Episode 219: How to Strengthen Your Friendships & Make New Friends with Danielle Bayard Jackson

[Music] thank you for tuning in to balance black girl podcast my name is Les I am your host this podcast is all about conversations that help us feel healthy happy thriving so all month long in February we are talking about friendships on the podcast because last February I had an episode about platonic intimacy that I was like this is a great conversation I think the girly are going to like it and turns out the girlies loved it and I was like okay we need to dive deeper into this topic we need to talk more about friendships how they impact our well-being how we navigate them through different seasons of life and I am very excited to welcome an incredible guest who is the best in the biz at talking about friendships please join me in welcoming Danielle BR Jackson who is just our favorite friendship expert also host of the friend forward podcast welcome well thank you for having me I've been listening to your show for a while and so this is a really cool opportunity to sit and have this very important conversation with you oh my gosh I am so so happy to have you so first off I mean we're still getting settled into this new year how how's 2024 treating you how are you doing you know I said my word for the year is ease and it's just so funny because you know you get to going especially when that's your natural default setting is to hustle and so I have to actively remind myself hold on a second we're only in like a couple weeks deep yeah take a breath so it's something I'm I'm continuously working on what about you so what's funny and this might be kind of an answer that people may not expect is that I'm almost feeling the opposite where I'm leaning into a season where I'm kind of hitting the gas pedal a little bit and I use the word season very specifically because it's not forever I'm not going to be like hustling girl boss for forever but I realize I have an opportunity to kind of rise to the occasion for some of the goals that I have and so I've been very focused on kind of powering through and rising to the occasion I love it for you yeah to ride that energy I think is super important but it's temporary I'm going to be ready for some ease give me Q2 going to be a different answer we'll check in we'll Circle back we'll Circle back exactly exactly so like I mentioned I'm super excited to have you here because friendship is a topic that our audience takes to so much I mean it's something that we all deal with in one way or another whether we are struggling with friendships as we navigate different seasons of life or moving to a new city and I would love to talk to you a bit more about friendships about your work in Friendship you've also had a really Dynamic career starting off in education now a friendship expert can we talk a little bit about how your experience in education led to the work you do now yeah it's so funny because whenever I'm at like a party or something and you get that inevitable like so what do you do question I just brace myself because I'm just like you know a little this a little that uh because people still kind of give you the eyebrow lift of Suspicion like is friendship coach a real job um but it's it's not necessarily something I set out to do I was a high school teacher for about six years and then I became the academic chair of one of the largest departments and the largest schools in the county and um and it was a lot and so when I was there between classes and after school I mean the main thing students wanted to talk about was friendship stuff and so I kind of had like this front row seat to watch the ways in which issues of connection and belonging were directly impacting everything else their confidence academic performance uh whether or not they came to class and so it was just such an interesting Vantage Point especially for young women specifically to watch their Dynamics okay and so I left that world and then I got into public relations and so I made the foolish mistake of thinking oh I'm leaving that teenage drama behind because I'm working with these women and I learned very quickly that despite being high achieving extroverted women they too privately had issues with friends and so I was like I went on Amazon one day I searched friendship books and at the time there were very few results and of the results that came up they were mostly for children and that's when I was like wow okay so that's what we think of friendship that surely a child might need help with it but adult should have it figured out and so for the past six years I have made a living by studying what the research has to say about women's connection cooperation communication and I just see my role as kind of making that uh research accessible and actionable for people and so far it's been um a blessing to be in the space that is beautiful and I think it's such a good point that a lot of the things that we maybe experience or have a hard time with When We're Young don't magically change just because we're older a lot of the ways that we relate to one another are very similar it just might be about a different thing or a different connection point or maybe a little bit more complex as an adult but it's the same kind of relations that we have yeah hopefully we're getting better at maturing at certain things not being as tender but I mean it's never something we were talking before we got started it's never something you fully arrive at like oh I've got friendship right I mean I hope that sometimes you're in a season where Everything feels like it's just sinking up and you have a rhythm and I mean that's beautiful but inevitably there's going to be something because you are bringing your own specific goals needs and desires to the table and so is your friend so don't you think at some point there might be competing interests and now we kind of have to do the work of figuring out okay how are we going to do this here and for some of us it's a skill we're just constantly having to to cultivate do you find that some people are adults and maybe this is why there was not as much literature there as adults we don't prioritize friendships as much as we do when we're younger because we have other things we begin to have careers we have Partners we have kids and it can be hard to put in the work for friendships have you found that in the research oh totally and I think that um the the literature that we do have available and how it kind of drops off at a certain age is reflected of what the research shows and that is that uh your social network grows and grows exponentially until about the age of 26 at which point it begins to dwindle and it's funny because that's the point where young women start to come to me mid 20s um and it's because of all the things you just said you know maybe we're on track we're in the same bubble and we have the same schedule even until that age and now we're prioritizing different things some of your friends are really serious about establishing uh Family Ties they want to settle down some are very focused on the career so they're putting in extra hours because it's important to them to to start advancing you know so we have competing schedules and interest and it does kind of take us in different directions and it can be it feel like it's hard to kind of circle back absolutely yeah well I would love to get into maybe some of the strategies and ways that people can start prioritizing friendships if they're realizing hey this area of my life needs some love I need to show it some attention yeah um I will say for me one of the most freeing realizations I've had as I've gotten older is understanding that it's okay if friendships look different than they did when I was younger I think when you're a kid or a teenager you get very hung up on the idea of I have this best friend we do everything together I tell them everything we have our matching friendship bracelets and they are everything and then when we get older it's hard for people to be our everything yeah and I've learned how to have kind of different friends that I connect with in different ways I have some friends who I meet up for a workout with and some friends who I meet up and co-work with and some friends who I like to go out with and allowing those friendships to serve those purposes has actually felt really freeing is that something that the literature supports is it helpful for people it is okay so there's research that finds that people who have relational diversity are happier so the person who has the church friend the mom friend the happy hour friend the wellness friend is probably experiencing more life satisfaction than the person who has sister and bestie and you know I always hesitate there because I don't want people to take from that oh I got to act like an extrovert and go make all these friends that's that's not the case but my thought is that if a person has a lot of different connections it probably speaks to them being plugged in in the world and doing lots of things so you having your workout Budd it signals that you go to the gym or you take care of yourself in that way or you know if you have your church friends it probably indicates you're plugged into a religious community which has a lot of rituals that connects people so being plugged into the world one natural byproduct of that is having different kinds of connections and then that's how we get access to different resources that's how people put me on to certain things I'm like oh my God girl that my bestie would not know she's not in that world it's how I get support for you know certain Lifestyles and I'm affirmed for my intersectional identities so it's important and I love the word you use about being you know feeling like it's freeing to have different kinds of friends um now I think you know there will be varying degrees of closeness maybe but to have different kinds of friends is is really beneficial for your wellness and your happiness yeah I love the term you use relational diversity that's that's really cool I think part of what helped me with that was that I did have friends who I was like I want them to be my everything yeah and then I'm I'm like well this person actually is really great at showing up for our workout and she's not that great at showing up at this other thing no te no shade it just is what it is so if I just let her show up for the things that she's good for and I don't look to her for more than she's able to give that's where the feeling freed part comes in so I say that so that people don't feel like they need to then go out and meet a bunch of different people and pluck them into certain areas of your life it's probably people you know who are good in showing up in certain ways let them be that and don't expect if you don't have that closeness or that intimacy built with them expect them to be something that they're just not or unable to give yeah and I think it's important too for just like more joy and the friendship because the research does tell us that that women have higher expectations in their close relationships so romantically and in friendships we expect more especially in the areas of self-disclosure and reciprocity we expect more than men do and so I think one way to help us experience more satisfaction is to manage our expectations in that way so instead of me being disappointed that she uh does not respond in the way I like when I'm venting emotionally you know I can either push there and tell her what I'd like or I can just say you know what I'm going to accept that that's not her thing and that's okay and you know well she'll be my party friend and and that's okay and I'll manage um so you know I know for some people that's disenchanting but I think it starts to help you see the abundance in your friendship landscape when you can look at it from that way that's such a good mindset to have the the abundance of letting people show up as they are you also just said something really interesting that women tend to have higher expectations of their friends can we talk a little bit more about what that means and how that tends to show up and how we interact with one another yeah so the research shows that um women tend to perceive more violations than men do in their friendships so you know I mean there are all these running jokes about it and comedy sketches and stuff around you know a woman being like did you see that and a guy being like what what did she do you know but there are certain things we like okay this is not okay this is obviously not okay and my theory is just that you know a lot of times we say you know women have a six sense and we just believe a lot of things should be intuitive and we just know because we're a woman and I'm wondering if in our friendships with other women if I assume that because you're another woman you should know like you should know girl I shouldn't have to say how to respond when to respond what I need and how to support me because you're another woman so you should get it and then I think that's only compounded by a tendency we have to not articulate what we need because again I feel like if we have chemistry as friends I shouldn't have to say it and me saying it detracts from the chemistry we're supposed to have and so I when you put it all together you have a lot of us feeling uh dissatisfied um and and maybe even resentful um because we won't communicate what we need um or because we won't kind of manage expectations in that way that is so interesting do you think that that gets exacerbated as we go through different seasons of life like some of the life events where I think people friendships tend to reach some friction is you know if a friend gets married or if a friend has a child then maybe that friend has these expectations of well my friend should know what I need but maybe they haven't experienced that life event yet so they genuinely don't know and it could create some tension yeah oh for sure and it's so interesting because I don't want to be offensive but I feel like just say it like you're a safe girl let it all safe space you know I I just feel like women do have so many Chang es in the woman's life cycle um and sometimes you know men don't and there's even research to sometimes support that like even when a man gets married like his life gets better and a married woman's life they report less satisfaction and it's probably because we we do so much and we're expected to step into so many roles emotionally we're sometimes his support and just all the things uh taking on more of the domestic labor like there's just so many shifts in our health and just all these things I say that to say you know when you put a group of women together I don't know what season you're in and what period you're in and you know so there's a lot of experiences maybe we haven't had and unique obligations we're experiencing and so you're right because the research does show that the number one thing women expect in their female friendships is emotional support which is great I know I do I'm like okay if anything girl I need you to be able to like help me out or why are you here okay so I get it the only thing is again we don't normally articulate what that is and so I've noticed that a lot of us are using the same language by having different conversations because we're all going to nod eagerly and be like yes support but when I go the next up and I'm like and what does that look like for you like if I watched your friend support you what would my eyes see and we're often saying different things and so at some point I do have to say hey so you know you know having this newborn is really really hard and I have fomo and I feel like I'm being forgotten and I feel overwhelmed and so I don't know if you could just you know invite me even though sometimes I can't come I don't know it just makes me feel like you guys were thinking of me that doesn't make you thirsty clingy needy but how else do friends know what what support looks like they you guys have never had practice being friends in this way so kind of giving yourself Grace to say as a unit we've never done this before so you know there's there's room to kind of negotiate what this might look like for us I love that and navigating kind of those different friendship Evolutions instead of okay you hit that speed bump and then you just think okay we can't be friends anymore this is this is too hard or they don't support me yeah what about those instances people don't know how to support you or they're unable to or don't have either the tools or theity to yeah you know that's really tricky um and can feel really hurtful I think if like somebody's your girl and you need her help and you realize she can't give it to you um I think it might be a matter of two things is her willingness and her ability does she want to and she it's just not working or is it like a she doesn't even want to try to do what you asked her to do I think those are maybe two different issues especially if we spell it out like hey you know maybe if you did this it would be helpful if she's telling you you know hey I hear you but I can't do that we do have to make choices at those Crossroads okay do I accept that she can't and you know turn to someone else um a lot of times I'll I'll kind of tell women this is where being plugged into Community could be really helpful because I know we tend to use like friendship and community synonymously and sometimes our friends offer Community but again going with like the new parent thing I know for me I was one of the first in my friend group to have children so sometimes I did feel like you know I'm sharing something that was hard and they're like oh girl I know what you mean and then they share their hard thing and I'm like okay yes that's also hard you know so just just those things right um and it was helpful when I started going to Mommy groups which I did not want to go to I was like I'm not going to be that girl my husband's like you need help and it was so affirming to that aspect of my identity to have women who were like h girl okay this is what I did this is what oh my God thank you I found myself less frustrated with my friends because I no longer was looking for you to give me this very specific Niche affirmation and support so I guess it's like a case-by case basis but at least knowing we have the option to supplement our friendships with specific communities might help everybody be a little more at ease I love that word supplement you're not replacing or you're supplementing yeah you're supplementing definitely get that I I know something that I have struggled with in friendships I have some some core wounds childhood wounds that I'm working through around abandonment with friendships a lot of people talk about abandonment as if a parent abandoned you as if that's kind of the only way that that can affect you I didn't have that experience I more so had social abandonment and feeling like friends growing up didn't show up for me or you know being stood up by friends or excluded and things like that and I've had instances where I do have friends who maybe go through life transitions who want to still be included and invited even though I know they're going to say no for me I then get triggered because I'm like well this is just another example of people not showing up for me and so while I would love to extend you the invitation to sooe your feelings about not having fomo it then hurts my feelings because I know you're going to say no and then it makes me feel like no one's showing up for me and figuring out how to manage okay how do we ease both of our triggers at the same time when we need kind of opposite things can sometimes be a little bit of a dance in friendships that I'm still learning totally oh my gosh and I appreciate you saying that so much because I know there are women listening who are like yes same right um yeah it's hard I think that um sometimes even frontloading those conversations because what I notice is again just a theory is just that a lot of times when we don't meet each other's needs or we're missing one another or we make certain decisions I think some women jump to uh what's called fundamental attribution error and the idea is that um if I fall short it was due to my circumstances if you fall short it's due to like your character and so I think sometimes we reach right to like I can't believe she's acting like that or she's this kind of person I didn't know she was that kind of person or this kind and we kind of like conflate the thing with her character and I think we start to question does she even care I mean at the heart of everything like you know we get into the details which are important because we need to know how to get into the day-to-day business of being friends but if we like took an aerial view and looked at it the questions we're trying to answer do you care do you love me do you see me so if at the end of the day A friend is like well I just need you to keep inviting me even if I say no because that makes me feel like you care and you're like okay well I'm only going to do that so much because hearing no feels like rejection so I'm not going to keep putting myself out there in that way how do we answer the question for each other here's my preference and my and my uh complexes and here's what makes me feel cared for so if I can say girl I'm not going to keep doing that because it sucks to have you say no I love you but I'm not going to do that that you know so I'm still kind of reassuring you I care about you and I do want your company there but can you consider my perspective it's hurtful okay that way at least when the invitations stop coming she's less likely to assume it's because you don't care I explain to you why those things aren't coming I still very much care but for me I can't do that anymore that's so helpful it's that open communication so that we know where one another is coming from yeah so so helpful thinking more about some of the positive aspects of friend CU I know we've talked people through the challenges and and we can definitely talk more about that in some instances I just want to make sure it's a balanced conversation no pun intended I think um yes exactly I think also people are looking for ways and support to either make new friends whether they're in a new city a new season they're just feeling like okay I have some current friendships I'm not really getting what I need and I'm seeking external sources of support or maybe they have some of the acquaintances right know you've talked about kind of like weaker ties people who you have looser connections with maybe they want to take that to the next level and strengthen some of those those friendships with potential acquaintances what are some ways people can do that okay yes I love this question so much because you know you do have people who are like I want to know how to make friends and some people are like I have no problem meeting people I have tons of people in my roster it's just I would like more depth I feel like they don't know me and so having the skill to move from acquaintance to deep friends is is super important so first I want to say you know make sure you've identified the right people you want to go deep with because some of us are trying to do that with people who either don't have the availability they don't share the same friendship goals so to your point earlier about you know how you know some people are intentional about friendship and they're prioritizing it right now others are you know it's on the back burner and they push it to the margins of their life and they kind of reduce it to something recreational when you need something to do on the weekend so your friendship goals don't even align so even identifying okay who are the people I want to be intentional about elevating to the next level in hopes that it would be reciprocal would be important so you're not setting yourself up for hurt feelings okay um but then there are three things that help us to have depth in a friendship and I got this framework from Shasta Nelson who's kind of like an OG in the Friendship space but she argues that we need positivity consistency and vulnerability to bring it from surface to depth so you know I know it's you know starting with positivity yes it's really um important to have people we can vent to like that's one of the benefits okay I have my girls and I can be like can I just be awful for a second please like can I have two minutes but when I zoom out how many of our interactions are chronic complaining venting how many because the Gman um who do research on relationships found that successful relationships have a positivity to negativity ratio of 5 to one so because of how heavily negative exchange is weigh on us we're going to need five positive to kind of override that so that's the first thing and if we're always do I even really know you or are you just kind of like my venting buddy okay the second thing for depth is that consistency so do how often do I see you right um one thing I say here is that you know I know sometimes when we're besties people say to me like oh me and my bestie only talk two times a year and we are and I'm like that's cool I get it I will also offer that sometimes you run the risk of you really only know what she chooses to self-report to you twice a year so that's fine I think maybe that speaks to y'all's chemistry but do I really know you and I've coached women who have told me like health things they got going on and I'm like so how do your friend show up for you and that oh they don't know you know I'm I you know I don't tell them that it's like wow okay and then finally vulnerability would be super important which I know you know you've talked about and we've talked about super important um just being open and feeling comfortable taking a risk of rejection so you risk being rejected but you also risk finding people who accept you and important too so having those three things to to get a little more depth um would be really important positivity consistency vulnerability so helpful as you were talking I was thinking through examples I've had on both ends I'm like oh I know I've had friendships in the past where all we would do is get together and [ __ ] about everything and it didn't friendships didn't get much stronger than that because we just come together this would usually be work friends I also have this theory that a lot of work friendships are trauma bonds but that's a that's another episode I see that I can see that that's another episode uh consistency I think is also another really important one and I have had a lot of personal realizations where I thought you know I don't want to have a ton of friendships where we get together two two or three times a year and I'm catching them up on the events I want people who are a part of the events I don't want to have every time we talk be a recap I want you to be a part of what's been going on and that's it's been a really big mindset shift for me over the past few years that when I started prioritizing that I've started feeling a lot more satisfied in my friendships interesting yeah I mean shared experiences are important and and um I don't know there are just so many things that we have that would have us believe we staying in touch because I'll be like oh I watch your stories every day like you're my girl I know what's going on with your life but like I want to do life with you like I want to experience new places with you I want to chat for an extended period of time somewhere you know so it does require people again to those friendship goals who are like yes I'm willing to do it with you and I too am no longer satisfied with with the you know quarterly Recaps um so I love that for you and I think it's important for women to get to a place where they're like okay what can I do to fold that in now one thing that I've offered because especially for women in their mid-30s to 40s uh the research tells us that we have the least amount of leisure time than any other generation and again it goes kind of back to what we said before you know we're in our Prim so we're probably hustling at work you might have young children to care for you might have aging parents you're caring for you're starting to get to that you know um you know season and so we have a lot going on so we have less time to chill than other Generations so it feels difficult sometimes like time is the thing I hear people cite most of like I mean I would see my friends more but and so this sounds kind of corny but uh one thing I could help is something called a friendship ritual so you know one of the things that gets in the way is is constantly doing the mental labor of like you I mean you know there are jokes like okay can you do September 7th at 2 doing that dance is exhausting so how can we help bake consistency into the culture of this friendship so whether that looks like okay every Friday at 10 we do our 15minute catchup our FaceTime whatever you know every first Tuesday of the month let's do the trivia night that's kind of like our thing but how can we put an aspect of our friendship on autopilot so I know whatever's going on I'm going to see you and it also adds a layer of security to the friendship as well so I think kind of baking those things in helps us to clock those hours that are essentially required to get closer I love that I love the idea of a ritual actually last week on the podcast or the week before this aired Our Guest had said that with one of her friends she their friendship was at its strongest because every week they had a standing date to go grocery shopping together oh we all have to grocery shop we all have to do it every week might as well do it together so they would get together they would grocery you know they would ride to the store together they would chat they would grocery shop together that was their quality time every week and it doesn't have to be a big to-do girls trip Instagram birthday dinner oh my God high maintenance thing yes I love that so much one because to your point when it's something you've got to do anyway invite them to come with you it's not as sexy as the hours long brunches but if the goal is I want to clock some hours with you that might be how it looks is to have those friends you can run errands with I also love that because a lot of people say I want to you know see my friends more but I don't have the money to drop $100 a weekend on catching up and so it's very practical too that that example of the running errand together I think that's terrific yeah I had a I had the seed planted for that there was this episode of and just like that like the Sex in the City you know it's controversial because it's not as good as the original but there was one episode where Carrie I think she like dropped her laptop or something and needed to go to the Apple store and then she brought her friend to the Apple Store with her to get the new laptop and I'm like I could do that yeah I could I could bring my friend to the farmer or I could go with my friend to help her pick out things at the farmers market if she needs it like oh it's a whole new perspective that yeah we can do that it can be easy yeah it can it really can be easy and that's the thing as I always say you know I think as adults we do say you know I don't have the time to hang out but when we say hang out in our brains the image we're pairing with that is late nights out or hours long brunches and if that's how you see like that's the imagery that's associated with hanging out you're going to continue to say I don't have time for that but at some point we do have to rethink what it looks like it's the come with me to pick up my kids come with me to Target and once we realize oh I actually have lot to those moment we'll see there's so much I mean there's so much opportunity that's just makes me so excited yes it's everyone's homework run an errand with your friends go to Target with your besties yes literally yesterday me and my friend were talking about making a a Costco run together cuz we're like we each have something each other needs I have a Costco card youf car I think we can help each other I I think we can work together here yes and it's and it's just that simple y exactly so what about making new friends and just establishing bonds with brand new people yeah so that's the number one question I get and um normally it comes with some kind of qualifier so people are like well how do I make friends as a new mom college grad I'm in a new city I hope that shows us we will always be having to make new friends so starting right there because some of us you know I hear people say I just feel like I should have like met my people and and we're stopping with that like I should have met my PE you're always going to be making new friends so we might as well adopt the skill of getting it done because you're going to do it again when you get older and your kids leave the nest and now you got to do it again um so so if anybody's in that season I want them to feel totally validated um so a couple things I'll give you three things uh the first first is get comfortable leveraging technology now Jin's very comfortable with this they grew up in a world where they haven't known life without the internet so they're more comfortable with the idea of being online and looking for friends I think others are getting more open to that but you know there are apps like Bumble for friends where people are I I like to say almost Expediting the process of finding your people especially if you work unconventional hours so I know a lot of um nurses who have been clients have told me like oh I found my people there because maybe can't fall into the fold of a traditional hangout at the bar or hang out at the gym kind of situation so they can kind of look for friends at the time that's available to them or when people are in a new city and they're like I'm looking for more diversity I don't know where people like me are then you can go to one concentrated space so people are getting more comfortable you know leveraging apps like Bumble for friends I think another thing that's really helpful is to I always say contact your super connectors so these are people who like like thrive on making introductions right like the girl who's like oh Tina you should meet my girl Tiffany like that girl okay that girl so even if she's not your friend but you just know of her there's no shame around reaching out texting dming and saying like um hey I'm trying to get more plugged in and I thought of you because you know you're always out and about and into something fun and I was just wondering like do you know of any events around here that are worth checking out or you know any groups that I should look into there's no shame around that and the average person is flattered you considered them to help you out and who doesn't want to give their two cents and on the more positive possible end you might even get a plus one you know they might say oh my gosh yeah I'm in a book club you should come with me next month but you cannot get the need met if you will not make that need known so we got to stop with the whole I don't want to look clingy I don't want to look then how do we know how to help you and the last thing I would say is um to become a regular somewhere I know we often you know we like romanticized when we were younger it was so much easier well we were in the same space with the same people for like 9 hours a day friendships blossomed okay it was inevitable but right now we kind of have to like manufacture those opportunities for ourselves and so there's something known as the mere exposure effect and the idea is you tend to prefer things just because they're familiar to you so how can you use that to your advantage how can I work from the same coffee shop every Friday for two hours how can I you know walk my dog at the park you at the same time every day and I will say I know as women we have to be careful around having public routines but um how can I become a regular somewhere because then I see the same faces and I feel a little less intimidated to say like oh hey because I see you all the time on my walk um so I think those are three ways to help us kind of get it done but I'll end with this I think one mindset because those are tactical one mindset that I think will change the game for people is you have to adopt the identity of being a connector it cannot be some behaviors a set of behaviors you try out in moments of confidence that that's you doing something I know it sounds cheesy but as soon as you say like no I'm I'm a connector that is who I am then those behaviors are an extension of who you are so yes I'm going to initiate the text yes I'm going to be like girl do you want to come to Target without thinking oh I mean what if she's busy or I don't want to look of course I'm doing that's who I am and I think adopting that can be empowering and we'll start to realize how many opportunities we really have so good having both the mindset and the Tactical because they work together it's hard to have one without the other but I can't lie as more of a woo woo girly what you just said about the embodiment I'm like so so good so so good yeah you also made a really interesting point there because it sounds like you know what we're doing with things like the consistency you know repeat exposure is almost kind of mimicking what we did have easily in childhood which was being in a lot of the same spaces spending time with the same people which gave those relationships time to develop and Blossom and we may not naturally have that in our schedules like we did when we were younger just as an interesting way to think of it yeah and like I said like think about like if you had to look at the ingredients or the formula that was helping you make friends it was you were clocking hour together and there's research that shows that it takes about 34 hours to take someone from an acquaintance to a friend so how am I clocking hours with the girls who I've thought to myself oh she seems cool okay great next step is we got to do something together right so you know we saw the same people we spent a lot of time together we had shared experiences those were the ingredients we had maybe common struggles we talked about oh this teacher is so annoying we it's the same things but we do have to manufacture them a little bit and get strategic the way we would anything else I mean people are you you know looking up dating podcasts and dating books cuz they're like I need a strategy why do we still hold the idea that friendship should be like organic though like I mean come on it's the same thing okay what do I need to do to find some like-minded women and to create a relationship with them it's it's the same approach I couldn't agree more there's nothing wrong with being intentional about what you want it doesn't make it less valuable actually think it kind of makes it more valuable if you're intentional about it as opposed to just waiting for it to magically happen yes yes I cannot agree more yeah the whole like it has to be organic I mean I've done videos sometimes and you know most of the the comments will be positive I mean I'm not say all they saying anything crazy you know but every now and then there will be somebody who's like I'm not doing all that I'm not doing all that I don't have time for like all these scripts or like trying to like friendships just should be like natural and organic I'm not I'm not doing all that and I hear that what I choose to hear them saying is that like this feels like a lot of energy and a lot of work and I do want to validate a lot of us are burned out we capitalism okay we're burned out working all day answering emails we're burned out we're financially stressed I get it but there's learned loneliness that is happening and we're getting comfortable being alone just because you're getting comfortable doing it doesn't make it good for you so I'm not saying go out there and have parties every weekend but I'm saying how can I socialize my interests by just one degree all the things I'd be doing by myself who can I invite to share this moment with me that's all I'm saying and and sometimes that's all it takes um I'll end with this there's a a a survey the American time you survey that came out they found that in 2013 we were spending on average six hours a week with our friends we now spend about two hours a week with our friends and the decline started way before the pandemic so it's not like a 2020 thing we are opting to be alone and with the convenience of you know I can I don't have to go to the library I can get my books and my Kindle I don't have to go and get my food I can have a door Dash I get those conveniences I'm just encouraging people to think about the costs of convenience and what you are losing when you don't do those things and I don't know that's just a little rant but it can be done like the socializing can be done and it's not as hard as we think it is that was a fantastic rant a couple of those terms that you said I'm like can we underline you know bold italicize the cost of convenience because I think convenience can cost us a lot of things in so many ways be it friendships relationships Wellness mental health I just I I really liked that terminology I would also love to come back to what you just said which was learned loneliness what that what is learned loneliness for people who may not be familiar with the term yeah so I I did a video on this and it had like mixed responses because people were like I hear you but I'm still going to do what I do and I'm like I got you like I hear you but essentially it's when you get comfortable being lonely and there's all this data that shows that you know people haven't returned to pre-pandemic activities which I I get um I think it's something like 30% of people say it feels harder now to form relationships they don't know what to say to one another so you have all this data coming out that essentially says we think relationships are hard we'd prefer to spend time alone we think relationships are less important than they were before so like even our attitudes are changing and even though it's becoming more common doesn't mean it's beneficial so there's just I'm sorry there's just way too much research that draws a direct line between your social support and your physical mental and emotional health and the longest running study out of Harvard uh on happiness uh found that the number one thing that determines your physical wellness and your life satisfaction is the quality of your relationships nothing else they've been like I think the stud is still going over 80 years following people looking at every single thing it keeps coming back to that so I understand it's more comfortable sometimes to like leave the sweatpants on and Netflix I'm I'm totally going to do that okay but when am I seeing people having conversations sharing laughs exchanging ideas getting support for what I'm going through you cannot substitute that with anything else that's such an important point and and I'll say this just as an example for people um and and I read this in an article but I was like oh this is perfect but the same way you haven't worked out for a long time you're like oh God I got to like physically get up and and push past to gain some momentum it's the same thing so I get that we're comfortable doing our own thing on the couch how can you you know push past and be like okay let me call my girl or I was going to do this anyway let me invite them to come with me it it can be really that simple definitely yeah I love the idea of thinking of it almost like a muscle that we can strengthen again and I also really appreciate you highlighting that study really just how important important important social connection and support is for our overall health because I think when we think of our Wellness we tend to get really locked in on you know working out eating a certain way and we can almost isolate ourselves in that especially if you're in your glowup journey self-improvement journey we want to isolate ourselves in that and then reemerge as this new person in six months but no amount of exercise can replace feeling supported connecting with other people and I think that there's just room for all of it even if we need to get a little creative yes getting creative and and you know and I can already hear I know there are probably some people too who are like I don't know maybe they find themselves in that position because they've been hurt you know I I you know often hear people who are like you know well I tried the friends thing and people disappoint you or I put in more energy in other people and I hear that I totally hear that and I totally get how that would make anybody l motivated or optimistic about moving forward to that person I would also say that healing happens in community like you have to position yourself to have corrective experiences so if I've had people disappoint me I mean that's unfortunate that's something I have to work through but I won't see I will never experience people supporting me unless I put myself in the same position and give them a chance to show up for me and then it updates the data that like the story downloaded my brain like oh okay well I don't know people I guess are okay you know so we have to put ourselves in those situations to kind of you know get the healing that we need definitely I know which is like such a not fun answer sometimes yeah the first time I read the book attached you know about the attachment Styles reading about you know are you anxiously attached are you avoidant whatever and being like Okay cool so how do I fix it and the answer is like find a securely attached person I was ready to throw the book I was like I need my six I thought you were going to tell me t itics what do you mean you know but it's true it is true that that we can only heal so much in isolation speaking a little bit to maybe those situations where people have experienced friend hurt or uh maybe navigating a friendship breakup because I know that that can be a really devastating occurrence for some people do you have any kind of advice for how people can navigate those experiences without letting it Harden them to the potential of of new friendship and Connections in the future I love how you ask that especially that word Harden them because that's oh my God that's so what's happening and it makes me um really sad but I get it um yeah so friendship breakups are going to happen I think they're startling uh because you might enter into a romantic situation knowing that it's possible this might not work out might not be the one but you very rarely go into a friendship thinking I don't know this might not work out you're just you're just in it you're like oh my God at this girl she's so cool like you're not thinking but if this doesn't work out we just lean into it so for that reason alone it feels very disruptive when it's over because I never spent time entertaining the idea it would be over so I I've got to work through mentally wrapping my mind around the loss right I think it's also difficult because there are fewer spaces I mean they're growing but fewer spaces to even grieve that you know I often make the joke like if you're hanging out with a bunch of girls and you're waiting on a friend to arrive you know and and you tell the group okay you guys be careful tonight because she's going through a breakup so she's a little sensitive everyone would be like totally get it if I said she's going through a friend breakup right now so just be we'd be like I'm sorry what like okay and the things that we tend to tell each other to help each other heal is well she was a fake friend anyway like you can get new friends girl we can replace her it's dismissive but with a love interest we like oh my God that sucks girl like take all the time you need so I say all that to say what makes it difficult is not having spaces to grieve it and to feel embarrassment that we can't get friendship right what does that say about me and it feels so much like failure especially when you have people bragging about having friendships they've had for decades which is a beautiful thing there's something very special about having friends who have seen you through like all these Evol you know versions of yourself but when we are using it as a measure of success if for you relationship success equals longevity then by extension you'll feel like a failure when it's over so at some point you need to kind of rethink what does friendship success look like for me is that we showed each other love in the best way we knew during college and I'm so I thank God for your companionship where I would have got through and and I can be grateful for that so just the reframe in terms of like two tacticals to move forward one is it sounds corny but the research shows if you can identify what you're grateful for during the Friendship you'll be better positioned to move forward without bitterness and resentment so again sounds cheesy maybe not for you if you're woo woo like I'm like journal and like burn your paper B black they might be into that if they like this podcast like you're speaking our language I'm like it's a little woo woo but you know so that's helpful okay you know I think she's you know she was kind of awful to me but you know I guess I wouldn't have gotten through that period without her I got to give her that you know or I guess she put me on to some things that that I need I got to give her that it just helps it helps um and then another thing is what are some of the things you've been avoiding or not leaning into because that friendship sucked you in you know are there Hobbies you put off or things you didn't pursue because I don't know maybe subconsciously you felt like it would pull you away like go explore those things now and I'm not saying replace her you can't replace her but what are things you've been putting off to keep that friendship on the on track now's your time to to pursue those people and to pursue those things and I think together those things will you know will allow us to move forward so good so so good that point that you made at the beginning about we go into romantic relationships knowing that a breakup is a possibility but we don't think that way about friendships I'd never thought about that before until you said it and I'm like oh that makes so much sense because we don't think that we don't make friends with a new person and be like can't wait to fall out with her here you know we don't think that we just think now this person is my friend and you know you just I think that's why for some people friendship breakups can be even more devastating than romantic breakups because yeah romantically there could be a part of you that is knows it's a possibility and it it is the natural order of things sometimes versus with friendships I don't think we are ever really expecting it until it starts to happen yeah no one's thinking that way and you know and I know compare like men and women a lot and it's just because I specialize in the research on women's friendships but I do think it's interesting that you know uh the research finds that women tend to integrate their friends into their lives to the degree of a sibling men to the degree of a cousin so naturally it's probably going to be painful for me to lose you because you are my sister I and friendship is also like at the center of our identity work so I mean I'm not afraid to say like part of the reason I feel like I am funny and cool and interesting is because my friends think so so it makes me look at myself like okay maybe I am cool because they see that in me you know what I'm saying and so when it's over you can't help but to think am I funny and interesting and lovable if if she will withdraw her friendship from me what does that say about me but with a romantic partner we can dismiss it as like oh whatever he's not the one plenty of fish in the sea and so there's just something about especially with a with another woman who sees me and then opting to withdraw I can't help but to question what I lack and so you know I just want to validate the woman who's like still torn up over a loss from six years ago I think that's totally normal and to allow yourself to grief it it is a lot of grief to to feel for sure yeah thank you for that oh God yeah it's just it's of those things where it's like we've we've all experienced our own versions of it and just navigate the best we can for sure yeah I do also want to give people a bit of hopefulness I know our audience primarily Millennial and jenz so our listeners mostly 20s and 30s and I think for people in their 20s I mean the 20s are just a rough decade it's just as like everything feels like a crisis Everything feels like it's on fire like you said that mid 20s time is a weird time for friendships I also want to give people a little bit of encouragement that you may not have that proximity to friends to make friends like you did when you were younger but the cool thing about being an adult and making friends as an adult is that you can form friendships over things Beyond proximity it can be shared interest shared values Common Ground versus when you're a kid it's like oh you're on my team you're in my class you live in my neighborhood we're friends yeah but then how how compatible are you really is it proximity or is it a genuine Bond and I think the cool thing about being an adult which I want people to feel hopeful about as they Embark in new friendships is like you get to choose what you bond with people over and that actually could lead to Stronger bonds because you're connecting over something stronger than just we're in the same class and that's it like you could have more in common and that could be a good thing yeah that's so I I love that you made that point that's you're totally right um that and now proximity Is Like A A A bonding agent and you know research does find that people who tend to be close like I see you all the time you become my friend that's why as adults like the number one place we make work as adult or make friends as an adult is in the workplace just CU you're next to me you're here so that is true but it can work to our advantage the opposite way so if I find somebody I like for other reasons or I want to draw closer to them for other reasons I have to work to increase our proximity like to see you more you know what I'm saying so if I know that's a bonding agent how can I use it for people who aren't so easily accessible to me and we can get creative how we can make that happen but yeah I love that point and you know I often offer to people who are like I don't really know where to even find different people unless they're just you know people I just see so I'm like well I guess I'll be friends with you you know is to you know do this exercise is think about you know how you would complete the statement I am blank like whatever that descriptor of your identity would be so for me I might say I am black I am a woman I'm an entrepreneur I'm a Christian I'm a whatever those things are how are you Community for each one of those things to affirm your identity so I need to be around other black women because they just I mean shorthand they get it okay you know I need to be around other moms sometimes so I can be like man I'm kind of like struggling I I I don't know I'm falling short I need to be around you know people who share my faith sometimes because you know we share similar worldviews so if you're like I don't know where to start that could be one way to know the direction of where to lean into to form bonds based on different things that is such a great exercise that is your homework everybody I also just love through this conversation I'm like oh I I feel the teacher I feel it and that is so good that exercise of identifying your identities and the identities that you want to form bonds with other people over I'm like I know I'm doing it in my journal tonight yeah so I want y'all to do it too it's helpful it's just something tactical to help us see all that is available to us instead of scrolling social and seeing everybody else look looking so plugged in and being like Oh my God I'm so behind so I just feel like something like that can help us kind of see okay I have some power and authority in my situation let me figure out what I need and what I need to do to access that so good so good Danielle this was all so helpful I love how we had tactical takeaways I love how we had mindset shifts that people can apply so before we wrap up I just kind of want to see what you're looking forward to this year what your plans are for 2024 and tap in yeah so 2024 is super exciting because this is the year that my book comes out so my book comes out in May it's titled fighting for our friendships and it's just all about you know helping us understand the mechanics of woman's friendships along with tacticals to navigate the day-to-day business of being friends and so I like to tell people I am not pitching this book as like this is the book I hope you have tons of friendship books on your bookshelf I would love for this to be one of them but I hope that you have a lot of literature so you know to the point we made at the beginning of the the show about a lack of literature got me into this I hope women are like you know what I'm pouring so much into being a better parent student girlfriend what are you doing with the same energy to be a better friend and have better friendships and I'm just hoping that you know some of what I'm doing is getting us a little bit a little bit closer so I'm so excited um for this year spefic specifically for that amazing it absolutely is we'll put a link in the show notes so that folks can pre-order so when youall pre-order now then you'll get it as soon as it comes out in May so excited for it yeah I appreciate you yeah congratulations such an exciting thing yeah are you going to be going on tour we're looking into that like how to bring the experience around um because I know a lot of times you go to a book thing and they read an exert from the book and everybody claps and like yes that would be amazing for my ego but we're also considering things like maybe speed friending and and taking that around and you know that way you can and it's it's an experience so um so we'll see what's what's happening you can you can stay tuned and we'll see what's to come amazing well yes people need to follow you for updates because I feel like you doing events supporting your book is the perfect place for people to make friends yeah yeah I encourage people I mean if you're trying to to make more friends it might be speed friending at one of my events and and on Instagram I'm at friend forward um or you know we mentioned earlier you know Bumble for friends I love hearing success stories there so that's a great place to to get it going to but I appreciate you for facilitating a moment to have this conversation and pour so much attention into it and I also really respect the way you are so responsive to this community's needs and what they share with you what they're interested in and and then you feed it back to them so I appreciate you for for making time to have this conversation and allowing me to like lend my voice to it thank you so much well I really love your work and it was an honor to have you here thank you so much so one more time where people can find you where they can listen to your podcast yeah everything lives at better female friendships. okay perfect so we'll have that Linked In the show notes thank you for joining me thank you for having me thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of balance black R podcast if you enjoyed this episode please make sure you leave us a rating and a review on Apple podcast or Spotify it really really helps the show it is how we get new listeners and it's what helps us book our amazing guests we're always trying to provide a five-star experience here so if you enjoyed it please leave us five stars and we're also now on YouTube Beyonce may be withholding the visual but I am not so if you like balance black girl make sure you subscribe to the balance blackgirl YouTube channel for new video episodes every Tuesday thanks for tuning in and I'll see you next [Music] week

Channel: Balanced Black Girl

Views: 1,699

Keywords: balanced black girl, balanced black girl podcast, friends, friendship, friendship goals, bestie, girl dinner, girl podcast, black content creator, black woman content, black women content, girlfriend, Danielle Bayard Jackson, Danielle Jackson, Dear Media, Dear Media Podcast

Id: klkS4_lNOjM

Length: 55min 44sec (3344 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 13 2024