Mormon Evangelism | Arguing with Mormon Missionaries

[Music] how much yes types that talk about God being the only one the first and last and the reason why that's important reasons as you can see why I'm pushing it this way is because scripture says is there a Savior besides me I know not one so if you don't have the true God of the Bible you don't have a savior that can take away your sins that's my concern for you guys so I mean that would just be one issue that I would point to if we were sitting around a dinner table together talking about our lives talking about you know where we work or what not and I wanted to get to the bottom of just exactly what you guys actually believe these are the kinds of things that I want to talk about with you guys so I know fundamentally you guys believe you're gonna become God's one day shown from God's Word oh how God says that that's not even a possibility and and again I don't mean it disrespectfully but there's no answer for them and the other concern okay maybe you guys are familiar with this text have you guys ever read the Corinthians letter to the Corinthians Paul so Paul says in 2nd Corinthians chapter 11 he's scared for the church at Corinth okay he's warning people he's saying I'm afraid for you because you're so easily being taken away from pure and simple devotion to the true Christ there are other false christs that have come and then these false teachers that are bringing this in and you won't you won't even keep him out of your church you're letting them in the door so Paul talks about other Christ and I know correct me if I'm wrong on this okay because I really want to misrepresent you guys you guys believe fundamentally that Jesus and Lucifer groaners is that correct [Music] right yeah yeah I know that's what you guys believe so so so at bottom Jesus and Lucifer brothers as are we all in the in the pre-existence essentially correct so so the problem with that is God what he says about Jesus in Scripture right he says just one thing to aim at one text okay Colossians chapter 1 verse 16 so for by him Jesus talking about Jesus we're all things created in heaven and on earth visible and invisible whether Thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities all things are made by him and for him he is before all things and in him all things consist they hold together right so the Bible says about Jesus he's the creator of all things he's the eternal God he's Yahweh he takes the divine name of God in the Old Testament remember when Moses sees the burning bush in Exodus chapter 3 and God says I am that I am Yahweh he's revealing himself as the Covenant God of Israel in scripture in the New Testament Jesus takes that title and he applies it to himself he says Johnny 58 he's talking to the Pharisees before Abraham was a co Amy which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible it's about this event to set the scepter jumping the Septuagint he takes the divine title of Yahweh and he applies it to himself before Abraham was as far back as you want to go I am so my concern for you guys is the Jesus of Mormonism of this church teaches he's he's Lucifer's brother he's a created being the god of them and Jesus of the Scriptures is the creator or he's on can't quote to you my favorite scripture whatsapp's from the Book of Mormon I'm said look away hero man Gila my size this Christ the Son of God the foundation when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds shafts in the whirlwind never Noah's hell is a mighty storm shall beat upon you shall no power over you to drag you down to the Gulf of misery and endless joy the rock on which your build just a sure foundation somewhere on at the men build they cannot I know the fact that Christ that scripture speaking of is the son of God the savior of the world so maybe your and your taught in your missionary training that usually the way this is Jeff just rough estimate I heard what you said you're taught missionary training that you are to overcome I finished what I was saying I'm sorry I thought you finished the verse sorry yeah we thought you'd finished the verse no you had a nice strong pot yeah you know I know that that he's our Savior and I know that he came down and he he suffer first since we can return and live back with him and it's due to the plan of salvation which was there since the pre-existence that we can return backing them with them again see today and it's through that and through our Savior his atonement for us and we are redeemed you know from from a fallen state and I know that to be true and if we build on that foundation who is Christ Christ Kim yeah that's what Zack was saying who is he Disney Lucifer his brother God he's a he's our brother is he the eternal God Heavenly Father sent us down as families why that Jew can answer that question is directly do you believe that Jesus existed from all eternity I know that our Heavenly Father he he had a lot of sons and daughters God what he answered just that question did Jesus exist cuz you said he's the foundation he's the who is he so let's ask who he is who is he we I fully agree so is the Jesus of Joseph Smith's revelation the Jesus of scripture who is has always existed from all eternity he's been dismissed all these different what can you just add yeah I want to hear what you'd say just just yeah okay you are okay good okay all these nocturnal not like really I don't do that the doctor'll differences like like whether Jesus existed for all eternity or whether 13,000 feet brother we believe that Jesus Christ in general the Old Testament and that has always existed in some but he hasn't been God for all eternity right no no that's yeah that's God but you don't believe that the father has even been God for all eternity this eternity yes it did so in Joseph Todd and King Follett discourse putting that yeah he taught that we've imagined his pose that God was gone from all eternity I'll refute that idea and take away the veils of the MACC you've got to learn to become God's ourselves that's what Joseph's revelation was so the Yahweh use of Jesus is Yahweh the Yahweh of Scripture it says in Psalm 90 verse 2 from eternity into eternity you are God Joseph disagreed with that and you would agree with me that Joseph came after the time of God's revelation in Scripture so we have ultimately a foundation of the Word of God that was there before Joseph got there and the Joseph comes with a revelation that contradicts the revelation of God about himself we believe in everything that the Bible says as long as it's laid correct okay so Psalm 90 verse 2 from eternity into eternity do you have a better Hebrew translation than that you know I don't know Hebrew that well so okay so I will give you another one in John chapter one verse one it says in the beginning was the word Jesus I see that out of the actual shirt do you have about my bag oh sure I'll show you John chapter one oh they're on there they're on their mission pray this is what they're supposed to be doing what are they gonna do there watch the show yeah this is really nice I like we love Craig I've known Craig for 20 years John chapter 1 okay John chapter 1 chapter 1 are you familiar with that if you read that passage before I have but I have some memory problems for a second oh man I can't remember things that well just uh yeah just chapter one say one one through verse three okay and what were you saying about it so here in the tax it says in the beginning was the word and you don't have to believe me on this but I just say but the Greek says in arcane Holocaust means as far back as you want to go to the beginning with no stopping point forever ago the word was there yeah it says and the Word was with God that's pressed on Theon and the Greek he was an intimate relationship with the father and the Word was God so he was always there with the father and he is God says watch this this is where it gets interesting in terms of what we were talking about it says the same was in the beginning with God all things were made by him and without him was not anything made that was made Lucifer was made we were made the heavens were made it says that Jesus created everything including Lucifer that's a different Christ where does it say that that Jesus Christ created just read it it said by him were all things made and without him was nothing not anything made that was made all things think I'm going to be even though I might not be able to answer you know all these questions I know the more that's true well I know that I miss what I was getting at it I know that I'm missionary training I have the missionary training manuals you're taught if you can't answer somebody's question to bear your testimony and so I actually wasn't taught that and I just I know the form is true right it's in a minute it's in the manual and I wanted to encourage you to push beyond that if you get a biblical text that shows you a different God a different Christ a different gospel your testimony in my testimony doesn't equate truth so like for example there you mentioned something second ago and I'm gonna I'm gonna address it with respect and humility you said these doctrinal differences don't matter but I'll give you one that does matter to all of us ready about Jesus there are people who live right here who believe they say they believe in Jesus I just ran into one the other day he had a shirt that said of course I love Jesus I'm Muslim so he says Jesus Christ he says he believes in Jesus loves Jesus but they believe that Jesus Christ was not the Divine Son of God and they don't believe you died in the cross for sins and they don't believe you rose again they don't believe you need him for your atonement is that true I don't really know but but is that what I just said Amen I know we're in agreement this this is not something of a dispute between all of us we above all of us would say we believe it Jesus home and is necessary and that he was a Divine Son of God that he died and rose again hey men we're look at those Mormons and Christians saying yes right well no no no no quarrel here among us but if a Muslim was standing here right now and they said no Jesus didn't die no we didn't rise from the dead and no you don't need as his home and would you say that doctrinal difference matters they're using the name Jesus just like you that's a different Jesus isn't it just a different belief in weight you saying that I don't need to believe Jesus died for my sins no you do okay so what matters believe in the different thing then yeah a different Christ is that your Christ it's exactly a different prize okay he's not the Divine Son of God but they I don't think they've they say he did not he say he didn't die he didn't rise from the dead just like he I don't know wall you can go check it this is not made up that's what they believe he did not die we don't believe that we believe in the same Jesus Christ who came to die for us is he Lucifer's brother right that's a different Christ that's not the biblical Christ [Music] that's a category error we're not talking about Jesus physical attributes we're talking about whether Jesus Christ is the eternal God or whether he created Satan or whether he is Lucifer's brother and only a created being well we believe that Jesus is Jehovah and I don't really think it makes a whole lot of difference whether or not he's Lucifer's brother I'll give you one Jesus is a space alien that's the belief of the belief of the hale-bopp they believed in Heaven's Gate the Heaven's Gate cult Jesus was a a space alien yeah oh yeah I know when were you born 95 95 was 96 97 rising like that so they believed in Hale Bopp believed like in this alien theology and everything else so if I tells you right now you're all three wrong Jesus is the space alien and what you need to do is you need to recognize that that we need to basically catch a ride on the next comment that comes by by killing ourselves and putting $5.25 in our pockets for the space toll that I would agree to disagree okay how about this I guess we can all agree but actually get hit okay I can have sex before marriage I believe that nope no where would you where would you know where would you go to show me that's wrong I would go in my trusty pimp your pamphlet is a foundation of truth or where would you go with it okay from from what what do you mean if I was to if I was a young Mormon and I said to you we're friends and I said to you hey my girlfriend and I are sleeping together before marriage and we've prayed about it we feel good about it how would you how would you address me as a brother who loves me how would you address me if I said we're sleeping together we prayed about it we feel like gods in this with us you gotta work out for yourself I mean what you would would you give them any face crap sure I would say to breathe I'm not sure find out read the read the what read the book of Mormon so what if I challenge the Book of Mormon and I say why the Book of Mormon why should I believe the Bible okay let's translate correctly great so flee sexual immorality is translated correctly from the Greek that's what it says so what I would do as a pastor is I would talk to the person that says they can have sex before marriage and I would say God says from his own mouth flee sexual immorality not my opinion not my feeling the Word of God Jesus says John 17:17 thy Word is truth he says his word is truth not my feeling not my emotions not my experience but his word and the Word of God is what Jesus applied to people the Apostles applied to people and that's what I think that you three would apply to a Mormon friend that said to you I'm sleeping with my girlfriend before marriage and God's good with it we prayed about it I think you'd quote scripture to him I would just say it's against God there you go in a public property though so well we love you we care about you you're on a mission preaching a false gospel you're gonna answer to God for dollars we care about you guys it's a pleasure to meet you have to poach for Mitch nice to meet you hi nice to meet you guys and I agree I think I think the concern the problem that is there is that the question is what Jesus because Jehovah Witnesses for example if you guys ever seen them they run that new they do what you guys do you know they're very faithful and they go knocking on doors or claiming their message they believe that use crisis Michael the Archangel Jehovah's first creation now is that is that who Christ is is Christ an angel Joe his first creation the son of God but I'm well like no you're good man Christ's right well yeah we'll see them so primarily the reason you're asking like why we're out here yes well primarily is that all my best friends growing up of high school and Mormon had a lot of great relationships we have great relationships now in fact Craig ray he's only us we known for twenty years we're good friend I love Craig yeah usually a lot of them all right I love Craig a lot yeah tomorrow yeah that's right good yeah and primarily it's really love and concern for the LDS people that like proverbs 14:12 he says there's the way which seems right unto a man but the ways that end therein are the ways of doubt so sincerity someone can be some serious sincerely wrong and Christ said this is eternal life from there the only wise and true God and so in contrast to what God revealed in Scripture the Mormon doctrine of God the gospel and most importantly welcome to a person to Jesus Christ and God's revelation his standards for who a prophet is it's it's with god's revelation and so like for example isaiah 43:10 the god physics note that's before me you have to know god's after and you could be some series in Johnson and John where John's epistle says anyone who goes too far but does not abide in the doctrine of Christ has not gone so there is a dividing line where you push the line and go too far what does that make does that make sense where I'm saying is I understand are necessary yeah and so for eternal life like you have to well no you guys we got look at your rats into okay are you guys here for the rest of the week yeah ish maybe okay well if you take this I know you're on your mission but I would I would I would love to trade right let's take this and read through it come back and just give us even one answer just say this would be how I would respond to you Jeff that's that we're here because we care about you we're not here to hurt you or beat you over the head we're only here motivated by love for you of course we're gonna say hard things like for example Craig and I we have a relationship for 20 years I love this man we're going to dinner tomorrow night but he knows and I know there's times where things would come out of our mouths that will offend each other but I'm not gonna let it hurt my feelings guy know he loves me and I love him all right so you know thank you thank you thank you so and just take a look at that go through some of those verses just come back and just say Jeff this is what I would say to you okay and and I'm Jeff this is Jerry so okay JJ all right like Johnson join god bless you guys you

Channel: Apologia Studios

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Keywords: Apologia Studios, Apologia Church, Jeff Durbin, Mormon Missonaries, apologia mormon, mormons at my door, mormon documentary, black preacher owns mormons, mormon tabernacle choir, mormon music, jeff durbin mormon debate, James white mormon, Jeff and sye arguing, sye ten bruggencate, jospeh smith mormon, south park joseph smith, apologia evangelism, apologia studios mormon debate, intense debate with a mormon, 3 mormons

Id: daRozH_0wWU

Length: 20min 9sec (1209 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 21 2018