Lucy Letby The Nurse Who Killed/ BBC One 18/08/2023

now on BBC One after today's guilty verdict a change to the schedule as a special program profiles Lucy leppy the nurse who killed [Music] a nurse has been convicted of murdering babies just beyond your imagination that somebody's on the ward killing babies it's unbelievable [Music] so what to see letby into a serial killer difficult one to work out because she's emotionless there was no empathy or or sympathy with what's gone on at all for the first time we hear from the parents whose baby was murdered human being she's taken everything from us yeah everything the doctor who tried to raise the alarm quite clear that they didn't think appropriate to go to the police at that stage and the friend who stood by her she say that she could have harmed any baby um it's just not in her nature we reveal how Hospital bosses protected Lucy leppy [Music] the reputation of the organization and protecting that reputation was a big factor in how people responded to the concerns raised and how it was the doctors who stopped the murders it's unprecedented it's something which you you would never believe could be possible the potential it could be a serial killer in the local hospital the night the serial killer [Music] foreign [Music] we were actually told we would never have our own children and um I found out I was pregnant and then we found out we were having twins on Valentine's Day wow which is lovely can you remember when you first saw them it was just like Shia Elation and happiness I might have never felt that before or since you remember feeling like a new dad yeah yeah I was very proud [Music] the Twins were born 10 weeks early [Music] they were being cared for at the neonatal unit of the Countess of Chester Hospital [Music] only five days old one of the boys suddenly became unwell [Music] in the cortisol I cooked immediately here crying well it was it felt more than crying [Music] I walked into the room seen it with my boy they had blood around his mouth and and Luke Superstar oh laughing about not really not doing anything you know when it feels like somebody wants to look busy but they're not actually doing anything [Music] Brian um I've never I've never heard anything like it since it was screaming like we're screaming and I was like what what's the matter with them [Music] Lucy said I oh don't worry she has this really calm demeanor about her and she's you know very very softly spoken don't worry the registrar was coming she'd already contacted him he was on his way and she told me to go back to the ward I was trying to reassure my wife that send these people are experts and you know if they say there's not a problem you've got nothing to worry about and that was the first one for quickly followed up by a second phone call with a midwife saying you need to get here now it was a third phone call telling me where are you the priest is being called and I just knew I knew at that point you know you don't call the priest unless someone's dying [Music] we were taken in and we were told to talk to him and hold his hand and then he was christened after the conversation with the consultant and she said you know what we were going to start it's it it's no good you know we've we've we've been working on the minutes it's it's not helping we were absolutely dying your arms rather than being worked on so we said okay when they passed them to us and he died [Music] doctors put the death down to a bowel condition and the premature birth it wasn't considered suspicious so there was no post-mortem examination after your son had died what was Lucy letby doing she asked about I would like her to Bath him important to me so I said yeah so she passed him [Music] and then she dressed him in a little woman gown and gave him back to us and we held him for a little bit longer there had previously been two or three deaths a year the neonatal unit [Music] but something unusual was happening in 2015. the baby's death in August was the fourth that summer another three babies had already died in June a review of the care of all three babies was done and there was nothing in common that we could pin this three deaths on [Music] that the Staffing analysis did identify that Lucy letby was on shift for those three episodes [Music] did that did that were you well I think I can remember um saying oh no it can't be Lucy not nice Lucy [Music] the trial of a nurse who's accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to kill 10 others at a hospital in Chester has heard how a pattern had emerged of babies dying or suffering collapses when she was on duty [Music] oh I can't just talk through what we're doing this morning so the one are interested in Lucy letby has been on trial at Manchester Crown Court since last October accused of killing and harming babies I've been covering the 33 year olds case from the start the only thing that might be a bit of a crunch sort of depends how long the evidence goes on for is is for me to turn around the radio 1300 at the same time as the TV One this is my office for the day outside the court Lucy letby will be a few meters away on the other side of that wall inside being taken from prison van mistakes in this case couldn't be more extreme at both ends of the scale so if she's convicted Lucy letby becomes Britain's most prolific child killer um if she is acquitted then I don't know what's happened here you know it this has been a very very long prosecution involving many years of investigative work and there's a nurse at the middle of it who will have been found to have done nothing wrong vulnerable babies in a hospital no less it's unprecedented it's something which you you would never believe would could be possible the potential it could be a serial killer in the local hospital [Music] a judge has ordered the babies and their families cannot be identified [Music] parents have given statements in court foreign [Music] that our daughter's condition was life-threatening and it didn't even cross my mind that she was in danger of dying [Music] we were just standing there looking as our daughter was dying someone was holding a phone to the doctor's ear then a doctor told them to stop the post-mortem results from the time were interesting one of them identifies the cause of death as damage to the Heart Another one talks about pneumonia with acute lung injury and one simply says cause of death unasscertained none of them talk about harm or murder [Music] I don't recall the first time that I met Lucy letby she started work in 2012. she didn't strike me as too different to most nurses on the unit you didn't have any worries about her doing the job I don't think anybody did it's something that nobody really wants to consider you know that a member of Staff might be harming the babies and your care you see she was respectful Lucy was always very softly spoken and she seemed quite timid and that was her whole demeanor first name terms you're calling her Lucy absolutely she told me about her life we told her about our life she told us well she told me that she was single and she was quite happy being single and just general Chit Chat and things like that [Music] after each of the deaths Lucy letby sent texts to colleagues we lost a little one overnight very unexpected and sad how do such sick babies get through and others just die so suddenly and unexpectedly I think there's an element of Fate involved there's a reason for everything work has been awful I can't talk about it now I can't stop crying I just need to get it out my system [Music] October 2015 a fifth baby died unexpectedly on the unit her mother also gave a statement to the court Lucy letby and another nurse asked me if I wanted to bathe my baby while we were bathing her Lucy came back in she was smiling and kept going on about how she was present at the first bath and how our daughter had loved it I wish she would just stop talking a few weeks later the parents received a sympathy card thinking of you today and always sorry I cannot be there to say goodbye lots of love Lucy doctors couldn't find a medical connection between the deaths but in all five cases Lucy letby was on duty it was the first time I started to have some concerns about the unusual nature of the collapses and the deaths I emailed the unit manager after this death in October and asked to discuss Lucy letby in her association with the deaths we've obtained previously unseen Hospital documents including the response from the unit manager she says it is unfortunate that Lucy letby was on duty [Music] however each cause of death was different and some were poorly prior to their arrival on the unit what do you read from that she was intimating that the fact that Lucy letby was present each time was an unfortunate coincidence she couldn't make that jump to even consider uh that somebody on her unit was was harming babies intentionally [Music] the multiple baby murders at the counters at Chester Hospital were seen crying as she said it's always me when it happens [Music] in Manchester Lucy letby's trial has been giving me months this is the neonatal how long have I got to script over that over well I've got this I've got the sort of Door Shop I've been here most days this is the neonatal unit at the Countess of Chester Hospital where Lucy letby worked it's an odd feeling in the courtroom you know you've got the parents of each baby sitting listening to this this very harrowing evidence and just a few yards away behind the glass of the dock Lucy let me sitting listening she's generally passive no real expression it's really hard to try and read Lucy Levy to tell what she's thinking I'm finding that very hard that court reimaginable now it's such a highly emotional and and charged place to to be in and sitting I feel this whole situation I think she screams it off it schemes enough I think she feeds off other people's pain do you ever look across at her and think it's possible she didn't do it no no [Music] please [Music] can't get over the impression of Lucy letby that you get looking at these social media photos your Sparky full of fun popular she looks like the life and soul of the party in these pictures this is I don't know what Britain's most prolific child killer should look like I'm pretty sure it's not this though foreign this here is Elston school where I first met Lucy and where we became friends dawn has known Lucy letby since Secondary School she's agreed to talk about her friend for the first time [Music] we'd come down walk into town have meals um along this strip and hang out on the cathedral green just here yeah yeah [Music] Hereford is definitely very much home for her Lucy you know has such strong ties to her family here [Music] did Lucy always know she wanted to do nurse yeah it was the only career that I ever remember her saying that she wanted to go and do she had had difficult birth herself and she was very grateful for being alive to the nurses that would have helped save her life um so I feel like everything that she did was geared towards that ultimate goal of becoming a nurse [Music] outside of our group she would present as more shy reserved serious you know level-headed but inside the safety of our group she sort of lets her hair down a bit more and is is Goofy and mixes all laugh very bubbly loves a cocktail you know just the fun of getting dressed up and going out with your friends [Music] after school Lucy lutby studied nursing in Chester and went on to work in the city she bought a house adopted cats rescue cats which were her whole world and went out salsa dancing [Music] she was doing the job that she loved and the job that she's always wanted to do given that can you think of the possibility that she harmed babies it is the most out of character accusation that you could ever put against Lucy you think of your most kind gentle soft friend you know and think that they could they're being accused of harming babies she is the kindest person that I've ever known she would only ever want to help people to say that she could have harmed any baby um it's just not in her nature [Music] the former nurse Beverly Allied has been found guilty of murdering four children who were in her care Lucy letby isn't the first healthcare worker accused of being a serial killer today Dr Harold Frederick Shipman was convicted of murdering 15 of his patients [Music] you know at the end of the day I've worked with so many serial killers in my career and all of them quite liked having the power to be able to decide who would live and who would die because of course that's the ultimate power for God does Lucy let B fit the profile of what you'd say as a healthcare serial killer no she doesn't she is very social she's very socialized um people she has friendship groups she has people in the hospital who um befriended her mentored her um she is somebody that's seen not suspiciously there's no evidence that she's fascinated by serial killers I read the prosecutions opening account of the evidence and I thought is that it and I say that because I kept thinking there would be more clearly it's circumstantial and often murder cases are often solved by circumstantial evidence but there was no smoking gun in the library case it wasn't just five unexpected deaths that were creating suspicion another five babies almost died on the unit in unusual circumstances over the same period Lucy letby was present each time foreign in February 2016 a consultant says he saw her standing and watching when a baby seemed to have stopped breathing [Music] Dr Ravi jayaram got it from the nursing station and walked in and saw that Lucy let me was there and Lucy was not doing anything and the baby who was there who slept at the Courtside the baby was desaturating he asked Lucy let me what was going on at least let me then said oh he's just started he's just started declining now the baby survived the incident there were seven consultant pediatricians working on the unit all of them now thought something was badly wrong [Music] this is the first time the lead consultant has spoken publicly about their concerns [Music] sponsor resuscitation quite how we would expect them to most babies you'd get a heart rate back and they'd start the breathing would get better um but that didn't happen in these cases um like you'd expect which was unusual [Music] the death has also agreed to talk she's now suing the hospital for constructive dismissal I had described to me a horrifying realization on part of the pediatricians one of them said every time I'm you know I'm this is happening to me that I'm being called in for these catastrophic events which were unexpected and unexplained Lucy letby is there and then somebody else said yes I found that and they all realized that the common factor for each of them was lepi's presence on the unit [Music] Dr briery emailed the unit manager again in March 2016 saying we still need to talk about Lucy he'd also asked for an urgent meeting with Hospital bosses it was three months before that meeting took place two deaths for an urgent meeting that's correct yes it was quite surreal because we had these concerns and as a group our concerns were Rising and there's no communication from senior managers in the trust I wasn't there I can't really comment on those events other than to say if that had been raised with me I would have met with them within 24 hours [Music] 16. another three babies almost died unexpectedly whilst Lucy letby was working then towards the end of June she was helping to care for two-day-old triplets one boy died around 6 pm less than 24 hours later his brother was dead too to be clear these babies the triplet babies were in very good health consecutive days [Music] can you remember what went through your mind on those two days it's like disbelief really that it could be happening and a little bit of anger and confusion and a feeling of we really need to do something about this stressed the Consultants were by this point it was a stark illustration of the desperation of Staff who were trying to understand why these events were happening on the unit [Music] after the death of the second Triplet a meeting was held for staff we should let me was there she was sitting next to me and I spoke to her towards the end of the meeting and said how tired and upset she must be after two days of this and I hope that she was going to have a restful weekend and she turned to me and said um now I'm back on shift tomorrow which struck me as being um incredible really the other staff were very traumatized by all of this crumbling before your eyes almost and she was quite happy and confident to come into work on a Saturday [Music] that night Dr briery called a senior Hospital manager he asked her to stop Lucy let be working the manager refused I challenged there I said well are you saying that you're making this decision against the wishes of seven consultant pediatricians and she said yes and I said well if you're making this decision are you taking responsibility for anything that might happen tomorrow to any other of our babies and she said yes and um the phone call stopped shortly afterwards [Music] the following day another baby almost died while Lucy letby was on duty she was finally removed from the neonatal unit three weeks later the suspicious incidents stopped [Music] OCTA has told a court that he felt extremely uncomfortable at the thought of the nurse Lucy letby being alone with a baby girl today we had evidence not just about Lucy Lucy herself Chester hospitalist said to have dealt with doctors concerns on consultant at the trial in Manchester one of the seven Consultants has criticized the hospital in court what today's shown in my mind is that there's no good outcome for the hospital here you know it was consultant Ravi jairam saying he wished he'd just gone straight to the police and hadn't towed the party line that's really Stark what we heard today really laid out the case Beyond just Lucy Lefty but the wider picture of what was going on at that hospital I think the hospital the Senior Management will have some serious questions to answer no matter how everything unfolds as a result of this trial either we have you know someone who's causing deliberate harm on the neonatal unit and concerns were raised and they were not followed up on by by Senior Management or we have uh one a case where the mortality rate at the new native units was Far higher than it should have been unacceptably high and uh not enough was it done to mitigate against that summer of 2016 Lucy letby was moved to administrative duties but there was still no formal investigation into why so many babies had died or come close to death the internal documents we've obtained reveal one consultant asked for the police to be called in a hospital manager replied action is being taken and ordered all emails cease forthwith but the police weren't called we had a number of meetings with Senior Management it was quite clear that they weren't going to budge and they didn't think appropriate to go to the police at that stage [Music] Royal College of Pediatrics and child health to look at what had been going on in the unit in November the college called for the hospital to conduct a thorough external independent review of each unexpected neonatal death but the deaths weren't investigated fully is this a cover-up I don't know how you define a cover-up but um to us the the evidence in front of this was quite clear it felt that we're trying to engineer some sort of narrative away out of this that didn't involve going to the police if you want to call that a cover-up then that's a cover-up there were deaths and near deaths which could not be explained and were unexpected and that just does not happen on an eonatal unit but unfortunately there was a concern about um how it would look so the reputation of the organization and protecting that reputation was a big factor in how people responded to the concerns raised Hospital managers went out of their way to protect Lucy leppy we've discovered they upheld a grievance Sheed brought against the consultants for getting her removed from the unit Tony Chambers concluded the meeting with the statement to us saying that we were to apologize to Lucy letby and a line had been drawn and that we were not to cross that line and if we were to cross the line there would be consequences this document hasn't been made public before either it's a written apology the Consultants were forced to send to Lucy letby it says we would like to apologize for any inappropriate comments we are very sorry for the stress and upset that you have experienced in the last year two Consultants were even ordered to attend mediation sessions to make the peace with Lucy letby the doctors didn't back down two months after the apology the hospital asked the police to investigate but only after the Consultants pushed them to their huge credit they made the collective decision that they would stay and see this through and I am full of admiration for that courage so even after the meeting when they were told that we'll draw a line under this or there'll be consequences they still persisted in saying yes but we still have questions that haven't been answered and we still feel that the police are the right people to discuss this with [Music] I think it's the it's the case that if you refused it there would never have never heard of a police investigation I'm sure yeah that was the intention of the executives was to somehow close this case [Music] Tony Chambers later resigned as chief executive he told us what he said to the Consultants had been taken out of context and that prompt action was taken after he was first told of serious concerns in June 2016 including reviews of deaths he said all his thoughts are with the children at the heart of this case and their families he's truly sorry for what all the families have gone through and that he would cooperate fully with any post-trial inquiry three weeks after being told about the baby deaths Cheshire police launched an investigation in May 2017 operation hummingbird it's really hard to believe that anybody would be harming tiny babies and that was the general feeling at that point and it wasn't until we got further on in the investigation where we'd established that a crime had occurred that really the size of this investigation and what we were about to embark on really kind of hit home for people one case convinced the police there was a killer in the hospital it involved the family with twins whose son died back in August 2015. 24 hours later his twin brother also became very unwell one of the nurses he's not he's not well his heart rate is really really high was your first thought this happened again thought it was happening again and I said some Horsemen please not again we can't do this again this this can't be happening it's almost bang on 24 hours since since our other son had died this this just can't be happening and so I went and um I sat with him all night his heart rate was absolutely through the roof you know it didn't come down and I was just like just calm down you know and I'm almost trying to to win the machine you know this heart rate up bring his heart rate down make it okay [Music] this time the Medics managed to save her baby but the parents say he was badly harmed by the trauma [Music] he's got to be a lot of difficulties it's got a lot of complex needs is it your belief that that's connected yes what happened yes directly as a consequence there's a consequence and he's living with it team Dr briery was reviewing the baby's notes for the police he found evidence the infant had been poisoned a blood test showed the baby had high levels of insulin it had been missed by a junior doctor it was the first sight I had of this result and um it made me feel sick actually thinking about it it's a baby case in front of me in which it was quite clear that this baby had been poisoned by insulin and the nursing record supported the fact that Lucile Epi was present on shift at the time [Music] the body produces insulin naturally when it does it also produces a substance called C peptide most medical experts agree if there's hardly any c-peptide then the insulin cannot be natural if you measure very high levels of insulin with very low levels of c-peptide then it can only be the case that the insulin was not made by the body so that's would be objective evidence that there has been that somehow insulin has been administered to this baby it wasn't produced by the baby and it can't have happened accidentally no this would not happen accidentally the review of patient records suggested a second baby had also been poisoned with insulin The crucial evidence had been missed for more than two years it looked like a baby killer had been left on the unit was this a significant missed opportunity that when those lab results weren't really flagged at the time do you think that was a missed opportunity yes yes um in an Ideal World you'd hope that the lab would flag it so it would be reviewed by somebody senior um that didn't happen it's been said there's no smoking gun in the Lucy lutby trial but these insulin cases get close to it do they for you they were a Smoking Gun for these babies for sure and I don't have any doubt that at least let me um harm these babies cases we're a real milestone in the investigation we were shocked really to the core to find that a baby had been injected with insulin it's another layer of surprise I suppose as to the depth that Lucy Lappy went to the other cases were less straightforward but evidence from medical experts indicated all the babies had been harmed intentionally a couple of the cases the prosecution say this is by poisoning with insulin in a couple of the cases it's by force feeding these children milk in several of these cases it's through injecting the child with with air air bubbles that's you know it can cause great harm to you know even adults but to fundable babies you know it's it's a life-threatening situation for them foreign [Music] suggests there was a killer on the unit but how do we know it was Lucy letby [Music] this prosecution document shows which nurses were on duty when babies collapsed or died some were only present on one or two shifts some were there on six or seven [Music] but Lucy letby was always there she was working on the unit during every single one of the 25 suspicious incidents please oh yes yeah thank you in 2018 Lucy letby was arrested for the first time oh right okay and we woke up at six o'clock in the morning to our phone and it was the family liaison tellers are arrested somebody on suspicion of murder the healthcare worker and he came and he had a conversation and he said to add Lucy lapby absolute shock a door moose in my own mind but like oh so we don't know and it's someone in the background who's done this awful thing um never in a million years did I think it'd be someone that we we felt we had a connection with the shock of that shock of that was just a real unreal Lucy letby is clearly the person who keeps things she kept obviously medical records she kept Handover sheets she kept electronic devices and photographs so she kept Diaries very detailed Diaries and notes which surprised me because Lucy letby would have been aware that we were going to come and speak to her at some point [Music] the police found Lucy letby had been searching for information online about the parents of some of the dead babies in one case on the anniversary of their baby's death [Music] they also discovered a note inside her diary it says I haven't done anything wrong It also says I killed them [Music] but you see it says I I killed them I'm not good enough I'm evil I did this well it seems like a confession but it might be she's saying that it is alleged I killed them it is alleged I am evil I did this do you know I worked on a number of murder cases whereby you get people writing strange notes all the time that's evidence of their perhaps being underlying stress mental health problems it's not necessarily evidence of guilt I just think this is the ramblings of somebody who's under extreme psychological pressure [Music] circumstantial evidence against her but neither the police nor the prosecution have offered a motive and no one has ever seen Lucy let be harming a child Lucy was arrested and released on bail and then she was arrested again and at that point I think the police had spent three years trying to build a case to find someone culpable to find someone to blame did you question at that point if it could be something she was capable of course it run it goes through your mind for an instant where you think what do the police know that I don't know but in that instant it's gone in a second because it's replaced by I know Lucy I've grown up with Lucy you've spent time interviewing her what do you make of her she's a difficult one to work out because she's emotionless she was just very clinical in her answers so she was comfortable she'd go through medical notes she would talk to us she was cooperative she engaged but there was no empathy or or sympathy with what's gone on at all he told me did you have any concerns that there was yes okay so tell me about that what concerns did you have if we don't just notice the team in general this was [Music] a nurse accused of murdering seven babies has been giving evidence at her trial [Music] morning busy day I've got quite a few calls to make in Manchester the defense case has started and Lucy letby is giving evidence there was complete silencing Court as Lucy letby spoke in a clear voice looking directly at the jury and sitting just yards away from the parents of some of the babies She's accused of attacking this is the day I've been waiting for for months because we've had all of these accusations laid out in court and today is the moment where we get to see her and hear her directly you know she's going through the the detail of the medical notes and she's being asked about that quite closely and she's dealing with those questions in a very assured way she comes across as a bit mousy a bit a bit normal you can't possibly marry that with the enormity of what she's being accused of [Music] Lucy letby says she was always on duty as she was willing to do extra shifts and was trained to care for the sickest babies and that staff shortages and poor maintenance had left the unit unsafe but after seven days in the witness box the pressure is starting to show started to cry she's getting to her we had a break this morning we weren't supposed to have another one until lunchtime and then and then she asked for one she said I need a break and you can you can tell that she's getting stressed [Music] from the start she's told her friends not to attend court been in contact through writing letters but she's not been able to have any updates about all of her God children because she's not allowed to be told about any information pertaining to children have all of Lucy's friends stood by her yes we know she couldn't have done anything that She's accused of so without a doubt we stand by her I've grown up with Lucy and not a single thing that I've ever seen or witnessed of Lucy would you know let me for a moment believe that she was capable of the things she was being accused of you seem utterly unshakable on this but isn't it possible she's he's fooled you all unless Lucy turned around and said I'm guilty I will never believe that she's guilty have you ever thought that there could be some other explanation for all of this and that Lucy lutby has innocent well that was the journey we went on in the first year before we finally asked it to be removed from the neonatal unit that was a year of looking for all those alternative explanations and we excluded all those things until we got down to one point which was was Lucy letby I wanted to be a locked up but I didn't have a one just to come out again because what she's done to change the course of our life forever this is a hateful human being she's taking everything from us absolutely everything [Music] jurors in the murder trial of Hereford nurse Lucy letby have retired to consider their verdicts as let B denies murdering seven babies and attempting to kill 10 others we can feel the tension here every day no one knows if this will be the day when the jury returns its verdict the trial has been running for 10 months it's five and a half weeks since the jury was sent out now they've reached their verdict she's guilty the jury is found Lucy let be guilty of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder another six they found a not guilty of two attempted murder charges and were undecided on another six of those but they've clearly found that she's one of Britain's most notorious killers I cannot begin to imagine how the families in this case feel today I just hope that today's verdicts bring all of them some peace of mind for the future and that we have answered some of the questions that they were looking for and there's a statement from the hospital I speak for the whole trust when I say how deeply saddened and appalled we are at Lucy leppy's crimes we are extremely sorry that these crimes were committed at our Hospital and our thoughts continue to be with all the families and loved ones of the babies who came to harm or who died we cannot begin to understand what they have been through [Music] the jury was only asked to consider seven murder charges we've discovered that 13 babies died during Lucy letby's last year on the neonatal unit she was on duty for every one of them the police investigation is going wider still babies died while Lucy letby was training at Liverpool Women's Hospital are you looking at other cases yes I'm sure the public would expect us to to look at the entire footprint of Lucy leppy's career all the way through Lucy's placements at Chester and at the Liverpool Women's Hospital and could that result in in further charges down the line possibly we have informed a number of parents already that we're investigating their child and they're being supported [Music] the Countess of Chester Hospital is Under New Management [Music] the unit no longer cares for such sick babies and there's only been one death in seven years can expectant mothers coming into the unit have confidence I I think those parents can expect um as higher level of care on our unit than any other unit in the country It's upsetting this we've got through um particularly hard time and I think we owe it to the families um for them to know that the staff care Lucy leppy now faces years in prison for harming babies in her care but why did she do it what turned a likable fun-loving nurse into a serial killer I don't think we know why why we celebrity has done this and that's really difficult to take um I can't imagine how a parent must feel [Music] it's just beyond your imagination that somebody's on the ward killing babies it's unbelievable she had everything going for it [Music] I know it's like killer babies [Music] I think it's something that we'll never know and I think there's a family we need to make our piece with that [Music]

Channel: Gavin Martin

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Id: yo13E3YwvBg

Length: 58min 54sec (3534 seconds)

Published: Fri Aug 18 2023