Mom runs over son, tosses body in river; Paramedic stages girlfriend’s murder as suicide - TCDPOD

a word of warning this podcast explores graphic and disturbing stories and includes some strong language it therefore may not be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who may find it disturbing hello and welcome to true crime daily the podcast covering high profile and under the radar cases from across the country every week we are recording this on march 3rd 2021 i am your host anna garcia and we have two very exciting guests today it's the gals from true crime and cocktails lauren ash and christy oxborough hi ladies hi how are you hi good i'm so glad you're here but you know part of your thing is that you two dress alike i'm so disappointed you didn't dress matchy-matchy today you know that is a misstep on our part we're just trying to be our best professional selves i think this is like business christy and lauren and so you know what we what i'm hearing is we need to invest in matching business suits oh we could we could pull those off i just felt like i was trying my best to be like a full grown up yeah which is very difficult for me i was like no i'm gonna i'm gonna come in professionally so i didn't even think to ask lauren what she was wearing missed it oh my god i do have to ask you this one question about when you do wear the matching outfits so like do you each buy it from the same retailer or does one of you buy it and then send it to the other how do you do that well it all kind of started uh when we would visit each other so christy lives in canada and i live in los angeles and so you know would i show up and she'd have new matching pajamas for the two of us sometimes yes and so uh that's just kind of you know snowballed and then when we started doing the podcast anytime we got kind of like a new merch a new t-shirt design we would just have them sent to each other's houses type thing and there you go boom we keep the tradition alive there's a lot of pictures of us as little kids because we're very close in age so we got dressed alike as little kids so we're really just embracing our honest roots oh so cute and you two are related we are yeah you almost hesitated like you didn't want to admit that well this is the thing we're cousins by blood but we're sisters by life so i would refer to her as my sister but technically for the fact checkers uh we are legally cousins yes because we have attorneys monitoring this which we're very grateful for very grateful and respectful of oh my god this is so funny and now lauren you're also on nbc's superstore which is isn't that shot here in in burbank it is yeah universal studios yeah because when i drive on barham boulevard there's this facade that you can see and i'm like at first i thought oh is that a new store but it's not it's yours i know and it's so funny because it's it's flat like you can't go people think that we've built a whole store there but it is just a facade it's just the front and then the actual interior of the store is on sound stages that are on the other side of the lot but it is quite uh it's quite a spectacle it looks very impressive and very realistic yeah okay so we're going to get into our cases but just so for folks who don't know you you you do this podcast you tackle crime cases you drink um are either of you do you have backgrounds in crime are you criminals i don no no either of that i will promise uh to the lawyers listening we are not criminals in any way no i'm just uh i'm just a stay-at-home mom who it turns out really really loves to research and lauren is just like triple threat over there can do everything actress hilarious funny gorgeous all of this incredibly smart um and we just both really like unsolved mysteries and that kind of spiraled into other true crime cases yeah it's really our our show is really kind of a product of it's a it's a nice silver lining of quarantine because you know i don't think we would have necessarily even thought to do something together had we not been in this cool you know zoom world that we're in now and we discovered that we both had this like obsession uh with the new unsolved mysteries on netflix and christy was like you know maybe i'll just do a little light research she's reading books she's teaching herself how to read forensics reports autopsy reports like she is so good at it she's being very humble it has been such a cool experience not only kind of stumbling into doing this thing together but also uh really seeing christy like learn that she has this like affinity and skill um for for research it's been it's been like a really fun uh really cool thing to discover ourselves in the middle of and yeah we drink while we do it so it's a fun hangout too wow i'm really excited christy i want to be uh i know you're going to wow us with some background on some of these stories so let's just get right to it before everyone on youtube starts with their complaints oh my god get right to it you know do you get that on your show where there's someone who posts the exact time when the cases begin and the chit chat ends yeah right oh yeah yeah yeah and but to that i say like well you've determined that there's a way for you to solve this for yourself which is just fast forwarding and and we never need to know well for that person we are beginning now set your timers so our two cases this week the 2016 death of a nurse was originally believed to be a suicide however her paramedic boyfriend has just been convicted of her murder and i have to tell you some of the toughest cases that i've investigated are what we call these questionable is it a suicide or is it murder those are the absolute hardest cases to prove this one will prove that it was not that difficult but generally they are but first a mother has reportedly confessed to running over her son with her car and then tossing his body into a river the level of violence that is alleged in this case is revolting and overwhelming it is a very disturbing case it's got the country talking because how could a mother do this allegedly and it's on fire on social media so let me give you a little bit and then you can jump in here 29 year old brittany ghazny is accused of killing her six-year-old son james hutchinson and when you see his picture that we're gonna put up he is the cutest little boy you've ever seen in your life he's got reddish hair and freckles on his nose and the cutest smile and and the most stylish glasses oh my god he's the cutest ever every child is adorable i love every child but he is my god you could just see a spirit so this took place in middletown ohio a town that is pretty small it's 50 000 people a little less than 50 000 and it's just north of cincinnati according to fox 19's reporting and court records brittany drove to a wildlife area last friday february 26th and she tried to leave her son in the park she apparently planned to just abandon him he got out of the car she closes the car allegedly this is according to all the police reports and then she tries to drive away and the little boy apparently tries to hold on to the car because he's scared because his mother is driving away and in doing so she allegedly confesses to the police that she ran him over and that probably is what killed him but police have not found the little boy his body's not been found she allegedly confessed that she took the boy ultimately and and dumped him in the ohio river but when i think of the last few minutes of his life if this story is accurate the way that the prosecutor says it happened can you imagine the terror that fear christy i mean there are just no words um i mean i'm a mother of three boys and my youngest is about the same age as james and so this one was a really tough one to even look at um his just sweet little face showing up on camera everybody's saying like from his school like that he was just so full of joy and such a lovely child so it's just it makes it that much more shocking to have this happen yeah and what's incredible is that apparently this is what police believed happened but it kind of all unraveled when the mother and her boyfriend went to the police station to write up the missing persons report and the chief of police said their story wasn't making sense meaning each of their versions wasn't matching but nonetheless the police said that they took this very seriously they had a little boy who was missing and so they they put out the alerts they put his photo up a description of what he was wearing it was on twitter it was on social media so clearly the police took this very seriously because this little boy was indeed missing now what's i also you know may get a little confusing here for everyone because the little boy is named james and then her boyfriend britney's boyfriend is also named james so we'll try to keep that straight for all of you who are listening now police say that britney described to them ultimately how she went back a half hour after allegedly running him over went back to the park found him in the parking lot dead looked like he had a head injury she allegedly told police that she scooped him up put him in the car drove him home put him in bed and then the next morning she says to her boyfriend okay now we need to do something and the two of them drive to the river dump his body there allegedly the other kids oh that's the other thing they're other children when this happened police say that her two other children were in the car so their speculation was her plan if she had a plan to get rid of all the children at once get rid of one see how that works out and then go to for the other i don't know what what do you think lauren you know it's interesting because i read it it's interesting that the child that ultimately very unfortunately has been killed did share a name with the boyfriend and i know that i've been reading speculation about her saying that her boyfriend was perhaps pressuring her into getting rid of the children that he perhaps didn't want to be a stepfather to these children it just feels very dark to me and very twisted that they share a name and that was the first one to go um i did also read and i i don't know if this is true but i did also read that she actually has another child who was already in foster care at that time which again i i wasn't able to find any other information about that or why that child was also in in foster care but it the the picture that's being painted already is feeling very bleak and i i mean it seems like there was i also read one story that said all three of them got out of the car but then another story said it was just him that got out of the car it's just feeling like there's no obviously there's there's no good intentions there and it's it's very sad to me not only like you say what the last moments of this child's life were but also these other poor children who now have experienced this and i'm sure you know to what degree of what exactly happened and what exactly the truth was it has to be just the biggest trauma and that's truly just so sad considering child protective services obviously is aware of this family if if another child has been removed um you know and put into foster care i mean i again i'm speculating but i do feel like that suggests that perhaps there has been things that have happened in the past also um that maybe this wasn't the best home so it would not surprise me if she was you know in the mindset of wanting to perhaps get rid of all three it's just so so bizarre the name connection to me feels like a real there's something to that to me um that's that doesn't feel like a coincidence you know yeah so the boyfriend is 42 year old james hamilton so just to make sure we we've got his name clear out there uh this apparently took place over three days so apparently it was last friday that the mom allegedly took the children to the park and left little james there then apparently the following day saturday is when she and her boyfriend james allegedly take the little james and toss his body into the ohio river and then sunday morning early in the morning is when they go to the police now when they go to the police they tell them that james has been missing since the night before so that's when their clock starts ticking in their story they said to the police he was last seen wearing a shirt and a little pajama bottom with batman on it which makes me wonder is that what he was wearing when he died is that was this his favorite outfit i i don't oh it's so sad so so sad now while police are investigating and getting the word out is when they start putting the pressure on britney and her boyfriend james and apparently according to police that's when britney breaks down and tells them and allegedly confesses this confession i believe is going to be potentially problematic and even though i'm not an attorney this is why i think so because when she's finally taken to court to set bond she tells the judge that she has a learning disability and she doesn't understand what's going on so and then you're going to hear the police chief respond to that and say look she knew the difference between right and wrong she knew exactly what was going on she knew what her rights were of course that's what the police are going to say and believe me i am not defending this mother if this is what she did but she stands accused right now but she stands accused because of her own admission and we don't have james's body to tell us exactly how he how he died what were the causes we don't know any of that so you put into play this other dynamic and it it really concerns me it's it's an interesting twist i feel like at this point um for her to kind of come out with that admission it it was feeling to me you know we were we you know many of us who are interested in this topic remember the making a murderer documentary on netflix and of course the the coerced confession um that that happened that we saw in that case and i'm not suggesting that police were coercing her but it felt to me in that moment i agree with you when i saw that i was like that's such an interesting turn for this to take um because you know what is the legality how did that conversation go how did it go from her and the boyfriend coming in to report this child missing within hours confessing you know what i mean like that that does feel to me like either you know either she is being honest and there that that is that is something that that she does live with or she could be very cunning and she could be realizing that perhaps claiming to have a disability claiming to have been coerced or something could help in her favor i don't know do you think she was telling the truth christy i mean it's really tough to say i just i mean it does seem like really um it just seems too perfect that it's like well i don't understand what's going on and also oh it was his fault so none of this is mine but it just feels uh i mean like the police said learning disability or not you still know harming a person is not correct and you know that you're supposed to love a child you're not supposed to do anything i just still i can't my brain can't wrap around somebody being okay with harming a child in any way the other two kids were only uh seven and nine so that's gonna live with them for the rest of their lives so i can't even imagine what they're going through what they saw so i have a really hard time feeling sorry for her in any way but it it could be a true thing about her but it also just to me doesn't make up for what she's done oh absolutely it does having a learning disability does not prevent you from being a truly loving and kind human being absolutely that those emotions are still possible so i let's let everybody judge for themselves at least from this little part that we can hear from court on monday brittany was in court and based on what we appear here she seems confused unclear about what's happening in the process this clip is from fox 19 tv you like court appointed counsel ma'am i don't understand want to talk to a lawyer what is officers she seemed to be communicating fine she understands right from wrong she understood her constitutional rights what i think will be interesting is when she allegedly confessed did she have an attorney present because if she did not and she finally does get an attorney the first thing that he or she is going to do is to have that confession tossed out yeah and and that to me again i i mean listen again who's to say but it feels odd to me that they went in that morning and they got a confession from her within hours i mean if she does have a a learning disability or or what have you perhaps she didn't realize that she should maybe be lawyering up you know that's not something that necessarily enters people's minds in general in those situations so i agree with you i do think that that is going to be potentially problematic down the road if because it feels to me like the timing wise it just feels unlikely that she would have been able to get a lawyer present that quickly and the other thing that the police chief said from his perspective at no point in the process did he feel that she was showing any form of remorse chilling you know i have to say that this this case really had me reminded of that the susan smith case from 1994 that was the first thing that came back to me um again she she strapped her two young children into their car seats and and pushed their car into into a lake um and and and that whole how that all kind of fell out and i was reading up about her a little bit last night and kind of there was speculation at that time um that she had a secret boyfriend who maybe didn't want children and it was never it was never kind of clear to me how true or false that was but it was an interesting connection because this this reminded me immediately of that case and then to kind of see that there was that similar through line because again i have i have read that there was from brittany some speculation that that her boyfriend had pressured her into doing this it's it's it's such an interesting connection um and it's it's such a tragic kind of uh parallel but the difference being in that case is that susan smith created a story about a carjacking and the children being taken that she stuck to for a certain amount of time i think and i and i think that you're you're kind of honing in on this as well and i think what's interesting to me is that brittany didn't create a story that lasted very long first of all the story between her and her boyfriend couldn't be kept straight to begin with and then she was again confessing within hours it's questionable about whether or not there was a lawyer present it just feels again i i'm with you that my my spidey sense is telling me that that this is going to be this is going to be a tough one um down the road so to prosecute i feel like and it's also interesting to note who is charged with what because britney's been charged with murder abuse of a corp and tampering with evidence james the boyfriend has been charged with abuse of a corpse and tampering with evidence not murder so my guess is when things get a little tough boyfriend james if he has any information is going to cooperate and if he did not kill that child he wants no part of it and i think that's what's going to happen i i just do why is why is james going to stick up for her if he's not even charged with the murder again both of them just charged presumed innocent until they have their day in court the case is indeed obviously very disturbing and this tiny community is having a lot of trouble dealing with it and processing this information i mean if the rest of the country is struggling with it can you imagine if this is your home so they've been holding some candlelight vigils and on the day that britney was in court they had a candlelight vigil that night so that would have been last monday james's father louis hutchinson was in attendance and he told cincinnati.com quote she killed my son i don't even know how to process this i want them both to rot that's what i want from his perspective i can't even imagine what he's going through i can't i can't even imagine right i just also don't understand like if you're in a case where you know you meet a boyfriend he's very i'm interested in you but i just do not want any of your children why is your first thought i'm just going to like abandon them in a parking lot in a wildlife area as opposed to where i mean james clearly had a father in his life why couldn't she have just dropped him off on james on lewis's doorstep and been like well guess what he's yours now and then walked away and left him alone right right pain it's still like not the nicest motherly thing to do but it's the kinder thing to do than just abandon him in the middle of nowhere well not only was james's father there but britney's sister heather gosney told the cincinnat told cincinnati.com that james obviously was a very sweet little boy and would light up a room whenever he walked in she said that the last time she saw james alive was on a video call about a month ago after that call the sister says britney blocked her and the rest of the family so they lost touch and the sister believes that this new boyfriend james was behind that trying to isolate her from the rest of the family heather also says they're having a very hard time in the family understanding the possibility here that her sister is charged with murder and she's charged with the murder of her nephew so they can't wrap their heads around that one that is a hard one to accept especially if the details of the crime are as reported they're extraordinary i mean that it's not like it was like a moment where the mother snapped right now this appears to be calculated putting loading the car up with the children driving them to an area putting the child outside the car while you i'm sure it could be argued that there wasn't an intent to murder him at that point there was certainly an intent to get rid of the child at that point um yeah so to your point i i agree with you this was definitely thought out this was something that was not in the heat of the moment again which is still not excusing that but it wasn't um there was time to cool down there was time to think about it there was the entire car ride you know what what was going through her mind at that point and i think it's a really interesting detail that her sister is is saying that this boyfriend was potentially isolating her and whatnot which which can speak to this potential abusive relationship that obviously that is a telltale sign of at least early stages of emotional abuse uh mental abuse trying to cut off a partner from their support system family friends and whatnot but again it just makes me think forward um like you've been saying and it makes me think forward to what is this court case going to look like because they can paint that how much of a puppeteer are they going to try and make james um hamilton in this situation what's the truth you know at the end of the day he wasn't in the car right he at the end of the day she was in the car it's it's a you know it's a very sad thing and it's very sad that at no point um it seems as though she changed her mind afterwards the fact that she went back to the body is a very interesting point for this for me as well that there was some there was some concern and whether the concern was that she would get caught or the concern was about the child you know obviously that's debatable um but it's just interesting to me that she went back and then took him home and put him to bed that that said that would suggest to me that there were some feelings um that maybe she was like what have i done but then i'm also perhaps giving her too much credit again maybe she panicked we can't leave the body out in the middle of nowhere it'll be found um it's just it's it's still also unthinkable that it hasn't been retrieved the body has not been found and had they not confessed no one at this point would have even known right unless remember there were two children in the car who are potential witnesses here so my guess is they know a lot they know a lot yeah they'd have also you would think though at that age they'd be terrified they just witnessed what happened to their little brother i can't even imagine what those kids are feeling so i could see them easily being like you know what we're not going to say a thing we just want just don't hurt us hurt us in any way but i mean thankfully they have been removed from the home so that's i guess the only bright light here if there is one there's not i don't so christy do you think that britney's britney had maybe some possible remorse and went back to get the child or do you think it was more of like you know maybe her friend james said you know you better go get the kid because you can't just leave him dead out there they're gonna find him and come after us you know my instinct whether i'm right or not i just feel like is it possible like i mean from what i've heard she put the kids in the parking lot went to drive away james grabbed onto the car hand like a door handle and she kind of dragged him for a while before he went under the car um we assume that's what happened but of course we don't know for sure but i think that there's a part of her that was like her her mother instinct kicked in and she was instantly like okay is he okay what happened and then she went back to check on it and then finding him dead i think maybe briefly she became like a mother in that moment of like seeing her child injured because her plan wasn't to injure him in the first place her plan was just to leave them there and walk away and just suddenly she's not a mom anymore which is ridiculous because she had many other options she could have had i know in these situations a lot of parents just feel like they have no other option there's nothing else they can do whereas in this case we know that james had a father that he could have gone to instead of being left somewhere so it just feels like maybe in that brief moment she turned around just to see and then when he was found dead it was well i guess we can't leave him here yeah but at the same time if you're gonna spin the story of he went missing and suddenly he shows up in a rest area like miles away from home doesn't that just help your story so it's weird that she would then take the body home so it's like it almost feels like maybe there's a little remorse there but she has shown nothing since then and we don't know what the chances are of trying to recover james's body because this portion of the ohio river moves fast and it's a treacherous area so it's possible we certainly hope so for the sake of just the the dignity of giving james a proper funeral in addition to the forensics of what could have been the cause of death and if there were any prior injuries which could be determined if there was prior child abuse if he was ever harmed or there was other violence in the house we don't know why the so this would be the fourth child we don't know why the fourth child was originally removed from the home we we don't know the details of that i i am very perplexed by this i really am i am i find the confession to be potentially legally problematic i think her claims of having learning disability are going to further complicate things and if police do not recover a body so we know what the cause of death is and and for sure that he's dead again it's going to be another complication in this case but i believe the boyfriend is the key to all this the boyfriend and the other kids that that is my guess in the meantime the judge has set bond for brittany it is one million dollars for her alleged accomplice james hamilton the boyfriend we've seen multiple reports from numerous news agencies setting the bond as high as 800 000 and as low as 100 000 and there are multiple sources cincinnati.com usa today so because we can't narrow that number down we're going to tell you that that's what's being reported now nonetheless he would have to come up with the money to get out the preliminary hearing in this case which is moving really quickly to get to a preliminary hearing is scheduled for next week march 8th i think it's going to be fascinating to see what additional evidence the prosecutor presents yeah i think that we're this is just the beginning of a case that has the potential to be one of the ones that really rocks um certainly the country you know obviously always the death of a child i feel like those those murder cases are horrific um but i just feel like there's going to be twists and turns in this for a lot of the reasons we've already outlined and i'm also very curious to see again how much of a villain and and mastermind they are going to try and make that boyfriend appear to be and how much he may or may not have actually been i think that that's going to be a huge huge thing to come absolutely i want to know how much they're going to try and pit each other against each other in all of this where she's going to stand by like oh he's the one that made me do it and he's going to come back with i wasn't there at the time she made me help her move his body right so i'm interested to see which one of them is going to come out on that one yeah my prediction is that he's going to flip against her and save himself yeah for sure now on to our second story where a florida man has been convicted in the 2016 fatal shooting of his then girlfriend this is after police say he tried to stage her death as a suicide 48 year old thomas elmore jr who is a former paramedic attempted to cover up the murder of his living girlfriend 48 year old tamara naish making it look like she had actually killed herself inside the riverview home now thomas told deputies that the former nurse that's tamra had committed suicide he said that she was despondent because she had recently lost her job they were having money issues and that's what happened you know and he he but there there's some stuff here that makes absolutely no sense now he has been convicted of the murder this is what just happened so let's go back to september 22nd of 2016 when tamara is found dead in her home because sometimes i love to do it in this chronology because it makes you sit there thinking like if i were sitting here in the bathroom listening to this story with the guy i'd be like really okay here come the really points her boyfriend thomas said that he found her dead when he came home and he was so upset ladies so upset that he waited 24 hours before calling police and he's a paramedic the tampa bay times reported that thomas called the police finally at the urging of his attorney so he'd called an attorney at this point but he hadn't called the police very distraught very destructive who has better medical advice than an attorney you know when you are a paramedic and are trained to save lives and you're around potential you know death illness injury all of those things i understand it could be different if it's a someone who's close to you but yeah that did not hold any water for me whatsoever and what do paramedics do oh they race to the scene yes that they get called that is their purpose in life is to help people and respond to situations like this okay so clearly if i'm police i'm already incredibly suspicious with just this little bit of the story he told investigators at the time that the day before that she was found dead the two had been arguing over money because tamara recently lost her job as a nurse and that this argument according to the tampa bay times took place at 1am after after i guess thomas got home from hooters because that's where i go when i'm upset yeah i mean they do have a good deal on wings so if if you're not you're strapped for cash i guess that's the place you go but it's just i mean i did read that they have they did have uh money issues because he had already dealt with a mortgage foreclosure just a few months before this all happened so i mean yeah there was obviously money troubles but like isn't that always where cases like this start where something happens and it's like oh well we were having money troubles and i put this on her for being causing the stress in this relationship and right i i don't know i doesn't make sense to me yeah i mean it's it's it's interesting um it's interest the hooters detail is very interesting i i think that that and that's this isn't a judgment about people who go to hooters but in the car yes it is no no it is not that was a joke everyone please it was a freaking joke it was a joke um but in the context of this run out you know in the context of someone who lied and staged this murder to look like a suicide it is an interesting detail that it does seem that there was huge tension between the two of them it does seem like that is true it does seem christie's bringing up this mortgage foreclosure it does seem like stress is high it says to me he's blowing off steam if he's going to hooters if you're going to hooters or you're going to a strip club to me that suggests you're blowing off steam or you're you're doing something for you um coming home to a fight okay i could see perhaps the hooters of it all could have been a part of the fight um potentially again some women would be fine with that some women wouldn't be so it just it just again it adds uh to me it just adds another color in in this kind of when we're painting this picture that detail the color of course being the orange shorts but um of the hooters waitresses but but you know the tank tops don't the tank tops match of course no i do but you know that's youtube it is it is um but you know what i mean like it to me that detail is just very it's a very interesting kind of of moment in this in this chronology like you're saying is is that hooters he had been going to hooters it feels like his stress level was was potentially high i don't know it to me that detail just stood out as being very interesting um in his what his mental state was at this time and so it continues so he comes home they get into this argument and then he tells police that tamara kicked his dog he grabbed the dog and then he went to his parents house he was really mad and then when he came back finally is when he found her dead and then apparently there's another 24 hours that we're waiting before he calls for help [Music] now thomas says that he found his girlfriend already dead on the bathroom floor and thomas said this is what i find interesting because how would i ever know that someone clearly killed themselves like i would if i found someone dead my girlfriend my significant other and their gunshots i mean i oh okay it's possible because she was holding the gun i might but it wouldn't be my place to tell the police that she killed herself like i would be asking the police for help to help me i i that's for me just i know that's really minor in this whole thing i know christy's dying to get to the details of the body and and so go go for it explain why his story didn't add up um i mean well there is the fact that her um there were two bullet wounds in her body one being in her head or face i don't know specifically which one and one being in her hand and they're suggesting that maybe she had held her hand up to you know protect herself instinctively and she was shot that way and that is not how one commits suicide i don't believe i mean it just it would mean that she would have to shoot herself through her hand to get here and what about which hand the gun was found in that's right her gun the gun was found in her left hand but she's actually right-handed which is also a detail you think he would know being you know her significant other and he might have noticed that but i still find it fascinating to think that he's he wants us to believe that he sees a woman that he's been with they were together what like three four years and that he sees her dead bloody on the floor and his reaction is oh this is upsetting i'm gonna go lie down and then a day from now i'll call the police but my attorney first yes i would be running in that room i would be screaming i would have blood all over me because i would be like doing things you're not i would be holding my partner being like are you okay what's going on breathe check for that but it seems like he just walked in and went whoo that's a mess i will deal with tomorrow and then called the next day yeah it it the story i agree with and i think anna to you may have been kind of hinting this too i feel like it's it was odd that that was the story that he went with go with the story of an intruder you know like like there was a masked man or or something you know in trying to cover up this his own involvement because yeah like the the the bullet hole through the hand to me is like it's such a giveaway the gun being in the wrong hand this is this is requiring that's just not how people kill themselves and and you would think again having experience as an emt these just feel like big details you know that that for him to miss for him to to kind of concoct this story he also had a full 24 hours to think about it and to me it's interesting that that that was kind of the best that he came up with again to me the story is i came home like you're saying i came home i found her dead i don't know what happened what happened she's dead she's been shot oh my god someone must have broken in you know like that to me feels like not that i'm suggesting this is how to cover up a murder but it feels like there are options that were better than the story that he kind of wove and that ultimately of course that was his undoing which again is is just it's so sad it's so sad too you know that that what what her what her last moments must have been as well and then and then being left there for a full 24 hours is just so it's so dark it's so uh it's so sad it's so sad for that poor woman who was a nurse who had devoted her life into you know helping others into into dealing with with the sick and the the injured and all of that it's it's really it's really a tragedy that that that's was her unfortunate demise well they believed that she was likely there more like 36 hours so uh the time frame probably goes back somewhat to that whole time where he claims he left the house went to hooters and all of that and apparently the body appeared to have been somewhat handled or manipulated so it's possible in this 24-hour period mind you he's already been convicted by a jury hasn't been sentenced yet that he could have been cleaning up after himself cleaning up the scene and setting her up and thinking okay maybe a suicide is going to look more like a possibility of of what happened here i do find it interesting that the family said her family when they were contacted by the authorities to tell them that she had passed they said they were never told by the authorities that there was any possible investigation into a suicide all they said was this is an investigation but they never used the words suicide so my guess is from the very moment they walked in there the cops were very very suspicious um at least you know you've got some justice now because he's been convicted and he did not get away with this staging the um this is according now to the hillsborough state attorney general andrew warren he said the medical examiner ruled it was physically impossible for her to have shot herself based on the available evidence and the jury agreed that there was just no way that she could have done this with her non-dominant hand i don't know what happened but i think what most likely happened is they got into an argument it became heated he shot her that she's probably defending herself as she sees the gun being raised my guess is that's what happened and it probably was over money and it probably was a stressful situation yeah and he also probably wanted it to look like a suicide because he has previous um domestic violence in his past from i believe both were against his first ex-wife but he also has a second ex-wife according to all of his court records that i've looked through which were legal to look through because it's open for the public um but yeah if he's already been charged with different domestic violence cases he knows that a cop is going to come in look at this scene and be like oh well we know you've done this so he tries to make it look like it wasn't him but did a really bad job in doing so the tampa bay times were reported that thomas was arrested twice in 1998 on domestic violence charges which also included a violation of a restraining order and then in 2012 he was arrested on a charge of driving while under the influence the jury deliberated for eight hours and found him guilty of second-degree murder thomas has yet to be sentenced but that will be happening soon you know i was wondering too if he'd been if he'd been out at hooters for the night potentially if if the timeline is shifting like you're saying if it was actually 36 hours like where does that line up was he drunk at the time did he come home had he been out drinking he's drunk he's gotten angry he's gotten the gun out to threaten her you know in the moment again if he's got a history of domestic violence especially i feel like intimidation and bullying all those kinds of things are not uncommon um and then in the heat of the moment you know goes for it i feel like that's probably sometimes the simplest explanation is true and that that feels like it absolutely could have been the way that things had gone and again if he has also has a history of a dui then that also suggests to me i it wouldn't shock me if he had been you know drinking or drinking and driving and those kinds of things in this situation as well it's it's again it's it's so sad and you know i i mean obviously domestic violence as well it is is such a huge prevalent thing in in everywhere in the world but certainly in this country as well and it just goes to show too that you know three or four years into a relationship you think that you probably know somebody and even if you feel like you're in this you know for for some people i'm sure this toxic relationship or an arguing or what-have-you relationship um you know did she ever think that it would escalate to this i mean probably not you know who knows how much she knew about his past did she know about those past charges did she know about what happened with his ex-wives or did he spin a different story for her that she believed you know i think what i'm getting at is is you know i would encourage anyone to run background checks on potential mates that's what i'm saying because honestly honestly though all jokes aside we live in a society where we a lot of people are partnering up now with people that you meet on the internet or on apps which no no judgment or shade i've done my fair share of of dating sites and apps in my time um but i i feel like again it's like you just really don't know and i think that it is you know people joke about you know well don't be crazy don't stalk them don't you know whatever and i i would say running a background check here or there not not always the worst idea yeah yeah but you know what when someone is in a relationship like that it's very hard to get them out i 100 i've got two very well educated girlfriends who fell for total scammers total scammers and no matter what i would say no matter what i would dig up no matter what logic i tried to apply there was no way that i could reach them and ultimately until they found their way out of that relationship could they finally step back and say oh my god what a dummy i feel so taken advantage of yeah 100 and it can happen to anyone and i think that that's that's a really important thing too is that you know anyone can find themselves in one of those situations one of those relationships and you're right and when you get in it it becomes extremely difficult to get out of it's it's not that simple um at all and i hope that by talking about these stories it just you know raises raises the awareness again and makes people realize that you know being having a discerning eye and and you know being suspicious of people is not always the worst i think that sometimes that is vilified in people certainly now and i think you know it's it's there's a lot of people out there who want to take advantage of people and there's a lot of people out there also who are who don't have great intentions and i think protecting you as number one is is always the most important thing and keeping these stories going again spreading the word getting it out there so that other people can hear them and go oh man this person that i'm dating i've been having some of these thoughts about you know always protect yourself first i guess is my point trying i'm trying to make this a cautionary tale but it really it really did strike me you know hearing the details of this and being three or four years in i think that you your brain doesn't or for me my own perceptions i don't think about things in those in those ways sometimes when you hear about cases like this it's people that they didn't know for very long this is someone she knew really well and i'm sure did never thought that that would treat her that way or i'm sure never thought that she was in danger in that way so it's it's just such a it's such a tragedy for for her certainly in her family i mean you also don't know um how much of himself he was actually showing her great point because i mean i am blanking on what his name is but that uh that police officer a month or so ago who it came out that he had multiple girlfriends in multiple different states and he was married and had children and they had no idea any of this was going on so it's insane to me how much somebody can hide yeah from the person that they're the most intimate with and i think what i'm speaking to really is my own fears okay that's exactly it you know though it's so true like there's so many things that people can hide from you and that's just it's so terrifying to think about yeah it is it really is okay ladies time to move on it is now time for our comments section and since so many of you wrote on youtube last week that you were so excited and happy to have owen michael back oh and by the way launched this podcast 101 episodes ago that we thought oh you should always come back and do the comment section he runs the website and all the other stuff for true crime so what have you got today in the comments section hello hello hello ladies um and i'd like to talk later if we could about maybe um matching cops going forward with respect to lauren christie i'd like to think about it poach that idea dude it's a good choice to make yeah yeah yeah do some interesting things there um yes we do get comments on uh on our various social media platforms um you may have heard about this story uh lady gaga's dog walker was shot in hollywood last week and two of her dogs were stolen unfortunately but the dog walker is now recovering uh in the hospital he's um uh well enough he's been doing an instagram post and giving his account of how the whole thing went down if you haven't heard about that story it's uh uh basically lady gaga was out of town i believe she was in rome doing some work as she does and her dog walker in hollywood was walking three french bulldogs and apparently somebody drove up two people drove up tried to basically fought with this uh this dog walker his name was ryan fisher uh and they ended up shooting him twice in the chest and they took two of the dogs uh the third dog did not uh get taken apparently uh the dog comforted fisher while he was bleeding on the ground before paramedics arrived like i said he is safe uh the third dog miss asia was safely recovered now we have uh the other two french bulldogs uh koji and gustav have been returned um lady gaga did offer a 500 000 reward for the return of the dogs no questions asked lapd did say that a woman dropped off the dogs last friday night but she's not considered a suspect and it's kind of unclear if there's any if there's any reward going out or not um however this is a story still developing lindsay g says people are crazy shooting someone to steal two dogs sure i know frenchies are worth a pretty penny but still uh apparently that's true the french bulldogs are um a very coveted dog these days uh not as not as uh for my taste i'd rather have a rescue chihuahua lucky for you we have a few in several of these homes that's right uh donna l says this is a thing people steal pets and sell them in other towns sadly it's a quick buck uh it does seem to be a a thing that recurs once in a while in los angeles every couple times a couple times every year we hear about uh sort of high high-end dog napping um which believes which leads us to teresa a who says i wonder if they were new i wonder if they knew they were her dogs which is interesting whether these people targeted um whether they knew this was a celebrity owned a dog or whether they were just after french bulldogs but uh again thankfully ryan fisher is recovering he's uh looks like he's gonna survive um he's not just uh we will give you updates on that story well you know what's interesting about this is that there was you know people obviously the the animal people there everyone's like losing their minds are the dogs okay but there were a lot of comments that were critical of lady gaga for offering the reward for the dogs no questions asked as if that were suggesting that we don't need to find the assailants meaning wait a minute what do you mean no questions asked 500 000 for the dogs what about the poor man in the hospital there was a lot of criticism uh on in social on social media about that i i don't i don't know what i think about this case ladies well my question is what's the legality there because she can say no questions asked but can the police not now pursue this woman as a potential connection i mean i i don't know i i i'm curious about that i you know this is a i'm not exactly clear on this myself either but i think that she's certainly allowed to you know uh say to the public i'm willing to give a 500 000 away for this i'm sure the lapd probably um you know probably behind the scenes said you know there's going to be some questions asked this is also obviously um that was her response the day after it happened so i think there was a lot of he he of the moment type of stuff going on where people were reacting like yes there was a man who was almost died walking the dogs i can see i suppose how they might think that was insensitive about the thing but i think she just really wanted to you know get the dogs back and she was obviously she's going to cover medical bills and that kind of thing for um the dog walker but um yeah some of this stuff seems to be sort of on the fly uh uh reaction and i'm sure that we will hear more about this i don't i'm i'm definitely fascinated to find out how this uh strange woman showed up at the police station and said hey i found these dogs walking on the street or whatever i mean and i know i'm sure there's gonna be nothing yeah like how does this happen how do you just find two very expensive frenchies that you know the entire world knows have been dog-napped there's a very suspicious she may very well have nothing to do with it but there has to be how is that possible right like how did that happen in order to accomplish that i don't know i wild conjecture maybe she knows the dog nappers themselves and managed to talk who knows i mean i'm sure that um the high-profile situation will get some updates on it as well but uh yeah to tune in uh for more we'll definitely have more compliments to come on the future on this for our second case a woman in tulsa was arrested in a burglary investigation after allegedly breaking into a house occupied by a woman and her two children two young kids and the suspect left incriminating evidence behind and on her person allegedly of course someone had knocked out a spring while the family was home and came through the window but apparently realizing the house was occupied the suspect fled a bag of cheetos and a water bottle were left at the scene as i said a bag of cheetos was left at the scene by the suspect the master thief tulsa police officers detained sharon carr in the area and the victim reportedly identified her as the suspect the police report said that carr was further linked to the crime by cheeto residue on her teeth there but for the grace uh ww says chester cheetah may have been on the case indeed uh he's a suspicious character pamela c says that's how i would get caught kitkat rappers would do me in snack food don't don't commit crimes with snack food uh jimmy a could not resist the crunch uh yeah could be um i saw another uh another comment this could be a viral uh marketing campaign uh i don't think you never know that you know maybe some smart people over cheetah cheetos as our uh are going to use this as an opportunity stay tuned well i've got to ask christy cause she's a mom of kids right she's got several small kids okay so when you see the cheetos residue on the teeth and you're being told no mom i did not get into the cupboard what does christy mom say oh i mean my kids would be not just in the teeth it would be cheeto fingerprints on the cupboards and just all along the wall and on the towel from wiping their faces off i mean that right away is you know what's happening um it tells its own story my big question here is so she brought snacks to to break into somebody's house or she stole the snacks uh i get the idea that it was uh um that she's just you know as one does uh you know you're carrying around a snack in a bottle of water and a crime of opportunity presents itself uh or you know she was uh expecting it to be an empty house thought she'd be there for a little while uh take her time enjoy uh enjoy a a snack a snack and a beverage while she's doing this um it's tough to say i don't know that we're going to get a lot of updates from the tulsa piece on this one but uh i will strive to uh gather that news as it happens i just like the idea of someone walking around with the cheetos and a bottle of water and being like you know what this needs some netflix i wonder if where's a house where's a tv i don't have a tv so she went to the nearest tv she could find to just like sit and binge the crown or whatever it was i just like it who who brings the snacks and like i mean kudos to her for being like oh there's people here i didn't know and then anything like at least she didn't uh you know it wasn't like a bag of peanuts or something like that where uh you know crucial evidence would not be would not have been so um obvious uh wouldn't stick to the teeth yeah but she'd smell like peanut butter and then it would be more of a scent thing than uh circumstantial that's circumstantial uh i'm not uh i'm not gonna uh you know we'll see i just feel like cheetos the terminology is dust like we all know the term cheetos dust and i think of dusting for fingerprints and i think about like i don't know that i would have been eating something that i could so easily you know i know it was found in her teeth but i i feel like i personally not that i'm a criminal um but i i maybe wouldn't have been putting something on my hands and then touching a window to commit a crime that would leave a very you know orange print of my finger this would be uh i i can't say for sure but i would i would bet that this would probably be the first forensics uh the first time a forensics investigator would have some of their work done for them by cheeto dust owen thank you as always such a pleasure thank you thank you thank you see you next week see you next week well that is our program for this week lauren and christy it's been such a pleasure to have you on where can people find you on social media where can they find your podcast tell us everything yeah the podcast is true creme and cocktails you can find us on our website www dot cocktails that's got links to everywhere you can listen to us all the different places we're basically streamable anywhere podcasts are streamable you can find us on youtube all of the above and you can find us on social media instagram at true crime and cocktails facebook at and cocktails and on twitter at not detectives those are not detectives i love that now i noticed on your instagram that you have some great pieces of either animation cartoons artwork a variation that's done by your fans i love that it's the craziest thing in the world to me i mean again i am a stay-at-home mom and so like six months ago five months ago even um nobody really know who i was and now all of a sudden we're getting fans who are so insanely talented drawing all these pictures one made a video they're just sending all this stuff in and i just appreciate that they're drawing me thin i said that to my husband last night i was like ooh they keep drawing me very skinny and i'm here for that it's just so impressive and i love it so much it's it just all happened out of nowhere and people are just really getting on board and we could not appreciate that more oh it's wonderful it's been a pleasure to have you on because i love the perspective you know the crime fan we i always call this the extended crime family and everyone's got some role and some point of view that always makes the discussion really interesting and christy i love the fact that you just love to dig for information and what i like about our podcast is how interactive it is especially on youtube with the comments because people will share what they think their theories and i always love hearing that because sometimes i'll miss something or i'll be like oh i hadn't considered that and i love that interactive nature of it oh yeah we definitely like that is our i think that's been our thing from day one we just want to build a community of you know like-minded people safe space you come in you say what you want about a case and we will we take their comments and their thoughts and we've done fan theory episodes where we talk about them but it's just great to have like just a community where everyone can come together and we all like the same thing and it's it's just everyone's so supportive of everybody else it's just been a really beautiful thing well thank you it's been a pleasure also i did notice um on your personal instagrams that lauren you have rescue chihuahuas at least one rescue chihuahua yes i have two two two yeah okay i have a rescue chihuahua miss jackie oh who today at least is sleeping upstairs a few weeks ago she was barking during the episode and then christy you have snoring cats yes i mean i have two cats one is very well known for snoring we've decided she's kind of like bagpipes where she's just you she's very a very loose cat and you pick her up and she makes the weirdest noises so we're like okay she's our little uh she's our little set of bagpipes but what would you do without animals you know oh i don't know i don't know and i'm always you know worried when i meet someone who doesn't like animals it's like not liking children right like specifically not liking them it's like uh if you don't have an opinion that's fine but specifically not liking is like i'm suspicious and i have extended that now as a as a mother of chihuahuas specifically people who chihuahuas get a bad rap oh god they do people think that they're yappy and bitey and all of the above well they are and they and they are but they're also the most loving loyal amazing smart hilarious dogs i think you know people's perception of them especially when people have met uh my dogs often changes they're like wow i didn't realize that chihuahuas could be so affectionate and that they're so cute and funny and i i that for me is you know my my plea to people always is just keep an open mind keep an open mind you know um you know i agree there's problems in every breed you know there's always going to be some individual um some individual uh jerks but they're not all that way uh i know what i love about jackie o cause she's a rescue from the van nuys animal shelter she was a featured pet in the front nobody wanted her she was in the cage and she looked terrible and like you're trying to figure out like why didn't anybody want her when she's there in the very front and she'd been available then i figured it out when a bunch of kids ran by and she's in her cage and she's like i will kill you and i was like wow is she really like that and then when they took her out i saw she was so sweet and docile maybe she you know i figured maybe the running around was too much i'm like i'm not gonna run around and she's funny that way she is as the most affectionate dog i've ever had i love her to pieces i say she rescued me but i gotta tell you when she's out there and she sees like the neighbor dog like she she is like i will kill you i will kill you and if a bird flies by the house she gets very upset i'll kill you yes i'm up one of mine peaches she's four or four and a half pounds and uh she will try and take on any other size dog we may see in the neighborhood and she gets her entire back mohawk the fur like yes goes up and it is truly hysterical and i just always say i'm like well she's doing her best to protect me she's doing what she thinks is right right she's a tough girl i just say she's a tough girl from van nuys exactly and if you're from l.a you know what that means 100 100 well ladies thank you so much you can find me and uh tales of jackie o at energy news anna with 1n um as always you can find our content on spotify apple podcast stitcher google podcast and of course on youtube get updates by subscribing to our newsletter which owen works very hard on just go to truecrimedaily.com until next week this is true crime daily the podcast i'm your host anna garcia and as we always say don't do crime you

Channel: True Crime Daily

Views: 313,132

Keywords: Lady Gaga, French bulldogs, Christy Oxborrow, Ana Garcia, True Crime and Cocktails, Lauren Ash, True Crime Daily Podcast

Id: XCIV37V0h9Y

Length: 68min 12sec (4092 seconds)

Published: Fri Mar 05 2021