Making Friends as an Adult (ft. Friendship Expert) | Episode 01

the longest running study on happiness ever is has been and is being conducted by Harvard University they have found that the number one factor that determines your well-being it's not income status it's not even marital status it's not having children or not it keeps coming down to the quality of your relationships at the end of the day it's the number one thing that determines if you are happy and if you are healthy the quality of your Social Network and so I just think it's worth paying more attention to not just as a recreational Pastime to have friends but from a wellness perspective today I am joined by the one and only Danielle Byer Jackson Danielle is a renowned friendship expert PR professional author and speaker who has dedicated her career to helping people cultivate meaningful and fulfilling friendships Danielle's expert advice has been featured in Outlets like the New York Times Wall Street Journal Washington Post NBC and O magazine she also speaks across the country about the power of female friendship and recently partnered with the one and only Bumble as the official spokesperson for their friendship platform Bumble BFF she's the author of the upcoming book fighting for our friendships which is coming out later this year Danielle how are you feeling today I'm feeling really good and I'm glad to be here talking to you okay and you just flew in right from Florida I did you look like you didn't just walk off a plane I took a shower I freshened up yeah for the occasion okay so I do have a preliminary question and it's just to make sure that you're qualified to be on the show and if you get it wrong you do have to leave oh my god um so the question is do you know what you're doing the answer is no I don't know what I'm doing you're good yeah you're good to go she's good to go guys she's qualified to be on the show she has no clue what she's doing just like the rest of us okay and I have a second preliminary question I don't ask this to everybody um but will you be my friend o the answer to that is a definite yes okay is a definite yes my parents were like if she says no like we will pay and the budget is also unlimited now I'm going to get into this little rapid fire round just so we can get to know a little bit more about your background first question is where did you grow up I grew up in Tampa Florida oh so you really are a Florida girl all right what did your parent or parents do for a living growing up my dad was a drill Sergeant in the Army and my mom was an accountant okay K Kelly um did you go to college and if so what did you study yes so I went to the University of Florida and I studied English what was your first job oh my God my first job was at Wet Seal I don't know if you've ever heard of it no I'm not that sounds like a Florida thing it was one of these like um retail shops in the early 2000s selling you know those like sweaters with like your initial on the sweater and whatever the hot jeans were it was just like the typical starting out job and I just thought I was like way too cool working in the mall you know you probably were too cool I probably would have been scared of you in high school what is your current job my current job is a friendship coach and educator very very nice do you like your current job I love my current job I love it so much okay now I want to talk about your crazy career trajectory so from my internet thing what I could tell and also I've been following you since 2020 on Tik Tok and so i' I'm like a little bit of a fan girl right now I'm not going to lie um but what I what I've discovered about you is that you were not always a friendship expert you were once a teacher that's true yeah so I actually started out as a high school English teacher so I was teaching 11th and 12th graders and um between class and after school the number one thing they wanted to talk about was friendships it always came back to that and I at one point became the academic chair so I was in charge of the entire department and it was like the number one thing that teachers were bringing me about their own classrooms was issues the students were having with their friendships and so we kind of had like a front row seat to how issues of connection and belonging impacted everything else their attitude their academic performance even their attendance like if you feel like your friend doesn't like you today or that you're out of the friend group you don't even want to come to school so it's just interesting to see how that kind of like infiltrated everything else um and so then I ended up leaving the classroom to get into public relations and I foolishly thought oh I'm no longer working with teenagers so I'm leaving that drama behind o you thought yeah and then you know I'm working with these amazing High achieving charismatic women and they too privately have their own friendship issues and so for the past six years for a living I leverag my background in education to study what the research has to say about women's cooperation communication and conflict damn girl definitely working PR that was like perfect um okay I'm curious I'm going off script a little bit here yeah let's do it what was your friend like friend group like in high school like did did you have friends you know what's so funny is the very first day of high school like I'm a freshman right and the very first day my mom's trying to like tell the girl in the neighborhood to sit with me on the bus and let Daniel sit with you at lunch and I'm like please you know and um long story short I walked into that cafeteria you look around you don't know who to sit with and I took my lunch right back out and I went in the bathroom and I ate that sad peanut butter sandwich alone in a bathroom still oh no but by the end of high school was on the basketball team and senior class president and and so it just was such like a coming into your own you know getting comfortable with who you are I think that's just like the theme of Life honestly wow that is like legit a Disney movie that that is crazy you went from eating the peanut butter in the stall to being like School president yeah wow that's like some High School Musical stuff right there yeah yeah it was it was awesome but I learned a lot and and made a lot of mistakes in my high school friendships but yeah I would like to think I've grown out of some of those those things and I think we all do I was just hanging out with my high school best friends the other weekend and we were like we were just like we first of all we were very weird in high school and like we were kind of mean to each other like we just weren't mature women we were like girls who made mistakes I'm so glad you said that because like I have shared that once on social it did not go well and I just thought it was so interesting because I think people see the Persona of you know it it is my you know personality and brand to be you know warm and encouraging in the content but the one time I was like yeah in high school I wasn't the nicest girl it was like it wasn't received well but it's like but that's true and I know now that that's from insecurities and things like that and I'm thankful that there have been things developed to me since then but that's that's my truth you know so if you're in high school and you're watching this like it's okay you're going to figure it out you're going to work at all the Kinks um so walk me through okay so you went to college you became a a teacher and you were teaching 11th and 12th grade students um what happened to make make you just like completely switch I think it's just kind of the state of education just in general you know I was like oh I might need a new job never heard that before I might need a new job I don't know if you've read any headlines ever no I thought teachers got paid really well and treated like I don't know if I want to leave this so is pretty good um but after like teaching all year and then having to work as a waitress over the summer break to make ends meet I was like I need something different yeah um so it's sad I I would like to think that I'm still a teacher through and through that's why I say I'm a friendship coach and educator I think that'll always be my blood um but it taught me a lot about you know our Dynamics and trying to relate to one another and no matter what age you are that does not change we're all trying to figure out how to navigate friendships oh absolutely yeah first I wondered when I learned about your teaching background I was like I wonder why she doesn't focus on high school students but then I was like wait wait no no no they go to school every day with the same people you're going to make friends eventually we need the help once you get thrown out into the world and you move to a city where you don't know anybody and it's like you're supposed to already have friends at that point that's when it gets oo taco and that's why you have been so successful cuz there's such a massive need here and we are going to get into that I'm just curious though going back to when you made that decision to get out of teaching and get into friendship coaching um I think there's a lot of listeners out there who are feeling unfulfilled in their current jobs or just burnt out and they're just looking for something else obviously looking back you're like oh yes I was a teacher and now I'm a friendship coach but I'm sure it wasn't that easy in the moment and you were figuring it out as we went along do you have any tips or advice for anybody out there who's like you know I think I'm just meant for something different I'm meant for something more there's something different that I feel like I have to be doing I don't like what I'm current L doing and kind of figuring out what that next step is that's such a great question because when people you know when I do outline the story of you know this happened then this happened and now I'm here it just is so easy to look back at things and see how they all make sense but I didn't know during those pivot moments what was happening you know and I you know I'm a person of Faith so I believe that things were orchestrated that way but you know for anybody who's feeling discouraged because they don't understand how where they are right now is connected to where supposed to be I felt like that so many times you know being a teacher I thought I was going to be that person who worked 30 years as a teacher and retired I loved it so much so it was especially disruptive to realize I think I have to leave and if I'm being totally honest I was very sad because I thought I am just a teacher I don't know how to do anything else I mean truly I don't know how to do anything other than be here every day and do these lessons and so the first thing I had to do is figure out okay what are some other jobs where I can use the same skills I like to read I like to write I like people so I really kind of shopped that around like what else could I do okay public relations so kind of getting strategic about it um but I do believe looking back everything was orchestrated in such a way that my unique experiences in each area all beautifully work together and they're all the things that I need to do what I do today yeah isn't it funny how looking back you're like I get why that all happened the way that it happened there really was a reason for everything and the moment it was so discouraging but you know one door closes the other one opens it's a Cheesy saying but goodness is it true um I love that so much and would you say that you're somebody who really listens to your gut or was this like a very strategic thing for you a little bit of both a little bit of you know it gave me a sense of control to say I'm going to sit down and think through how these skills transferred to another industry so I think that made me feel like I have some control over what's going to happen um but a lot of it too was just the generosity of other people connecting with other people somebody I met six months ago saying oh wait I know someone that I can introduce you to and so a lot of that too I mean it sounds kind of corny and woo woo but like connecting with other people like you have to be in community I mean I I got put on so many resources and opportunities because people were like wait what do you need I think I know someone and being unafraid to make the need known which feel embarrassing but people wouldn't have known how to help if I didn't say yeah I'm trying to figure out what to do next or I'm looking for a PR gig do you know of anything I I you know so I think making your need known and leaning into other people was such a key oh absolutely that's one of the biggest things since I've actually helped a lot of teachers get out of teaching which is so unfortunate that we lose so many great people just because we don't support them in the ways that they deserve um anyway different tangent and I'm sure you could talk about I help a lot of teachers you know transition out and a lot of people transition into different careers and you lowkey do have to humble yourself you kind of do have to you know be a beginner again and be an amateur again and say I need help I always tell people the first thing to do is just go to your network and just say hey guys like I'm no longer happy being a teacher I really love kids or I really love educating you know what else can I do because they're really is so much more that you can do with the skills you get from teaching and I think people do kind of get that well I'm just a teacher and it's like no if you can Wrangle a class of 30 like nyear olds you can you can definitely run a meeting oh 100% yeah now I'm like I can do anything I can do literally anything yeah and now you know that when you get out in the real world no one knows what they're doing and no one knows what's going on and you just have to make it up as you go pretty much all right so I really want to get into this next question I'm very very curious what you think about this so as somebody who's worked both BC and AC as we're calling it before Co and after Co I'm I like enter the workforce when it was normal and although I'm a freelancer I've have permalance so I've gone through periods of time where I went into companies every day and I I made friends you know I sat at the same desk I had my work wife I had my work besties like we went out to lunch we'd go to happy hour like it was genuinely fun and it didn't matter if some days the work got dry I had I had my my friends and I looked forward to going to work I brought my dog in for a while to this one gig I had it was just like really fun and then I also worked at another company for a long time postco and that just didn't happen it I didn't make those like natural friendships and it was like the same type of company so I'm curious that's just anecdotal but I'm curious if you like how you think the work bestie maybe like the fall of the work bestie you know like have they gone away and is that something that we should consider when we are talking about remote work because those relationships we're going to spend onethird of our lives at work we spend most of our waking hours at work and so if the people that you're talking to and interacting with you don't have that kind of like friendly relationship with because every meeting you have is over zoom and you're talking about an agenda and you don't really have those soft micro interactions where you go to lunch where you get coffee where you say good morning um I'm just I'm curious I know that's a lot I'm curious what you think the impact of that is having on our generation I have so many thoughts on this it's like not even funny you need a not yeah seriously oh kid let's take a break for me to recharge no I have so many thoughts first I want to First acknowledge I know people have very strong opinions on imperson work and remote work yeah I'm just going to share some facts okay um you're right we do spend a lot of our time at work 990,000 hours of our life the last I looked it up will be spent at work the number one place adults make friends is at work and what's interesting is a lot of times we tend to um like romanticized when the time that we were in school it was so much easier to make friends it was so much it's not necessarily that everyone was so great it's just that you clocked a lot of hours together and proximity plays a very large role in becoming friends because you're there and we're having the shared experience every day and so we do tend to share and engage in self-disclosure and become battle buddies over our shared hatred of the teacher or the boss so those things kind of organically form and you become my friend because of I see you all the time and so yes you kind of lose that with remote work that's just what it is um and yes you might have to do a little more heavy lifting to facilitate those opportunities for yourself now because you you know do have the benefit of some kind of social backdrop or institution to help kind of you know form that for you like you have that backdrop and when it's gone you have to manufacture that for yourself that is just true um and I know some people are like oh I want to keep my work and personal separate and and I totally get that and and I totally see how in some spaces you have to be kind of discerning about what you want to do but again if if you're being practical you might say I spend a lot of my time at work there are people here who aren't that bad and I'm open to forming friendships with them now I do want to emphasize this because I know a lot of times when we talk about friendships we're talking like bestie or nothing and there's there's some stuff in between options it's it's totally a spectrum and there's something known as dun Bar's number and the idea is that our brains only have the cognitive capacity to maintain 150 social connections now if you think of it in terms of like one big circle representing 150 and then smaller concentric circles inside of that the number gets smaller and smaller but the degree of closeness increases right and so you only have the capacity cognitively to handle three to five Ultra close relationships and then I think the ring outside of that is like 10 to 15 50 so on and so on I say that to say you need all of those rings I need my besties who I know intimately but I also get benefit from the people in the fringes which some people refer to as uh French friends and sociologists refer to as weak ties but there's value in knowing Dan from accounting who you bump into in the elevator yeah he might not be my bestie but he always has something funny to say or he's connecting me with tips that I need to know to like Advance my career but we get benefits from French friends and yes we have fewer of those social interactions when we're at home for work so I'll just say it like that yeah yeah and it's networking too at the same time I feel like back in the day you know you'd be like I'm kind of looking for a new job and they'd be like oh my cousin actually does this thing and those micro interactions those weak ties they're no longer formed at all when you're not in person and I think you're right people have feelings about it obviously you know people love working from home you get to get your cake and eat it too um but we do need to talk about the social cons of working from home um so that was really interesting done bar that was fascinating I really love that um so what are your recommendations then for people who are working from home is it they need because I mean I'm a freelancer so I've worked from home a lot even before covid and I have always had to prioritize going out and hanging out with friends going out and being social because if I don't I get weird it's true like I I what does that look like what does getting weird look you just get like weird especially with social media like you just get like out of touch I guess and especially as a content creator I'm always trying to like talk to people face to face as much as possible because we spend so much you know a lot of us spend way more time on a screen talking to people than actually face to face talking to people which is pretty freaky um and that's got to have an impact on our psychology it has to we're not going to know for decades to come but we're going to be like we messed up our par so I was listening to I don't know you on an interview or something and you were talking about that fascinating Harvard study that's been going on for what almost a hundred years now are am I putting on the spot can you tell us a little bit about that over 700 men yeah yeah so just like very broadly the longest running study on happiness ever is has been and is being conducted by Harvard University they have found that the number one factor that determines your well-being and overall life satisfaction is the quality of your relationships and I know you Center on work work is important and having money gives you access to things it's all important and it adds purpose to your life which is also important but it's not income status it's not even marital status it's not having children or not that makes you happy it keeps coming down to the quality of your relationships and so I just think it's interesting because it's kind of at the heart of everything and you know even when I got into like friendship coaching and friendship education people still to this day kind of scoff you know like oh you know and recently I was at of dinner and a girl was like oh a friendship coach okay and I was like no okay yeah but it's like it's so validating because at the end of the day it's the number one thing that determines if you are happy and if you are healthy the quality of your Social Network and so I just think it's worth paying more attention to not just as a recreational Pastime to have friends but from a wellness perspective absolutely yeah I want you to break apart that word quality yeah uh what does quality look like and how can we have more quality friendships that's a great question you know a lot of people will Define it a lot of ways but I would say does this connection add value to your life do you feel good pouring into it does it pour into you do you feel like you're performing here or do you feel you can relax into some semblance of authenticity I mean I think those things determine if this connection is solid do I feel comfortable or safe sharing things about myself taking risk making mistakes do I feel loved here do I feel seen here and again you know there are some relationships where it will be very intimate and somewhere we're not that close and deep but I love seeing you I love seeing you once a week for the time we do talk it it it boosts my mood you know that's really important so I think it's important because I know a lot of people who are very busy and who have a lot of followers and connections but are not uh satisfied okay and that it that matters got it and what about um people who say well I'm just introverted so I don't like to go out a lot um or I don't like to talk to people a lot what do you what do you think about those people do you think that the quality of their relationships is as important to extroverts or what's your feeling on extroverts versus introverts I guess that's a great question because a lot of times when I talk about you know oh you need friends you need different kind of friends there's often you know there are introverts who are like no this doesn't applied to me and I think there's a difference in how much social interaction you like to thrive and quality of relationships because I don't care if you go out less than an extrovert the relationships you do have in your life the connections with other people are they quality relationships meaning this adds value I feel satisfied um I think there's even something I don't want to get it wrong but I think there's even something that says one of the indicators of whether or not you will leave live till 80 is whether or not you have someone you can call at 2 in the morning to tell your troubles to which sounds very specific but they use that as kind of like a metric of your longevity and the idea is ultimately if you have that it probably signals other things you're probably plugged in you have social support you have a space where you can share which is the number one factor that prevents depression is having someone to talk to so it really encapsulates a lot of other things to have that so whether you're an extrovert and you like high degrees of social interaction or an introvert and you really kind of appreciate your own company you still need other people and the relationships you have need to be quality relationships you can't skirt around that okay so I heard you mention one time let tell me if I'm getting it right they asked a group of men uh if you needed if you were in a pinch and you needed a few bucks who could you call to ask for money who would and who would give it to you who would you trust with that kind of like task um and some of the men named friends who had passed away and they hadn't even known it is that true yeah so there was this you know study they did and that was one of the questions and they asked them to list the names of those they feel comfortable asking for money and some of the men listed names of people who died and it's like funny but deeply sad deeply sad and tell me why that so we were just discussing like women tend to think you know always complain about I always text her first she never text me first the relationship's very one-sided and yet men are out here naming friends who were literally dead they are not texting them first at all so why is there that difference between men and women you know so I I love talking about friendship at the intersection of gender because we do operate differently when we congregate in certain groups and and societal expectations and things like that um so I say that to say for men they are notorious for having more superficial friendships now this does not mean they don't have the capacity for more we're not talking about capacity or ability but a tendency to have more superficial friendships while women have deeper friendships and in terms of uh our degrees of self-disclosure and intimacy looks very different on average for the average man and the average woman and so it's interesting because mental be like oh you know we're just so chill like we don't get caught up in all that and it's true but it's also because you're not as close to begin with women are more integrated in fact there's research that shows that you know women integrate their female friends into their life to the degree of a sibling men integrate their friends into their lives to the degree of a cousin so that's I mean why it's painful when there's friendship breakups I mean it's deep and so that's why we're especially you know uh uh rattled by you know I don't know if she's getting closer to somebody else and you know on the surface one could dismiss it as that's really Petty but the research shows that women really value Mutual prioritization so if I feel like you're my number one girl yeah I like knowing that you also think I'm your it's just what we do and it's also why we have very intimate very strong bonds so I was just hanging out with my my two girlfriends from high school and we were talking about how when we ever get together it's like this therapy session and like we do laugh and stuff but I just feel like when guys get together they don't talk as intens as women do why do you think that in again in general why do you think that is in general okay this is so fascinating to me okay so I think it's because men really value um portraying an image of strength and self-sufficiency and autonomy right and so does it threaten my image of autonomy to tell you I'm struggling in these areas and I need your help with these things it kind of like detracts from my era of I got it I'm strong I'm a conqueror is my thought right but for women we do not really have those airs about us we're like oh my God I'm struggling like what are your thoughts and it's like girl I got you like we lean into that kind of relationship we need support and we Bond over that and so I think that might account for why the conversations themselves look different um and I think that again there are a lot of I don't know that that's necessarily biological I think there's a lot of cultural pressures that make it that way too you like it's it's safe and normal for women to talk but would a man be teased by another man if he was saying Hey I want to talk about you know my fears you know so so I think that plays a role as well but um yeah there are some notable differences and I wonder if that's a nurture versus nature thing I wonder if women are raised cuz I know women are raised as little girls keep a diary talk about your feelings it's okay to cry and boys it's generally again the opposite you know you can't just like keep a diary as a little kid everybody's going be like as a little boy at least so women are conditioned from age to express their emotions and that's okay and boys are not so do you think that that's something just inherently like in our DNA or it's just something that's societal and culturally learned I don't know it might be a little bit of both I just know it's it's just interesting you know and I have a 5-year-old son and so knowing these things I try to be conscious about you know tell me how you feel or giving him even the language to describe you know so even saying baby are you are you frustrated are you disappointed you know so even equipping him from a young age what's going on and it's totally okay to tell me how you feel um but it's interesting and it makes me you know sad cuz there are consequences of that we're seeing you know men are they're saying are having a mental health crisis because you know if you are going through something who do you go to and there's even data you know from 2021 that finds that in terms of American respondents that women when they're in emotional distress they go to their partner and their friends but men go to their parents and their partner so even that creates a dynamic where a lot of women feel like they're doing a lot of emotional labor cuz my husband my boyfriend my brother my dad he doesn't have people to go to yeah so he comes to me so women often are burdened with you know I've got to deal with my husband stuff and invite him places and help him through and my so you know it's just a lot of Ripple effects from us not leaning into friendship in the same way it's so funny so like in my family I have four brothers and a sister and so therefore I four sister-in-laws so lots of women and men and we have these uh Retreats every year where we take all the women and we all go do a weekend and all the guys go do a weekend it's usually like in a cabin the girls we spend weekend like cooking and talking about our feelings and like drinking wine and the guys you're like what' you do all weekend and they're like we went rafting down a river like it's just completely different but yet both of our cups are getting filled like I genuinely think the guys are still having fun and I'm sure that they do have some deep conversations here and there they're just not like that's not something that they get really excited about and I find that me and my sister and my sister-in-law and my my mom we get excited we're like we're going to go like chitchat for the weekend and the guys are like we're going to golf you know so it's just so funny seeing that difference and again it's just general not every guy or girl be like that um so if uh you know maybe a a wife or a girlfriend is watching and she sees her spouse or partner struggling or maybe there's a guy watching and he's really struggling what is some advice you think that is like actually practical and appropriate for men who are just looking to make more friends maybe they just moved to a new city and they're working this job and like they have some people people at work they might know but like how can they take that next step to actually make some some friends yeah okay I love that question so for women listening and they have a guy in their life um I recently did an episode on my podcast the friend Ford podcast and we interviewed a bunch of men and I asked them cuz I was like I don't know and a lot of them were telling me some interesting things and they said for the wom in their life you know um don't ever uh shame them for telling you know sharing their feelings even if it's a joke yeah but that's the that's what we want so if he's ever you know up about something not oh you're so upset or oh gosh you're getting soft on me be mindful of how many times you playfully dig at that the second thing is if you're encouraging him to go with his friends don't say it uh like you need to go talk to somebody to motivate them um it's better if you push for them to go do things together or if you say things about them having wisdom that they need to share like you know so much he could probably benefit from being with a guy with you you know so much so those things are more motivating and like you need guys you can talk to that you can open up with is just a different motivator so they operate a little bit differently um and then finally invite them to some of the events you go to I say some cuz sometimes women are like you're inviting your boyfriend again okay so every now and then be like oh do you want to come if it's you know every now and then um for men who are listening it is okay to be like yeah I'm looking for some guys to like connect with you know maybe lead with activities maybe say like hey I am working on this project I'm looking for some guys to help me out you know I'm working on so so some of those things give a a third object I've heard it referred to so they say men often need a third object what's the thing we're doing and conversation will follow making a fire chopping down trees so like if you want to start a group online or in your neighborhood and say like yeah a couple of us are getting together because I'm trying to put the shed together but it's just so complicated and I know that might sound reductive or stereotypical but that might be more motivating to a guy as opposed to like a we're going to get together and talk about how we feel so you know I would say lean into it but but for the guy who's listening who feels like he's alone you're not I get the emails all the time you are not but you have to kind of have the courage to um raise your hand and say hey I'd like to link up because you'd be surprised by how many others feel the same way the more we talk the more scrunched up I'm going to get by the way it's just what I do yeah cutle up see last time I took my shoes off but it's kind of hot in here so I'm not going to do that with you um okay so I want to bratzman and Ginman I don't know why but I don't know a single woman who has had an easy time picking her Bratz Maids why do you think that is I feel like it wasn't like that for my mom's generation so I've had several coaching sessions where the woman's coming to me to talk this through okay and again I can't stress enough onlookers or Outsiders are tempted to dismiss it as that's so petty oh my God so much drama yeah the reason it's such a big deal is because of what we said earlier women really value Mutual prioritization I like feeling that if I'm your number one girl you're my number one girl I like that well when you now have it the one time in your life where you have to put your friendship hierarchy on display that's going to cause issues so if I'm thinking we're close we we know everything about each other we see each other every day and then I'm either not the maate of Honor or I'm not in the bridal party at all yeah you do have women walking away thinking wow this isn't what I thought this friendship is not what I thought I don't even know if I want to stay in the Friendship anymore I mean multiple times have heard that because they feel like they just Unearthed this Revelation wow you are not as close to me as I thought you know so it's it's a whole thing it's also very disruptive because a lot of friendship stuff that you've been sitting on tends to come out during that time comes out of the woodwork yes so if you chose the childhood best friend but she has a tendency to make things about herself or the friend who's like okay I'm your new friend and I'm closer to you than her but you chose her over me and and then them trying to some of them signal their closeness with you you know at The Bachelorette they're trying to show that they've known you longer there's just a lot of things going on you know during that time and I want to you also mention women on the other end because some women don't have an issue figuring out who going to pick some women do not have bridesmaids as options at all yeah so I've worked with them who were like I don't have anybody I I've actually worked this sounds super specific multiple times have talked to women who are pretending they want a small wedding MH but it's really because they don't have anyone to be a bridesmaid I mean multiple times wow so on the other end feeling a pressure to Showcase who your people are and realizing oh my gosh I don't have four super close girls in my life so I'm I'm actually relieved for the growing trend of people who are like you know what we're not even having a bridal party we not do we're just going to do it our way so I'm kind of relieved for that cuz it can be yeah it can be an issue oh but there's so much to impact there um you know for me I'm very very honored when somebody asked me to be a bridesmaid I personally I love weddings I cry at every single wedding I go to I just love how it's like all about love and partying and just like Good Vibes I love being a bridesmaid I love supporting my friends have always been a very loyal and supportive friend um on the flip side if you don't ask me I'm good with that too like I I really am just good either way but but I do understand how people can take it so so personally especially when again that that mutual thing that you're talking about where I thought we were better friends than we actually are um but I think something else is that it's kind of like the Myspace top eight like it's like this is the time when you officially make the roster and it's like you either make it or you don't and it's very much like a clear like you see those girls who have like 13 bridesmaides and you're like oh my gosh she had so many friends but really she was just in a sorority and she graduated last year so like that's another thing that's really interesting is that I wonder if it's more complicated now because people are generally getting married later so like Millennials and geny the age we're getting married at on in general is older so if I got married like the first year out of college you know it's kind of easy you pick your college friends but if you're a few years out from there and you start to drift away from college friends a little bit that when it starts to get a little sticky and you got these new work friends and you're kind of in this in between space um but yeah it's it's a very very stressful thing for a lot of people and I have had a few friends just foro the Bridesmaids thing and the groomsman thing and they're like you know what I have a sister I don't get along with or I have an aunt that wants to do this or I have a childhood friend who will get hurt if they're not my maid of honor so I'm just going to avoid it though yeah yeah people are trying to find ways to work it to fit where they are and I get all that for the person who's like feeling overwhelmed right now like I got to go get a bunch of friends so what do I do I like to like calm us down and make it very tactical like this if you're listening and you're thinking I feel like I need to get more people in my life but I have no idea how I'd even start doing that yeah there are three types of loneliness intimate relational and Collective intimate means you intimate loneliness means you lack being intimately known for a lot of people that is Satisfied by a best friend or a partner m MH then there's relational loneliness meaning like I need some relationships yeah where I know them they know me yeah and then there's Collective loneliness which means a lack of feeling like you're a part of something greater than yourself so a lot of people find this community in church volunteering certain causes they feel like I'm a part of something bigger me I'm a part of this group yeah so if you're feeling disconnected it's one of those things yeah to give you a little bit of direction so you don't feel so overwhelmed it might be one of those things so one exercise and I'll end with this that will help you figure out where you need to start moving your feet is let's look at Collective loneliness right I want you to think about the phrase I am blank how would you fill in that sentence and how can you do that let's say five times so for me I might say I am black I am a woman I am a creative I am a Christian like what are the things of my identity I would fill that out as then your next task is are you in community for those things that's it so if I'm a mom where am I going where that part of my identity is affirmed I'm getting support as a black woman I need friends who understand the unique experience of going through the world like that as a creative I need some people who can like have a creative conversation and not just talk Excel all the time you know I need that so for the person who feels overwhelmed like man I hear you Danielle I know I need connections but I don't really know what to do that might be the first thing to do to start having Clarity on I know I where I need to start moving my feet oh wow how much do I owe you damn yeah they were saying that Harvard study that loneliness is one of the most complex emotions a human being can feel and it's one of the most damning things that can be a death sense yeah it's crazy these lonely participants in the study would just die earlier if they have somebody like supporting them and keeping them going and didn't have that that bucket so at the end of every episode we are going to co-author advice okay yes and so I hand selected a submission that I thought you would be the literal expert for hi Ain I'm hoping you can help me with the dilemma I'm facing in one of my friendships my friend let's call her Sophie and I have been close since we were in high school now in our mid 20s however slowly over the past 3 to 4 years we've been growing apart and it's becoming a bit awkward for me the problem is that Sophie has become very outspoken about her political views which are vastly different from my own and have become increasingly more Fringe since 2020 she's always been a smart and skeptical person Someone I used to go to to discuss controversial topics a couple of years ago she married a guy who has more extreme views staun conservative spends a lot of time on Reddit and listening to conspiracy theory podcasts with that he completely believes are true I love hanging out with her but when anything vaguely political comes up the conversation turns sour me I find myself losing respect for her when she says something blatantly untrue like it's a cold hard fact and the worst part is she knows I lean to the left but it's like she is still working to convince me that I'm flat out wrong I'm all for having friends with different opinions but it's reaching a breaking point where her opinions feel less and less like something I should bite my tongue on she's not mean in any way she's just so deeply wrapped up in these thoughts and beliefs I don't want to cut her off or break the Friendship entirely but I feel so awkward bringing it up to her because I don't want her to think I'm being self-righteous or judgmental should I bring it up to her should I minimize contact or would you recommend I break off the Friendship Al together um so I like to say I like to offer things to consider as you make the decision that's right for you that's how I kind of get around that okay okay um the first thing is like yeah to your point so many people are going through this I've had that where you're like okay I don't know how to feel because I love you but also I can't condone literally anything you're saying um first I just want to validate um to some degre agree we do have Harmony in our friendships when we share the same World Views not opinions but we see the world the same like we subscribe to the same ways that it ought to function what's right what's wrong what's inhumane what's immoral like it brings us together because we see the world the same okay so I totally get how it feels very jarring when you're like wait we don't see the world the same yeah and so the the main thing I would say is for a lot of people when we very on political things some people can come to some kind of agreement you know what let's take it off the table let's not talk about it but sometimes that doesn't work and if you find that the issue on the table is one where you feel like your Humanity or somebody else's humanity is threatened because of these ideas like these ideas are harmful it makes total sense to me that you feel like it's repellent like I can't get close to you yeah because I don't have respect for the things that you say and believe and what makes it really tricky is we think oh my God gosh but will this make me a disloyal friend what does this mean we don't have to vilify somebody to distance ourselves from them it's easier too it's easier to be like you're a jerk and leave but there's gray area here so I would say if you find that you can have boundaries okay we won't talk about these things and still maintain a friendship go for it but if it's to the point where it's causing resentment you're questioning who she is as a person you feel like her views are harmful to the world cuz she's perpetuating things that are dangerous yeah and you can't just contain it by minimizing your frequency of interactions you might have to consider hey this is somebody who if they needed me in a crisis I would be there yeah but it feels harmful to continue to engage with this person in my life and to go ahead and grieve what you used to have but get more comfortable with a distance that allows you to maintain some sense of uh I guess joy and integrity yeah for sure and she and last thing I'll say cuz she mentioned like I don't know how to bring it up to her it's okay to say like man girl I'm finding it hard to like click with you lately because I don't see things this way and I don't know it's and I and I'm not trying to be self-righteous like she used that phrase in the message to say it like I hope you don't think I'm think I'm judging but um it's really hard to connect with you because I think some of that stuff is really dangerous um but I'm curious to hear what you think what are your thoughts it's a it's kind of a great area thing right it's tough and I I really resonated with what you say a lot of the times people come to me and they'll say really want to tell somebody else this but I just don't know how to say it and I'm like say it exactly how you decid it to me not always but like you know some of the times I'm like just tell them that like just tell them you don't want to be self-righteous you don't want to sound condescending or judgmental or whatever but just tell them like maybe can we just avoid politics because I notice that every time we bring it up like maybe things get a little tense or like you know I have different views about this so can we just stick to like these other topics that we love to talk about but yeah I mean it might mean minimizing contact if it is causing them that much anguish um and people do grow apart like you know your interest will maybe grow in different directions and that friend might become a different type of friend to you um but yeah I would say that that's really that's really difficult um but I would definitely talk to the friend about this in a very like loving and just non-judgmental way that would be my recommendation my expert friendship recommendation yeah and it's hard not to want to change a person I think that's where it gets tense too like hey let me show you all the ways that that's wrong and one and just a talk to your point talking to maybe acknowledging hey it's it's been really hard lately I know we see things differently and I don't know how to get over that I'm really struggling like to even say that I'm struggling to connect with you because just lately you see some things that I just girl I can't get with you know and you know it's really hard but if to your point if if you guys can't take it off the table and you find you want to talk about these things but you can't even talk to your friend about the things I mean friendship is based on I trust you I respect you I see things the way that you do we if all that's removed as a consequence of differing political opinions I mean yeah you know people change too people change over time yeah um and that's okay well I think that was fantastic advice um I hopefully Sophie and the writer get some type of resolution because it sounds really stressful and it's maybe even stressful for her too so you never know maybe you're doing her a favor by bringing it up um but I wanted to give you a little moment here to talk about your new book I mean you got a podcast you got a book you got a coaching you got your PR agency I don't know and you got two kids yeah how do you keep your head on straight like you must have a team of people so great so tell us about the book when's it coming out when can we expect to buy and read it yeah thank you for asking about that the book is titled fighting for our friendships and the whole idea is just what are the mechanics of women's friendships okay because I don't know if you're seeing the same things on socials that I see but there's like seven flags that she's a narcissist and three signs that and it's like I get it and that's helpful but at the end of the day you end up saving 20 30 videos trying to commit all these rules to memory of what's against Girl Code and what are the red flags and I just don't believe it should be like that yeah I believe that if we take an aerial view of wait what brings women together and what tears them apart if you learn that then you'll be more confident and equipped for the little things um and so you know all of my stuff lives at better female friendships. comom and I'm so grateful to you for facilitating a moment to talk about this like for hearing that your audience wants this and saying let's talk about it and for allowing me to lend my voice to the conversation and I really appreciate that oh my gosh of course it was a pleasure to have you I mean there's a reason you've been featured in all these Publications there's a huge huge need you're very articulate you're very well researched and I think you're making a huge impact on the one thing research say says that affects our happiness and our longevity um so thank you thank you so much please go follow Danielle on social go to her website do all of the things and I can't wait to read your book I'm so excited to add it to my bookshelf I'm sure it was a ton of work and research going into that Everything You Touch turns the gold so I can't wait to read the book um and thank you thank you so much for being here today thank you for having me

Channel: AdviceWithErin

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Length: 47min 50sec (2870 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 20 2024