[ Applause ] >> Madeleine Albright:
Very nice. [ Applause ] >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. [ Applause ] You ever thought of running? >> Good afternoon. On behalf of the Library of
Congress, it's my privilege to introduce one of the nation's
leading philanthropists, a tireless advocate for
reading and literacy, and the co-chairman of the National Book
Festival, David Rubenstein. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Thank you. So I guess -- so, thank you. So I can call you Madeleine. We worked together in the White
House many, many years ago. So Madeleine, you just came from the funeral service
for Senator McCain. Could you talk a
little bit about that and your relationship with him? >> Madeleine Albright: Yes. Well, first of all, I'm
delighted to be here and delighted to
be with you, David. We have known each other for -- >> David M. Rubenstein: A while. >> Madeleine Albright: -- many years, before you were
who you are and were settled. >> David M. Rubenstein: My
hair was dark then, but -- >> Madeleine Albright: But it was really a very moving
service, because it had so many of the themes that Senator
McCain has really been identified with in terms
of service to country, both in a military way and
also a civilian, and his time, and the tributes
really spoke to that. It was incredibly well-planned,
but what was so fascinating was that obviously Senator
McCain planned all this, but he had asked President
W. Bush and President Obama to be the speakers, two
people who defeated him, and they made comments about
the fact, isn't it interesting that they were asked, and they
talked about what that meant, and it just was a very,
very moving service in so many different ways, and
the music, and everybody cried to "Danny Boy" when
Renee Fleming sang it, and so many different things. My relationship with Senator
McCain was one that was based on not just our friendship
but our value system. He has been -- first of all,
I'm chairman of the board of an organization called the
National Democratic Institute, and he's chairman of the
National Republican Institute, and what happened was
these are organizations that were started
by Ronald Reagan. In the early 80s, he had
gone to speak in England at the Parliament and said that
democracies were not real good about defending themselves or explaining themselves vis a
vis communism, so he came back and started the Endowment
for Democracy with these two organizations. So the first time
that Senator McCain and I did something together
actually was in June of 1990. I was born in Czechoslovakia,
and it was right after the Velvet Revolution,
and it was the first elections that were held, and we were
there as election observers, and really, it was my -- so
much fun was the main word, in terms of showing a great
senator my hometown of Prague, and Paul Simon sang,
and I took him -- I took Senator McCain on
Madeleine's tour of Prague, but basically, we then
discovered how much we both cared about supporting
democracy -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- in countries that had been
under totalitarianism, and that was something that really was our major
source of working together. >> David M. Rubenstein:
So were you -- have you been surprised at the
enormous outpouring of sorrow at his passing, or are
you not surprised at it? >> Madeleine Albright: Both,
frankly, because knowing him and knowing what a role he
played, I'm not surprised. What I am surprised
is how it has turned into something much larger, and
I think that that is what came through at the funeral also -- is that what Senator McCain
was representing was what many of us have thought is
the best of America, which are people
that understand -- [ Applause ] -- the importance of service,
the importance of serving with honor, the importance of
caring about what people think, the importance of our diversity
and America's value system and America's role in the world, and so all those things have
been reflected in his life, but also in a lot of
the celebrations -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- and
I think it was really strong, obviously, at the funeral, but I think it is
larger than I expected. I expected a lot of honor
to a senator with that kind of a record, but this
has now, I think, taken off in a much larger way. >> David M. Rubenstein: So I
notice you've written a book about pins that you wore when you were secretary
of state, and -- >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. >> David M. Rubenstein: -- I
notice you're wearing one now. What does that pin symbolize? >> Madeleine Albright: Well, this is obviously the
American eagle, and I wanted to wear something
patriotic for the funeral. I debated about an anchor
because of his Navy service, but then I decided that
it was larger than just -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- his Navy service, so this is my most
vibrant eagle. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
But I was going to -- what I have been doing, and I
decided not to do it today -- when I've been talking about my
books, I've been wearing a pin, and it's mercury,
because I'm trying to deliver a message
about fascism. So you know, today it -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- seemed more appropriate
to wear the eagle. >> David M. Rubenstein: Well,
we're going to -- let's go on. Let's talk about fascism, and you've written a
new book on fascism. Why did you decide to
write a book about fascism? >> Madeleine Albright: Well,
a number of different reasons. First of all, I think that
I felt that it is a term that is just being thrown around without people
understanding what it is. Anybody we disagree
with is a fascist. Then the teenage boy
who's not allowed to drive the car calls
his father a fascist, and I was trying to figure
out how one defines something that is raising its head
more and more internationally and really trying to explain
what fascism is, and the reason that I wanted to write it is
frankly because of my own story. I was born in Czechoslovakia
in 1937, and as a result of agreements made in Munich in
1938 by the British and French with the Germans and Italians,
the country I was born in was sold down the river, and
in March '39, the Nazis marched in and fascism took
over that country. My father was a Czechoslovak
diplomat, and we spent the war in England because he with
the government in exile, but I could see what fascism
had done to Europe, and I wanted to write about it from a
personal perspective as well as from a warning, because
there are things going on around the world where
there are elements of fascism that I think people need to
understand what it's about, and it's not just an
epitaph to be thrown around. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. Well, let's go through this. In your book, you
talk about the person who actually first used
the phrase fascism. That actually was
Mussolini, Benito Mussolini. Where did he get
the phrase fascism? >> Madeleine Albright: Yes. >> David M. Rubenstein:
What does that mean? >> Madeleine Albright:
Well, first of all, I decided that what I wanted to
do about the book was to put it into historical context so that
people could really understand what it's about, and Mussolini
was the first fascist, and it really came from a term
of elm rods, which are kind of sticks, and an axe,
which had been an emblem that the Romans had used, and these elm rods are called
fasces, and so this group of people around Mussolini
took it as their emblem, and it's the toughness
and going back to Caesar. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. Now as you point
out in your book, Mussolini came along
before Hitler, and Mussolini was a politician, but not all that
successful initially. He had some problems. Didn't come from a wealthy
family, particularly. How did he rise up to get to the
point where he could rule Italy? Did he win an election that got
him to be the head of Italy? >> Madeleine Albright: Well, let
me go back a little bit on this, because I think that one of the
things that I wanted to look at was what is the environment
that produces fascism, and without sounding like
a professor, which I am, is that really, the
historical context is that there certainly have been
a lot of disruptions in society, some in the late 19th
century, early 20th century, due to the Industrial Revolution
and people being displaced in their jobs, and then
kind of a sense of division in societies, the
haves and have-nots, was arising in a number
of different countries, and then World War One also had
a real input into all of that, and Italy particularly. You know, we all make fun of
Italians, Italian governments, for a long time,
because they've had so many different prime
ministers and party messes. They had it all along, and
Italy throughout the early 20th century had a lot of
different governments, and then what happened
was they had actually -- -- fought on the side of the
Allies during World War One, but had not really benefitted
from it in any way in terms of having alliances or
being treated with respect, and so Mussolini was somebody
that came from a poor family, who was somebody that, from
everything that I read, more and more about him,
actually very charismatic and charming, but he was an
outsider, and all of a sudden, he in many ways fit in to
try to resolve the situation of all these divisions that
were taking place in Italy. In Italy, he initially was a
leftist, and they were trying to figure out how to deal with
their various social problems, and he got a group of people
around him that became more and more politicized, and
he identified with them as an outsider to be able
to bring some kind of order to things, and so this group
of people surrounded him, and he was, as I said,
very charismatic. This is the part that
blew my mind, frankly. He came to power
constitutionally, because what happened was
King Emmanuel of Italy felt that the coalition governments
there were not working together well enough, that they needed
to solve some of the problems that were coming out of World
War One, and he asked Mussolini to take over the government,
and so that's the part. He didn't seize power
in that particular way, but he was so interesting,
David, because he did say he needed
to drain the swamp in Italian. He's the first one
who said that. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. He said it in Italian,
though, right? >> Madeleine Albright:
He said it in Italian. In a lot of the things I read, he thought he had all the
answers to everything, that he was a stable
genius, and -- [ Applause ] >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. So what year did he
actually take over? >> Madeleine Albright:
Well, he took over kind of like in the early 30s. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Thirties, right. >> Madeleine Albright:
Early 30s. >> David M. Rubenstein:
So actually, when he was running the
government for a while, did he do things that
made him more popular than he had been before
he even took office? >> Madeleine Albright:
Yes, he did. I mean he organized things well. He did make the trains run on
time, but he really did help in terms of some
of the stability that people felt was
necessary in Italy. He, however, ultimately overdid and did not deliver,
and he was hung. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Ultimately, he was captured, and what happened to him? >> Madeleine Albright:
Well, he was seized, and then they hung him. >> David M. Rubenstein:
He and his mistress -- >> Madeleine Albright: Yes. >> David M. Rubenstein:
-- were hung up. >> Madeleine Albright: But the
best quote in the whole book is from Mussolini, and
he said something like "if you pluck a chicken
one feather at a time, nobody notices." So in societies where a lot of
feather-plucking is going on -- those are two words that are
hard to say quickly together -- there often is not a notice -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- of what is going on. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. So ultimately, he met his
demise, and let's talk about somebody else who came
along a little bit later, Adolph Hitler. How did Hitler rise up to power? Did he win an election
by majority vote? >> Madeleine Albright: No, but what is interesting is
Hitler succeeds Mussolini, and there was a relation. Initially, from my reading, I
found that Hitler admired some of the things that
Mussolini had been doing. Hitler came from also a family
that was kind of on the outside. He was from parents that were
kind of failed civil servants, and he also was somebody
that seemed as if he could not get along
in the particular society. He tried to be an architect,
a number of different aspects. He also then, because
Germany was a country after World War One
that was "punished," I think for good reason, but
with the Versailles Treaty and reparations and not
treated with respect, and so there were a lot of
problems within Germany itself. They also suffered very
much from the Depression, and they had set up a democratic
republic called the Weimar Republic, but they were
not capable also of dealing with the various issues
that were out there, and something similar happened. There was a very reputable and
well-known German statesman, von Hindenberg, who
all of a sudden -- also, the coalition
system wasn't working, and he ultimately asked
Hitler to take over by -- the parliament there
ultimately agreed to it, and I think that's the part. I mean, one of the great parts about writing a book is the
research that one has to do about it and learning a number
of things about how Mussolini and Hitler came to power. In fact, just the way
you've asked the questions, is there was not a revolution. They were asked by the
constitutional head of state, King Emmanuel and
von Hindenberg, to take over at a time when the
government itself was not able to deal with the divisions -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- and
the dislocations and the anger about how people were treated
after the end of World War One. >> David M. Rubenstein:
But King Victor Emmanuel and von Hindenberg both
underestimated Mussolini and Hitler's ability to change
the government and to do things that were never anticipated;
is that correct? >> Madeleine Albright:
Absolutely, and also being able to -- they were obviously
different, and I think that what Mussolini
was able to do was to kind of use drama and his
capability and his charisma to motivate people
to follow him. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: And
Hitler also used propaganda. There's a long history in
terms of the kinds of things that he did, but Hitler added
one whole element to all of this, which was
finding a group of people that were scapegoats
for all of this. How had all this
happened in Germany? Whose fault was it? And it was the fault
of the Jews, which is where the
antisemitic part then leading to the Holocaust was something. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: Nobody
can be compared to Hitler, and Hitler took some of the
elements that Mussolini had put into place and then added
this horrific aspect -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- to it that made it not
just fascist but Nazis. >> David M. Rubenstein: Well, let's talk about one
other person you write about in your book, Franco,
who took over as more or less a dictator in Spain. How did he come to power? >> Madeleine Albright: Well,
Spain also was having all kinds of economic issues and
problems and agricultural issues and how they dealt with some
of the colonies they had, and he was a military person,
and he also was kind of asked to take over at a time that
things were not working properly for the people, and then what
was interesting about Spain that made it a little bit
different was the whole Spanish Civil War, in terms of being
the theater where the fights between the communists, the
left wing and the right wing, took place, and Franco
was able also to benefit from all the dislocation
that came from that. So I think the thing
all these people have in common is they take advantage
of a economic situation that is disruptive,
that creates a group of haves versus the have-nots. >> David M. Rubenstein: Now
after the war, World War Two, is over, your father and your
family go back to Czechoslovakia and think you're going
to live there now because Hitler is gone. What happened in Czechoslovakia
after you got back? >> Madeleine Albright:
Well, the thing that -- I think just to add a variety
of complications to this, what happened -- Czechoslovakia
was a country that was founded after 1918, and as a
result of World War One and the Austro-Hungarian
Empire collapses, and Czechoslovakia was
founded in that way thanks to, as the Czechs pronounce it, Woodrow Wilson and
the 14 points. It was a country that was
based on national identity, and I have to tell this,
because the first president of Czechoslovakia was a man
called Tomas Garrigue Masaryk. He had married an American -- her name was Charlotte
Garrigue -- and at the end of
the 19th century, he took her maiden name
as his middle name. Not a lot of men do that. Then also the Czechoslovak
constitution was based on the American constitution,
with one major difference. It had equal rights
language in it in 1918, and so this small country in the
middle of Europe was in fact, and I say this with some
pride, the only real democracy in central and eastern
Europe, but what happened was that even though it was
founded on national identity, it had a small German
minority in the north, and they were trying to figure
out how to deal with them when that minority was energized
by a man called Konrad Henlein, who was an apostle of or
a disciple of Hitler's. And so what happened was that
there were agreements made that the west would
defend Czechoslovakia if in fact the Germans
took over. The Russians, -- -- or the Soviet Union -- and by the way, Czechoslovakia
didn't have a problem with Russians. Not like Poland, where the
borders were too close -- and what had happened was
that the Russians had promised to come in and help
Czechoslovakia if it were invaded
if the French lived up to their obligations
to do so. The French didn't, and so the
Russians had an excuse, -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- and so during the war, when the Nazis had taken over
and the government in exile was in London, the Russians,
in the meanwhile -- and the communists were
really the fighters -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- in Czechoslovakia. So after the war, and too
complicated to discuss all of it, but what happened: In
the first Czechoslovak elections in 1946, the communists actually
won, and so what happened within a -- until February 1948, there was a coalition
government, and there were going
to be new elections. The Russians were trying to
figure out how to take over all of eastern Europe, and
they were going to do it by elections in Czechoslovakia. They saw they were going to
lose, and so there was a coup. So what happened was
my father had come back to Czechoslovakia after the war. He was made ambassador
to Yugoslavia. The little girl in the national
costume that gives flowers at the airport -- that's
what I did for a living, and then he was about
to get a new assignment, because he was a
professional diplomat, to be Czechoslovakia's
representative on a new commission to do
with India and Pakistan over cashmere, and he was
looking forward to that when the communists took over. He didn't want to work
for the communists. His best friends in
Belgrade were the British and American ambassadors,
and they said, "If your country's just
had a coup, if you resign, they'll name some communist
and nothing will get done, so why don't you report to us?" and my father agreed to do that, and we came to the
United States -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: As a
result of that assignment, my father defected and
asked for political asylum. >> David M. Rubenstein: Was it
hard to get political asylum? Were immigrants welcome then? >> Madeleine Albright:
Yes, they were. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: And I do
have to say the following thing. My father used to say
this on a regular basis. He said when we were in
England during the war -- and by the way, I was
there all through the Blitz and everything, and
so my father said, "The British were very nice. They said, 'We're so sorry
your country's been taken over by a terrible dictator. You're welcome here. What can we do to help you
and when are you going home?'" When we came to the
United States, people said, "We're so sorry your
country's been taken over by a terrible system. You're welcome here. What can we do to help you and
when will you become a citizen?" >> David M. Rubenstein: Yeah. >> Madeleine Albright: And my father said that's
what made America different -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: --
from every other country. [ Applause ] >> David M. Rubenstein:
As a little girl, I assume you spoke Czech. >> Madeleine Albright: I did. >> David M. Rubenstein:
And you still speak it? >> Madeleine Albright:
I do speak Czech. >> David M. Rubenstein:
But your English. You have no non-American accent, so how did you get
this American -- >> Madeleine Albright:
Oh, well, now let me -- so what happened is
I grew up bilingual, and so I spoke Czech
and English. Then we went to Yugoslavia when
my father was the ambassador, so I certainly could
understand -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: -- Serbian, and then
because I had -- I had a governess because my
father didn't want me going to school with communists,
so I got ahead of myself. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: And
in Europe, you can't go to the next level until you're
a certain age, so they decided to send me to Switzerland
to learn French. I went to -- I didn't
speak any French. They wouldn't feed me unless I
asked for it in French, so -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Jeez. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- I learned French. So then we came to the United
States on November 11th, 1948, and we lived on Long
Island, and I went to school, and it was about
to be Thanksgiving, and I heard somebody -- you
know, we gather together, et cetera -- "osking" [phonetic
spelling] for God's blessing, and I thought, "Who's osking?" and I was osking, and
from then on, I asked. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright:
And so I have -- >> David M. Rubenstein:
We got it. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- an American accent. >> David M. Rubenstein: But
your father eventually moved to Denver. He became a professor at
the University of Denver. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. >> David M. Rubenstein: And he
had a prized student who was -- >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. Well, I have to -- this
story is so unbelievable. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: What happened was my father
did defect, and he asked for political asylum,
and at that stage, the Rockefeller Foundation
was finding jobs for central European
intellectuals or whatever, so they found him a job at
the University of Denver, and we had no idea
where Denver was, and my parents bought a car. We started driving across
America, and my mother said, "They say Denver's the mile-high
city, but we're not going up, so maybe we're going
the wrong direction." Anyway, we end up in Denver,
and my father starts teaching at the University of Denver,
and he became a pretty big deal. He wrote books and was
a popular professor. He died in 1977, and there were
lots of flowers and tributes, and among them was a ceramic
pot in the shape of a piano with just some leaves in it. So I said to my mother,
"Where did this come from?" and she said, "It's from your
father's favorite student, Condoleezza Rice," so. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: Her
parents had an association -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: --
with the University of Denver. She was a music major,
hence the piano, and she had to take an
international relations course or distribution -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- or something. She took one from my
father, and he persuaded her to become an international
relations major. She then went to Notre Dame,
where she got her master's, and she was working on her PhD
with my father when he died. So this African-American
music major from Alabama wrote
her dissertation on the Czechoslovak military. >> David M. Rubenstein: Wow. >> Madeleine Albright: So then
in 1987, when I was working for my long list of losing
democratic presidential candidates, I was working
for Michael Dukakis and finding foreign
policy advisors. So I didn't know Condi, but I knew she was a
Soviet expert women taught on the west coast,
so I called her up, and I told her what I was doing,
that I was looking for experts, and she said, "Madeleine, I
don't know how to tell you this, but I'm a Republican," and I
said, "Condi, how could you be? We have the same father." But it is a remarkable story, -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Wow. >> Madeleine Albright: -- that this Czechoslovak refugee
diplomat basically trained two secretaries of state. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Whatever happened to her? Do you know? >> Madeleine Albright: ?No. We're very good friends. >> David M. Rubenstein: So let's
go back to your life story. So you go to Wellesley,
graduate, and in those days, when you graduated
from Wellesley, most women were not
expected to be secretary of state, I assume, right. Probably not. So what did you do? What was your career/ >> Madeleine Albright: Well, let me just say I clearly
love foreign policy. We never had any choice at our
house talking about anything but history, diplomatic
history, or foreign policy. I was going to be a
journalist, but the thing that happened was our graduation
speaker was Neil McElroy, who was the secretary
of defense, because his daughter
was in our class, and he gave the commencement
speech in which -- we all remember it
slightly differently, but it basically was your
main duty is to get married and raise children,
preferably sons. The fact that we
didn't walk out -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: Anyway,
so I waited a really long time to get married, two
days after graduation. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: And I
did want to be a journalist. I'd been one of the
editors of my college paper, and my husband, while he
was in the Army in Missouri, I worked for a small paper in
Missouri, and then we go back to Chicago, where he already had
a job, and we're having dinner with his managing editor,
who looks at me and says, "So what are you
going to do, honey?" I said, "I'm going to
work to be journalist," and he said, "I don't think so. You can't work on the
same paper as your husband because of labor regulations," and even though there were
three other papers in Chicago at the time, he said, "And
you wouldn't want to compete with your husband, so go
find something else to do." It was, you know,
1960, and I saluted, and I found another job. I went to work for
Encyclopedia Britannica, which for the younger people
in the audience is a book. >> David M. Rubenstein: It
was the Wikipedia of its day. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah,
but what they did that was kind of fun was every year, they
would choose a set of articles to review, and that year, they
were geographical locations, and being a poli sci, they thought I could choose
the illustrations for that. So I did that, and then
it used to be newspapers, when they had a little space
at the bottom of columns, needed factoids, so I read
Encyclopedia Britannica, and I still remember things
like ostriches are voiceless, according to encyclopedia. But anyway, then what happened
was I was pregnant, and we moved to Long Island, and this was
before sonograms and everything, and I got very fat, and
the doctors kept saying, "You're fat. Do something," so I drank
horrible diet Metrecals and things like that and walked
around Long Island a lot, and I saw that somebody
was going -- that they were offering
a Russian course at Hofstra University, and I
thought this will never work, because I have to have the -- yeah, my child will
not be born yet. What happened was
I was having twins. They were born early. I had to leave them in the
hospital in the incubators, so I took Russian,
and that is how I kind of got back into studying. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Well, you ultimately worked on Capitol Hill for
Senator Muskie. >> Madeleine Albright: I did. >> David M. Rubenstein: How
did you happen to get that job? >> Madeleine Albright: Well,
what happened was that I had -- my whole life is a
series of accidents -- -- that actually worked out. So what happened was that I
was asked to become chairman of a school here in -- a chairman of the board of
a school here in Washington, and they put me in charge of
annual giving, and the person that was my parent
partner in this knew that I'd raised a lot of money. He was from the state of
Maine, and he was asked to put on the biggest fund-raising
dinner ever in Washington. It was really, really expensive. You'll love this,
David -- $125 a seat. So he asked me to
chair it, which I did, and that's how I got
to know Ed Muskie, and then I did fund-raising for
Ed Muskie, and ultimately, -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- he
asked me to come on as staff. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right,
so you work on Muskie's staff, and you did that for a
while, but ultimately, Jimmy Carter became president
of the United States, and Zbig Brzezinski became
his national security advisor, and you knew him from Columbia, because you had gotten
a degree at Columbia. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. He was my professor, yes. >> David M. Rubenstein:
So he asked you to come on the White House
staff and serve as the congressional liaison
for the national security staff. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. >> David M. Rubenstein: But
why would the national security staff need a congressional
liaison? >> Madeleine Albright:
It's all your fault. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. So the thing that happened -- Brzezinski had been my
professor, and he calls me in January whatever, '80. >> David M. Rubenstein: '77. >> Madeleine Albright: '77,
and he said, "Madeleine, perhaps you've heard I've
been named national security advisor," and I said, "Yes,
I have," and he said, "Well, can you find me a
place to live?" and said, "Jeez, Big, I
thought you were calling to offer me a job," and he said,
"No, I'm calling to ask you to find me a place to
live," which I did, and then two years later, we
had become really good friends, and he asked me to come and be a
congressional relations person. So thing that happened
-- I loved Ed Muskie, and I loved everything about
him, but he wasn't very modern in his language or his
comprehension of certain things. So I said I had this job
offer, and he said, "Madeleine, you know, a woman can't do
congressional relations," which I thought was
very disappointing. Anyway, I went to do
congressional relations, and I do have to
tell this story. Muskie was clearly embarrassed, and we then have a huge going
away party he gives for me, and he says, "I'm looking
out at my staff now, and I see that I have a
lot of women on my staff, but Madeleine was special
because she was the first one to give sex to the office,"
and I said, "Gender, gender." [ Laughter and Applause ] >> David M. Rubenstein:
Well, so. >> Madeleine Albright:
But I do want to say what happened,
actually, -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: -- is
that the NSC is not supposed to have a congressional
relations person, and as you know, the White House
has a whole congressional group to it, and one of the
things that was going on was the whole issue
about the Panama Canal and also a Middle East arms
sale, and Brzezinski felt that some of the White House
congressional people were not tuned enough into the national
security aspects of it, and so he asked me to come on,
and it was a fantastic job. I loved it. I sat in on everyone meeting
that President Carter had with members of Congress,
and I loved it, and I worked on all kinds of issues. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: And I was
known as somebody who knew less about more subjects than
anybody else in the government. >> David M. Rubenstein: Oh. >> Madeleine Albright:
You know, so I loved it. >> David M. Rubenstein:
So now in those days, it was pretty well known
that Zbig Brzezinski, the national security advisor,
and the secretary of state, Certainly Vance, didn't
get along, particularly in terms of their philosophy. Then Vance resigned after the
failed hostage rescue effort, and the next secretary of state
was a man named Edmund Muskie. >> Madeleine Albright: Right. >> David M. Rubenstein: So
you have your former boss as secretary, your current boss
as national security advisor. They maybe didn't
get along so well, so what was that job like then? >> Madeleine Albright:
Well, I have to tell you. It was very interesting, because
I really had stayed very, very good friends with Muskie
and was close to Brzezinski. So this really did happen. Muskie calls me up, and he says, "Your boss is just
such a show-off. It's so awful. Every time we're
in the Oval Office, he tells President Carter the
name of every tribe in Nigeria," and I said, "He's a professor. That's what they do." So then what happened was
Brzezinski called me up, and he said, "Your
former boss is impossible in principles meetings. All he does is ask questions,"
and I said, "He's a senator. That's what they do." But something that
I could not get over was Muskie finally calls
me and he says, "I have had it. Your boss acts as if he's
more Polish than I am." I said, "He is. He has two Polish parents. He speaks Polish. You do not," and I thought
I could never have dealt with a second term, ever. >> David M. Rubenstein: Well,
you had those two bosses that didn't get along, but
there was a third person who was your boss, and at that
point, Jimmy Carter was seeking to get the nomination
of the party again, -- >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. >> David M. Rubenstein: --
1980, and Ed Muskie as secretary of state is maybe
flirting with the idea that he might get
the nomination. Wasn't that kind of complicated? >> Madeleine Albright:
No, but the truth is that Ed Muskie wasn't. It's just that you and
the Carter people -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Oh. >> Madeleine Albright: --
were suspicious of that, because the thing that was
very interesting was -- I will never forget. I have to add one
other part to this. I had decided that my job,
going to the White House, they had never taken
Muskie very seriously when I went there initially,
and I wanted everybody to know what a really
loyal, good Democrat, and head of the budget committee and the whole Panama
Canal thing, and I talked him
up an awful lot. So one time, we needed to
have a co-del go to China. >> David M. Rubenstein: Co-del being a congressional
delegation? >> Madeleine Albright: A
congressional delegation to China, and Frank
Moore, who was in charge of the whole congressional
aspect, went along, and Brzezinski asked me to go on
the trip, and so it was great, and Frank got to know Ed Muskie. Anyway, we were then giving a
birthday party for Ed Muskie, and all of a sudden,
Frank says, "Guess what? President Carter's coming
to this birthday party," and I thought only
of myself, which was, "Everybody in the Muskie office
thinks I went to the White House to have a really important job,
and President Carter's going to come in, and he
won't recognize me." So anyway, he does come
in, he does recognize me, and that all went to my head,
and so I said, "Mr. President, can we have a picture of you
and me and Senator Muskie?" He said sure, so
we're standing there, and President Carter
actually said to Ed Muskie, "If Madeleine loves me half
as much as she loves you, I'm glad she's working for me." So then what happens is when
Muskie's announced as secretary of state, we're in the
cabinet room, and I'm sitting in the back, and President
Carter comes over to me, and he said, "Are you pleased?" and I said, "Very
pleased," and I said, "Perhaps you don't
remember where I came from," and he said, "Of course I do. Don't you remember
the birthday party?" But the bottom line was, we
were all in the cabinet room, and Ed Muskie was in the press
room already beginning to talk, and you could see the Carter
people getting slightly nervous about that he had different
skills, and people did think that he was, but I
think he was not -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Wasn't? Okay. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- trying to run. >> David M. Rubenstein: So
we lost the election in 1980. You had to go back and
get a different living. You became a professor
at Georgetown. You got involved with a few
campaigns that didn't make it. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. >> David M. Rubenstein: And
then Bill Clinton gets elected in 1992, and were you
close to Bill Clinton? >> Madeleine Albright: The interesting part was I
didn't know Bill Clinton until, well, he was governor
of Arkansas and he came up to Boston to help prepare
Michael Dukakis for the debates, and we then kind of sat around
for a while, and I discovered about his Georgetown -- he
had been a Georgetown student, and I kind of got to know him. The only campaign I never
worked in was Bill Clinton's, because at that time, I was
also president of the Center for National Policy,
which was a 501(c)(3), and Bill Clinton had his
brain trust, and I didn't, but what happened was, and
this is the story of life, is one of my students,
Nancy Soderbergh, was doing the transition. She put my name in with a
bunch of other names of people that could in fact be
in the administration. I have the memo. He checked my name off,
and then Sandy Berger, who had been a very good friend,
asked me to run the transition for the Clintons with the
National Security Council. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: So I
was the first Clinton person to actually go back to the White
House, and then he asked me to be ambassador to
the United Nations. >> David M. Rubenstein: So you
became the ambassador to the UN. There had been a woman who
had had that position before. >> Madeleine Albright:
Jean Kirkpatrick. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Jean Kirkpatrick, but no woman had ever
been secretary of state. When Clinton is reelected, Warren Christopher
says I'm going to step down as secretary of state. So were you number-one choice? Were you number-two choice? How did you get that position? >> Madeleine Albright: Well,
first of all, one of the things that does happen when you're
ambassador at the UN -- I was a cabinet member as well
as on the principles committee, and I also was on
TV some, and also, President Clinton was fantastic
in terms of the meetings that we had in the Oval
or the cabinet room, and he always was interested
in what I was doing. So all of a sudden, because
Christopher had said he wasn't going to stay, the moment -- -- of the great mentioning went
on, and my name was on a list, and so somebody said well, a
woman couldn't be secretary of state because Arabs
wouldn't deal with a woman, but the Arab ambassadors at
the UN kind of got together and said well, we've
had no problems dealing with Ambassador Albright. We wouldn't have problems
dealing with Secretary Albright. So that went away, and then
somebody at the White House, and I never want to
know who, said yes, Madeleine's on the list,
but she's second-tier, so I truly did not expect it. So what happens is I'm up
in New York on December 5th and I get a call from Erskine
Bowles saying if the president of the United States -- >> David M. Rubenstein:
He was the chief of staff? >> Madeleine Albright:
Chief of staff. He said if the president
of the United States were to call you tomorrow,
would you take the call? >> David M. Rubenstein: Yes. You said what time? >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. Oh, yeah, and then he
said if the president of the United States were
to ask you to be secretary of state, would you say yes? So I obviously said yes. He said well, go
back to Washington. The president will call
you in the morning. So I was so freaked out
that I asked Elaine Shocas, who was my chief of
staff, to stay with me, and then I forgot I was
dealing with President Clinton, that the phone call
wouldn't come early, but I'm sitting there
in my pink bathrobe. You know, no phone
call, no phone call. So finally, around 9:30, quarter
until 10:00, the phone rings, and it's the White House
operator saying hold for the president of the United
States, and then they put on some horrible music, and I was sure he had changed
his mind, but he hadn't. >> David M. Rubenstein: He
hadn't, so you got the job. >> Madeleine Albright: And so
I became secretary of state. >> David M. Rubenstein:
And as secretary of state for four years, what
was the highlight in your view of what you did? >> Madeleine Albright: Well,
first of all, I loved the job. I really and in every way, and
the people that I worked with and every part of it, and I think the highlight was
being able to make a difference in terms of how America used
its power, and one of the issues that we were very,
very concerned with was what was
happening in the Balkans, and the weirdest part of my
life is that I actually -- just to go back, my father
had been ambassador there. I understand Serbian. I had been around all these
places, and all of a sudden, I'm dealing with a
part of the world that I really understood
very deeply, and to tie it to what happened today,
I just saw Senator Dole, and he is also one of the
people, and at that stage, Senator Biden, that
had really cared about what we were
doing in the Balkans. And so when people ask me
what I'm really proudest of, I thought it took us too long to
do Bosnia, but I was secretary when Kosovo happened, and we
were able to make a difference. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: And
I think that being able to understand what the US can
do in cooperation with others -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: --
makes a huge difference. That's why I'm so upset
about the way that this -- and again, to go back
to the funeral today, and I think I do have this in
common with Senator McCain -- is understanding what
this country is about and what our role in the world
can and should be and how in partnership with others, American involvement
can make a difference for most people in the world. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. So in your -- [ Applause ] In your book -- in your book,
you talk about people that, if not fascists, are
totalitarian leaders now. Let's go through some of
them that you've dealt with. Why don't we start
with North Korea? You were, I think, the first
US secretary of state to go to North Korea, and you
met with Kim Jong-Il, -- >> Madeleine Albright: -Il. >> David M. Rubenstein: -- who
was the father of Kim Jong-Un, and what was that
experience like? >> Madeleine Albright:
Well, first of all, let me say that a Korean
problem, it's been going since the end of World War Two, and there is no peace
treaty after that was. I don't know. I think you've been to the demilitarized zone,
and people here have. It's the weirdest
place in the world, on the 38th parallel
dividing the two Koreas, and the Clinton administration,
there were issues about Korea from the very beginning. They were signatories of the
non-proliferation treaty. They were threatening
to pull out. We made a number of different
agreements with them. They didn't live up
to parts of them. We didn't deliver some of the things we were
supposed to quickly enough. So in the summer of 2000,
there began to be an interest. President Clinton had
gotten very interested in what was going on. He'd actually asked former
secretary of defense Bill Perry to do a total review of
our North Korea policy, and Bill Perry had gone there
first and said this is kind of fork-in-the-road time. You can either negotiate or
we will use force against you, because they were threatening
with their ballistic missiles, and they chose the negotiating. So the number-two guy, Vice
Marshall Cho, came over, and we went over
to the Oval Office, and just as what
happened recently, Vice Marshall Cho gave an
invitation to President Clinton to come to North Korea, and
President Clinton said well, maybe at some point, but this
has to be prepared, so I'm going to send the secretary of state. They weren't real
thrilled about that. Because we don't have
an embassy there, I had no idea what was going to
happen, but I ended up having -- and by the way, we had a --
our intelligence was very, very limited on North Korea. We were told that Kim Jong-Il
was crazy and a pervert. He was not crazy. [ Laughter and Applause ] And we were able to have -- and I didn't know what
I was going to do there. So I get there, and all of
a sudden, I get a message -- by the way, you stay in a guest
house that's completely -- they've got cameras, and
they're listening to you, and even if you type on
a computer, they can tell by the strokes what
you're doing. So we're sitting there, and I
get a message that I have to go and pay my respects to his
embalmed father, so I go and I do that, and it's more
complicated than meets the eye, because if you bow too low, then you're criticized
for being obsequious. If you don't bow low enough, you
haven't accomplished anything. So I must have had
the right angle, -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: --
because all of a sudden, we get there, and
I am called to say that the Dear Leader would have
a press conference with me, and I'm standing next to him, and I see that we're the same
height, and I had on high heels and so did he, and his
hair was poofier than mine, but the bottom line is
that we've actually managed to begin discussions -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- about missile limits, and then what happened
was the election of 2000, and Americans were confused
about the election of 2000. Certainly the North
Koreans were. And Colin Powell was prepared
to continue what we were doing, and he got -- there was
a headline in the Post that said Powell to continue
Clinton policies on North Korea. He gets hauled into the
Oval and told no way. And so we've had these
ups and downs with them, and they're dangerous,
and by the way, according to my description
of what fascism is, Kim Jong-Un is a fascist. What he has done is
use violence and force against his own people. He has obviously
disrespected laws or any freedom of the press, and so I am very
worried about where this -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- is going. >> David M. Rubenstein: Let's talk about somebody
else you've dealt with and you write about,
which is Putin. You think he'll be
there for life? >> Madeleine Albright: Well,
he's planned it that way. I think that the issue there
is that -- and again, if I -- one of the things that
I did in the '90s was when I was a professor and it
was the end of the Cold War, I went and I did a survey
across all of Europe about how countries felt after
that, including Russia, Ukraine, and Lithuania, and we had
very detailed questionnaires, but also focus groups. And something I'll never
forget was a focus group that we had outside of
Moscow, and this man stands up and says I'm so embarrassed. We used to be a superpower,
and now we're Bangladesh with missiles, and there
was this kind of sense that they had lost their
identity completely. During the Clinton
administration, we really did try to figure
out how to respect Russia and bring them into the system
a number of different ways, but what happened is that
Putin identified with that man who felt that Russia had
lost its status and all that, and so despite the fact that
their economy is not great, he seems to be maintaining power by in fact raising
this issue again -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- of Russia's greatness. And so the thing that we can't
forget is Putin is a KGB agent, and he has played a weak
hand very, very well, and what he is doing is
systematically working to separate us from our allies,
and part of the story then goes to something I was
talking about in my book -- is the other example
of somebody that is under his influence is Orban,
who is the Hungarian leader, who also has fascist
tendencies and the polls, and so he is trying to separate
us and undermine our democracy and separate us from our allies. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Do you have any doubt that they interfered
with our elections? >> Madeleine Albright: I
have no doubt about it. >> David M. Rubenstein: And do you think they might
be tempted to do it again? >> Madeleine Albright: Yes,
I do, which is why I think that we need to be very
clear about how we deal with all of this and, if I -- -- can say it this
way, separate it as to whether President
Trump was elected or not. I mean the bottom line is the
Russians are doing something here to undermine us. >> David M. Rubenstein: Well, two other people
you write about. I want to cover them quickly
before we get to the conclusion. Erdogan of Turkey -- he's become
what you might call a dictator, a totalitarian dictator. I don't want to put
words in your mouth, but what do you think
about him now? >> Madeleine Albright: Well,
I think the other thing, and I really do think it's
important to go back and look at again the context
of how these kinds of leaders become
authoritarian and dictatorial, and partially is that there are
conditions in these countries that lead to divisions between
the haves and the have-nots, and you either have a leader who
can try to find common ground or a leader who then
exacerbates these divisions. Now what was interesting about
Turkey, and I have always kind of seen myself as a Turkophile,
a fascinating country that is located in an
incredible place -- by the way, I took my
grandchildren there several years ago, and my granddaughter,
who was nine at the time, said I understand Turkey
completely; we spent the night in Europe and had lunch in
Asia, and that is definitely -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- a
very apt description of Turkey. What had happened was
the country had been run by elitists and/or
had military coups. Erdogan had actually the
first time been elected fair and square because he
broadened the constituency so that he was dealing with a
lot of people that had been left out and he delivered
constituent -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- services. I think, you know, something
went to his head in terms of taking overall power, and he
has now, I think, the tendencies which are the kind
that are the -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- chicken-plucking in terms
of really identifying with one group, isolating
himself, and then he also -- the international aspect of
what the Turks are doing is very dangerous. >> David M. Rubenstein:
So you also write about somebody who's
not with us any longer, Chavez, but his successor is. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. >> David M. Rubenstein: How does
Venezuela stay afloat right now, because there's so
many problems there? How come the government
managed to stay in power, and where does all
that oil revenue go? >> Madeleine Albright: Well, I
think one of the things again that has to be looked
at, back at conditions. I went. When we were in office, I'd go to Caracas
fairly frequently. The place was run by a
bunch of tired old men that had absolutely
no relationship with the indigenous peoples
or with the poorer people. What happened was Chavez, who
had attempted a coup earlier and was a charismatic figure,
all of a sudden takes over. He came to the United States. When President Clinton
and I first met with him, he seemed like somebody
that cared about his people. He was going to use
the oil revenue -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- in order to create a
poor people's fund. Then also something
went to his head and he becomes this
authoritarian dictator. I don't know what happened
to the oil revenues. I think that they are --
there's an incredible amount of corruption. Chavez, I think there
was a lot of stealing, and then Maduro now -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- has kind of -- and watching the pictures
now in terms of the numbers of people emigrating and out
into Central America is just -- I mean it's a disaster,
no question. >> David M. Rubenstein: So we
talked about some of the people that might not be,
you know, in your hall of fame for great leaders. Who would you say of
the people you dealt with when you were secretary
of state, UN ambassador, or since then were the most
impressive foreign policy leaders you've ever dealt with? >> Madeleine Albright:
Well, I think that I have to say the Germans have been
very impressive political leaders, certainly Kohl. What was interesting
was I met Angela Merkel when she had just
taken the party over and she seemed very quiet and
meek, and all of a sudden, she's the chancellor,
and I think -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: --
she is very impressive. I very much enjoyed my -- the people that I worked with
were a lot of foreign ministers, and some of them were
truly remarkable, and we -- by the way, I invented
something really modern when I was secretary of state. It was the international
telephone conference call, and so -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: --
during the war in Kosova, every single day, I spoke to
what is known as the quin, the British Robin Cooke, the
Germans' Joschka Fischer, the French Hubert Vedrine,
the Italian Lamberto Dini and I spoke every single
day, and when we left office, all of us, what happened
was that I get a call from Robin Cooke, who was
also out of the government and had just become head
of the European Socialists, and he said Madeleine,
they're saying terrible things about the US; do something, and
then I got another phone call from another former foreign
minister saying you have to do something, and I didn't
have any way of doing that, so I needed a group cover, and so it's under
the auspice of Aspen. We have just met again. Its official name is the
Aspen Ministers Forum. It's unofficial name is
Madeline and her exes, and we have now met -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- 20
times, and they are people that understood how the regional
and multilateral system worked in partnership, and really,
we cared about what was going on in other parts of the
world, and so those are some of the most impressive people -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- I
ever met, and then there's some that really -- you
know, Kim Dae-Jung, who had been the president of South Korea, was
very impressive. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Now you met with -- I wouldn't say impressive
or not impressive. What's your reaction or
relationship was to Arafat? You met with Arafat,
negotiated with him. What was that like? >> Madeleine Albright: Well, I
have to say if I were to look out at this audience,
hey, anybody wants to go to Camp David, you'd
probably say yes. I can tell you after two weeks
in the rain with the Israelis and Palestinians, I don't
care if I ever go back. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: But
I think that Arafat was -- I got to know him very
well, and I won't go through all the stories, but
basically, he was somebody that always saw himself as a
freedom fighter and not anybody that could kind of -- and he
was feted all over the world, and it was certainly more
interesting than worrying about the sewer system in Gaza, and I think that while we came
very close at Camp David to -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- decisions, I thought
he was incapable of making the decision, so. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. So let's talk about your
book the time we have left. In the end of your
book, you're trying to draw these various
strands together. So the lessons that you
want people to take away from all these people
that became fascists or ran their country in an
authoritarian way is what? What is the danger that you're
worried about in your book? >> Madeleine Albright:
Well, first of all, let me just say again to
this that, to just repeat, societies are divided. There's no question. Now they are divided. By the way, I was going to
write this book no matter who had gotten elected,
because I really did see that there were divisions, some caused by technological
revolution and people losing their jobs and
a number of different aspects, and that what was
needed was to figure out how the social
contract really worked. You know, who did -- what
were the responsibilities of the government? What were the responsibilities
of the citizens? And so I felt that what
needed to be done is to explain how we try to find
common ground and not divide up. So the thing that is common
to the fascists or those that have -- by the way,
I don't call an awful lot of people fascists. I say they are authoritarian
dictators with certain tendencies,
and the way to describe fascism is
it's not an ideology. It's a system for taking
over, and the simplest way to describe it, it is when the
leader decides to align himself with -- it's a him, always --
with a tribal group, you know, really this particular
group against the others, so that it is favoritism
of one group and leaving out the others, and
then the thing that actually makes
somebody a fascist is if you use violence
against the people. So it's a bully with an
army, but what are the things that I'm looking at are the
following or what are the steps that lead to this, which
is one, majority rule without minority rights. That is what Viktor Orban
calls illiberal democracy, which is kind of real oxymoron. And so there's that. There is no respect
for any institutions. There is no respect for
the role of the media, which is required
in a democracy. There is no sense about
how the law works. And so I am calling out what
some of the tendencies are, and I think that it's
very important, -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: -- and what the feathers are
that are being plucked, and so I am -- some people
say my book is alarmist. It is supposed to be alarmist,
and so one of the things that I'm doing now is, you know,
we have this thing that we say, see something, say something. I have added do something,
and I think we have to -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright:
-- call out what it is. >> David M. Rubenstein:
All right. So well, let's talk
about doing something. You are a former
secretary of state. What do you do now? Do you teach? Are you writing books? What are you doing at NDI? What is your main
activities now? >> Madeleine Albright:
A little bit of every -- you know, there are
people who think I'm crazy, but the bottom line
is I do things that I think fit together. I do teach. I teach at Georgetown. And I say foreign
policy is just trying to get some country
to do what you want. That's all it is. So what are the tools? So my course is called the
National Security Toolbox. I am chairman of the board of the National Democratic
Institute. That is, you can't
impose democracy. You have to support
it where you can. I do write books. I give speeches. I have a global consulting -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: --
firm, and I try to kind of -- one thing leads to another. I do a variety of task
forces, and I try very hard in everything I do to
do bipartisan activity. I have spent a lot of time with Steve Hadley doing a
big study on the Middle East. We are doing something now
together at the US Institute of Peace in terms of
looking at extremism. So I try to -- one thing informs
another, but my to-do list, and I am doing more and
more on my to-do list -- one is to make very clear
about the importance of respect for our institutional
system and our constitution. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright:
To make clear that nobody is above the law. [ Applause ] >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. That the press is essential,
and then I am saying that people need to
either run for office or support those people
who are, and then something that is actually really
difficult, which is to talk with people that
I disagree with. Now I'm sorry to
say to all of you that are Washingtonians I listen
to right-wing radio as I drive and do a lot of yelling
and hand gestures, and so it may not be
safest to be around me, but the bottom line is I
think we need to understand. I don't like the
word "tolerance." That means put up with. I think we need to respect the
views of those that we disagree with and talk about try to
figure out what it's about. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: And
then every book or speech that I've ever read
quotes Robert Frost, and my favorite quote
is -- "The older I get, the younger are my
teachers" is what he said, and I think we need to get
the young people mobilized, those kids that marched after -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Yeah. >> Madeleine Albright: -- Parkland, so that's
kind of my to-do list. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Well, that's a lot of things. So if you look back on
your incredible career, if you could say the
two final questions. One, what is the difference between the way men
run countries and women run countries? >> Madeleine Albright: Well,
they are not a lot of women that are running countries,
but the bottom line is I think that actually men and women
do have different approaches, I think in terms of I
think women are better at peripheral vision,
because we have to multitask. I think men think kind of
more concentrated deeper. These are generalizations,
but -- and I think that there's
an attempt to kind of find some compromise, that compromise is not
a four-letter word, but I honestly believe this. I don't think the world
should be run only by women, and if you think that,
you've forgotten high school. I think that what is
important is to get men and women working together -- >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay. >> Madeleine Albright: -- and using the various
skills that we have. >> David M. Rubenstein: So
of all the things you've done in your incredible career, what
would you say you're most proud of your achievement,
having done? Is it being secretary of state
and what you did as secretary of state, as a teacher? What would you say you're
most proud of having achieved? >> Madeleine Albright: Well, I have to say obviously my
children and grandchildren. >> David M. Rubenstein:
You have three daughters. >> Madeleine Albright:
I have three daughters and six grandchildren, and
I do think that, you know, we all kid that working hard
is kind of a family trait, so I'm very proud of that, but
I think that what I'm proudest of is that I'm a
grateful American. I describe myself as a grateful
American, and I am proud when I'm able to kind of
be able to work with others to show what America
can and should do. What I regret most of all is
that I never ran for office, and so what I try to do is to
motivate people to do that. I love politics, I love our
system, and I really do think that what I'm best at at the
moment is telling it like it is. I have had a very lucky life. I know you're not
supposed to say that, but I have had a lucky life, and coming to America is
what made all the difference, and I'm a refugee,
and one of the things that I really am proud of
and I love to do is to go and give naturalization
certificates at the ceremonies, and -- >> David M. Rubenstein:
Well, speaking of -- >> Madeleine Albright: --
the first time I did that was on July 4th, 2000 at Monticello,
Thomas Jefferson's home, and I figured since I had
his job, I could do that. >> David M. Rubenstein: Right. >> Madeleine Albright: And so I
gave somebody a naturalization certificate, and I all of a sudden heard this man
say can you believe it? I'm a refugee, and I just got
my naturalization certificate from the secretary of
state, and I went up to him and I said can you believe that
a refugee is secretary of state? And that is what
America is about. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Well put. [ Applause and Cheering ] Well, so thank you very much. Great. >> Madeleine Albright:
Thanks, David. >> David M. Rubenstein:
Can't talk now. Thank you. >> Madeleine Albright: Okay. Thank you! Thank you all. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Madeleine Albright:
Thank you. >> So that's the [inaudible]. >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.
