Muhammad Yunus, banquero de los pobres y Premio Nobel de la Paz - entrevista con Juan Del Cerro

[Music] you welcome everybody all the community in the troop do I am very very excited today because we are with nobody other than professor Muhammad Yunus professor thank you very much you you are in here in Mexico for only two or three days you have a very busy schedule so I'm really thankful that we have this time with you professor I cannot tell you and I want to say in front of everybody you've been one of the main inspirations in my road to promote social entrepreneurship here in Mexico and in Latin America all your books your work is your vision is inspiring and and I want to start the interview talking about a little bit about your vision during the years that you've been working with social entrepreneurship you've you started with a very specific project that was Grameen Bank and now you had this very broad vision of our world with three zeros that's that's the title of your book tell us a little bit more about that what is that vision of the world of three zeros the basic issue that I have been raising that there is nothing wrong with poor people poor people are as good human being as anybody else as capable as anybody else simply the system that we have designed doesn't allow them to express their talents express their capacity and take care of themselves so it's not poor people who create poverty poverty is created by the system so if we want to change the life of the poor people to get them out of the poverty we have to focus on the system okay change the system so that they are not become a barrier for people to come out today they are they are producing poverty and protecting them just from getting out so this is what we're explaining if we let the system be someone too supportive of human talents and creative power then we can create a completely new kind of world and I can define that world it's a world of zero poverty nobody will be a poor person because it's not in the person zero unemployment there's no reason why anybody should be unemployed it's a very strange concept unemployment and zero net carbon emission so that we protect the planet so all this possible provided we change the system and one basic question on the system part I raised very strange that economics interprets human being as someone driven by self-interest or selfishness and the whole economics is designed for that purpose to allow human being to achieve their selfish purposes I said that's very wrong a starting point to assume human being is a selfish being is missus statement is a is a Florida statement human beings are selfish but at the same time selfless to that selfless part is completely forgotten into the economic theory so we created economic theory based on selfishness so the world has become selfish everybody sees themselves for their own purpose of gaining more accumulating wealth and so on and so forth that they don't see the prospect ability to change the world which belongs to other people so we if we interpret the human being closer to the real human being as selfish and selfless then we need to create another kind of business today there is only one kind of business selfish business yes maximize profit so I said today we are the theory has given us glasses with dollar sign we see the world for dollar sign we don't see anything else I said this is the wrong glass we got to be closer to the reality we should have been bifocal glasses with dollar sign and also the people sign we'll see but you can do both there's no problem with that so once we agree then we need to have different kind of business to allow selfless part to play today selfish part plays because there is a selfish business by summize profit what happens if you create a business on the basis of selflessness that business will be dedicated to solving people's problem global problems rather than making money for myself and that's what we started calling social business and defining it as a non dividend company to solve your own problems in that business we are not interested in making money we are interested in solving problems business is a very strong tool very efficient tool in addressing issues in a sustainable way why don't we use it for solving people's problem so each person can do both can create business to make my night because people don't really think that you either make business or make change we think they are yeah I'm saying human beings have made a boat selfishness and selflessness we are not denying anything so you express both way today we are expressing only one way that's what they create the problem problem of all the poverty and unemployment and environmental issues and so on so the whole design becomes different and then each student says young person and the family will be tall as you grow up you can work for a social business or you can start a social business and at the same time you can work for profit-making business or only profit-making business yeah but what button you can do simultaneously how much of each you will do will depend on what you want to do with yourself okay will your life whether it is 50/50 whether is a 90/10 also 99 and one which one we want this your choice today there is no choice I really like this because it I think it changes a paradigm and I that's what we've in the rooty have been talking about for the last five five six years then we used to think that if you wanted to make social change you have to be sort of like a martyr right you have to go all out and help other people and don't be able to create value for yourself but the thing is then you can create both you can create these businesses that is good for you because a lot of people most people need to grow themselves to provide for their families but you can do that while you are creating a world is more fair for everybody else I'm emphasizing that it's a choice yeah it's not something that you are stuck okay it's the lack weird now we're stuck because only business we can do is to make money there's no other kind of business so when we bring the social business into the picture people get surprised what is this was if you're not making money how can it be business exactly people cannot even think that you cannot it can have a business not to make money but to solve people's problems because that idea was never given them in school in today when you bring it that naturally grow up what they want to do why would you want to do that and such a third sector so this is the most important difference that I was seeing in a economic theoretical framework if you change it world will change and then another issue in the economic theory that I have been emphasizing in order to make the selfish world happen they assume that everybody when they grow up they have to work for somebody else find a job as if job is the destiny of human being I said that's a very wrong idea human beings are not born to work for somebody else human beings are born to express their creative power express their creativity each individual human being is packed with unlimited creative power but to theory to say that you have to go and work for somebody is a very damaging thing because the moment you accept a job you surrender your creativity job and creativity don't go together do your stock every day think absolutely you're driven by instructions somebody instructs you you follow that even if you hate that instruction still you follow that that's a part of the job so you completely take up your creative power you don't use it anymore you give it to put it in storage while you're working for somebody somebody else so I said why should we sacrifice ourselves as a human being that unlimited capacity that we have so a person with unlimited capacity with great potential suddenly becomes a small human being to fit in slot in abyss in the in the company in an office and something I said that's very damaging so I said all human beings are intrapreneurs so this is a guinea reverse of the conventional economic thinking conventional economy is always busy to create jobs and so on so I said no job creation exactly we should be focusing on mentor preneur operation absolutely that's what the creative power comes in and suddenly we see world in a completely different way so and we have to tell the young people as you grow up you start thinking I'm not a job seeker I'm a job creator and I behave like a job creator as an entrepreneur I become an entrepreneur so that's another direction the moment will become intrapreneur the system doesn't work for us because system is built for jobs yeah not for me so we have to be designed the system particularly financial system financial system is to redesign so that if I want to become entrepreneurial come and support me so that I can express myself as an entrepreneur so there's another point that I want to tell and that's that's what you've been working on lately no in providing financial support for people that want to become entrepreneurs absolutely we always did like microcredit yeah the poor women exactly take a small loan $20 $30 $50 loan become intrapreneur millions and millions of women all around the world became entrepreneurs they're not job seekers so my question is if it's straight woman in a village can become intrapreneur with $30 loan how come with the university degrees and all the knowledge you have to go and work for somebody this is one of the and I want to make a stop here because this is one of my probably my favorite points of what we're talking about now in your book because because we've work that's what we do in India we try to inspire motivate and support people that want to become entrepreneurs either social entrepreneurs or micro intrapreneurs it doesn't matter and and a lot of people and we've had studies out this and and large media have published that data about this and and like it's I think it's like 70% of people don't start a business because they are afraid to fail because they think they don't have enough knowledge they are not experts in this object they don't have enough funding and then you come and you I heard you one of your one of your talks I think it was having Google or in the Smart City Expo one of these you said I wasn't a banker when I started I had no money the women that we have start with her no more tell us a little bit more Ahmad because I want I want people to lose the fear of starting their own businesses how can you with all your experience inspire us to jump that barrier yeah about Grameen Bank and microcredit that we started some 42 years back at that time I had no idea what banking is how it could be done I was not thinking in terms of banking either all I was trying to do is to protect the victims of the loan sharks so that they cannot exploit these poor people by giving loan and grabbing everything they got so I was thinking how to protect them so that loan shark cannot come and give everything from them the idea came to my mind the solution is very simple why don't they give the money myself before the loan shark give the money so that she doesn't know he doesn't have to go to the loan shark then the problem is so it's simple it's not a big document so what I did I stick took money from my pockets if you need money I don't go to the loan shark that's done and it became very popular everybody wanted to borrow from me that didn't go to the loan shark I was very happy that it's being served it being helping people to overcome their problems so this was just a one-on-one relationship I give the money and tell whenever you can you pay me back and people are very happy to do that then as it grew me bigger and bigger then I have to put it in a kind of a some kind of a system but I don't know how it is done so I started looking at how banks lend money to people because I have to learn how to exactly go so once I need see the issue in the bank how would they do it all I have to do is to do the opposite okay so every time I learn something I do the opposite they go to the rich people I go to the poor people okay they go to the city I go to the village they ask for collateral I said no collateral so everything I learn on the job doing that practicing it true trying it out not everything I did was you immediately successful you have your failure failures and that you men did change it and that's how it's learning process Switzer learning process it became a global phenomenon became known as microcredit it's all over the world in changing the world and you said other people are afraid to be failed and again I give the examples of these illiterate women in the village they're afraid to but they take the risk this question of taking the risk business always has the risk of failure business doesn't come in a guaranteed package so you're taking a risk and when you successfully get excited and you want to do more if when you fail you get very small then we said don't worry about it business is always failures this is not the only time to be in future the also fail but keep on trying so we give fresh loans start all over again start all over again now these terms you become successful so this is how it works so if you are afraid that it will be a failure then you'll never get it started yeah so it has to be something business means you have to go through the learning process you have to go through the process of failures and success it's a same sign of the rose as part of the world but what motivates you when you were starting and when you faced some of the biggest failures you ever have when you probably you fell down and you feel ashamed what was the force that inspired you to try again and again and again until now but in those early days when you were starting in Dhaka what was the forces that push you to take one more step one fate that I had always that nothing is impossible we may mistake sometimes you feel but doing things and achieving things is not impossible it's a question of keep trying once you keep trying in a different way it's a learning process you did it it didn't work you do it something else do it differently and damn it works that's how it works so it's nothing comes in and kind of a guaranteed shape that this is nothing comes like that no form no formula you have to discover your own path your destiny and same same same thing and another learning process that I had I skip saying that as the economic system works I said if you go to the same road you always end up in the same destination I love that phrase if you want to go to a new destination you have to build new roads there's no escape from that so if you keep on doing the same old thing again and again you end up with the same thing again and again if you think about this new destination forget about the roads build your neurons III love you agree with with me but do you remember the movie they were sort of us yes when they they tell the people you have to go on the yellow big growth and I think that that's what happens to a lot of us since we were born we are always taught about this yellow brick road go to school get a job in a house but sometimes or or actually now that we want to create a world of with no poverty no carbon emissions and and and no the employment yeah we have to get out of the yellow brick road there and build our own Road the color we want it to be absolutely that's it III love that tell me tell me now changing a little bit the subject you started these 50 years ago I think and and when you started Grameen they were the concept of social business didn't even exist how do you see a how do you how do you see the evolution of social bill I think that a revolution is going on most countries have either big or small initiatives about social ability is still not a mainstream thing we have a lot of work to do and we're here to help you do that but how how are you satisfied you think I'm not it's going on or not enough what what you're feeling on the on the evolution that social business has have in the last year's in all over the world I would say both sometimes you feel frustrated this is not going fast enough at the same time you feel amazed let's eat how much has happened 45 years back we have no idea that this idea will be anywhere we just want a small village now today's a global everybody knows everybody worse everybody's using the same technique but at the same time it has not become universal meaning that every poor person have access to financial services it doesn't happen it's still very selective people I said why can't we make it universal every human being is entitled to financial services I keep saying their financial services it's like financial oxygen if you don't have oxygen you cannot drink if you don't give the financial oxygen to people they cannot economically breathe and they we call them poor people the moment you connect them with the financial oxygen they become a life become active and creative and they come overcome their poverty come out of poverty and so on so forth this is so fundamental but it's still the banking system has not accepted has not changed at all so we talked about changing the entire banking system this banking system still stuck with making money for themselves and it's become a tool it became a vehicle to make people super rich the richer you are most likely the bank will come and support you to become a still richer yeah but if you're poor they will not come anywhere near you I said that's the wrong system the system should be other way if you're poor banking system will come and help you to will come and then we go from there it's not only banking if you have money then everything works around you for you and the other way it's yeah this this is all the idea of the whole problem of wealth concentration all the wealth of the world is concentrated in fewer and fewer hands 1% of the population of the entire world owns more than 99 percent of the world of the interval so remaining 99% of the population on only 1% of the world so what kind of system is that it's because it happens because financial systems support the people who are rich they become super rich so the system is helping to become the concentration of the world faster and faster as a result we have created a social explosive situation a ticking time bomb because bottom is becoming empty and this few people in the top becomes super super rich and that cannot go on forever so this will create a lot of political tension social tension and the strategies you can a system that we know before it happened who I do not really design it the designed economic system so that all the world doesn't go in one direction well it goes back and forth what are the things that talking about these one of the things that I that I like more about your work is that unlike many other people you don't say that we have to destroy what I already exist or we have to do we have to throw everything away and start from from scratch but it's actually learning from what already works and really and really signing with purpose it to to feed those who have the way I try to explain it they're saying this is not the fault of the people who even fault of the rich people not the greedy people there no system works that way yeah system simply pushes them to go higher and higher and higher they said what can we do since its system works for us we make use of the system in the process what is happening if you own all the wealth of the world you own everything you you're not only the owner of the world you are the owner of the media so media is controlled by them politics is controlled by them every day business is controlled by them so they no matter what kind of government you have is the people who have all the wealth in their control they dictate the government that they take the policy they decayed the banking dictate politics and everything else so if you are talking about democracy in a situation like that you cannot have a democracy so your only democracy for namesake nothing else we go and vote but that boat is controlled by somebody else okay I want to take this because it that that's obviously exactly what it's like for Mexico for Colombia for a lot of these countries in in Latin America we have a lot of concentration of power of wealth and very few people and families and you have millions and millions of don't have access what do you think in your work and you've traveled all over the world what do you think are the main I don't want to say challenges because I think we've talked about that but the main opportunities that countries like us most people that are watching us right now are not part of those families around on the wealth but actually people that do want to do something what do you think countries like like us which we may resemble is in some ways Bangladesh for example what do you think are the main opportunities that we have that we could take advantage of to start creating this new system new economy from within no because obviously if you have all the money on the power and you're watching us please get involved but if not what what can we do what can we take advantage of our countries right now with all the turmoil and all the other problems but there's also a lot of resources what do you think are that those resources and opportunities that are happening we can take advantage of one way I try to explain to young people I tell them that look you are the most powerful generation in human history because you have all the technology in the world which no other generation ever had so your generation has enormous power with the technology in your hand and first we realize that that yes you have enormous power in your hand then ask yourself the question what use you are going to make this power for because if you do not decide what to use you are going to make use of it it will be wasted you had the Laden's lamb you could have touched it and the genie would have come out of it and you would have told that you need to do everything one impossible and it would be possible but you had the lamb but you never tested genie never came out that should not be the case you become aware that you are the power you have enormous power you are the genie and make sure you know what the genie should be doing change the whole world you have that power so this cuts across all the young people not the young people for poor families and middle and all the rich everywhere everybody so I'm not excluding the rich families yet they have the same young people they want to see changes from themselves to they become victims of their structure that the economy has built for them they have to get out and say no this is not the way the world should be I want to be somebody who can make a difference for the whole world I want to be useful to the most Society useful to the world not just doubled my triple my wealth with my grandfather left behind and that's not something that you would like to feel proud of you feel proud because you touched this world and make the match difference and things have changed completely because you have the ability to do the whole change the whole world not only your life so that's the kind of thing so today I'm very happy young people are paying attention to it across the board which people find poor people doesn't matter and to see what direction to go how to build that new road how to build the new road to go to the new destination zero poverty zero and employment zero net carbon emission how to make that happen and at the same time remembering nothing is impossible it's our job to make it possible I love that because sometimes it feels like it no way I can change poverty no way I can eradicate that's not fair tried and every single person can do that that's incredible professor I want to ask you maybe a couple of different questions obviously around this topic a we do also have a lot of people in the audience that are that that they simply don't want to be entrepreneurs they are either working they're lawyers or doctors or working large corporations what do people that are not going to start a social business can do to help us create the new economy this new system how can they from different sectors even government know people that working in because we work without great people in Mexico in different government offices that are really really working for our country how what can they do if they are not going to start a social business which is ok not everybody will become a social entrepreneur but people around it can also support it right let me put it this way I may not run a social business but I can support a social business i invested in social business well I'm still working for somebody else in the government or the company or something but that doesn't mean that I am NOT nothing to do it sort of is of course I have something to do itself I like it and this my idea and I contribute to that idea I contribute to them and I financially support them connect them with each other to the social business can take place and I can design a social business I don't have to run the social business I could design I want to solve the problem of unemployment how do I design a social business to solve the problem of 10 unemployed young people so that they don't no longer remain unemployed that's what the social business does it's all problem how do you design the business I design it I put it in my Facebook and they'll say this is great can I take this idea and start the business yeah go ahead so you can contribute the idea so you don't have to say oh I'm immune I don't have to if you don't want to do it there's something else if you want to do it there are thousand and one ways how you can do that you pass around information from each other this is a great work you support them giving the policy support from the government or your company your company can create a social business on the side as a parallel business you can be instrumental in doing that so many many doll you can play how to make this changes take my ultimate goal is to build this new road which will take us there so I have to be part of that road building I cannot just stay with the old roads and look at the neros being built and I didn't do anything that should not be it inspector we don't need expectations absolute all that better Hazari never get into attraction that's incredible and and in that same and in that same matter how about large corporations have you mentioned a book search companies like that non like McCain that are doing work supporting entrepreneurs in Mexico we have other companies like CD Banamex we have Walmart we have MetLife people that are companies that are already supporting social entrepreneurs what what do you think the key role of them are is it only financing is it empowering somehow hiring social companies what do you think they should everything and for every company corporates or non corporate entities profit-making company I said every company should create at least one social business of its own okay one within it which is a part of their company I have a company a I have big business and make money but I created a company B which is the social business owned by Company A which is a profit-making business but from Company B we don't take any profit that's dedicated to social business its worst day and if I feel that yes it's working well I can expand it I can take it wherever I work suppose I'm a German company or a French company working in Mexico so I make money out of Mexico so as I do that making money from the Mexico I create a social business in Mexico so that my profit can be invested in a social business to solve the problem of water in Mexico or education in Mexico or healthcare in Mexico or employment in Mexico whatever so I created socialism so every company can create at least one social business as they grow they can make more and more social businesses businesses have lot of creative power they can use this creative power to solve problems to it's not just only making money from Mexico I'm part of Mexico also because my fortune comes from Mexico so I participate in that I can be a Mexican company I have a responsibility to change my society so I create a social business I can be outsider but I have a responsibility because I work here I I feel good that I'm not just making money and walking away I'm becoming a part of changes in the society do you think this is like this should be whoa it sounds like it's an evolution of corporate social responsibility no because this is going to be these social business that the companies can create who will eventually be sustainable so you won't need donations every year we won't need volunteers if it can run as a different government so it's a nice evolution of what a lot of companies are already doing which is social stability which is great and it's very important what difference of the CSR is responsibility and CSR you take a small part of your profit and give it to NGOs and others to do good things to people which is good you do it as a charity I'm saying yes you continue to do that but you can do better you can use your own money CSR money invest under your name create a company so did you say this is company a we created this business to solve the water problem I'm not giving it I have not written a cheque and say I'm done I in myself my company becomes involved and run this and I'm responsible for this company if it doesn't do well play me yeah sorry I take responsibility and I take the pride because I have done something and that pride will take me to do more and more so this is directly getting involved so several steps beyond just writing a cheque and give it to angio it's already okay so professors thanks so much this conversation has been amazing I want to close with giving people somebody to take the next step so well actually two questions the first one would be what companies other than the one that you're creating because you're creating a lot of companies a lot of social businesses what what companies inspire you right now what social businesses that you've met in the last years you think are really inspiring examples because our audience always love to learn new role models new examples of social businesses what do you you may be met somebody here in Mexico already or in another country Mexico just alright but you know the country say this this company is doing an amazing work you should you guys should check it up you have any other each day they're always new company new ideas coming up and it's very exciting to see things happening one thing very exciting happening in Paris I was saying that sports can be part of the social business sports were sport today sports world is about making money you make lots of money advertisement and so on so it's all commercial purpose I said sports is such a powerful part of human life this can be also a social power why don't he use this power for social business so I give examples how it can be done friends took it very seriously so they became a candidate for Olympic 2024 and they were selected as a site for Olympic 2024 we work together to design Olympic 2024 as a social business Olympic everything will be done in their Olympic with the social considerations of the housing the catering and everything so that it has a lasting impact in the area where it has been held so that lives of the people in that area will will change permanently by holding this Olympic so now you have a whole new campaign going on within the sports world to create a sports world whether you are a club sports club you are a football club you're a cricket club you're a hub some other club you can devote yourself in solving the problems in your neighborhood your members and so on so forth do that so International Olympic Committee became involved in it to create social business across the board to their own network of socialism their Olympic Games and so on so on so this is one it's actually only the Olympics and the World Cup have kind of a bad reputation because they leave behind so this is a completely reversal of that girl and I think it's an example that that sits very well with this because it's not only changing one thing it's changing the system so if we manage to change your limp exten anything is possible and right the other one which is exciting at we'll be discussing in Mexico so but plastic plastic is going to kill us yeah so now many initiatives in social business coming up even the plastic companies themselves joining in to create social businesses to stop plastic ending up in the ocean destroy our environment and so on so this is another area so we see this initiative coming up in many countries we have created you know sports unis plastic hub to encourage this type of activities and so on and the third one which is encouraging is for the young people in the universities many universities setting up you know social business centers so that they can keep courses on social business and so on right now there are 74 universities including several in Mexico which has you know social business centers so they undertake social businesses that bring the business community together to design social business and so on so that it goes across the board in different direction to the young people and being it in academic world we work with over 150 universities and I think that's a great so things I'm very very happy to have had this time with you we have to run because you have a big agenda I just want to thank you so much professor I want to send a last message to our all of our audience do you want to recommend them to get your book to follow you to learn more about their me what do you think would be the next if they want to take action right now what can you learn is the book the world of three zeros they can have a copy of the book because lots of things this has discussed it's already there and it's available in Spanish language and yes of course many other languages in French Portuguese German and Japanese and so on so they can have a copy of the book and go through it and participate in thinking processes and ideas and maybe your one simple idea where is a small idea has grown so big change the whole world you never know what kind of thing that will come from you so you have the potential to come up with the idea to make the change the whole world professor thank you very much it's been an amazing accessory here with us and I hope this is the first of many conversations I have of many collaborations so we can bring social business to everyone not only Mexico and Latin America and all looking forward thank you [Music]

Channel: Disruptivo TV - Emprendimiento Social

Views: 7,101

Rating: 4.939394 out of 5

Keywords: Muhammad Yunus, Banquero de los pobres, Emprendimiento, Emprendimiento social, Emprendedores exitosos, Grameen bank, Juan Del Cerro, DisruptivoTV, jóvenes emprendedores 2019, microcreditos, credito, bangladesh, A world of three zeros, Social Business, new economy, young entrepreneurs, iniciar un negocio, start a business, entrevista, special interview, special show

Id: CIWrh6zUcpc

Length: 38min 33sec (2313 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 16 2019