Mormon Stories #999: Dusty Johns - Facing Excommunication for Being Same-Sex Married Pt. 2

so at some point you decided to kind of actively attend church yeah a couple months before Tate and I met that was this year that's 2018 right last part last year so I through 2017 yeah so after my seven after my maze as 2017 surgery when I survived sure I attended every week after that point that kind of revitalized your faith and you're like I'm sticking with faith yeah and I have some I have some concerns with showed some doubts yeah I do but I have not found anything else out there in the Orthodox religion sphere that that comes close to filling that void that I have you wanted to stay Mormon I wanted to stay Mormon a faithful active Mormon yep so starting in spring of 2017 your attending church yeah and I never really stopped fully attending but I was attending every Sunday are you comfortable saying what Ward mistake or do you know what it's not at that time it was I didn't want to be in any ward single ward because I didn't want to be pulled in I didn't want I was afraid of having a bishops interview not that I was sleeping around but at that point I wasn't gonna hide that I was gay right and so so you're like doing everything you can to attend church but not yet but not get called busted right right not get caught right and again I wasn't sleeping around but but still I felt this because we all know what I mean I mean do we even know it's still very like sporadic and that's but a frustration right now we've had our bishop well don't get that let's give the story okay so you go to church you're going to church trying not to get caught yep no no in in 2017 I just go to church and so you I'm going to Salt Lake almost every other weekend trying to meet different members and affirmation I met a guy who works for the church her work for the church he's since come out as gay I was married was doing North Star and he had a North Star buddy I think they were cuddling and he kissed them he kissed the guy and he had this anguish how dare he do that this guilt almost to the point of suicidal thoughts and so I was learning about Northstar i from the very GetGo I had this wall up about Northstar and you know the things I told you about the guys that were Mormons and gays that were trying to hit on me they would all go to Northstar and get up and be like all we're doing this you could do it too hoorah but they weren't doing it and then privately they're rapidly hooking up with men and so just basically living up you know working very hard being a good dad taking care of myself and my kids and going to church for all of 2017 okay and so today and you meet that's when you meet to meet Tait we we start talking over Instagram he'd been Instagram friends for a while I didn't know that he was he didn't know that I was he was what okay okay and but just having a admiration for the things he was doing and I think he was liking some of the things that I was doing on my facebook and one night we just we messaged each other and he was going through some struggles I was going through some like I was kind of getting to the point where like I don't know how long this celibacy thing's gonna work I'm really struggling with just trying to find my place working a lot again that's always been my thing I mean your DJ in Idaho Idaho Falls okay and also working at a retail store and like just working as much like good to not again allow myself to avoid ins turning it off yeah yeah and for me it's easy it was easier to be a dad because since it's not about me anymore it's about them you know and what my what would I be embarrassed if my kids were doing some of the things that I was doing and then Tate and I said let's meet let's let's meet we met at Olive Garden and we had a reservation or we had a wait so we were sitting out in my car and just talking about some of the struggles that I had had some of the struggles that he had had and I knew immediately that I was going that we were gonna be very friends immediately from the first time I saw him I could just tell a countenance about him and and I could also see the pain that he'd had so we started talking and then we started kind of dating a little bit you know but he was the first example of my life where I was like I can't this is hard to control this is hard to be like to not go further and it's very natural just immediate love we were both like you felt all the things that you didn't feel with your wife absolutely immediately yeah to talk about that piece of the puzzle or like you have a tire that's unbalanced right and it's just causing so much chaos in the car and it's shaking and you're doing damage to the tire and at the car and you put one little weight on and suddenly it runs smoothly I felt like my life was running I felt I felt close to God I felt peace and when you have a whole life of not feeling that suddenly it's there it's dramatic it was dramatic for me but I didn't want I never wanted to push Tate in a direction that he didn't want to go I like I said I loved him from the very beginning and I didn't want to do anything I didn't want to like let's say hook up and then he had been good and not done anything either and so I didn't want to send him on a tailspin because you've opened this door right and suddenly you're just hooking up with everybody not that he would do that but I was I was very cautious and I think he was very cautious with me of what we each needed and you know it's hard to explain it just I think for both of us it it was just peace and normal and I'm not gonna tell a story but the thing that stands out from what he told me was he was told so a year before he told his family that he was gay and they wanted to be celibate and of course Mormons gays you can be celibate you can do it that's what he was trying so he's reading his scriptures he was going to the temple he was paying his tithing he was doing his fast offerings he was serving as a ward mission leader gist this man has a level of the standard that is above most but he felt empty inside and you okay I'm supporting I'm not supposed to feel good am I not supposed to feel better by doing these things well the church says you'll find peace and joy if you just stay celibate but he wasn't and so we kind of connected and I remember talking very beginning that I wanted to be married I wasn't gonna sleep around and you know I wanted a commitment there so before we ever got together there was a commitment we had a commitment to each other he was worried about marriage he didn't want to offend God and I was open to not because I loved him so much but I think the the thing that stands out for me during that courtship is just a mutual understanding that we wanted to protect each other and we wanted each other to be at the same place and over the next course of weeks and months marriage seemed right and we thought you know we were going to church every Sunday together together now is this in your own board at this point huh which word Matt do you want to say what warders patello okay and we were going and we would get some looks but didn't matter to us we were just you know it was important we were there and I remember thinking waiting for hate we're gonna call you in and hey this is gonna but I we thought that it makes sense I mean it makes and now it's interesting but the church let me just say for us it made sense that if we were married it should be lesser we're committed or monogamous we have a commitment to each other we're not breaking the law of chastity right because it's between legally and lawfully married so we talked about that for several weeks we got our families well they gave our families a few weeks to process that we were together that you know that we were living a gay lifestyle and we weren't going to be sell it anymore and that's hard for your family it was hard for our families but we we gave them time we were around them we showed them that not much is gonna change we just we wanted to go to church and we weren't kind of we were gonna stop that and we got married in a very small ceremony we didn't want to make anyone uncomfortable so very small ceremony just by the river and Idaho Falls in May of this year and it was incredible and and since then it has been incredible one thing I didn't say is before Kate and I got really serious well even before that so my ex-wife got married was starting to date she got married a few weeks before we did but what certainly today this guy was pretty serious and my son my youngest son who had no idea that I was gay at all zero inclination I mean nothing I mean unless he could tell or you know some of these six years old and he said he goes daddy what are you gonna go on a date I said I don't know buddy but what do you think should I go on a date he goes yeah I said okay well look at that and he goes are you gonna go on a date with a boy or a girl and this little perfect it didn't matter him he's just curious so anyways a few weeks later or a few months later Tate and I are really starting to become pretty pretty attached but I wanted it was important to me that the kids did not have this sudden change right and and I had done some counselling in the midst of that and asked questions like when do you tell your kids and how do you tell your kids and the research that they had said is the earlier the better probably before puberty and so I just wanted to watch what and my kids are very shy very very shy I get I'm in radio a lot of random people come up and the kids hate that it's just they don't avoid zits in their bubble and so I was curious to see how they were gonna react to Tate and Tate we got into the house he was already in our house I was taking my coat off we just walked in the door and we were walking around the corner and both boys are on the couch just talking just happy you like he was like he's been a part of their life forever I've never seen that before and I've never seen it since so for me it was like okay there's some signs here that this is good so um we tell the kids probably a month and a half later we just left my dad's house and I was very nervous about that but they were completely didn't it didn't even face them and we got married and I've been we hold hands around the green belt and I told Falls we've had I was prepared very public figure I have contracts that say you know my behavior can't be offensive to the public you know I was I was for sure thought that they would find a way to let me go they've been nothing but loving and supportive and kind and generous you're no station I don't yeah okay friends family we made a video on Facebook that was like hey everybody we understand this is all new but we just want to cover a puffed-up and aid and kind of let you all know outpouring huge outpouring of love not a single bad message and I had always pictured it being like oh we'd get this aggression or this hate or it never happened we've had one lady where walk around the Greenbelt and this old lady on the bike called us disgusting and we laugh you know we we say it's like she smelled her own breath or something and I just try to blow it off but literally one person has given us anything but but love so at what point did you guys start attending your current ward so we got we moved to from Pocatello Idaho Falls in April and we were and this kind of shows how religious we still are we were praying to find the right war to find the right Bishop to find the right state president because we had other examples of it not being excommunicated and so we hoped so you were aware of other couples that were same-sex married yeah there were not being there were attending church and were not being excommunicated right we can't name them right because that's inconsistent and it's maddening that you know I would rather yeah yeah no I don't want to but but isn't it maddening that there's this roulette where and I'll tell us yeah go ahead about the Sikh president yeah interview yeah no right now no well so you started taking this war because you've seen other gay couples who have been left alone by the bishops in what states in Utah and Idaho okay all right so you're thinking we're good week well we knew that there was still a chance you know it's kind of like roulette the robo-lizard ice hopefully you get a good enough bishop the bishop that understands and have you heard of others be nice communicated yeah yeah was it was it rare yeah I think it sounds like more I think that's about the time you and I started talking and yeah you kind of said well it seems to me like it's they're on a hiatus like they're not really doing that and so we kind of had this and either way it wouldn't have mattered we weren't gonna go and lie yeah and I know a few weeks ago there was a letter that you posted and people are why are they even saying anything let me just share this a few weeks before we even decided to go to our to find our new warden Idaho Falls we met with one of tastes friends good man young man good heart good head on his shoulders and he goes wait a second you guys are planning on going to church and we said why not what I don't know and I was like what do you what's the confusion he was I won't do that I he and he goes I just had sex two hours ago but I'm not gonna tell my bishop and to me it was like wait a second I believe that God exists it doesn't matter what the bishop knows or doesn't know what does God know right I don't want to do this in the closet hiding thing I want to be me and so we go into church on Sunday with that idea we're gonna be us we're not going to be like making out in the pews but we're not gonna we're also not going to hide who we are right we're not going to show any more emotion to each other than a husband and wife should show in church and we walk in and things were great walkout to attend the whole block we come home everything's fine waiting sure enough few days later the door knocks Bishop walks in with with somebody else and he goes hey we just just coming in and what month is this this is an April I think okay okay when he's first move it either a coal or Maine okay it was pretty quick all right and he said in our living room and I said bishop I'm in a very open with you here's where we're at I kind of told him the brief story and he goes he goes you taking the sacrament and I said we've decided that we should probably not we weren't married at the time yet and he goes well I don't see a reason why he shouldn't be taking sacrament that's important he was let me find out on that said okay he goes we're gonna love you you're welcome and he left and Tate and I just bawled held each other's balls like maybe there's a change maybe we're not gonna be angry we're not gonna be mad we're not gonna you know come in and make me be uncomfortable we just want to be us and so we kind of celebrate it a little bit told our families I think that helped our families a little bit as well and kept going to church and I think the second or third time we went was State Conference and we got a new state president the other stake president had been called over 70 and our state president was new and in the meantime we'd had other people that came in this is a cool story our very first Sunday there we had a couple out of California that came in and they the very first Sunday we're talking about prop 8 and how good it was and how the church stood its ground and defended a traditional marriage and we just sat in the background it just kind of looked at each other and after what we thought you know that was interesting and it's too bad I don't think she really understands her I don't think they really know much about what gay people are struggling with and so we just kind of noted that and a couple weeks after that the husband of that couple started calling us dusty the rock band or something he just really started to be friending us the elders quorum president over loving us telling us his examples of gay people that he knows who struggled this incredible amount of love the ward members of every every Sunday we'd go and somebody new would come up be like hey we've heard about you can we help you with any we love you like just love just great the ward itself has been perfect absolutely perfect and what's the name of the word see lunch Lakes sage lakes sage lakes warden that'll fall steak North steak idle falls north stick I think okay temple districts of the temple it's rolling right by the temple and so we're thinking okay maybe this is gonna change president basic and your stake president comes in meets with us Texas hey I need to meet with you guys can I come over right now so we're like oh you know holding our breath come over we're again open knowing that it's probably we're thinking that eventually may lead to excommunication but that's not gonna change who we are what we are and what we want right and so he comes over nothing but love nothing but love so the bishop calls me one day and says hey I know that president basic is asking the upper higher-ups what he should do and they've been told to pause and I said why it was all like all I know is that the Public Affairs Office is involved okay and I think at that time we started hearing this is back then in May this is probably June June okay probably June okay and pause what pause our X artists our disciplinary Council okay but they were talking about it Bishop told us that the stake president had been asking and that first he said that he asked one and then they asked pretty high up I don't know how high up but several layers up in the seventy and they said yes proceed so he was getting ready to call us and then he got a letter from the public affairs office saying wait so they start waiting where's was waning and then the bishop basically says he even reads me the letter that says and I don't mean I don't mean for this the bishop has been incredibly awesome and he's expressed to us his frustration because he's kind of been like what do we do hey help us understand like do we do we Disciplinary do we not can we give these guys are calling we love these guys we want to give them a calling and help us out they haven't had any guidance and and so we find out that there's this letter that from the I think from the public affairs office that basically says hey we're from Idaho this guy that writes I'm from Idaho I know the members there very well we're gonna leave this up to you Bishop a state president you decide what you want to do and this is always you know I'm this is second and third you know levels I'm not hearing this firsthand from anybody but the bishop had read gotten a letter I think from the state president and he was reading as parts of the letter so we we think okay we're waiting and then we think well the bishop the city president came over he gave us nothing but love he's been open he's been kind and generous and says we're always welcome we think this is gonna be okay and then the state president calls and says we need to meet and I didn't go to this meeting Tate went to this meeting alone I was at work or something and the state president basically told Tate that they needed to that they were going that they needed to do a disciplinary Council and that there were three options no action the disfellowship are excommunicated and I got the distinct feeling at that point that they wanted that it would be better for us if we were separated and then I got sick I had some infection a sinus infection and the stake president was very kind waiting you know we didn't really hear anything and then we finally were like hey president when is this gonna happen like it is incredibly hard to not know your fate in the church so watching Sam Young's thing and the agony of well it's gonna happen and I'm sure I'm gonna be excommunicated the weight of that is incredibly hard it should not be prolonged right so we're having it we're not we're having it we're not okay so what two weeks okay so that goes on for several months yeah for about a month in half I was sick we're on this pause and then I texted I was president basic a water where we at with I think we met Solomon's Church on Sunday and he said well let me know give me a text we'll meet in the next couple weeks that's like why pause there's a policy right you would think and that's why the station president heard the bishops re was so frustrated he's like there's a policy why don't we just enact a policy there's got to be whatever the handbook says and he was expressing frustration to us because he didn't know what he was supposed to your bishop yeah and we he had people on the war council who were like we want dusty we want to eat we want to give them callings and the bishops like as you were legally married yeah and this was the test case as so many people are hoping for that that at least you just be left alone you could serve in callings you're showing up with your beautiful children let them be award level it's been incredibly it's been great so did you not have callings either of you this whole time no callings no but I remember I got asked to call to say the prayer one time and I was like okay and everybody was like hey you did great I there's been several times where of like I really feel like I need to bury my testimony not like in a all the church you know and they're gonna shut me off and cut me down but just expressing the things that I know and then I believe but I felt uncomfortable doing so so I haven't done so you've never borne your testimony on in the work never taught a lesson or anything like that no so silent members but members he loved members who were loved yeah I would say so I thought that members of the family that I told you about in California when I was in the hospital with my little infection was there every Sunday she came over they wanted to hear all of our story they loved us were like there they don't have kids they don't have kids locally and so they just have loved us so hard they went from not understanding what gay is to praising prop 8 to truly on every level loving us we get text messages messages from them every day in the ward she's the Relief Society president surrounded by people who were really mean and nasty to her you know some some in our Wars we can be mean to each other we can judge each other really harshly so we go last week we go to this to probably two weeks ago now president basic says let's meet on Tuesday and 8th so we show up two weeks ago present basic sits down we sit down he goes hey I just want to read something to you he said there are three and he's reading the handbook now there are three areas where the church recommends a disciplinary Council and he lists all these off like incest and murder this is the last one this is first so you might have a disciplinary council if you've done all these things and one of them is had homosexual relationships all right might have a disciplinary council and then he says at the bottom here's where it says you have to have a disparate Council and I'm just gonna make clear rape and incest is optional right for a disciplinary Council right okay and I think murders also some murder as must okay okay at least that's what he said there was I don't member the four of them all right just it with child abuse yeah yeah yeah adultery yep all optional yep okay yeah all right and sir I was thinking okay so wait if I'm having sex with lots of random people you might have a disparate counsel so I'm just listening and he goes here's where you must murder I think rape or like a confirmed rape or something and homosexual marriage an apostasy and a pasta pasta and suddenly this wave of like wait a second I'm in the category of murderers that's where you put me you must put me into that that doesn't make any sense to me at all and and John I can take I can take this I've had the blessing of having some experiences and where my faith in God is strong but there's a man that I love but I know so deeply who is so Christ look so good he's not a bad person and he should not be in the category of murderers and and I remember like it kind of sucked the breath out of my and my lungs I remember like whoa ton of bricks and he said and I felt I believed him he said you guys I've gone back and forth on this I've he said I've often asked God to do I I'm not gonna do this and then he feels like oh no God wants him to do it okay can I just pause you for a second I I was pretty sure about this so I'm gonna read it when a disciplinary council may be necessary serious transgression it includes but is not limited to attempted murder that's may forcible rape sexual abuse spouse abuse intentional serious physical injury of others adultery fornication homosexual relations especially sexual cohabitation deliberate abandonment of family responsibilities all those are like maybe you know if your spirit guides you yeah you rape a child maybe beat your wife maybe right right attempt to murder somebody we'll see okay when a disciplinary Council is mandatory opposition to church leaders teaching as Church doctrines stuff that isn't Church doctrine after being corrected by their bishop okay following apostate sex right like like fundamentals groups that advocate the plural marriage after being corrected by their bishop formally join another church and being in the same gender marriage sorry i've writers in the previous category yes along with rape it is but it but you truly go what yeah but that does make it doesn't make much sense yeah i'm a logical thinker I'm not a big scholar i I you know I've read the book of Mormon several times I there are several scriptures that the you know speak to me but I just go where do you have to be to believe that that is that's fair and I remember looking over at Tate and I thought I felt this emotion kind of building up in me like wait a second you can do this to me but it's a different level when you're doing it to somebody that I love and care about and so he said he didn't feel like whether or not he should do it he didn't know and I said then tell me this why why are there members in Salt Lake that aren't me excommunicated he goes I don't know okay you don't know but we're just gonna still do this we're still going forward with this so he said he kind of told us that how it's gonna work you know six people that will be there to support you six people that will be there to defend the church and they'll all meet together and and everything will be fine so I left there thinking okay we're gonna be okay I already we've been prepared for this it's not fair it's not right but this is where we're at that was I think Tuesday and then Sunday we were with our family and we had a text hey we need to deliver these letters to you so Sunday night we were home knock knock knock this is Sunday this two Sundays ago yeah the Sunday before general yep yep okay so yeah week before the Sunday of general comments a week from you yeah we can go from yesterday yeah yeah and we get this letter and I don't have I don't have it memorized but I was bothered by the letter like you've been reported to be acting in opposition of the church or in act you've been reported to acting in behavior that is unbecoming a member of the church and I was like wow I remember telling - that's pretty that's pretty cold you know president Mays I would sure love and I felt a lot of love from him but this is pretty cold pretty emotionless but it was fine you know whatever it is what it is we're gonna have this fully expecting that we're probably going to be executed let me read the letter the state presidency is considering formal disciplinary action in your behalf including the possibility just felt men should just fellowship men our communication because you are reported to have participated in conduct unbecoming a member of the church meaning legally lawfully monogamous same-sex love you are invited to attend this Disciplinary Council to give your response and if you wish to provide witnesses and other evidence in your behalf the Disciplinary Council will be held on Tuesday October 2nd prior to General Conference at the time at 8:30 p.m. at the stake office at the stake center you know Hill Falls right now did tape was it for you and us we both thought we both got letters okay and we were told we both be able to be there for each other we wouldn't have to do individually which I was worried about because I've always felt like their goal is to separate us obviously if we can have sex with each other about being married and that's a might then they're gonna want and that I mean that isn't healthy it's not healthy for anybody and to try to separate somebody that has a companion and a family and I mean it's just there's so many levels to that that being wrong got the letter that's fine we went to bed Monday morning I wake up to a text from the stake president hey dusty wait something happened in between what what happened in between I sent you the letter sent me the letter yeah I was like I think I did that for because again face to face with the state president dusty I love you dusty you're welcome you're welcome here you will not be left alone you are wanted you are loved I'm sorry that we have to do this who knows what the outcome will be but we're doing it and all the while still be even deeper than this these men I'm in media I see I hear about these suicides all over the place and we've been trying to figure out how do we what do we do how can we stop this so I send you the letter and I didn't even know that by the time that I got the text I didn't even know that you had posted it but I got a text from him that said so so you you shared it with me right I shared it around 6:30 that morning right right right and by 9:00 and I blacked out anyone's name or even location or anything location yeah I just said this has happened to protect you know because I wanted to make sure and protect any confidentiality my it was just to say whoa right right right this is right before General Conference you know this you know and honestly I was hoping to try and stop it so I I reached out to one person that I know who's connected to people super high up right and I just said I thought these things weren't being enforced and this person said to me that's what I thought that was my understanding let me make a phone call or two and this person asked the general location so all right that's all I know and then it not what nine nine o'clock right right after kind of fast right hey dusty he said hey dusty I'm sorry to do this to you but we need to postpone this this council and I was I've came back with like are you kidding me again now at this point we'd already gone to our families our families fasting for us this affects more than just hey deny affects my children it affects his family affects so much I said are you serious this why and he said I don't want to see miss quoted yeah he said actually I just got a text from him he said I said can you give me a reason why we appreciate the text but this is incredibly heavy on us and our family he said I'm sure it is dusty and I'm very sorry I received direction to wait until after conference that is all the information I have I said thank you almost like a peer I like I was thinking wolf maybe he didn't get the memo maybe he didn't know that these things were being postponed or not enforced or maybe it'll be some awesome announcement of general Carl's mom you were hoping for though yeah Yura texted me you're saying job do you think this is what were you saying I'm hoping that I mean what were you hoping I was just that maybe some maybe if anything not again I've had in laws that have been like what do you expect that allow you to be married in the temple no that's not I don't need that item not expecting that I'm demanding that I'm hoping that eventually we're not going to be at this place where you cannot do this and if you do you're going to help that's all I'm hoping that's what I was hoping for it's just some understanding hey we're we is the Brethren of the church have access and we have people looking at statistics Deseret News the other day the suicide rate is going up it shouldn't be going up because it's two times the national average as is Idaho day after day last week three young men between 13 and 18 years old committed suicide in Rexburg and two of them all but sure that they struggle with LGBT issues they know this so what point are we gonna go we don't know when I'm fine with them even saying the Lord hasn't given us direction yet but to be taking two people that just we're not hating we want to be members of the church I support I sustain the Prophet I want to stay I want to go to church and I know there are people on the letter that you posted we're like this is ridiculous they shouldn't even go I get that there are people that have those opinions and I respect them for having them that's what we want and regardless of the outcome we will still continue to go for one reason well for a few reasons but we're not an Dan Reynolds son that said this on his Ellen interview and he said this at love loud which I loved I was there he was an incredible day but he said we do not change hearts from the outside throwing bricks and what an example to me our ward has been they'd made all they have are the examples that they have are you know the church telling them it's bad they've never seen a real-life couple just trying to make it work and so we hoped we hoped that there would be something somewhere to give us some change but I just got a text from saying he wants to work at at October 16th at 8:30 so we're still we're back on now nothing happened to conference he's been given direction to continue and here we are so eight days from today will be disciplinary Council for you and tape yeah you were gonna say why you want to keep attending why I want to yeah that example of what Dan said I believe that so the only way to effect change is to do it from the inside but it's just to change the church no because I don't I don't at this point I don't think they're ever gonna change the church itself the foundation of the church I don't know if they're ever gonna change I have to give up hope on that I have to stop hoping that that's gonna happen because all it's doing is it's playing it's playing with me it's playing with my emotions and you know I don't want to I can't continue to put myself on hold it's because we talked about that unbalance I feel the most of balance when I'm still moving to church and and this this is the main reason for this interview John I don't want to be here publicly talking about my sex life I feel like I have ties shouldn't have to be I don't want to be here talking about president this or that or whatever I just want to live my life but I have and I don't understand how elder Oaks can get up and have a conference talk that he shared on Saturday and not care when you have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of kids committing suicide every year because of this issue one you go back to the very basic principles of the gospel this is the time to prepare to meet God right that's what we're told what about these young men and these young women what about them it keeps me up at night it keeps me up what if it was my son it could be they don't deserve to be treated like this I don't deserve be treated like this I can handle that the man that I married the man that I love the man that I'm monogamous to that I love that I cherish that I respect he doesn't deserve to be treated like this thirteen year old in Rexburg last week who hung himself thirteen years old it's not fair it's not right well life's not fair you're right it's not go back I'm an apple you're supposed to be an orange okay then tell me how I become an orange you tell me and Tate and I are both been in the same situation if you can show me how it's supposed to work how I'm going to be balanced and happy and fulfilled outside of this apostate gay marriage then okay then we have a discussion but they don't celibacy does not work Josh weed I throwing him a mate it doesn't probably doesn't want it I mean he it didn't work mixin Orientation marriage did not work hasn't worked for many there's a few people that seems like it's working good for them that makes me happy for them it's not working it's not working as a major model for the young people in our church our data show it they fail 70% of the time and for those who make it work they're bisexual they're not all right right and in that when they work work meaning they white-knuckle it and grin and Barrett for many maybe not all but for many it often means very low quality of life and that just comes is that the point of life is my depression high depression low quality of life high distress just not healthy happy relationships for many there may be exception right right but it's on a bell curve and those are very rare and and that should be what we're sharing these 13-year old men they're hearing an apostle that they sustained and believed in say what they're saying I mean this the quote that stands out to me that there were several and during that talk I was listening on Saturday you know our disciplinary council has been put on hold so we're like well maybe something's gonna come right off the gate elder Oaks comes up and it just it's just how do you how do you even find any good in that and they're usually there's like hey you can't do this but we love you I didn't even get that in that talk it was shame on you for trying to change the church change yourself again you can't change yourself you cannot do it I have done everything that I could possibly do and I have hurt people along the way the mother of my children I love I care about her and I've heard her that's not fair that's not her fault it's not my fault I should have known better but and this it's not you know maybe there's like a couple hundred men throughout the church that are struggling with this no it is much deeper than that it's five five percent no if it fit not more men and women yeah yeah at least Italy yeah and and I I mean the stories that I hear are many many many men who are married staying married who are on this cycle of okay okay okay I can do it I can do it I can do it just got to be faithful got to be strong oh shoot I messed up I got on Craigslist I hooked up I go to my bishop oh okay we're gonna repent we're gonna come back around and I loved Josh Cheryl who was on Mormons and gays finally he has a blog and it's somebody he's somebody that I looked up to farming guy with me and Shelley and he finally said he he noticed that he wasn't happy that his emotional wealth his spiritual wealth health was stronger because he was going to church and he was being celibate but his emotional health was failing and his whole family knew it and he started dating this guy same thing monogamously trying to make it work talking about marriage and his family suddenly goes what's up you're happy dude you're normal you're your balance what's going on are you dating somebody well actually I am now here's another example he was on Mormons in case he decides that he needs to be with a guy right find somebody gets engaged he comes up to the church and says hey oh and I want to do this right get me off Mormons in case get me off that I'm that's not working for me nothing but love he got nothing for beloved from the guy that he went to which was his mission president and I think his was just take God with you that was a guidance he was given by the church just take God with you but we going to church paying our tithing well we stopped paying a few months ago but paying our tithing for years and years up until just recently we're bad enough we're amongst murderers and apostates just like cent you talked about Sam Smith it's just concerned about an issue term young Sam young yeah Sam Smith's mu sin Smith we are so afraid of people speaking out that we're gonna banish them and condemn them to hell it doesn't add up to me spiritually it doesn't add up to me emotionally doesn't act up to me logically and and I've just been waiting you know the church comes out with norming sin gays and it does all these videos of these families I'm celibate I'm making it work I'm in a mixed orientation marriage that are making it work if you look at the history of Mormonism in the history of evangelical Christianity and Judaism and all the Christian religious traditions the church in every generation will put forward these role models whether or not either they're not living it at the time they're put forward as role models or very soon thereafter they aren't able to you living it and the church never actually says yeah you know those people that inspired you to go ahead and lift that celibate life you know those people that through our polish multimedia inspired you to get into a mixed orientation marriage well they're now divorced or there now with a you know in a same-sex relationship they never bother to tell you that those slick media ads that convince people to follow this path they never tell them PR or about the carnage of the mixed orientation marriages that fail they don't ever follow up and say warning this is super dangerous this is super risky it's harmful people get hurt they just keep coming up with new generations of role models new North Stars you know new poster children for LDS Living merriment it's not working with no accountability for for the carnage and the collateral damage that's left in the wake and now we have it here that the role models on Mormons and gays I don't even know thing to do with the website because they can't use war Mormon anymore so they're gonna have to come up with a new Latter day Saints and gays or something right but they'll come up with new videos there and it'll be the same story it makes me as a member I'm still a member of the church and may as a member of the church it makes me go when did it become more about the the next cool fancy PR campaign instead of just doing the right thing because it's what Jesus would do I was now what I mean aren't we all Christian aren't we all just trying to be a little more like Christ telling me this is what Christ if I if if Christ walked into this room today he's telling me he would he would use the words that telling these jokes Sherrod no he wouldn't not I guess for me that's all that matters that's all that I could control you know and I I don't want people I want people to see that it can work that they can't get that balance where they can still be spiritual they can still believe in God they can find a balance that works for them and they don't have to go out and you know lose all of the things that they hold dear they have to leave their families the families don't have to leave them you know I mean you it's just it's time it's not worked for decades it's time to look at it and go maybe we're wrong here maybe we maybe we should take it that's all I'm saying and what seems really ironic because I I don't have evidence that the churches is like sending out spies to track down same-sex married couples who have left the church so it seems like you're being punished like you said for being faithful right right like the people that the same-sex couples that stay faithful are the ones that are most you think you would be like you said your most faithful still believing not apostates still attending but not paying your tithing monogamous legally married that's worse in the church's eyes and sleeping rid of you were married people cheating on your wife leaving your wife home alone and your kids home alone while you're running across town to sleep with some other married man it makes absolutely no sense and I sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy like why am I the only one that I mean I know I'm not but why why aren't they seeing this so so what do you say to the listeners that are like hello McFly dusty now the church is not safe for LGBTQ people what are you doing get out what look look into the camera tell them why you're doing this and I think I I think it's weird looking here but you know I think that you just you just use the example of we have all these campaigns of things that aren't working and the church isn't changing so I love what Dan Reynolds said he said I don't want you to dismiss take my passion for anger because he's not angry it's just time to make a change so I can I have a choice I could be angry and mad and leave the church and be frustrated and go out and tell the whole world that they're not true and they're not writing this letter whatever right that's what we've done we've been angry I'd loved also what Tyler said he was angry and and he's not now and I noticed that even before when he was on stage he's not angry anymore who does it benefit for me to be angry does it is it going to make the church change no it's not there have been many angry before me and there will be many angry after me so all I can do is like I said I'm losing sleep over these young men who are committing suicide all I can do is control what I can control and change one heart at a time and I know there's a ward an incredible little Ward in East Idaho who has loved us embraced us wanted us welcomed us and who wants us to be part of their lives I'm sure there's a few of them that made me feel uncomfortable I don't know if that's a whole ward but the feelings that we have walked away with is that and that has happened because we were brave enough to go in show our true colors stop hiding stop pretending to be straight and normal I understand why people do it I truly do have done I did it for a lot of years but that does not help them it doesn't help the church it doesn't help the church progress it doesn't help the members progress clearly it's not so this is the only thing that I can control and and going back to I was lucky enough to have some experiences where I truly believe that God knows me that he loves me that he loves me a married gay man he loves me he welcomes me he embraces me he wants me to be there and so I'm grateful for those experiences I had a friend just Friday there was a friend of mine who slipped and fell on a bowling alley and she Horsham I guess ligaments in her neck and she got spinal meningitis and died I had that twice why did I survive I don't know I don't know that I seen that every single day it's not about me it's about trying with all I can to help that 13 year old young man I don't know how I get to him I don't know how I help him to see that there are two easygoing normal I mean I hate saying that word guys who have a just our home looks just like any other home our conversations look like any other conversation our kids are being raised just like any other kid we're making it work we have peace we have completion we have balance and other people can have that too it's never been a choice which I think makes me even more angry that the church is now saying get out now they're not saying get out they're saying hey we love you you're welcome but we don't or it works we've got to punish you for it we might punish you for it let me say this if if the if there if we're just having this disappear disappearing disciplinary Council to have no action or disfellowship what's the point to scare us what's there's no other point to do it other than to make us go oh we better stop we better get divorced because the church has said we can't do this but this to the church do you think that we're stupid enough to not have done dotted all our T's and to done that have done the research and to known because I've done that I've met thousands of gay men affirmation and all up all over Facebook there's secret Facebook messages out there with hundreds of men who are just trying to do their best they're trying to balance what they think the church needs them to do and and to put that into the box of who they are and they're struggling and they're contemplating suicide every single day so this is the only thing that I can control we will most likely be excommunicated next week it's frustrating but it is what it is and we're going to continue to do what we do some I've had this theory for a while others share that there's nothing more dangerous to the church than having these loving committed monogamous same-sex couples show up sometimes with children and just be lovely ward members singing in the choir serving our colleagues praying showing faithfulness and humility and love and kindness and creativity and passion and intelligence because then the members start thinking well what's what's wrong with this why is this bad and fall in love with their kids and fall in love with them and from a from maybe dark point of view they're worried that that empathy and compassion for people like you will spread and the yeah that is dark it's really hard to they compute that they can't have the membership becoming empathetic and supportive of your very normal lifestyle but and I don't think I think that I don't think they can control that because the people that I talk to they're going why are we having so many suicides I mean I work with a couple of church members pretty active and we're having this conversation the other day know I'm gay but they were like man so many suicides do you hear about this thirteen-year-old kid and and they I think I think the bulk of the membership is starting to go what are we gonna do and for me and I wasn't planning on sharing this but for me I go I've always believed that the church is true and that President Nelson can get on his knees and he can receive revelation and so here's a problem that is facing him a large majority of its membership if not directly but families and friends and everyone else right this is a problem what does the Lord want to do about it the Lord hasn't said I'll just tell them to you know be celibate because that's what I I love everyone else more than these these men that have chosen this and so they get to watch their families and their friends have kids and they just get to be alone their whole lives if they even make it to adulthood because they might take their own lives that's not what the Lord is saying so then I start to go and it's actually having a reverse effect on me so what revelation are we getting because we don't have an answer they don't have an answer clearly three times hey we're gonna hold we're not we're gonna have it we're gonna hold no we're gonna do that community no we're not it almost seems like they're trying to manage the public relations effects of this act yeah that's the only way I can look at it today they had some changes coming up this weekend and they didn't want my story getting out they saw it they saw you post my letter and they thought we gotta wait we gotta wait we don't wanna spoil conference let's do the deed after that I say how dare you play with my life how dare you play with our lives and our families and our our relationship with God so you can not spoil your conference and truly John I would not be here I would not be vocal about this if I didn't have to be I don't want to be here as any opposition of any church or any member that the twelve or any of that I just want to live my life and I want to go to sleep at night knowing that there isn't a thirteen-year-old out there who struggles with same-gender attraction or transgender or any of that and wanders and contemplates suicide as their only hope we to think about that to think about there are men this last weekend the spike in suicide it's sickening it's sickening to me and I'm I'm shocked that more people just they sleep fine at night yeah who cares no they matter their lives matter one of them every single one of their lives mattered to their family to their friends to God they mattered hey God doesn't give us a trial just so we can come down and and commit suicide the one last thing my wife when I remember when I was talking to my wife what my foot my wife and I say pretty good friends and just last year we went almost like a spring break thing with the boys before date night were married her nor even dating and before she was even dating we're just you know good friends co-parenting and one night we were in the hotel room we were sleeping in separate beds and whatnot but she goes well you know it's like a cookie it's like what she goes if I want a cookie I can't just go to the kitchen and have a cookie every night I'd be fat another way of saying you're comparing being gay to eating a cookie it's not like I want a Mountain Dew or I'm addicted to Mountain Dew it's not like I you know have addiction to this that or whatever it's way beyond that it is a part of Who I am to the very depths of my soul God did not it God doesn't create mistake doesn't add mistakes there's no mistakes God's perfect he doesn't do that but we're mistakes right because you don't tell there's nothing that we can do or say or we can't change our our trajectory for happiness we're just supposed to sit here in this state of unhappiness and dwell and you know they say it's your cross to bear that's what they would say it's your cross to bear some people this is what they would say oh yeah some people have proclivities to alcoholism some people have diabetes some people you know how bad things happen to them in their lives some people never get married right it's just your cross to bear like all those other people that have things not work out so well to them I say how does why does this feel so normal why does this feel why does it correct every wrong that I've ever had in my life why can I get at walk out of this interview hold hands with my husband drive home feeling completely confident why does the spirit that talks to me tell me that I'm doing what's right that would be my question to them I've heard that but there's there's an alternative somebody who can't can't walk can't walk they can't choose to find somebody and then fix everything right that's heartbreaking and I'm sympathetic to that but this is beyond that I can choose to be with this man to love him he can choose to be with me and both of our lives and the lives of our children will be better because of it there's nothing bad dirty wrong or any it's none of that it's all good but God says then why did he make me this way you know so I just I'm grateful for that peace that I have well it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what anybody says or does or pushes or well well I had somebody said the other day what if they what if they the Disciplinary Council they say well you'll be a member if you just get divorced there's no way in heck I want to live a miserable life and not only that I want to watch someone that I love living a life when when you're just alone you're watching all your siblings have joys and happiness's and children and you're just supposed to go back to the 80 year old celibate man that walked in who's angry who's angry and empty and that's the way you're gonna meet god no I'm gonna meet God fulfilled strong and loved and proud and that I mean that for me to be able to say this it's something and when the church does something like excommunicate a faithful couple that is attending and wanting for that 13 year old kid it's basically saying there's no hope for years know your choices either to lie about it sleep around and lie about it get married and lie about it break hearts among the way Rick Fehr more or never I mean never know love right never know love just lust just getting weak one day and getting on Craigslist or whatever app and hooking up with somebody right and then feeling bad about it and then eventually committing suicide because of that or abandoning their faith right and II do but that's but that's it wishes oh yeah but that's precious so that's a problem too yeah and that's what they feel like they're between a rock several rocks and several hard places and for people who don't really aren't you know I have learned to appreciate pride and the flag you know all of that I've learned to appreciate that but being gay is such a small part of who I am I'm first a dad I'm first a son of God I'm first a somebody who can contribute to this world that I work hard and I do good for other people that's what I am that's what defines me being gay is just a part of that right and I understand why people go to that extreme because they feel like they have to they're pushed in this box their whole lives and then they suddenly come out and they just have to you know I understand it completely I just have never resonated with that it's not something that I because I don't want it to be a defining factor of Who I am yeah I'm a place now where I don't care we hold hands we we I mean we are who we are wherever we are and that's incredibly beautiful but when you look at that for me as a kid it was like well I'm not flame I'm not flaming I don't I'm not flying boy in and you know the gay people that I knew were just a little weird and that was my my you know eight year old brain and I didn't want to be that you don't have to be gay doesn't mean you are that and there are many many many many thousands of men who are just normal you would never be able to tell unless they said something and they're all all of them are beautiful of them are beautiful every color every shape every size male female female all gender non-binary all of it and and one allowed for me to truly was incredible it was incredible to see yeah I will remember that for the rest of my life so to close you're gonna have potentially disciplinary council in eight days potentially September 16th and I know Falls there's a tradition where sometimes people who care wanted to show up and show support do you have do you and/or Tate have feelings about wanting people to show up you having it probably even that time to process or think about that don't feel like you need to answer if you don't want to answer yet I know there are people that would show up on your behalf to show support in the parking lot of the church on that day you know I wouldn't I wouldn't be opposed to it I think the portion of me that existed that wanted to just do whatever they will made them more comfortable is gone because they haven't cared about me and what's more comfortable for me so it's interesting to think about what that would that make them more likely to X me what does this interview make them more likely s communicate it shouldn't it should be either you excommunicate or you don't I don't know I have to stop worrying about all that I have to just say for me personally the suicide rate the heart the heart brokenness and the the talk on Saturday it pushed me over the edge it's Oakes's talk yeah and that and then I contemplated it me is a grown adult as a father had some weird emotions about it and then you know I go on to Facebook and suddenly Sunday night Saturday night more suicides than they'd had in a while people everyone so i beyond caring what would make them more comfortable all right so let's let's contact media let's contact let's pull out all the stops let's contact the media mark September 16th probably the evening UNITA Falls for anyone who wants to travel we'll update you through the Mormon stories podcast Facebook page and through my personal wall on Facebook and maybe through the Mormon stories org page will help organize as a vigil and we'll get a few dozen if not more people there maybe even a hundred or two to show up and show support how's that and I wanted to make sure it's not just support for me for us it's for anyone out there who's silently struggling you know we we we were lucky to be in the place that we are the support is nice but there are people out there who need to see it that's what it's what's what I care about anything else you want to say before we end thanks for the time John good all right well this concludes our interview with dusty John's and we are so thankful for all of you who stuck with us on Facebook live a lot of great comments calling you out for your courage and integrity I encourage you to go back and read we probably had a couple hundred comments please share this listeners on your Facebook walls please share it on Instagram on social media on Twitter please email it to friends and family please share it in groups I want to see this interview shared a few hundred times if possible let's get people out let's let people know let's get the word out that this is happening because it doesn't make sense it feels wrong it feels like it's not christ-like and most importantly it's it's contributing to this epidemic of suicide we know that suicides in Utah are twice of youth youth suicides in Utah are twice the national average they've quadrupled since 2007 yeah they keep going up and they keep going up the the Deseret News did an article on this admitting this on Saturday and yet they never mention LGBT issues once in the article and instead mentioned altitude which for those who aren't aware has not quadrupled in Utah since 2007 we don't have an altitude quadrupling problem right and Denver has a higher altitude than us and they don't have the suicide problem it's not altitude and we can't say it's only LGBT stuff but it's clearly a factor so the church has policies that are literally causing people to kill themselves and we have to stop it so please don't be complacent please don't sit on your hands please don't sit in the luxury of your own privilege your straightness your comfort your belief please spread the word please share this please tell everyone call every journalist you know tell them how ageist this is and let's get a bunch of people showing up at your disciplinary council and let's see if we can stop the craziness yeah thank you for your courage thank you for your integrity thanks to Tate who's not on screen but he I know he's every bit by your side he's and and you guys are gonna help people then you're gonna bless people's lives bless you for your courage and your openness and your integrity and your love this is an act of love yeah I hope so I hope it's seen that way bless you thank you thanks everyone for joining us today I'm warmest stories check us out at Mormon stories org email us at Mormon stories at gmail.com we love you guys big thanks to Cody Layton for producing and making this possible last minute as he always does for the open stories Foundation board that makes all this possible especially for donors that that pay for everything that that's going on we'll do this for as long as you support us so support us if you can thanks everybody we'll see you guys again soon on Mormon stories podcast thanks dusty thank you you

Channel: Mormon Stories Podcast

Views: 8,502

Rating: 4.8701301 out of 5

Keywords: lds, mormon, faith, doubt, transitions, same-sex marriage, gay marriage, husband, UK, england, meningitis, latter-day saints, excommunication, disciplinary council, missionary, book of mormon, love

Id: 2AOA0PAH4iQ

Length: 71min 12sec (4272 seconds)

Published: Thu Oct 11 2018