Mike Posner On Making Art, Embracing Grief & Walking Across America | Rich Roll Podcast

[Music] perfume on my shirt puts me in the past - tough to be without but too afraid to ask yeah Here I am again stuck in the middle [Music] Here I am again stuck in the middle hole too young to settle down too old to be in bars it's hard to take it easy it's easy to be hard yeah Here I am again stuck in the middle Here I am again stuck in the middle yeah I am again stuck in the middle hmm Here I am again stuck in the middle forgive me I am building my ship as itself how do I become who I'd want to be while still remaining myself people love the me I don't know where he's gone too tired to be famous too vain to be unknown yeah [Music] Here I am again stuck in the middle Here I am again stuck in the middle yeah I am again stuck in the middle Here I am again stuck in the middle home [Music] yeah that is insane man thinks so beautiful thank you for that I love it thanks for this moon it's so poignant ly honest and vulnerable and and and raw and I think that's really a touchdown of your work you know my favorite line is too tired to be famous too vain to be unknown you know yeah it's like the courage to you know admit that right yeah is it almost takes um it's easier to just admit it yeah there's be a lot of and it takes a lot of energy to sort of decide okay I'm gonna share these things with people and this list of things about myself I'm I'm not and that takes a lot of energy to sort of constantly be navigating and a lot of bandwidth our founders just a little little simpler to just be honest and truthful yeah well I think it's interesting in the context of you know the evolution of your career is somebody kind of started out in the rap world doing rap battles you know back in high school or it's all about fronting and ego - you know this arc to come to this place of just raw emotional vulnerability you know to come to the I mean I think of you it's interesting looking back at the origins of how you began with you know influences you know coming directly from traditional rap into this guy who got up to me feels a lot more like Cat Stevens you know meets in queue with his poetry and this kind of folk sensibility wrapped up in in pop with its roots in hip hop and rap it said the genre thing is a trip young because um I love a lot of different music is today is January what ninth night and the last week or so I've made like four hip hop songs in a row just straight rap songs you know and so it's like yeah I mean I get in the cab people are confused yeah I get in a cab a different City you know hey how's it going what do you do I'm a recording artist what kind of music do you make how do you answer that I don't never know what to say I say I jump around to every alcohol and um yeah I think I'm really good at a bunch of very good out of it I don't know it is - yes I don't I don't feel like I fit in one of those box yeah I feel like I fit in all of them so how do you follow that muse I'm sure there's pressure you know on you oh you need to be in this lane you know this is what works this is what people want I mean I know when you played the Lions game on Thanksgiving Day like people hadn't seen you with the beard yeah and now they were freaking out because they're just to seeing you in a certain light that was so tough at the time but so helpful uh you know wait a few months of hindsight so you know first of all to answer your original question is you really try not to pay attention as much as you can to the reaction to the art you know for me the reward is in the making of the thing in the first place and if something becomes really popular which is happened a few times in my career you know I made thousands of songs but I've had like five that have gotten like it's absurdly popular I don't know why or how but it happens every once in a while but he tried just to kind of ignore that it's almost part of my job to ignore that and because the tendency if you pay too much attention is to replicate or emulate something you already did that was quote-unquote successful so it's just sort of leave that behind and then listen to whatever you know yeah that right for me I'd have some sort of practice to be quiet Taoiseach really helps and listen to what comes up and me and then just follow that the things just pop in my head and my job is to get them recorded and produced the way they sound in my head and that's it if you feel like your your your job is really to open that channel but it's less about you that it's that it's coming from some other place sure I mean look we all have a ton of thoughts that come in our head each day and do you really get credit for the thoughts that pop in your head it I like to take credit something yeah I do too you know it's like but the the honest answer is like the song just popped in my head mm-hmm and I wrote it down do I get credit for that I mean I guess in our society way it's set up yeah I do I get paid for and all this stuff but at the end of the day I think it's yes more about listening you know listening to I'm always scared I like superstitious all you laying in bed at night and you know melody pops in my head or something like that and I'm tired like get up and put this down boom I'm always worried that maybe it sounds silly but I'm worried I will forget but I'm worried that if I don't put it down whatever is sending them to me will stop right so given this you're not honoring it yeah so you're not gonna pay attention I'm gonna send this idea to somebody else yeah that's uh that's very similar to you know Elizabeth Gilbert I know of her as she was this was recommended she was like this book called big magic okay and one of the ideas is a great book but one of the ideas in that book is that the idea is all of these ideas are kind of floating around in the clouds and you know as an artist your job is to finally attune that that radar that antenna so that you can pull it down and nurture that idea but if you don't somebody else is gonna grab it right in its timing a lot of it is timing right yeah so I like that idea like oh if I don't if I don't write this down and get it down right now like that Muse is gonna travel elsewhere I don't know if it's true but it might yeah do you have like a formal writing process like what does that look like I do not you know I'm 30 years old I'll be 31 February 12 and I started writing my first raps when I was 8 so I'm like 22 years into this thing and I have written songs every which way from I written them that night rhythm in the morning hour I written them two beats that are already done I've written them on the guitar started with melody started every every way so there's n't one thing like oh I get that I get the hook or the lyric no I tried to figure this out I'll tell you what I did a few years ago I made a spreadsheet with what I thought were my best songs he was like 10 songs on there my best ones to me not the my biggest one and so and then I tried it I made another all these columns where I wrote down every everything I could remember the season the time of day I wrote it the mood I was in what I ate that day I want just everything I can remember to see if there was some sort of pattern because if if you know if if alternative them came at 7:00 p.m. right all gonna stop writing trying to write at 10:00 a.m. so I found no pattern other than I think more than half of them were were second attempts at an idea or used an idea that had some some failed idea was being reworked in a lot of these things that was the only pattern right but as far as like yeah specific process or timing it was there was no pattern like like having an idea but not executing on it write it right away and letting it marinate and you can execute on it and failing you know sometimes we read a song that's a bad song but has one great line in it so then later you might be writing a great song and you steal that line from that bad song you just throw that bad song away right yeah on that idea of trying to find quietude you know tuning out all the signals that are coming at us it's getting harder and harder to do that with our phones and with the internet it's so easy to distract ourselves with these addictive devices that I would imagine as an artist you have to be very disciplined about making sure that you carve out that special time to create outside of that kind of influence that's always you know kind of bearing down upon us correct you know for me I have a meditation practice which is I meditate a minimum of 20 minutes twice per day so that route that really helps like for passing art what is that um I usually am doing TM yeah I've done of the pasta retreat that was no joke man you don't want to lose no but I it's on my to-do list for this year that was no joke oh man ten days ten days I which sonner did you go - I went to one in Texas just because that's what the way the dates worked out and I was coming off twelve days at a monastery where I was in solitude for how long I was there twelve days and in that one I was completely alone and so there was no program whatever and so my confidence was pretty hot my god good - yeah I said I got this I got the real thing was no joke man it's the sheer physicality of it because you on a mat on the floor sitting cross-legged for ten hours a day for ten days I think my back was lit up man it was no joke and you know waking up at 4:00 a.m. you're basically just meditating it's right 10:00 p.m. or something like that I've heard from I've talked to a lot of people that have that I've done those retreats and my sense is that you get it you get to your breaking point at like I don't know day seven or something like that that's when a lot of people bolt but you gotta just stay yeah man it I always cook because at the VIII passionate ones you don't um there's no talking and beyond that there's no like they're not supposed to be any communication she's not supposed to be like gesturing or an even eye contact but yeah and you're in there's assigned mats if you will so it is like you the people next to you are the same every sit and you sort of make things up about your brain at least starts to make things up but like you know I would I come in and like I felt like they were my battalion you know I'm like okay let's do this guy and then like the dude next to me he like the third day he didn't come back I'm he's gone I was like and the guy next to me I just really like there's something about him I I liked him I was like man in my head I was going please do not quit man I need you hit me right every what sorry on the last day like let's you start talking TomTom you know sort of have a transition period back to getting in the real world then everyone is kind of doing that teacher like man you helped me so much guys like really yeah that connection that intimacy that that can be created without any language or real interaction yeah I'm sure you felt like you really knew those people yeah I did and then sometimes I would talk to him on the last day and sometimes they were exactly who I thought they were and sometimes they were like the opposite yeah it's fascinating I'll tell you a story from my third day there there was a guy sitting in front of me and he was overweight he didn't look very healthy he looked like sort of like a worn man and I I'm not proud to say I felt sort of like repulsed by this guy and every time we'd sit and it's dead quiet in there and you're supposed to not really move you know and this guy would be fidgeting you know couldn't get change his leg whatever and I was getting so annoyed we get to the third day and I'm having real tough time it hurts man your back you know and I thinking why why did I pick to do this is ridiculous man and all the sort of background negativity that's running it you kind of got to deal with yeah when you're when you're there and so in this particular sit day three I'm fidgeting a lot and we're 4550 minutes into this hour-long said and I I'm just out of it I opened my eyes which I'm not supposed to do and there's this guy and he's sitting like the gosh-darn Buddha like person showing you what's what I start crying because I thought you're such a you're such an yeah I mean here's this man who he's showing up to this theme and it's got to be harder for him than you to sit like this and he's showing up and you're over here judging him about how he looks are you fidgeting what he's such an man and and the thing that work that made me cry that I felt so ashamed was because I know it's not that I know I'm doing that all the time you know judging people right and judging myself and that was a bit of an eye-opener for me I wish I could say I don't do it at all anymore but it's it takes time to sort of unlearn - yeah just put it right up in your grill yeah but meanwhile you're not really supposed to be thinking about anything focus on that breath economist well what got you an equanimity man that's the goal what got you into meditation I grew up in Athey I grew up it's sort of what's real is real and was sort of a like Midwestern Jewish pessimism about the world and when I was 24 I saw a friend of mine who a lot of your listeners will probably know Watchers mean viewers isn't he his knees Big Sean um and and Sean and I had known each other since we were 18 you know used to come to my house and make music he calls my mom mom this kind of thing and so when I'm 24 both of our careers have sort of started and his career is like exploding at the time for the first time he's having his first sort of wave and he we're both la he says come the studio so I go a studio meet up with him and I'm sure you and and everyone hearing this has had a moment where someone just lights you up there for whatever reason being around them makes you feel good they you might even be around them and they leave and you still feel good and that's what happened that day he was just like he was just in the good in a good place and it was reverberating out to not just me everyone around him so I went home and the next day I came back to the studio I go what's what's up with you man what's going on here cuz he's doing I mean his career he was like shelved for six years I mean he's signed the Kanye for years and years and years and years and nothing happened and then all of a sudden bang it was just all happening and and he was in such a good spot with it so all of us what song he goes you gotta read these two books two books one was the alchemist uh-huh and the other was a book called ask and it is given by Esther and Jerry Hicks in the channel the ni saigo seems to be working for him I get the books man you know him that's sort of open my whole world ignited your whole spirit yeah and that was the beginning and the the forward to asking his giving was written by a guy named Wayne Dyer dr. Wayne Dyer from Detroit I didn't know he was from Detroit he actually was my mom's like council high school counts really cool yeah that's crazy yeah Wow and so his his foreword really resonated with me and I remember one of the quotes ed said um I don't think he made it up but it said when you change the way you look at things the things you look at change it out that that was just so foreign to me blew your mind blew my mind so I start youtubing him and he has some guided meditations so that's those were the first meditations I ever did and then I went into TM and then ever since man yeah that's interesting I I would have suspected that the path that you're on was born more out of some of the you know painful moments in your life but it really sounds like it came from a pure aspiration to just you know inhabit you know a different level of consciousness because you saw your friend who was doing well yeah and happier and I think there was some like it's probably some jealousy mixed into like waiting to write I want to do that so I'm not proud of that but I'm sure that was mixed in there as well well let's track it back to to to Detroit man to the beginning okay so you started you started writing raps when you're eight yeah in Detroit yeah so exists like 8 mile Detroit no no I'm from I was born in Detroit proper and I grew up in a place called South field sure south field borders Detroit so everyone knows the movie eight mm-hmm south to eight miles Detroit and the other side south of Detroit's 8 mile on the other side is South field it's kind of confusing and mouthful but other than South field which is where I lived at least was a was a middle sort of middle class demo demographically ethnically it's very similar Detroit so it's not like Bloomfield Hills it's not boom villian I'm from Grosse Pointe yeah oh is that right I was born there I mean we we moved when I was young when I was like seven so I can't really say I grew up there but my parents are from Detroit that's great you know where they went to high school Grosse Pointe yeah is it East Point yeah is it Grosse Pointe North too I don't know yeah I think it I think it was east or south one of those on East yeah yes so the South field is like it's not the hood at all at least my part of it ethnically it's about I think 75 percent african-american uh-huh the young the old the younger people like the kids tend to be even more african-american and the sort of the older population is more white but we have like I had a bunch of boys on my street we sort of played basketball everyday we rode bikes all around had your crew it was a magical place to grow up man my mom still lives there and I go back all the time I love it there mm-hmm I love Sofia I love Detroit so that's where it all begins so where does the music pop and I first started playing drums I was like in fifth grade and I had a few older cousins that rapped I thought they're cool man and and a lot of my buddies they listen to hip-hop so first hip hop I heard was like was on TV it was like DMX and mr. Cole and I thought and then I later sort of got into more like underground called it underground now like Todd quali in outcasts almost deaf and these kind of things and I remember the head he wants yeah a couple of my buddies were intellectuals yeah they were having a sleepover Aaron Webster and Ronny Posey still my buddies and for whatever reason we decided we're gonna freestyle tonight at this sleepover and Ronnie's house and so we all sort of found CDs that had music without words on it I remember I brought a Moby CD cuz there was a track on the end of the sea that didn't have any top line and so I put this on we all tried freestyling and I remember they they sort of felt like oh that was fun and I remember thinking I'm never gonna stop that I'm never I'm gonna get really like a moment I'm gonna get really good did you have like a conscious awareness that that was kind of a flick the switch it wasn't even a decision I just knew I'm really good at that and I did so now I would practice freestyling up and at first I'd my mom had a computer with like a terrible microphone on the top and I figured like on some of the old windows there was like a voice recorder so if I played you know music through the computer speakers and rapped at the same time course or make a recording yeah there's like one of my buddies has these like terrible things where my voice hasn't dropped yet and I'm like he bit so I started doing that and my mom bought me a keyboard from Best Buy eventually that she let me hook up to her computer I started figuring out how to make beats and I was stealing a lot of software off the internet yeah and yeah man I just kept going and like mentioned earlier high school I used to battle you know and which for me I was always small in high school so I mean basketball was everything man basketball was everything like I the thing I wanted more than anything was to be good at basketball yeah I was tiny and then what I tried real hard played good defense but like it's not gonna happen it wasn't gonna happen you know and so here in this this rap area my weakness actually before it became my strength because I was so unassuming I'm so small not so white that when I would say a line that like I get a bigger reaction right because it was not expecting a surprising surprise me so so that make you like I for you a popular kid in high school then for being able to do that I once a I was popular by all his friends everyone yeah it's sort of like my relationship with genres now was the same way I was with cliques at school I'm cool with that everyone do I really belong to any of them not really I'm a floater kind of yeah well the guy who can throw down like you is gonna be able to ingratiate himself with the athletes and with the stoners and with you know pretty much every hand crew right yeah and you know that was really when music did begin to to deepen me as a human to what I was doing beats and I was selling beats to rappers in addition to recording my own stuff and the rappers all lived in the hood so I would end up in these neighborhoods that I wouldn't have otherwise been in and I just learned a lot I had more of an awareness for the the privilege that I that I have and that I grew up with uh-huh and when I finished high school I was a good student and I went to Duke University after and I met a lot of kids who didn't have that awareness and I actually felt really bad for them he's definitely a big cultural change yeah I mean you sort of like trust-fund babies and you know a lot of people might might actually feel jealous of them I never felt jealous of them I felt I felt sort of sad for them because you know I only live in this one little bubble of life and you know since music has taken me era take me here today's it's been a magical way to navigate the world has taken me all over the world well you seem like you're like a good kid right I mean your mom I mean education must have been import for you to get into Duke and you know be a kid who's like doing the rap thing but also getting good grades at the same thing yeah like those two things don't usually coexist no yeah I mean usually just artists in general hates well I actually didn't like school but I love getting a's i don't know what it what cuz there was no sort of like there was no reward in my house and some of my friends that get a and their mom get him like money or something like that or and there was no punishment either if i got a bad grade i just i don't know i always was like if I was in a class I just expected to ace everything and I've studied you know it worked hard and so you're a Duke and you were in like a frat right yeah she did like the full Duke thing but you're like making beats in your dorm room at the same time yeah I'm trying to just visualize yeah so I I met um I the summer before Duke I interned at the radio station in Detroit uh-huh so you yeah you were collaborating with Big Sean in high school right he was right that summer right before we meet and I gave him a couple beats and this kind of thing and then I leave to go to Duke Sean mind you had a scholarship to Michigan State but Kanye signed I mean he said don't go to Michigan State why because you're gonna be a rapper date you know don't go to college so I got a Duke Sean stays in Detroit and I got my little setup in my dorm room I'm making beats I'm sending them I'm sending every beat I make back to Sean he's the only guy I know right you know that's like got a record deal right but he's working with Kanye I mean that's your he's our Calle exactly and he's working with some of our other buddies from Detroit I remember how's that Duke and math test and I was used to being like one of the smartest kids at Duke I was like the toughest kid I remember studying for his math that's really hard and I got it back and I failed it it wasn't like I had slacked off and like man I had worked on in study and I failed it and a day later I got his news from Shawn that the producers our other buddies in Detroit Kanye was gonna sign them too and I go man I man did I mess up mmm that should have been me I should have stayed in Detroit I'm over here feeling math test and these guys nice I'm like all right with a bunch of frat boys yeah Oh even think of year passes you know I just keep making beats keep sending them to Shawn and I make like a hundred beats in a year send them all to him he might use like two of them and then I had this sort of weird idea to start start singing my raps and where did that come from because prior to that you weren't singing at all no which is crazy because you have this elegiac voice that you know I can't yeah I can't imagine a time in which you weren't singing thank you a lot of practice later but um I Jack Johnson was was blown up at a time sorta had this like harebrained scheme to make like a hip-hop Jack Johnson band right where would Hannah and Jack Johnson was huge at Duke yeah you know he's huge everywhere in time and yeah and so it seemed and uh so I had this idea of like having acoustic guitars J Dilla drums I would wrap and and rap and likes her singing and there was another guy at our school erik whole gist he would sing he was like a real singer and and then so i started his band mike posner in the brain trust and we start putting stuff out and really what happened was the two guys in the band quit Eric was the real singer and I love Eric Tuesday he has a another band called Delta ray that he started after and they're very wildly successful now and Jeff oh he bring his guitar back and so I like man I gotta start singing the stuff and what was interesting to me was as I was such a big hip-hop fan and I had never heard a rapper I never heard a singer sing the way I really wanted to hear a singer sing as a hip-hop fan so an example is like um my first popular song is this one cooler than me yeah and it has the complex rhymes in it multi syllabic rice which I never heard singers use so I'll show you what I mean I say you got design or shade just to hide your face so not only do shades and face right but designer and hide your Roger also and that to me which is freaking cool like I never had a singer do that yeah well when you sing it you don't immediately think hip-hop but when you deconstruct it you can see it yeah but like a hip-hop fan we hear that right you know so you're like you're bending the genre I mean it's really bending bending the genre from the beginning is what cracks it open for you it was a weird sort of like it took 12 years so at this point I'm 20 I made music all this all these time it wasn't all 20 that I stumbled on this thing that was influenced by others but was unmistakably mine hmm and I knew right away everyone's reaction was different people were singing the song all over Duke campus and Brice you make these demos right and they're getting played at the parties they play at the prize people and and I didn't go to the parties because I was recording in my dorm and the only time is loud in dorms the only time you could really record when everyone else goes out 11 p.m. to 2:15 am so that's that was your vocals window that's what my vocals went down my buddies would come back maybe like man they play cooler than me at the party everyone knew it which that never happened to me then my mom calls me she goes I like this song cooler than me really I love my mom to death she's an honest woman she never told me she liked any of my stuff before always supported me bought me instruments pay for lessons she never said I like this personally she says she like courting me then Big Sean called me he goes Cort Amin's like a hit song man like a we talking about me yeah if both your mom and Big Sean like it exactly that's what I was thinking and so then that it just sort of started from there yeah and what's what's unique and cool and kind of of the moment of that time is the fact that you end up releasing this song on iTunes you yeah right because that was there was no Spotify you couldn't as a consumer just upload your music onto the internet to distribute it right but you kind of found this loophole correct and and this was at a time when music was being pirated at a very high rate and music industry was really in trouble and I knew better than anything when I had the Duke Internet we were stealing everything you know and so it was just like full Napster era or a little bit was a few years after losing BitTorrent stew Kranthi and LimeWire yeah all that kind of stuff and so typically if you made a what they call mixtapes which was like a free album a lot of times rappers before they make their album they make a mixtape okay which would include some original stuff and we'll also include them rapping over other people's beats now I made a mixtape and my mixtape was hosted by Don Cannon who did all the the biggest mixtapes okay I had this very legitimate cosign from Don Cannon and typically you'd put this thing out on a website called datpiff.com and there was like a Z share link you click the Z shot already lost yeah it's like it was his really confusing thing there were ads all over it trying to trick you to click other and then like you had to navigate your way to a place where you'd actually right click and hit like save target eyes and it would download and I knew I could get my stuff in those places on that website and stuff but what but I also remember my friends tell me these these white girls at Duke know the words to this song so I'm thinking I gotta I gotta get in a place where they they can get it too because I know they're not always he shared they're not on datpiff so I haven't was easier I'm gonna that pith but in addition I found his loophole with iTunes U which was set up for professors to post their lectures you know if you're a professor at Duke you can do a lecture on a topic and anyone from all over the country can get in the cool thing about iTunes U at that time was it was free mm-hmm yeah you could download lectures from all of these colleges correct yeah I think does it still exist I think so I was sort of transformed in some ways and so the loophole was I found the guy who ran iTunes U for Duke and I called him up and that we still text every once in awhile and I find out he's from he's from Southfield Michigan oh man it's like so lonely yes so he goes I heard he goes I'll put your home on there he goes up done that before and it's true I wasn't the first guy to do it so he put my alma on there and now my stuff is on iTunes but it's free now that's important because we weren't buying Kanye's albums we weren't buying new pays out we weren't buying jay-z we were stealing although yeah so I knew no one's gonna pay for my album because they don't know who the heck I am so it's important is free but it's also in this safe spot mmm iTunes and so um I started a Facebook group I got all my buddies to invite all their friends all my high school friends at different colleges and before I knew it I was I was being asked to come to every college man come play come play this fraternity this thing and I'd get there in there and everyone knew my stuff yeah so it's this interesting combination of artistry and entrepreneurship like yeah did you know learning how to like market your own goofy run a deal you know like DIY yeah yeah that's cool so so is that how it got like how did it get to because the next phase is super interesting like how did it get to you know all these record labels and jay-z yeah there's people I record labels that are looking for this sort of thing they're looking for artists that while they're doing a show and everyone knows the words to their stuff and they're not signed right so a few you know some people spotted me some ANR's and some managers reaching out and it's a small industry so sort of one label is Hamas on too late was then you can kind of go to a third one guy hey they're gonna offer me a deal do you want to have a meeting type of thing and so yeah my stuff started to catch on and I was taking these meetings I'm in my junior year at Duke I'm flying in New York I mean with Craig and Julie at Atlantic you know meeting with Barry Weiss at RCA and I'm going back to do again I'm in finals week you know and I'm writing this paper and my manager calls me and he says you gotta go back to New York I can't go back to New York what I need to do is finish his paper meet cuz okay I'm behind the eight ball a little bit here man and he goes yeah go back to New York jay-z wants to meet you I wrote jay-z didn't wanna meet me man don't mess with me he goes jay-z wants to meet you I go okay book the fly and I believed I didn't believe I thought I was gonna go and they would say hey we're sorry he's busy today you're gonna meet with someone so that's why I actually thought that happens all the time like if you've been around entertainment that's stuck it goes that way yeah not and I would it's yeah that's what I expected man so I didn't tell any friends you know and I get on the plane I go to to New York do you think sorry to interrupt you but do you think that impetus like I have to go even though I have a final was in part informed by this sense that you had made this mistake in going to Duke while Big Sean and those other guys were getting signed like you didn't want to miss another perhaps yeah I had a deal with myself in those years which was if there's any scent on the trail you gotta go so there were times where you know like the first time I was supposed to meet what can and did my mixtape I drove to Atlanta and he something got messed up like the guy connecting us and he was busy and I went there for no reason but I had to deal with myself there was sent on the trail you got to go and what's the ambition level look like at this point then or now bad hi well I tell you what change it for me was was knowing Sean you know cuz I met Sean and then Sean really got his deal done with Kanye and he was gone in the studio with Pharrell he's gone in the studio with the dream he was meeting Madonna and this was a guy that I used to free start with you know we go back and forth in his hip-hop I always thought I was better than him not just you know I thought better than everyone and so this thing that seems so far-fetched before was just I knew what's gonna happen now I go Sean did it I'm next it's happening you know it's I just knew yeah and but I tell him all the time and it he really changed my life twice once by just living his life in that way show me what was really possible and then I again when you get tell me read those books right yeah and and you know by living it yeah in the studio that day and so J so you're on you go to New York yeah and Seana oh he helped out somebody a year before the jay-z meeting we're in Detroit and Kanye's playing going the dark tour okay and Shawn gets like guest listed 20 tickets so it's like all of our buddies are there man Shawn brings all of us backstage and meet Kanye and then it's like three months later Shawn calls me up and he goes Calle is playing MSG tonight you want to come jay-z supposed to be there I say I do ramen Michigan right phone is silent msg Madison Square yeah phone is silent for like 10 seconds my gosh probably Booker was a play he goes he goes yeah yeah you should ah so we go there I go to pick up the tickets at will call I'm gonna get back to the next meeting I got I go to MSG I go to will call say hey I'm Mike Posner tickets supposed to be here and they go we have no tickets for you Dane are you sure Michael maybe Mike open no tickets for you I call Sean I go man there's no tickets here for me he goes okay just meet me at the studio then I'm at the studio at Kanye I go upgrade yeah like thank God there are no tickets oh we go to a studio it gives me a dress he meets us downstairs and always in these nicer studios there's a lounge which is like a room for the managers to wait while arts meeting so he goes just wait in the lounge so he goes in the studio and you can hear the music they're playing and I hear one of the songs I did was Sean playing whoa and I know Kanye West is listening to this track who knows that I produced I sang the chorus on and Seana rap done and I I'm freaking out because I know if he likes this thing this could change my life like for real for real like so a song is I see a bunch of people walk by the lounge towards the elevator I go I guess we're leaving now so I walk I follow him out and Shawn is there Kanye's there Shawn goes Calle this is Mike Posner he made the song they I just played you kind guys oh cool gives me a fist bite and then there's another silence five seconds ten seconds and very courageously I ask did you like it it kind of goes No oh no he goes it he goes maybe maybe it could be for Lupe it's not right for Shawn and then he said one of the coolest analogies or he goes I'm sorry Shawn bumped it you said it I had to spike it meaning like he played it you asked me I had to tell you the truth I'm like and then I'm thinking like how do you think of that that could assist you appreciate the honesty like on one level didn't feel I want to be very clear it did not feel rude at all uh-huh because you meet too many people and they all manage blow smoke up yeah yeah it was just honest have you Jonas have you and it helped me it helped me because I knew in my heart I had better stuff in me uh-huh and so we got in this elevator and all I wanted to do is make music I didn't want to quit I wanted to make more and that six months pass I keep doing my thing I keep plugging the stuff starts to catch on now I'm back in now I'm in the office with jay-z right all right well before you get into that two things okay first have you run into Kanye since yeah to talk about this yeah yeah I'll get to that all right today so we'll put we'll hit that later secondly I think it goes to that thing you were talking about about showing up like it could have what if he had liked it that could have changed your life and the fact that he didn't and he told you still held tremendous value in pushing you to do and be better for sure for sure but that wouldn't have happened had you not bought a ticket and gotten on the plane thinking you're going to a concert but being led into you know this other situation that you could have never heard I sent on the trail hmm and so I so now now I'm in finals week uh-huh six months later and eight I don't remember eight months later and I'm in jay-z's office I got my laptop I'm fumbling with the aux cable I get that thing in there I'm nervous I play cooler than me and jay-z goes like this he'll just like squish his face yeah just like in a way that you're not sure if he likes it no I you know he's into I knew he loved it I knew he loved it and we had this incredible meeting here I felt like he really understood me I was there like two hours which in hindsight I'm like that was ridiculous and I'm about to leave and I just had this inkling and go cap play one more song he says yeah so my laptop back in I play him who knows same song and he went nuts he goes - he goes I can't believe you almost left without playing this for me he got you know don't ever forget to play that song so I go back this is the same one kind of in like same something I go back to do I'm back in the library try to finish this paper in a moment of procrastination I opened up my email there is an offer for a record deal from rock nation now I end up signing with a different label but why two reasons one that the actual deal was was better mm-hmm significantly and secondly Shawn hadn't blown up yet so I look at my buddy who assigned to an artist as opposed to being signed to a major record label and I thought man I don't know is do the artists do they do anything or do they only care about themselves so I'll sort of hesitant now what I learned was later if you're signing to artists and you sort of get it's like this on any label you get the ball rolling yourself they can add a lot of kerosene to the fire you know if your sign of jay-z and you start blowing up you might do a feature on your second single you know and then paint kabane but it's a little bit of wait and see yeah but I hadn't it's like that with any label but I just hadn't seen it yet all I knew was my buddy had been signed to three years and nothing had really happened yet so I signed with a different label and weari release cooler than me a remix of cooler than me Big Sean was on the original cooler than me and this song sort of explodes and I go to the European Music Awards in Madrid Spain and I see Don see it was like Kanye's right-hand man and he's the man I could don't what he goes have you seen Kanye I go no I go I he probably doesn't remember me and he goes all on me in a DC so I look Calle he introduced me and he didn't remember me I got to just can't tell him the story I just told you and one of the things he said even before I said the story was ah Mike Posner because I really liked your music and I knew I had done my job after I got out of that elevator I went and I worked and I continued to get better and it felt really good that's pretty cool full circle and so much yeah I mean sometimes the the the failure in the moment is not really a failure it's it's a step on the path to success right right I mean you got to be able to hear that kind of constructive criticism without taking it personally or letting it deflate you but as somebody who I mean you're somebody who I get the sense fully owned the fact that this was gonna be your path had a deep profound knowing that somehow it was gonna work out for you so when you're that rooted and committed I don't know if you were obsessed but you were definitely you know full bore 100% headed in that direction yeah when you're in that place you're in a better situation to hear that kind of feedback without without it getting you derailed correct correct so this song blows up and does that change your life in some ways yes and others no and I'll tell you what I mean by that it changed the things I was doing so I'm playing concerts much more often for many more people I'm making more money I'm sort of parading around the world taking my shirt off at shows and unfortunately what I realized and it's such a gift to sort of fall into this kind of quote success at the age I was at which was like 23 the ways it didn't change my life was it didn't make me any happier it didn't make me any more comfortable in my own skin and it didn't clear up any of the insecurities I had with myself and what was especially disillusioning about that was I thought it would I thought when I get these accomplish these things I'll feel content in myself to a point where I'll actually be nicer to other people but I just wasn't well that's a shared delusion that's an epidemic and a culture right yeah I just get this if I can get this status or this thing or this job or this relationship or this bank account then that's gonna solve my problems and I can and I can relax and collect yeah I'm okay with myself and I don't know that um you can just hear two guys talking about that and believe them cuz I didn't you know I had to learn that myself and that's why I say it was a blessing a gift you know I feel that my audience has gifted me the opportunity to explore what life's about when you stop chasing shiny things right well the interesting thing is you had the awareness the conscious awareness to understand that the chasing was not going to resolve the dilemma because I think most people who find themselves in this situation which is a quality problem to have hey let's be clear yeah then perpetuate the delusion by saying all right well I just need one more hit correct I mean one more how neat well I got this nice house but if I just get the bigger house like they'll chase that to the grave great so to get off the train is something that eludes most people and it's difficult to do so why do you think you were able to do that I think I'm doing it still to be clear you know there's a there's definitely some part of me percentage that still does that still wants everyone to like me and it's upset when they don't and wants to so you how many years are not enlightened you're not an enlightened being you know look you're human so yeah but I think that person I know for sure honesty about is refreshing the percentage of that is lower each year I think you know it used to be a hundred percent you know I I didn't have any awareness of it it just it was me you know there was no part of me that was looking at this looking at this a you know objectively now I'd say I'd hope it's like under 50% of like why I do what I do well you have this huge hit and it puts you on the map but then you have kind of a fallow period where you're trying to make you know more hits thinking it's gonna be easy because your first one was huge so you've had the ups and the downs you know what it's like to be in both of those places and it reminds me of that thing that Jim Carrey has said which is something along the lines of like I wish everyone could be famous so they could realize like it's not the solution to what ails us or what we're truly looking that's a great line yeah that's a great line he's right yeah he's right plus the irony the added irony of the song that makes you famous cooler than me is this about you not being cool correct then it makes you cool it happened again yeah and I happen again you know so my second big hit that I sing was a was about the fall from Fame which I thought was was pretty interesting you know I took a pill in Ibiza yes I took a pill in Ibiza is about what happens like you're a one-hit wonder and then what happens with that really that story's not so well documented this is a line in there it says um you know I'm just a singer who already blew a shot I get along with old-timers cuz my name is a reminder of a pop song people forgot and the song time gods could I mean but then there's something about this song that ironically gives me another shot while setting aside you know the melody and the lyricism and the kind of you know beautiful technical aspects of what makes that a great song great pop song it's the honesty and the vulnerability that I think allows people to connect with your humanity thank you you know again and that's what we were talking about at the outset I mean that's a that's a theme that runs through your best work yeah and and to me that's not a departure from hip-hop authenticity and hip-hop matters a lot you know when you when you listen if you think about your favorite rappers they tend to be people that you believe what they say like they're not making up a story you know whether it be jay-z jay-z says he never lies in songs and that's probably true and it's cool cuz you there's an authenticity to it it their stories don't resemble my story mm-hmm but I've always tried to maintain that that feeling that what I'm saying is is true you know not as some pieces where they're like completely fiction and I think it's pretty obvious when it is but that yeah how do you swear there's a lot of fronting and hip-hop too right there's a lot of chest-pounding there is but if you think about your favorite guys you know I shouldn't say laughs I think about my favorite guys which are who I mean jay-z Kanye West no no top five is right now it's time for dangerous 103,000 you know J Cole you know Kendrick these are guys that are they're authentic you know isn't and if they're saying if they're saying they drive a certain car they probably actually have that car you know those guys that's funny which is not the case right and and and this saw how many years in between the two heads 2010 and like five or five years right yeah so you get that the the first hit you make it big suddenly you're touring you're traveling people know your name all that stuff you get the dope house in the dope car was there a little bit of like now I am gonna be cool like I'm gonna play this out like let's see what this experience is like yeah I mean I guess I was there doing what I thought I was supposed to do which which is sort of I'm sort of ashamed about now a lot of like um womanizing um this is like wasting money on like clothes and shoes and stuff like I had shoes I didn't even know I any remember I had and a certain point just couldn't justify it anymore you know I just like how do I have all this stuff and like how do I have 200 pairs of shoes or something ridiculous and there's someone within a mile from here that has none you know so I just I don't know I I I knew that making more more attention from the opposite sex more fame I knew I wasn't gonna change my experience of life did you have like a bottoming out moment with that or was it just sort of a slowly arising awareness that this wasn't what gonna work slowly a rising slowly arising in I remember I I bought a van on I think if I'm on Craigslist and added like sort of bent sheets in the back that fold out to a bed and a little closet and I just put the stuff in that could fit in there we donated the rest I just drove away from all your I join my house huh so yeah like I just left and I went to the I went to Utah and I always wanted to see if I could be happy without all my and I found you yeah so I should probably stop orienting myself orienting my life with with money fame notoriety attention from the opposite sex as my North Star uh-huh at the same time you were you're still writing songs but they just weren't connecting in the same way yeah I never stopped writing songs you know a lot of the sort of a gap in my career from 2010 my first album - my second 2016 but I made two albums in that time it was just that because my career had slowed up so much that my career was really considered over by my record thereby just sort of everyone in the English music industry yeah I was considered a one-hit wonder a good songwriter hire him to come in if if you if you want to hit single or something like that but him singing is that's sort of done and so my I was making these sounds but they weren't being released and I hope to one day sort of figure out the legalities and and get those out there Wow yeah it feels like it seems as if in that period after that hit when you're trying to you know replicate that or just you know in this presumption that you're gonna be able to you know create more and more hits you're fighting this growing sense that you are a one-hit wonder and it's only when you make total peace with that and then do it in a public way that everything then shifts again correct correct is like you can't have what's next until you're okay with what here now yeah and during that period of time is this when the kind of spiritual growth is starting to take root like what are you doing correct yes I started meditating and this book I'm asking it is given it changed my life is about sort of a wacky thing that people have a lot of opinions about by believing the law of attraction which is you sort of get what you think about so if I'm thinking about you know my success is coming then my success is coming if I'm thinking about it's not here yet I'm gonna get more of it's not here yet so there's this subtle shift in the in the thinking acceptance and freeing yourself from expectations yeah it's just sort of like um re brainwashing myself it really was like a brainwashing where I had to train my mind to think of my career myself differently than everyone else did you know cuz everyone else thought my thing was done and each day I would journal I was sometimes write the same sentence over and over and over again and I just got myself to I take walks where I'm repeating the same thing almost like a mantra in my head like I will accomplish this and eventually I started to really believe that and maybe maybe it's happenstance I don't know I can't say for sure I don't have a double-blind study but I know that I got my own internal dialogue to a point where just like the first time where I knew that was gonna happen cuz Sean did it I knew I was coming back yeah I knew my everything you know it was gonna be the one no because I thought it wouldn't be the one because it has a drug reference in the title and the first line so I'm thinking they're probably gonna play that on the radio yeah but I didn't know I I I knew was a good song when I wrote it yeah I liked it right away so this song it gets it gets remixed right and that was the one that goes bananas yeah and this song has been played like a billion I'm Nessen exaggeration like a billion times on Spotify right it's like something like but one of the top couple most stream songs I'm up in the history of the platform yeah at some point was like six months ago is number ten all-time all-time probably and past but how do things yeah that is insane it's insane it's crazy like how do you even process that oh no I guess I don't really like goose it started out at the beginning try not to really write you know cuz my job isn't to make another B's it's just to make whatever pops up next yeah well I feel like there's this interesting I don't know if it's a trend but this wave of artists musical artists who are kind of redefining what it means to be prolific and for lack of a better word like cool like the old trope of rock and roll star parties you know ends up in the grave too soon you know the Janis Joplin kind of scenario is outdated and now what's really interesting our people that are not only producing amazing art but doing it from a place of elevated consciousness like I see you as somebody you're you're like a spiritual warrior you're on this spiritual journey and the more you kind of raise your conscious awareness the better your work is and there's an infectious kind of spirit that emanates out from you perhaps in the same way that you felt from Big Sean when the hopes of making that and I see this you know with people like yourself but you know like in cue is somebody who's very much like that and I know is your boy but there's a lot of people now and and I think the public is embracing that and saying this is this is cool like look at these guys like they've gone through hard things and they're not just checking out with drugs alcohol and you know how many chicks they can sleep with or whatever like they're coming from it from from you know this higher plane I that's my this is so nice you to say that thank you is that's my aim you know if I could if I could be that for other people if I give that gift that Sean gave to me that day that's like my highest it's not the mission I know on your website you have like you can click on the mission tab and it's like one sentence yeah it's um to enjoy my life and help others enjoy their and in the meantime be as kind to other people as possible that's pretty salty it's my mission yeah you know and I had this crazy moment with Brom dust you know Rhonda of course so a buddy of mine his mother was dying and she had a relationship with around us they were friends Lisa Skype and they had a trip plan she died and my buddy says I still want to go we go with me to Hawaii tohe why we go go to Maui and we roll up on his house and it is like just you know beautiful and they let us in and they supposed to sit in the living room and he comes in on his electric chair and he's had a stroke and he looked at us with these big old eyes that just said I love you we could have been serial killers he listed and he said a bunch of words I heard him say before but some of you you you felt it was the energy you felt it I don't know how to explain it other than it was a palpable physical feeling and I left I walked out of his house he he talked to us for like 45 minutes and he goes okay time for you to go and healthy boundaries and I just want to stress it wasn't anything he said it was all stuff I'd heard him say before there's almost like recycled speeches it was him and we walked out door closed door and I like I killed over I he told us you're walking around all day and you're choosing and categorizing what to love and what not to love you know I like this I don't like this all day you're doing that he causes too much work just love everything look he goes see the see my friend told me we mean loved everything and he he sent me a dirty carpet I framed it there it is I love that carpet and he has a puja table right and so he's got like Gandhi and Maharaji and you know all these Saints right and then he kept keeps up then it was a picture like a George Bush now he keeps Donald Trump because he doesn't like George Bush and Donald Trump but he loves them and I just walk out the house they this is a whole different way to be in the world yeah that is that's that's heavy the oneness like be just unconditional love for all and the interconnectedness of everything correct and I thought I didn't feel like I met some guy something like date here I felt like I met a guy who did the work as I do has been meditating it you know he's done the work for last however many years 40 50 and I just made a deal with myself like that's that's what I want to be to other people what else do I have to do you know so what are you if I could light someone up like that yeah that's that's what I wanted how do you practice that how do you combat your own internal you know presets to override you know whatever judgments you have in order to kind of occupy that space well we keep going back to meditation that helps you know yoga helps sighs helps cuz he's sort of like cleared things out right yeah it's like yeah you know you finished some hard workouts like that's sort of like a reset right it's your back to zero and then you could create your own story so for me that that involves like a lot of studying you know whether is you know listen to a lot of these guys lectures like ROM das or and the watts or Abraham Hicks and Eckhart Tolle I just try to like brainwash myself with that stuff and I'm always I'm always trying to listen to to that stuff recently I've been um I just started this thing because I realized I'm always listening to like someone someone's lecture or like someone's like affirmations like when I'm going to bed I'm like it on a clip or and I thought I should make one for myself and so I just recorded some for myself that are like tailor-made for me like I know that I know that things I need to work on like you know that I still care too much about what other people think about me and you know and I know I can get petulant and frustrated and and sort of petty at times so I set up I sort of made my own recordings and I'm excited about sort of brain washing myself with those I like that yeah that's cool what do they say can you tell me are they just for you um I think I'll probably release him at some point you know yeah they just sort of like work myself up into a frenzy units and I'm saying in first person it's like I am you know I'm right where I'm supposed to be you know I had to live my whole life to get right here the the past is is not a real thing that exists only in my head and it and it really has no bearing on me right now what's moving my life forward is my mood and my vibration in this moment and that's it and I'm here and I'm supposed to be here and I'm a good person and I'm happy and I'm loving you know these sort of things and it go and sometimes I'm like yelling so excited you notice it's cool it's beautiful when I think of you and I kind of look at how you live your life and what you do you're an artist who who whose work extends beyond just music like I feel like your canvas or your template is your life and the way that you share it like there's the songs and there's the concerts and the performances but the open way in which you share your life experience is like a larger you know it's like expanding the aperture on on what your artistic expression is with this canvas of your life and how you're and how you're living it I just want to say thank you because these are these are things that matter to me and I look at that the same way like my I do feel like it's not just my music is my life my Gandhi said okay you got a story your guy went up to him on a train once and he goes can I have a quote he was a writer kind of quote for my newspaper gave a message and he wrote down my life is my message hmm it's like all my all my decisions in this creation my whole life that is my big piece of art like and I'm adding a stroke or taking a stroke away every day so I just want to thank you it's it's cool for me to be seeing the way I see myself so I I just want thank you for that you're welcome I mean you you have such a charming beautiful like childlike nature to yourself you know what I mean it's like easy to be with you and I can't help but compare that to the life of your friend Avicii I did I wash his documentary the other day and was very moved by by it and and there's plenty of have you seen it have you watched no I don't know you didn't want to watch it I don't know if I can yeah but I think what what I took away from it is somebody who extremely gifted and also you know like just kind of an introverted beautiful giving dude you know who just had this facility for music that was unbelievable and what honey was yeah and and I'm not like steeped in DJ culture like I don't know that much about it but you can't I don't think you really can know how good he was unless you worked when I'm like I did because it Tennessee and I'm sure some of these guys do they go up there and they hit play or whatever but he what it his genius was in the studio he's right in these songs you know and he's making all the music on his computer right and his sense of melody I mean the Swedes are known for their what so my friend made fun of me because I did a 23andme and I have like point one percent Scandinavian they think oh there's where your hits are but his melodies were just ridiculous the melodies of his drops and then he would write the melodies of the songs too and he was annoying in the studio cuz he every little note I had to be exactly right he's changing it complete perfectionist yes and they have all these people like Wyclef Jean and Chris Martin and all these people are like oh my god this you have no idea how talented this guy is like so supremely talented it's all in his head he's got it perfect in his mind and the process is just bringing that to life and trying to get other people to understand what yeah I do Express but in that journey you know his his like his arc to superstardom was so rapid and he was suddenly surrounded by this infrastructure of people that there was this whole machine behind what he does and he was powerless to get it to stop and throughout the movie he's like I have so much anxiety I got a stop we got a can't like warning sign warning sign warning sign warning sign and still it was so difficult for him to extricate himself from that and I think most people would think about scenario and say well he should have decide better around him or why couldn't he just say no and take a break and the truth is it's more complicated than that it's these weren't bad people that were surrounding him and nobody when their job yeah they're doing their job and they're not telling him look you can't cancel they're just saying well if you do this is gonna happen it was very realistic portrait of what it must be like to be caught caught in the middle you know in that situation and he did take breaks and the movie kind of concludes with him on this island and you think it's going to be all good because he is he finally finished all the shows I'm not going to tour anymore and you think he's going to find the peace that he's looking for and yet the depression or whatever you know kind of mental disposition that he was harboring he still couldn't overcome and I think it's informative for anybody but especially someone like yourself who's been in that situation been out of it is back in it you know what do you take away as somebody who was his friend and who collaborated with him and knew him quite well like what do you take away from how he lived his life and how does that inform how you make decisions the first thing I take away is actually not from his life from his death and I don't think he's particular to his death but anytime someone close to us goes the first thing it does is reminds us we're next we're gonna go too and people don't like to think about this one of the reasons is painful and so this his death reframed my life in that I the time is now you know the we all got a list of things that we want to do when we're done doing what we have to do you can't wait you know it's like my dad is dead now he can't do any more tim is dead now now Mac is dead now too I know one day I will be dead as well before that day I need to live my life I can't wait till tomorrow or next week this is it and I have one of those infrastructures as well you know around me and it's set up to maximize profits so it's like you have a song okay you need a tour as much as you can sell as many songs as we can and there's no one on the team there's no like palliative member of the team right going let's do X amount less shows to to make sure mike is good and yeah that's my job so um I think one of the reasons Jeff connected us was you know part tim's passing is one of the big reasons i'm walking across america this coming year is you know this was someone wanted to outdo any i got it that's the first thing I thought may I do that walk I could do that walk before it's too late will you wait for is your life so now I gotta have some hard conversations I caught I had to meet with my band say hey guys we need touring this year so you got a whole tour cuz you have an album coming out in like a week yeah I'm crying week so I'm supposed to do the tour options to do all the late-night TV oh so they're on a book tour right but that's that's protocol it's the way it goes yeah yeah hard talk with my manager hey man I'm actually gonna make zero dollars next year which means you're gonna make zero dollars how'd that go it's a tough conversation for him you know at first now I call a day later I go where we out with this man cuz I are you upset with me he goes look man I know you're making a life decision not a career decision and I support you so II got my back you know at the end of the day but yeah it's hard it's hard cuz are all these people are are reminding you exactly like you said but but you can miss this opportunity what if what if we're Coachella wants to book you you know oh no I gotta do I gotta do this man this is it I wrote the other day it's a lot to unpack you know um it's a lot to unpack I can't put my life on one track you know people say I'm giving up a year of my life to do the walk I say I'm taking one back that's how I feel it's my life it's my life okay I can't I can't do what everyone else thinks I'm supposed to do whatever - yes your life if you're not gonna take control of your life worth what where you're at right now then somebody else will and you like you said you've got an infrastructure that would be more than happy to take take the reins on that correct you know and it's it's so it's got to be even harder for you to put the brakes on and say no I'm gonna do this other thing so we should just say for people that are listening or watching March first you're gonna walk across America yeah it's gonna take you like the better part of a year to do it maybe a year who knows yeah where does this like why this like what is this about man we are we are that that list the same way a song pops in my head I know I got it right it alright I'm this pop my head no I got to do got to do it just it's instinctual I know I I know I want to do it I know you know I don't know why I want to alright I'm not making that call I'm not I'm not deciding what's calling to me I'm just I'm just listening and is the idea to kind of create a community experience out of doing this sharing it yeah having people join you they play music along the way yeah it's like I ain't a nyan I know what's gonna happen if I you know sit in the studio make a almond tour I don't know what's gonna happen I'm walking across Arizona and 100 degree weather yeah but you're gonna have so many people coming out to walk with you yeah well I can't wait you know and I just got to a place where like I said Tim Pass and I just sort of tired of listening to all these great podcasts that you and P and others do and reading these books about all these great individuals and in and not doing those things myself I want to like it's all that I'm marketing to myself like I want to be the person that I think is awesome like if I was not me and I heard my music I would think is awesome obviously I'm biased but if I if I was if I was not me and I was looking at Mike Posner and he was doing his career and then he said you know what I'll walk across America like me personally I would think that guy is freaking amazing I'm trying to make myself someone I'll be proud of you know and then that target moves because I become that person you know next year I'll be that guy that I'm like dreaming of so it's it's really cool I have another like oh I said um I don't know what I'll do what it's done when it's done hopefully I touch a life maybe you could be one I'm not walking to find I'm not walking to show people who I am I'm walking to find out who I'll become yeah and and as somebody who's whose life is your art you have to live that life in order to have something to say and to express it's I'm like there's no way I'm gonna do this thing and not learn oh no way not learn acquiesced is the the unknown like the absolute question mark of like what's gonna happen because stuff will happen yeah gonna be this crazy adventure yeah I've just had some like emails of people who have done this and they go say things like nothing will be the same after this or they'll say things like like at some point on this journey you will come to face with the deepest depths of your soul but now they go but don't worry about that yet you know it's like you know what whether it's that or even 1% of that I'm gonna I'm gonna learn more I'll have more on my palate than I do now a year from now of course I'm I'm not retiring you know for music at all it's like I'm even more committed to going out there diving back into life and bringing that back to my music I feel the deeper the human the deeper the songs and on on the surface this may look like me like attempting to drop out or escape from the world it's actually the opposite I feel like when I'm sitting like in a nice house and I get on the tour bus and everyone on the tour bus works for me I feel like that's a departure from reality that's not real life I want to die I think I want to walk through all the smallest towns in Indiana and listen to people and listen in the meantime while I'm walking to all the greatest albums ever made that I haven't gotten to yet and come back and and put all that into my music well I know it's right because you just literally came alive talking about this you know I think and the irony is that is that this is probably gonna be the best marketing tool for the album by like like you said like you know like hey you do Fallon you do this you go on this late-night show you then you do this is the tour that you do you're doing something completely different but I think that's interesting and I think people are going to be interested in following that journey I think it's just gonna create a groundswell of awareness all right what you do it could not tell maybe not who cares the point is like it doesn't matter exactly you know and I you know won't be honest - there is some part of me that has thought about that and hopes that happens like yeah like this will be my biggest tour of all time and screw you label look I did it my way and now I'm a big star what is the label actually having guy had a harder conversation than your manager yeah I think he had to tell them so I haven't gotten any calls yeah so March 1 but you're starting you're starting on the East Coast right do you have the route mapped out I was I will in the next few days all right and so because this won't go up for a little bit but yeah so right now I'm looking probably in New Jersey I've been looking at it's not decided so if anyone one wants to join or follow along they can follow me on social on Instagram that's really where I am I don't you really do Twitter um but I'm looking at Asbury Park I'm a Springsteen fan so I think it'd be cool to go you gotta start with your feet in the ocean yes exactly well my freakin coal plant put my whole body I love that hold water me neither cold water yeah I love cold water I get in there I was it have a house in northern Michigan ha ha he was up there where another Michigan well I would get tweet details like a little secret like a tiny tide don't want it to like blow up knocking on your door but it's an hour away from Traverse City uh-huh yeah yeah I was just up there in December and I got in the water and it was real cold but I loved it it's like it's like 20 coffees to me yeah yeah man so that'll that'll be cool and I my my anyone is sort of invited to join you know with some caveats you know I'm gonna be walking like 20 miles a day as I ramp up into this are you gonna do it with a backpack or no like how are you gonna know handle a magic using this probably in the most pretentious way and that I'll have an RV that goes ahead of me got a one-person with me that allows me to do a couple of things one allows me to go faster ranks I'm not carrying as much stuff to I can bring more stuff like a guitar and a keyboard uh-huh whereas if I'm like pushing a cart most people don't do a backpack um some people start with the back because it's very romantic but most people end up pushing a cart because it's more practical so yeah I just be able to take more stuff and play music and have like my mom can come out for a day type what type I think I do plan on doing like at least two weeks of this thing with the cart like I went up there so we'll see so in prompt I know - your oh yeah oh yeah yeah tons oh yes your advice - about like what Karen blister prevention man yeah cuz with things like this it's the tiny things it's the details that can derail you if you have the wrong pair of socks or right you know your shoes get wet and then you get a big blister and then you can't walk we can talk more about that all these but yeah yeah you don't want to make sure taking care of that but you know if you have an RV full of stuff you're gonna be alright you know I think the thing is you're gonna be excited in the beginning and you're gonna want to like walk a little bit further then you probably should each day and so did err on the side of less is more until you acclimate and get used to it yeah great advice yeah and then you'll kind of it you'll build into it over time but I'm excited for you man me too gonna be cool I could just see you like you're coming up on some little town and there's like a little theater that no one ever uses and you're like hey man could we use that tonight you know and just shout out on Instagram yes if people show up or whatever and yes way and we could to know some people we call those ninja shows and that was invented by a woman named Amanda Palmer do you know man of course unbelievable human and thinker and artist and excuse me and she made up this concept of the ninja show which is when her shows would sell out another good problem to have she would feel bad for people that couldn't get tickets so before her show she would tweet hey I'm gonna be at this corner with my ukulele at seven o'clock come and I'm gonna play uh-huh and she just goes show up and play and I heard I read her book me I was like I gotta do that this is so of course I've done probably 40 of those then I've played at like the Grand Canyon where like five people have shown up and I've played at the school like University of Dayton where I tweeted Hammond beer in like an hour right in like two thousand people show oh it's so cool and it's really fun because most shows are set up to keep you as separate from the audience as possible you think about the the stage itself puts you higher there's usually a barricade with security in between the stage and the barricade and even the word fans short for fanatic sort of like stay away from those yeah sort of um yeah it um categorize danger as dangerous yeah and that's how I thought about my audience until I did started doing ninja shows because I was I play my guitar and then I meet him after and it just people like you and me like we both have artists that we love and we listen to it like for whatever reason i'm i'm that artist for them which is a so cool and I know what that's like because I have artists like that you know one of them's Calle what is okay and music is about connection correct and yeah I just stopped thinking about these you know that saying like I never want to be in a club that I was allowed into it's sort of like that where there was earlier in my life more but it's the underlying sense of unworthiness like there must be something wrong with you if you like me this much but no there's nothing wrong with me or them you know this is they connect my music yeah so that was it was really cool doing those shows and I'm excited about doing tons more of them are you gonna dot do you should document you're gonna have like a documentary career with you because this idea of going across America and connecting with this country I think it'd be made our fall i I and honestly have enough on my plate right now logistically figuring out how me and one person with me are gonna do this thing it's only one other person it will be with me and Noelle cycle won't be the same person the whole way but my plan is sort of announced this thing and if anyone wants to shoot me they're welcome to but I don't really want to be like executive producer you know I don't want to kick you out of being present for the yes which is the whole point and I don't want to be managing a lot of people yeah I want to walk if you you're friends with Jay Jenkins probably aren't you no but I want to be oh really yeah I can't believe you don't know him I would have thought you guys I know ovens right yeah but his experience from that bike ride you should you should definitely connect I have a ready book either I heard it's incredible it's great I heard his writing is he's a beautiful writer he's great right yeah you should definitely read that book I'm amazed that you guys aren't connected I'm happy to connect you please yeah very he'll help me a lot cool so let's wrap this up if we could close it down with a few words of wisdom for somebody who's out there who aspires to give voice to their creative Muse perhaps somebody who's a little frustrated or stymied doesn't know how to take that first step yeah you know what is what are some inspiration or some tools that you use that have been helpful in bringing bringing truth to your expression being an artist is a really simple job and this goes for any medium writer painter musician your jaw is to create the art that you want to be in the world the art that you want to exist and how do you define art and artists anyone doing some creative you know I think no but yeah you're asking about someone who's looking for their muse and what gets in the way of the muse is when we start worrying about what other people will think even one extra person is - money if I think about what rich will he like this song it will mess my process up all I can do is create the stuff that I want to be created the stuff I want to exist it's a beautiful job you get to tailor make things for you beautiful things that are that are made to your exact preferences and no one else can do it except you and so it's just very simple that coming back to that has helped me every album hmm you know and I think I heard it I don't I didn't make that up I heard it from Maria Pope Eva from brain pink like frame packings I'll just just make what you want to be made that's it you know so we could we could zoom out just do what you want to be done your life that's it is your life is your creation go get it no one else can do it for you if you don't do that thing it just won't happen you know if you don't write that song that song won't get written it no one else could do it for you it sounds so simple it is simple it is simple it's easy to lose track of that but I think it is pretty simple to come back to that yeah I've told B I've told big name artists that they're in the throes of an album and they're confused they have too many songs she's like what do you like what are you trying I just tell them that and they go it's like they took a took a dip in the cold lake and I and it's for myself - yeah being honest with yourself about who you are what it is that you want to say I think it requires a level of like self integration self understanding that comes with the meditation and all these other practices that you've been doing they don't hurt you're sure well uh you're beautiful man mike posner thank you you are two men and I didn't even get to as you any question no it's not about me it's about you today I love everything that you are and - and I wish you only the best most incredible experience on this walk thanks I see you at the end with all the I don't know man I think I might come I might have to come and join you fleu sorry since we're invited it's uh it sounds amazing you are super inviting and your beautiful soul and I appreciate your art your artistry and the spirit with which you share your your gift because you are a gifted man thank you and the way in which you're so you're so free with this gift with humanity I think is is something really special so thanks for coming and sharing I appreciate that what else we have to do I don't know that's it man life is short brother Han cool so if people want to connect with you just you're easy to find on the internet I was like oh I thought Mike posed marry POS and like Nancy er Spotify Instagram your website where my composing they're dying huh you're gonna have the map there right I'll have the map and I would say like if people really want to join up probably the best place is Instagram I think I'll be most sort of active and perhaps it will pull my website probably pull from there um and also yeah it'd be ready if we really want to walk to you know like if you can't walk a mile don't come try walk with me you know this is for real this is real this is for real and did some other things out I told I have in my sight you know I said I'm not this isn't like a catered event either you know it's like if you want to come from morning the day you gotta figure that out on your own right you're you carry your burden on another now your food or whatever and are all safe you want to walk with me um no drugs or alcohol you know we rollin into as guests into tiny towns and I got no interest in sort of babysitting drunk people or high people clean living clean living right do this rich reimagining the Rockstar life there you go bro well you're gonna have to come back when the walk is done and tell me about it that would be so cool man cool maybe like the next day yeah a straight Kier dude today she is calling forget it but if I get here later on the ways for sure man - that's right pass right by here I think I'll be crying that's good man people have cried on this show all right dude he's much loved peace [Music]

Channel: Rich Roll

Views: 73,902

Keywords: a real good kid, art, artist, athlete, avicii, celebrity, cooler than me, creativity, depression, diet, fame, fitness, grief, health, hiphop, honesty, i took a pill in ibiza, inspiration, IN-Q, Jay-Z, Justin Bieber, Kanye West, loss, Maroon 5, meditation, mike posner, mindfulness, motivation, music, nutrition, personal growth, pop music, rap music, rich roll, self-care, self-help, self-improvement, Snoop Dogg, songwriting, spirituality, stuck in the middle, vegan, walk across amercia, walk, welness

Id: _7Twk0ZPy_o

Length: 106min 45sec (6405 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 26 2019