Meet The Press Broadcast (Full) - May 2nd, 2021 | Meet The Press | NBC News

[Music] this sunday the return of big government we have to prove democracy still works that our government still works and we can deliver for our people president biden proposing a huge increase in government spending american jobs finally the biggest increase in non-defense research and development on record six trillion dollars on social spending infrastructure climate change health care and more these are investments we made together as one country and investments that only the government was in a position to make republicans push back calling mr biden divisive and fiscally irresponsible he could have walked up and said i want all of you to send every bit of your money and freedom to washington how much will congress approve and how would we pay for it my guest this morning treasury secretary jenny senator bernie sanders of vermont and senator rob portman of ohio plus amid anger over policing it was a kill shot to the back of the head could this comment from senator tim scott america is not a racist country complicate efforts at police reform also states of play the winners the losers and the big unanswered questions after the new census numbers come in joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news capitol hill correspondent casey hunt yamiche alcindor white house correspondent for the pbs newshour former democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri and lonnie chen a fellow at stanford university's hoover institution welcome to sunday it's meet the press from nbc news in washington the longest running show in television history this is meet the press with chuck todd and a good sunday morning in his 1981 inaugural address president ronald reagan captured the nation's growing frustration with big government government is not the solution to our problem government is the problem 15 years later in 1996 a democratic president bill clinton admitted the defeat of activist government the era of big government is over then this past wednesday in his speech to congress president joe biden tried to put a stake in both of those ideas declaring that the era of big government being over is now over in the process mr biden also made clear that the idea that he intends to be a transitional president well that's also over too he intends to be a transformational one the president's goals are ambitious far-reaching and yes expensive will voters care about the scope of mr biden's plans well here's one clue 55 percent of adults in our new nbc news poll say the government should do more to solve our problems versus 41 percent who say the government is doing too much how about will voters care about the price tag possibly but president trump and the republicans may have made it a bit easier for mr biden by spending big themselves cutting taxes for the wealthy and running up the deficit on their watch so mr biden is making a six trillion dollar bet that promoting popular programs will be popular and that he'll be rewarded for getting things done long before the actual bill comes due i don't have any inordinate faith in government but there's certain things only the government can do president biden making the case for the largest expansion of government programs in decades these are investments we made together as one country and investments that only the government was in a position to make it's a reimagining of the role of government in american life extending an argument made by barack obama but never fully implemented given his political constraints we have never been a people who place all of our faith in government to solve our problems we shouldn't want to but we don't think the government is the source of all our problems either it gained momentum during a democratic primary campaign that pushed the party to the left i get a little bit tired of democrats afraid of big ideas the 1.8 trillion dollar american families plan proposes universal pre-k two years of tuition-free community college and expanded paid family and medical leave it comes on top of a 2.2 trillion dollar infrastructure proposal and after a 1.9 trillion dollar coveted relief package to pay for some of these initiatives white house officials are proposing tax increases on corporations and the wealthiest americans the american family plan does four things and we pay for it all one without raising the deficit biden is betting americans are open to an activist government 82 percent of democrats 60 percent of independents and even a quarter of republicans say governments should do more to solve the country's problems it's the opening of what is likely to be a summer slugfest there is no such thing as a free lunch think about how much money he is spending he doesn't want to talk about how it's going to get paid for if i ever hear that joe biden's a moderator again i'm going to throw up republicans now concerned about deficits argued donald trump's 2017 tax cuts would pay for themselves i worry about deficits but you're not going to get out of this problem until you grow the economy i'm totally convinced this is a revenue neutral bill actually a revenue producer it wasn't and the deficit grew substantially now some senate democrats are already hinting at deficit spending hawaii's brian schatz telling axios i'm not a big pay for guy connecticut's chris murphy quote i don't know that it needs to be fully paid for and montana's john tester i think we should find a way to pay for half of it up front to get his plans through congress biden needs to get centrist democrats on board that's a lot i mean we're because millions of dollars we need to pay for we do and the president has to hold progressives who are defying the white house and pursuing a massive expansion of medicare after a health care overhaul was left out of biden's plans i just think it's the wrong approach we need to take on those lobbyists and big pharma companies that are so willing to pour millions into defeating any kind of reform and joining me now is the treasury secretary janet yellen secretary yellen welcome to meet the press thanks so much pleasure to be with you yeah let me start with what is on a lot of folks minds at least in in washington which is simply um how do you pay for it and so i know that you guys have a plan so put it in in layman's terms here secretary yellen how you believe the administration what you guys believe is the best way to pay for these plans well first of all we think the plans are extremely important and necessary to invest in our economy so that we can be competitive and have families and children succeed invest in infrastructure in r d and the the things that shore up middle class prosperity education child care and health care and we've proposed to pay for these two packages by um raising the tax rate on corporations um above its current level of 21 but keeping it under the level it was for decades at 35 percent and to close loopholes that incent american corporations to shift their income abroad to tax havens so right now corporate income tax amounts to only 7 percent of total federal tax revenue and corporate income has increased as a share of gdp and we're proposing changes to the corporate tax system that would close loopholes this comes also in the context of global negotiations to try to stop a decades-long race to the bottom among countries in competing for business by lowering their corporate tax rates and we feel that we'll be successful the president has pledged that yeah go ahead no family um earning under four hundred thousand dollars will pay a penny more in taxes and we've been assiduous in sticking to that pledge so the other part of paying for this comes from raising taxes back to the level they were at 39.6 39.6 before 2017 for families making over 400 000 and for the tiny group three-tenths of one percent of americans making more than a million dollars that they would be asked to pay on capital gains and dividends that same rate rather than the far lower rate it is now and president biden believes and i agree that workers shouldn't face higher taxes on their wage income than wealthy individuals do on their rewards from to capital well look i i i wanted you to lay that out there because i wanted folks to hear it because there's quite a few democratic senators that are now talking about the idea of maybe we don't need to raise all of these taxes and you just made a case for instance on infrastructure that you know these are investments um and that they're worthy of deficit spending uh this bill comes back to the president without these pay fors president's still going to sign it well i'm not going to speak for what the president will do in the negotiation but he has made clear that he believes that permanent increases in spending should be paid for and i agree i think we're in a good fiscal position interest rates are historically low they've been that way for a long time and it's likely they'll stay that way into the future but we do need fiscal space to be able to address emergencies like the one that we've been in with respect to the pandemic we don't want to use up all of that fiscal space and over the long run deficits need to be contained to keep our federal finances on a sustainable basis so i believe that we should pay for pay for these historic investments there will be a big return i expect productivity to rise there will be great returns from investing in research and development and enabling families to participate with paid leave and child care support in the workforce so i think it's true that a stronger economy will generate more tax revenues but i think the safest thing is to pay for them and we're doing it in a way that's fair i should also mention that an important way of paying for this is increasing tax compliance it's estimated that underpayment of taxes that are really due is costing us the federal government about seven trillion dollars over a decade and there's an important proposal here to increase compliance to fund the irs so that and this is a matter of fairness to uh increase and collect the tax revenue that's due under our tax code look there's some concerns that all of this spending is going to lead to inflation issues uh and i know right now the current inflation is arguably more of a supply chain issue right now than anything else but how do we avoid what happened in the 70s with inflation where basically a bunch of spending for 20 and 30 years got to us a point where we suddenly were in an inflation spiral why won't how is it that the same thing won't happen again over the next 20 years so uh the spending that's been proposed in the jobs plan and the family's plan it comes into effect um once the economy is back on track and the spending from the rescue plan that's uh coming into force and helping us get on track after that stimulus is spent it's spread out quite evenly over eight to ten years so the boost to demand is moderate and the federal reserve has the tools to address inflation should it arise we will monitor that very carefully we're proposing that the spending be paid for and i don't believe that inflation will be an issue but if it becomes an issue we have tools to address it these are historic investments that we need to make our economy productive and fair secretary yellen uh it's always a lot to get to and explain when it comes to monetary policy how we pay for things and all of this so i really appreciate you coming coming on and sharing your perspective with us thank you thank you chuck and joining me now is republican senator rob portman of ohio senator portman welcome back to meet the press um earlier this week thank you chuck and good to see you earlier this week you seem to lament um and and be a little bit uh i would say skeptical of the outreach that you're now receiving from the white house um you said you were hopeful and then after and covered relief you felt as if um it wasn't sincere um senator capito says that she feels as if her her exchanges so far with the white house are much different this time than they were over coveted relief would you concur with that yes i think it's going to be a better opportunity and frankly if the white house is willing to work with us this is a deal we can do infrastructure has always been bipartisan it's a different sort of a proposition than some of the spending that uh janet yellen just talked about secretary young talked about the six trillion dollars in new spending only about 20 percent of the jobs bill that the president has proposed goes to real infrastructure and that part of it can be paid for it can be paid for with user fees it can be paid for with some of the covered money that's already gone out because states would love to use it for infrastructure and of course it can be paid for in different ways as we have in the past like ppps uh public-private partnerships but also an infrastructure bank because these are long-term uh capital expenditures so it's it's very possible chuck that we get a deal here if they're willing to do it you know we'll see with covet you're right a bunch of us went to the white house made a proposal and uh the president indicated he wanted to negotiate but unfortunately the next morning uh they changed their mind and and chuck schumer announced that we were all going to do this by reconciliation which knocks republicans out of the game altogether so let's hope we don't have a repeat of that because i think we can come up with a a good bill that's bipartisan and one that actually will survive over time because it'll be more sustainable with republican and democrat support um look you just made it you made a very similar case about how hey this is this is capital expenditures most companies when they make capital expenditures they borrow money so is there a case to be made that maybe on the physical infrastructure that deficit spending is actually the way to go especially since the pay for here is going to be arguably the largest sticking point between the two sides i think i think the way to go is to depend on user fees as we always have and about 200 billion dollars will come in uh over the next five years through the highway trust fund alone but also through the government being able to borrow at lower rates and secretary owen didn't talk about this but the infrastructure bank and and the p3 i talked about earlier that's essentially using the government's ability to borrow at lower rates and over time to be able to pay for these projects so it's it's not deficit spending but but it is because it's a capital expenditure paid for in a different way and that's one reason we can get to this on the coveted side these states are getting lots of money they don't know what to do with it in many cases some are talking about sending it back some have already done that others would like to use it for infrastructure that's a great opportunity normally the ratio is 20 percent local 80 percent federal there are plenty of states including my own that would love to use it for roads and bridges and other infrastructure and be willing to pay a higher percentage maybe 50 50 some even 100 percent that delta the difference between the 20 and 50 or 100 certainly would be used to pay for infrastructure so there's lots of opportunities here chuck for us to get to yes i i would like to comment on what secretary owen said about the tax increases too if that's okay well i will i want to ask you though about about the issue of user fees because you have proposed i mean you're not the only republican that has but do you realize that the the head of the republican senate campaign committee is basically vowed to run um to take a gas tax if if that's what is raised and essentially try to use it as a political weapon so do you understand if democrats may be skeptical of this offer well you're talking about increasing the gas tax i was referring to the 200 billion that comes in the door from the existing gas tax but user fees you're talking about user fees it's a gas tax it's a user fee yeah yeah by the way another user fee that makes a lot of sense is as we're moving to more electric cars and hybrids and i'm a hybrid driver myself my hybrid truck should pay something to use you know roads and bridges so we should put something there the vehicle miles traveled idea on electric cars or some sort of a fee makes a lot of sense to make sure there's a level playing field and there's fairness there so there are ways to get there my point chuck is that democrats republicans alike are meeting uh we've got some phone calls scheduled this week i met with the white house late last week there's a way forward here if the white house is willing to work with us i want to ask about the other parts that president biden is proposing and for instance on the issue of education he makes makes an argument that hey for years we've funded essentially k-12 and that it's a time that the government essentially adds four years of education that it guarantees two on the front end two on the back end before we get to whether to pay for that should the government be guaranteeing four more years of education in the 21st century well typically it's not a federal government responsibility as you know feds probably pay about six or seven percent of k-12 education so um i think we can provide some incentives for i think pre-k makes sense it's good to give kids a better start in life there's no question about it that's you know one reason we do support head start at the federal level and then with regard to community colleges i'm a big fan of what community colleges do what's much more exciting to me and the proposal is the possibility that we would actually be able to use some of the federal support including pell grants for worker retraining because that's what's really needed is skills training and the opportunity for us to allow people to get a relatively short-term training session to get an industry recognized certificate and things like welding or machining or coding on the on the i.t sector or hospital techs those are the jobs we really need right now these middle skills jobs and so i would i would make more of an emphasis on that because that's actually the reality out there is that we have a lot of jobs going unfilled there's something like 500 000 jobs in manufacturing right now being offered and not filled and one of the reasons is the skills gap so let's let's close the skills gap that's that to me that would be the most effective way to use that funding before i let you go one of the things you said in deciding not to run for reelection is you lamented the fact that bipartisanship isn't rewarded and in fact you are somebody that has already voted with president biden quite a few quite quite a bit uh you yourself have noted that you don't seem to get credit that you've been one of the more bipartisan uh republicans when it comes to working with democrats um so why not stay and fight and make that point you know i know the political climate does punish that you're right punishes it on the left punishing it on the right why not stay and fight to change that attitude well i'm in for another two years and there's lots of there's lots of fights to be had including i'd love to talk about the higher taxes that janet yellen talked about because they will not make our economy more competitive it does just the opposite i respect her but she's just wrong on that in fact by raising the corporate taxes the way she wants to you're going to hurt workers the congressional budget office which is nonpartisan says that 70 percent of the tax cuts went into workers pockets with higher wages and benefits and the exact same thing is going to happen if you raise these taxes and by the way they're talking about raising the taxes five times higher than the taxes were cut in 2017. so this makes america not competitive again around the world and everybody thought that was important at the time but look my my decision was in large measure a personal one i've been doing this for 30 years off and on working for four administrations and and working in the congress both in the house and the senate and uh you know it's time to give someone else a chance but i'm going to stay involved but for the next couple years i'll be very engaged in trying to make sure that on a bipartisan basis we get some things done for the american people and not continue the the partisan fights but instead actually figure out how to find that common ground and i think we can and infrastructure is a great example of it it's always been bipartisan in the past republicans have proposed the biggest infrastructure plan in the history of of congress just last week so we're ready to go we want to roll up our sleeves and get to work and help make america's economy more competitive not by raising taxes okay but by doing smart things in terms of expanding our infrastructure senator rob portman a republican from ohio thanks for coming on and as you said it it is nice to have you policy exchanges between you secretary yellen and and the person we'll have next so thanks very much when we come back bernie sanders lost the battle for the democratic presidential nomination but did he end up wanting to wind up winning the war of ideas i'm going to talk to senator sanders next [Music] welcome back two times in 2016 and 2020 bernie sanders ran for president as an unapologetic progressive seeking vast increases in government social spending both times he lost the democratic nomination to perceive to be more cautious centrist candidates hillary clinton in 2016 joe biden last year but with president biden's proposals for vast new spending it's fair to ask did senator sanders lose the battles but win the party's war of ideas well bernie sanders joins me now senator sanders i saw you smirk there when i did that little tease about that um so go ahead and answer the question do you feel as if you know when you look at your two campaigns yes you're not president um but do you feel as if you won the war of ideas inside your party well it's not just me i think what you saw is millions of people standing up grassroots activists standing up and saying you know what at a time of massive income and wealth inequality maybe and chuck this is a radical idea but maybe just maybe government should represent the needs of a struggling working class and middle class and not just the one percent and wealthy campaign contributors and i think all over this country people said look there are massive problems exacerbated by the pandemic and i think president biden looked around and he said you know what we've got to address those problems not worry about the rich and the powerful so we are beginning to make some progress in dealing with issues that have been neglected for decades i'm curious your focus when it comes to seeing these plans get passed how important is the pay for part of this conversation um how much of this in your mind is you're willing you know what deficit spending these are investments you'll get return and how important do you think it is that you reform the tax code and use that to pay for this well i think number one most importantly we have to deal with the crises facing this country uh we have massive income in wealth inequality half our people live on paycheck to paycheck got to raise the minimum wage to a living wage you got to do that we have an infrastructure that is collapsing we have got to address the existential threat of climate change and when you do that truck when you make those investments we create millions of good paying jobs we have we are the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people as a right the only major country not to have paid family and medical leave we pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs hundreds of thousands of kids can't afford to go to college and millions leave school deeply in debt well you know what you got to address those issues meanwhile you got two people on top who own more wealth than the bottom 40 percent of america you got major corporation after major corporation not paying one nickel in federal income tax warren buffett one of the richest guys in the world reminds us that the effective tax rate for working families is higher than it is for the billionaire class so in terms of pay for yeah i do think we need progressive taxation which says to the very rich biden says the cap should be the floor should be four hundred thousand nobody under that should pay more in taxes but yes the very rich and large corporations should stop paying their fair share of taxes to help us rebuild america and create the jobs that we need uh if you have to make the choice because some of your democratic senate colleagues seem to have a little bit of nervousness about voting for some of these tax increases but they will vote for the spending will you take the spending if it doesn't come with the with the with the tax increases well the devil is in the details obviously but i think what has got to happen uh is we have got to begin addressing the enormous crises facing this country and that is what i think the president is trying to do i think once we start discussing these issues in the congress there will be differences of opinion but i think there is a consensus at least within the democratic caucus that now is the time to start protecting working families and the middle class and not just the one percent one of the things not included in the president's uh plan was some things that you wanted to see including lowering the eligibility age to medicare uh in particular being the biggest one there um and i want to ask you about it in conjunction with this statement that james carville made and i want to bring it up here it has to do with um joe manchin he says the democratic party can't be more liberal than senator joe manchin that's the fact we don't have the votes and i i bring this up because senator manchin has said he's not in favor of lowering that eligibility age do you think that was probably james why joe biden didn't include your provision in his plan uh no i don't think so james carville can live in his world i don't think he's terribly relevant to what happens in congress right now uh here is the story very simple story is that right now uh for the last 55 years since medicare was developed in 1965 it has not included coverage for dental care hearing aids and eyeglasses and i can tell you in vermont and all over this country you got t you got senior citizens whose teeth are rotting in their mouth older people who can't talk to their grandchildren because they can't hear them because they can't afford a hearing aid and people who can't read a newspaper because i can't afford glasses so to say that dental care and hearing aids and eyeglasses should be a part of medicare makes all the sense in the world second of all we're going to pay for this this is a pay for right now as i think every american understands we pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs we're getting ripped off every day by the pharmaceutical industry who in some cases charges us 10 times more for the same drug that's sold in canada or in other countries so what we want to do is what the american people want to do we want to negotiate prescription drug prices with the industry through medicare when you do that you save about 500 billion dollars and that can cover the cost of dental care eyeglasses and hearing aid under medicare as well as lowering the eligibility age to 60. that's what we have to do we have to pay for for that before i let you go we have obviously the virus is pretty pretty out of control in india it's not in good shape in brazil these are two pretty big countries that could have an impact on us both our our health and our economy um our vaccine distribution you know we have a lot here should we start sharing it faster than we are now particularly when you see what's going on in our hemisphere and in india should we be more aggressive here it seems like we've been a bit some might argue overly cautious about our vaccine supply well i think a couple of things chuck the answer is yes i think we've got to obviously make sure that every american gets vaccinated as quickly as possible but i do think not only do we have a moral responsibility to help the rest of the world that's in our own self-interest because if this pandemic continues to spread in other countries it's going to come back and bite us at one point or another but the second thing we should do is not only make sure that excess vaccines in the united states get around the countries that need it we should deal with this issue through the world trade organization of protecting the intellectual property rights of the drug companies and i think what we have got to say right now to the drug companies when millions of lives are at stake around the world yes uh allow other countries to have these intellectual property rights so that they can produce the vaccines that are desperately needed in poor countries there is something morally objectionable about rich countries being able to get that vaccine and yet millions and billions of people in poor countries are unable to afford it glad you brought up the intellectual property rights issue because that is something we want to get manufacturing started as soon as possible in some of these remote areas anyway senator bernie sanders uh the progressive independent from vermont thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective thank you very much when we come back president biden has decided to go big and spend big why he may not care how high the price tag is next [Music] and then it rained in the apartment sorry buddy i also had a landlord who thought he could fix things here we go again he could not oh you're gonna do it i'll slap some paint on this 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you a complimentary tech evaluation to help jumpstart your communications connectivity and security and we'll design a technology approach that's tailored for your business plus limited time offers worth up to a thousand dollars come into a participating store or book a virtual appointment to jumpstart your tech [Music] this week on today heroes of the pandemic we celebrate nurses moms and teachers i just feel like the world is in good hands join us as we honor those who lifted up others with special live events all this week on today welcome back panel is with us it's nbc news capitol hill correspondent casey hunt yamiche alcindor the white house correspondent for pbs newshour former democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri and lonnie chen a fellow at stanford university's hoover institution uh claire i want to start with you uh some of your former colleagues are um i think getting a a little nervous about some of these tax increases and you're seeing more openness to uh you know you don't have to pay for all of it where is this realistically heading uh are we going for probably half of what's been proposed on the tax increases at the end of the day and a little more deficit spending uh probably i mean what what chuck schumer has to do is he has to work through a many many senators it's not just joe manchin and christian cinema there are other senators that are concerned concerned about competitiveness and making sure that we target these tax increases for the people who aren't paying their fair share will it be 28 in terms of a corporate rate maybe 25 maybe 26 maybe 27 will everything on the wish list get through no probably not but at the end of the day chuck schumer is going to work through those senators and try to get them all to agree and then once he gets close to 50 like 49 and a half then he starts working on the republicans to get it across the finish line you know it's interesting it was notable that janet yellen never met she mentioned the specific percentage rates of some tax increases they're proposing but not the corporate tax increase which i i think was notable lonnie there there seems to be though you know rich lowry made this point earlier this week there's no tea party there is no it doesn't seem as if this version of the republican party is as allergic to the debt frankly as the as the version of the republican party that rob portman uh grew up in well look the republican party should feel like they need to make a case on the value of fiscal responsibility uh that is something that i think is an important case to be made and if you look at the proposals that the president's put forward what is clear is that yeah you know i think the public as your polling shows does want the government to do more but they also want the government to live in some ways within its means so there is a significant amount of support for example for a skinny down package that focuses on transportation infrastructure and water infrastructure somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 billion dollars that's a much more responsible approach than the several trillion dollar jobs plan that the president's put forward so i i think the republicans need to make the case on why it is that it's important to have packages that address the need but also do so in a responsible way look in the long run actually independent estimates suggest the president's jobs plan shrinks the size of the economy over the long run so these are the kinds of points republicans need to be making as they debate these issues casey look this is your beat uh it seems like republicans and even joe manchin and some other democrats want to do this more piecemeal is this where we're headed are we going to see a series of the physical infrastructure bills um and that's what happens and then what we'll find out whatever's left at the end of the summer and then democrats decide what to do i do think that's a possibility chuck i don't think that it's been firmly decided and as i was listening to senator portman earlier in the broadcast i thought he sounded more optimistic than i might have expected him to more open to potentially doing something like that and i do think if they are going to pass something that has republican votes it's likely not going to be everything that president biden wants and i think there are a lot of democrats who are assuming that they are at the end of the day going to have to go it alone especially uh frankly if they want to pay for it so you know that i think you've hit on exactly the right tension here there are there are no republicans who are interested in raising these taxes the way democrats are talking about but there is some nervousness among especially some of the more pro-business democrats who you know frankly are afraid to step out and and and do that in public because of exactly what bernie sanders outlined senator sanders outlined in your conversation with him so that's going to be a behind-the-scenes dynamic that i think is really going to drive a lot of this you know yamiche i am curious progressives are getting a lot of what they want but they're not happy about the healthcare provisions um are they so unhappy they would it would muddy up everything else or is this one of things that they may rhetorically complain about but accept it if nothing else changes i think that that's a big question that needs to be answered right now it sounds as though progressives are definitely wanting to push at least to try to get medicare for all to try to get some of the the medicare changes that senator bernie sanders was just outlining for you but overall when you talk to progressive lawmakers they are largely happy with what they're seeing from this biden administration you have people like larry cohen saying his staffing wouldn't have been any better if it was bernie sanders as president you have progressives saying that yes we want to see a bit more and it's our job to push him but in fact we are getting a lot of what we want six trillion dollars in spending if you add up all of the biden plans right now that's a lot of money that the and the body administration is really leaning in on the idea that they can expand the idea of bipartisanship to include all of those republicans who want to see money um further for their cities and they want to see it go past just roads and bridges to impact people's lives like home health care workers community college all of the different things that the biden administration is is proposing i think it's going to be a big challenge to get republicans to go on because the 2017 tax cuts were really their signature thing that they want to keep aboard and want to keep really there that's why i i smell deficit spending coming in a big way hey i want to quickly play a comment from senator scott and the republican response uh and and get you guys to react on the other side here it is today cues are being taught that the color of their skin defines them again and if they look a certain way they're an oppressor hear me clearly america is not a racist country yamiche and casey this sparked a huge debate uh among quite a few folks uh about the role of race in in the history of america here's my curiosity yamiche did his comments put police bipartisan police reform at risk i don't think so talking to sources because if you saw the the day after um president biden as well as vice president harris echoed that saying they don't believe america has a racist country they did though say something that senator scott did not say which is that there are consequences to slavery that have completely embedded themselves in american society from health care to education to how the chronic virus pandemic exposed and exploited um real inequalities in our in our country but i think talking to lawmakers and talking to the white house there is this inflection point after um derrick shoven being found guilty of murdering george floyd that feels like lawmakers will be able to get some sort of of bill at least negotiated and get far in those discussions so i don't think this specific comment from senator from senator scott is going to upend that and i think democrats are really trying to lean in to say what can we get done on this specific issue because it is so of course um really all-encompassing when you look at how policing and african americans um are dealing in this country casey yeah very quickly i mean i i i'm hesitant lucy in the football charlie brown and you name it but i ca the amount of optimism there is about a bipartisan police reform deal coming to fruition are you that optimistic i am actually optimistic chuck republicans have a very strong messenger and tim scott they're lucky to have him they trust him i think if it's going to happen you're going to see the major vast majority of republicans go with it it's not going to be tim scott and nine other republicans so i do think right now today it's possible all right when we come back so you think you know who the political winners and losers are with the next census well think again that's next [Music] welcome back data download time the census figures came out this week and it impacts not just the balance of power in congress but it obviously shifts votes in the electoral college so let's first look at the impact on the presidential election with the new data electoral votes changed in 13 states and states that democrats have traditionally counted on and particularly in the northeast new york pennsylvania michigan illinois and california each lost a vote by the way for california first time they have ever lost a seat due to the census and a number of states where republicans have done well in recent years texas north carolina florida and yes montana all gained a vote texas by the way the only state to add more than one vote to their electoral college total so at first glance it does seem as if republicans benefit and they certainly will gain congressional seats in the short run but these states have been changing over the last 50 years and they continue to so it's too soon to know the impact on the next decade of presidential elections you just have to look back to georgia to remember that right in fact we looked at the biggest shifts going back to 1970 and there is a pretty clear pattern no surprise the u.s population has been moving south and west over the past 50 years new york is the big loser it's down 13 seats in 50 years while texas gained 14 florida 13. in fact not one of the biggest loser states is west of the mississippi or south of the mason-dixon lot but the political impact can be a little harder to predict of the 10 states that have seen the biggest population changes since 1970 four have looked more purple in the last presidential elections we're talking of course about arizona michigan pennsylvania and georgia not to mention the presidential election margin in texas continues to shrink each cycle and then of course florida is always going to florida on us now remember this the south was once solidly democratic new england was republican territory so what looks to be an advantage for one party now may look like a disadvantage in just a short 10 years when we come back what in the world are republican state legislatures up to [Music] welcome back i want to take a look at how the sole heart and soul of the republican party has shifted far away from washington in fact during president biden's first 100 days it's pretty clear the heart of the gop is in the state houses here's what's happened in these first hundred days republican-controlled legislatures in eight states so far have passed laws that are restricting voter access including tighter limits on absentee ballots in some places at the same time similar bills have been introduced in 39 other states we don't know the results of those yet then there's been some crackdown on protesters five states already have passed bills that limit the rights of protesters florida for instance actually passed a law that would grant legal immunity to somebody who drove through protesters blocking a road by the way 27 other states have already had bills introduced that would also crack down on protests we don't know those results yet next up there's been a lot more looser gun laws 19 states so far this year have passed new laws that loosen gun restrictions including tennessee which now will allow people to carry handguns without seeking a permit in fact so far every state in the country has had uh bills introduced that would do one thing on the gun issue loosen restrictions and then finally seven states have passed laws that would prevent transgender youth from participating in student athletics and we know that similar bills have been introduced in another 26 states we don't know where that's going but lonnie chen you know when you look at sort of we've we've been looking at the first hundred days of joe biden this is the first hundred days of the of the republican party what are you learning from it because if the states are the laboratories for democracy what does this say about the future of the gop well look i think cultural politics have always been part of the republican party but just as you've got those examples you've got a number of republican governors who aren't focused on these sorts of things you think about larry hogan and charlie baker and mike dewine and phil scott a series of governors who are focused on governing and really the longer run vision of what the republican party needs to do to be successful in urban areas and suburbs in places like california where i live because look you know a lot of a lot of the republican party now that dialogue does seem to be around what the kids call owning the libs but in the long run i think that's probably not what's going to make the republican party successful and i think the examples set out by people like baker and hogan and others those are going to be the kinds of things that will make the republican party a successful governing coalition nationally again and that's really what i look for you sound i think a bit some might say overly optimistic claire mccaskill you saw this transformation in the gop uh frankly arguably a decade earlier in missouri um where's this headed where do you think this is going in other states i have to believe it's not good for the republican party because they have become simply the party of grievance uh it is all about culture wars it's not about the budget it's about the border it's about playing to people's fears and making that the centerpiece of who they are as a party and i gotta tell you i think local journalism and the demise of it has played a role in this chuck it is very difficult to get a lot of good information about some of the nut balls that are in state legislatures right now because there are so few local journalists left that is another problem we're going to have to tackle if we want to get back to some kind of normalcy in these state capitals yeah even in the state of florida the state's largest newspaper has to share a capital bureau i mean it is absurd you know yamiche i guess the question is do do democrats say all right you want to have a culture war gop let's go or do they have asymmetrical fight back meaning focus on bread kitchen table issues based on my conversations with white house officials and democratic lawmakers they're trying to lean in on the idea that they can deliver things to the american people services policies that will impact their lives and better their lives rather than getting involved in the culture wars that the republican party is so focused on you can see in republicans that they are really leaning in on strategies that helped president trump win in 2016 but failed in 2020 these are laws including the voting rights or protesting or the transgender laws they're all trying to solve problems that largely don't exist on a large scale most protests 96 of them were peaceful there is no large voter fraud but this is where republicans are trying to have their energy be because they are trying to scare their voters in some ways to the polls hi casey hines i want you to re i want a quick speaking of the culture wars uh kevin brady was on uh meet the press daily with me on friday i'm not gonna play the clip because we're short on time i asked him three times to give liz cheney a vote of confidence and he didn't do it he's a retiring former committee chair this is not somebody from the sort of far right fringe of the gop how much trouble is liz cheney in i watched that interview chuck and it struck me for sure and i i do think that there's a reason why liz cheney recently didn't really rule out the possibility she may run for president because she may be losing support in the house of representatives i think there are a lot of people who are with her behind the scenes but they're concerned that the public version of it will jeopardize their ability to take back the majority and that's really where the tension is we shall see if she can make it through the month let alone the rest of her term that's all we have for today thank you all for watching we'll be back next week for mother's day because if it's sunday it's meet the press [Music] more americans watch nbc news than any other news organization in the world

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Length: 50min 23sec (3023 seconds)

Published: Sun May 02 2021