Mormon Stories #991: Jared and Juli Egley - Alleged Abuser is Current Bishop Pt. 1

hello everyone and welcome to another edition of Mormon stories podcast I'm your host John Dolan it is October 2nd 2018 and we are very excited to be broadcasting live to you today for those of you on Facebook live from Salt Lake City Utah in the Mormon storage studios today we have a really sobering story and so I think I want to begin just with some trigger warnings today we were going to be talking about sexual abuse with a kind of an overriding theme of how the Mormon Church in 2018 continues to cover up and protect their abusers at the expense of the abused so that's the theme we plan to do a multi interview series on this topic just like we did kind of the losing the Lamanites series and the inappropriate bishop interview series so if any of you are interested in willing to come on Mormon stories on video and tell your stories about how you were the victim of abuse and the church covered it up and protected the abuser at your expense our intent is not to embarrass or shame the church or even less to embarrass or shame perpetrators it's to help fix a system that systematically is is again harming abuse victims by focusing on sort of its own legal concerns its own reputation concerns and its own leadership at the expense of the abused so thank you for joining us today we have in studio Jared and Julie eglee they live in Idaho is that right and the story is kind of harrowing because it involves Jared's uncle Jared will be telling the story about how he was abused as a six or seven year old by his uncle when the uncle was around 18 17 18 and and lately recently within how many years ago three years about three years ago his brother his uncle was called as a bishop to to Jared's knowledge having never confessed the the sexual abuse or received any punishment for it Jared and Julie kind of did a lot of due diligence to let the bishop the stake president and even a Mormon general authority know about the abuse so that this could be handled quietly and let's just say diplomatically and it appears as though this was completely bungled by by the church and so the only reason they're coming out now is because they they feel like the way the churches handled this is unacceptable and and so because the way they handle is so acceptable they want they want the church to handle these things more appropriately is that is that true correct so that's kind of the the teaser or the abstract of what story we were about to hear today it's somber stuff it's sobering stuff trigger warnings please practice self-care please know that we're gonna be talking about some heavy things even some graphic things and so if you need to turn it off or monitor who's in the room practice self-care take it in increments whatever it is you need to do to practice self-care please know ahead of time that we're gonna be talking about heavy stuff so without any further ado Jared and Julie eglee thank you so much for coming to our studios thanks for joining us on Mormon stories thanks for having us John we appreciate it yeah thank you alright so is there any disclaimer or intro you want to sort of add to supplement what I just said before we dive into your stories No okay so before we talk at all about the abuse let's just establish a little bit about your backgrounds as Mormons so that we can then just sort of know from what background and point of view you guys are telling the story now is that okay sure okay so Jared let's start with you let's we won't do a long treatment of your background but just give us kind of the bullet points of of your history and background of the church and what the church is meant to you prior to deciding that you wanted to speak openly about these issues for I was born and raised LDS fifth generation my ancestors came from Switzerland and we currently live on the farm that my great-great-grandfather homesteaded in the 1880s what was his last name eglee okay yeah oh wow yeah so same last name came from Switzerland every generation of the eglee family has been active LDS members where's that for him exactly it's in Southeast Idaho just north of Preston okay yeah so around Preston Franklin yeah okay at Preston is the closest city okay what high school is in that area Preston high okay you Napoleon Dynamite yes see did you know Jared Hess at all I did you knew him yeah in fact we were in young men's together oh wow yeah turns a friend of mine yep hello make sure I don't know we were in the Riverdale ward okay there okay yep so you know Jared and his brothers I haven't talked to him since I was in young men so I don't know him that well but we were in the same Ward at one point okay all right so that's so great great-grandfather great great-grandfather hey do you he was a polygamist who he was not okay so that's interesting um there is some family history there that we questioned whether he was or not but no none none of the eglee's were were polygamists is it you're aware there was some divorce and some marrying of some neighbors and stuff like that that doesn't make a lot of sense but yeah okay not polygamists to my knowledge so anything you want to say about your background before you talk about you'd like your ancestors or anything like that no I'm good with that okay there's farmers farmers from must Switzerland that came over at every generation that's not been a full-time farmer and what farming was a type of farming was it milk was a dairy it was a potatoes beef cattle and crops we right now we've run a large alfalfa farm okay yeah okay so your upbringing in the church just uh we were active members of the church I always remember going to church we you know that was what we did I don't know that we regularly had family home evening and scripture study but we were always active in the church as long as I can remember my family became a lot more active when I was in middle school and high school years and my dad was called in to a bishopric about the time I left on my mission and has been either in a bishopric or a bishop or a high councilor for the last 25 years so we have a very active family and I was always very active served a mission when I was 19 went to Montana all the way from Idaho came back went to BYU got married in the Salt Lake Temple and we've been active tight paying members until April this last April so how many years is that I would have been 40 well I was 40 you turned 42 in April so so how many of those 42 years were you would you have considered yourself an orthodox believing Mormon um I'm gonna say 39 or 40 so almost four decades as an orthodox correct believing active Mormon correct and how would you generally characterize your experiences in the church and relationships in the church good not talking about the abuse or the way it was here good I just I loved the church I mean every decision that I made was based upon principles that the church taught and I love the church I believed it and it brought meaning to my life brought answers to my life and I had no reason to not believe what I was taught I had questions like everybody else you know I had stuff for my mission about Akron anachronism Zin The Book of Mormon and historicity and stuff like that but none of that stuff ever caused me to question my faith or trust in the in the church I felt that stuff yeah how about church service did you serve in callings throughout those four decades yes after your mission yeah I've served an elders quorum president C's for a number of years I'm still currently the young in the young men's presidency in our ward whoa you can ask my bishop why I have not been or at least I've asked to be released but I'm still so you're currently currently if you have a calling you have a call I have a caller okay and the young men's secretary currently okay I've been in church since April but I'm still there okay yeah but for 40 years you were active and yeah we've served never said no to a calling okay yeah oh okay and how many I guess we'll talk to Julie in a second but Mary in the temple sure how many kids you have killed four kids it's okay all right anything else you want to say about your Mormon upbringing no just that we were we were absolutely active members of the church and it meant the world does okay Julie um I have some I do have polygamy in my background my great-great-great says John pack please just one second Jared are you feeling something right now I'm just sensing you might be feeling a little moan oh you all right yeah I'm good okay all right Julie yeah so yeah I have polygamy I'm sixth generation all four Graham oh my parents both sets six generations back and my parents both come I have John pack was an ancestor and he had I think five wives and he was on the his names on the monument he was with Brigham Young's party when they came to Salt Lake um so my parents were both raised very active their parents were built temple workers lots of family history I one day trace family history laying all the way back to Adam I haven't since family I remember we do that yeah there was yes so my parents were both very active members they both got married young my early years in the church my mom was the perfect Mormon mother she was the Bishop's daughter you know we did everything right we had family home evening my dad worked away from home Awad that stressed their marriage they ended that city was a sin again I grew up in Colville Utah okay little tiny town outside of Park City Morgan area okay um my dad ended up cheating on my mom my mom went to her bishop for council I was told she had a greater sin because she couldn't forgive my dad mm-hmm that kind of strained her relationship to the church so my parents ended up getting divorced we still went to church but we weren't forced to go to church my mom and dad tried to make it work for us the best they could we stayed in the same house and they would take turns cuz my dad worked away from home when he was home he would be with us when he was gone my mom had come back so I was kind of unsupervised as a teenager at times but I still was a good kid I didn't I went to girls camp graduated from seminary didn't go every Sunday but I still believed was still on the Mormon path wasn't perfect by any means graduated high school went to college there I met Jared so what's college I went to the good school in Provo you VSC at the time UVU I mean no one rings yes one of the people that can't get into BYU go no dents no digs are Mormons - no no no no yeah we were in Provo Happy Valley so we met do you want to know the story of how we met does that matter just we met dated for about a year and got married in the temple and he was I graduated from nursing school about six months after we got married and we moved to Vegas then we moved to Preston then we moved to Houston for Jared's career we lived in The Woodlands Texas for about six and a half years jared worked at cotton express we had three kids let the dream we were both in presidencies three certain callings yeah yeah I think I was a secretary of every organization Jared was an elders quorum because he had a truck and could help people move so were you faithful when he got married did you believe what was your vision of your marriage and your family church wives so my mom actually was disfellowship from the church and we chose to get married in the temple and she was not at our wedding which is a very hard thing for me now at the time I feel really bad because I felt like if she wanted to be there she would have been there but she had um she's amazing she had the integrity that she wouldn't lie just to be there she was just outside and felt like she was part of it and supportive completely um but yeah I basically chose the church over my family so I was all-in it's what you do it's where you go what about your dad was here he was there yeah he was there so yeah you choose the Mormon path then you be the Mormon mom and the Mormon wife and serve and love and I mean I was a missionary till you know I made non-member friends out in the mission field and you know tried to convert them and just lived the dream we had perfect life Jared got a job with Delta we moved back to what we felt was Zion I guess and I moved back to Idaho had another child so we have four kids now and we lived in Preston for about five years and then we moved up to the farm or Jared's dad farms and kind of helped do that that brought us up to ya current-day okay so as far as your faith goes you know prior to this sort of stuff where was your testimony where was your faith how did you feel about the church I knew it I knew it I believed it I I mean I was the I actually got called to be primary president the same time I served in primary in our ward and main Creek and since the time we moved up there and then I got called to be primary president about the same time Jared told me about the abuse and then that's where it got tricky but up to that point and we went to church every Sunday we weren't great at having family home evening we spent a lot of time together as a family but Jared's schedule is not your typical nine-to-five so when he was home we would do family events it wasn't always on Monday um but we taught the kids the gospel we believed we had family prayer we weren't the best at reading scriptures because I'm not a morning person but we we were all in and and Jared you're a pilot for do you want to say Who or do you not want to say who you're a commercial airline pilot commercial airline pilot let's leave it at that okay and you do international flights so you fly I mostly do domestic flights by choice but you have flown internationally big big jets correct all right okay and if you worked it all inside the home yes I actually and was a nurse a registered nurse and I worked in labor and delivery so and that's when we were in Texas I would work when he was home he would take there the kids while I worked and we worked our schedules around each other then when we moved back we had our fourth child I continued to work for about a year and a half and then it got to the point where it was easier for him to go to work and I just worked part-time so then I got to stay home alright well so so I guess to summarize it sounds like for four decades both of you or faithful Orthodox Mormons committed to the church and as I understand it from what background I've heard there's no motive to hurt the church or to attack the church this this all kind of blindsided you in terms of your faith is that right this whole exam is correct okay all right well it's if it's okay let's jump to the story how do you want to how do you want to start telling us kind of what what happened to you when you were keeping your child well I guess I could just start when the abuse occurred you know everybody's always asked what your earliest childhood memories are that's a common question that people ask in group settings and you know my entire life when that question would come up I remembered abuse that I experienced when I was a child and that abuse would occur in my grandparents home when we would go to visit my grandparents I had an uncle that was 12 years older than I was and he had some tractors that were toy tractors that of course a six-year-old would love to play with and I and I always like to go to Grandma and Grandpa's and play with those tractors and he kept those tractors in his room and I remember that I would go to his room and in order for me to play with those tractors I would have to perform oral sex on my uncle and I vividly remember that that's something that I've always remembered and you know it's it's what happened I don't know why I allowed it to happen but I remember that happening and then you know I would watch him masturbate into a garbage can and those are vivid memories like I can remember those as clearly as any of my childhood memories that I have I've always remembered them it happened on numerous occasions I can remember think three occasions where that happened that are separate I don't know if it happened more than that and I don't remember if it happened over a one-month period or a six-month period those are details that I don't remember and then when that abuse was over he would tell me that if I wanted to play with those tractors again that I wouldn't tell anybody and then if I did tell anybody that I would be in a lot of trouble because what I had done was wrong and I knew that what I had done was wrong I felt I remember the feelings of feeling that that was not something that was right so I did I as a child I feared that if I told anybody that I would be in trouble and that I wouldn't get a play with those tractors again which to a six-year-old that's like the most important thing you know so I didn't tell anybody the abuse did eventually stop like I said I don't know how long it occurred I don't know why it stopped he did go on a mission so it would have had to have stopped maybe because he went on his mission I don't know those details no adults were ever made aware of the abuse and he never did tell anybody or take care of that abuse so I don't he would be the only one that would know those details I don't know those details so the abuse stopped and I continued to live my life and let me ask you and I don't even know if you're able to remember or conceptualize this but can you talk at all about what what that type of abuse does to a child I do even can you even tease that out I I just remember those details of being very vivid I mean there are details like I have other childhood memories that you can kind of remember like I have a child that I throw a rock at a kid in kindergarten and I thought I was going to get kicked out of school so instead of going to see the principal I just walked home and the whole town was looking for me and I remember that but not very clearly but I remember the abuse vividly like it's something that I've never forgotten and this some would ask what was this something that was recovered memory that some therapist kind of led you to remember I've never talked to a therapist in my life ever and I've always remembered those things like I said whenever the conversation comes up in a group setting of what are your earliest childhood memories those are mine and obviously I didn't tell anybody that that was that was that those were my memories but I've always had them as long as I can remember and is there anything you can say to how that affects a child or a boy or even a youth a young male to sort of have experienced that and then to to grow up with those memories having never told anybody is it sure is it harmful is it oh it was very harmful because it's something that you heard at least for me I was so afraid I remember being afraid as a child that somebody would find out and I would be in trouble so I wasn't gonna tell any there was no way I was gonna tell anybody I do remember having a conversation with it must have we've talked about this with my parents because I remember having a conversation in a car I know that most children never could never had never tell adults that they are abused it usually if they do find out it's by accident that a child says something I do remember a memory in a car asking somebody if when I got big if if somebody did the things that I did to my uncle if I could have the same things happen and my parents don't remember that so I don't know if that's a valid memory or not but I didn't you know I never told anybody because I was afraid that I would be in trouble and then as you get older you know I remember as I got older early teenage years I didn't want my friends to know what I what I had experienced and I honestly in my mind had questioned whether or not I was gay because I had done things that were considered homosexual acts did that make me you know I wasn't attracted to men but I had those questions and it was a concern to me as a early as an early adolescent youth and you know I like other people and I will we'll talk about that I had masturbated as a young teenage kid and I thought the reason why I did those things was because of the abuse and I thought that you know listening church leaders that those you know only people that are broken do those things and only people you know those are sins and those are bad and I thought that the reason why I have that flaw and my character is because I was abused and maybe that's the way I was because of that abuse but I don't want anybody to find out because I didn't want to be embarrassed by those things so bishops interviews to me as an early teenager were more miserable because I thought that they were you know these men that could see through your soul and could use discernment and know everything about you and I wasn't gonna admit to them that I had masturbated because I was certain they would find out that I had been abused and I didn't want them so I dreaded bishops interviews and they were miserable and I went in there and lied my way through them as an early teenager because I at all cost did not want them to know of the abuse that I experienced so I I did everything I could to avoid bishops interviews I despised them I was asked by bishops if I masturbated and I just lied and said no they didn't I never had them dig any deeper than that but I never admitted that I had done those things for them to dig deeper into those interviews but they were I remember them being miserable interviews one of the things that I think comes into my life as I've always been uncomfortable around priesthood leaders maybe because of that so you know that's how I kind of live my life as I as I grew older I realized that I didn't do anything wrong I wouldn't be in trouble but I didn't want to confess or let anybody know because I was embarrassed about what had happened so I you know so it sounds like some of the harm is you basically from a very young age you're feeling like you did something wrong feeling like you have to keep something secret my feeling like if someone found out you could get in trouble and then you're carrying that year after year after year right and then as you start to mature into a you know into adolescence the guilt and the shame and then the association of that with other things that are basically normal it just has you carrying a burden and a sense of guilt and shame for right a decade or decades correct feeling like you can't talk to anybody and then teaching you to lie because you're scared about what happens if you're honest right then you're sort of like nurtured or corralled into becoming a liar or someone who lies not a liar someone who lies then you've got that extra burden I always felt that way I felt like a liar bishops interviews because I was and that makes you feel just worse about yourself but it was it was better for me to be a liar than to let them know at that point in my life what did what had happened yeah so I guess if we're summarizing some of the effects on a child in the youth it's just carrying a lot of guilt and shame and sadness and secrecy that you shouldn't have to carry growing up is hard enough right and then having it affect how you think of yourself in your own sexual development causing a lot of confusion and noise when it's hard enough just go through puberty without after I carry that baggage and as a victim of that I I don't I'm not gonna say that only victims understand why victims don't come forward immediately but I know why I didn't you know I have valid reasons for not bringing that up what were they summarized we're not in trouble getting trouble and guilt shame I don't you know if my friends is a teenager found out what I had done would they make fun of no yeah absolutely they stigmatize you correct right yeah so that's that's heavy stuff to have to carry yeah did it did it did you just internalize it or did it come out in unhealthy ways I internal I internalized it very well okay fact when I was when I was 15 years old I broke my back on a motorcycle and that was a pivotal point in my life where things changed for me because I you know I was given a very small chance to walk again as a 15 year old kid and I matured very very quickly and I was told by numerous people around me that that was a miracle that had happened and that the priesthood had healed me and because I did I walked out of a hospital two months after I was told I probably wouldn't walk out of a hospital I was good and I got a patriotical blessing shortly after that said my life had been preserved for a purpose and at that point in my life I changed to be somebody that was more i IW and I owed him something and so I doubled down on being good at that point in my life and I was a good kid from that point on you know I didn't do things that were not you know I didn't sin much as a kid after that and I became yeah right exactly you know but I became more faithful and double down on being good and that that is how I internalized that was I'm gonna beat this by being being better and so I did that as a teenager I decided you know I finished high school and I turned in my mission papers to go on a mission I think on a Tuesday or a Wednesday and that weekend I broke my back a second time on a snowmobile so by time I was nineteen years old I have broken my back twice I have two sets of metal rods in my back and at that point you know I was being told there's a reason for this but I was mad because I thought I've done everything in the last four years to be good and this and now I can't go on a mission like I was gonna go and now I can't go and so the next few months of that portion of my life was very difficult I didn't know I did question whether or not that happened because I had not confessed of some of the things that I'd done prior to age 15 because I didn't want to and that was always in the back of my mind but I still never did confess those things and the doctor that was my doctor at that point in time she was not a member of the church she said she would not sign the medical release for me to go on a mission for three years because she knew that I would be sleeping on a dirt floor or walking through a jungle and with my back injuries she said that that's something that couldn't be done so I decided I was gonna give up on that and go to school my mom and my dad were upset about that they had a state conference where I believe it was elder Fowler who was in the first quorum of the seventy at the time came to that state conference they drugged me up to talk to him after the state conference and he asked what was going on and I told him I said I was gonna go on a mission I broke my back I can't get the medical release signed I'm just gonna give up and go to college and I still remember the feelings of the you know the spiritual feeling that Mormons talked about he told me he says you don't go to school the Lord will make it possible for you to go on a mission and within a week my medical papers were signed to go on a mission now we had a bishop or a lo he wasn't the bishop at the time he was in our ward he was a doctor he took the papers and signed them and I'm almost certain now as I look back that the the asterisk at the bottom was this kid can only go somewhere where there's good medical care he has to be somewhere where he has a normal house and he can't have a bike and I was sent to Montana the first area that I went into had was in Great Falls it was in the city and the companion that I got was really excited because he had been a walking biking area and we had a car so we had cars and cars stateside I had to go to the doctor in Montana every month and get x-rays and send them and it worked out great and I served a great mission and had a wonderful wonderful mission that's just looking out for you and right let me serve but serving in a way that my medically right which looking back that was I'm glad they did that because it worked well for me of course they frame it is divine intervention really it's just being respectful of medical condition you know work great so yeah but on my mission I had an experience about six months into my mission and the experience that I had about six months into my mission was that I had not you know when you get asked that question is there anything that you have not taken care of with priesthood leaders that you should take care of I had not taken care of some of those things that I had done early on because I didn't want the abused to come out and I confess those to my mission president about six months in and I told him I didn't confess the abuse but I confess that I had had problems as an early teenager with masturbation I had never brought that up with anybody and he was a great mission president he ended up being an empty sea mission president while I was at BYU when I came home he's instrumental in me getting into BYU to begin with so I wasn't smart enough but he but he did get me in he looked at me he says did this happen like right before he came on your mission I said no this was when I was before I was age 50 and he's like ah well not a problem don't worry about that just go out and go to work so I did but I left not confessing masturbation correctly that I hadn't confessed to anybody else prior so I walked out of that zone conference knowing that I had confessed everything and was was good and why didn't you feel safe by the time you're 19 or 20 or whatever to talk about the abuse I don't know I just I don't I can't answer that question I don't know why I just didn't want to talk about it you knew about the abuse oh yeah you you would it would have been in fact memory crush on her mind and didn't feel safe talking about it no and that that experience that I had when I confess those things I left that meeting with a understanding of the atonement that my uncle had been forgiven like I forgave him for the abuse that he subjected me to and all of the burdens that had been on my shoulders growing up with that abuse I felt those disappear and it was no longer an issue for me like I didn't need to internalize it I didn't think about it the the heaviness and the burdens of that were gone and I always believed that that was me feeling the power of the atonement you know those burdens being lifted and disappearing and I from that point on in my life I finished my mission I came home I was comfortable being at weddings or family reunions with my uncle I held no grudge it was not an issue even though I had those memories it was not an issue and I had no intentions ever of ever bringing that up because it wasn't not a problem for me truly anything you want to throw in here kind of as he's kind of shared the narrative relating to you know your marriage to him your your memories any anything you want to throw and just kind of up to the timeline ya know and I I never would have imagined that Jared had suffered any kind of abuse he I mean he and Lyn weren't or he and his uncle we're not close but they could be at a family event you would never have sent tension you would never have sensed anything was a problem they'd he didn't seek him out but it wasn't yeah it wasn't an issue sometimes victims of sexual abuse it affects their sexual relations or sexuality in marriage did was that aside is there anything you want to share about we talk to Natasha about that and it's not affected us at all though that we know maybe we're not normal I don't know that's a that's a shout-out to Natasha home for parking a human who introduced this eglise to me to me she's interviewed them on Mormon mental health podcasts alright okay and check out more mental health podcast Natasha's a real pioneer in the sorting yeah thank you for anything yeah okay so so and so things were there's a good marriage healthy marriage so good you didn't know there's a problem no okay yeah and you're thriving your career you became a commercial airline yeah that's a top-notch job yeah you know I'm very successful in my career endeavors and you know we had great kids and and life just you know moved on very very quickly until so someone would say like leave it then right like you're healthy you're happy you're in a good marriage you're having a healthy sex life you know your sexual identity by this point you've forgiven your uncle it's all you know he's moved on you sort of done so like I mean obviously that's that's one thing that comes to mind so how in the how the world could this come back up and why what happened well and that's what I you know I had no intentions of ever bringing this up and my uncle around I don't remember the exact years but he he was called I believe first to be on a High Council and it didn't bother me that bad but I scratched my head a little and thought hmm you know I'm pretty sure he's never confessed or taking care of what he did because had he done so I probably would have heard something from somebody but I don't know I would hope but I didn't know so I just you know in the back of my mind I had questions about that but it didn't bother me that bad he got sick and actually got bladder cancer and struggled he's a cancer survivor and he overcame that and then was called into a bishopric and I don't know the exact timeline of this he may have been in a bishopric before he was sick and then they released him when he got sick but when he got better from cancer three years ago in the summer of 2015 he was called to be a bishop and I remember being at my parents house and they were all excited and says oh your uncle Lynn's been called to be a bishop all of my I have my grandfather had four sons all four had now been called to be bishops at one point in time in their life and that was a very proud moment in our Mormon family was all of the all of the sons of grandpa have now been bishops and that day to me was something in my mind clicked and said no this that how does that work like that can't work for me like you know i-i-i was not comfortable with that and so i started to question stuff initially I was really quickly I don't like someone might even a faithful Orthodox Mormon might immediately say the atonement like rat why didn't in your mind you just go oh I've forgiven him I'm sure the Lord's forgiven him the Lord and his wisdom there's discernment with the calling of leaders clearly the Lord has forgiven him it's taken care of and his callings inspired what kept you from just sort of like drawing that conclusion moving on I don't know because I tried to draw that conclusion I tried to draw the conclusion but in my mind the conclusion was the way I understand the atonement to work is unless you confess and forsake and make your wrongs right arrest restitution residents would have involved at least an apology right so he's been living his life when somebody asks him the question is there anything that you've done in your life you've not taken care of with the priesthood leaders I knew that clearly there was something that he had done that he had not taken care of with priesthood leaders yeah and that bothered me I thought how can revelation work to call this man into that position when clearly he's probably not worthy to be called into that position and that's the road that I that I went down and so I actually started to get on the internet get copies of handbooks on the internet to see what the handbook said about how the church deals with abuse because I want to know maybe it's open you know maybe he maybe he did go and confess it and maybe he did take care of it you know and as I start to study those things I realized that had he confessed it is most likely would not be called as a bishop but he's called as a bishop so in my mind I had to reconcile is he called by revelation did God call him to this position or did not God not call him into this position and you know I came to the conclusion in my mind that most likely he didn't call him into this position that was my thoughts and this is just something that all I'll just jump in and say we are raised to believe that callings are inspired of God as Mormons but over the past several years I've had many many people come to me and tell me that you know their uncle or their brother or their dad or their husband was in an affair when they were called into the bishopric or in be bishop or in a state presence or even a state president former sexual abusers current and former abusers current and former adulterers current and former people engaging in business fraud and it you know I don't mean it like attack Mormon doctrine or people's sacred beliefs but this idea that every person who receives a calling that it's inspired of God and is worthy is a is a real it's it's one it's it's clearly not true and two it's very damaging because it it what it does is it enables people to be to be put in positions of trust and then in those positions of trust and power it enables people like a Joseph Bishop to do something like sexually abused a missionary in the MTC as a mission president and so we have to we have to find a way to get rid of this belief that all callings are inspired or it or it allows very dangerous people to have even more power and access to abused others I'm sorry for that detour but that's exactly what I would say and in my mind from a victim's perspective you know I felt like I was you know God's gonna reward him and call him to be a bishop and he's gonna get this position which is a you know a position that some people in the church you know covet and as a victim how does that make a victim feel like God God doesn't care about things that happened to you as a victim he's gonna reward this perpetrator and so I struggled with that for probably a year trying to figure out what what's going on here like what how does this work as does discernment real I knew from early on as a kid and bishops interviews that some of these guys don't have discernment because they clearly didn't discern that I was lying to them through a bishops interview and maybe there's no discernment in the way bishops are called so I spent some time trying to figure out how this works and then in that process I ran across a podcast that you had done with the sex crime investigator from Arizona I believe I had never heard of Mormon stories podcast but when I was googling how does the LDS Church deal with sex abuse that came up and I listened to that and I'm like because I thought that this was a very isolated you know in my naive Mormon mind was this is a very rare isolated this has got to be one of the only this can't this can't be a big problem this is this is just a an isolated incident that's the episode with Matt long by the way for those who want to yeah it's very very good up so there was another one that you did earlier with the woman Barbara Barbara Peterson maybe somebody there was two of them that I found that I'd listen to and those interviews you know opened up my eyes to this is this is this happens more than just with me and of course that led me to start to question well this if this isn't what they say it is maybe nothing else is either and I very quickly went down the the road that most people that are experiencing faith transitions go through I knew a lot of those issues before very very mildly but as I started to research what else may not be right you know I very quickly went down that road of questioning my faith in questioning whether the church was what it claimed to be and my life was a mess now what year was this this would have been two thousand fifty thousand 15 - summer of 2016 so two three years ago you're going through a full-blown faith crisis yeah by myself you know I'm at work you know googling and listening to podcasts and trying to read stuff and ordering books and she doesn't know that I'm doing any of this what made you scared to tell her honestly I don't know because I knew that she would probably I I wasn't the type that thought that she would leave me why not I don't know I just trusted that she would would not but I didn't want to tell anybody like my dad was our Bishop for a part of that time and I just I didn't I didn't want anybody to know that I didn't believe but I didn't believe and that was an issue and I I got that I didn't want to be around anybody like I would bid to work on Sunday so I didn't have to go to church and I would avoid family stuff I you know if I could be alone I didn't want to be around anybody my wife my kids my family included I just it was miserable and she knew something was going on she didn't know what and at that same time I had had had a site business and north Dakotah and i had a court case I had to go up to Bismarck had to drive to Bismarck to a court hearing for this business that I had been running and it was a 12 hour drive up one our appearance in court drive back and I just told her I got to drive up I'm gonna drive up I'm gonna go to drive back I'm gonna make a quick trip out of it she's like I'm going with you and I'm like no you're not hmm I'm driving by myself I need 24 hours you know of a long time I don't want and I told her she couldn't come and we got in probably almost one of the first fights we've ever been in in our marriage and she dug her heels in and said I'm going and I said I'm leaving without Jenn I woke up early I was gonna leave without her and she was ready I got it you got my stuff so Julie tell us your what your what's happening is an observer as he's going through this what was it like for you so we moved up to the family farm and I remember sitting in early Society lesson and it was on trials and I remember thinking in my head you know everyone's like everyone has trials they're all different and I'm like I don't this is crazy and this is prideful whatever but I had no trials we were happy we had a great marriage we have four amazing kids were financially successful where where where we had planned to be I'm like maybe so I convinced myself that's my trial is to not have trials and not be prideful so we start building a house we get this side business I start on some trials I guess but I'd notice that Jarrod starts with drying I think it's the stress of this business he's farming more he between his airline job and his farming job and a summer fun jobs I mean he would work 18 hours a day so you know six days a week because he always took Sunday off and his stress loads through the roof I assume he's you know over the top with this business the house the farm I'm trying to make it as get it back to the way it used to be when we had no trials and you used that stuff as an excuse when it would come up is you know I used I'm just busy I don't I'm days off and I used that an excuse to cover what I was really going through overworking is a form of self-medication yeah and I definitely definitely did that yeah so he did that voidance and avoidance of dealing with issues yeah he was withdrawing from you know he would usually always engage more with the kids and with me and he just kind of wanted to be by himself and so he's got this car ride coming up and I know something's something's up and I was I was going and like he said we like it's crazy but we never fought I guess he just put up with my crazy ways in would let me get away with stuff but we never fought and that's the closest to we I'm going no you're not and what were you thinking and feeling I didn't know I just felt like something is going on and I don't know what and I mean I you know I really just thought he was stressed with the business stress but the house stressed with the farm but why go why did you want to go well because I didn't want him to go by himself I just I just was gonna force myself to spend time with me what were you worried I I don't know that I was worried about anything but I just felt like if I could get him alone and cornered maybe I could alleviate some of the stress maybe because he used to talk to me all the time you know we'd talk about things and he hadn't been talking to me and I I'm withdrawing I'm the talky touchy feely one and he's the I need my bubble one and so I just knew I'm going because something is going on okay good for you I like that image of you just I'm going I did that was mad I had my stuff packed I got up I think I got up at like 5:00 and got ready just in case and he wakes up and I'm in the car literally yeah literally and I was mad so you're mad I was mad what cuz I didn't want to go I wanted to spend you know twelve hours in a car with nobody there to you know just I just want to be alone and so we drove until we were past Bozeman so we drove for four hours and honestly that it was not a word said like not not a word said and I remember being on the road between Bozeman and Billings thinking something something's got to change like I can't I can't do this any longer and so I told her I says I've got something to tell you and she's like I don't know what she was thinking she's like okay you can tell I remember her saying you can tell me anything whatever it is I I will stay with you and I in my mind thought that she might be thinking that I was having an affair with somebody or was cheating on her was gonna want a divorce what do you think I don't remember thinking those things I just knew something was not right yeah what made you say you can tell me anything I will leave you maybe that's my father I would choose Jared over the church no matter what that I would so that was your biggest fear that I mean no I don't think it was I don't I didn't even really think that church had anything to do with it I just knew that Jared was the most important thing in my life and no matter what or who or even an affair I knew that I would try and work through it because he was most important and I knew that she had no idea I mean I knew that she if I were to ask for a list of dozen things of what she thought was going on that she would never guess in a million years what they were well then he actually said to me how good of a counselor are you and I was like what do you mean I took some psychology classes like where is this going mm-hmm but I I told her it was the hardest it was the hardest thing that I've ever done in my entire life was to tell my wife that I had been abused as a child and then she would she was the first one that I'd ever told and then I didn't know what to do and that I didn't believe in the church anymore and you know I just unloaded the whole mess on her for the next hour and a half or whatever in the car and I didn't know you know I didn't know what to do and that's that's why I had to tell her I'm like I don't I can't keep doing this but I don't know what to do and so she right off the bat says well we've got to tell somebody you know somebody needs to know that this happened and I said no I can't that was I believe in September of 2016 I think some somewhere around there and I wasn't comfortable telling you no I I didn't want to talk to my parents about it and want to talk to any priesthood leaders about it I says we need to just take our time and figure this out because this is something that we need to make sure is handled so that everybody can everybody's lifes can be as easy as possible because it's a mess I knew it was a mess I knew it was gonna be a huge mess and I knew eventually we would have to tell somebody but I wasn't ready then and so we at that point it was great because I I said look you've got to listen to these podcasts about how the church is dealing with sex sex abuse I Center those and then I'm like you've got to listen to these podcasts about this and about that and and so we we were very quickly I don't know if she was honestly at that point had pretty much determined in my life that I didn't believe that the church was what it claimed to be but I figured that was still a good place to be so we kind of went through that faith transition over the next year kind of together trying to sort things out she was called to be the primary president I think right before we left on that trip and I was sitting there with the the bishopric member was came to call her to be the primary president and I'm sitting there in the in the back of my mind screaming no don't say yes but I knew she was gonna say yes so she said yes and I'm like great now I don't believe in my wife's the primary president and but we went through the next year kind of going down that faith crisis Road but knew that the bigger issue was what do we do about my uncle who's a bishop who shouldn't be a bishop you know and I knew we had to tell somebody about it and I drug my feet as long as I could because I I didn't want to tell anybody about it because it was difficult and I knew that it was going to make our lives probably more difficult to bring that up so we we decided to tell our Bishop in December of 2017 let me let me pause before you okay I'm gonna just read a few comments from our listeners we have a very large audience joining us a couple hundred plus people joining us lives who want to thank you guys for joining us I'll just read a couple comments and then I'm gonna ask the audience one thing before we continue this is amazing thank you so much for sharing somebody just posted this is a real tearjerker and it is so Ivana writes I just realized that it's not just the LDS Church admin covering up abuse its people in the church like my parents who never reported abuse from neighbors why to not make waves so she's basically basically saying one of the things that enables silence is just this fear of making waves not wanting to hurt people not wanting to hurt the church no I heard the church's reputation not wanting to cause problems Thank You Ivana Jake writes it can be so nerve-racking to share these things in private let alone live on Facebook in front of hundreds of people I'm grateful for the courage you both are showing right now and on behalf of my family we support you 100% so that's a little support from Jake thanks Jake Curtis writes that is exactly what happened to me in reference to the abuse so you're not alone already people are coming out saying something similar is happen to them thanks Curtis for being vulnerable Viktoria rights i understand you i was also abused as a child and these memories never change we keep these secrets for so long but eventually when we do speak out as an adult it helps release a lot of the damaging issue that we carry with us so she's saying it was a it was very much a release for her to get this out and don't keep it tracked down and we'll talk about whether that was your experience as well but thanks Victoria Lisa writes you have to wonder how it is that these men are able to move forward in life when the victims hold on to the things that happen to them through life so when we think about you know your uncle how did he just move on how did he what did what did he do intellectually psychologically emotionally to just pretend that this never happened or did he handle in other ways we don't know we would love to interview him if he ends up watching this in a with your permission you know that's an option that we have if there are other abusers that want to come on Mormon stories and talk about how they do abuse from the point of an abuser that would be a very sacred experience but we would welcome abusers to come on and tell their side of the story if they're willing probably if you will want to take us up on that Lisa writes you know sorry Daniel writes the vulnerability here is amazing and heartbreaking and beautiful thank you for sharing your story with us so thanks Daniel Daniel is a great supporter I just want to ask listeners a favor right now we have a couple hundred people who are tuning in live we are about to talk about the main thrust of this interview which isn't to embarrass your uncle it isn't out him or shame him although that's an inevitable product but the purpose of this interview is to highlight how the church handles victims of abuse bureaucratically administratively and so i want to ask every listener who's willing right now to please go to this this video stream and share it on your walls if you're comfortable and just say I'm listening right now to an interview of a victim of sexual abuse whose perpetrator ended up as bishop and the focus will be how the church handles abuse and even if you are skeptical the point is that someone is reporting abuse someone else is a bishop and it's an important thing to discuss how people who allege abuse are treated and how alleged perpetrators are handled and it's going to involve a general authority it involves a current bishop it involves people's lives and this is during right smack dab in the middle of the the Cavanaugh hearings with the US Supreme Court and the me2 movement after Harvey Weinstein and you know the United States and even the world is having this reckoning of what how do we handle victims of abuse reporters even years or decades after the abuse happened how do we handle it and it's not just Brett Kavanaugh it's not just dr. Ford it's not just the US Supreme Court it's Mormonism it's Catholicism it's Scientology it's Jove's witness it's schools it's whatever and we all have to get comfortable talking about these issues and and handling them in a better way so I invite all of you listeners who are willing and who are vulnerable and who are in a position of privilege willing to be vulnerable and her in a position of privilege to please right now or if you're listening after this has been live if you're willing to share this interview on your walls and say help team with us to learn about and talk about how to handle abuse we can reach a lot more people that way because breaking the code of silence is part of how we we improve and get better so please share this right now on your walls if you're willing let's see the live active listeners increase to three or four hundred if we can share it afterwards as well and let's and let's see if we can make a positive difference in help the Mormon Church and all of us in all of our organizational stewardship s-- learned to discuss openly these issues and to handle them better is that alright that's great you

Channel: Mormon Stories Podcast

Views: 11,539

Keywords: lds, mormon, faith, doubt, transitions, sexual, abuse, child, children, seventy, bishop, general authorities, laing

Id: RmloaOTp5Rk

Length: 62min 2sec (3722 seconds)

Published: Fri Oct 05 2018