on a low salt diet and it really just carried over into the dietary guidelines which gets updated every five years so was it based on any science or was it just sort of like I think felts bad we should stop eating it right was it was more than that right isn't there studies that show that's always linked to hypertension and chronic disease I mean what what about all that data that was used to make those recommendations right and so it kind of looks similar with the demonization of fat we had Luis Dahl who was kind like the Ancel keys of salt and so I don't know what was in the water in the 1950s but Miss Dahl did the same thing with solve that the insula keys did with baths and cherry-picking populations and drawing a straight line showing that you know in despite popular salt intake increased the prevalence of hypertension increased and of course you know 20 30 years later we had a nurse all which looked at 48 countries not just five anesthetic increased blood pressure actually decreased and so you know studies went back and forth and there was all these salt Wars you know back in the 1900s and a book that kind of go through you know how you know he had some doctor saying yeah when I put my patients on low salt diet their blood pressure goes down and then we had other doctors saying it didn't happen and so we never just really had any good solid proof that a low salt diet prevents high blood pressure or strokes or heart attacks hmm I mean like the - diet well that's the diet but it's also low salt right which is Dietary Approaches to stop hypertension part of that was a low salt diet right and so that's a good point and in kind of what what's been happening mark is we they've been hyper focusing on the minimal benefits of a reduction in blood pressure when we cut our salt intake and in the book I kind of show you just eat hydrating that person's I mean a good thing that you're lowering their blood pressure when you cut your salt intake because heart rate goes up and you're just reducing their blood volume it's not a good reduction in blood pressure yeah actually like vascular resistance and the arteries actually stiffen on a low salt diet we become insulin resistant even that famous - study showed that the total cholesterol to HDL ratio worsened on a low salt diet and directly stress because those salt diet cause metabolic syndrome and one of the reasons why does that is because low salt diet cause insulin resistance because that's our body's defense now what's the mechanism of that yeah it's so the kidneys can retain more salt the body becomes insulin resistant to elevate insulin levels because insulin helps those the kidneys to not just you know retain more salt but it also obviously distort that's a really important point you know I found you know when writing my book and doing the research on it on eat fat get then with my patients that when they change your diet and cut out the starch and sugar which causes also in some resistance and makes you retain salt and water because they in some retain salt they started dumping salt they started dumping water they lost weight but they didn't feel so good and so I always tell people who are eating a higher fat diet and very low carbohydrate diets to actually dramatically increase their salt intake yeah I know that's a huge point is you know a lot of people are suffering with the keto flu and really it's mainly due to salt efficiency right because they when insulin levels drop when you cut your carbohydrate intake you know that just flushes the kidneys out with salt and ketone bodies are negatively charged they'll pull positively charged sodium ions with them and so really the first few weeks of the low carb diet you're matic down lose a lot of salt and water but also the reduction in dietary glucose reduces the absorption of salt and so there's this chronic and ISM where you're not even absorbing salt when you cut your carbohydrate intake as well yeah yeah that's very interesting so you know we've all learned about the harms of eating too much salt but you're saying there's harms from having not enough salt in your diet well what's up what's with that right yes I mean when you look at all of the studies they mean even those who are consuming the highest amounts of salt like six seven even eight thousand milligrams of sodium the the increase in coronary heart disease mortality is only like 20% but if you look at actually if following the American Heart Association advice or the CDC going below 2,300 milligrams you can see a doubling in coronary heart disease mortality so so even when you look at the harms of a very high salt diet it's much less dramatic than the harms of a low salt diet yeah and so some of the reasons is because the kidneys can just flush out any salt that they don't need so we have we have a lot of mechanism safety mechanisms to either absorb and down regulate the amount of salt we absorb if we have too much yeah the entire can signal you know the kidneys to also flush out more salt when we don't need it um the problem is we can't manufacture an essential mineral right so when you don't have enough salt you're kind of out of luck because it's an extracellular mineral it can be flushed out of the body very easily so caffeine yeah it's good for cups of coffee can cause us to lose over a full teaspoon of salt all right all right I mean we sweat it out right like when we I mean exercise one of the best things we can do for our health and yet we can sweat out a half the teaspoon to a full teaspoon of salt per hour of exercise Wow so exercise and coffee are out right know what's so funny is the American Heart Association tells people to exercise they want him to exercise an hour a day and yet they're telling me to eat basically less than a half a teaspoon of salt and you lose more than a half a teaspoon of salt and an hour of exercise and so the the literally when you do the math you're just you're just depleting someone of salt if you follow both the American Heart Association slow salt advice and their advice to exercise an hour a day a lot of people are dehydrated and then their interest cellularly to hide you mean their cells don't have enough which makes you feel like crap so we'll salt that yeah absolutely and electrolytes yeah so sugar is one of the worst actually offenders at the pleading intracellular volume and so basically glucose pulls water from the tissue into the blood vessel so really should we blame the wrong white crystal absolutely sugar is what's causing an over attention of fluid not salt it's crazy to think and I mean there's their studies even by Tim Noakes who show that when you're exercising consuming 2,300 milligrams per liter of volume intake does improve hydration and that's because without salt you can't hold out into a wild ride and so it's all absolutely hydrates the body yeah so salt and gives you more ability to actually maintain your hydration because it hold like it's like the glue that holds the water in your cells so who does need to consume more salt yeah so I mean in the book I kind of go through some of the main populations that are at risk of salt efficiency but you're starting out I know you're kind of you know you're really into the got got health flam Ettore bowel disease and people with Crohn's and also rate of colitis they do not absorb salt well at all because the damage to the intestine right because we salt in the intestine and the colon yeah and so it was silly acts as well who have damage to the intestine and people with IBS don't absorb salt very well and you also have people who have had their part of their small intestine removed or their surgery or even people who've had part their colon removal and they're at our very high risk of salt deficiency because they don't absorb it well and then you have people that are losing salt via kidney damage so what people will understand is that the kidneys their main job 60 to 70 percent of the kidneys function every single day is to reabsorb the three and a half pounds of salt that they filter and so when you eat more salt the kidneys will thank you I can let any extra salt go I don't have to actively reabsorb it and you could damage to the kidneys from consuming a diet high in refined carbs and sugar you're damaging those tubules that help you reabsorb the salt you can start spilling salt in the urine mmm adrenal insufficient see that causes us to lose Saul on his dress right let's dress trout untreated sleep apnea at night those patients lose twice the amount of salt at night and in hypothyroidism thyroid hormones are extremely important for the kidneys to reabsorb salt mm-hmm it's amazing so you've said something in the book those sort of fascinating to me that sort of salt is sort of the antidote to sugar addiction which I talk about a lot I've written a lot about how sugar is biologically addictive that we get hooked on it that it affects the brain the same way as cocaine or heroin and and you're suggesting that we can use another white powder white crystal to actually fix that problem how does that work yeah I know that's a great point and there is definitely like this in Union Yang between salt and sugar I mean literally salt seems to be that good white crystal and the antidote to the bad way crystal sugar and so you know Nature has given us this natural white substance to kind of combat this other one and so what ends up happening is how does an animal know to go out to a Salt Lick you know eat salt right when it's depleted and what ends up happening is the reward system in the brain gets hyper activated when we become deficient in salt and so unfortunately sugar can hijack that activated reward system and so studies and animals have shown that self deficiency can cross sensitize with substances of abuse like adderall cocaine and potentially makes those substances even more addictive because they're more rewarding and so reward drives dopamine release and drives crashes of dopamine which can lead to that vicious cycle of dependency and addiction and so literally adding more salt can potentially reduce sugar cravings and our preference for sweet foods that's unbelievable so essentially being salt deficient makes your brain more sensitive to addictive substances it makes you crave them more like riza which is pretty unbelievable and I think you know we don't think about that we don't we're afraid of the salt shaker no it's like the devil and yet we just have this thing right at our disposal which is pretty amazing so you know there's lots of salt out there right we have iodized salt you know Morton's salt what everybody uses your sea salt is Himalayan salt black salt I mean it's confusing so even I'm confused what salt should we be using yes I mean taking an ax stuff like back just regular old table salt is highly processed and I need to realize this until a few years ago I mean if you look at the back of like your regular table salt there's dextrose added to it it's highly refined and they treat it with very high heat and it's just pure sodium chloride there is no other minerals in it um and when you look at other salts what I recommend in the book is this this Redmond real salt it's from an ancient ocean and so a lot of people are really into these sea salts right but the problem is is they're from modern-day oceans and there's been numerous studies done now that sea salts from modern-day oceans can contain modern-day pollution so they literally commute microplastics nano plastics and even traces of heavy metals and if you're so if you can source it from an ancient oceans like Redmond real salt then you're not dealing with any of those type of where is an ancient ocean well this particular ancient ocean is in Utah and Redmond Utah and so it's actually pretty cheap for being an unrefined salt and actually is really good amounts of iodine and calcium which is why I like it as well and then I use it to dose myself for exercise so how much you take the more exercise yes so what I like to do is Jack generally I work out for about 45 minutes to an hour and depending on it doesn't even matter if I'm running or lifting heavy weights I will use about 1/2 a teaspoon of redmond real salt and I'll add just enough lemon juice to coat it and I'll put about 2 ounces of water and take it like a lemon shot some people can just take it straight I'm gonna depends on your Ellen right yeah salty water wow that's impressive a half a teaspoon it seems like a lot yeah but I mean that's that we lose on average per hour of exercise is a half a teaspoon of salt and none of the sports even come close to having that amount of salt yeah no I noticed when I take a electrolyte cocktail of magnesium sodium and potassium and it's like you know it's like you get a huge boost of energy and the fatigue goes away you know if you're playing tennis in the hot Sun or something and a bike ride it's just phenomenal in terms of how different it makes you feel almost instantly and I think most people don't realize that they could you know use electrolytes and salt to help them actually feel better have more energy perform better in so many ways so what about the iodine issue because you know we take away the iodine you talked about the Redmon's saw which has got iodine the most you know salts that people are using that are not iodized salt don't have iodine and we had a whole epidemic of goiters and issues how do you sort of reconcile that ya know it's a great point so a lot of people think that sea salt is very high in iodine because seafood is high and I done and it's actually the exact opposite yeah salt um actually has virtually no iodine and so even the iodized table salt the actual iodine is artificial iodine it's potassium iodide and some some studies have shown that the by availability might be less than 10 percent whereas if you can get real iodine which is found in red and real salt the bioavailability of that iodine may actually be like a hundred percent it's always goes to show you when we try to artificially copy nature mmm you never seem to like even come close to what the real benefits are but you know a natural mineral contained in salt kind of messes us up right you don't yeah so iodine from fish and seaweed is probably better to add to your diet yeah yeah what about the patients I have you know we we have who have heart failure who have you know salt sensitive hypertension which you can actually look at the genes for like are those people more risk for salt issues yes so I mean so really what my book is about is using real salt to eat real food and exercise more and so if if you have heart failure what ends up happening is 25 percent of people with heart failure actually are at risk of low sodium levels in the blood mmm they actually generally need more salt even though they're retaining salt more they're actually over retaining water in our risk of like own a trainee oh yeah so what ends up happening is you know patients with high blood pressure and salt sensitive high blood pressure generally it's due to the in so resistance caused by this high carbohydrate high sugar dummy and you love the sugar and you can fix the salt sensitive hypertension it's such an easy fix yeah it's powerful so the other thing you sort of wrote about was fascinating was about putting salt in your coffee and I remember being in Tibet and they had salty butter tea what's up with that yeah I mean salt kind of cuts bitterness right so coffee can be a little bitter in a lot of restaurants actually people don't know this they're always at man I would I love this coffee it when I go to this restaurant because generally they use just a little bit of salt and that's because it cuts the bitterness of it and actually can provide a little bit of sweetness and so yeah I mean you can use up to probably 1/8 of a teaspoon of salt per three cups of coffee I wouldn't go more than that but you have some people like a little pinch of mineral salt in their coffee in the morning so I should put it in my coffee that their ground up and put it in the in the coffee machine is it gonna mess up the coffee machine yeah I don't know yeah I don't think it would mess up the coffee coffee machine now Jen that's pretty amazing so what what are great ways to include more salt in your diet and how much it would be including me do one or two five teaspoons a day you know how much right well if you look at um Japan and South Korea who lived the longest right they consumed between four and five thousand milligrams of sodium per day they're the highest salt eating population in the world and if they live the longest now the lowest rates of corn heiresses mortality so just from that perspective I don't even know why we ever feared salt even the Mediterranean diet is not a low salt diet right it's high in seafood and clams and cheese and olives and you know anchovies and all these salty foods right really that's what you want to integrate salt in your diet is eating real real salty foods or you can add real salt to taste and I mean my kids anyone any parent out there knows their kids are not gonna eat bitter vegetables or nuts or seeds without adding some salt to it right but we're so afraid of salt we'd rather give them a little salt junk food yeah what about you know Michael Moss's book salt sugar and fat about the role of the food industry putting these ingredients in our foods to make them more addictive like do you know about that book and like what's your take on the whole salt because it is something that's added heavily to processed food correct and really what I always go come back to mark is don't blame salt for what the sugar did yes processed foods are high in salt but that's that the salt isn't the issue it's the carbs and the sugar that are causing you to over retain the salt if you drip drop the processed carbs and sugar it the salt should be completely fine it's amazing so you know what were the most surprising things to you that you found in writing the book the salt fix which by the way is pretty amazing book I encourage everybody to go get a copy because you know it'll turn your world upside down and also make you feel a lot better when you change from salt restriction to including salt and I by the way I got like five different kinds of salt in my kitchen I use it liberally with all the food I cook I sprinkle it on I've got crystals a Malayan salt black salt all kinds of salt and it's like it just makes food taste good and I don't worry about it and my blood pressure is like 90 over 60 that's awesome that's such a testament and it sounds like you got this salt mixology going on and really yeah and I'm an old guy like 50 you know 57 I you know most guys might have blood pressures like 140 over 90 but I don't eat sugar and starch very much and and I includes a lot of salt and it just seems to work yeah I think honestly one of the the most kind of impressive things that I found is that the people that have been messaging me after reading the book saying you know dr. D I had muscle cramps muscle spasms or heart palpitations for three years no one knew what was going on within days of upping my salt intake it all went away yeah it's that was the actually the catalyst which started me writing the book is when I was a community pharmacist my patients were coming up to me with these symptoms of salt deficiencies their doctors had put them on low cell diets for hyuna clubbing and yet within a few days of upping their salt intake boom everything kind of went away so yeah these muscle cramps especially at night so many people have messaged me like they they go away when a salt intake and really it's because we don't realize how much salt we lose through sweat through caffeine through these low carb diets and medications and disease sticks that cost salt loss but one of the really cool things I think you'll appreciate this is if we don't have enough salt we actually lose magnesium and calcium from the body and so what ends up happening is more than a week rattles ya know exactly when we go on a low salt diet in order to maintain a normal sodium level on the blood the body starts pulling sodium from other places and one of the places that pull sodium from is the bone and yet these osteoclasts they're not smart enough to just strip sodium they end up pulling magnesium and calcium with that so what I like to try to a lot of people who are like well magnesium and potassium those are the best minerals well you can you actually can't maintain your magnesium status unless you have ample amounts of salt and so we even sweat out more about amazing than calcium on low salt ice because it's the body's defense mechanism to hold on to the salt through in sweat and start sweating out more magnesium and calcium so really low salt diet so like the worst thing you can do for your magnesium and calcium levels in your body and by the way so many people are low in magnesium which has so many different symptoms from headaches to constipation to insomnia anxiety to palpitations to muscle cramps all of which are common symptoms that people have and they don't realize it's a magnesium deficiency and all the things we do in our culture alcohol caffeine sugar stress all causes also deplete magnesium so we're this sort of mineral deficiency state most of the time sodium magnesium potassium potassium is from plant foods vegetables which most of us don't eat enough of who eats you know eight cups of vegetables a day I do but probably most people don't so I think I think that's it's really a groundbreaking paradigm-shifting book which by the way you know you really you know rarely see a book like this in my view that it's so groundbreaking and so paradigm shifting because it's so against our conventional wisdom it's so against what the government recommends what American Heart Association recommends what your doctor recommends when nutritionists recommend and and we've had all these unintended consequences from this like just like we've had from the low-fat diet craze and it's very similar story it sounds like how he got it so wrong and and you should really brought to light why we got it wrong and what to do about it and the good thing is it's an easy fix on what I'm telling people to do it's hard we just stop eating sugar you're saying just add salt which makes sure if it tastes good not so hard sell no exactly yeah it's great any any last thoughts you have we want to share what you found in your work that we should know about yeah it was the other interesting thing is which I think you'll appreciate is you know people understand that salt equals sodium but they forget about the other essential mineral in salt chloride fluoride is what's mix of hydrochloric acid and so when you go on low salt diet studies have literally shown that you there's a reduction in stomach acid and so you probably not able to digest food as well absorb nutrients as well and potentially prevent bacterial overgrowth and so you know these minerals are essential and if we don't get enough of them we can't just manufacture them and so it's very important that we're getting an optimum oh that's unbelievable right that's something that we we don't even think about it was the other side of the equation which is chloride in your gut so it's all connected which is really powerful beautiful so what what research are you most excited about that you're engaged in right now that you know we're gonna look at for coming forward from you yeah so um been doing a lot with omega-3s how their beneficial and how omega sixes are harmful so I have a few research papers that are submitted and also magnesium deficiency I have a large review paper on that coming out and all the way what are the real ways that we should be kind of testing for magnesium deficiency cuz I think there is a you know there's a lot of misinformation out there on how to diagnose that yeah how do we diagnose it yeah well one of the best ways the gold standard is actually an IV magnesium low task only that requires someone to you know 24-hour urinalysis and an IV literally an IV magnesium load in the hospital but probably the easiest way is mononuclear sell magnesium and so nobody sell magnesium no actually in our paper red blood cell magnesium is actually worse than serum magnesium and because there's there's these chefs that happen in the body like if you exercise a lot of the magnesium will go into the red blood cell and it seems to be this reservoir so there's a shifting a lot of magnesium interest not very reflective of a true deficiency yeah is that something you can order a monitor clear Reds magnesium level you know I honestly don't even know of a lab that doesn't yeah order oh yeah so it's me always it's interesting that some of the best ways that we should be diagnosing mineral deficiencies we don't even have access to it and that's part of the problem that no pharmaceutical industry is really diving in and trying to figure out what are the best tasks for probably what's driving 80 percent of chronic disease nowadays is just these mineral and vitamin deficiencies yeah it's true I mean but the thing is you know getting magnesium it's not patentable you know it's cheap and it's accessible but yeah I think magnesium deficiency is one of the biggest things I've seen my practice and let us say I diagnosed it through symptoms the ones I said you know symptoms are a great great model for actually diagnosing it because they're obvious of headaches anxiety palpitations and saamiya constipation muscle cramps palpitations all that stuff people can report to you and and you can just ask and you'll figure it out ya know I mean III think you're you hit the nail on the hat is that we really need to look at symptoms and so even with salt efficiency low sodium levels in the blood is not even that great of a way to know if someone is deficient and souls really symptomatology right it's if you're dizzy when you go from a seated to a standing position or you know just integrating salt back into your die and all of a sudden these symptoms of muscle cramps and spasms go away that's a much better way to diagnose yourself they're easy aking yeah you just need to see those sort of classic salt deficient patients often they're tall Fionn women who have anxiety and who have palpitations feel dizzy when they stand up and you give them salt and so well I often give them licorice which is actually helps you retain salt it's a it's a kind of mineralocorticoid effect so it's very very powerful now what about something you just mentioned I wanted to take another couple minutes because I picked my curiosity you know the current recommendations and I'm going to talk about facts one my favorite subjects pair recommendations from the American Heart Association from top scientists around the world as we should be cutting saturated fat and we should be increasing our vegetable oils corn oil canola oil soybean oil safflower oil all these oils that we never consumed 100 years ago and and you sort of mentioned briefly that you're doing a paper on the dangers of omega sixes which is these refined vegetable oils and it's ok to eat him from nuts or seeds but you can't get that much from those how much nuts can you eat but you can down a lot of vegetable I mean fact 10 percent of our calories are these soybean vegetable of refined omega-6 oils so what is what is it that you're finding that about these and how and how would you counter someone who says well all the data show that a poof azar better for you and you should increase your vegetable oil consumption to reduce heart disease because it lowers LDL right exactly and you kind of just kind of answered it right is we've literally just humanized saturated fat due to it potentially raising LDL and we've kind of given a health halo to these vegetable oils simply based on this one surrogate marker because it lowers LDL kind of like salt right the one surrogate marker it lowers blood pressure so we think it's going to translate into a reduction in strokes and heart attacks and it's just not as simple as a leads to B leads to C but even if you look at any of the randomized studies any study that has actually replaced saturated fat with vegetable oils is almost always shown an increase in coronary heart disease mortality and what the what you know what was unfortunate the 2015 Dietary Guidelines did not include Chris ramsden meta-analysis that showed that replacing saturated fats with vegetable oils actually led led to harm they excluded the meta-analysis I don't know how you do that Leon that's selective reporting that's happening with these omega-6 is like you said if you get it from nuts and seeds you have this protective coating protecting the omega-6 from going rancid and nature is very smart it packs those nuts and seeds with vitamin E to prevent that omega-6 from going rancid yes it's that is so different than something that is being stressed of let's say seeds and now it's being exposed to high heat it's already full of these lipid peroxides before you even ingest it and even if you get an abundance of fat you're honestly just drinking rancid fat exactly and even if you consume like an organic omega-6 that hasn't been high heat extracted the problem is is your stomach is a bioreactor and so when that omega sex without a coating from nuts or seeds is hitting the low pH of your stomach it forms lipid hydroperoxides and it forms all these other harmful effects on these especially these aldehydes which can bind the DNA and protein and severely damage our bodies so you're consuming this oil that is very susceptible to oxidation and that's why and that go those harms are much worse than a reduction and any type of benefit you would get from a reduction in LDL and your what you're saying is it's such a contradiction because you know guys like Walter Willett from Harvard these they've done huge population studies now they're they don't prove cause and effect but they've they've taken all that de-tangle you know we really should be eating more vegetable oils and less saturated fat and it's sort of really going counter to the prevailing wisdom and how do you reconcile that like what would you say to Walter Willett yeah well I love it and so there's a couple things going on right most of the studies combine omega-6 intake totally they don't just look at vegetable oils so they combine you know the mega six from nuts and seeds and everything and say okay those who are consuming the highest amounts are at the lowest risk of heart disease they don't ever actually tease out and say no who's the population consuming high amounts of vegetable oils so they don't really strip the two out in general mmm the part is that everybody's consuming high amounts that will make a sex and so the population studies never actually find a population that are consuming a loner relative right exactly so consuming basically someone who's consuming high amounts with very high amounts and then the other factor is they look at blood omega-6 levels and they say people with the lowest blood omega-6 are at the highest risk of heart disease the problem is this inflammation reduces omegas in the blood because it's susceptible to inflammation and oxidation and so it's a it's actually reverse causation is what's going on people with low on maybe six in the blood that are at high risk of cardiovascular events is due to the underlying inflammation that is lowering their omega-6 in the blood it's not it's amazing yeah the other thing I think you know you might have noticed is that a lot of the studies that showed benefits of these polyunsaturated fats include omega-3s and when you separate out the studies that just look at omega-6 is without omega-3s they actually show harm which is what you're talking about the Ramson meta-analysis and the Sydney heart trial and even you know even the most recent Minnesota cornea experiment review of the data was was where they looked at saturated fat this was a study that could never be done now because it was you know there's there's it's very hard to do nutritional studies most of them are population studies which look at food frequency questionnaire they don't prove cause and effect they find associations there's other things that can explain it but a randomized control trial is a more definitive study and and it's almost impossible to do those nutritionally because you got to lock people up feed them different diets for a long period of time and see what happens but you know free living humans don't behave they go out and eat ice cream when they're not supposed to or they do other things so what they do is they took a population of mentally ill patients in a mental hospital and which you know would now would be unethical to do and they gave half of them saturated fat hide saturated fat diet and half of them omega-6 diet corn oil and they found that even though the cholesterol was lowered for the corn oil I'm in fact for the every thirty point drop of the LDL they found a 22 percent increase in heart attacks and deaths so even though their cholesterol quote got better they died and they got a heart attacks compared to the saturated fat group which at that time was like close to 20 percent saturated fat in that group which was pretty striking and they increased the vegetables to like 300 times 3 2 percent I mean in the in the omega-6 group so that was a compelling study for me because it's very hard to do those studies we're highly gonna get them again and the data was really good in these studies are very well done an nih-funded study very rigorously done by great scientists who actually believed the opposite and didn't publish the data they hid it in the basement for 40 years until doctors Bramson himlen actually started to ask questions and dig around there's a great I don't have you heard it James has a great podcast by Malcolm Gladwell on his podcast revisionist history exactly about this story looking at how this got buried what happened and the data around it's pretty fascinating it's great any parting words you want to share just stay salty stay salty all right so everybody get the salt fix check out dr. nickel Tony's work his research papers are amazing I love them and his website is what the salt next it's not fixed calm okay great well great to have you on the show and we'll talk to you soon okay see you Murr

Channel: Mark Hyman, MD

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Length: 34min 11sec (2051 seconds)

Published: Fri Nov 03 2017