Michelle Obama talks parenting, partnership and turning your rage into change | NPR

well former First Lady Michelle Obama thank you for being here to talk with us about your new book thanks for having me the book is called the light we carry overcoming in uncertain times and I have to tell you I read becoming and this is a really different book becoming was obviously this very intimate peeling back the layers of your personal story your family story that I think so many people have wanted to know for so long and but this book is it's more practical it's like a guidebook almost yeah I call it a tool kit I mean I think I'm like everybody over the last few years we have been struggling um you know economic uncertainty a pandemic isolation uh Injustice it's kind of left us all feeling out of sorts and so I get a lot of questions from people it's like how do I cope and given my motto when they go low we go high a lot of people these days have been struggling to figure out how to stay high when it feels like the world is in a low place and so this book is my best attempt at offering people at least an a look into my toolbox the practices and habits the people who keep me balanced and hopefully it'll start a conversation because I think that that's a lot of what we're feeling we've been locked away from one another and we're feeling disconnected and we need to get back together and uncover ourselves with each other and figure out how do we adapt in an inevitably uncertain world one of the things that you said in this book is that when you released becoming several years ago it was like a breath of fresh air after the time that your family spent in the white house so I'm curious to you as you're about to set off on your book tour as you're bringing this book into the world if that was a big breath if that was a release what does this process feel like ah you know whenever you are putting yourself out into the public I am no different it is frightening yeah you know I mean I I talk about in this book how even though becoming was a breath of fresh air There's Something about making yourself vulnerable in the world we may make it look easy but we still go through that doubting process did I share too much um how will people receive the truth that I have to offer um so you know I'm in that same place with uh with this book My Hope Is that people will find something useful in it and I have been I've spent my time alone with this book uh talking with myself and with the few people that I've let look at it now I'm sharing these thoughts do they make sense do they connect with people do they resonate I don't know so that there is still a fear a doubt a vulnerability that goes into any project that I take on um so I'm feeling a little nervous you know what strikes me when I'm reading the book is you get vulnerable not just about yourself but you talk about your marriage we learn about the fact that your daughters are now dating were you you talk about this idea of being comfortably afraid of really being able to harness that fear were you how did you think about the things that you shared with all of us with your readers about your family's lives you know I I always have to strike a balance of how much uh sharing will help people and how do I make sure that I'm protecting my family's privacy um but I think about my writing like I think about everything else I learn from stories um I I never want to produce anything that feels a didactic finger-pointing all I have is my own authentic truth um so I I feel like if I'm coming from that place and I've gotten the permission of my family members then I feel like a okay there's a lesson here so when I talk about my relationship with my husband it's because I know that there are a lot of young people who are trying to figure out how do you what is a marriage how do you shape a relationship I am fascinated by how little we talk to young people young adults about what it actually means to partner with somebody and what those compromises look like and you know pushing them to answer questions for themselves of what are you trying to get out of this relationship with this other person have you thought it through are you seeking a wedding or do you want a relationship those are two very different things so in the chapter that's called partnering well again I share my journey with my husband the things that stuck out for me what I was trying to find in another person and how that worked out over the the course of 30 years we have we are now celebrating our 30th anniversary with the hopes that you know it will create a conversation among the next generation of people trying to start to build their lives what do you look for in a partner what do you have to bring to a relationship yourself in order to make it whole and healthy I got something that so many people are curious about people I think and you've written about this they've idealized your marriage they sit there and look at it but you have always been very clear out and very honest that marriage makes work it takes daily work and that it is not always glamorous and you have had some very unique strains but there's also the strains that any of us who are in a relationship or married face whether it be whose career goes first or who takes on the child care labor how do you think about is there one piece of advice that you would give for people who are thinking about how you put in that work for a partnership that's lasted that yeah it's not really one piece of advice it's to me it's a philosophy it's an Outlook um you know in in this age of we want everything now we want everything quick we you know when life is everything but that um marriage is we have to understand that marriage is never 50 50. um and you know you sort of wonder how that idea kind of got out there um I have found that if you stick with it you know over the course of your entire relationship you may have 50 50 over time but if I look over my marriage if I were to judge it in year five or year 10 there was never 50 50. somebody was always giving way more someone always needed a different kind of thing you have to evolve with it and so yeah yeah there were times when I felt like I was 70 percent in and he was doing 30 percent um but I think that and and I've had to compromise uh as he has I've had to because of the choices that I made in the terms of how I wanted our family to look I had to take my foot off of my career gas pedal uh never putting on the break but slowing up a little bit um those are the natural compromises that are required and I feel bad when I see young people giving up on their relationships because there's there are periods of hard there are periods of discomfort um as I have told young people who ask me about marriage I was like you have to be prepared to have long stretches of discomfort and long I mean it could last for years and don't put kids into the equation because that's just another layer of complication you love them to death but they will shake take your marriage up and turn you both upside down so I think it's important for us to be honest in those conversations not to glamorize what a partnership feels like because then young people quit too soon they quit before they've really you know played out the full scenario so one of the things that I loved that was a through line that ran throughout this book is the the revolving relationships between parents and children and particularly mothers and daughters and you wrote a lot about your relationship with your mom who we all know played a pivotal role with living with your family during your years in the white house I'm curious what has that been like for me as your relationship has evolved into being both adults now having adult children what does that look like for me I think it's a beautiful Journey you know um one of the things I share some of the you know sort of uh unique brand of wisdom that my my parents brought to their parenting I share that in the book but something I admired about my mother is that you know she had a clear philosophy about parenting which is unusual for somebody of her generation there weren't all the what to expect books and the Doctor Who do you do books on how to parent but there were just some a common sense way that approach that she brought to Parenting but she always talked about she said I'm I'm not raising children I'm raising adults um and so I always had an interestingly open and honest conversation with my parents they encouraged us to talk at an early age to find our voices she made sure we felt heard she made sure that she took our concerns and issues seriously we were never treated as kids should be seen and not heard so when you have that Foundation you know your relationship is always I feel at least with my mother and I've tried to do that with my daughters has been on a steady course of growth but you still have to be ready for your your kids to evolve you know who they are at four and seven is not what and what they need from you is very different from what they need from you as teenagers and then again as young women but if you've laid a foundation of trust and honesty every stage I found is is wonderful it's full it's exciting I don't miss any stage I I loved every stage of parenting my girls but I wouldn't go back to any no of the stages I don't long for the time when they were babies I love that time breastfeeding when you you know you could sit and hold them and look at them forever but now that they're young women you know and now I'm less of a day-to-day manager and more of an advisor there's a there's a freedom to enjoy them as individuals to watch them grow and I think that's been the case for me and my mom as well with your girls though has that been comfortable for you the idea of stepping back from that manager role and letting them lead letting them be the people who make you and your husband as you say weak martinis when you come and visit their apartment that I couldn't stop laughing when I read that you know well that's that it is a hard thing to do to let your kids be um you know in this era of helicopter parenting you know where I think parents are very maybe overly involved in their kids lives um I was raised to be handed my competence early you know my mother raised her as I write in the book she says her job is to put herself out of a job early so she started at a very early age requiring us to be independent you know as early as kindergarten she gave us alarm clocks because she knew that we were capable of getting ourselves up she wanted us to feel the power of our competence so from five years old I was setting an alarm soon thereafter I was walking to school by myself and what that does for a kid when your parent trusts you you know it it it encourages you it tells you that if my mom thinks I can do this then I must be capable and I've tried to instill that same kind of Stand by the gate and watch your kids fly be there for them when they come back let them know that you will be their Advocate but don't step in and try to live their lives for them and so when I see my kids flourishing in that way when I see them owning all their choices and succeeding and failing on their own terms and growing from that process it is one of the most satisfying experiences it is frightening it is frightening to watch your children walk into a brick wall but that's what growth is and you know and too many parents try to stop that process but that's the quickest way for them to learn to learn from owning their mistakes and owning their victories at the same time but you got to get adjusted I mean I talk about how you know when you're letting your kids go you're letting your heart out there in the world that Barack and I kind of do this kind of crazy parent text check-in you know like writing things that are keeping us up at night Barack one one day sent them a text on earthquake preparedness because they now live in LA and it's that's the kind of thing you do as a parent you think uh oh there are earthquakes have I warned them are they prepared so in the middle of the night he's sending some article on a 10-step plan that includes you know getting earthquake training and stocking up on water and the response from one of my daughters was okay which of these things do you think we should do because it's a lot right but that's our own anxiety playing itself out um you know what did I miss you know what more can I feed into you to make sure that you're safe and sound and secure but the truth of the matter is that we we don't control that and as a parent that's a hard thing to come to grips with as your child is you is your child grows up and is out there in that big bad world is that you can prepare and love them all all that you can and you still don't have control there are no guarantees that their life is going to work out and something bad may happen that is the hardest thing about parenting is living with that truth but the alternative is to stop them from growing and that in my view would be the sad outcome if my kids were sitting safe in my basement or in their rooms at home uh with me feeling comforted in the fact that I knew what they were doing and where they were but not owning their own lives I think that would be the sadder outcome so I have to remind myself of that you know when I get the urge to step in uh but that's why I tell people parenting is hard it isn't just hard because it's hard it's hard because it's emotionally you are in your most vulnerable space um now I could go on and on but I do write about a lot of that in the book one of the other things you touch on in the book is you are very open and candid about acknowledging the fact that you have support and you have help and you have had help throughout your life in raising your children and you point find out that any High earning successful women who report to have it all and do it all they've got help so I want to ask you what disservice do we do to people particularly women and caregivers when we don't all acknowledge and aren't as transparent about the fact that we have help especially given that we are coming out of a two to three year period that is exposed so much strain in our caregiving infrastructure in this country well that's the you know the the Trope that we wear as women that we're supposed to be able to do it all um you know and I don't know where that came from you know when I look back on the women in my life you know it was a real necessity you know the the matriarchs of our household did do it all as black women with men whose opportunities were limited because of Jim Crow and segregation you know where a black man was more of a threat so a black woman could you know have a more consistency in their earning potential but still had to hold down the traditional wife and mother role of cooking and child rearing you know if I look back over my personal history I can see where you know that's what was modeled to us that the mothers in our lives did everything you know they mother they worked they took care of the home so we're emulating that particularly as women of color you know that's that's a sign of strength you know so we don't ask for help we are not conditioned to think that that that's not a weakness um so yes I think it's a disservice when those of us who are out here modeling it aren't being real clear about the fact that we are not meant to do this life alone we are not meant I believe we were not meant to parent alone you know the whole concept of a nuclear family you know just me my husband if you're lucky and the kid kids and this is our unit and we live independently that's a fairly new phenomenon to our generation you know for uh decades people have lived in extended family units you know I wrote about that into coming I grew up in a community surrounded by family members I had maternal grandparents around the corner paternal grandparents uh you know down the street we lived above the home of a great aunt we saw each other regularly our families cousins together almost every weekend celebrating birthday parties and and I can't think of a time where I had to have a babysitter because there was just always somebody that was chipping in somebody would pop over you'd go over somebody else's house so now here we sit in our generation many of us have moved away from our family units our communities of support and we're off in some city with a big job still trying to emulate what our our grandparents and grandmothers and fathers did that doesn't work you know you need if you're working outside of the home because we all are working inside of the home you know there is no um shame in in getting support your your kids will value it they will value you being less stressful now the guilty part of that piece if you're a woman who has the resources is that we all know women who don't have that choice so sometimes we hide it because it's like dag how am I talking about a nanny and this and that when I know that there are women my peers my my cousins my who don't have that support they're doing just as much as I'm doing but they can't afford they don't have access to affordable child care they couldn't think of having a nanny you know they don't have flexibility in their work schedule so part of it is that there's a kind of survivor's remorse about what you're able to do but I think we still have to talk about the fact that family units have to be based on a big community of support there is um there is uh nothing particularly Courageous about doing life alone you know um but you know if we if if those of us who are doing it aren't being honest about how hard that is and what it takes to actually get it right then we're mirroring the wrong things for the generation to come and I don't want to do that to my girls you know yeah one of the things that you walk through in the book and you talk about a number of the ways in which your life and the journey that your family has been on has been incredibly exceptional but you also talk about some incredibly relatable experiences such as the isolation of being the only whether it is the only woman of color the only black person in the room of being the only person who didn't come for money at a college and I wonder now all these years later in the journey that you have been on do you still feel that way sometimes and how do you deal with it yeah honestly of course as Michelle Obama you know I feel it less acutely um but that's fairly recent you know I mean when we were in the white house we were the the first and the only at many tables of power um watching people adjust to that um that was very reminiscent of the experiences that I had you know going to college and practicing in a corporate law firm and sitting around board uh seats and on and on and on um but what I found is over time and I write about this is that you know we can't change that reality um we are still sadly breaking barriers right I mean it is unfortunate that uh the percentages of students of color on college campuses is remaining relatively sadly stagnant the same is true and if you look at corporate law the numbers of Associates and partners in large firms has not really significantly increased um so we still are struggling to make progress so in the meantime we're dealing with the reality of the fact that yeah we're still trying to fill those seats so how do we get through in the meantime um because when you're an only there's uh as I describe it there's a a feeling of walking around trying to navigate a a town or a city with a road map that doesn't fit you know you're playing a game with someone else's rules um you feel isolated and disconnected sometimes outside of your own body and what happens when that occurs is that you start feeling self-conscious you spend more time thinking about your loneliness you're carrying that burden rather than focusing on the task at hand and that is that makes overcoming all that just even more difficult um what I had to learn to do was to first get out of my own head not easy though it's not it is not an easy thing to do and it takes practice but part of what this book is reminding us is that there are no Miracle answers to these things overcoming imposter syndrome feeling like you belong right um there isn't a this is these are the three steps you take to feeling seen right doesn't happen that way for me I have practiced trying to get out of my head for 58 years now it is a daily reminder that I have to uh take the mask that I am trying to hold up on my face take it down so that I can see what I'm doing and by mask I mean stop trying to stop pretending to be something that I'm not trying to fit in and leave behind the parts of me that make me real and authentic stop worrying about how I wear my hair and what somebody is going to think about it you know stop thinking about how I conjugate my verbs or what stories I tell about myself to make me fit into somebody else's world that gets in we get in our way with that but it takes practice and I open the book by urging young people to read it to understand that patience is an important tool in in developing your own set of tools what I am able to do now the messages that I tell myself now at 58 are very different than what I needed to say to myself at 20. but I know now have a lifetime of understanding that I have been practicing through being the only of quieting my doubtful mind and then speaking up and using my experiences as the source code as I say to the power that I actually have and bring you know it doesn't happen overnight but we have to keep telling ourselves I am going to show up in the world as my authentic self and that is good enough that's the work that we have to do I wish there were shortcuts um but it is what it is you mentioned patience and that is something that I've been wanting to ask you about you mentioned earlier the call to action that many of us know you for when they go low we go high and in a past life before I had this job I was a political correspondent and I spent a lot of time traveling this country and talking to young people in particular and what I heard a lot and I'm sure you hear this too from the people who write you letters or come to events that you hold is the fact that they want to believe in a world of going high but they feel a sense of urgency oftentimes they express that they feel a sense of Rage given all of the hurt and harm and marginalization the Insurrection attacks on lgbtq rights anti-Semitism I could the list the laundry list could go on how does going high square with the urgency that so many people feel especially young people feel In This Moment well that's the interesting thing because young people interpret some young people interpret going high as being complacent you know going going high doesn't mean sitting on the side of the road and watching you know Injustice go by going high is about having a strategy a real concrete strategy for change it's taking the rage and turning it into reason so that you can actually be heard and move toward change so when I think about going high I'm usually thinking at a time when I'm feeling the rage and I feel the need to react I I've learned to ask myself am I indulging my rage is what I'm about to do or say gonna make me feel good in the short term but have no impact over the long term right because the goal is the impact ultimately you know um that's what Barack and I had to do every day in the White House you know I used to play this game with my communication staff before an interview or something where we would sort of walk through the questions and there'd be some question that would be what I call a knucklehead question you know and I'd I'd practice my true response right my I shouldn't say true my gut response because sometimes just playing it out loud helps to get it out but then when you put your your first gut reaction out there for the world to see in here and then you look at it for a minute and you go ah well that's not even how I really feel you know um and what's going to be the outcome you know there's going to be half the country that won't even hear the rest of the the solution if I start there if I start with my rage and anger all I will do is play out my rage and anger but I won't be able to affect any change going high is about the ultimate goal of where are we trying to go and what's the best way to get there and over the course of history especially the history of civil rights there was the rage but there was always the plan you know the March on Washington was the cherry on top after Decades of legislative action and strategic sit-downs you know the March wasn't the it wasn't the beginning or the end and that's what we have to figure out what is the true beginning and where are we trying to get to there is room for rage in that you know there's there's and there's urgency in that the other thing I try to remind young people is that um it's easy to look at what your press predecessors have done and to say not enough why not why not faster why not better why not bigger and what I say is young people aren't wrong to feel that that's that's why folks need to get out of the way and pass on you know pass on the power to the Next Generation but what we can't lose sight of is that every generation in this movement toward whatever change they are they are laying the marker that they can at the time they are working within the confines with the doubts in their heads the the history that they come from we do ourselves no good by being mad because the folks aren't our team didn't do more people are doing what they can do with what they have and I can guarantee you that this generation of young people that are complaining about the lack of urgency will get to our age and their kids will look at them and say why'd you do more faster the nature of change it it is a slog it is a marathon and it will never feel like enough because until everything is perfect it will always be urgent but in the meantime what I urge young people to do is be be be rageful you you and own it but have a plan have a strategy that can work um know what it is be thoughtful about that approach and make sure that what you say is really what you mean and how you feel over the long term and not just today you know it strikes me as you write about how imperative it is that we should still go high that we have we're coming out of this period where all of us have faced so many challenges um tomorrow former president Trump is expected to announce that he's going to run for president yet again um and I just wonder you talk about this toolbox what goes through your head and what tools do you reach for when you think about something like that oh i i i and my husband helps me with this I I think about the context of the history of our country of our world and I realize that you know this is a moment this is a moment and we cannot let a moment turn us so upside down that we can't function you know um the the the Arc of change doesn't just go straight up it goes up and down and up and down and so in these moments I tell myself I ask myself and this is a chapter that I I call the power of small all right what can I do in this moment that I can uniquely control when I think something's about to happen that I cannot control right um voting is one of those things you know it doesn't feel like a lot you know it's a small action that happens on a Tuesday uh every couple of years would happen more if people voted more and focused on their local elections too um but that's one of those things you know if you if you don't like the guy that's running the power that we have in our democracy however small it is is that we each have the responsibility and the right to vote at least right now so let us exercise it you know so that we're we're not in a position to take it for granted and have those rights snatched away because let me tell you if we don't if we don't use them if we don't protect them fiercely even when the person who won isn't somebody that we agree with we will lose those rights we've seen it with uh abortion rights we've seen it we've experienced it I can't tell you how many times we got on the campaign Trail over the last eight years and said this election is important you know because the Supreme Court is at risk you know it matters who's on the Supreme Court Roe v Wade is you know is in jeopardy and watching election after election people not turning out you know um because they didn't like that guy they were mad about the fact why is he even running you know and it's not necessarily Trump but anybody right the governor's race the U.S attorney you know we sit out we don't we don't do the work because we're mad about who's in um we have this small power each of us to shape the direction of the country and if we don't use it you know I I mean I I you know I I never want to throw my hands up but I think what what are we going to do in this democracy if we quit on it for my First Lady Michelle Obama thank you so much for spending some time with us today thank you it's been a real pleasure thanks so much

Channel: NPR

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Keywords: michelle obama npr, npr michelle obama, michelle obama interview npr, michelle obama podcast, michelle obama on marriage podcast, michelle obama parenting, light we carry, the light we carry, npr podcast, michelle obama marriage is never 50/50, michelle obama interview, michelle obama interview 2022, michelle obama the light we carry, the light we carry michelle obama, michelle obama on marriage, michelle obama marriage, michelle obama, First lady michelle obama

Id: H_-iU6AW1c0

Length: 34min 19sec (2059 seconds)

Published: Tue Nov 15 2022